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View Full Version : What do you think holds most players back ?


Matt90
11-25-2012, 05:10 PM
Time ? Discipline ? Work /Career ? Family ? or do they get to a comfort level and get ok with staying there ? Just curious what has held others back from getting to where they want to be as a player.I know with me I had to make my career a priority and am building up a new business,I just don't have the time I would like to play and give my all to my work .It's a choice I made and I am ok with it .

ChrisBanks
11-25-2012, 05:14 PM
As a river diverts in many directions, the strength of the current in each direction diminishes.

And so it is with the river of your mind. Diverge it in many areas, and none of them will be as strong.

peteypooldude
11-25-2012, 05:14 PM
Confidence IMO is the biggest obstacle a player will ever have to deal with

iusedtoberich
11-25-2012, 05:16 PM
Natural ability.

Matt90
11-25-2012, 05:17 PM
As a river diverts in many directions, the strength of the current in each direction diminishes.

And so it is with the river of your mind. Diverge it in many areas, and none of them will be as strong.

I really like that !! I've heard alot of good quotes over the years ,that's a new top ten .

dr9ball
11-25-2012, 05:18 PM
Time to devote to pool devoid of other distractions. That's it for me. At this point in my life, I am unwilling to stay in a smokey pool room from 7pm till 1 or 2 am. I play everyday but rarely over an hour per day. Like many, long ago I made the decision to focus on career and family. For me it was the right choice. I still enjoy pool but on my terms.

Maniac
11-25-2012, 05:23 PM
Time ? Discipline ? Work /Career ? Family ? or do they get to a comfort level and get ok with staying there ? Just curious what has held others back from getting to where they want to be as a player.I know with me I had to make my career a priority and am building up a new business,I just don't have the time I would like to play and give my all to my work .It's a choice I made and I am ok with it .

Matt, I suspect that YOUR reason is probably very high-up on the list. Top tier poolplaying is a young persons sport. Problem is, most young people do not have the financial resources to NOT work. Rent, food, transportation, and many times family responsibilities keep a young person working and therefore not getting the needed time it takes to acquire the abilities of the top tier players.

Maniac

mantis99
11-25-2012, 05:25 PM
Time And other priorities mainly. Besides that their general overall talent level.

justadub
11-25-2012, 05:27 PM
Most everyone has touched upon it, in one way or another...most of us have responsibilities in life, job, family, etc...

For anyone to really excel, they will need as much time available to play and practice as possible. For any of us, at any level.

scsuxci
11-25-2012, 05:30 PM
I really like that !! I've heard alot of good quotes over the years ,that's a new top ten .I agree,its a cross
between Ghandi and David Suzuki.:smile:

I think when a person starts a family,pool gets put on the back burner.
If your a pro and doing it for a living,thats a different story.

ChrisBanks
11-25-2012, 05:33 PM
I really like that !! I've heard alot of good quotes over the years ,that's a new top ten .

I've tried to provide something that is memorable. The metaphor of a river is quite easy for the mind to recall! Whereas you are unlikely to remember the reference book style responses.

bbb
11-25-2012, 05:42 PM
Natural ability.

and time to develop and practice
and the desire to do so
a mentor
knowledge is power

in the end
you cant get a silk purse from a cows ear
jmho
icbw

measureman
11-25-2012, 05:48 PM
Natural ability.

There it is.
I've been watching pool players for over 50 years and sooner or later most of them reach a certain level and stay there.
It's the same with all other sports or games.
There are always exceptions to this but for most this is the way it is.

ChrisBanks
11-25-2012, 05:52 PM
There it is.
I've been watching pool players for over 50 years and sooner or later most of them reach a certain level and stay there.
It's the same with all other sports or games.
There are always exceptions to this but for most this is the way it is.

Woud you then say that those with the most natural ability can afford to practice less than others? They are naturals at the game, so they have no need for hourly practice. Is this the premise you agree with?

Tramp Steamer
11-25-2012, 06:00 PM
In my own mind, at least, I think had I reached for the golden ring, I could have been one of the world's best poolplayers. Instead I chose the other passion in my life, selling funnel cakes at county fairs.
Oh, I know, living the glamorous life of a professional pool player would have been the choice of almost anyone with half a brain, but nothing can quite compare to a hot and dirty midway, and the aroma of human sweat and funnel cakes. Fried in lard with a sprinkle of sugar on top. Who can resist them. :smile:

ChrisBanks
11-25-2012, 06:02 PM
In my own mind, at least, I think had I reached for the golden ring, I could have been one of the world's best poolplayers. Instead I chose the other passion in my life, selling funnel cakes at county fairs.
Oh, I know, living the glamorous life of a professional pool player would have been the choice of almost anyone with half a brain, but nothing can quite compare to a hot and dirty midway, and the aroma of human sweat and funnel cakes. Fried in lard with a sprinkle of sugar on top. Who can resist them. :smile:

As a youth, I would spend my last dollar on those carnival treats. The fried dough especially. Now, I have no taste for such things. And why not haul a pool table around with the carnival and offer odds on this and that, and such and such a shot?

iusedtoberich
11-25-2012, 06:03 PM
The arguments about practice, and family, and money, and health in smokey rooms, etc, don't affect a teenager for the most part. Most of us diehards, no matter what level we ended up at, spent all of our waking teen hours in a pool hall, gambling our brains out, motivated to the highest level to best our peers. Yet, after 5 to 10 years in the same room, amongst the same players, some turned out to be open players, some stayed at a high C, and some were inbetween. My opinion is that boils down to natural ability.

Sh!t, I played softball for 10 years in a local neighborhood league. Everyone was accepted, no need to try out. I went to every game, had the same coaches, went to all the practices, felt the pressure, same as every other kid. I went every year from grade school age where we played T-ball, to I think 16 when they cut off the age limit. Amongst the 100 or so kids in this league, some were good, some sucked, some were in the middle. Again, my opinion is its natural ability. Especially when looking at kids with sports... they don't have any distractions, and all want to be a baseball star some day.

BryanB
11-25-2012, 06:04 PM
The time to practice is likely the biggest one. Work and family take priority

The extra money to practice
Someone to teach them. Could also fall under not enough money to pay for lessons

dopop62
11-25-2012, 06:18 PM
All things mentioned thus far are applicable to our not reaching the success in pool that we desired. Paul "Bear" Bryant said: "It's not the
will to win that matters...everyone has that. It's the will to prepare
to win that matters." Looking back, I now see where I could have
practiced more and tried to think a little more before shooting a shot.
I didn't. And I settled for mediocrity.

Lock N Load
11-25-2012, 07:05 PM
In my own mind, at least, I think had I reached for the golden ring, I could have been one of the world's best poolplayers. Instead I chose the other passion in my life, selling funnel cakes at county fairs.
Oh, I know, living the glamorous life of a professional pool player would have been the choice of almost anyone with half a brain, but nothing can quite compare to a hot and dirty midway, and the aroma of human sweat and funnel cakes. Fried in lard with a sprinkle of sugar on top. Who can resist them. :smile:

Hey Tramp,
Do you use a pool table to sell your funnel cakes on? Just wondering.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

ENGLISH!
11-25-2012, 07:09 PM
It could be many things as has already been stated, but maybe we need to define what is meant by 'holds most players back'.

If true desire is there, I would think that the only thing that could hold one back would be ones self or a flat out lack of sufficient talent to gain the ability.

Now as to desire, that can be changed by many things as has also already been stated.

I can't remember where I heard it said or even who said it, but I can hear it, 'I just don't want it any more'. When one says that, it's all over, unless it's a Rocky sequel & Adrian says, 'WIN'.

Maybe that's the knid of Movie the game needs to helps it image.

Just my $0.02.

Lock N Load
11-25-2012, 07:12 PM
Time ? Discipline ? Work /Career ? Family ? or do they get to a comfort level and get ok with staying there ? Just curious what has held others back from getting to where they want to be as a player.I know with me I had to make my career a priority and am building up a new business,I just don't have the time I would like to play and give my all to my work .It's a choice I made and I am ok with it .

You come to a crossroad and you have to figure out the right way to go or the wrong way. At that point in your life you wont realize you took the wrong way, until you no longer have a wife and family left. Then you wake up! And when the job is gone you really feel the crunch.

But, you can always start all over again and make the right choice, pool or job and family.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

pt109
11-25-2012, 07:41 PM
I think the biggest thing that makes a player is DESIRE to hit a shot well.
Some players get more of a thrill than others....and they can also choke
more than a player that doesn't care as much.

If you've never felt like THIS kid
https://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D9-nXT8lSnPQ&rct=j&sa=X&ei=W9OyUM2ZGebLyAHl8oGIBw&ved=0CDsQuAIwAQ&q=tiananmen+square+tank+man&usg=AFQjCNHQro_DWhCV_OX7F54h8p4JNIOmKA
on a crucial shot, you'll never play as well as you are capable of.
You get out of the game what you put into it....
...if you don't care too much for the game and don't try hard enough...
...your lack of passion will be justly rewarded.

regards
double hemlock

ENGLISH!
11-25-2012, 07:51 PM
To Double Hemlock's post above...Double Ditto & 3 Taps!

Best Regards,

JoeyA
11-25-2012, 08:04 PM
There are many things that hold us back both in pool and in life.

Sloth is at the top of the list, imo.

pt109
11-25-2012, 08:13 PM
There are many things that hold us back both in pool and in life.

Sloth is at the top of the list, imo.

I think all sloths should be put on the clock.....
...or be given a hand...
https://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGuDVM23OrPs&rct=j&sa=X&ei=kN2yULukM_LiyAHN3YCQAg&ved=0CEAQuAIwAg&q=sloth+the+slowest+animal+on+earth&usg=AFQjCNH08KRUUP3ilYXwjDkXtxSuv6W5VQ

JoeyA
11-25-2012, 08:25 PM
I think all sloths should be put on the clock.....
...or be given a hand...
https://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGuDVM23OrPs&rct=j&sa=X&ei=kN2yULukM_LiyAHN3YCQAg&ved=0CEAQuAIwAg&q=sloth+the+slowest+animal+on+earth&usg=AFQjCNH08KRUUP3ilYXwjDkXtxSuv6W5VQ

Yeah, some Sloths are slower than others. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ljtB11I78)

crawfish
11-25-2012, 08:45 PM
Yeah, some Sloths are slower than others. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ljtB11I78)

People like JoeyA beating on you continuously. It just plain out takes it's toll on you. Kills your desire to even play. That damn JoeyA.

Steve Dickey
11-25-2012, 08:49 PM
You can only serve one master.

alstl
11-25-2012, 08:51 PM
What holds me back is I'm not good enough at pool.

LHP5
11-25-2012, 09:01 PM
I think Robin Dodson and Jay Helfert on a stream of POVPOOL once said something along the lines of pool is just a game. You can be the greatest player that ever lived, but at the end of the day it's just a game. You have to worry about the more important things in life and come back to pool when you can. Don't make it the priority.

pt109
11-25-2012, 09:06 PM
Yeah, some Sloths are slower than others. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ljtB11I78)

Forget the clock, Joey....
.....gonna put you on a sundial.....:smile:

Matt90
11-25-2012, 10:19 PM
There are many things that hold us back both in pool and in life.

Sloth is at the top of the list, imo.

Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

Joey ,
If we are going as deep as the 7 deadlies here ,let me shed some light on that .Being to prideful and having false belief in your abilities could cause one to slack up and not practice aka sloth.From personal experience I can tell you sloth is tough to overcome..... I found out that if I have passion for what I am doing the sloth all but disapears. Pride however has left many a pool player broke and busted.

rayjay
11-25-2012, 10:22 PM
As a river diverts in many directions, the strength of the current in each direction diminishes.

And so it is with the river of your mind. Diverge it in many areas, and none of them will be as strong.

Very nicely stated.

As so many have stated in several different ways, I agree that it's all about money and the ability to make a decent living. Some have different priorities and diffenent levels of drive to be great than others, but there are so many that get sidetracked by having to make a living elsewhere, or elsehow, because they can't do it in pool. It's sad, really, that it's just a part-time hobby for lots of potential greats.

I don't know how much $$$ the top 100 players make gambling...not much elsewhere but probably not enough, as even the top 5 have a tough time in tourneys and cups and such. Look at the $$$ in the top 100 in darts, or fishing, or beach volleyballorgolfortennisororor... Same 'ol stuff, advertising and tv revenue isn't there.

ENGLISH!
11-25-2012, 10:59 PM
Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

The above is why whenever I find myself enjoying the way I'm playing too much I remind myself & others that I'm just holding the cue for Him & tommorrow it could all be gone. I try to enjoy it just enough while He allows me to play just well enough to make it enjoyable.

Best Wishes,

backplaying
11-26-2012, 01:04 AM
There it is.
I've been watching pool players for over 50 years and sooner or later most of them reach a certain level and stay there.
It's the same with all other sports or games.
There are always exceptions to this but for most this is the way it is.

I have played many games in my life, golf, tennis, pool, shooting, fishing, cards and I have noticed everyone has a peak level they reach. If a person has been playing on a regular basis for over five years, chances are they are playing at their top speed. There are exceptions, but this is what I have noticed in the last 40 years. Natural talent is number one in determining the level everyone will reach in all games. I would put dedication number two, and pool would have to be your number one priority to reach a top level. I don't think it wise for anyone to pick pool as your top priority though.

naji
11-26-2012, 05:03 AM
Time ? Discipline ? Work /Career ? Family ? or do they get to a comfort level and get ok with staying there ? Just curious what has held others back from getting to where they want to be as a player.I know with me I had to make my career a priority and am building up a new business,I just don't have the time I would like to play and give my all to my work .It's a choice I made and I am ok with it .

Man interesting question, i liked Matt 90 answer,


Maybe the biggest factor is that there is no future in pool, money wise like Golf or other sports, if pool players do that much traveling for a job other than pool they would be paid at least $150k easy, so we take a step back to look after our $$$$$, there goes half if not all your practice time

Significant other and kids will rob your playing time

Private work (your own business) take all your play time, family time, friends time until you are able to depend on someone to run it for you

Pick one of the above to give up for pool sake, provided you still have good health and eye sight, i am sure it is not easy!!!!

naji
11-26-2012, 05:46 AM
I have played many games in my life, golf, tennis, pool, shooting, fishing, cards and I have noticed everyone has a peak level they reach. If a person has been playing on a regular basis for over five years, chances are they are playing at their top speed. There are exceptions, but this is what I have noticed in the last 40 years. Natural talent is number one in determining the level everyone will reach in all games. I would put dedication number two, and pool would have to be your number one priority to reach a top level. I don't think it wise for anyone to pick pool as your top priority though.

Natural talent is defined as God given talent that cannot be achieved easily by practice, such as good voice, beauty, character, and some.

Pool playing does not need any of the above, and excellence is achieved through hard work, practice, and acquiring good solid knowledge as well as advanced knowledge, so as golf, and many other sports.
Look around, there are close to thousands of pro players are all got natural talent?
Take a good example, Lance Armstrong, everyone though he had gifted heart! it turns out to be he is doping the hell out of himself to win.

JoeyA
11-26-2012, 06:23 AM
Forget the clock, Joey....
.....gonna put you on a sundial.....:smile:

It is only a little embarassing. :D I really hadn't realized just how much time had passed.

This was the hill-hill game against Robb Saez at CueSports about a year ago. It's a bar table and there are very few balls left on the table. If I miss the object ball, miscue, jump the cue or object ball off the table or scratch, it's really over. There were no safeties that I could conceive. I had practiced this type of shot after watching Joe Villapondo's video for kicking. (www.pooliq.net) I really wanted to hit this ball without scratching and was hoping to actually make the ball. The table had a slight lean to it and you couldn't hit any shot very softly or the cue ball would roll off. After practicing probably over two hundred kicks similar to this one (on the 9 foot tables), I thought I knew where the cue ball would go but I just kept counting the diamonds over and over. Then, I would say to myself, "but I may be able to hit the object ball by doing this or what about this?" The possibilities just kept racing around in my head and I kept coming back to "Do what you have the most confidence in" and that's when I settled in and gave 100% to the shot and pulled the trigger. After hitting the object ball, Robb had an almost straight in shot but he couldn't afford to hit the cueball softly so he put a little mustard on it and missed the object ball, leaving me an easy runout.

JoeyA
11-26-2012, 06:40 AM
Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

Joey ,
If we are going as deep as the 7 deadlies here ,let me shed some light on that .Being to prideful and having false belief in your abilities could cause one to slack up and not practice aka sloth.From personal experience I can tell you sloth is tough to overcome..... I found out that if I have passion for what I am doing the sloth all but disapears. Pride however has left many a pool player broke and busted.

Matt,
I'm not sure pride has much to do with holding one back from pool. All you have to do is put yourself in harm's way (playing in tournaments or gambling with better players) on a regular basis and it will soon become apparent just where you are located on the food chain. If you are constantly saying that the reason that you keep losing is because your opponent got the rolls, or you were just plain unlucky either on the break or you got sharked, or you weren't feeling well or you were nervous, or you didn't hit your high gear or you didn't hit your average gear (you get the idea), then that is just plain stupidity.

When I play against better players, it is a measuring stick for me. The arse whippings humble me and teach me to work on my imperfections of the game, not to make excuses to cover my hurt pride and I believe that it is the same for most players.

Those who think they play better than they really do are far less in numbers than those who just don't want to put in the work.

I hate to say it but I believe that those who think they play better than they really do are not prideful as much as they are delusional.

If you want to make a change, you have to take a look in the mirror. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEQAie8ABLE)

Matt90
11-26-2012, 08:59 AM
Well Joey, I am glad that works for you .If I could change myself I would have already of been over to Marietta Billiards and beat up on that tall skinny fella playing 10 ball on the front table. Self reliance is good as far as it goes but it will only go so far .Time takes time.Any real change that last comes from within and is motivated by pain or pleasure. I get alot more pleasure from seeing my business grow today than I do shooting at the big boys on the table.When the pain of not winning becomes great enough , I see alot of players make a change from that point.
Many a man has looked in that "mirror" of change and tucked tail and ran .I have had to make alot of changes in my life ,why did I not run ? If I had to guess I would say faith ,Each man has to find his own .I have probably read more books on change and self help than alot of people you know and I can tell you this from all that .All I can change is a light bulb.Again real change that last comes from within and no matter how you slice it ,is a process .
Pride would have me to think I could change the world and even my own self . I can't go for that .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6buJGU7wiBg&feature=related

JoeyA
11-26-2012, 10:52 AM
Well Joey, I am glad that works for you .If I could change myself I would have already of been over to Marietta Billiards and beat up on that tall skinny fella playing 10 ball on the front table. Self reliance is good as far as it goes but it will only go so far .Time takes time.Any real change that last comes from within and is motivated by pain or pleasure. I get alot more pleasure from seeing my business grow today than I do shooting at the big boys on the table.When the pain of not winning becomes great enough , I see alot of players make a change from that point.
Many a man has looked in that "mirror" of change and tucked tail and ran .I have had to make alot of changes in my life ,why did I not run ? If I had to guess I would say faith ,Each man has to find his own .I have probably read more books on change and self help than alot of people you know and I can tell you this from all that .All I can change is a light bulb.Again real change that last comes from within and no matter how you slice it ,is a process .
Pride would have me to think I could change the world and even my own self . I can't go for that .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6buJGU7wiBg&feature=related

You are making the changes you want in your life and you are on the right track. :cool:

Don't get side tracked with any desire to become the next Johnny Archer.

Donny Lutz
11-26-2012, 11:54 AM
Time ? Discipline ? Work /Career ? Family ? or do they get to a comfort level and get ok with staying there ? Just curious what has held others back from getting to where they want to be as a player.I know with me I had to make my career a priority and am building up a new business,I just don't have the time I would like to play and give my all to my work .It's a choice I made and I am ok with it .

Some of the "reasons" mentioned on this thread sound a bit like excuses.

In my opinion, the number one reason why players don't "succeed" at pool is the pride, stubbornness and lack of common sense that prevents players from seeking personal instruction...

dardusm
11-26-2012, 12:10 PM
Natural talent is defined as God given talent that cannot be achieved easily by practice, such as good voice, beauty, character, and some.


Pool playing does not need any of the above, and excellence is achieved through hard work, practice, and acquiring good solid knowledge as well as advanced knowledge, so as golf, and many other sports.
Look around, there are close to thousands of pro players are all got natural talent?
Take a good example, Lance Armstrong, everyone though he had gifted heart! it turns out to be he is doping the hell out of himself to win.

Good Answer!

This type of question will pop up on AZ from time to time. Read the book Talent is Overrated by Geoffrey Colvin. The basis of the book is that almost any type of activity, a person can become expert level with 10,000 hours of deliberate practice. It's not so much talent but the desire to get better. The key is deliberate practice.

http://www.thedanplan.com/ is a website about a 30 year old man that decided to test this theory of 10,000 by trying to become a professional golfer. It's pretty interesting. He picked golf because he couldn't beat his girlfriend, as of Oct he has 3400 hours of deliberate practice and his handicap is 5.8.

Banks
11-26-2012, 12:35 PM
Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

Joey ,
If we are going as deep as the 7 deadlies here ,let me shed some light on that .Being to prideful and having false belief in your abilities could cause one to slack up and not practice aka sloth.From personal experience I can tell you sloth is tough to overcome..... I found out that if I have passion for what I am doing the sloth all but disapears. Pride however has left many a pool player broke and busted.

That's what I see as the primary problem for most. Time and money come and go and people will give their hobbies what they can. What they can't seem to do at times, though, is accept reality.

There's not a player on here that hasn't heard the excuses of "the table beat me", "I'm not playing my game", "you got lucky", "the rails are bad" and on and on and on. What that says to me, is that the person refuses to accept responsibility and therefor will have a much harder time learning from anything they do(right or wrong).

If you actually pay attention to what's happening without the bias of pride/vanity, you can learn a lot.

Some people have a natural aptitude for some things, but pride can be a tough pill to swallow for anybody that has potential.

Cornerman
11-26-2012, 01:05 PM
Instead I chose the other passion in my life, selling funnel cakes at county fairs.

If this were true, I'd think you would have switch over to Fried Dough rather quickly.

After all, Fried Dough aka Elephant Ears aka Doughboys are the snooker of the vat fat carny cuisine

Freddie <~~~ or am I backwards on this???

Cornerman
11-26-2012, 01:17 PM
Time ? Discipline ? Work /Career ? Family ? or do they get to a comfort level and get ok with staying there ? Just curious what has held others back from getting to where they want to be as a player.I know with me I had to make my career a priority and am building up a new business,I just don't have the time I would like to play and give my all to my work .It's a choice I made and I am ok with it .

Four things are needed to become a pro at anything. Some people like to conveniently package them into alliteration of some sort like: Desire, Dedication, Discipline and Determination.

I'd go with the non-alliteration of time, natural ability, and a serious case of sports-minded OCD.

I think a failing in any of the three holds any player back at any sport.

Freddie <~~~ lather, rinse, repeat

Cornerman
11-26-2012, 01:18 PM
Disagree completely. The mind is strengthened in all areas by strengthening it in others.

That is why stupid people don't do anything and people who don't do anything are stupid.

DaVinci painted, sculpted, philosophized, advised, was athletic and invented.

Einstein played violin and changed the world in many ways.

I got better at pool by playing competitive foosball.

dld

Ditto.

Freddie <~~~ barroom foosball partners champion

pt109
11-26-2012, 01:24 PM
Disagree completely. The mind is strengthened in all areas by strengthening it in others.

That is why stupid people don't do anything and people who don't do anything are stupid.

DaVinci painted, sculpted, philosophized, advised, was athletic and invented.

Einstein played violin and changed the world in many ways.

I got better at pool by playing competitive foosball.

dld

Funny you should mention this, DD.
I took up backgammon and it helped my decision making immensely.
..and playing poker doesn't hurt you game-making either.:cool:

tom mcgonagle
11-26-2012, 01:42 PM
I was asked many times why I didn't join the professional ranks as a full time player. I had the game needed to compete at that level.

What I also had, was a good job, and a family.

To give all of this up wasn't in my best interest. That's what I would probably be sacrificing if I went and played as a professional.

Don't be fooled by this game. There just isn't enough to go around to justify playing it professionally. If your maybe, top five in the world, you can survive. Other than that, your gonna struggle.

What I did was play the game as a way to supplement my income.

I know this isn't exactly the question asked.

In my opinion, "There just isn't enough incentive to play this game at the highest level. Therefore it's hard to mentally make that commitment."

_______________________________________

http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com

Okie
11-26-2012, 01:50 PM
Time ? Discipline ? Work /Career ? Family ? or do they get to a comfort level and get ok with staying there ? Just curious what has held others back from getting to where they want to be as a player.I know with me I had to make my career a priority and am building up a new business,I just don't have the time I would like to play and give my all to my work .It's a choice I made and I am ok with it .

There is only one thing that holds a person back.

Themselves.

Ken

Island Drive
11-26-2012, 04:01 PM
Time ? Discipline ? Work /Career ? Family ? or do they get to a comfort level and get ok with staying there ? Just curious what has held others back from getting to where they want to be as a player.I know with me I had to make my career a priority and am building up a new business,I just don't have the time I would like to play and give my all to my work .It's a choice I made and I am ok with it .

The Realities of life is how it appears to me....

luke
11-26-2012, 04:49 PM
Eyesight and attitude.

Celtic
11-26-2012, 04:53 PM
Natural ability.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Celtic
11-26-2012, 05:03 PM
Natural talent is defined as God given talent that cannot be achieved easily by practice, such as good voice, beauty, character, and some.

Semantics.

Call it natural aptitude.

I know everyone likes to dream that if they had put in the effort and time that they all could have been Johnny Archer, it is simply not the reality though, most people never had a chance. People who truly excel at a sport and get to that top 0.00001% of the people who partake in that sport have a natural aptitude towards that sport that most other people do not have.

Does anyone out there think that every guy in the NBA could be Michael Jordan if they just worked harder at the game? Of course not.

AI Cincy
11-26-2012, 08:08 PM
Excuse making. The same people who will tell you they work too much to play great pool spend all their free time on the couch or in a bar. The majority of people can find the time if they want to enough, so the problem becomes desire. I gaurentee if someone put a gun to your head and said you play shortstop speed in 5 years or your whole family dies youd be hitting balls every second of free time you had and sleeping 4 hours a night for extra time.

Everyone will say "ohh but im just so tired after work." Well take better care of yourself and get over it. If you want something enough youll do it, whether it means cutting back on sleep or that 6 pack and practicing regardless of how you feel.

RADAR
11-26-2012, 08:59 PM
Natural ability period. Take a look at the worlds best players all were great from a very young age!

ChrisBanks
11-26-2012, 09:07 PM
Natural ability period. Take a look at the worlds best players all were great from a very young age!

Ask the world's greatest players how much they had to practice when they were young, and how much they practice now. And perhaps you will derive a true answer!

sjm
11-26-2012, 09:27 PM
I think a big part of the answer is that most players are unwilling to practice alone. No matter how much one plays, competition must be supplemented by focused solo practice if one hopes to develop a complete and dependable skill set.

naji
11-26-2012, 09:27 PM
Natural ability period. Take a look at the worlds best players all were great from a very young age!

Please define natural ability ? what is it in your opinion required to have that natural ability other than have nothing in life but pool, sleeping on pool tables, eating in pool halls, no social life, no jobs, no money, on the road all the time, is that natural ability?

crawfish
11-26-2012, 09:29 PM
Ditto.

Freddie <~~~ barroom foosball partners champion

Ditto. Tiddlywinks, you ALL got me.

naji
11-26-2012, 09:31 PM
Semantics.

Call it natural aptitude.

I know everyone likes to dream that if they had put in the effort and time that they all could have been Johnny Archer, it is simply not the reality though, most people never had a chance. People who truly excel at a sport and get to that top 0.00001% of the people who partake in that sport have a natural aptitude towards that sport that most other people do not have.

Does anyone out there think that every guy in the NBA could be Michael Jordan if they just worked harder at the game? Of course not.

Yes Again, height is God given gift, Mike at 6'-6" and Lebron James is at 6'-8" and is very much needed in basketball. I think Lebron is better than Mike..
What is the special ability you need in pool to be good other than 100% dedication to the game, of course healthy body, and eye sight.

crawfish
11-26-2012, 09:41 PM
Please define natural ability ? what is it in your opinion required to have that natural ability other than have nothing in life but pool, sleeping on pool tables, eating in pool halls, no social life, no jobs, no money, on the road all the time, is that natural ability?

Why so bitter? Sounds a little envious to me. I am college educated, fairly successful by common standards, and no more fun have I had than times on the road. Story....

Tony Watson is playing a doctor in Charlotte, giving him the last five. T is nutting him. He proceeds to proclaim how T has nothing compared to him. T 's answer?

"*****, I am 1500 up. I am gonna go check into a hotel, call a new chick, get ****ed up, and then **** her crazy. Then, I'm gonna sleep til 3. Then, gonna come back here and do it all over. You are gonna go home to that big mortgage, **** the same ol' ass, if she says yes, and then get up early for work. Now, you want the last six?!"


Take that!

AI Cincy
11-26-2012, 10:01 PM
Why so bitter? Sounds a little envious to me. I am college educated, fairly successful by common standards, and no more fun have I had than times on the road. Story....

Tony Watson is playing a doctor in Charlotte, giving him the last five. T is nutting him. He proceeds to proclaim how T has nothing compared to him. T 's answer?

"*****, I am 1500 up. I am gonna go check into a hotel, call a new chick, get ****ed up, and then **** her crazy. Then, I'm gonna sleep til 3. Then, gonna come back here and do it all over. You are gonna go home to that big mortgage, **** the same ol' ass, if she says yes, and then get up early for work. Now, you want the last six?!"


Take that!

Tony Watson is my new favorite player.

crawfish
11-26-2012, 10:03 PM
Tony Watson is my new favorite player.

I love that little ****er

ENGLISH!
11-26-2012, 10:09 PM
Yes Again, height is God given gift, Mike at 6'-6" and Lebron James is at 6'-8" and is very much needed in basketball. I think Lebron is better than Mike..
What is the special ability you need in pool to be good other than 100% dedication to the game, of course healthy body, and eye sight.

Mr. Naji,

Some people have a natural ability to do things & that includes confidence in themselves that they can do whatever it is.

Others do not have the 'natural' ability to do things & therefore lack confidence in themselves. Some of these people can do the same things that the ones with the natural ability can, but it takes them working at it to develope the skill to do those things & then practice to garner a level of success that builds confidence in themselves.

In the end, when you match them up, I'll bet on the one with 'heart'.
'Heart' too, can be a gift or it can be aquired.

There are those with natural ability that fail & never make it. No heart.

There are those with little to no natural ability & succeed beyond compare, they are called 'Gamers'. 'Heart' in ship loads.

The world's history is filled with people of natural ability that failed & also filled with over achievers on a grand scale.

It's simply not black or white. Natural talent or faiure.

The human body, brain, mind & 'heart' are simply amazing.

Dreams, determination & a host of intangibles can yield amazing results.

When Earl Strickland was 16 years old he practiced 16 hours a day & slept 8 everyday. Is he a natural talent or a 16 year old boy who simply knew what he wanted & grabbed it by the tail?:wink:

Best Regards,

Montana Mike
11-27-2012, 01:47 AM
You still need guidance and resources. You could have a lot of natural ability, a full plate of the D's previously mentioned and work at the game all you want but I don't think you can shorten the learning curve fast enough unless you have the right mentor[s] and the money to allow your development.

The mentor can really help guide a players development, shield them from some of the more cut-throat practices at many poolrooms, and teach them how to be successfull. The money obviously will afford the developing player practice time, self-confidence, and be able to play in the types of gambling games needed to improve more rapidly.

Lock N Load
11-27-2012, 06:56 AM
You still need guidance and resources. You could have a lot of natural ability, a full plate of the D's previously mentioned and work at the game all you want but I don't think you can shorten the learning curve fast enough unless you have the right mentor[s] and the money to allow your development.

The mentor can really help guide a players development, shield them from some of the more cut-throat practices at many poolrooms, and teach them how to be successfull. The money obviously will afford the developing player practice time, self-confidence, and be able to play in the types of gambling games needed to improve more rapidly.

What he said!!!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

Pushout
11-27-2012, 07:22 AM
What he said!!!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

I'm with that, also. I think it's very probable that Earl and Tony Watson were both born with talent and driven to get better on their own personal levels from what I've heard of both of them. I've read posts here recently saying there are some great players who never took a lesson. That's true but most of those players still watched other good players and learned from watching and experimenting with what they saw. I've seen other posts by people claiming to be their own best teachers but their posts also show just how much they don't know. I think most players have mentors of some sort or people that they strive to emulate.

Celtic
11-27-2012, 07:41 AM
There are two players in Calgary I know that shoot more then anyone else in the city. They are good but there are alot of players who are alot better who never put even close to the same amount of time into the game. Dedication might close the gap between a person with natural talent and one with dedication, but the guy who has both is the only one with a chance to be truly great.

CreeDo
11-27-2012, 07:51 AM
Complacency. Everyone has a comfort level, and some sort of mental concept of how good they want to play (better than the average guy, better than their buddies, maybe better than anyone else in the pool room).

Once they reach that point, they're comfortable and almost nothing will dig them out of that 'comfort trench'.

Before that point, most people can find the time. After that point, it's "well, it's been fun boys but I got work in the morning" or "yeah, my woman's been on my case, I'm staying in" or "I used to go out and practice alone but now I just get bored".

JoeyA
11-27-2012, 09:42 AM
Complacency. Everyone has a comfort level, and some sort of mental concept of how good they want to play (better than the average guy, better than their buddies, maybe better than anyone else in the pool room).

Once they reach that point, they're comfortable and almost nothing will dig them out of that 'comfort trench'.

Before that point, most people can find the time. After that point, it's "well, it's been fun boys but I got work in the morning" or "yeah, my woman's been on my case, I'm staying in" or "I used to go out and practice alone but now I just get bored".

Now this I agree with but as to your previous post....not quite so much.

I've never dreamed of being another Johnny Archer (I doubt many others have) and there aren't many people in the NBA that worked as hard at their game as Michael Jordan worked at his game.

ENGLISH!
11-27-2012, 10:10 AM
Michael Jordon was cut from his high school team. I'm just saying.

backplaying
11-27-2012, 10:25 AM
Why so bitter? Sounds a little envious to me. I am college educated, fairly successful by common standards, and no more fun have I had than times on the road. Story....

Tony Watson is playing a doctor in Charlotte, giving him the last five. T is nutting him. He proceeds to proclaim how T has nothing compared to him. T 's answer?

"*****, I am 1500 up. I am gonna go check into a hotel, call a new chick, get ****ed up, and then **** her crazy. Then, I'm gonna sleep til 3. Then, gonna come back here and do it all over. You are gonna go home to that big mortgage, **** the same ol' ass, if she says yes, and then get up early for work. Now, you want the last six?!"


Take that!

Now that was funny!

Cornerman
11-27-2012, 11:42 AM
Michael Jordon was cut from his high school team. I'm just saying.

You ARE just saying.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/16/a-myth-debunked-was-michael-jordan-really-cut-from-his-high-school-team/

Freddie <~~~ keeping the foot blocked

Okie
11-27-2012, 11:47 AM
You ARE just saying.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/16/a-myth-debunked-was-michael-jordan-really-cut-from-his-high-school-team/

Freddie <~~~ keeping the foot blocked

/sarcasm

You have single handedly crushed the dreams of millions of children! You insensitive clod!

Ken

./sarcasm

Cornerman
11-27-2012, 11:56 AM
/sarcasm

You have single handedly crushed the dreams of millions of children! You insensitive clod!

Ken

./sarcasm

It's a gift.
--------------

ENGLISH!
11-27-2012, 12:07 PM
If he tried out for the team & did not make the team, then he was cut. One can 'spin' it any way one wants. Michael himself says he was cut. The coach picked at least two(2) probably more guards than Jordon. If the coach thought he could have helped the team win, believe me he would not have cut him, he would have found a place for him on that team. Who knows, Jordon could have gotten mad & left that school for another one. I don't think the coach would have risked that if he truly thought he was ready for his varsity team.

He was cut & relegated to the junior squad. There are many 15 year olds playing on varsity squads all over the country.

Just my $0.02

Regards,

JoeyA
11-27-2012, 03:09 PM
You ARE just saying.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/16/a-myth-debunked-was-michael-jordan-really-cut-from-his-high-school-team/

Freddie <~~~ keeping the foot blocked

You Cad!!!!!!

ENGLISH!
11-27-2012, 03:45 PM
------------------------------

TATE
11-27-2012, 04:04 PM
Time ? Discipline ? Work /Career ? Family ? or do they get to a comfort level and get ok with staying there ? Just curious what has held others back from getting to where they want to be as a player.I know with me I had to make my career a priority and am building up a new business,I just don't have the time I would like to play and give my all to my work .It's a choice I made and I am ok with it .

I don't think most players would have a chance at the pro level if they devoted 100% of their time to the game for 20 years. Even if they had the nerves of steel necessary to play near perfect competitive pool, their talent would plateau at a level somewhat lower than professional.

For the select few who do have the talent and the nerves, there is no incentive to work hard enough at it to play pro pool. For those who attempt it, the talent is like a curse - their lives might just fly by without the financial equivalent of a profession.

PoolPunisher
11-27-2012, 08:13 PM
Definitely doubt in their shot, worry that if they miss the opponent will run it, or they will mess up terribly. That's how I got my pool name "Punisher" every time I got a ball in hand, I'd run it. So, they called it a punishment of mistake.

predator
11-28-2012, 02:41 AM
For certain, with enough dedication and practice, most players could improve quite a lot. Would that be enough to make it as a pro? Absolutely not.

I look at it this way. Are you among worlds top 1000 performers at your daily job? Chances are you are certainly not, and maybe the number is much greater, some additional zeroes spring to mind if we're being honest. But you still get paid.

Most daily jobs don't require of you to be better at it than virtually all of the worlds population. Professional sports do in fact require just that and then some more. Pool is no exception. That's why it is very very unlikely for anyone to actually become a pro, even for very gifted individuals who practice a lot. There's extremely small amount of room at the top of the pyramid.

Maniac
11-28-2012, 07:20 AM
Most daily jobs don't require of you to be better at it than virtually all of the worlds population. Professional sports do in fact require just that and then some more. Pool is no exception. That's why it is very very unlikely for anyone to actually become a pro, even for very gifted individuals who practice a lot. There's extremely small amount of room at the top of the pyramid.

This is true. It is why we have the term "shortstop" speed.

"Many are called, but few are chosen".

Maniac (hasn't been called nor chosen :sorry:)

naji
11-28-2012, 01:11 PM
For certain, with enough dedication and practice, most players could improve quite a lot. Would that be enough to make it as a pro? Absolutely not.

I look at it this way. Are you among worlds top 1000 performers at your daily job? Chances are you are certainly not, and maybe the number is much greater, some additional zeroes spring to mind if we're being honest. But you still get paid.

Most daily jobs don't require of you to be better at it than virtually all of the worlds population. Professional sports do in fact require just that and then some more. Pool is no exception. That's why it is very very unlikely for anyone to actually become a pro, even for very gifted individuals who practice a lot. There's extremely small amount of room at the top of the pyramid.

Predator, not sure why you are saying this, and new pro players are increasing everyday. Did you watch the last Japan 10 ball tourney, at least 20 or 30 players i never heard of before, and managed to capture or beat existing pros.
With the right high advance knowledge of pool, any A level will reach pro level with high level of practice. Look at Branden Shuff, he is beating all pro players now, he was not a pro three or four years ago, he was strong player.
If you said the reason is players that want to be pro players but work full time cannot reach pro level i can swallow that.

predator
11-28-2012, 01:52 PM
Predator, not sure why you are saying this, and new pro players are increasing everyday. Did you watch the last Japan 10 ball tourney, at least 20 or 30 players i never heard of before, and managed to capture or beat existing pros.
With the right high advance knowledge of pool, any A level will reach pro level with high level of practice. Look at Branden Shuff, he is beating all pro players now, he was not a pro three or four years ago, he was strong player.
If you said the reason is players that want to be pro players but work full time cannot reach pro level i can swallow that.

naji, I said that reaching a pro level of play, good enough to make a living, is very unlikely for most players, but not entirely impossible. There are always exceptions. As for Japan 10ball...just because you don't know a name doesn't mean a guy necessarily plays amateur level pool. I admit that I know only about 10 names or so from let's say Taiwan and China...but they must have hundreds of players who play super high level.

And I really have no idea what "A" player or "strong" player means. That kind of labeling is highly subjective. Are they class or two below top professionals, or local pool room heroes?

daveb
11-28-2012, 06:17 PM
Some people's pit of ego and insecurity is not bottomless and eventually becomes full.

Island Drive
11-28-2012, 06:53 PM
Common sense....

naji
11-28-2012, 07:04 PM
naji, I said that reaching a pro level of play, good enough to make a living, is very unlikely for most players, but not entirely impossible. There are always exceptions. As for Japan 10ball...just because you don't know a name doesn't mean a guy necessarily plays amateur level pool. I admit that I know only about 10 names or so from let's say Taiwan and China...but they must have hundreds of players who play super high level.

And I really have no idea what "A" player or "strong" player means. That kind of labeling is highly subjective. Are they class or two below top professionals, or local pool room heroes?

What you saying in this post make sense and i agree, but what you said in earlier post i quote: "That's why it is very very unlikely for anyone to actually become a pro, even for very gifted individuals who practice a lot. There's extremely small amount of room at the top of the pyramid"
what did you mean by above statement in red?

What i know is A++++ is pro, A+++, A++, A+, and A all these can pot 99.99% of balls, i think the higher the rank the better position play , kicking, banking with pro is master in all. Obviously luck is a factor in pool, so an A could beat a pro in a short race.

predator
11-29-2012, 01:50 AM
What you saying in this post make sense and i agree, but what you said in earlier post i quote: "That's why it is very very unlikely for anyone to actually become a pro, even for very gifted individuals who practice a lot. There's extremely small amount of room at the top of the pyramid"
what did you mean by above statement in red?


It is simple really. There are literally millions of players playing this game around the world seriously, perhaps thousands very gifted who practice so much you have to scrape them off the table. But you don't have thousands recognizable pro names nor you don't have thousands good enough for Mosconi Cup...etc...the list goes on.

It's like that in any sport. Only very few selected individuals can be at the very top. You have many many more mediocre players that great ones. And then you have hundreds of times more bad players than mediocre ones. See the pyramid shape now?
Of course, even if you already play excellent pool, jumping levels is still possible even if much more difficult, and one should never ever give up trying. Because you never know, you just might be one of those freaks who excel against all odds...besides, improving your game is fun at any level.

I know pool is somewhat special because a high level amateur player can on his best day beat Archer in a tournament. But so what? That is possible only because one hour or even two hours of 9/10ball match isn't long and there's plenty of luck involved.

CJ Wiley
11-29-2012, 02:04 AM
As a river diverts in many directions, the strength of the current in each direction diminishes.

And so it is with the river of your mind. Diverge it in many areas, and none of them will be as strong.

That's a very fitting quote.

From my experience most players that "never get any better" suffer from trying to make the game more complicated by dividing the "River of the Game" in many directions.

One thing I recommend is to take EVERYTHING you know about pool and try to condense it down to 2 or 3 thoughts that "sum it all up," so you can free yourself up mentally to reach a higher level. If you have trouble doing this then seek out ways to simplify your pre shot routine and approach to the Game in general.

Not being able to improve and develop as a player is usually a result of "mental bondage," brought on be believing the game is tougher than it acually is. The Game at the championship level is much more simple than at the amateur level. There's far LESS negative choices.

The key that unlocks those chains are usually in doing "something" that you know will help, but your mind resists doing. The action of taking control of your game, life and ego is a deciding factor in success or lack of.

CJ Wiley www.cjwileybilliards.com

naji
11-29-2012, 06:52 AM
It is simple really. There are literally millions of players playing this game around the world seriously, perhaps thousands very gifted who practice so much you have to scrape them off the table. But you don't have thousands recognizable pro names nor you don't have thousands good enough for Mosconi Cup...etc...the list goes on.

It's like that in any sport. Only very few selected individuals can be at the very top. You have many many more mediocre players that great ones. And then you have hundreds of times more bad players than mediocre ones. See the pyramid shape now?
Of course, even if you already play excellent pool, jumping levels is still possible even if much more difficult, and one should never ever give up trying. Because you never know, you just might be one of those freaks who excel against all odds...besides, improving your game is fun at any level.

I know pool is somewhat special because a high level amateur player can on his best day beat Archer in a tournament. But so what? That is possible only because one hour or even two hours of 9/10ball match isn't long and there's plenty of luck involved.

Pool unlike other sports, it has lots of advance knowledge steps intertwined with each other that makes it hard to pin point exactly what cause you to miss a shot, i call them secrets of the game, Unless you have time at your own leisure at home to discover it all, you will never be consistent.
But please let's agree not to use the word gifted again, because i associate gifted with gifts from God such as beautiful voice gift, beauty; very tall body say for basketball, and maybe high IQ, of which you need none in pool game to be a pro, all you need is time, lots of it, of which i agree not many people have and that is the only reason why they will not be at pro level, provided they have good health in general.

3andstop
11-29-2012, 07:16 AM
As a river diverts in many directions, the strength of the current in each direction diminishes.

And so it is with the river of your mind. Diverge it in many areas, and none of them will be as strong.


This is very true ... and its even worse when you get older and the river starts to dry up!

Maniac
11-29-2012, 08:00 AM
This is very true ... and its even worse when you get older and the river starts to dry up!

That ain't all that dries up ;)!!! :embarrassed2:

Maniac

Lock N Load
11-29-2012, 10:06 AM
That's a very fitting quote.

From my experience most players that "never get any better" suffer from trying to make the game more complicated by dividing the "River of the Game" in many directions.

One thing I recommend is to take EVERYTHING you know about pool and try to condense it down to 2 or 3 thoughts that "sum it all up," so you can free yourself up mentally to reach a higher level. If you have trouble doing this then seek out ways to simplify your pre shot routine and approach to the Game in general.

Not being able to improve and develop as a player is usually a result of "mental bondage," brought on be believing the game is tougher than it acually is. The Game at the championship level is much more simple than at the amateur level. There's far LESS negative choices.

The key that unlocks those chains are usually in doing "something" that you know will help, but your mind resists doing. The action of taking control of your game, life and ego is a deciding factor in success or lack of.

CJ Wiley www.cjwileybilliards.com

Hello Mr. CJ,
I like your post. It says it all.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

naji
11-29-2012, 10:16 AM
That's a very fitting quote.

From my experience most players that "never get any better" suffer from trying to make the game more complicated by dividing the "River of the Game" in many directions.

One thing I recommend is to take EVERYTHING you know about pool and try to condense it down to 2 or 3 thoughts that "sum it all up," so you can free yourself up mentally to reach a higher level. If you have trouble doing this then seek out ways to simplify your pre shot routine and approach to the Game in general.

Not being able to improve and develop as a player is usually a result of "mental bondage," brought on be believing the game is tougher than it acually is. The Game at the championship level is much more simple than at the amateur level. There's far LESS negative choices.

The key that unlocks those chains are usually in doing "something" that you know will help, but your mind resists doing. The action of taking control of your game, life and ego is a deciding factor in success or lack of.

CJ Wiley www.cjwileybilliards.com

Hi CJ i think you should distinguish between advanced level players, and say B, C, or D players. Those starting players will have to spend time to work on the basics and many steps of pool to get to the 2 or 3 thoughts process.

ENGLISH!
11-29-2012, 10:29 AM
Hi CJ i think you should distinguish between advanced level players, and say B, C, or D players. Those starting players will have to spend time to work on the basics and many steps of pool to get to the 2 or 3 thoughts process.

Mr. Naji,

I'm curious. Do you or did you ever play others sports & if so which one(s)?

Best Regards,

naji
11-29-2012, 10:44 AM
Mr. Naji,

I'm curious. Do you or did you ever play others sports & if so which one(s)?

Best Regards,

I am close to a pro level in Foosball (baby foot), also i played good table tennis but never continued with it. May i ask why are you asking?

Okie
11-29-2012, 10:47 AM
Hi CJ i think you should distinguish between advanced level players, and say B, C, or D players. Those starting players will have to spend time to work on the basics and many steps of pool to get to the 2 or 3 thoughts process.

I think you are missing the most important part of Mr. Wiley's post.

Simplicity is the key.

There is genius in simplicity!

Ken

BasementDweller
11-29-2012, 11:02 AM
I think there are two main things that hold players back.

First, accepting the idea that there is a ceiling to how well you can play. I accepted this idea early on and while it wasn't something I was always conscious of, it was a thought that was always somewhere in the back of my mind. So when I would run into shots that would give me trouble on the practice table I wouldn't attack them with the same determination that I do now. Instead, I would just sort of think to myself, well I guess I'm just not capable of making that shot consistently. I now believe with all my heart that had I picked up this game at an earlier age I could have been as good as anybody.

Secondly, figuring out the right things to be practicing on is so very important. For me personally, I've found that since I only have a limited amount of time to practice I focus all most all of my time working on my cueing and the one thing that I try to avoid as much as possible is wasting my time shooting easy shots. One thing that I constantly find myself shaking my head at is people that do drills that do not challenge their shot making ability AT ALL.

For instance, the wagon wheel drill was mentioned in either this thread or another current thread here on AZ. Pocketing the ball in this drill is so easy; to me it's a complete waste of time. I know lots of people disagree with me on this, but I always make sure that I am testing my potting ability on all drills. One interesting thing that I like to do is play the 9 ball ghost, but before each shot I'll move the cue ball further away from the object ball (keeping the same angle).

Switching my focus from cue ball control over to ball pocketing and just solid cueing over the course of the past couple of years has improved my game (or at least my ability) so much that I almost can't believe it. Now you may not agree with my findings on drills, and shot making, and cue ball control and all that, but you will probably agree that unlocking the secret to proper practice is a crucial part of getting better at this game. We all have to figure this out for ourselves and really it's probably the most rewarding part of the game. Well, at least for me it has been.

ENGLISH!
11-29-2012, 11:14 AM
I am close to a pro level in Foosball (baby foot), also i played good table tennis but never continued with it. May i ask why are you asking?

I was asking because in many other sports there is no real time for much thinking once the play starts. It is mostly reactionary. Now I'm not saying that one does not think in other sports. I'm just saying that when the ball is moving you have to react & your mind can not be full of thoughts that do not directly apply to the task at hand. Block that Foosbal shot. Return that table tennis slam just sent your way. When you are practicing you can think of different techniques & moves, but when you are playing it is time to play & not think about the techniques.

Pool, golf, bowling etc. are sports where YOU put the ball into motion & there is no defensive opponent to what you do with the ball. Your arsenal of what you can do with the ball can be huge. However, you can only shoot one at a time.

I think what CJ is saying, & I totally understand, is that if you shoot a 9mm hand gun every day & become proficient with it from say 40 feet away why would you need a high powered rifle from 30 feet away. Now when a shot does come up from say 100 yards away the high powered rifle is certainly more appropriate & if you have practiced with it say once a week you should be able to shoot that 100 yard shot when needed.

However, if you shoot with a different weapon everyday, are you truely proficient with any one of them or... are you just very good at all of them.

I believe, CJ is saying become proficient with one shot & you will rarely need any other shot, but when you do need another, by all means shoot it.

Just my take on it.

Best Regards,

naji
11-29-2012, 11:43 AM
I think there are two main things that hold players back.

First, accepting the idea that there is a ceiling to how well you can play. I accepted this idea early on and while it wasn't something I was always conscious of, it was a thought that was always somewhere in the back of my mind. So when I would run into shots that would give me trouble on the practice table I wouldn't attack them with the same determination that I do now. Instead, I would just sort of think to myself, well I guess I'm just not capable of making that shot consistently. I now believe with all my heart that had I picked up this game at an earlier age I could have been as good as anybody.

Secondly, figuring out the right things to be practicing on is so very important. For me personally, I've found that since I only have a limited amount of time to practice I focus all most all of my time working on my cueing and the one thing that I try to avoid as much as possible is wasting my time shooting easy shots. One thing that I constantly find myself shaking my head at is people that do drills that do not challenge their shot making ability AT ALL.

For instance, the wagon wheel drill was mentioned in either this thread or another current thread here on AZ. Pocketing the ball in this drill is so easy; to me it's a complete waste of time. I know lots of people disagree with me on this, but I always make sure that I am testing my potting ability on all drills. One interesting thing that I like to do is play the 9 ball ghost, but before each shot I'll move the cue ball further away from the object ball (keeping the same angle).

Switching my focus from cue ball control over to ball pocketing and just solid cueing over the course of the past couple of years has improved my game (or at least my ability) so much that I almost can't believe it. Now you may not agree with my findings on drills, and shot making, and cue ball control and all that, but you will probably agree that unlocking the secret to proper practice is a crucial part of getting better at this game. We all have to figure this out for ourselves and really it's probably the most rewarding part of the game. Well, at least for me it has been.

Like i said earlier, very advanced players have different practice needs than B, C, and D players.
I agree with you 100% on how to practice and i posted a while back, you must practice potting, and i suggested set up one long shot say spot shot and shoot that every day same exact way, say 1st week no english, just role CB, what you will find out some days you miss some days you will make all attempts; this will help you narrow down the reason you miss and eventually know why you miss and adjust, will help to write notes for every day. Once that test is done move on with fast speed, then with english and so on until you reach the 4000 shots varieties

Main reason for not reaching higher level is You i quote "accepting the idea that there is a ceiling to how well you can play", also you mentioned you have limited time.

You are dead wrong about having to start young to be good; all you need a good instructor to shorten your agony and enlighten the way for you to speed the learning process and learn all secrets.

naji
11-29-2012, 12:10 PM
I was asking because in many other sports there is no real time for much thinking once the play starts. It is mostly reactionary. Now I'm not saying that one does not think in other sports. I'm just saying that when the ball is moving you have to react & your mind can not be full of thoughts that do not directly apply to the task at hand. Block that Foosbal shot. Return that table tennis slam just sent your way. When you are practicing you can think of different techniques & moves, but when you are playing it is time to play & not think about the techniques.

Ok easy shots close to pocket a diamond or two between OB & CB close to straight not big deal, but as aim errors narrows like up table OB, or near rail shot, or you need apply english, or swerve issue, throw, squirt if you do not think there will be high probability you will miss, or make the shot. But for superior accuracy and high consistency one has to take his/her time an think of all possibilities that could go wrong. Unfortunately we pay rent for a 9x4.5 foot table and balls do spread to the far side especially one pocket game.

Pool, golf, bowling etc. are sports where YOU put the ball into motion & there is no defensive opponent to what you do with the ball. Your arsenal of what you can do with the ball can be huge. However, you can only shoot one at a time.

I find pool has much more error possibilities of making a ball than any other game, with aim complication it makes it even harder. Golf and bowling aim errors a bit forgiving when you are at the T

I think what CJ is saying, & I totally understand, is that if you shoot a 9mm hand gun every day & become proficient with it from say 40 feet away why would you need a high powered rifle from 30 feet away. Now when a shot does come up from say 100 yards away the high powered rifle is certainly more appropriate & if you have practiced with it say once a week you should be able to shoot that 100 yard shot when needed.

However, if you shoot with a different weapon everyday, are you truely proficient with any one of them or... are you just very good at all of them.

Sure i am proficient with all 4000 shots any kind of english, speed, stun, angles, english far away, close you name it, do i miss due to new cloth, dirty spot, humidity sure, and of course due to bad stroke. All it takes is learn it systematically like i did, it becomes natural after a while

I believe, CJ is saying become proficient with one shot & you will rarely need any other shot, but when you do need another, by all means shoot it.
How can you shoot a different shot with all kind of possible english without learning it and put hours into it


Just my take on it.

Best Regards,

Thanks Rick, below are items you mentioned in your post:

BasementDweller
11-29-2012, 12:25 PM
Like i said earlier, very advanced players have different practice needs than B, C, and D players.
I agree with you 100% on how to practice and i posted a while back, you must practice potting, and i suggested set up one long shot say spot shot and shoot that every day same exact way, say 1st week no english, just role CB, what you will find out some days you miss some days you will make all attempts; this will help you narrow down the reason you miss and eventually know why you miss and adjust, will help to write notes for every day. Once that test is done move on with fast speed, then with english and so on until you reach the 4000 shots varieties

Main reason for not reaching higher level is You i quote "accepting the idea that there is a ceiling to how well you can play", also you mentioned you have limited time.

You are dead wrong about having to start young to be good; all you need a good instructor to shorten your agony and enlighten the way for you to speed the learning process and learn all secrets.

I didn't exactly say you have to start young to be good. I think the jury is still out on that. This is the only part of the natural ability conversation I'm still uncertain about.

But I wasn't even referring to that. For me, it's just simple math. When you are younger and have less responsibilities you can play more pool. More pool is a good thing :) Getting a later start, puts you at a huge disadvantage even if you believe there is no scientific reason that older people can't learn new skills just as well as young people can.

My hunch is that there's an advantage to being young when it comes to mastering certain physical motions. It may be the whole myelin thing but I'm not sure. I'm still open minded on that.


***Actually after rereading what I just wrote - I know that you can start late and be great. There's no doubt about this. What I'm uncertain about it how much of an advantage is it to start out at a young age. Is it just a time thing, meaning is it just a head start these young players get? Or is there a physiological advantage. My hunch is it's a bit of both.

ENGLISH!
11-29-2012, 12:44 PM
Mr. Naji,

With all due respect, I've been shooting with all englishes very successfully for nearly 46 years and I never think about the amount of deflection or swerve unless I am purposely shooting a masse or mini masse. I only 'think' about the speed & amount of spin I want to put on the cue ball along with the amount of 'hit' I want on the OB so as to pocket the OB & then get the position I want.

The squirt & swerve compensations happen on a subconsciuos perception level. I would never 'think' to presume that I could consciously perform ALL of the technical calculations it takes to successfully execute such a shot, plus as you say the effects of the cloth & the humidity. Those things fall under the realm of 'feel' & 'touch'.

If you can handle all of those technical parameters by 'thinking' your way through them, then more power to you & you are more of an intellect than I am.

The only negative thing that comes into my mind is when the possibility of a scrath or moving a ball that I do not want to move comes into play. Then I decide how I am going to deal with it & from then on it's back to all positive thoughts. Except deep down in places that we do not want to think about or talk about, there is fear of failure. It is that fear of failure that pushes me to succeed.

I guess we just play different styles of pool.

Good Luck to you on your journey.

Best Regards,

Rio19
11-29-2012, 12:50 PM
Natural ability.

I have to disgree with you there because one the Greatest Players today (Ralf Souquet) has often said he did not have natural ability he had to work hard to get his game to what it is today..

naji
11-29-2012, 12:53 PM
I didn't exactly say you have to start young to be good. I think the jury is still out on that. This is the only part of the natural ability conversation I'm still uncertain about.

But I wasn't even referring to that. For me, it's just simple math. When you are younger and have less responsibilities you can play more pool. More pool is a good thing :) Getting a later start, puts you at a huge disadvantage even if you believe there is no scientific reason that older people can't learn new skills just as well as young people can.

My hunch is that there's an advantage to being young when it comes to mastering certain physical motions. It may be the whole myelin thing but I'm not sure. I'm still open minded on that.

I do not know your age, take my example, i just turned 52, I play for money all the time, but one day i play good, others i play bad, and i say why why damn it. So i decided to make my only goal last year or so is " Why i miss", i practice at home, take notes, and go to pool room and do life ammunition shots during money game to see if what i learned works under pressure or not, if it fails back to drawing board. My skill last year or so soared, finally i unlocked the mystery, am i a pro player, no, mainly due to my limited time, i cannot spare a week here or there to play tournaments, have two kids in college i need all the $$$$ i can. Am I playing high level of pool sure, it is reflective of how many balls i run in one pocket, i do run 9 ball racks too, 9 ball is the way to go to learn pool, once mastered one can shift to other games.

True, age bring health issues, and no doubt if one's hand, eye sight have diminished capabilities, their game will suffer, also true age bring other opportunities to flood our brain with lots of issues where ones conscious becomes clouded which takes big chunk out of the unconscious mind, one example, you are late going home, and wife is trying to call you, 1st thing that suffers is smooth follow through stroke...bye out the door!

Keep shooting do not stop, aim high you will get there.

Island Drive
11-29-2012, 12:57 PM
I have to disgree with you there because one the Greatest Players today (Ralf Souquet) has often said he did not have natural ability he had to work hard to get his game to what it is today..

I've always felt the same way about Jeff Carter....

BasementDweller
11-29-2012, 01:06 PM
I have to disgree with you there because one the Greatest Players today (Ralf Souquet) has often said he did not have natural ability he had to work hard to get his game to what it is today..

One thing is for sure: If you believe that you have gotten as good as you can possibly get, you will be right!

On the other hand, if you believe you can find a way to improve, you may be right or wrong.

The second approach has more possibilities. I like that one better.

Rio19
11-29-2012, 01:09 PM
I've always felt the same way about Jeff Carter....

Don't know much about Hockey!!:smile:

Rio19
11-29-2012, 01:15 PM
One thing is for sure: If you believe that you have gotten as good as you can possibly get, you will be right!

On the other hand, if you believe you can find a way to improve, you may be right or wrong.

The second approach has more possibilities. I like that one better.

I like the second approach a lot better as well. I remember when I could not hit a shot two inches straight in the pocket. I am sure I did not have natural ability but I did have a drive to learn. I think the biggest thing that holds players back is there pride.

Most players like to think they know everything their is to know about the game. Efren Reyes said he learned from players of all levels and that was when he was ranked number 1 in the world.

naji
11-29-2012, 01:23 PM
Mr. Naji,

With all due respect, I've been shooting with all englishes very successfully for nearly 46 years and I never think about the amount of deflection or swerve unless I am purposely shooting a masse or mini masse. I only 'think' about the speed & amount of spin I want to put on the cue ball along with the amount of 'hit' I want on the OB so as to pocket the OB & then get the position I want.

The squirt & swerve compensations happen on a subconsciuos perception level. I would never 'think' to presume that I could consciously perform ALL of the technical calculations it takes to successfully execute such a shot, plus as you say the effects of the cloth & the humidity. Those things fall under the realm of 'feel' & 'touch'.

If you can handle all of those technical parameters by 'thinking' your way through them, then more power to you & you are more of an intellect than I am.

The only negative thing that comes into my mind is when the possibility of a scrath or moving a ball that I do not want to move comes into play. Then I decide how I am going to deal with it & from then on it's back to all positive thoughts. Except deep down in places that we do not want to think about or talk about, there is fear of failure. It is that fear of failure that pushes me to succeed.

I guess we just play different styles of pool.

Good Luck to you on your journey.

Best Regards,
No problem Rick, we talk, we address what we know, and only thing that separates us is experience, yours could be wiser than mine in certain subject and i gain knowledge, or mine could be wiser and you gain knowledge. It is hard to explain pool just in writing.

When i say think, i do not mean i spend a min or two thinking, but i stop, and consider what errors could hamper making the OB if key shot and $$$ on the line. One example i am sure you know, a shot CB far from OB that requires english, another OB is making you bridge much shorter than normal of which from Dr. Dave site, and experience it increases squirt amount, if you go down quick and just shoot it without this consideration you will miss, especially if OB is far from pocket, or the other option shoot it with what you know best, of which position play might suffer. Take another example, OB at spot shot, and you want to shoot with speed rolling, no english CB up table at kitchen, one thing can go wrong, if you hit too hard, or not used to cloth, CB could slide all the way and stun OB and miss the pot due to throw, or wants draw shot and end up stun draw
Sure the decision is instant at times, but must be considered, and many opportunities like that, that makes us inconsistent, we rush the shot, and say after the miss, oh i did not stoke it, or did not allow for throw, or, or or...4000 possibilities exists in pool game.
So for easy shots close to the hole i just go down and shoot quick too.

ENGLISH!
11-29-2012, 01:44 PM
Mr. Naji,

I hear you. We're all good. That's what a discussion forum is all about. Discussing different topics.

CJ has helped me by adding 3 different tools to my tool box & the TOI may very well become my predominant shot, I'm not sure quite yet, but it is not going to be put on a shelf. It's in my tool box. It already won me a game a couple of weeks ago when I had to cinch a long 'straight' shot that the the money ball, my next ball, was blocking almost 1/2 the pocket. I got down to shoot & then I remembered the TOI & 3 part pocket that goes with it, so I got up, & immediately got back down & cinched it & then shot the money ball right in behind it. It works very well.

Best Regards,

naji
11-29-2012, 01:57 PM
I have to disgree with you there because one the Greatest Players today (Ralf Souquet) has often said he did not have natural ability he had to work hard to get his game to what it is today..

Thanks, Rio19, Natural Abilities, is really hard subject to deal with, i grabbed this from WWW

natural abilities? They are the inborn talents that are always accessible for you to use, any time and any place. By the time you are 14 or 15 years old, your natural abilities have stabilized and, barring any serious disease or physical injury that affects your brain, they will remain with you, unchanging, for your entire life. You don’t have to practice or even use them regularly to maintain them.
They often drive you into certain kinds of activities. For some people, it’s a gift for music or design, or a talent for theoretical thought. Other’s talents are more generalized, such as managing people, or abilities that make writing or teaching easy. There are certain abilities that are the most powerful and influential talents: The Driving Abilities.


Does pool requires special Natural Abilities other than a stabilized and free from any brain injuries of which majority of population have, i want to distinguish between gifted abilities (good voice, beauty) from natural ability here.

I see pool like trying to learn how to type, or play chess of which practice is the only thing that makes the unconscious mind perfect.

I guess one ability "The Driving Abilities" does it influence how far one needs to reach in pool or any other thing? not sure maybe!

naji
11-29-2012, 02:06 PM
Mr. Naji,

I hear you. We're all good. That's what a discussion forum is all about. Discussing different topics.

CJ has helped me by adding 3 different tools to my tool box & the TOI may very well become my predominant shot, I'm not sure quite yet, but it is not going to be put on a shelf. Its' in my tool box. It already won me a game a couple of weeks ago when I had to cinch a long 'straight' shot that the the money ball, my next ball, ws blocking almost 1/2 the pocket. I got down to shot & then I remembered the TOI & 3 part pocket that goes with it so I got up & immediately got back down & cinch it & then shot the money ball right in behind it. it works very well.

Best Regards,

I always have high respect to CJ talent after all he is a pro, so what he says should be taken seriously, he puts a lot of time in it and highly appreciate him sharing it.
I like the tool box analogy it is perfect fit, just do not use metric instead of english!!!!!for the fun!!
Thanks Rick.

Jaden
11-29-2012, 02:08 PM
Woud you then say that those with the most natural ability can afford to practice less than others? They are naturals at the game, so they have no need for hourly practice. Is this the premise you agree with?

I recently had a top tier pro tell me that I had more natural talent than most people could ever hope...

At first I was offended because, I was thinking I have worked so hard to develop the knowledge and ability that I have, but as I got to thinking about it, he wasn't saying that I was a natural at the game, there is no such thing IMO...

He was saying that I had the INNATE ability to be a top player and that I was close to being there.

Very few people have that innate ability, even fewer take the time and have the mentors and can get the knowledge in order put it into use, or they don't have enough of a love for the game to put in the time seeing that the potential reward for doing so is so pathetic.

Me, I love the game and am addicted to it. Kim and Johnny were asking me a couple of weeks ago how I can play so much pool and all I could say was that once I get on a table I can't stop playing. I am literally addicted to playing pool.

A couple of weeks ago I played 14 hours straight without ever stopping for more than 45 seconds. I didn't even take a bathroom break for 12 of the hours.

Jaden

All that being what it is, I have had a VERY hard time playing the game I am capable of under pressure (meaning any time I feel I have something to prove), I have made some recent headway in that regard thanks to someone who shall remain nameless for the time being.

THE FLASH
11-29-2012, 02:18 PM
Me.... It's desire now.

ENGLISH!
11-29-2012, 02:23 PM
I always have high respect to CJ talent after all he is a pro, so what he says should be taken seriously, he puts a lot of time in it and highly appreciate him sharing it.
I like the tool box analogy it is perfect fit, just do not use metric instead of english!!!!!for the fun!!
Thanks Rick.

Mr. Naji,

Thanks for the chuckle.:rotflmao1: I totally agree that playing with english is very much fun. That is partly why I will never abandon it. What is also fun is winning. If TOI can add one(1) percentage point to my winning percentage it's well worth the effort to learn it properly.

In fact if had it back in the day, I would have won even more run out trophies & MVP's. Who knows, if I had it back in the day, I might have hit the road & never have gotten married & my 4 children would not even exsist.

I'm glad I did not have it back in the day. But...I'm glad I ran into now. I just wish I would have ran into it a little bit earlier.

Thanks again for the chuckle.
Best Regards,

Jaden
11-29-2012, 02:24 PM
Me.... It's desire now.

I don't think that it's innate ability or natural talent that holds most people back from becoming better. I think it is personal choice, lack of true desire, dedication.

Almost everyone can become better and or more consistent than they are. I think innate ability prevents people from becoming top players and in some cases just super strong players.

It surely isn't practice. There are APA bangers out there that play 20-40 hours a week that will never get better than a C or B player.

It could be a combination of lack of knowledge and lack of GOOD practice for most people I would think.

But I think that the biggest hurdle for most people is DESIRE... and Dedication.

Jaden

naji
11-29-2012, 02:38 PM
I recently had a top tier pro tell me that I had more natural talent than most people could ever hope...

At first I was offended because, I was thinking I have worked so hard to develop the knowledge and ability that I have, but as I got to thinking about it, he wasn't saying that I was a natural at the game, there is no such thing IMO...

He was saying that I had the INNATE ability to be a top player and that I was close to being there.

Very few people have that innate ability, even fewer take the time and have the mentors and can get the knowledge in order put it into use, or they don't have enough of a love for the game to put in the time seeing that the potential reward for doing so is so pathetic.

Me, I love the game and am addicted to it. Kim and Johnny were asking me a couple of weeks ago how I can play so much pool and all I could say was that once I get on a table I can't stop playing. I am literally addicted to playing pool.

A couple of weeks ago I played 14 hours straight without ever stopping for more than 45 seconds. I didn't even take a bathroom break for 12 of the hours.

Jaden

All that being what it is, I have had a VERY hard time playing the game I am capable of under pressure (meaning any time I feel I have something to prove), I have made some recent headway in that regard thanks to someone who shall remain nameless for the time being.

Hi Jaden,
"have more natural talent than most people could ever hope" did this guy win every tournament he enters in, certainly not, is he up there for sure yes.
If two pros of equal strengths play each other, i can assure you the one that have more continuous sleep that night will dominate
Other factor, free conscious, no one bothers you, no wife, no kids, no bills unpaid, employer looking for you...etc
Then level of knowledge
then how much they practice, and the proper timing between practice and the match, too much practice you will stress your brain, if it is two or three days before a match it might not be beneficial, because at this level you saturated you unconscious mind and cannot take any more learning.

Later

Jaden
11-29-2012, 03:12 PM
Hi Jaden,
"have more natural talent than most people could ever hope" did this guy win every tournament he enters in, certainly not, is he up there for sure yes.
If two pros of equal strengths play each other, i can assure you the one that have more continuous sleep that night will dominate
Other factor, free conscious, no one bothers you, no wife, no kids, no bills unpaid, employer looking for you...etc
Then level of knowledge
then how much they practice, and the proper timing between practice and the match, too much practice you will stress your brain, if it is two or three days before a match it might not be beneficial, because at this level you saturated you unconscious mind and cannot take any more learning.

Later

It doesn't matter. The point is that I don't think that most people that talk about natural talent are talking about picking up a cue and being able to play. They are referring to what your natural or innate ability will be and whether or not you can get farther with more and better knowledge and practice.

I don't think ANYONE That plays at a high level will tell you, that you can play the game at a top level without vast knowledge and experience. It just isn't possible.

MAybe for the one idiot savant in 2 billion, but not in general for sure.

But there is a limit for most people based on their innate ability and for most that "natural talent" just isn't going to let them play at a top level even though most CAN get to a VERY high level, A and above...

Hope that clarifies a little what I was trying to say...

Jaden

Lock N Load
12-19-2012, 11:15 PM
I don't think that it's innate ability or natural talent that holds most people back from becoming better. I think it is personal choice, lack of true desire, dedication.

Almost everyone can become better and or more consistent than they are. I think innate ability prevents people from becoming top players and in some cases just super strong players.

It surely isn't practice. There are APA bangers out there that play 20-40 hours a week that will never get better than a C or B player.

It could be a combination of lack of knowledge and lack of GOOD practice for most people I would think.

But I think that the biggest hurdle for most people is DESIRE... and Dedication.

Jaden

What he said!!! Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

lastdimetaker
01-18-2013, 01:29 PM
I think it is that in the beginning of a players career it is easy to move forward. As your skills get higher your growth slows to a stand still sometimes a player may have to back up a little. A player will find himself working extremely hard just to maintain his current abilities. So my answer is. A player will hit a mental wall that he must break through just to gain a little ground. And then he must push even harder to climb a bigger wall. The guys who are held back telax after a break through just to have to climb same wall. Give up go home and die, or stand an fight an die fighting. For me i fight everyday everynight i may never be a champion but i am better than i was yesterday nothing holds me back i just moving so slow u dont notice. Imo

Ak Guy
01-18-2013, 02:12 PM
I only have so much time every week to devote to pool. It is a hobby that I very much enjoy. But, God, my family and job are my priorities. In a couple of years I will retire, if my wife does not find out I may have more time to improve my game. How many pool players make a really good living playing pool? If any do it is a small percentage of the worlds shooters. Is pool more fun then fishing during an Alaskan summer? Not when the fish are biting and after that is hunting season. Pool is a winter sport for many Alaskan's.

JoeyA
01-18-2013, 04:09 PM
I only have so much time every week to devote to pool. It is a hobby that I very much enjoy. But, God, my family and job are my priorities. In a couple of years I will retire, if my wife does not find out I may have more time to improve my game. How many pool players make a really good living playing pool? If any do it is a small percentage of the worlds shooters. Is pool more fun then fishing during an Alaskan summer? Not when the fish are biting and after that is hunting season. Pool is a winter sport for many Alaskan's.

One of YOUSE guys vacations in the winter down here in New Orleans EVERY year.

Island Drive
01-19-2013, 11:06 AM
Don't know much about Hockey!!:smile:

You right, tho my dad played for the Chicago Black Hawks farm team before WWII and my grandfather was their team doctor, had his business across the street. Short track speed skating.........................now yer talkin'.:thumbup:

ENGLISH!
01-19-2013, 11:34 AM
Since we are supposed to be talking about most people that are being held back in some way, I'll say this.

I think it is their perception that playing the game well is very difficult. Naturally the terms well & difficult are subjective terms. I started learning when I was 13 years old while watching a retired gentleman that knew it all & still played very well despite having to wear rather thick glasses. At 13, seeing this little old man with thick glasses do what he did, spinning the ball all over the table & making shots in ways that I did not even invision, made me say to myself, 'well if he can do that, so can I'.

I started trying all kinds of shots hitting almost every one with some form of spin just like he was doing. I was 13 & did not feel that anything was too difficult. At least not too difficult to try. Try it, mis. Try it again, mis. Try it again, make it. Okay, I got it. I understand how that works.

I was playing rather well before I ever took my 1st. physics class in high school.

So I would say that one's mind set is what holds them back. 13 year olds know little to no fear of embarassment when trying something new & they don't even know the phrase, 'I can't' even exists.

So...my advice to anyone trying to get better would be, 'play like a 13 year old'.

Oh yeah, 13 year olds really like to win, especially when playing adults.

Best Regards &

duckie
01-19-2013, 12:22 PM
It all depends where you are in your development as a player.

Everyone knows the phrase, "To get better, play better players." What happens when you run out of better players?

If there is no one better, how can you get better? This can happen in local rooms that always has the "regulars." I'm frustrated in that there are few that want to play 14.1 heads up and as such I'm not improving fast enough for me. Once a week in a league is not enough for me.

So a steady source of better players can be a limiting factor in your overall devolpment as a player.