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View Full Version : Not so common question about Bar Room 8-Ball


el_h3fe
04-09-2013, 07:49 AM
Okay, so I asked a ton of people about this and the opinions vary drastically so I am here to get it cleared up... I don't play alot of bar style 8-ball but here goes...

Its standard bar room 8 ball... Call your shots, scratch behind the line and its not a foul if you don't hit your own ball first. So, I break and I drop one of each and the table is still open.. I scope the table and the solids look best to me except for one problem ball... The 7 ball was stuck right on the 13 ball. So, what I did was I called the 13 into the 7 with the 7 dropping into the side pocket. This is the issue. Now, before you say "you can't use the other persons ball to pocket yours", you must remember... I broke and made one of each so the table is still open and we have not determined who has solids and who has stripes. So, since the table is still open, should I not be able to call any ball that I want (except for something with the 8 ball as its not a neutral ball)?

I don't see how this would be an illegal shot unless we had already determined who was stripes and who was solids. So, I ask you.. Has anyone else ever ran into this problem and does anyone else know for sure what the rule would be? It doesn't come up alot, I know this... However, in that situation it was the only problem ball that I had so I wanted to take care of it right then and there. So, I did and then ran out. I thought it was kinda creative, lol. Needless to say, my opponent didn't think it was.

Its been bugging me to get some actual clarification on this so I know for sure. I am not a cheater but I had never been told any differently and when asking others, I don't think many of them fully understood the scenario that I was describing.. Any input on this would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
-Justin B.

Robert58
04-09-2013, 03:39 PM
We had a thread on this about a week or two ago. But the rule is you can't use two different groups for the combination. It has to be solid to solid or strip to strip. I had the same thing called on me in my League last month.

Someone said that the rule used to be in the BCA rule book but they didn't know if it still was in it.

el_h3fe
04-09-2013, 05:10 PM
Well I appreciate the info. I usually know every rule about the pool games that iplay but this one actually threw me for a loop.

Y2k7JK
04-09-2013, 10:59 PM
Funny thing is that there is no such thing as "standard" bar rules. Everywhere varies a bit. Around here, if the table is still open, the shot you describe is legal, since it it treated the same was as the break. Of course, the 8 ball is off limits, but other than that it's all good. This one varies place to place though. The ONE time I had someone dispute it, my immediate response was "Well, then only solids count on break since you hit the 1 ball first" :grin:

avawright
04-10-2013, 03:30 AM
Good to read this thread

el_h3fe
04-18-2013, 09:11 AM
Y2k7JK, thats actually a great point and I plan on bringing that up if this ever happens again. I've never been in a situation where I didn't know what the rules were for an 8-ball shot but this one really stumped me. I know it doesn't come up alot but you do make a very valid point. Thanks alot for the information.

Jim Baxter
04-20-2013, 07:23 PM
I think the Key word is Open Table . Combo of any kind , as long as its called , should be a legal shot . Jim

ideologist
04-27-2013, 09:50 AM
I think the Key word is Open Table . Combo of any kind , as long as its called , should be a legal shot . Jim

This is exactly how it should work. However "bar rules" 8-ball needs a 10-minute dissertation on the rules beforehand if there is any cheese on the line, and it is why I hate playing it.

Everyone cries about the rules.

GoBilliards
05-01-2013, 10:03 AM
I would never consider playing 8ball with no rules. It a horrible game without 1 foul ball in hand. It's the only way to play the game without a bunch of mickey mouse situations coming up. There are several league rule books out there and all of them, worth a salt, allow you to make combos when the table is open. If you are gambling, agree on a rule book or don't play. Anytime you assume a rule, It's a recipe for disaster.

hang-the-9
05-06-2013, 01:31 PM
In "real" 8 ball rules, you can play an opposite group in a combo with an open table. This rule actually can catch even some experienced players off guard. I distinctly remember playing a low B, high C player that was about 60, he has been playing for YEARS in regular pool rooms using regular rules, and he looked shocked when I played a combo using a solid and a stripe.

Jim Baxter
05-06-2013, 08:16 PM
There are so many different rule common to the area you are in . In the 60's in San Jose , Ca. you make the 8 on the break , You Loose . In N.Hollywood , just off Sunset , I made the 8 3 times in a row , got a pitcher for each one , and I gave them to whom just lost , I didn't drink beer when shooting there . They *****ed because I was making the 8 ball , so I left and went to the Jumpin Jack , usually my last stop , and lost my Ass . GL Jim

mortuarymike-nv
05-14-2013, 08:56 AM
If you want to argue over pool ,8 ball has tons of different rules.
I was talking to a better player one time and he said I dont play 8 ball , there are to many different sets of rules, and I dont care to argue over them.

I only play ball in hand rules.... or league rule, bca rules, I liked the IPT rules.
But I dont do gentlemans 8 ball.
MMike

armoworrior
05-14-2013, 10:35 AM
Funny thing is that there is no such thing as "standard" bar rules. Everywhere varies a bit. Around here, if the table is still open, the shot you describe is legal, since it it treated the same was as the break. Of course, the 8 ball is off limits, but other than that it's all good. This one varies place to place though. The ONE time I had someone dispute it, my immediate response was "Well, then only solids count on break since you hit the 1 ball first" :grin:

here is the link to the BCA rule book. http://www.playbca.com/downloads/rul...erulebook.aspx
and everything is spelled out this is what i go by unless you have previously stated any other rule per the house. as for not using the 8-ball at all in combinations there is only one situation you can and it has to be somewhere in the middle of the string. and also if you sink the 8-ball off of the break its not a loss or a win (at most places) all you have to do depending on the other player it is either spotted or a rerack. not sure if the turn is over though but the BCA book spells it all out. i think having a somewhat standard rule book levels the playing field more, but thats here nor there.

tucson9ball
05-17-2013, 03:52 PM
Okay, so I asked a ton of people about this and the opinions vary drastically so I am here to get it cleared up... I don't play alot of bar style 8-ball but here goes...

Its standard bar room 8 ball... Call your shots, scratch behind the line and its not a foul if you don't hit your own ball first. So, I break and I drop one of each and the table is still open.. I scope the table and the solids look best to me except for one problem ball... The 7 ball was stuck right on the 13 ball. So, what I did was I called the 13 into the 7 with the 7 dropping into the side pocket. This is the issue. Now, before you say "you can't use the other persons ball to pocket yours", you must remember... I broke and made one of each so the table is still open and we have not determined who has solids and who has stripes. So, since the table is still open, should I not be able to call any ball that I want (except for something with the 8 ball as its not a neutral ball)?

I don't see how this would be an illegal shot unless we had already determined who was stripes and who was solids. So, I ask you.. Has anyone else ever ran into this problem and does anyone else know for sure what the rule would be? It doesn't come up alot, I know this... However, in that situation it was the only problem ball that I had so I wanted to take care of it right then and there. So, I did and then ran out. I thought it was kinda creative, lol. Needless to say, my opponent didn't think it was.

Its been bugging me to get some actual clarification on this so I know for sure. I am not a cheater but I had never been told any differently and when asking others, I don't think many of them fully understood the scenario that I was describing.. Any input on this would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
-Justin B.

LOL, well Justin.....there is no standard "bar rules".

I played the rules you are describing in many bars, mostly with drinkers and bangers.
These guys typically wouldn't allow an odd combo that you did, using a strip into solid. The other goofy thing was...there really wasn't any penalty for a foul. You simply lost your turn. But.....there lies the secret. Actually playing a deliberate safety was frowned upon. As a matter of fact, some places would call it "bush league" to play an intentional safety. Other places you may have to run for the door if you played what they called "southside pool".
Getting back to the secret of this style.......you had to learn to play a safety without it looking like a safety. In other words, you had to get good at missing shots ;). Most times you would shoot in 1 or 2 balls and miss. The trick was to bunch up their balls or get yours out in the open.
Anyhoo, I only play by BCAPL rules nowadays. I got tired of playing in dimly lit bars and laying down my game to get a $1 or beer. After all, you can only get so many free beers before you start giving them away. I would rather play all out and let the chips fall where they may.

DogsPlayingPool
05-17-2013, 05:26 PM
We had a thread on this about a week or two ago. But the rule is you can't use two different groups for the combination. It has to be solid to solid or strip to strip. I had the same thing called on me in my League last month.

Someone said that the rule used to be in the BCA rule book but they didn't know if it still was in it.

Not sure whether you mean the BCAPL (pool league) or the Billiard Congress of America (which is really WPA rules), but it really doesn't matter. Under either of those rules sets you may use any combination of balls if the table is open, except you cannot contact the 8 ball first.

As for standard bar rules - there is no such thing. ;)

onepocketron
06-03-2013, 01:59 AM
There are no "standard rules" in bar pool. Back in the day (late 60 early 70) it was run out pool. If you played any kind of safety (at least down in south Texas) you would probably have a fight on your hands quickly. If you made a ball on the break, those were yours, if you scratched on the 8 you lose, if you make the 8 on the break you win. Combos only with you balls, no others. I haven't been to a bar in over 23 years, wonder if it's still the same, I bet it is, here anyway.

GADawg
08-31-2013, 12:01 AM
I think the Key word is Open Table . Combo of any kind , as long as its called , should be a legal shot . Jim

Correct except 8 ball cannot be first ball hit in the combination. Must be solid or stripe

StuartTKelley
10-02-2013, 10:13 AM
if it's not Masters rules or APA I wouldn't play the game. I think someone else said it best when they said "mickey mouse". I don't prefer APA 8ball because it isn't open on the break and that can get you punished in a hurry against a good player.