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bruin70
05-08-2006, 03:08 AM
blomdahl defeated reyes in an exhibition(i think) 9ball match.

i heard sayginer beat efren badly in a 3c exhibition.

someone told me reyes beat blomdahl in a 3c match, and this i cannot believe!

can anyone enlighten me? thanks

Double-Dave
05-08-2006, 03:17 AM
I haven't heard of these matches, but I know Efren plays some mean 3-cushion (I believe he was asian champion in '95) so he could definitely beat Blomdahl and Sayginer. If they were to play extremely long matches I'm pretty sure Semih and Tjorborn (or something) would come out on top playing 3C. Blomdahl is playing pool in the Dutch ProTeamLeague and boy can he play.

cuetechasaurus
05-08-2006, 04:39 AM
I haven't heard of these matches, but I know Efren plays some mean 3-cushion (I believe he was asian champion in '95) so he could definitely beat Blomdahl and Sayginer. If they were to play extremely long matches I'm pretty sure Semih and Tjorborn (or something) would come out on top playing 3C. Blomdahl is playing pool in the Dutch ProTeamLeague and boy can he play.

I don't think Efren could beat any of the top 3-cushion players unless he was to solely practice 3-cushion for a good 3-6 months. He's got all the knowledge and ability to play world class 3-cushion.

As for Blomdahl playing pool, I am very glad to hear that. That guy is a FRIGGIN MACHINE! I think that 3-cushion players converted to pool players are the best. They are extremely accurate shotmakers, because in 3-cushion you must be extremely accurate on how thick or thin you hit the OB, and exactly where you strike the cueball. Plus with Blomdahl's power stroke, holy crap he would be unstoppable if he converted strictly to pocket billiards. Ok well that's just a guess, but I think he would be one of the world's best if he played for a year.

bud green
05-08-2006, 08:50 AM
I'm going to have to disagree on this one. In a long race, Efren has no chance against Sayginer or Blomdahl just like they have no chance to beat Efren in a serious match of pool.

Efren probably averages .800 to 1.100. Blomdahl has averaged double that in numerous tournements around the world. Same thing for Sayginer.

Robert Byrne gets all excited on the old 3-C matches talking about Blomdahl's pool game. Blomdahl himself has said he'd have no chance against the top phillipinos. Maybe shortstop speed, but no chance in hell of being one of the best. Same thing for snooker- Blomdahl can make some nice runs but there's probably 100 teenagers in the UK who would drill him.

Sayginer reportedly was playing pool and missed a shot and someone made a joke. Supposedly he ran three nice racks of 14.1 after that and looked like he knew what he was doing. Still, I doubt he wants any part of Thorsten Holmann,etc...

The Sang Lee tournement is being held in NY again this year. Maybe someone can get Efren to enter and we can see what he can do.

bizboy313
05-08-2006, 08:54 AM
Well I believe Reyes would have to qualify for the tournament in that little pre-tournament tournament they do. I was there last year and let me tell you, there were guys who were averaging 1 or better and not qualifying. Its a TOUGH field.

Double-Dave
05-08-2006, 11:08 AM
I'm going to have to disagree on this one. In a long race, Efren has no chance against Sayginer or Blomdahl just like they have no chance to beat Efren in a serious match of pool.

Efren probably averages .800 to 1.100. Blomdahl has averaged double that in numerous tournements around the world. Same thing for Sayginer.

Robert Byrne gets all excited on the old 3-C matches talking about Blomdahl's pool game. Blomdahl himself has said he'd have no chance against the top phillipinos. Maybe shortstop speed, but no chance in hell of being one of the best. Same thing for snooker- Blomdahl can make some nice runs but there's probably 100 teenagers in the UK who would drill him.

Sayginer reportedly was playing pool and missed a shot and someone made a joke. Supposedly he ran three nice racks of 14.1 after that and looked like he knew what he was doing. Still, I doubt he wants any part of Thorsten Holmann,etc...

The Sang Lee tournement is being held in NY again this year. Maybe someone can get Efren to enter and we can see what he can do.

Who exactly are you disagreeing with? I also said in a long race Blomdahl or Sayginer would beat him at 3C, but in a race to 30? I'm pretty sure Efren has a chance even though he'll lose more often than win. Torbjorn started has cue-experience with pool. I'd say if he took it up full-time he would be able to be in the IPT, hence top 150 of the world. I had the pleasure of seeing Semih Sayginer play pool for about an hour. His break is kinda weak, but he runs tables for fun, probably in the long run Torbjorn would be a little stronger. Both of these guys imo are forces to be reckoned with, espescially Blomdahl since he's playing pool regularly now. He was beaten by Niels Feijen 9-7, beat Gijs van Helmond (Straight pool WC qualifier) 9-3. Where did you hear about Blomdahl saying he is shortstop speed?

gr. Dave

bruin70
05-08-2006, 02:13 PM
i'm not talking hypothetical etc etc. the match between reyes/sayginer/blomdahl took place years ago. it was an exhibition. blomdahl. in fact, has not only won a european 9ball championship, he also plays snooker.

that is not my question. anyway, just found out that in that exhibition match, blomdahl beat reyes in both 9ball and 3c. he had poor 3c game, and still beat reyes 50-35. blomdahl said reyes is good(one of the better players at carom cafe averages 1), but he doesn't really understand the game. i don't think reyes could ever beat a top level 3c player unless the stars were aligned. nothing against reyes,,,,,,he just doesn't play enough. still, he's simply the best there is.

sjm
05-08-2006, 05:09 PM
My guess is that in a race to 50, Efren Reyes is at least a 15:1 shot against Thorbjorn Blomdahl.

Supposedly, Efren is a world class balkline player, but I've never watched him play that game. I have seen him play three cushion.

bruin70
05-08-2006, 09:41 PM
Supposedly, Efren is a world class balkline player, but I've never watched him play that game. I have seen him play three cushion.


someone posted several months ago that he was impressed watching reyes run a few 20's in balkline. the top players run in the 100's and caudron has run 300(game) at least a few times but i don't know the exact stats on this.

i think 20's is too low for efren, but i don't think he can group the balls like the others can. he probably plays on instinct. i can't see efren running 100.

Bob Jewett
05-08-2006, 10:11 PM
s... Caudron has run 300(game) at least a few times but i don't know the exact stats on this.
...
In the last 18.2 (they call it 47/2) balkline world championship, Caudron ran 300 and out in his last three matches and finished with a record average of 126.7 (for the winner). For details, see

http://www.kozoom.com/index2.php?menu=3&player=280&organisation=504

which is in French but is not that hard to figure out. In the same tournament, Rafael Garcia had a higher average but finished 3rd. A DVD is available of the semifinals and finals of that tournament from Kozoom or www.i-billiard.nl

JoeyInCali
05-08-2006, 11:47 PM
blomdahl defeated reyes in an exhibition(i think) 9ball match.

i heard sayginer beat efren badly in a 3c exhibition.

someone told me reyes beat blomdahl in a 3c match, and this i cannot believe!

can anyone enlighten me? thanks
I believe back in '97-98, Efren had an exhibition in Japan with Bloomdahl.
Efren got drilled in 3-c but won the straight-rail match.
There is no way Bloomdahl beat Efren in 9-ball.

Double-Dave
05-09-2006, 01:27 AM
There is no way Bloomdahl beat Efren in 9-ball.

Why not? I included a link to show Torbjorn results in the PTL in Holland, he hasn't played very much this year, but next year he'll be joining at least one additional meeting which can be up to three matches. If he can beat Gijs van Helmond, and keep up with Niels Feijen, I think he can beat (and not to upset bruin70, probably has) Efren at nine ball. I would make him a 7-1 outsider in a race to 9.
http://www.proteamleague.nl/profile.asp?spelerid=180&spelernaam=Torbjörn%20Blomdahl

nibrobus
05-09-2006, 02:52 AM
I believe back in '97-98, Efren had an exhibition in Japan with Bloomdahl.
Efren got drilled in 3-c but won the straight-rail match.
There is no way Bloomdahl beat Efren in 9-ball.

Sorry Joey - you know I'm a HUGE Efren fan (check the avatar), but I have the tape where Blomdahl beats Efren in a 9 ball exhibition. My Japanese friend let me borrow the tape; it shows Efren doing some trick shots and then he races Blomdahl to 9; final score was 9-3 I think. Blomdahl makes a ball on almost every break and just keeps running out. In the post match interview Efren states that the table had big pockets and was easy to run out on as long as you could make a ball on the break.

parvus1202
05-09-2006, 04:18 AM
I don't think Reyes can play in all those tours. There is enough 9 ball and 8 ball for him in a year. So 3C, 14.1 and others are just not in Reyes's calendar. If he is capable of beating everybody, then you will see him competing every week, but he knows there others who better than him in other pool diciplines. The only way you could see him play those are in exhibition games.

Black-Balled
05-09-2006, 05:37 AM
Very interesting stuff!

Jus so we are all on the same page- does everyone agree- Efren/ Blomdahl/ Sayginer...all BAD AZZ MUFUGERS!?

bruin70
05-09-2006, 08:50 AM
I
There is no way Bloomdahl beat Efren in 9-ball.


yes he did......my friend has the tape. don't forget, blomdahl won a european championship in 9ball, and plays/played snooker. no slight on efren, bud, cuz i think he's tops. but the idea that he actually beat blomdahl in 3c is unfathomable. 3c is a whole different ball o' wax.

Get_A_Grip
05-09-2006, 10:05 AM
I just watched an Accu-Stats tape the other day where Efren was playing straight pool and the commentators said that in the Phillipines that they eventually banned Efren from playing in the balkline tournaments because he won it so many times. (I think that they said it was straight-line?).

They also said that his average was 40 (stating that an average like that was very impressive)...and that after he was banned from the tournaments that he would challenge whoever won the tournament to a race to 500 and spot them 100 points.

JoeyInCali
05-09-2006, 10:59 AM
Sorry Joey - you know I'm a HUGE Efren fan (check the avatar), but I have the tape where Blomdahl beats Efren in a 9 ball exhibition. My Japanese friend let me borrow the tape; it shows Efren doing some trick shots and then he races Blomdahl to 9; final score was 9-3 I think. Blomdahl makes a ball on almost every break and just keeps running out. In the post match interview Efren states that the table had big pockets and was easy to run out on as long as you could make a ball on the break.
My bad. Now, I'm really impressed by Bloomdahl.
Not that I wasn't impressed before. I saw him in Vegas 3 years ago and his 3-c game is out of this world.

JoeyInCali
05-09-2006, 11:00 AM
I just watched an Accu-Stats tape the other day where Efren was playing straight pool and the commentators said that in the Phillipines that they eventually banned Efren from playing in the balkline tournaments because he won it so many times. (I think that they said it was straight-line?).

They also said that his average was 40 (stating that an average like that was very impressive)...and that after he was banned from the tournaments that he would challenge whoever won the tournament to a race to 500 and spot them 100 points.
Efren was the Karambola King in the islands back then.
Straight-rail only.

Bob Jewett
05-09-2006, 11:16 AM
... banned Efren from playing in the balkline tournaments because he won it so many times. (I think that they said it was straight-line?).

They also said that his average was 40 (stating that an average like that was very impressive)...and that after he was banned from the tournaments that he would challenge whoever won the tournament to a race to 500 and spot them 100 points.
Almost certainly straight rail, but I could be wrong. Straight rail and balkline are very different games. Someone who averages 20 at balkline can probably run 10,000 at straight rail, given some incentive.

Anyone interested in seeing what can be done at carom billiards should get Frederic Caudron's DVD set "Master of Billiards" (or "Le Virtuose de Billard") at http://www.i-billiard.nl/products_online_en.html

On that 2-DVD set, he shows how to play straight rail, at least 3 kinds of balkline, cushion caroms (you might call it "one cushion billiards"), and 3-cushion. I think he runs at least 100 at each (except 3-C), and at straight rail he gets the balls on the cushion and takes them around the table a couple of times. He shoots very, very quickly, and he gives commentary (in English) on why he's taking certain shots and how he's playing them.

The DVD set is also available from Kozoom, but their shipping was more when I checked into it.

If you think you have ever seen a pool player with good control of the balls, I think you will change your mind when you see Caudron play balkline.

nibrobus
05-09-2006, 11:50 AM
Just finished watching the Blomdahl vs. Reyes exhibition match...

Final Score: 9-5 Blomdahl over Reyes

Post Match Interview:

Efren states that he table was easy so anyone can win on it

Efren says he would like to keep improving he 3-cushion game so he can compete with Blomdahl.

I'd also like to note that Efren treated the match very nonchalantly and went for some crazy shots. In the first game, Blomdahl breaks and makes nothing. Efren then steps up and two strokes this shot:

START(
%AP0P3%BM7Z1%Cm8S1%DM7F5%EG1M5%FF8N9%GK7N8%Hd1I2%I R0R7%JB1B7
%KB9B7%LB7B8%MB6B6%NB1B2%OB1B8%PD5Y9%QX5_0%Wr2Z9%X R6S0%[O2Q4
%\E0Y6%]Q1R2%^P0Q0
)END

hanisch
05-09-2006, 12:25 PM
in all likelihood, if reyes enters the next sang lee international he would not last long.

the next SL open will be held in august, 2006 from the 13th to the 20th at carom cafe in flushing, ny. the format will be:

qualifying round robin: 96 players grouped in 12 flights of 8. games to 25 points. top two in each flight advance, as well as the best six (of the 12) third place finishers.

semifinal round robin: 40 players grouped in 5 flights of 8. games to 35 points. the 40 players consist of the 30 from the qualifying round, 5 auctions/lottos, and the 5 seeded players (most likely blomdahl, sayginer, jaspers, caudron, and ceulemans). top two from each flight advance to the A finals, and the next two advance to the B finals.

final round robins: A finals play to 40 points for places 1 to 10. B finals play to 35 points for places 11 to 20. each final is a ten player round robin.

purse is $100,000. first place gets $15,000, second $12,000, third $10,000, ... down to 20th place getting $1500.

the chances of reyes making it to the A finals is almost nil. and they're not much better that he would make to the B finals. it's even money at best that he would make it out of the qualifying round and on to the semifinal round robin. to paint a picture of how strong the field is, consider last year's results.

last year, the semifinal round robin consisted of 4 flights of 8. the overall averages of each flight were 1.246, 1.208, 1.215, and 1.306. the B final round robin had an overall average of 1.223, and the A final round robin averaged 1.558 overall.

as you can see, even if reyes plays at his best, say 1.2 (which is really a stretch since averages go down as the competition goes up--i.e. it's much easier to average 1.0 against a worse player than a better player), he will play below the overall average. in fact, there's a very good chance he wouldn't even break 1.0 against this field.

william

iralee
05-09-2006, 12:26 PM
Almost certainly straight rail, but I could be wrong. Straight rail and balkline are very different games. Someone who averages 20 at balkline can probably run 10,000 at straight rail, given some incentive.

Anyone interested in seeing what can be done at carom billiards should get Frederic Caudron's DVD set "Master of Billiards" (or "Le Virtuose de Billard") at http://www.i-billiard.nl/products_online_en.html

On that 2-DVD set, he shows how to play straight rail, at least 3 kinds of balkline, cushion caroms (you might call it "one cushion billiards"), and 3-cushion. I think he runs at least 100 at each (except 3-C), and at straight rail he gets the balls on the cushion and takes them around the table a couple of times. He shoots very, very quickly, and he gives commentary (in English) on why he's taking certain shots and how he's playing them.

The DVD set is also available from Kozoom, but their shipping was more when I checked into it.

If you think you have ever seen a pool player with good control of the balls, I think you will change your mind when you see Caudron play balkline.

I agree - Caudron's DVD is real eye-opener for any serious player who wants to witness the level of ball control that is humanly possible these days. I was so impressed with he DVD that I bought a few copies just to give to my friends. Caudron has absolutely uncanny cue AND object ball control. With such a solid background in balkline, I think that Caudron may very soon become the world champion of 3-cushion.

About 10 years ago, I watched him play pool for fun at Sang Lee's billiard room when one of the house players challenged him to play 9-ball while he was there for the 3-cushion tournament. As a joke, he was pretending to not know the rules, but then broke and ran out practically every table. After a few racks he admitted to "playing a little". Whenever he got a little out of line, he slow-banked shots in like they were nothing - it was scary. If you watch this DVD you will understand just how good of a cueist he is. His soft touch masse/pique strokes which he NEVER misses are really astounding. He's a really nice person and overly modest for a guy with his talents. Balkline is his best game (18.1, 18.2, etc).

Besides the hundreds he runs at straight, balkline and 1-cushion, on his DVD he also runs 15 from the break in 3-cushion explaining each shot and each position in his commentary. I thought it was great because they used the (uncommonly seen) multi-angle feature so you can press a button on your remote anytime to toggle between the overhead view and the closeup.

He has a website: www.fred.caudron.info where he sells his book

-Ira

TSW
05-09-2006, 12:36 PM
He has a website: www.fred.caudron.info where he sells his book

Says there he has a high run of 27. Yowza.

iralee
05-09-2006, 01:25 PM
Just finished watching the Blomdahl vs. Reyes exhibition match...

Final Score: 9-5 Blomdahl over Reyes

Post Match Interview:

Efren states that he table was easy so anyone can win on it

Efren says he would like to keep improving he 3-cushion game so he can compete with Blomdahl.

I'd also like to note that Efren treated the match very nonchalantly and went for some crazy shots. In the first game, Blomdahl breaks and makes nothing. Efren then steps up and two strokes this shot:

START(
%AP0P3%BM7Z1%Cm8S1%DM7F5%EG1M5%FF8N9%GK7N8%Hd1I2%I R0R7%JB1B7
%KB9B7%LB7B8%MB6B6%NB1B2%OB1B8%PD5Y9%QX5_0%Wr2Z9%X R6S0%[O2Q4
%\E0Y6%]Q1R2%^P0Q0
)END


I have a copy of this tape, also - taken from Japanese TV. I think Efren maybe took Blomdahl a bit too lightly to start off.

Right off the bat, Efren took a risky 1-9 carom off Blomdahl's first dry break (and made it!). But then Blomdahl broke and ran the next 3(?) racks and basically ran out with any opportunity given to him. He was up 7-2 at one point - if I recall correctly... and Efren didn't really have control of the table.

Near the end of the match, Blomdahl played Efren a tough saftey which forced him to try a 3 cushion table-length cross-table kick at the one (which Efren misses by a HAIR - giving up ball in hand. TB ran out easily.

On the 3-cushion segment, it looked to me like the table played VERY short - almost like an unheated pool table - and it took Blomdahl a few more innings to adjust. But once he locked onto the table, he ran away with it: 30 points in 19 or 20 innings (which isn't really a great game for his normal standards). But I recall that Efren looked very comfortable on the 3-cushion table. It appeared that his strategy was to go all out to score (no defense) against Blomdahl - which is probably his best plan (to make lots of points) since he obviously can't out-move him in 3-cushion tactical play. In the end, Efren really didn't miss any of his shots by that much - he naturally knows the cue ball very well.

-Ira

bud green
05-09-2006, 03:30 PM
Can someone post details of the championship Blomdahl won at nine ball?

I think its an Accu-Stats three cushion tape with Torbjorn doing commentary where he says he doesn't think he plays pool nearly as well as the philipino players. I don't doubt at all he can play great pool, I just don't see him having much chance of winning a pro event in the states competing against the likes of Archer, Earl, Deuel, the philipinos,etc...

He's my favorite player so I'd love him to prove me wrong. I own just about every accu-stat tape he's on and have posted before I think his talent is just as great as Efrens.

Maybe he'll try out for the IPT :cool:

1 Pocket Ghost
05-09-2006, 03:36 PM
This is a copy of a post that I posted a few months ago to a thread that was comparing top 3-cushion players skills with top pool players skills >>>


" About 10 years ago or so, Blomdahl was in Chicago for a world class 3 cushion tournament. One night after tournament play was over, Blomdahl played Marco Marquez some cheap 9 ball just to goof off ( I think it was for 5 a game ) - everybody was sweating it just for the curiosity factor. Well Blomdahl surprised everybody by holding his own and running as many racks as Marco and we all had fun watching it. Blomdahl was even chirping a little saying " Well, I can play a little pool ". It kinda makes you wonder just how good guys like Sayginer and the rest of the billiard champions would have been at pool if they played just pool and no 3 cushion.

PS, I don't think Blomdahl will be mad at me for knocking his '9 ball action' ^_^ "

cuetechasaurus
05-09-2006, 05:39 PM
I really think some of these top 3-cushion players would play top level pool if they solely switched to pool for a year or two. 3-cushion players have more solid fundamentals than even snooker players, and with more powerful strokes to boot. Combine that with their accuracy and knowledge of rails, well that's pretty strong.