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View Full Version : "There's always a shot" - true or false?


TheOne
05-11-2006, 07:00 AM
I've always lived by the saying: "there's always a shot".

Does everyone agree that this is true or can you think of any situation where there is "no shot" (to either get safe or make a ball)?

catscradle
05-11-2006, 07:26 AM
I've always lived by the saying: "there's always a shot".

Does everyone agree that this is true or can you think of any situation where there is "no shot" (to either get safe or make a ball)?

Well I guess it is true, but at my skill level I can't always execute it and I can't always see it. I guess in that sense there isn't always a shot.
It's kind of like the saying "does a tree falling make a sound if nobody is there to hear it?", "is a shot always there if there is nobody there to execute it?"

supergreenman
05-11-2006, 07:30 AM
I've always lived by the saying: "there's always a shot".

Does everyone agree that this is true or can you think of any situation where there is "no shot" (to either get safe or make a ball)?
It's true there's always a shot. Whether you can pull it off or not is a different question.

Even if you have no choice but to take a foul, at least make the foul to your advantage by rearanging things to suit you better.

jsp
05-11-2006, 07:44 AM
...Does everyone agree that this is true or can you think of any situation where there is "no shot" (to either get safe or make a ball)?
What about this situation? I guess there is a shot if you send the 9 about 17 rails (without pocketing the 9) and have it rest perfectly on the 8 such that there is no dead combination to any pocket with BIH. :)

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steev
05-11-2006, 08:05 AM
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there's always a shot. jump off the point and run 2 more rails to cut the 8 in :p

-s

TheOne
05-11-2006, 08:08 AM
What about this situation? I guess there is a shot if you send the 9 about 17 rails (without pocketing the 9) and have it rest perfectly on the 8 such that there is no dead combination to any pocket with BIH. :)

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OK so maybe it applies more to 8 ball lol, not a bad example and certainly few options in that situation if any.

steev
05-11-2006, 08:08 AM
and no, i can't do that. but i bet someone could.

-s

supergreenman
05-11-2006, 08:23 AM
and no, i can't do that. but i bet someone could.

-s
Chuck Norris? :p

ShootingArts
05-11-2006, 08:30 AM
It is true that you can always hit the cue ball but sometimes all you can do is foul and give away the game. Maybe the most beautiful shot in the game is to jaw the cue ball and bring your ball back to almost touch or touch it. Your opponent's only option is to jump off of the pocket facing or the back of the pocket. I have never succeeded in that shot yet with a deeply jawed cue ball. Even tighter scenarios can be set up almost anywhere on the table using two balls and a rail.

Hu

I've always lived by the saying: "there's always a shot".

Does everyone agree that this is true or can you think of any situation where there is "no shot" (to either get safe or make a ball)?

TheOne
05-11-2006, 08:45 AM
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there's always a shot. jump off the point and run 2 more rails to cut the 8 in :p

-s

The way he set this shot up you can't hit the other jaw without hitting the 9 first so I doubt the shot you mention is possible.

Andrew Manning
05-11-2006, 08:49 AM
Well, what do we mean by "shot" here?
Is it always possible to make a legal hit? No.
When you can make a legal hit, is it always possible to pocket the ball? No.
When you can't pocket the ball, is it always possible to hook your opponent? No.
When you can pocket the ball, is it always possible to get position on the next ball? Yes (assuming "position" just means possible shot).
When you can't make a legal hit, it is always possible to freeze the balls to make your opponent's runout difficult? No.

That's what I think. There are situations I can think of, pretty much all involving multiple frozen balls, where in my opinion you can't make a legal hit, or where you can make a legal hit but can't pocket your ball, or where you can't make a legal hit AND can't create an un-runnable table.

How often do these situations come up where these things are truly not possible in my opinion? Virtually never. In a real game, I would agree that there's always a shot, it's just a matter of whether you're creative/knowledgable enough to see it, and skilled enough to do it.

-Andrew

steev
05-11-2006, 08:50 AM
i'd have to be a little closer to the table to determine that. if that was declared up front, yes.

-s

9BallBust-O
05-11-2006, 08:53 AM
I did have to come to the table with ball in hand on this --- I was already on ONE foul - I tried to place cue ball on rail to shoot the four ( as in picture )but was not allowed. Needless to say NO SHOT and I 3 fouled out.

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it sucked

steev
05-11-2006, 08:55 AM
I did have to come to the table with ball in hand on this --- I was already on ONE foul - I tried to place cue ball on rail to shoot the four ( as in picture )but was not allowed. Needless to say NO SHOT and I 3 fouled out.

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it sucked


once again, i probably can't do it, but.... take BIH outside the 'wall' of blockers and jump to shoot the 4 in.

-s

Andrew Manning
05-11-2006, 09:03 AM
I did have to come to the table with ball in hand on this --- I was already on ONE foul - I tried to place cue ball on rail to shoot the four ( as in picture )but was not allowed. Needless to say NO SHOT and I 3 fouled out.

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it sucked

You should have done this:

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%KB8\1%LB8\3%MC1[3%NB6\1%OB7\2%PH1H5%UD2H3%VE2F6%WB8B8%XC3C5
%YC9D6%ZD1D9%[E9G1%\G1G9%]D6F6%^C8F5
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Leaving this:

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%AC2\1%BC2\0%CC0[4%DB5B2%ED0D4%FE7D3%Ga7U7%H]9F3%ID6F2%JB6[5
%KB8\1%LB8\3%MC1[3%NB6\1%OB7\2%PD1I8
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Black-Balled
05-11-2006, 09:14 AM
Re: Manning's solution- what would the point of that be? Hope the opponene can't run out?. EDIT- I HOPE IT IS 9B! Mannings solution puts you on 2 fouls and does not improve the outlook...

Here is the real shot! Shoot the 5 into the 4, pocketing it, as suggested by Manning, but let 5 roll up behind6 so that it can't be made w/ BIH. I believe that there will be room to hit the 5 on the next shot (w/ BIH), but the 9's location will present some difficulty towards sending the CB up table...

Here is the shot after "what you shoulda done":
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9BallBust-O
05-11-2006, 09:17 AM
i may have gone for something like that. I know I tried to mess it up for him but that put me on 2 - and im not sure of the exact lay out but left me tuff. Andrew - as always a good eye!!

Black-Balled
05-11-2006, 09:21 AM
i may have gone for something like that. I know I tried to mess it up for him but that put me on 2 - and im not sure of the exact lay out but left me tuff. Andrew - as always a good eye!!

No No No!

Don't be afraid to go from 1 foul w/ no shots to 2 fouls w/ the chance of a shot!

9BallBust-O
05-11-2006, 09:21 AM
blackballed.... nice because I would of taken the 2nd foul but chances are Id get to the 5 somehow next shot

Black-Balled
05-11-2006, 09:23 AM
blackballed.... nice because I would of taken the 2nd foul but chances are Id get to the 5 somehow next shot

Now you got it! That is progress!

9BallBust-O
05-11-2006, 09:25 AM
Blackballed - if I was feelin CRAZY i may have jacked up drilled the cue and maybe pocket the 9 - drawin back into it - doubt it cause thats not even close to a good idea but if Im feelin desperate enough

Black-Balled
05-11-2006, 09:29 AM
Well, if you are gonna go around mad at your money, then just surrender and play the next game. If you want a chance to win (pretty slim tho), I think my option is the best.

9BallBust-O
05-11-2006, 09:34 AM
yeah it is a very good option - sometimes when Im at the end of my rope and gettin frustrated I throw in the towel by doing some JACKA$$ shot - I know its wrong.

tom haney
05-11-2006, 10:39 AM
I've always lived by the saying: "there's always a shot".

Does everyone agree that this is true or can you think of any situation where there is "no shot" (to either get safe or make a ball)?

Well, I've seen Efren have to take a foul and I don't
call that a shot.

time_is_now
05-11-2006, 10:43 AM
I've always lived by the saying: "there's always a shot".

Does everyone agree that this is true or can you think of any situation where there is "no shot" (to either get safe or make a ball)?
the only time there is no shot is when one puts themself in that situation...or an opponent does

time_is_now
05-11-2006, 10:44 AM
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there's always a shot. jump off the point and run 2 more rails to cut the 8 in :p

-s
how did one get in that situation????? the SHOT was the one before this one

Colin Colenso
05-11-2006, 11:05 AM
I've always lived by the saying: "there's always a shot".

Does everyone agree that this is true or can you think of any situation where there is "no shot" (to either get safe or make a ball)?

Clearly there are situations on a table where you have all but lost the game save for a miracle or extreme incompetence from your opponent.

But in the great majority of situations I do think there is always a shot, and that believing that is very valuable as a player.

In my earlier playing years I didn't see it this way. When the balls ran badly I would begin to feel that the game was treating me unfairly. This would cause me to play poor shots or attempt hard low percentage shots. And the bad runs, unlucky kiss outs etc would continue.

Later I began to believe that if I thought hard and clear and executed with skill and focus that I could climb out of any position. Even when the odds were 90-10 against me in a situation, instead of taking a wild shot, I'd focus on it, look for ways to improve my chances of getting a bit of good fortune, execute with a clear intention....and amazingly, a lot of times the luck either comes on that shot or a shot or two later something weird happens to the opponent's position that puts me back in with a chance.

So the moral is to never give up. Play at 100% on each shot and look for the best shots to play. The player who works smarter and harder at the table almost always gets the end result.

Smartness here includes your accumulated skill and knowledge of the game. So a C level player, no matter how hard he works, does not have the knowledge to make his work valuable enough against a much higher rated player.

So what TheOne is saying, I feel is a very important factor in mental approach. There is a shot there on the table that needs to be found. Find that shot and execute it well. Do this and nearly always the opponent will have to dig pretty deep to finish the frame.

Have you ever noticed how when you play a better player that the finishing patterns often seem to play out tricky, but against a mug you seem to get a lot of easy outs?

rackmsuckr
05-11-2006, 11:20 AM
I always think there is a shot, other than extreme situations, like where they hang the 8 in 8ball and I am frozen to one of my balls with no way to get to any of mine or behind them.

9BallBust-O
05-11-2006, 11:21 AM
Yeah I didnt even think of that - man it would be harder to get hooked like that on the 9 than it would be to get out of that hook.

pete-biker
05-11-2006, 11:37 AM
It's kind of like the saying "does a tree falling make a sound if nobody is there to hear it?", "is a shot always there if there is nobody there to execute it?"


Sorry, wrong saying. It's more like the saying "is man always wrong if there is no woman to hear him speak":D

cuetechasaurus
05-11-2006, 03:13 PM
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YOU ARE ON TWO FOULS. MUAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Cornerman
05-11-2006, 04:04 PM
I've always lived by the saying: "there's always a shot".

Does everyone agree that this is true or can you think of any situation where there is "no shot" (to either get safe or make a ball)?

It happens in 8-ball, but very rarely. It's what the stalemate rule is often (if it can be called 'often') used.

Also, somewhere recently I posted a 9-ball shot that was left after ... I missed and scratched or my opponent missed and scratched. I can't recall if I hit it or he did, but the long and short is that the lowest ball hung in the pocket, and another ball froze on it such that you couldn't hit the lowest ball with ball in hand.

Something like this:

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Fred

TheOne
05-11-2006, 04:16 PM
It happens in 8-ball, but very rarely. It's what the stalemate rule is often (if it can be called 'often') used.

Also, somewhere recently I posted a 9-ball shot that was left after ... I missed and scratched or my opponent missed and scratched. I can't recall if I hit it or he did, but the long and short is that the lowest ball hung in the pocket, and another ball froze on it such that you couldn't hit the lowest ball with ball in hand.

Something like this:

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Fred


Hi Fred, good post but maybe I should have clarified something, in the UK this type of position would be a re-rack, and position where you can't make a legal shot (eg the ball wont fit) is a re-rack (or it used to be lol)

Bob Jewett
05-11-2006, 05:09 PM
Hi Fred, good post but maybe I should have clarified something, in the UK this type of position would be a re-rack, and position where you can't make a legal shot (eg the ball wont fit) is a re-rack (or it used to be lol)
At nine ball, the three foul rule comes in, so the game will end soon without a rerack. But I thought in the UK you got two visits after a foul. Aren't you allowed to move things around with your first shot?

Cameron Smith
05-11-2006, 06:15 PM
Even if you can't make a legal hit, there is always the option to give up ball and hand to tie up a few balls. Obviously not best idea if there are other options, but it can work as a last resort.

I saw Nik Van Den Berg do this once, it didn't work out for him though.