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View Full Version : The quality of Schon cues vs the quality of Joss cues


justinb386
09-09-2013, 11:02 AM
I am sorry if this question has been asked on here many times in the past.

I am just curious if the quality of Schon cues is really any better then the quality of Joss cues.

I think that maybe the only reason that Schon cues cost more is because of the cost of the inlays that they put in their cues.

I am curious if the overall quality of Schon cues is better then Joss cues, and if the number of cues that Schon makes are more limited?

I am just mainly curious if the quality of Schon cues is really that much better then the quality of Joss cues?

I wonder if it takes longer for Schon to make a cue then the time that it takes Joss to make a cue (of around the same type, and number of inlays).

I wonder how many cues leave Schons shop per year, and how many cues leave the Joss shop per year (if that is a factor on the price difference).

Thanks for any opinions, or facts about these questions that came to my mind, and sorry if these are stupid questions.

hang-the-9
09-09-2013, 11:07 AM
Yes, Schon cues are a bit better built, they feel more solid. I've played with both, although only a couple of Schons and never owned one, and they have a different hit than the Joss cues, they felt more substantial somehow.

As far as prices with inlays, both Joss and Schon have basic models with no inlays, compare the prices between those models. Schon cues are pricer at each level of cue.

West Point 1987
09-09-2013, 11:23 AM
I've had both...both are excellent, but Schon is a cut above. Better fit and finish and more consistent between models. Schons all hit the same, good solid hit, excellent tone, great balance. Every Joss I've had hit different...not bad, usually very good, but different from cue to cue. Probably because most Schons are cored, mostly maple, Joss cues are all over the place in materials and construction. You won't go wrong with either.

Scherf
09-09-2013, 12:26 PM
Funny story, when I was in college (20 yrs or so ago) my roommate and I both had a Schon. Our other roommate bought a Joss. All I remember about that cue was that it had a terrible "ting" every time it struck the cue ball. I don't think he cared for the hit either. That was really my only experience with Joss up until about a year ago, when the roommate of mine that owned a Schon, bought a Joss. And now he loves that cue equally as well. Maybe the one 20 yrs ago was the odd ball in the bunch, but I know it just left a bad taste in my mouth......for whatever this is worth.

Pushout
09-09-2013, 12:38 PM
Sorry enough to use the search function for a question asked over and over and over again?


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hang-the-9
09-09-2013, 01:25 PM
Funny story, when I was in college (20 yrs or so ago) my roommate and I both had a Schon. Our other roommate bought a Joss. All I remember about that cue was that it had a terrible "ting" every time it struck the cue ball. I don't think he cared for the hit either. That was really my only experience with Joss up until about a year ago, when the roommate of mine that owned a Schon, bought a Joss. And now he loves that cue equally as well. Maybe the one 20 yrs ago was the odd ball in the bunch, but I know it just left a bad taste in my mouth......for whatever this is worth.

That ting sound I have heard in several Joss cues, it was almost like a badge of honor if you could get it to sound that way. Back in the late 80s and early 90s all the good players played with a Joss and the noobs with McDermotts.

Donny Lutz
09-10-2013, 09:28 AM
That ting sound I have heard in several Joss cues, it was almost like a badge of honor if you could get it to sound that way. Back in the late 80s and early 90s all the good players played with a Joss and the noobs with McDermotts.

All the good players?

I know that lots of good players and pros used Joss cues during those decades, but in my experience it was more on the east coast, where they were also using lots of Scruggs, Phillippi, and others. One of my favorite cues is a 1987 Joss.

In the midwest during those years it was Meuccis and Vikings, and then Schons in the '90s.

Players tend to like cues made in their part of the country.

justinb386
09-10-2013, 10:03 AM
Well, I just wanted to post my own questions that came to mind, so I am sorry if this thread bothers you.

Sorry enough to use the search function for a question asked over and over and over again?


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Scherf
09-10-2013, 11:22 AM
All the good players?

I know that lots of good players and pros used Joss cues during those decades, but in my experience it was more on the east coast, where they were also using lots of Scruggs, Phillippi, and others. One of my favorite cues is a 1987 Joss.

In the midwest during those years it was Meuccis and Vikings, and then Schons in the '90s.

Players tend to like cues made in their part of the country.

Funny you mention those cues in the Midwest. I live and was in college in Ohio. A bunch of guys in school had Meuccis, my first cue was a Viking, then like I said I moved to a Schon.

A lot of angry haters here. Don't worry about the haters.

West Point 1987
09-10-2013, 11:32 AM
I started playing pool as an obsession in about 1987...I had a McDermott D-9. You had two types of bangers in my area (first Georgia, then Louisiana): McDermott men and Meucci men...Ne'er the 'tween would meet. The road players all had Schons, vintage Adams, the occassional Szam. Some heavyweight players had Meuccis, too, and you'd see an occassional Scruggs or Joss West. Some heavy players in East Texas had Richard Black cues. It was a regional thing with custom cues, depended on where you were. I "graduated" to Joss after three McDermotts, had two then moved up to a custom (GEM) and finally a Schon. Now I'm a Carolina Custom guy for the time being. But tournaments in Georgia and Lousiana in the 80s were all McDermotts, Meuccis and the occassional Viking...at least among the pedestrian players. :smile:

hang-the-9
09-10-2013, 12:10 PM
All the good players?

I know that lots of good players and pros used Joss cues during those decades, but in my experience it was more on the east coast, where they were also using lots of Scruggs, Phillippi, and others. One of my favorite cues is a 1987 Joss.

In the midwest during those years it was Meuccis and Vikings, and then Schons in the '90s.

Players tend to like cues made in their part of the country.

Yes, you're right, I live in the Boston area, and that whole pool scene was Joss once you got to a C+ or B level hehe. The first "name" custom I have seen and learned about was Scruggs. There were some Meuccis around and they were admired because so many of the pros used them, along with Joss.

The pool room I was at always had catalogs of cues and I would spend a lot of time looking over them, I kept lusting after the Schon cues in my teens/early 20s, and also Tim Scruggs as that was the cue that one of the first A players I met played with. Funny thing is that once I could afford either of those, I never really went after getting them :o

mosconiac
09-10-2013, 12:30 PM
I've played with both since 1994-1995. The Joss had that "ting" I guess you would call it. More "vibrational feedback" others would call it. It was a higher deflection cue than the Schon. The Schon was more solid with correspondingly less vibration. I wouldn't say either of mine were better or worse built, but mine were on the lower end.

Tommy-D
09-10-2013, 01:52 PM
I've played with the same Schon for 22 years now. The only cues I've ever thought that outperformed it were either unaffordable at the time,or just unavailable. In other words,I wouldn't still be playing with it if I felt an available cue were head and shoulders better.

Up until I got it,I believed the most desirable cue on the planet was a Joss model 12,basically the same cue Mike Sigel played with in the mid to late 80's.

The cues Joss made back then were just BETTER than their current offerings.

I'm not dogging them at all,just the stuff they made back in the day hits and feels better to ME. Still a damn fine product,just not for me,at least without ivory ferrules.

Many people hear that healthy "ping" and think it's something negative,the cue is broken,etc. It's usually NOT.

The current Schons are just a step or 2 above a current Joss as far as playability. Resale value pushes Schon over the top. Tommy D.

scottjen26
09-10-2013, 01:54 PM
I would put Schon a cut above Joss, but a solid hitting Joss will feel very similar to a Schon.

I grew up playing in Milwaukee and was friends with Bob Runde's son in college, that was my first experience hitting with a Schon. I currently own two and have had them pretty much ever since, have also owned and sold several others. My playing partner, who was second in the state at the time, had a Joss and I could hit with his cue and it felt very similar to mine. It was a very simple model, so maybe less chance for inlays or other decorations to cause any sort of noise or negative feedback. I hit with a few others over the years, nothing negative even stood out to me.

I've probably hit with 25+ Schons, they are all very consistent, although there are subtle differences between them, mostly just due to the weight differences and the overall impact on the balance. Also differences between the Runde-era cues and the current cues, but again they are both very high quality, some people may prefer one over the other. You can't go wrong with an older or newer Schon, I just don't have enough experience with a larger sample size of Joss cues to be able to say one way or the other.
Scott

jwe711
09-10-2013, 03:47 PM
I got 2 Schicks, and a Mottey, that all have a MIGHTY "PING" everytime they touch the cue ball...

And, Man, can they play...

I like my Schon's and my Joss's, to be OLD...and I mean 25+ years old...they have a similar "PING"...!!!

To me the wood they had back then hit soooooo much better than the woods they have today...

I may be wrong about the wood...but I think most any of the older cues...have a stiffer hit...depending on the taper used by the builders...

(Just my 2 cents)

cheapcues.com
09-10-2013, 04:34 PM
Here are some close-ups. Which one looks better to you?

Based on my experience as far as sales volume Joss produces a lot more than Schon.

Jedivman
10-03-2017, 01:11 PM
I had a Very lengthy conversation about this last with a fellow lover of old Joss and Schon cues. Both of mine play amazing with very similar deflection. I personally feel the hit of the Joss is firmer and more my preference of feel. The Schon plays like a dream but a much softer hit. It boils down to what you prefer, I also feel the older cues play much better than any of the newer stuff by either manufacturer.

1987 Joss Gambler and 1992 Schon R12

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj235/jedivman1/20170930_154001.jpg

Straightpool_99
10-03-2017, 03:14 PM
Since everyone says Schons are very consistent, I'll offer my opinion even if I've only ever played with one Schon cue. They are very rare here, and everyone that has one uses ld shafts on them, I only got to try one with an original shaft. So the Schon is a very high quality cue, with nice inlay work and great fit and finish...but it's not so playable IMO. The deflection is huge and I don't really care for how it plays. I can't really explain it well in words, but the balance was a bit awkward for me and the taper didn't give me the feel I want. That is obviously a subjective statement, but it's my opinion and I'll stand by it. I really struggled to run balls in straight pool with that cue, which is very rare for me, as I can usually play decently with just about any cue.

On the other hand, even if I used to play only with ld shafts, I've still always played well with Joss cues. Something about them just fit the way I play. They've got a great hit, and the deflection characteristics are IMO better than the Schon. I don't think the build quality is quite up to Schon standards, but if I had to play for my life with only these two brands to choose from, I'd pick the Joss every time without any hesitation. The strange thing about them is that a lot of people prefer the older ones, but I quite like the new ones, playing wise.

JohnnyOzone
10-04-2017, 07:20 AM
It's almost impossible to beat the very early Joss cues for playability. I mean, you had Dan Janes, Bill Stroud, and even Tim Scruggs building the cues.

Having said that, Schon has always made a prettier cue. Their butts were always better looking and very well made.

As time went by, Joss cues lost some of their luster.

A Schon butt with a Predator shaft is a great combo

Back in the 80s, I greatly preferred the hit (and SOUND) and playability of a Joss over a Schon. Nowadays probably the opposite

Chopdoc
10-04-2017, 08:19 AM
Here are some close-ups. Which one looks better to you?

Based on my experience as far as sales volume Joss produces a lot more than Schon.

Of course...

And also one wonders what is inside....here are some close-ups. Which one looks better to you?

Joss stepped and threaded core:
https://josscues.com/the-joss-way/cue-making-the-joss-way-today/

Schon no core:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=452011&highlight=schon


No doubt both are great cues with pros and cons.

.

ddg45
10-04-2017, 11:24 AM
Sorry enough to use the search function for a question asked over and over and over again?


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Pushout...what a needlessly mean-spirited and unnecessary thing to say. Someone's asking for the opinions of others, to get some help, and this is what you contribute? "Better to be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."