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Blue Hog ridr
09-09-2013, 05:38 PM
Wow, two threads in one day for me.

As Chad Sens mentioned in my first thread, our only pool hall in Regina Saskatchewan is closing its doors after the coming weekend.

Its just the last one in a long line of halls that have closed over the last year or two.

The building is owned by the hall operator and also houses his wife's small furniture store. For the most part, the existing space will be used to expand the furniture store but there has been talk about the owner leasing out enuff space to hold 2 snooker tables and 6 nine footers.

The lease will be paid for with monthly membership fees.

I know there are a ton of smart members here so I put this one to you guys.

How would this work out for you. Some ideas on how you would implement the membership and the small amount of tables involved.

Her lies the potential for some in fighting and problems. It has been mentioned that $130 a month for dues. That equates to 13 hrs of table time.

We have some guys that are serious cheapies and they would do anything to ensure that they get their fair share, plus more.

Myself, the way I think, some months I may get only, for example, 8 hrs in and some months, maybe I will get more table time so to me, it will all come out in the wash at the end of the year. Many players won't see it like this, ( I know it for a fact) and like I said, here comes the potential problems.

So, with your guys input, what are some of the things that you would do, as far as rules, regulations etc to be enable this to work smoothly.

What are some of the potential problems that you might fore see, and what would you do to over come them.

I have nothing to do with this venture beyond maybe being a member when and if this happens but your input is valuable as this will give me a little extra information that I can use and pass on to those who will be putting this together.

There will be many things that they haven't thought of and your input can help greatly when speaking with the guys that are going to be doing this.

I appreciate your help on this one guys.

Lets hear your ideas whether they are positive and negative. At this point, anything will be of help.

Thanks.

vasilios
09-09-2013, 05:54 PM
Wow, two threads in one day for me.

As Chad Sens mentioned in my first thread, our only pool hall in Regina Saskatchewan is closing its doors after the coming weekend.

Its just the last one in a long line of halls that have closed over the last year or two.

The building is owned by the hall operator and also houses his wife's small furniture store. For the most part, the existing space will be used to expand the furniture store but there has been talk about the owner leasing out enuff space to hold 2 snooker tables and 6 nine footers.

The lease will be paid for with monthly membership fees.

I know there are a ton of smart members here so I put this one to you guys.

How would this work out for you. Some ideas on how you would implement the membership and the small amount of tables involved.

Her lies the potential for some in fighting and problems. It has been mentioned that $130 a month for dues. That equates to 13 hrs of table time.

We have some guys that are serious cheapies and they would do anything to ensure that they get their fair share, plus more.

Myself, the way I think, some months I may get only, for example, 8 hrs in and some months, maybe I will get more table time so to me, it will all come out in the wash at the end of the year. Many players won't see it like this, ( I know it for a fact) and like I said, here comes the potential problems.

So, with your guys input, what are some of the things that you would do, as far as rules, regulations etc to be enable this to work smoothly.

What are some of the potential problems that you might fore see, and what would you do to over come them.

I have nothing to do with this venture beyond maybe being a member when and if this happens but your input is valuable as this will give me a little extra information that I can use and pass on to those who will be putting this together.

There will be many things that they haven't thought of and your input can help greatly when speaking with the guys that are going to be doing this.

I appreciate your help on this one guys.

Lets hear your ideas whether they are positive and negative. At this point, anything will be of help.

Thanks.

Find you 10 anchor members for 160 a month for 12 months.This is a one year deal that carries a privilege for first shot at being a anchor the next year. Guarantee no table time! These anchor members decide the fate of sub members.Sub members are recruited for 60 a month and 2 dollars a hr table time. Anytime you sign a sub the 60 is split up for 6 to each anchor.

bill

Nostroke
09-09-2013, 05:59 PM
Wow, two threads in one day for me.

As Chad Sens mentioned in my first thread, our only pool hall in Regina Saskatchewan is closing its doors after the coming weekend.

Its just the last one in a long line of halls that have closed over the last year or two.

The building is owned by the hall operator and also houses his wife's small furniture store. For the most part, the existing space will be used to expand the furniture store but there has been talk about the owner leasing out enuff space to hold 2 snooker tables and 6 nine footers.

The lease will be paid for with monthly membership fees.

I know there are a ton of smart members here so I put this one to you guys.

How would this work out for you. Some ideas on how you would implement the membership and the small amount of tables involved.

Her lies the potential for some in fighting and problems. It has been mentioned that $130 a month for dues. That equates to 13 hrs of table time.

We have some guys that are serious cheapies and they would do anything to ensure that they get their fair share, plus more.

Myself, the way I think, some months I may get only, for example, 8 hrs in and some months, maybe I will get more table time so to me, it will all come out in the wash at the end of the year. Many players won't see it like this, ( I know it for a fact) and like I said, here comes the potential problems.

So, with your guys input, what are some of the things that you would do, as far as rules, regulations etc to be enable this to work smoothly.

What are some of the potential problems that you might fore see, and what would you do to over come them.

I have nothing to do with this venture beyond maybe being a member when and if this happens but your input is valuable as this will give me a little extra information that I can use and pass on to those who will be putting this together.

There will be many things that they haven't thought of and your input can help greatly when speaking with the guys that are going to be doing this.

I appreciate your help on this one guys.

Lets hear your ideas whether they are positive and negative. At this point, anything will be of help.

Thanks.

Sorry solving that situation could take 10 pages. If you could rent a small place and stick 2 of the tables in there and get 4-5 solid guys to go in with you, that might work an im assuming the rent will be cheap.

Blue Hog ridr
09-09-2013, 06:24 PM
Thanks Vas, that sounds like a viable option. After all, there has to be someone at the top that makes the decisions. Sounds like a good start.

No Stroke, after reading a couple of threads here many years ago where someone had did that, that was one option that I had brought up. And under the proper circumstances, that would work very well.

Real estate in our small city is on a boom at the moment and there is no cheap space just hanging around that agencies would give their left arm to lease out. At the moment, doing it this way would prove to be costly.

If it flies, the space in the old hall is the best way. I was looking for advice to pass on in the form that Vas has provided. No matter what, there has to, or should be an executive committee that over sees the general membership. Otherwise, too many Chiefs and not enuff Indians.

dawgcpa
09-09-2013, 07:02 PM
Sorry to hear about your pool hall closing. This post is perfect timing because I'm thinking of doing the same thing close to my house. I'm checking space now but I think I can get it cheap. I'm thinking about keeping things very small with only 2 tables and no more than 5 members. I'll be following this thread to learn.

The problem I see is keeping up with the accounting and paying the bills. It is going to end up being a royal pain in the arse for someone to keep up with who has paid, who hasn't and keeping the bills paid. I'm thinking about a general upfront charge like a country club so that I can get a few grand in the bank as a cushion.

Good luck with everything.

Maniac
09-09-2013, 07:14 PM
I know you probably know this, but you had better get the members' money ahead of time or have them sign contracts (which still might not get you paid-up).

Good luck with your venture!!!

Maniac

iusedtoberich
09-09-2013, 07:55 PM
Just some random thoughts. Note, I'm just a player, with no business experience running a pool hall...

1. Why did the existing room close? The reason I ask is how busy was it? You mention some of the members would be hogging the tables in the new proposed club, but if the existing pool room closed because it was always empty, then even with a few hogging guys, there should still be plenty of tables available if you have 6 + 2 tables. (I think).

2. Definitely money up front. You need solid guys with jobs. Not bums. Pool players are the most unreliable creatures on the planet. If they swear on their mother's grave they will be in with you and pay the monthly fee, that means they will abandon you at first chance. Maybe its different in Canada, I don't know. And treat it like an apartment rental, up front is first and last month, plus a refundable security deposit. If they quit, they must give 60 days notice, to give you time to find a replacement member. If notice is not given, you keep security deposit. Better yet have them pay 6 months or a year in advance.

3. If by chance it grows super successful, and you are always filled with members, you can probably find a cheap iPad app to have the members sign into to make it fair to everyone who gets to play. There will be peak times and off peak times. I think on off peak times where the tables are empty, let people come in all day every day, with no limitation. But in the evening after work, if there becomes a table limit, then let the app sort out who has played the least, and let them have priority.

4. Have some sort of structure. An elected president, or maybe the current building owner since he seems to be into pool and would probably be a part of this. Have a quarterly meeting to discuss new ideas or issues that come up. Have a vote to settle them. Keep current issues and announcements posted on a bulletin board in the room.

5. Decide if you want paying member to have a voting power, or only the owner of the space does. You could do it either way.

6. You must set up a preventative maintenance schedule. Maybe have the members alternate who does it, or hire someone to do it. This is stuff like cleaning the balls, tables, bathroom, floor, tightening rail bolts, etc. Also a cloth fund.

I Got Lucky
09-09-2013, 10:12 PM
Perhaps someone who plays at the hall has room on their property to build a 20 x 20 shed. The tables from the closing hall will be for sale so u can buy one and make a clubhouse with a bunch of guys. No rent that way.

Celophanewrap
09-09-2013, 10:41 PM
Just a thought, could you have different levels of memberships that might include different packages of table time? Are you considering and food or drink or merchandise? Is it a nice room with TV's and tall velvet players chairs, or a room with a few tables in it? Will the facility justify the cost of a membetship?

ridinda9
09-09-2013, 10:58 PM
You state that real estate is in a boom in your city, and all available spaces are being snapped up.
But. . . .this usually applies to the desirable first floor properties.
Back in "the day", it was common to navigate stairs to get to pool rooms.
Either up in the loft, or down in the basement, stairs usually equate to lower costs per square foot, and poolrooms require copious square footage.
Just a thought, and hope you guys work out a place to play!

Blue Hog ridr
09-10-2013, 02:03 AM
Dawg, good luck with your venture. I hope it works out for you guys as well.

Yeah, the old, I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a game of pool played today. Tonight, I hear that it will be limited membership so the people, if lucky to be first on the list will have to keep up with the monthly dues.

You get the excuses, this or that happened, I'll catch up with you next pay day. That sort of thing. They will have to be paid up or your late membership will go to the next waiting person on the list. And ya just know that is going to happen.

Ridin, we have what we call, The Old Ware House District. The last hall that closed was due to the fact that the owner renovated the second floor hall for office space. There was more money in that than lease for the hall.

It seems that the second floors of the old ware houses have become very popular for office space in the last while. That and split up for condos. Law firms and Architects are snapping them up as fast as they become available.

In our actual industrial area, that at one time had a lot of vacant space isn't that way any longer.

My first suggestion was thinking that with a bunch of pool players, we have a lot of carpenters, dry wallers, painters etc and that if everyone chipped in, it wouldn't be hard to renovate a dilapidated floor or building somewhere but there just isn't anything.

At this time, I haven't an idea of how many people they are considering for the limited membership. I do know that depending on how they decide to choose people for membership, that some will feel left out and that will cause a little discention.

If they are planning 2 snooker tables and 6 9 footers, they will have to have enuff players to pay for the lease but not that many that no one will get enuff table time to make them happy.

The guys that are doing this are snooker players and I have a slight feeling that the rest of the members are going to be subsidizing the snooker players.

The one fellow that works there did hear a bit more but he didn't want to let on what he did know or heard so far on account that a certain amount may be hear say and not concrete.

He did admit that from the little he did know that there wasn't enuff space to hold that many tables and figured that it wouldn't last long without a certain amount of 9 footers. That is how I came to the assumption that the members may be just subsidizing the snooker players.

This coming weekend is going to be the last Hurrah so to speak so maybe there will be a little more info from the guy who is working with the owner.

I may or may not be included in the first round of membership. There will be a lot of us. I play 2 to 3 nights a week on bar tables for league so will just resign myself to knowing that there might not be any 9 footers in my life any longer.

I'm sure that in the long run all of us will figure something out or just be glad that there are some decent bar tables to play on.

Our league OP had mentioned plans for a small hall at some point in the future with a lot of sponsored teams out of the hall so it is a possibility that he may act sooner than later on this one. I am on the league committee but haven't touched base with the OP as I was out of town.
I will pick his brain on this one the first chance I get in the next week or so. The league OP has a dry wall/painting business which is doing great and he does decent money on his bar tables so don't know how thin he wants to spread his time at this point.

Scaramouche
09-10-2013, 07:01 AM
How long a lease could you get?

Create an incorporated not-for profit-organization.
Create the bylaws under which the organization will operate.

Get participants to come up with the full amount of rent for the length of the lease, Call it a debenture.
In Ontario these things are subject to sales tax.
Now the lessor will have assurance that this thing will not fail.
The value of the debenture is reduced each year by the cost of the lease.
When the lease expires, the debenture is zero.

Debenture holders can withdraw from the group, but cannot get the debenture balance back unless there is a new member coming in as a replacement.

You can charge annual dues to cover the operating costs.
You can charge initiation fees if there is a demand.

How many participants can you round up using this scenario?
How much would the debenture be, based on this number?
Would the participants have the talent and inclination to help operate such an organization?
Is it viable?

This is the basic stucture of many non-profit clubs.
Basically, the members have to take ownership and responsibility for the operation.
Those who won't should join a league where someone is paid to do the work and book table time.

Ghosst
09-10-2013, 08:47 AM
I thought about doing the same thing here, running a private club with a pair of Diamonds and a Gabriel's billiard table. Then I realized I would have to keep an eye on it 24/7 like any small business and I just don't have the time or energy to chase people for fees that only cover expenses.

In the end I chose to visit our local hall until the day it closes. If it does, I'll just put a table in the garage.

rayjay
09-10-2013, 09:14 AM
Assuming one owner as manager:
Founding Members (first 10) - 10% discount on annual dues pd. annually up front
Regular Members - full annual dues pd. annually up front
Guests - hourly table time or daily rate
Food & Drink = profit
No refunds
:D

DaveK
09-10-2013, 09:35 AM
.... too many Chiefs and not enuff Indians.

In Regina ???? :confused: ....... :groucho: ....... :duck:

Sorry to hear about the closing Terry.

One idea. Perhaps occasional players, like out-of-towners such as myself, might be offered an inexpensive (and lesser priviledged) membership.

Good luck my friend.

Dave

JoeyA
09-10-2013, 09:55 AM
Perfect time to start a private billiard club.

Get a consensus from the people at this pool room before it closes to see if there is enough people to put up the dough to start one.

JoeyA

allanpsand
09-10-2013, 10:05 AM
Keep it simple - vending machines for drinks and snacks.

Blue Hog ridr
09-10-2013, 11:30 AM
All great advice so far. Many things to consider as its not just cut and dried easy.

Table time or scheduling is a huge factor. Open times will be something to consider. Will someone be present to supervise or will everyone have a key and can go 24/7. And hope that members can and will police themselves accordingly if they can be left alone.

There also lies the next possibility to abuse the privileges. People may be inclined to bring in non member friends later in the night if they figure no one will catch them.

Yes, pool players can be a tricky bunch.

I doubt a liquor license will be involved altho there might be a fridge and we might be able to bring in our favorite drinks if we are respectful about it. Most of the players aren't huge drinkers so a couple of beer brought in won't hurt anyone. Thats my thoughts on drinks anyway and the owner may have a different opinion on it as it is still his premises.

We have quite strict rules re alcohol so other than just doing it and not getting caught is about the only option. If it turns into a After Hours Speak Easy and the wrong people get wind of it, there might be a late night knock on the door.

Thanks so far for offering suggestions as I will keep these in mind when seeing how this is going to work out. As I mentioned, I will probably get filled in a bit more on details this weekend.


I think its a good idea that someone is trying to keep a small part of the hall going for us and I like to help out in matters as this, but if I am not on the first round members list, it will be out of my mind anyway. I have a ton to do at this time helping our League get up and running so will keep busy. There are many players that will be interested and most likely be considered before myself.

So, if I am not considered at this time for a membership, there will be no hard feelings and I will wait my turn for a go on the nines again at a later date.

Blue Hog ridr
09-11-2013, 07:10 PM
Anything in between that depends on cooperation and fair play will be doomed by those who will want more than their money's worth and think only of themselves.

Not negative at all Bob. My thoughts exactly as yours.

Something like this will take a certain amount of cooperation and fairness on everyone's part or it can fall apart quickly with complaints and whining. There are a couple of whiners in the bunch as always.