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View Full Version : Help!! Advice Needed. Bought LD Shaft And...


el_h3fe
09-10-2013, 08:32 AM
Am having lots of trouble. I have a pechauer jp19-L and was using the regular full 13mm standard shaft that came with it. Upgraded to an OB classic Pro which is 11.75mm. I really wanyed just the classic or any ob/predator ld shaft that was 12.5 or 12.75mm whichever size they come in but not this one because its a huge huge diameter jump.

My question is this... What recommendations can anyone make to help me get used to this shaft? I've only had it for a few days and shot with it for less than an hour but I'm missing everything. I know it takes time and no one can tell me something that will instantly make me better but is there anything I can do to help myself to learn to use this shaft or...

Should I just look for a low deflection shaft with a bigger diameter? Didn't really want to spend the money on another shaft and then have this one just sitting around. Anyone got anything to help me? I would seriously appreciate it.



Thanks,
Justin B.

Kim Bye
09-10-2013, 08:39 AM
You need to work on improving the accuracy of your stroke.
Get a practice ball and work on hitting center ball.
The Jim Rempe practice ball is a great tool for this.

spliced
09-10-2013, 08:49 AM
Take a couple of pictures and post your shaft for sale or trade for the LD shaft you want here on AZ. If the small diameter bugs you that much it will probably continue to bother you. Sell or trade the one you have and get the one you want.

ENGLISH!
09-10-2013, 08:55 AM
Do you shoot with english...on purpose? If so, it might take a few sessions to adapt to the less cue ball squirt.

If you are a center hitter, you may have been actually hitting a bit off to one side before & was compensating for the cue ball squirt all along which is now less than before.

That is one reason I don't advocate a center hit style of play. IMO It's nearly impossible for anyone to hit the exact center of the cue ball consistently

You have to know where you are hitting the ball & not where you think that you are.

Do the low center hit test with speed straight up to the head rail & see if the ball comes back to the tip.

Proceed from there accordingly.

Good Luck & Best Wishes,
Rick

Roger Long
09-10-2013, 09:14 AM
Am having lots of trouble. I have a pechauer jp19-L and was using the regular full 13mm standard shaft that came with it. Upgraded to an OB classic Pro which is 11.75mm. I really wanyed just the classic or any ob/predator ld shaft that was 12.5 or 12.75mm whichever size they come in but not this one because its a huge huge diameter jump.

My question is this... What recommendations can anyone make to help me get used to this shaft? I've only had it for a few days and shot with it for less than an hour but I'm missing everything. I know it takes time and no one can tell me something that will instantly make me better but is there anything I can do to help myself to learn to use this shaft or...

Should I just look for a low deflection shaft with a bigger diameter? Didn't really want to spend the money on another shaft and then have this one just sitting around. Anyone got anything to help me? I would seriously appreciate it.



Thanks,
Justin B.

I'm with you. My biggest complaint against LD shafts has always been that they are too skinny. I know they have to be that way in order to be flexible for cutting down on cue ball deflection, but I don't like the "slop" it creates in my bridge hand.

If you want to keep the shaft, I guess you could work on tightening your bridge, and then work on aiming differently for the difference in deflection.

Roger

ENGLISH!
09-10-2013, 09:22 AM
What joint is the shaft? is it new or used? Maybe we can do a swap?

Please PM me the details. I'm interested in an OB Pro or a McDermott i3.

ENGLISH!
09-10-2013, 09:27 AM
I'm with you. My biggest complaint against LD shafts has always been that they are too skinny. I know they have to be that way in order to be flexible for cutting down on cue ball deflection, but I don't like the "slop" it creates in my bridge hand.

If you want to keep the shaft, I guess you could work on tightening your bridge, and then work on aiming differently for the difference in deflection.

Roger

Mr. Long,

Don't know if you know or not but...

Predator has the Fat Shaft & OB has the XL, both at 13mm.

Both the OB Classic & the McDermott i2 that I have are very solid feeling at 12.75 with no whippy feeling.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

JohnPT
09-10-2013, 10:21 AM
Do you shoot with english...on purpose? If so, it might take a few sessions to adapt to the less cue ball squirt.

If you are a center hitter, you may have been actually hitting a bit off to one side before & was compensating for the cue ball squirt all along which is now less than before.

That is one reason I don't advocate a center hit style of play. IMO It's nearly impossible for anyone to hit the exact center of the cue ball consistently

You have to know where you are hitting the ball & not where you think that you are.

Do the low center hit test with speed straight up to the head rail & see if the ball comes back to the tip.

Proceed from there accordingly.

Good Luck & Best Wishes,
Rick

Never heard of anyone grouping players into as center ball players or english players. :scratchhead:

sfleinen
09-10-2013, 10:55 AM
Never heard of anyone grouping players into as center ball players or english players. :scratchhead:

Yep, and I know I have problems "hitting the exact center of the cue ball" as well. In fact, I miss it every time, because the cue ball's mass around the center gets in the way every time. I think I need to mount an actively-operating Dremel tool with a 1.125" long drill bit onto the tip of my cue to hit the exact center. But won't that change the deflection characteristics of my cue?

:p
-Sean <-- loves to rile the pedantologists here on AZB ;)

Nuts4Tascarellas
09-10-2013, 11:03 AM
What collar is on your butt? I have a brand new Katana LD shaft with a black collar that is a larger diameter at the tip than yours. It has a nice pro taper and I had a new Moori tip installed. I switched cues and don't need it anymore. Let me know if you are interested.

iusedtoberich
09-10-2013, 11:15 AM
When you get a new shaft that plays significantly different than what you are used to, and decide you want to keep it, you must relearn all your shots.

Set up an easy shot, maybe use a drop of spit or a hole reinforcer to make it repeatable. Then shoot that shot several times in a row until you get it. Then vary the shot slightly by changing the desired CB english and subsequent position. Shoot the new shot untill you get it. Then change the shot slightly again and repeat.

Keep doing this for different cut angles, different position paths, different speeds, and different distances. You will eventually learn the new shaft.

I think the biggest part of this is to keep repeating the shot, and change it slightly to the next variation. As opposed to just throwing balls on the table and shooting each random shot that presents itself. Doing it systematically I hypothesize will let you learn your new shaft quicker. Maybe even completely learn it in one day, especially if you are an experienced player already.

ENGLISH!
09-10-2013, 11:19 AM
Never heard of anyone grouping players into as center ball players or english players. :scratchhead:

It's not me doing the 'grouping'.

I did a poll awhile back & it showed that about 50% played center axis only or center axis with english only occasionally to change the cue ball path when coming of a rail.

I, like CJ Wiley, only try to hit the center axis very rarely.

hang-the-9
09-10-2013, 12:36 PM
Am having lots of trouble. I have a pechauer jp19-L and was using the regular full 13mm standard shaft that came with it. Upgraded to an OB classic Pro which is 11.75mm. I really wanyed just the classic or any ob/predator ld shaft that was 12.5 or 12.75mm whichever size they come in but not this one because its a huge huge diameter jump.

My question is this... What recommendations can anyone make to help me get used to this shaft? I've only had it for a few days and shot with it for less than an hour but I'm missing everything. I know it takes time and no one can tell me something that will instantly make me better but is there anything I can do to help myself to learn to use this shaft or...

Should I just look for a low deflection shaft with a bigger diameter? Didn't really want to spend the money on another shaft and then have this one just sitting around. Anyone got anything to help me? I would seriously appreciate it.



Thanks,
Justin B.

It will take weeks or longer to get used to playing with that shaft. I find that the OB shafts I tried were tougher to adjust to than the Predator or other LD shafts. Don't know why, but that's how it was for me.

You probably learned by instict where to aim when you use spin (or you hit off center by accident without meaning to), with an LD shaft you need to aim fuller as it will deflect less. So if you aimed .1 inch to the right of where you'd hit with center ball when you used right spin, try aiming with no adjustment or 1/2-1/4 as much.

CreeDo
09-10-2013, 12:38 PM
I use a classic pro, and for me it was easier. I have slightly pudgy fingers. Don't knock it, remember
when Fast Eddie's talking about Fats? Anyway closed bridges were a chore, and I absolutely
cannot make the cross finger bridge (http://www.billiardcoach.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/EfrenWithCue_IMG_0872BC.jpg). No air in there.
So I had to use a glove before.

Now I can make a closed bridge and not have a chafing problem on the skinny shaft.
I also feel like I can spear a really specific part of the cue ball, like if I need stun draw it's easy to see
the difference between hitting all the way to the bottom of the cue ball, and only halfway.

Wish I had more concrete info for you but for now try the bridge pictured above if you feel
like there's too much air in your closed bridge. That one should be quite snug.
Mostly just spend time using it. I can't imagine this bugging you forever.
If it does, these shafts are extremely popular, you can sell it and buy a fat shaft or something.

RRfireblade
09-10-2013, 12:44 PM
Really it only takes simple, basic observation and evaluation.

Pay serious specific attention to your misses, make note of any patterns that developed and adjust your aim/shot accordingly until your sighted back in.

Like any and all productive effective practice...it takes a conscious effort to evaluate, correct and improve. Or else your just wasting your time.

sfleinen
09-10-2013, 01:09 PM
Really it only takes simple, basic observation and evaluation.

Pay serious specific attention to your misses, make note of any patterns that developed and adjust your aim/shot accordingly until your sighted back in.

Like any and all productive effective practice...it takes a conscious effort to evaluate, correct and improve. Or else your just wasting your time.

I wholeheartedly concur. Remember when certain aiming system devotees stated the notion of "not knowing if a straight-in shot was truly straight in, or a few degrees off-angle (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2440413#post2440413)"? This notion of "not knowing if you're truly cueing the center-axis on the cue ball" is just as absurd.

It's very simple. IF you have good fundamentals, your head/eye position -- which should be in the correct place according to your good fundamentals, right? -- enables you to see if you're cueing center-axis on the cue ball. There's also an EXCELLENT training aid out there -- Joe Tucker's "Third Eye Stroke Trainer (http://seyberts.com/products/Third_Eye_Stroke_Trainer_w/_DVD-318-84.html)" -- that enables you to see if you have a habit of cueing off-center. You want to fix the reason why you're not seeing / cueing the center axis on the cue ball -- not make an excuse for it!

Some of those with wonky fundamentals would say, "why all the fuss with trying to find and cue center axis on the cue ball? I can't. So let's just revel in our inability to cue the ball on the center axis, and 'err' to one side, leveraging pocket slop?" Only in pool do we ever see that. You won't see that in any other cue sport.

-Sean

el_h3fe
09-10-2013, 06:11 PM
There are a few things I probably should have added. I do shoot closed bridge and no I do not always hit senter of the cue ball. I use english the majority of the time and know for a fact that a lot of the time I am off a little bit when I shoot a certain cut shut for example... my eyes naturally tell me that the center of that ball (or rather what I perceive as the center) is not really the center so I use spin to make up for this.

Because of my imperfect stroke I think it would be in my best interest to trade it for another ld shaft along the lines of a predator or ob 12.75mm ld shaft. I literally just got the shaft a few days ago and I've hit with it twice. There isn't a single nick or dent. And it isn't even slightly blue from chalk. I have chalked it. If anyone is interested in trading, I would be interested. Its a pechauer with the jp joint and the collar is the one pictured in this link: http://www.seyberts.com/products/Predator_Shaft_314_2_Pechauer_JP_Joint_Dashed_Coll ar-1277-378.html

I still appreciate all of the opinions and information. Feel free to keep posting them in caase a miracle occurs and I start shooting well, lol.

LAMas
09-10-2013, 07:59 PM
Lil Al Romero the cue maker advises that one sand the tip of the leather flat to hit the center of the CB more often if that is what you are attempting.:wink:

An open bridge is less affected by the shaft diameter.

naji
09-11-2013, 03:58 AM
Am having lots of trouble. I have a pechauer jp19-L and was using the regular full 13mm standard shaft that came with it. Upgraded to an OB classic Pro which is 11.75mm. I really wanyed just the classic or any ob/predator ld shaft that was 12.5 or 12.75mm whichever size they come in but not this one because its a huge huge diameter jump.

My question is this... What recommendations can anyone make to help me get used to this shaft? I've only had it for a few days and shot with it for less than an hour but I'm missing everything. I know it takes time and no one can tell me something that will instantly make me better but is there anything I can do to help myself to learn to use this shaft or...

Should I just look for a low deflection shaft with a bigger diameter? Didn't really want to spend the money on another shaft and then have this one just sitting around. Anyone got anything to help me? I would seriously appreciate it.



Thanks,
Justin B.

Watch your elevation on every shot, learn the cue at different elevation vs speed; with larger shafts the swerve is almost null at med to high speed but squirt is high, with small shafts you could see a swerve at high speed with minimal elevation because of accidental wrong tip contact point (even if you intend to shoot center) but squirt is almost nothing; CJ's TOI helps a lot.

Sealegs50
09-11-2013, 06:55 AM
You sound frustrated and may be suffering from buyer’s remorse. You need to remain open minded and want to make a new piece of equipment work for you. The bigger the change, the more patient you may need to be. We cannot always predict success, but we can usually predict failure. If your attitude is suffering, no new equipment will work for you.

Whenever I make changes, even as simple as a new tip, I start off playing center ball. Get used to playing with the new equipment and start adding small amounts of side spin to become accustomed to how the shaft, CB and OB respond. Be patient. Take time. Do not expect immediate miracles. Do not play with your old shaft. It takes a while to decide if the new shaft or tip or cue is right for you. A/B comparisons of good equipment are generally not fair. Each piece of equipment is likely to have distinct qualities. Something that immediately impresses you can often wear on you after extended experience. Even after becoming accustomed to new equipment, I can always go back to the older equipment and regain the feel after just a few strokes. After a while, you will naturally choose to play with one and won’t go back to the other.

Another point to consider is that some people believe that shafts and tips are subject to a break in period. AZB threads in the past have discussed the issue. From my impression of those opinions, those who believed there were differences tended to think that shafts get better with use. If the effect of aging is real, two sessions would not be enough to let the shaft break in.

I cannot say if you will like changing to a smaller tip. But there are a lot of great players who play with them. So they must be pretty good.

JMO. Good luck.

el_h3fe
09-11-2013, 02:13 PM
I value the opinions I have received and I agree with alot of things that have been said. Granted, I have only had the shaft for two days but it just seems that there has been information provided in some of these posts that makes me think that I may be one of those people that has a really rough time adjusting to this shaft.

For example, one person made mention of people who hit center ball and for those that naturally adjust to make the shot by using english. I am the type of person that adjusts a shot by adding spin to make the shot. I also shoot with a closed bridge almost all of the time and now I don;'t exactly how I should hold my bridge hand... My 13mm fit perfectly the way that I held it before and now I don't know if I should use the exact same bridge and hold it in the exact same place or not. If I do, then there is unoccupied space in there which will most likely cause alot of difficulty when trying to hit center ball or just simply trying to shoot a regular shot without english and being accurate... let alone trying a shot with english. I would hold it more firm but I don't know what consequeances there would be by holding it more firm either

Lastly, I find that since I taught myself to play (as alot of other people have done)... I have learned to do things a certain way which are not necessarily the "right" way. for example, my closed bridge draw is poor so I draw with an open bridge on a shot where I need to draw more than a foot or two. The way I hold my cue, how I stand, where I position my head, how my arms are bent, how far forward or back on the butt I am gripping, how far back my bridge hand sits from the cue ball... I may be doing it all incorrectly. I think that little things like this will also have alot to do with whether or not I am able to adapt to this shaft.

Though I may be doing alot of these things incorrectly, I have learned to play with a larger diameter shaft and in the 3 years I've been playing pool, I've managed to adapt pretty well by just watching others play and trying to mimmick(sp?) others.

**Sorry for the long post. I don't mean to rant after only having a few days of play with the shaft. I just think that there are some pretty valid concerns and I don't want to take the time trying to learn a shaft that may not have been the best choice for me.

By the way, is there an area of the forum that I may be able to post some videos of the things I feel I may be doing incorrectly? Such as showing a video of my stroke and getting some constructive criticism on what others may suggest I do to fix some of these things or possibly showing a few shots of me attempting my poor draw with closed bridge etc...

sfleinen
09-11-2013, 02:26 PM
[...]
By the way, is there an area of the forum that I may be able to post some videos of the things I feel I may be doing incorrectly? Such as showing a video of my stroke and getting some constructive criticism on what others may suggest I do to fix some of these things or possibly showing a few shots of me attempting my poor draw with closed bridge etc...

Try the "Ask the Instructor" forum, here:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78

Lots of folks post videos here, and receive great constructive feedback from instructors and non-instructors alike.

-Sean

Pidge
09-11-2013, 02:47 PM
The biggest change to my game since I was 6, almost 20 years ago was turning my head ever so slightly to the left. That happened around 15 years ago and gave me the real picture of what I was doing.

I could cue straight and hit where I lined up to hit, but where I lined up wasn't actually where I though I lined up. I was lining up slightly on the left of where I thought, and turning my head left, showed me that.

Use a striped ball, and cue down table with the stripe facing the direction you are cueing. Notice if the stripe doesn't stay vertical. If you are adding left english, turn your head to the left on the next try, the same applies if you are adding right spin. If that doesn't work turn your head to the right and do it. Eventually you will find a head position where you can see centre ball, and hit centre ball. I'm pretty sure if your stroke is decent you will cut your misses by 50%.

Good luck and happy cueing.

CJ Wiley
09-12-2013, 12:29 AM
It's not me doing the 'grouping'.

I did a poll awhile back & it showed that about 50% played center axis only or center axis with english only occasionally to change the cue ball path when coming of a rail.

I, like CJ Wiley, only try to hit the center axis very rarely.

Just on "slow roll" shots and "straight in" shots.

poolrod
09-12-2013, 03:17 AM
I like my ob break shaft, with a regular tip on it, nice and fat, and plays perfect.

el_h3fe
09-12-2013, 03:06 PM
Thanks for the info pidge. I will check and see if that helps anything but I think I am going to go ahead and get rid of the shaft. The reason is that a friend of mine has a pechauer with an ob shaft (the one with the wooden ferrule I forget if that's the 1 or the 2 off hand). Anyway... this one is 12.75 and I immediately started shooting and runing racks. I think it truly is simply the diameter and that I am just so used to the larger shaft that it just jives for me...

Now the only thing I need to do is try to find someone that may wanna trade. It'll probably take forever but I think this is the route I need to take. All of this info is invaluable though and I think I will try some of these techniques even with the larger shaft to help improve upon my technique.