PDA

View Full Version : 9-Ball World Championship $36k!?!?


CrownCityCorey
09-13-2013, 10:43 AM
Congratulations to my friend Thorsten Hohman on his second 9-World Championships! I am super happy for you!

...but to see the World Champioships pay $36,000! Back in 2004 when I played in Taiwan (Alex P. won that), 1st place paid $75,000. It's amazing to me how almost 10 years later, with the cost of living going up, that the prize money has been cut more that 50%.

Joe_Jaguar
09-13-2013, 11:05 AM
Maybe the Sheiks are hurting for money out there in the sand. :)
Now they will be hosting it for four more years.

mel_smOg
09-13-2013, 11:24 AM
it is pretty sad for pool, at least snooker guys got it right and increased payouts dramatically in the last few years (almost $400k for world title).
really hope pool officials will start increasing payouts for major championships

iusedtoberich
09-13-2013, 11:27 AM
Well, first place is only part of the picture. We need the total payout, total added, and entry fees to have an apples to apples comparison.

cleary
09-13-2013, 11:36 AM
I made way less than $36,000 this week too. Sucks...

bdorman
09-13-2013, 01:18 PM
A couple weeks ago I won our local 8-ball tournament and pocketed a whopping $40. Investment advisers came out of the woodwork to sign me up as a client.

Of course, tournament winnings are the chump change. I plan for the REAL MONEY to come from sponsorships and appearance fees.

Playin4Dinner
09-13-2013, 01:41 PM
Svb pocketed just 25k for his us open title last year, 50k for his us open title in 2007....

Highest I've seen the world title get up to was when daz beat wu in 2008 wpa world 10 ball for 100k.... Wu took home 40k for 2nd place....

hang-the-9
09-13-2013, 02:51 PM
Congratulations to my friend Thorsten Hohman on his second 9-World Championships! I am super happy for you!

...but to see the World Champioships pay $36,000! Back in 2004 when I played in Taiwan (Alex P. won that), 1st place paid $75,000. It's amazing to me how almost 10 years later, with the cost of living going up, that the prize money has been cut more that 50%.

That's what inflation gets you.

Oh, wait... :confused::rolleyes:

It should work the OTHER way, that's right, tough to figure out in this economy. I'm lucky I'm finally back making the same salary I was 10 years ago, if only the rest of my costs stayed the same :mad: Hm.. actually I am not even in a full time job, contracting, with no vacation time or other benefits. Whoo, go USA!

Bob Jewett
09-13-2013, 03:01 PM
Well, first place is only part of the picture. We need the total payout, total added, and entry fees to have an apples to apples comparison.
Here is what the website says. It looks like it pays pretty deep.

Champion 36,000 USD
Runner-up 18,000 USD
3rd ~ 4th 10,000 USD
5th ~ 8th 6,000 USD
9th ~ 16th 4,000 USD
17th ~ 32nd 2,500 USD
33rd ~ 64th 2,000 USD
65th ~ 96th 500 USD (loser of 2nd round in the loser's bracket of Stage 2)
TOTAL 250,000 USD

There are no deductions from prize money for sanction or taxation.
I think the entry fee was nominal and it is usually paid by the player's national federation.

(edit, add) The entry fee was $250 for 128 players. Unless the player goes 0-2 he gets at least $500 back.

ENGLISH!
09-13-2013, 03:25 PM
The Snooker payout comment made a question flash through my mind.

Snooker World Championship...one game.

Pocket Billiards...How many games? How many Championships?

I know it comes down to pocketing balls but how many variations do American players have to bonce back & forth between.

I think we need a structure that leads up to a year end National All Around Pocket Billiards Championship.

Then IF... it gets successful, can maybe then lead to a World All Around Pocket Billiards Championship.

Just a thought from out of nowhere & with no real thought to it.

JCIN
09-13-2013, 03:29 PM
Here is what the website says. It looks like it pays pretty deep.

Champion 36,000 USD
Runner-up 18,000 USD
3rd ~ 4th 10,000 USD
5th ~ 8th 6,000 USD
9th ~ 16th 4,000 USD
17th ~ 32nd 2,500 USD
33rd ~ 64th 2,000 USD
65th ~ 96th 500 USD (loser of 2nd round in the loser's bracket of Stage 2)
TOTAL 250,000 USD

There are no deductions from prize money for sanction or taxation.
I think the entry fee was nominal and it is usually paid by the player's national federation.

(edit, add) The entry fee was $250 for 128 players. Unless the player goes 0-2 he gets at least $500 back.

Paying this deep is ridiculous.

Pay the top 10% like poker. Make cashing mean something.

If they paid top 16 only that would of been $120,000 more to the top guys.

Simply by not paying out people who took home $2,500 or less.

Who the hell goes to a world championship and gives the littlest shit about $2500?

Joe_Jaguar
09-13-2013, 03:41 PM
Paying this deep is ridiculous.

Pay the top 10% like poker. Make cashing mean something.

If they paid top 16 only that would of been $120,000 more to the top guys.

Simply by not paying out people who took home $2,500 or less.

Who the hell goes to a world championship and gives the littlest shit about $2500?

You guys ought to go to Qatar next year and stream it. Have a camel burger and enjoy a burqua or two.

ENGLISH!
09-13-2013, 03:41 PM
PGA...make the cut get a check but if at the bottom you probably lose money for the week.

Who wants to go to work every day for the week then when the boss is handing out the checks he shakes your hand & says sorry.

The goal should be for every contestant to NET making money. I know it is not there now & I don't know if it will ever be that way, but that should be the goal.

The PGA should be the model. Unfortunately, pocket billiards is nearly a century behind golf in that regard.

westcoast
09-13-2013, 04:07 PM
Here is what the website says. It looks like it pays pretty deep.

Champion 36,000 USD
Runner-up 18,000 USD
3rd ~ 4th 10,000 USD
5th ~ 8th 6,000 USD
9th ~ 16th 4,000 USD
17th ~ 32nd 2,500 USD
33rd ~ 64th 2,000 USD
65th ~ 96th 500 USD (loser of 2nd round in the loser's bracket of Stage 2)
TOTAL 250,000 USD

There are no deductions from prize money for sanction or taxation.
I think the entry fee was nominal and it is usually paid by the player's national federation.

(edit, add) The entry fee was $250 for 128 players. Unless the player goes 0-2 he gets at least $500 back.

Has the payout always been broken down like this % wise? Is that the reason the top places are so relatively low or declined? If it has always paid out like this, then what is the reason for the decreasing overall pot? What's the solution, if any?

JCIN
09-13-2013, 04:12 PM
PGA...make the cut get a check but if at the bottom you probably lose money for the week.

Who wants to go to work every day for the week then when the boss is handing out the checks he shakes your hand & says sorry.

The goal should be for every contestant to NET making money. I know it is not there now & I don't know if it will ever be that way, but that should be the goal.

The PGA should be the model. Unfortunately, pocket billiards is nearly a century behind golf in that regard.

When I become king there will be a rule that anyone who compares pro pool to the PGA will have their house burned down.

<------ Raising dragons as we speak

markpatrick
09-13-2013, 04:22 PM
Hell I did better than the guys that came in 33rd place, just by staying home and going to work 5 days. With overtime I finished in 17th place... Not bad for a C player.:smile:

ENGLISH!
09-13-2013, 04:49 PM
When I become king there will be a rule that anyone who compares pro pool to the PGA will have their house burned down.

<------ Raising dragons as we speak

Golf was/is more of a rich man's game than pocket billiards.

The elder statesman of pocket billiards could have done something very similar to what the old golfers did.

Unfortunately they did not.

Hence, you have golf today vs pocket billiards today. As I said pocket billiards is nearly a century behind golf & multi, multi millions if not billions of dollars behind too.

They took two different roads way back when to different destinations.

bud green
09-13-2013, 07:37 PM
When I become king there will be a rule that anyone who compares pro pool to the PGA will have their house burned down.

<------ Raising dragons as we speak

You mean pool pool players aren't also in the middle of a playoff that pays 10 millions bucks to the winner?

If you take away SVB's earnings, what would the average of the other top ten US players income be for this year? 30k? 20K?

Johnnyt
09-13-2013, 08:36 PM
You mean pool pool players aren't also in the middle of a playoff that pays 10 millions bucks to the winner?

If you take away SVB's earnings, what would the average of the other top ten US players income be for this year? 30k? 20K?

Take Shane away and the next 10 average about 57k a year if my math is correct. Also this year still has 3 + months left. Johnnyt

gxman
09-13-2013, 08:47 PM
Take Shane away and the next 10 average about 57k a year if my math is correct. Also this year still has 3 + months left. Johnnyt

Top 10 U.S players is way way less. Sub 30K for U.S players.

Johnnyt
09-13-2013, 08:57 PM
Top 10 U.S players is way way less. Sub 30K for U.S players.

Yes, it's way less. Didn't think he meant just the U.S players. Johnnyt

JB Cases
09-13-2013, 09:24 PM
Paying this deep is ridiculous.

Pay the top 10% like poker. Make cashing mean something.

If they paid top 16 only that would of been $120,000 more to the top guys.

Simply by not paying out people who took home $2,500 or less.

Who the hell goes to a world championship and gives the littlest shit about $2500?

The players who have ZERO shot at winning it. They care about the $2500.

What it SHOULD be IMO is that each country sends their national champions and those players battle it out for the WORLD championships. As it is now ANYONE can go and play in the WC if they win a qualifier.

Make the people who will be world champions prove that they are the best in their countries first. Then pay out the top guy something like 300-500k.

Fantasies abound.

NYC cue dude
09-13-2013, 09:31 PM
The players who have ZERO shot at winning it. They care about the $2500.

What it SHOULD be IMO is that each country sends their national champions and those players battle it out for the WORLD championships. As it is now ANYONE can go and play in the WC if they win a qualifier.

Make the people who will be world champions prove that they are the best in their countries first. Then pay out the top guy something like 300-500k.

Fantasies abound.

Is going to be really watered down.
Sending one player from the,Philippines? How's that work. The other 5 are going to be replaced by the Chilean champ, the Afghani champ, the kazak champ?

Only the best players should compete, even if they turn out to be from just a few countries.

The $2500 guarantees that these top players who can't win, will at least come knowing they aren't going to lose money. I know the flight from NY to Qatar, with 2 stops, was $1200 round trip.

Tournaments have a choice in being top heavy or to pay deep. The top heavy events are attractive to the dozen or so guys that have a Bon a Fide chance of winning. The ones that pay deep appeal to,everyone.

JCIN
09-13-2013, 09:35 PM
You mean pool pool players aren't also in the middle of a playoff that pays 10 millions bucks to the winner?

If you take away SVB's earnings, what would the average of the other top ten US players income be for this year? 30k? 20K?

Things are changing in the US. You will see fewer "pros" but those that are there will make more money. Least thats how I see it shaking out.

The days of open tournaments relying on 96-128 man fields are about over. You will see things go more toward Matchroom style invitationals / TAR type matches. The players who have been grinding out events cashing top 16 and occasionally getting a 4th or 5th will have a hard road. (Not that its easy now).

One big problem IMO with pro pool in the US is there really is no such thing. There is no bar to entry. If you have 50 guys chopping up available money no one does very well. Split that money between 16 guys and it starts to look better. This also would make being a "pro" actually have some value.

Unless Bonus Ball comes back and saves the day first.

markpatrick
09-13-2013, 09:37 PM
Take Shane away and the next 10 average about 57k a year if my math is correct. Also this year still has 3 + months left. Johnnyt

The numbers you see are for their tournament winnings. Some tournaments have player auctions, that money is NEVER calculated in the winnings. The players get action as well, that income is not on the AZ Billiards $$$ winnings either.

Let's face it, pool is a game if you are good at you have to LOVE. Golf pays 10 to 20 times the money. It is not like there are 50,000 people clammering at the chance to watch these matches either.

So if you are a Pro pool player you need to eat a lot of ramen and drink water.

Cause the steak dinners are far and few between.:sorry::sorry::sorry:

JCIN
09-13-2013, 09:39 PM
Is going to be really watered down.
Sending one player from the,Philippines? How's that work. The other 5 are going to be replaced by the Chilean champ, the Afghani champ, the kazak champ?

Only the best players should compete, even if they turn out to be from just a few countries.

The $2500 guarantees that these top players who can't win, will at least come knowing they aren't going to lose money. I know the flight from NY to Qatar, with 2 stops, was $1200 round trip.

Tournaments have a choice in being top heavy or to pay deep. Themtopmheavy events are attractive to the dozen or so guys that have a Bon a Fide chance of winning. The ones that pay deep appeal to,everyone.

Its a world championship. If you cant find $2000 to go play the world championship of your sport then you probably shouldn't be allowed to in the first place.

Using the same payout method as Wild Bills Liqour Barn house league to keep the customers coming back just doesnt make a lot of sense to me.

Johnnyt
09-13-2013, 09:49 PM
Things are changing in the US. You will see fewer "pros" but those that are there will make more money. Least thats how I see it shaking out.

The days of open tournaments relying on 96-128 man fields are about over. You will see things go more toward Matchroom style invitationals / TAR type matches. The players who have been grinding out events cashing top 16 and occasionally getting a 4th or 5th will have a hard road. (Not that its easy now).

One big problem IMO with pro pool in the US is there really is no such thing. There is no bar to entry. If you have 50 guys chopping up available money no one does very well. Split that money between 16 guys and it starts to look better. This also would make being a "pro" actually have some value.

Unless Bonus Ball comes back and saves the day first.

I agree that starting with 16 man fields is the way to go. I also think they should play in a studio setting and play all events there. The money should be good enough for 16 players to move to that area. Also, I know that sponsors will be needed for this to work well, but I also think the entry fees should be between $500 and $1000 per event. Johnnyt

PS: Not trying to be a nut swinger here but I think the promoter should be TAR and CSI. They have a proven track record of doing things right and paying the players instantly.

JCIN
09-13-2013, 09:54 PM
I agree that starting with 16 man fields is the way to go. I also think they should play in a studio setting and play all events there. The money should be good enough for 16 players to move to that area. Also, I know that sponsors will be needed for this to work well, but I also think the entry fees should be between $500 and $1000 per event. Johnnyt

Sullivan has a good model with the Bigfoot events. If there was a way to get seven or eight of those with a year end points fund things would start to look a little better.

I think things are going to get really bad before anything like that happens though. A lot of people are just tired. Players, promoters, fans....I know I am.

(((Satori)))
09-13-2013, 09:55 PM
Its a world championship. If you cant find $2000 to go play the world championship of your sport then you probably shouldn't be allowed to in the first place.

Using the same payout method as Wild Bills Liqour Barn house league to keep the customers coming back just doesnt make a lot of sense to me.

The money should come from the sponsors and promotors. The players should only have to qualify.

JCIN
09-13-2013, 09:56 PM
The money should come from the sponsors and promotors. The players should only have to qualify.

I'm fine with that too.

But don't pay out 50% of the field.

Pfnatic
09-14-2013, 12:26 AM
it is pretty sad for pool, at least snooker guys got it right and increased payouts dramatically in the last few years (almost $400k for world title).
really hope pool officials will start increasing payouts for major championships

I think snooker works because people bet on it, legally. Betfair is a betting website that sponsors the world snooker championship and provides the huge million dollar prize fund. Without betting, the only people interested in watching the game would be the ones who play the game. I am guessing this might be one of the reasons that Barry Hearn does not want to touch the American market.

Joe_Jaguar
09-14-2013, 06:01 AM
I agree that starting with 16 man fields is the way to go. I also think they should play in a studio setting and play all events there. The money should be good enough for 16 players to move to that area.

No, they shouldn't play in a studio setting in one location at all. The "tour" should bring the players and events to the people. Have events in multiple cities, and not out in the middle of fricking no where either.

lfigueroa
09-14-2013, 08:17 AM
Things are changing in the US. You will see fewer "pros" but those that are there will make more money. Least thats how I see it shaking out.

The days of open tournaments relying on 96-128 man fields are about over. You will see things go more toward Matchroom style invitationals / TAR type matches. The players who have been grinding out events cashing top 16 and occasionally getting a 4th or 5th will have a hard road. (Not that its easy now).

One big problem IMO with pro pool in the US is there really is no such thing. There is no bar to entry. If you have 50 guys chopping up available money no one does very well. Split that money between 16 guys and it starts to look better. This also would make being a "pro" actually have some value.

Unless Bonus Ball comes back and saves the day first.



But who will choose/invite the 16?

All I knows is: numbers 17 on down and locked out are going to go ape shee-at-tow.

Lou Figueroa

CrownCityCorey
09-14-2013, 08:26 AM
Golf was/is more of a rich man's game than pocket billiards.

The elder statesman of pocket billiards could have done something very similar to what the old golfers did.

Unfortunately they did not.

Hence, you have golf today vs pocket billiards today. As I said pocket billiards is nearly a century behind golf & multi, multi millions if not billions of dollars behind too.

They took two different roads way back when to different destinations.

Billiards was the sport of Kings & only available to the wealthy as all of the following cost considerable money: real estate (for a table), table, & balls (Ivory).

In the modern day real estate is still a hurdle for the common man, but the solution became smaller tables & plastic balls.

Golf got a head start in the US by Andrew Carnegie (who loved the game). He built the first course & related social club. All his wealthy friends & those that wanted to be wealthy followed in kind.

To put the prize money in perspective, Rafael Nadal just earned 2.6mil plus a 1mil bonus (1st in US Open Tennis series) for his recent US Open Tennis Victory. 3.6mil in total. That is 100x the 9-Ball World Championships!

Also, isn't Qatar looking to represent themselves as a wealthy nation? They couldn't or needn't spare the extra pennies (relatively speaking) to make at least a six figure payout?

In that part of the world, Lamborghini's are like Hondas to us...

It's an embarrassment.

An for those thinking $36k is pretty good coin for a weeks work, it was no way near a weeks work to gain the skills necessary to compete at this level and these are not regular paychecks. This is the best in the world...

JoeyA
09-14-2013, 10:39 AM
Maybe the Sheiks are hurting for money out there in the sand. :)
Now they will be hosting it for four more years.

You know, the new hosts may just try to shine a little light on the WORLD 9 BALL CHAMPIONSHIPS next year and sweeten the pot.

JoeyA

book collector
09-14-2013, 02:59 PM
336th place paid about the same money in the Hold Em tournament I watched a week ago.