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View Full Version : ★★Qatar gets right to host World 9-Ball Championship For Four Years★★


cmbwsu
09-13-2013, 10:49 AM
What does everyone think about this? (http://dohapress.com/sports-news/27416-qatar-gets-right-to-host-world-9-ball-championship-for-four-years)
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greenroomms
09-13-2013, 10:55 AM
you mean the qatar in the middle east? cousin was stationed there in the air force and would not leave the base for fear of being killed because he is an american

arps
09-13-2013, 11:35 AM
everyone was disappointed that the live streaming match coverage of the finals was a failure.
to make it up to those thousands of disappointed pool fans all over the world, i suggest that they put all recorded videos of the 2013 WPC matches on youtube.

Joe_Jaguar
09-13-2013, 11:40 AM
everyone was disappointed that the live streaming match coverage of the finals was a failure.
to make it up to those thousands of disappointed pool fans all over the world, i suggest that they put all recorded videos of the 2013 WPC matches on youtube.

There shouldn't have been any expectations given how bad to non existent the streams have been out of the Mideast for these WPA championships the past few years. Maybe by 2017 they will have laid some cable out there in the sand dunes.

cmbwsu
09-13-2013, 11:53 AM
everyone was disappointed that the live streaming match coverage of the finals was a failure.
to make it up to those thousands of disappointed pool fans all over the world, i suggest that they put all recorded videos of the 2013 WPC matches on youtube.

One is up already (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCn3dFY3SLg&feature=em-uploademail)
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cmbwsu
09-13-2013, 11:56 AM
There shouldn't have been any expectations given how bad to non existent the streams have been out of the Mideast for these WPA championships the past few years. Maybe by 2017 they will have laid some cable out there in the sand dunes.

I'll finish that sentence for you: ..."and pulled some out of their a$#"

Scott Lee
09-13-2013, 12:08 PM
Bob...Sounds to me like there were some seriously "greased palms" involved in this...including moving the 'world HQ' for the WPA to Qatar. Next thing you know the Mosconi Cup will be moved there too. :frown:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

What does everyone think about this? (http://dohapress.com/sports-news/27416-qatar-gets-right-to-host-world-9-ball-championship-for-four-years)
294070

ENGLISH!
09-13-2013, 12:36 PM
I agree with Mr. Lee.

I hate to say this...but I think all American & European players should 'boycot' the events....unless they are moved to a more friendly neutral sight.

They can keep the rights but should be made aware of a boycot unless the events are moved.

Just my take, but I could be wrong.

cmbwsu
09-13-2013, 12:53 PM
Bob...Sounds to me like there were some seriously "greased palms" involved in this...including moving the 'world HQ' for the WPA to Qatar. Next thing you know the Mosconi Cup will be moved there too. :frown:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I didn't want to say it but I darn sure thought it ... :eek: thought!

Celtic
09-13-2013, 01:06 PM
Not all Middle Eastern states are considered equal. I know people who have worked in Qatar and it is a very safe place relatively speaking compared to other areas in the Middle East. The people I know who have worked and lived there have had no issues and do not cower in a camp behind armed guards, if a person went there and worked there and did that then that is more of an issue with their own issues then Qatar itself.

The reality is that the sport is going to go where A) the money is. If Qatar is willing to up the prize fund and make the event more profitable for the players then that is where it is going to be. B) where fan support is. Lets face it, America and Europe both do not support pool, they have not done so for decades, and as such why the heck would you put a WPC event on in either area so that you can have empty seats in the stands and paltry prize funds due to the lack of sponsor support?

The sport has to grow somewhere, America had decades of control over the future of pool and they screwed up and watched the sport spiral down into obscurity for decades without doing anything to stem the collapse. Now they lost it to other places that are doing the job of growing the sport better then America has been able to manage. That is how it goes.

If America wants the sport back they better start proving they can actually start doing things a lot better and atm pool in America is worse off then it has been in any of the previous decades, the payouts for what major events remain are less then they ever were while inflation has further reduced the actual true value of the payouts, the stands at all events are empty, the US Open 9-ball year after year delays payment and is threatened by the American run professional organization of boycott, and American players largely skip playing in WPA events as it is and few have a legitimate chance to even compete against a WPA field. Why in the hell would the WPA want anything to do with America atm for pool? It is a dead market full of old retired former pros and top end amateur players who torture local tours and rarely ever compete against true stacked professional fields, it has no sponsorship outside of pool related companies, and it has no in person fan support and normally has empty stands during the finals of the main events.

JoeyA
09-13-2013, 01:40 PM
I was just wondering if World Championships should be required to LiveStream their entire event.

Perhaps the WPA could offer a Live Stream package to the promoters for a fee of course.

JoeyA

ENGLISH!
09-13-2013, 01:47 PM
Celtic,

I don't know about safety for any American there. Personally, I would not go there & I have zero notoriety.

Almost all of what you say is true. If I were SVB, I'd boycot & then throw out a challenge to the winner to play in NYC for hopefully a televised event.

That's just me & as I said, I have zero notoriety.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

Joe_Jaguar
09-13-2013, 01:56 PM
I was just wondering if World Championships should be required to LiveStream their entire event.

Perhaps the WPA could offer a Live Stream package to the promoters for a fee of course.

JoeyA

You would think by this point in time the WPA would mandate it to bring some viewership to the event. I could understand if a local network were to pay for rights, but at the very least you could stream other tables and or have a streamer on site to stream the matches live if the TV company won't.

naji
09-13-2013, 02:31 PM
I agree with Mr. Lee.

I hate to say this...but I think all American & European players should 'boycot' the events....unless they are moved to a more friendly neutral sight.

They can keep the rights but should be made aware of a boycot unless the events are moved.

Just my take, but I could be wrong.

Rick,
Qatar, Dubai, UAE are much safer than any other country on earth, Everyone in these countries have one mission, make money, go vacation for two months and back at it. Mainly because you cannot own guns in these cities, and so many none native live and work their. Almost all big US companies have branches their, and one of the biggest US military bases are in Qatar.

ENGLISH!
09-13-2013, 02:55 PM
Rick,
Qatar, Dubai, UAE are much safer than any other country on earth, Everyone in these countries have one mission, make money, go vacation for two months and back at it. Mainly because you cannot own guns in these cities, and so many none native live and work their. Almost all big US companies have branches their, and one of the biggest US military bases are in Qatar.

Mr. Naji,

I understand what you say, but what is safe today can be a hell hole tomorrow morning given the relative location.

What you speak of, making money, is Capitalism, which is what we represent & what many in the region have been brain washed to despise. Why do you think we have one of the largest military bases there?

Law abiding citizens are never a threat. It's the law breakers that can kill you...& it only takes one.

I hope you can see my point.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

Celtic
09-13-2013, 02:57 PM
You would think by this point in time the WPA would mandate it to bring some viewership to the event.

I agree with that. It is mind boggling that the WPA is putting on these events and almost no one can actually see them live. What is it they are even trying to accomplish by putting on an event when no one can see it? Future TV coverage? What TV coverage? It is completely pointless to put on these events when they are impossible for the viewing public to see them, it does nothing to promote and advance the sport or bring interest and viewership. I would love for someone from the WPA attempt to explain what these events that almost no one is able to see is even trying to accomplish. What are they trying to create?

I can only come to the conclusion that there are certain people who make their living putting these events on and that they are paid out of the total budget to create the event and their interest in these events extends only so far as their ongoing paycheck. I can see absolutely no other value to an event that no fan is able to watch.

sfleinen
09-13-2013, 03:19 PM
Rick,
Qatar, Dubai, UAE are much safer than any other country on earth, Everyone in these countries have one mission, make money, go vacation for two months and back at it. Mainly because you cannot own guns in these cities, and so many none native live and work their. Almost all big US companies have branches their, and one of the biggest US military bases are in Qatar.

I would agree. In my travels with companies over the years (e.g. Intergraph, Cognizant, HP, etc.), I know many folks that live and work over there. And, in fact, I hope to visit there and experience the food, culture, etc.

For those that've never been there or may have "preconceived notions" of what it's like over there, one of my favorite world travelers, Anthony Bourdain (a NYC chef who took his show on the road) has a TV show called No Reservations. And that's EXACTLY what the show is about -- pushing your reservations aside, going to certain parts of the world, and experiencing it first-hand.

Anthony Bourdain's "Explore Real Dubai — No Reservations Dubai 2013"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=b4Xpg9ne7FU

Summary? Anthony had his preconceived notions BLOWN AWAY. He loved the place.

The problem we have in this country (and, to be fair, in other parts of the world) are preconceived notions of what another part of the world is about. And most often, those preconceived notions are DEAD WRONG.

Having traveled the world myself (as part of my U.S. Navy military service, as well as subsequent employers), I got to experience this firsthand. Some of those parts of the world that, before I was actually there, "would have been" "boo/hiss" "off-limits" to me as a "dumb American." But now? They're some of my favorite experiences, and now they are places I want to go back to!

-Sean

Celtic
09-13-2013, 03:25 PM
Why do you think we have one of the largest military bases there?

Because it is one of the most stable states in the Middle East and generally does not have the security issues that other areas in the Middle East inherently have, while at the same time offering close proximity to other areas of the Middle East where quick response from military stationed in Qatar may be needed.

noMoreSchon
09-13-2013, 03:42 PM
I agree with that. It is mind boggling that the WPA is putting on these events and almost no one can actually see them live. What is it they are even trying to accomplish by putting on an event when no one can see it? Future TV coverage? What TV coverage? It is completely pointless to put on these events when they are impossible for the viewing public to see them, it does nothing to promote and advance the sport or bring interest and viewership. I would love for someone from the WPA attempt to explain what these events that almost no one is able to see is even trying to accomplish. What are they trying to create?

I can only come to the conclusion that there are certain people who make their living putting these events on and that they are paid out of the total budget to create the event and their interest in these events extends only so far as their ongoing paycheck. I can see absolutely no other value to an event that no fan is able to watch.

Maybe, just maybe the scene is really on fire there. Who knows what is going on other than the good ol' US of A can't and will not support the sport of billiards. The companies will not support it, the players will not support it. What it comes down to is the few people, and by few I mean non-existent, that go out of the way to purchase a stream, or see one live. Out of the members here how many have purchased a stream? %1, %10, %80? I don't know but IMO it can't be more than %5 of them. We lost. Qatar has the chance to do something more than we can, give them a chance, boycott? Sure we can't do it so lets not get behind someone (anyone please) to save and resurrect the game of pocket billiards. We have not been able to gain viewers here, and it is a business, which we lose sight of, MLB, PGA, NBA, all businesses, if they didn't have the revenue to support the leagues people would be watching pop warner, exactly what us Americans are doing now with pool. No one has an idea to fix this, only wishes that it happens. Good luck Qatar!

Joe_Jaguar
09-13-2013, 03:50 PM
Maybe, just maybe the scene is really on fire there. Who knows what is going on other than the good ol' US of A can't and will not support the sport of billiards. The companies will not support it, the players will not support it. What it comes down to is the few people, and by few I mean non-existent, that go out of the way to purchase a stream, or see one live. Out of the members here how many have purchased a stream? %1, %10, %80? I don't know but IMO it can't be more than %5 of them. We lost. Qatar has the chance to do something more than we can, give them a chance, boycott? Sure we can't do it so lets not get behind someone (anyone please) to save and resurrect the game of pocket billiards. We have not been able to gain viewers here, and it is a business, which we lose sight of, MLB, PGA, NBA, all businesses, if they didn't have the revenue to support the leagues people would be watching pop warner, exactly what us Americans are doing now with pool. No one has an idea to fix this, only wishes that it happens. Good luck Qatar!

They do it for one reason there in Qatar, because the money is flowing and they can say they staged a world championship. They don't give a sh!t if one single person watched it. Were there any fans in attendance in that little athletic club that it was held at? Did they let all their Pinoy inported slave labor enter to watch their players kick a$$? Won't know because there was virtually no coverage.

ENGLISH!
09-13-2013, 03:57 PM
Because it is one of the most stable states in the Middle East and generally does not have the security issues that other areas in the Middle East inherently have, while at the same time offering close proximity to other areas of the Middle East where quick response from military stationed in Qatar may be needed.

Exactly.

That's the point.

While it is probably the best location for our base in the region... the region is wacko.

What will it be tomorrow morning? Will it have incoming rockets by breakfast?

Can you or anyone guarantee anything?

What about a suicide bomber or 2 or 3 at an event with dozens of Americans & Europeans?

I would not risk my life in a mid eastern country to make anyone money.

Like I said, SVB should challenge the winner in NYC or Las Vegas.

All of the above are just my opinions.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

PS If my 28 year old daughter were to tell me that she was going to Vegas to watch the 9 ball Championship, I'd be a bit excited, but if she told me she was going to Doha for the same reason, I would not be excited...I'd be scared. In golf (& pool) one has to learn how to manage the risk vs the reward.

abbassi
09-13-2013, 06:03 PM
They absolutely should not host any tournaments except local tourneys. Why should they put up money for a bunch of ingrate pool fans and players. Bury the money in the sand.

ENGLISH!
09-13-2013, 06:11 PM
They absolutely should not host any tournaments except local tourneys. Why should they put up money for a bunch of ingrate pool fans and players. Bury the money in the sand.

You make it sound like they are doing a favor out of the kindness of their hearts & expect no monetary compensation.

I'm sure everything from round trip transportation, lodging, food, drink, local transportation, etc, will all be provided free for every contestant & spectator.

That's what a 'host' would provide.

arps
09-13-2013, 06:26 PM
Celtic,

I don't know about safety for any American there. Personally, I would not go there & I have zero notoriety.

Almost all of what you say is true. If I were SVB, I'd boycot & then throw out a challenge to the winner to play in NYC for hopefully a televised event.

That's just me & as I said, I have zero notoriety.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

if you're talking about safety, Manila ranks 21 or 22 when it comes to crime index (based on city). Doha is 227. Safety index is inversely proportional to crime rate. Despite these figures, Manila stays one of the top tourist spots here in Asia. So far, the international tournaments held here in the past were all successful. and FUN too! :)

ENGLISH!
09-13-2013, 07:05 PM
if you're talking about safety, Manila ranks 21 or 22 when it comes to crime index (based on city). Doha is 227. Safety index is inversely proportional to crime rate. Despite these figures, Manila stays one of the top tourist spots here in Asia. So far, the international tournaments held here in the past were all successful. and FUN too! :)

I hear you, I'm close to New Orleans. I know a bit about crime.

The difference is that most of that crime is person to person theft for monetary gain & not crimes waged on innocent people by radical religious individuals or governments.

If you want to rob me, I can give you my money & you will probably let me live.

If you want to kill me in god's name so you can be rewarded by him, I doubt that I can keep you from killing me. Especially if you want to do it by suicide bombing.

There are places that I will not go to in New Orleans at night. The risk far outweighs any reward.

What is being brought up to counter my concerns are not apples to apples.

If I want to go swimming I will find a pool to swim in & not go swimming in a bayou with 2 dozen 8 ft. alligators.

Best Wishes,
Rick

PS New Orleans is most probably the best place for a Super Bowl. We 'host' many events & Mardi Gras. There is crime committed during every one of them. They are all very much fun for everyone except for the victims of the crime. The prospect of losing one's life can dampen one's fun fairly quickly.

ENGLISH!
09-13-2013, 07:19 PM
Hey,

If anyone wants to go to Doha that is certainly up to them.

Between now & then, if there are any reports of any bombings or Americans being kidnapped, or what ever, perhaps people's minds might change.

I for one am not flying through a 'war zone' to play or watch pocket billiards.

To each his own.

Best Wishes to ALL,
Rick

JB Cases
09-13-2013, 07:35 PM
What does everyone think about this? (http://dohapress.com/sports-news/27416-qatar-gets-right-to-host-world-9-ball-championship-for-four-years)
294070


I think it's four more years that the rest of the world won't get see the World Championships.

And it's a travesty that in one of the world's richest nations the prize money is paltry compared to when Matchroom was running it. After four years the champions combined will not have made as much as the last first and second place finisher combined in the last Matchroom WC.

Kudos WPA.

arps
09-14-2013, 12:08 AM
I hear you, I'm close to New Orleans. I know a bit about crime.

The difference is that most of that crime is person to person theft for monetary gain & not crimes waged on innocent people by radical religious individuals or governments.

If you want to rob me, I can give you my money & you will probably let me live.

If you want to kill me in god's name so you can be rewarded by him, I doubt that I can keep you from killing me. Especially if you want to do it by suicide bombing.


it's very timely that you mentioned that, because right now, a Muslim separatist group is creating chaos in the southern part of the Philippines. about 60,000 people have left their homes to avoid crossfire. here, http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/487315/military-pounds-moro-rebs-toll-hits-23

anyway, like you said, it depends on the location. as long as pool tourneys like WPC are held in Metro Manila, then it's gonna be awesome and "conflict-free."

P.S. I've been to the US a lot of times and i havent watched a football or even a baseball game. shame on me.

dom_poppa
09-14-2013, 12:36 AM
Like someone mentioned earlier, Qatar doesn't give a crap about pool. All it wants is the prestige to say they can hold a world championship tournament there. They don't care about televising it because if you want to see it, then you will go to their country.

You have to remember this is a country that is full of money. They build crazy buildings, man-made islands and the world's tallest standing structure just to say they can. It's bragging rights. It's like that rich guy that buys that Ferrari and trashes it because he can. The guy that buys that Balabushka and treats it like a house cue.

They don't care what fans think because when it comes down to it, it's held at their place. Unfortunately the picked a sport that is not very popular and have no reason to improve it.

naji
09-14-2013, 05:49 AM
Hey,

If anyone wants to go to Doha that is certainly up to them.

Between now & then, if there are any reports of any bombings or Americans being kidnapped, or what ever, perhaps people's minds might change.

I for one am not flying through a 'war zone' to play or watch pocket billiards.

To each his own.

Best Wishes to ALL,
Rick

Hi Rick,
There is no doubt that the Middle East is boiling with troubles all over; One thing to mention is Qatar, Dubai, Saudi Arabia do not have open borders to everyone, no Arab can get into these cities without a visa and proof that he is genuinely going there to work, and has the education to go with it; all low Arab class citizens usually are not granted visas; therefore, these cities will remain in piece- maybe until the oil is dried out. Check this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtaWkeOjvyA

dorabelle
09-14-2013, 06:22 AM
Rick,
Qatar, Dubai, UAE are much safer than any other country on earth, Everyone in these countries have one mission, make money, go vacation for two months and back at it. Mainly because you cannot own guns in these cities, and so many none native live and work their. Almost all big US companies have branches their, and one of the biggest US military bases are in Qatar.

I don't know how you can say this. A Norwegian woman went to Dubai on a business trip and was raped. She went to the police and they threw her in prison for 16 months because she had sex with someone that wasnt her husband. These countries are not safe.

Scaramouche
09-14-2013, 06:25 AM
Like someone mentioned earlier, Qatar doesn't give a crap about pool. All it wants is the prestige to say they can hold a world championship tournament there. They don't care about televising it because if you want to see it, then you will go to their country.

You have to remember this is a country that is full of money. They build crazy buildings, man-made islands and the world's tallest standing structure just to say they can. It's bragging rights. It's like that rich guy that buys that Ferrari and trashes it because he can. The guy that buys that Balabushka and treats it like a house cue.

They don't care what fans think because when it comes down to it, it's held at their place. Unfortunately the picked a sport that is not very popular and have no reason to improve it.

Qatar is not Dubai.

Joe_Jaguar
09-14-2013, 06:36 AM
Qatar is not Dubai.

True, Qatar is the one that will be hosting the World Cup and building in mass for it. Same Sh!t, different sand dune.

FranCrimi
09-14-2013, 07:10 AM
I don't know how you can say this. A Norwegian woman went to Dubai on a business trip and was raped. She went to the police and they threw her in prison for 16 months because she had sex with someone that wasnt her husband. These countries are not safe.

No need to be concerned about that. Places like Qatar and the Emirates haven't been the least bit interested in hosting women's world billiard events, so we can expect that our women billiard players will not have a need to travel there anytime soon. Women are 2nd class citizens in those countries.

Despite the fact that Qatar and the Emirates have been very supportive of men's billiards, Jews are not allowed to participate in events held in their countries. I don't know how they do it with other sporting events they hold. Maybe there are special arrangements made, but none that I know of are in place for billiards. Players also had better make sure their passport does not have a stamp from having visited Israel, as it could cost them access into the country.

naji
09-14-2013, 07:30 AM
I don't know how you can say this. A Norwegian woman went to Dubai on a business trip and was raped. She went to the police and they threw her in prison for 16 months because she had sex with someone that wasnt her husband. These countries are not safe.


It is unfortunate that isolated crimes do happen everywhere on this planet; Qatar is hosting the World Soccer Cup in two or three years; this is really big event, and it means a lot for this little nation to be approved by all nations as the host for such event.

dorabelle
09-14-2013, 07:47 AM
It is unfortunate that isolated crimes do happen everywhere on this planet; Qatar is hosting the World Soccer Cup in two or three years; this is really big event, and it means a lot for this little nation to be approved by all nations as the host for such event.

This is not an isolated crime. She is the criminal because she was raped. Its not the first story of its kind. Im sure there are tons more women getting raped and they cant go to the police because if they do they go to jail.

cmbwsu
09-14-2013, 09:07 AM
everyone was disappointed that the live streaming match coverage of the finals was a failure.
to make it up to those thousands of disappointed pool fans all over the world, i suggest that they put all recorded videos of the 2013 WPC matches on youtube.

Both Semi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCn3dFY3SLg) (posted earlier at #5) and Final (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtMyxpbAb8M) matches are up on YouTube.
294165

ENGLISH!
09-14-2013, 09:38 AM
Hi Rick,
There is no doubt that the Middle East is boiling with troubles all over; One thing to mention is Qatar, Dubai, Saudi Arabia do not have open borders to everyone, no Arab can get into these cities without a visa and proof that he is genuinely going there to work, and has the education to go with it; all low Arab class citizens usually are not granted visas; therefore, these cities will remain in piece- maybe until the oil is dried out. Check this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtaWkeOjvyA

Mr. Naji,

Again, I hear you, but...

Criminals do not obey the laws and...certain 'groups' can & will hold families hostage & force family members to do things that they would not normally do.

Like Dora said, they treat women worse than they would treat their camel.

Sorry, I'm not going there & would certainly not want my 28 year old daughter going there.

I hope nothing happens to anyone, but the risk does not out weigh the reward.

I'm not shooting that shot.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

pro9dg
09-14-2013, 09:52 AM
Qatar has publicly declared that it wishes to be recognised as The Sports Capital of The World. It is not only billiards that benefits from a strong Olympic influenced infrastructure. Dozens of other sports do.

The Qatar billiards Federation have their own purpose built HQ packed with their own snooker and pool tables. There are offices suites and it makes sense that the WPA should move it’s base from Ian Anderson’s Presidential kitchen table to a more professional location. The Qataris will finance this and no ‘palm greasing’ is necessary. This is a despicable accusation.

You must have heard the expression “He who pays the Piper Calls The Tune”
It costs the QBSF half a million dollars to put on the World 9 Ball. For that they got a World Class field. The only players capable of winning it who were not there were Johnny Archer and Ronnie Alcano.

They also got First Class TV Production by their own terrestrial Station Al Kass. This included plenty of news updates a magazines style TV slots before and during the event. This was seen by healthy audiences not only just in Qatar but Al Kass can be seen in all the neighbouring Gulf countries.
The coped efficiently with over 130 players at the Qualifying tournaments. Then they ran smoothly through the Group Stages and then through the knockout phase effortlessly.
You will hear no complaints from the players.

There is a mistaken belief that everything in the pool world revolves around the USA. But with a couple of exceptions the World does not give a shit if US players play or do not play. This is not my personal opinion as I have closer ties than most other people with the American scene – it is just how I see how these other people perceive it.

So if there is a compelling reason why people outside of the Gulf States should see it then the option is for some broadcaster could step in and acquire subsiduary rights to show it.

I attempted to do this several years ago but did not proceed because (a) I am not a fan of streaming (b) acquiring terrestrial rights made no commercial sense giving the propensity of pool fans to expect ‘something for nothing’.

Finally, the paranoia about the UAE and Qatar is misplaced. I would happily walk around the late night streets of Dubai or Doha. Not something I would say about Detroit or Dallas. Sure they have strict religious based laws and customs. Make sure that you don’t break them and you will be OK

david(tx)
09-14-2013, 09:53 AM
Bob...Sounds to me like there were some seriously "greased palms" involved in this...including moving the 'world HQ' for the WPA to Qatar. Next thing you know the Mosconi Cup will be moved there too. :frown:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com


Pool organizations are really pretty flimsy , i'm guessing a minivan could move the WPA to Qatar as far as the volume of material they have . How many employees , 10 ?Somebody could start the International Pool Assoc. and run the WPA out of town if they have bigger payouts and more events . The WPA funds nothing , they are just a self appointed sanctioning body.

Kevin Trudeau put more money into pool than than Qatar and the WPA combined , maybe with just one event . You could have the Global 9 Ball Championships , International , Intergalactic , the 9 Ball Championships of the Universe , pick a name.
You just need an investor or sponsor.

david(tx)
09-14-2013, 09:55 AM
Not all Middle Eastern states are considered equal. I know people who have worked in Qatar and it is a very safe place relatively speaking compared to other areas in the Middle East. The people I know who have worked and lived there have had no issues and do not cower in a camp behind armed guards, if a person went there and worked there and did that then that is more of an issue with their own issues then Qatar itself.

The reality is that the sport is going to go where A) the money is. If Qatar is willing to up the prize fund and make the event more profitable for the players then that is where it is going to be. B) where fan support is. Lets face it, America and Europe both do not support pool, they have not done so for decades, and as such why the heck would you put a WPC event on in either area so that you can have empty seats in the stands and paltry prize funds due to the lack of sponsor support?

The sport has to grow somewhere, America had decades of control over the future of pool and they screwed up and watched the sport spiral down into obscurity for decades without doing anything to stem the collapse. Now they lost it to other places that are doing the job of growing the sport better then America has been able to manage. That is how it goes.

If America wants the sport back they better start proving they can actually start doing things a lot better and atm pool in America is worse off then it has been in any of the previous decades, the payouts for what major events remain are less then they ever were while inflation has further reduced the actual true value of the payouts, the stands at all events are empty, the US Open 9-ball year after year delays payment and is threatened by the American run professional organization of boycott, and American players largely skip playing in WPA events as it is and few have a legitimate chance to even compete against a WPA field. Why in the hell would the WPA want anything to do with America atm for pool? It is a dead market full of old retired former pros and top end amateur players who torture local tours and rarely ever compete against true stacked professional fields, it has no sponsorship outside of pool related companies, and it has no in person fan support and normally has empty stands during the finals of the main events.



Are you including Canada as a part of America ?

pro9dg
09-14-2013, 10:04 AM
To Scott Lee,
The Mosconi Cup event is privately owned. Why on earth would Matchroom want to take it to the Middle East when it is a contest between the USA and Europe, The jibe about greasing palms was reallly not something that I expected from someone who who I respect as much as you Scott

pro9dg
09-14-2013, 10:15 AM
Pool organizations are really pretty flimsy , i'm guessing a minivan could move the WPA to Qatar as far as the volume of material they have . How many employees , 10 ?Somebody could start the International Pool Assoc. and run the WPA out of town if they have bigger payouts and more events . The WPA funds nothing , they are just a self appointed sanctioning body.

Kevin Trudeau put more money into pool than than Qatar and the WPA combined , maybe with just one event . You could have the Global 9 Ball Championships , International , Intergalactic , the 9 Ball Championships of the Universe , pick a name.
You just need an investor or sponsor.

I mentioned in a previous post the WPA Kitchen Table. That is about the sum of it.
Golf has West Palm Beach and Tennis it's Wimbledon. Now at least we have a HQ in one of the World's wealthiest cities. That has to be progress.

The reality of the situation is there is only ONE WPA employee - Ian Anderson. There is a Board of Directors whose work input is negligible outside of periodic meetings.

But it is a One Man Band and given the circumstances I think that he does a great job.
At least in Qatar he will probably get some office support staff.

ENGLISH!
09-14-2013, 11:57 AM
I mentioned in a previous post the WPA Kitchen Table. That is about the sum of it.
Golf has West Palm Beach and Tennis it's Wimbledon. Now at least we have a HQ in one of the World's wealthiest cities. That has to be progress.

The reality of the situation is there is only ONE WPA employee - Ian Anderson. There is a Board of Directors whose work input is negligible outside of periodic meetings.

But it is a One Man Band and given the circumstances I think that he does a great job.
At least in Qatar he will probably get some office support staff.

No offence meant to anyone, but if that is of what the WPA consists then perhaps it should be abolished & let another entity take over.

Who wants to be the World Governing Body for Cue Sports. Submit an application & the top three will be selected by the WPA to be submitted for a vote of approval by all of the current world wide professional players.

Or better yet, keep the WPA out of the process & any & all comers submit applications directly to a 3 man players rep panel for approval to be put to vote by all players. The panel could consist of a rep from USA, Europe, & the Far East, or something similar.

There has to be more than a One Man Band willing to be the Governing Body of World Wide Cue Sports.

Just a thought.

pro9dg
09-14-2013, 01:40 PM
No offence meant to anyone, but if that is of what the WPA consists then perhaps it should be abolished & let another entity take over.

Who wants to be the World Governing Body for Cue Sports. Submit an application & the top three will be selected by the WPA to be submitted for a vote of approval by all of the current world wide professional players.

Or better yet, keep the WPA out of the process & any & all comers submit applications directly to a 3 man players rep panel for approval to be put to vote by all players. The panel could consist of a rep from USA, Europe, & the Far East, or something similar.

There has to be more than a One Man Band willing to be the Governing Body of World Wide Cue Sports.

Just a thought.

I don't think that Ian Anderson should be left out of this equation. If he is a One Man Band then he has an orchestra of instruments in his armory.

He has the recognition of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and also the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS). They are two powerful endorsements.

Leaving Barry Hearn aside because he is not interested beyond his current portfolio of events (Mosconi Cup, World Masters and the WCOP) just who are the great and good who would populate these new bodies. I have the benefit of knowing virtually anyone of any substance in the game and I am hard pushed to imagine what alliances could be formed.

While I realise that players have an important stake in this scenario, they have proved time and time again to be poor decision makers, preferring SELF to SENSE.

The WPA may not be perfect but they do stand alone as an independent body with no
nepotismic axe to grind. Ian has secured many deals during his Presidency which may not be earth shattering financially, do aggregate up to a lot of money in a brutal economic climate. Hell, the World 9 Ball for another four years, that is over $2 million plus guaranteed.
It is not Qatar that is at fault. It is the US lack of appetite for the game.

naji
09-14-2013, 02:16 PM
I mentioned in a previous post the WPA Kitchen Table. That is about the sum of it.
Golf has West Palm Beach and Tennis it's Wimbledon. Now at least we have a HQ in one of the World's wealthiest cities. That has to be progress.

The reality of the situation is there is only ONE WPA employee - Ian Anderson. There is a Board of Directors whose work input is negligible outside of periodic meetings.

But it is a One Man Band and given the circumstances I think that he does a great job.
At least in Qatar he will probably get some office support staff.


Geographically speaking Qatar is very conveniently located for almost all participants, especially Europeans with 100% tax free economics that makes it ideal location.

I agree with those that have issue with streaming the event, i have a feeling if one of the Qatari kids made it to 32 you will see multiple streams. I think this stream situation will definitely change to the better.

ENGLISH!
09-14-2013, 02:26 PM
I don't think that Ian Anderson should be left out of this equation. If he is a One Man Band then he has an orchestra of instruments in his armory.

He has the recognition of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and also the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS). They are two powerful endorsements.

Leaving Barry Hearn aside because he is not interested beyond his current portfolio of events (Mosconi Cup, World Masters and the WCOP) just who are the great and good who would populate these new bodies. I have the benefit of knowing virtually anyone of any substance in the game and I am hard pushed to imagine what alliances could be formed.

While I realise that players have an important stake in this scenario, they have proved time and time again to be poor decision makers, preferring SELF to SENSE.

The WPA may not be perfect but they do stand alone as an independent body with no
nepotismic axe to grind. Ian has secured many deals during his Presidency which may not be earth shattering financially, do aggregate up to a lot of money in a brutal economic climate. Hell, the World 9 Ball for another four years, that is over $2 million plus guaranteed.
It is not Qatar that is at fault. It is the US lack of appetite for the game.

pro,

As I said, no offense intended to anyone, especially Mr. Anderson. I know nothing of him.

It was just a little eye opening to read that the WPA exists of a one man operation capable of operating from a large van driving around somewhere in Europe or the Middle East.

Nepotism? A one man operation & a board.

Again no offense intended & no accusations.

I just think your declarative explanation raises more questions.

But... I used to me an international maritime investigator so I have an inquisitive background, which very often proved itself to be founded.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

juegabillar
09-14-2013, 04:31 PM
Guess you gotta do what you gotta do.....follow the money trail. Hope this move brings in more money to the tournament and the World Association....

NYC cue dude
09-14-2013, 04:54 PM
Geographically speaking Qatar is very conveniently located for almost all participants, especially Europeans with 100% tax free economics that makes it ideal location.

I agree with those that have issue with streaming the event, i have a feeling if one of the Qatari kids made it to 32 you will see multiple streams. I think this stream situation will definitely change to the better.

Although Gabica is a Philippine national, he was a de facto representative of Qatar as he has been a Qatar national team coach for the past 4 years as well as wearing the Qatar shirt and colors throughout this event. There could not be a more important representative for Qatar to stream and yet they intentionally did not.

salted
09-14-2013, 05:01 PM
you mean the qatar in the middle east? cousin was stationed there in the air force and would not leave the base for fear of being killed because he is an american

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life. I am pretty sure you don't even have a cousin in Qatar. Do you even know where it is? We're not talking about Iraq or Afghanistan here. Btw saying Qatar is unsafe is like saying California is unsafe because of Compton or New Jersey is unsafe due to Camden.
Qatar, like the UAE is reaping in the benefits due its abundance in oil. Tourism for both the UAE and Qatar are now their secondary sources of income and will be relied on heavily once the oil runs out. There is a huge xpat community in both countries and the monarchies of both countries have made sure to be as liberal as possible regarding elements such as alcohol. This is to appeal more to the western xpats who have flooding these countries because of the nonexistent tax rates and massive monetary and fringe benefits. Qatar will be hosting the 2022 Football World Cup while the Dubai has made huge strides to attaining the rights and is fav to host Expo 2020. If these countries were as bad and volatile as most of the comments coming from individuals who have never set foot outside the US (I'm pretty sure some haven't even left their own state) are saying, these countries would not be given (or about to be) these opportunities.
The fact that the World 9 Ball is in Qatar is probably one of the best things to happen to a game which has been spiraling out of control. Yes the stream was non-existent till the semi-final and commentary was in Arabic, but these are minor issues. I'm sure these things will be resolved and we're going to have Jay Helfert sitting in the commentary booth very soon. For Qatar the goal is to appeal to the Middle Eastern audience to gain attention and more investment and then diversify to an international scale. The fact that this tournament is actually being held is a step in the right direction considering just a few years ago, this tournament could not be held due to the lack of sponsors. Rather than recommending US and European players boycott this tournament because its in a volatile location (which another very stupid comment), lets get behind this tournament and make recommendations and support rather than criticize which has become a common theme on this forum.

salted
09-14-2013, 05:04 PM
Although Gabica is a Philippine national, he was a de facto representative of Qatar as he has been a Qatar national team coach for the past 4 years as well as wearing the Qatar shirt and colors throughout this event. There could not be a more important representative for Qatar to stream and yet they intentionally did not.

The organisers had nothing to do with the lack of stream. The organisers signed a deal with Al Kass who are one of the largest broadcasters in the Middle East. It was their choice to not show up when they did as they felt the broadcasting the start of the Qatari Football season would reap them more benefits. No doubt however that the W9B organisers need to think more regarding their strategy of attaining a larger international appeal.

salted
09-14-2013, 05:13 PM
I don't know how you can say this. A Norwegian woman went to Dubai on a business trip and was raped. She went to the police and they threw her in prison for 16 months because she had sex with someone that wasnt her husband. These countries are not safe.

So you're going to base whether a country is safe or not on a article you read about a Norwegian woman? There were over 90000 cases of rape in 2008 in the US from which only 25% led to an arrest. Does that mean the US is an unsafe country?
Yes the laws in the UAE are different from the US and in this case and the way you've portrayed it, the woman should not have been in jail. However anyone who enters countries such as the UAE and Qatar should know that the government follows the Shariah Law (however they have been very liberal as compared to Saudi Arabia as access to alcohol is due to the abundance of hotels, bars and nightclubs in these countries). This means that having sex before marriage is a punishable offense. I'm not trying to take away the fact that the woman you mentioned in your post may have been a victim, and in that case her being jailed is an atrocity, however I cannot say whether this was a right or wrong decision without full knowledge of the facts.

salted
09-14-2013, 05:16 PM
Hey,

If anyone wants to go to Doha that is certainly up to them.

Between now & then, if there are any reports of any bombings or Americans being kidnapped, or what ever, perhaps people's minds might change.

I for one am not flying through a 'war zone' to play or watch pocket billiards.

To each his own.

Best Wishes to ALL,
Rick

you really need to educate yourself about the outside world and not just follow what's on CNN.

ENGLISH!
09-14-2013, 05:35 PM
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life. I am pretty sure you don't even have a cousin in Qatar. Do you even know where it is? We're not talking about Iraq or Afghanistan here. Btw saying Qatar is unsafe is like saying California is unsafe because of Compton or New Jersey is unsafe due to Camden.
Qatar, like the UAE is reaping in the benefits due its abundance in oil. Tourism for both the UAE and Qatar are now their secondary sources of income and will be relied on heavily once the oil runs out. There is a huge xpat community in both countries and the monarchies of both countries have made sure to be as liberal as possible regarding elements such as alcohol. This is to appeal more to the western xpats who have flooding these countries because of the nonexistent tax rates and massive monetary and fringe benefits. Qatar will be hosting the 2022 Football World Cup while the Dubai has made huge strides to attaining the rights and is fav to host Expo 2020. If these countries were as bad and volatile as most of the comments coming from individuals who have never set foot outside the US (I'm pretty sure some haven't even left their own state) are saying, these countries would not be given (or about to be) these opportunities.
The fact that the World 9 Ball is in Qatar is probably one of the best things to happen to a game which has been spiraling out of control. Yes the stream was non-existent till the semi-final and commentary was in Arabic, but these are minor issues. I'm sure these things will be resolved and we're going to have Jay Helfert sitting in the commentary booth very soon. For Qatar the goal is to appeal to the Middle Eastern audience to gain attention and more investment and then diversify to an international scale. The fact that this tournament is actually being held is a step in the right direction considering just a few years ago, this tournament could not be held due to the lack of sponsors. Rather than recommending US and European players boycott this tournament because its in a volatile location (which another very stupid comment), lets get behind this tournament and make recommendations and support rather than criticize which has become a common theme on this forum.

salted,

I was in the international maritime industry for nearly 15 years. I know where EAU & Qatar are. They are a long stones throw (or missile shoot or boat trip) over water just south of IRAN.

Why would any American or European want to go any where near there? To play or watch pocket billiards?

While EAU & Qatar may be on the right side of the tracks, so to speak, they are just in the wrong part of the world at this particular time in history.

Giving it to them at this point in time (& for the next 4 years) is just not good, IMO.

If you want people to get behind the event, it should not be held just south of IRAN.

If EAU & Qatar are turning their eye away from certain 'Sins' to make more money, how long before you think they attract the hate in their direction? Tomorrow, next week, next month, next year?

I actually hope someone comes up with an event at the same time where the Americans & Europeans, etc. have an option to play elsewhere & not just south of IRAN.

I Love The Game but the potential risk just out weighs the possible reward from an individual's perspective, IMO

Naturally all of the above are just my opinions.

Best Wishes,
Rick

NYC cue dude
09-14-2013, 05:44 PM
The organisers had nothing to do with the lack of stream. The organisers signed a deal with Al Kass who are one of the largest broadcasters in the Middle East. It was their choice to not show up when they did as they felt the broadcasting the start of the Qatari Football season would reap them more benefits. No doubt however that the W9B organisers need to think more regarding their strategy of attaining a larger international appeal.

Broke their contract. But ultimately, the promoters are responsible. They either didn't have the foresight to see this problem or their contract didn't have enough teeth. Either way, the stream was unavailable for the finals. Lest we not forget that the previous day the 3rd round was also supposed to be streamed and was not.

salted
09-14-2013, 05:44 PM
English - I didn't question you regarding the location of Qatar. It was more towards the person said that his cousin felt unsafe leaving his base in Qatar as he thought he might get killed. Hope that clears up the first point you wrote :)

I agree that the Middle East is going through through face of revolution and radicalism which has led to what has been on the news pretty much every day. That does not mean however that the countries in this region be abandoned due to what's going on with their neighbours. Now you tell me with an example that will have local appeal to you. A city in the US is having problems with impoverishment, crime, guns, rape and gangs. In order to tackle this problem, the government decides to stop investing in the whole state in which the city is found. What will that lead to? I hope you can see the resemblance of my example to what you're saying about Qatar and the Middle East.

salted
09-14-2013, 05:48 PM
Broke their contract. But ultimately, the promoters are responsible. They either didn't have the foresight to see this problem or their contract didn't have enough teeth. Either way, the stream was unavailable for the finals. Lest we not forget that the previous day the 3rd round was also supposed to be streamed and was not.

I completely agree that the WORLD 9 BALL not being at least streamed is a huge failure for the organisers and something which I'm sure will be on the top of their agenda come next year. However you cannot hold them responsible for what happened. The organisers were told that a stream would be available for the top 64 which did not happen. As a result the agreement with the broadcasters was not followed through. This will just mean the agreement will have to be looked upon again and refinements will be made or a new broadcaster will be needed. However trust me when I say that Al Kass is the best option with regards to quality and broadcasting. Its just they felt football was more important than pool.

ENGLISH!
09-14-2013, 05:59 PM
English - I didn't question regarding the location of Qatar. It was more towards the person said that his cousin felt unsafe leaving his base in Qatar as he thought he might get killed.
I agree that the Middle East is going through through face of revolution and radicalism which has led to what has been on the news pretty much every day. That does not mean however that the countries in this region be abandoned due to what's going on with their neighbours. Now you tell me with an example that will have local appeal to you. A city in the US is having problems with impoverishment, crime, guns, rape and gangs. In order to tackle this problem, the government decides to stop investing in the whole state in which the city is found. What will that lead to? I hope you can see the resemblance of my example to what you're saying about Qatar and the Middle East.

salted,

I don't see any resemblance in your example to the subject at hand.

Why was the event granted to a location in such a dangerous area of the world & for the next 4 years. It's not the WPA's job to support any country or city or area of the world.

If a city in a state is running rampant with violence where visitors can not be safe, the government does not reward the city with an Inauguration Ball for the Governor or any public event that they can direct. They invest in the city with increased law enforcement.

What's your dog in this 'fight'? Why are you so pro Qatar for this event?

Best Wishes,
Rick

salted
09-14-2013, 06:17 PM
my argument is that just because a few countries in a region are having issues, it should not mean events like the world 9 ball should be taken away from one of the locations in that region. This is why I used my example where a city in turmoil leads to a state being abandoned.
I can really go away from pool and try explain how certain events and decisions led to the turmoil (weapons of mass destruction?) however I want this argument to stick to pool. I'm only pro Qatar as I honestly feel this location, their investments and growing market towards the game in the middle-east can lead pool towards the right direction. There is no other location which can provide to the game like they can.

FranCrimi
09-14-2013, 06:23 PM
I don't think that Ian Anderson should be left out of this equation. If he is a One Man Band then he has an orchestra of instruments in his armory.

He has the recognition of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and also the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS). They are two powerful endorsements.

Leaving Barry Hearn aside because he is not interested beyond his current portfolio of events (Mosconi Cup, World Masters and the WCOP) just who are the great and good who would populate these new bodies. I have the benefit of knowing virtually anyone of any substance in the game and I am hard pushed to imagine what alliances could be formed.

While I realise that players have an important stake in this scenario, they have proved time and time again to be poor decision makers, preferring SELF to SENSE.

The WPA may not be perfect but they do stand alone as an independent body with no
nepotismic axe to grind. Ian has secured many deals during his Presidency which may not be earth shattering financially, do aggregate up to a lot of money in a brutal economic climate. Hell, the World 9 Ball for another four years, that is over $2 million plus guaranteed.
It is not Qatar that is at fault. It is the US lack of appetite for the game.

Doug, I'm wondering why the billiard world should support an area of the world that has had no interest whatsoever in promoting women's billiards.

What signal is the WPA sending by centering their headquarters where women are not even considered for billiards competitions?

You and others may be critical of the U.S. but the BCA has always made sure that the events they ran had equal support for both men and women. This treatment has not even happened in Europe. The EPBF has been far from fair towards it's women players based on the events it runs.

ENGLISH!
09-14-2013, 06:39 PM
my argument is that just because a few countries in a region are having issues, it should not mean events like the world 9 ball should be taken away from one of the locations in that region. This is why I used my example where a city in turmoil leads to a state being abandoned.
I can really go away from pool and try explain how certain events and decisions led to the turmoil (weapons of mass destruction?) however I want this argument to stick to pool. I'm only pro Qatar as I honestly feel this location, their investments and growing market towards the game in the middle-east can lead pool towards the right direction. There is no other location which can provide to the game like they can.

salted,

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to how a region, country, or city can lead pool in the right direction.

But...the ten riches cities in the world per GDP as of April 2013 are Tokyo, New York, Los Angelos, Seoul, London, Paris, Osaka, Chicago, Moscow, & Shanghai.

Why, exactly should this event be held just south of IRAN in Doha, Qatar, especially given the turmoil in the region at this time?

Best Wishes,
Rick

salted
09-14-2013, 06:48 PM
salted,

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to how a region, country, or city can lead pool in the right direction.

But...the ten riches cities in the world per GDP as of April 2013 are Tokyo, New York, Los Angelos, Seoul, London, Paris, Osaka, Chicago, Moscow, & Shanghai.

Why, exactly should this event be held just south of IRAN in Doha, Qatar, especially given the turmoil in the region at this time?

Best Wishes,
Rick

The fact that a region, country or city is willing to hold the world 9 ball is a win for the game and leads it to the right direction.
I don't see any of those 10 cities wanting to host the world 9 ball so don't see your point. Qatar stepped up and took over this prestigious event while others were left with invisible sponsors and wannabe organisers.

ENGLISH!
09-14-2013, 07:51 PM
The fact that a region, country or city is willing to hold the world 9 ball is a win for the game and leads it to the right direction.
I don't see any of those 10 cities wanting to host the world 9 ball so don't see your point. Qatar stepped up and took over this prestigious event while others were left with invisible sponsors and wannabe organisers.

salted,

So...if IRAN offered to 'host' it, it should have been 'awarded' to them, or how about Syria?

If the WPA can't 'sell' the event then perhaps the WPA should fold up shop & let someone else take the reins.

Again, I mean no offense to anyone as I certainly do not know all of the particulars.

But...If I were a 'western world' professional player I would pass on the event & find something else to do for that week as I would not go just south of IRAN to compete in or watch pocket billiards.

Again it's the risk reward balancing act.

The Middle East is a sad, sad situation & I pray for peaceful resolutions nearly every night, not just for that region but for around the whole world.

Sorry, but I just do not see any real logic to what you are saying.

Best Wishes,
Rick

PS As I said before there are places in New Orleans that I am not going to at night. The risk far out weighs the reward.

naji
09-14-2013, 07:59 PM
Although Gabica is a Philippine national, he was a de facto representative of Qatar as he has been a Qatar national team coach for the past 4 years as well as wearing the Qatar shirt and colors throughout this event. There could not be a more important representative for Qatar to stream and yet they intentionally did not.

You have to really live there to understand what i said; None natives cannot represent the country; plus remember one of those Poinys knocked off one of the good natives.

I watched the finals on Youtube, and the Guest with the commentator was the head of the Qatar BSF, and said in Arabic, that they will have streams over the internet next year like no one sees before, he also said, that they met this year with Alkass channel but could not close the internet stream deal, so it was pushed for next year.


No place like USA that have high sportsmanship no matter who wins.

book collector
09-15-2013, 01:46 AM
Every time I see this name I think of a song title " Qatar Hero" I know it is ridiculous but I can't stop.

pro9dg
09-15-2013, 03:26 AM
[QUOTE=arps;4348981]everyone was disappointed that the live streaming match coverage of the finals was a failure.
to make it up to those thousands of disappointed pool fans all over the world, i suggest that they put all recorded videos of the 2013 WPC matches on youtube.[/QUOTE

So it will be free?
Al Kass produced a package with high production values. PERHAPS THEY FEEL THAT THEY HAVE HIT THEIR TARGET MARKET. ]

So why would they do that?

The fact is that the tournament slots were GAZUMPED by soccer..

So it was no fault of the WPA or the QBSF

pooler
09-15-2013, 04:50 AM
Doug, I'm wondering why the billiard world should support an area of the world that has had no interest whatsoever in promoting women's billiards.

What signal is the WPA sending by centering their headquarters where women are not even considered for billiards competitions?

You and others may be critical of the U.S. but the BCA has always made sure that the events they ran had equal support for both men and women. This treatment has not even happened in Europe. The EPBF has been far from fair towards it's women players based on the events it runs.

Hmmmmmm..., FranCrimi

Could you possibly elaborate on the highlighted (in red) section of your comment ?

Regards

FranCrimi
09-15-2013, 05:32 AM
Hmmmmmm..., FranCrimi

Could you possibly elaborate on the highlighted (in red) section of your comment ?

Regards

Sure. As far back as I can remember, the EPBF chose their male players to represent Europe in WPA sanctioned events by their ranking, which was derived from their play on the EPBF tour. However, the women were chosen based on their finish in just one women's event at year-end, for each disciplne, because there was no women's EPBF tour. And sometimes the women players were even hand-picked by the EPBF. For many years there have been no viable competitions in Europe to accumulate even remotely enough to have a legitimate European women's ranking system. The main focus there has always been on the men.

pro9dg
09-15-2013, 07:40 AM
Fran, I am not totally familiar with the way that things operate in Europe but I do believe that Gre Leenders and David Morris would be running ladies events if they thought that there was a demand for them.
As far as I am aware ladies can play on the (Men's) Euro Tour. These guys are not exactly bosom buddies of mine but I do recognise and salute their efforts. Many European Woman have forsaken the Euro scene and have moved over to the States - Allison, Karen, Kelly, Julie, Kim, Sarah - they have all tasted success over there and Jasmin and others travel to compete.
I suppose the compromise could be to take their results from the EuroTour events in which they do paricipate

pro9dg
09-15-2013, 07:55 AM
Doug, I'm wondering why the billiard world should support an area of the world that has had no interest whatsoever in promoting women's billiards.

What signal is the WPA sending by centering their headquarters where women are not even considered for billiards competitions?

You and others may be critical of the U.S. but the BCA has always made sure that the events they ran had equal support for both men and women. This treatment has not even happened in Europe. The EPBF has been far from fair towards it's women players based on the events it runs.

Fran

The picture that you paint is not as bleak as you see it.

Last year the Iranian Federation sent six referees to officiate at the 2012 World 9 Ball.
They were all women and they were treated respectfully by the Qatar authorities. The also did a top class job..

Now ladies from Iran and Saudi Arabia are now able to compete in international sports events.

In Dubai The Ladies Tennis Open, top ladies player Shahar Peer now is accepted by the organisers and she is from Israel.

The Crown Prince of Dubai, who is also President of the Dubai Sports Council, has launched a special initiative aimed at encouraging ladies to play pool and snooker.

I am reminded of the joke:
It was the custom for ladies to walk 5 steps behind their male colleagues. Now they walk 5 paces in front/ Why the change................................? Landmines.

I think that those days are coming to an end

pooler
09-15-2013, 08:04 AM
Sure. As far back as I can remember, the EPBF chose their male players to represent Europe in WPA sanctioned events by their ranking, which was derived from their play on the EPBF tour. However, the women were chosen based on their finish in just one women's event at year-end, for each disciplne, because there was no women's EPBF tour. And sometimes the women players were even hand-picked by the EPBF. For many years there have been no viable competitions in Europe to accumulate even remotely enough to have a legitimate European women's ranking system. The main focus there has always been on the men.

Thanks FranCrimi :smile:

Well, yes; I agree that the situation in Europe has been for long far from perfect; however, a lot of work has been put to resolve this matter.
It is only fair to state that since the beginning of 2012 we do have a regular EuroTour for women so there is a huge improvement.
Check for info at:
http://www.eurotouronline.eu/default_etwomen.asp?db=eurotour&client=women (click at Calendar to see the list of previous events)

I am more interested in the other part of your previous statement:
You and others may be critical of the U.S. but the BCA has always made sure that the events they ran had equal support for both men and women.

The question is:
How exactly does (did) the BCA treat men and women players equal?
By not supporting any of them ??? :wink:
It has been stated here on countless occasions that BCA, for many years now, does nothing to support professional pool players, be it a man, a woman or a child. Are you relating to the long gone past ?
No offence intended, just curious about that.

JAM
09-15-2013, 08:06 AM
Thanks FranCrimi :smile:

Well, yes; I agree that the situation in Europe has been for long far from perfect; however, a lot of work has been put to resolve this matter.
It is only fair to state that since the beginning of 2012 we do have a regular EuroTour for women so there is a huge improvement.
Check for info at:
http://www.eurotouronline.eu/default_etwomen.asp?db=eurotour&client=women (click at Calendar to see the list of previous events)

I am more interested in the other part of your previous statement:


The question is:
How exactly does (did) the BCA treat men and women players equal?
By not supporting any of them ??? :wink:
It has been stated here on countless occasions that BCA, for many years now, does nothing to support professional pool players, be it a man, a woman or a child. Are you relating to the long gone past ?
No offence intended, just curious about that.

I'd kind of like to know how the American players were chosen to go to Qatar last week. Just curious!

Also, Pooler, are you familiar with a family from Poland with the last name spelled P-o-z-n-e-r-z-o-n? TIA! :)

ETA: If that name is familiar to you, would you please send me a "private message"? Thanks.

sfleinen
09-15-2013, 08:15 AM
The fact that a region, country or city is willing to hold the world 9 ball is a win for the game and leads it to the right direction.
I don't see any of those 10 cities wanting to host the world 9 ball so don't see your point. Qatar stepped up and took over this prestigious event while others were left with invisible sponsors and wannabe organisers.

salted:

You're wasting your time. You know the old expression, "keeping an eye on the world from a room with no windows"? Unfortunately, that applies to a lot of Americans -- especially those that live inland, the heartland, or not on a coast that faces the rest of the world (i.e. one that doesn't face the other continents, unlike the east and west coast). The OP is obviously one of those. Forgo the "15 years of maritime experience" -- that could mean anything -- including being rooted to a single base as a dry dock or ship iron worker, which counts as "maritime experience." If he did travel on any of those vessels, I doubt he ever step foot off of the ship, save for refueling and replenishment at the harbors his vessel pulled into, and was required to load up and get underway again as quickly as possible.

Your analogy of damning an entire U.S. state because a single city has problems is right on the money -- you don't damn an entire area of the world just because a few pieces of that area are experiencing problems. Part of being a world traveler is knowing where to go, and where not to go. See post #17 (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4349279#post4349279).

Obviously, I vehemently disagree with that area of the world's view of and treatment of women as second-class citizens. When traveling, you have to be flexible and follow the rules of the areas you travel to. If this is too much for one's sensibilities, then obviously don't go there. But it's easy for culturally-neutered Americans who don't have any experience spending lots of time in other countries to pass judgment based on rough-around-the-edges Joe Factoryworker "keeping an eye on the world from a room with no windows" values.

-Sean

pooler
09-15-2013, 08:18 AM
I'd kind of like to know how the American players were chosen to go to Qatar last week. Just curious!

The answer to your first question:

Those who went there were the only ones who used the newest BCA's tool for supporting ProPool in the USA: the Official Rules Mobile Application :grin-square::eek::wink:

ENGLISH!
09-15-2013, 08:28 AM
salted:

You're wasting your time. You know the old expression, "keeping an eye on the world from a room with no windows"? Unfortunately, that applies to a lot of Americans -- especially those that live inland, the heartland, or not on a coast that faces the rest of the world (i.e. one that doesn't face the other continents, unlike the east and west coast). The OP is obviously one of those. Forgo the "15 years of maritime experience" -- that could mean anything -- including being rooted to a single base as a dry dock or ship iron worker, which counts as "maritime experience." If he did travel on any of those vessels, I doubt he ever step foot off of the ship, save for refueling and replenishment at the harbors his vessel pulled into, and was required to load up and get underway again as quickly as possible.

Your analogy of damning an entire U.S. state because a single city has problems is right on the money -- you don't damn an entire area of the world just because a few pieces of that area are experiencing problems. Part of being a world traveler is knowing where to go, and where not to go. See post #17 (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4349279#post4349279).

Obviously, I vehemently disagree with that area of the world's view of and treatment of women as second-class citizens. When traveling, you have to be flexible and follow the rules of the areas you travel to. If this is too much for one's sensibilities, then obviously don't go there. But it's easy for culturally-neutered Americans who don't have any experience spending lots of time in other countries to pass judgment based on rough-around-the-edges Joe Factoryworker "keeping an eye on the world from a room with no windows" values.

-Sean

Your backhands all missed wide 'left'. There are a few words that describe you quite well, one in particular. Unfortunately...I can't use any of them here on AZB.

pt109
09-15-2013, 08:31 AM
I hate to say this...but I think all American & European players should 'boycot' the events....unless they are moved to a more friendly neutral sight.

They can keep the rights but should be made aware of a boycot unless the events are moved.



ENGLISH, maybe you should be a little more aware of the history of your
own area....and Qatar.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2008%2F04%2F30% 2Fus%2Fnationalspecial%2F30emir.html&ei=g8o1UqWaJpPg2wW2gIGIDQ&usg=AFQjCNGdgmMiLPZOadIwLfRhjoGi8n8fDw&sig2=Yvv9_hF22j9Ze4i16Ns7nQ&bvm=bv.52164340,d.b2I

Not every Muslim has a bomb strapped to his chest.....

JAM
09-15-2013, 08:38 AM
ENGLISH, maybe you should be a little more aware of the history of your
own area....and Qatar.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2008%2F04%2F30% 2Fus%2Fnationalspecial%2F30emir.html&ei=g8o1UqWaJpPg2wW2gIGIDQ&usg=AFQjCNGdgmMiLPZOadIwLfRhjoGi8n8fDw&sig2=Yvv9_hF22j9Ze4i16Ns7nQ&bvm=bv.52164340,d.b2I

Not every Muslim has a bomb strapped to his chest.....

I just watched that movie last night: Argo. Man, what a movie! :eek:

I wonder if Mr. Wilson is that CIA agent played by Ben Affleck who retired. Similar traits. Hmm. . .

Every country has its own militants, some more than others. Even America has militants like KKK and Black Panthers. Germany had Nazis. It does not mean all the citizens of the country are militant. Sometimes a country's citizens are victimized by their own militants. :frown:

ENGLISH!
09-15-2013, 08:57 AM
ENGLISH, maybe you should be a little more aware of the history of your
own area....and Qatar.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2008%2F04%2F30% 2Fus%2Fnationalspecial%2F30emir.html&ei=g8o1UqWaJpPg2wW2gIGIDQ&usg=AFQjCNGdgmMiLPZOadIwLfRhjoGi8n8fDw&sig2=Yvv9_hF22j9Ze4i16Ns7nQ&bvm=bv.52164340,d.b2I

Not every Muslim has a bomb strapped to his chest.....

PT,

I said nothing about every Muslim or any Muslim for that matter. I have had a few small business dealings with a few People that practice the Muslim religion & they certainly seemed to be very nice & kind people. There are quite a few, actually I'd say many in the New Orleans area. I have no religious prejudice as you seem to want to make me appear, nor any for that matter.

My concern is in regards to the radicals that would strap a bomb to their chest & blow themselves up along with how many innocent men, women, & children. And...it only takes one in your proximity to take your life &/or that of your spouse or your child. Perhaps it won't be a suicide bomb. Perhaps it will be a 'stray' surface to air missile that takes down your plane on it's approach to land, or over another country in route. Who knows?

If you or anyone wants to go there to play or watch pool, that is certainly your prerogative.

I just hope & pray that all goes well, but if I were any Pro, but especially one from the western world, that is one tournament of which I would choose to pass on.

The proximity to the 'home' of the radicals is my concern.

As I have said, the reward does not out weigh the risk IMO. I'd spend that week doing something else if I was any Pro & especially one from the western world.

That's all I'm saying. It is only about one's safety.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

PS When that donation was made public, I pointed out the generosity of such a foreign national to my 'children' & family members.

PSS Note though that he did not get out from behind the tinted bullet proof glass of his limousine to walk among the people of the ravaged neighborhoods that he toured. Could that have been due to possible safety concerns? Also, just how rich would he be if not for the western world buying all of the oil back in the day before anyone else really wanted it & how many refineries & chemical plants based on oil by products are there in Louisiana? There is at least one in Chalmette, La., just south east of New Orleans & the 9th. ward. There are many just up river between New Orleans & Baton Rouge & in Baton Rouge. Many of those plant workers live in the New Orleans area.

ENGLISH!
09-15-2013, 09:34 AM
I just watched that movie last night: Argo. Man, what a movie! :eek:

I wonder if Mr. Wilson is that CIA agent played by Ben Affleck who retired. Similar traits. Hmm. . .

Every country has its own militants, some more than others. Even America has militants like KKK and Black Panthers. Germany had Nazis. It does not mean all the citizens of the country are militant. Sometimes a country's citizens are victimized by their own militants. :frown:

Jen,

I agree with you. New Orleans is certainly a victim of it's inner city crime rep.

In this case, it is the proximity to the militants & their 'home' that puts EAU & Qatar in a bad feeling for safety reasons.

I don't know for sure but it seems to me that those two may be on the road to fostering global peace.

They just live too close to the bad guys for me regarding safety.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

JoeyA
09-15-2013, 10:33 AM
ENGLISH, maybe you should be a little more aware of the history of your
own area....and Qatar.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2008%2F04%2F30% 2Fus%2Fnationalspecial%2F30emir.html&ei=g8o1UqWaJpPg2wW2gIGIDQ&usg=AFQjCNGdgmMiLPZOadIwLfRhjoGi8n8fDw&sig2=Yvv9_hF22j9Ze4i16Ns7nQ&bvm=bv.52164340,d.b2I

Not every Muslim has a bomb strapped to his chest.....

I also know for a fact that the Kuwaiti people donated huge sums of money to the American Red Cross right here in New Orleans. My wife was a volunteer for the Red Cross and drove one of their very high dollar emergency vehicles used of serving catastrophically damaged areas. I remember at least a few of the vehicles were purchased with money from the Kuwati people.

I too, think English is painting with a broad brush that isn't needed or justified. His attempt to encourage boycotting the World Championships in Qatar are off mark and unwarranted but that is only my opinion.

“We saw what happened to Orleans,” the emir said in the interview. “We were watching on television. We are part of this society. It is good for everyone to help out. I really felt sorry for the people.” From the article you referenced, it is easy to see that there are good hearts all over the world. The emir's statement about "We are part of this society" lets me know that the world is changing for the better. There's room for improvement in every country but we won't get it done, painting every place as a terrorist haven.

Sure, there is danger just about anywhere you look but encouraging people to boycott tournaments in Qatar is unfair and reasonable. English is entitled to his opinion but on this subject, I differ.

I wouldn't hesitate to go to Qatar, especially for a pool tournament, but like others have mentioned, I would honor their laws and their customs while in their country.

In the meantime, I do hope they get the live streaming issues ironed out before the next big event.

JoeyA

ENGLISH!
09-15-2013, 11:15 AM
Sorry Joey,

I just can not picture my 28 year old daughter going to watch a pool tournament in Qatar, just south of IRAN with her German last name, even though we are not Jewish. Do you think Mr. Jewett could escort her safely? Did you read what others have said about military personnel not leaving the base for fear of their lives.

The rich country of Qatar that has made it's money by selling most of it's oil to the the western world (especially in the 'old' days) & perhaps refined right here in the Louisiana 'society' may be or becoming a fine country.

But at this point in time, it is just in a very bad neighborhood where westerners are concerned.

What would you say if for some reason next year's tournament was moved to Damascus or Tehran or Pyongyang, because they wanted to boost word wide perception.

You live in the New Orleans area. You should know that it's all about location, location, & then location.

No offence meant & none taken by me. I guess we are just looking through different binoculars.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

pro9dg
09-15-2013, 11:52 AM
I suppose it is reasonable to assume that in a thread of this nature that you can expect a wide spectrum of opinions.

But I am a very unpolitical person and think that we should try to focus on the sporting element of the situation.

Pool is a big thing in the Middle East and they are quickly developing World Class players. I have been to Iran where I was treated with the utmost respect and consideration by people who love the game. Doubtless there were people there who would hate me, but I never felt under any threat.

It is probably Pie In The Sky but maybe sport can lead the way in minimizing the differences between people of differing religeous convictions.

Take a look at this pool hall. It is in MECCA
294393

294394

pro9dg
09-15-2013, 11:59 AM
And here's one in Detroit

294395

FranCrimi
09-15-2013, 12:25 PM
Thanks FranCrimi :smile:

Well, yes; I agree that the situation in Europe has been for long far from perfect; however, a lot of work has been put to resolve this matter.
It is only fair to state that since the beginning of 2012 we do have a regular EuroTour for women so there is a huge improvement.
Check for info at:
http://www.eurotouronline.eu/default_etwomen.asp?db=eurotour&client=women (click at Calendar to see the list of previous events)

I am more interested in the other part of your previous statement:


The question is:
How exactly does (did) the BCA treat men and women players equal?
By not supporting any of them ??? :wink:
It has been stated here on countless occasions that BCA, for many years now, does nothing to support professional pool players, be it a man, a woman or a child. Are you relating to the long gone past ?
No offence intended, just curious about that.

Yes, you make a good point about the present situation in the U.S.. Currently, the BCA is not offering specific financial support to the men or women pros as far as I can tell.

My point was referring to the last 30 years, which should not be forgotten. There are many things that have not been made public over those years. There were times when the BCA helped subsidize both men and women's tours. They did not discriminate and offer more to the men than the women. Also for many years, they ran one of the largest pro events of the year in Las Vegas. The added money was identical per capita for both the men and women's division. They added over 2 million dollars over those years to those pro events in Las Vegas alone.

For a period of time, the BCA offered subsidies for men and women traveling abroad. Again, the amount given to each man or woman was exactly the same.

Even when the BCA could no longer offer funds from it's own treasury, it always encouraged it's members to support both the men and women whenever possible.

The situation is no longer a viable one, however, the BCA can not be accused of discriminating against the women players.

I'm glad to hear the the EPBF is addressing the issue of a women's tour in Europe.

ENGLISH!
09-15-2013, 12:28 PM
Pro9dg,

Why were you in Iran? Did you go there on vacation?
My guess would be that you were probably protected for some work related reason.

There is no doubt that 'they' have a lot of the western world's money that was used to buy their oil.

I'll stop there except to say the following.

I hope & pray that by next year all will be well in the middle east & the rest of the world.

Maybe like Rocky Balboa said, 'If I can change...& youse can change...then maybe we can all change.'

Maybe Pocket Billiards will do it. Somehow though...I don't think so.

I hope so...but I don't think so.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

FranCrimi
09-15-2013, 12:34 PM
Fran

The picture that you paint is not as bleak as you see it.

Last year the Iranian Federation sent six referees to officiate at the 2012 World 9 Ball.
They were all women and they were treated respectfully by the Qatar authorities. The also did a top class job..

Now ladies from Iran and Saudi Arabia are now able to compete in international sports events.

In Dubai The Ladies Tennis Open, top ladies player Shahar Peer now is accepted by the organisers and she is from Israel.

The Crown Prince of Dubai, who is also President of the Dubai Sports Council, has launched a special initiative aimed at encouraging ladies to play pool and snooker.

I am reminded of the joke:
It was the custom for ladies to walk 5 steps behind their male colleagues. Now they walk 5 paces in front/ Why the change................................? Landmines.

I think that those days are coming to an end

I'm glad to hear that they are making progress, Doug. That's certainly good news. However, these are still very small inroads and as far as I'm concerned, not good enough to warrant as the new home of the WPA. Let's see some programs open up there for women, including their hosting an international women's billiard event. Until then, I'm afraid it's mostly talk.

ENGLISH!
09-16-2013, 09:32 AM
We can't even keep a Naval Yard in Washington D.C. safe & some if not many want to play a World Championship in a country, Qatar, that is reaching out to the western world even though it resides just south of Iran.

I just don't see that logic.

pt109
09-16-2013, 10:05 AM
We can't even keep a Naval Yard in Washington D.C. safe & some if not many want to play a World Championship in a country, Qatar, that is reaching out to the western world even though it resides just south of Iran.

I just don't see that logic.

I'm not so sure that a country should be judged by its neighbors.....
I gambled in El Paso when I was a kid...the man wanted a rematch in
Jaurez....I took a taxi to check out the pool hall there...and took a pass.
Well, now Ciudad Jaurez is about 1,000 times worse.....
...but I'll still visit El Paso anytime I feel like.

ENGLISH!
09-16-2013, 10:54 AM
I'm not so sure that a country should be judged by its neighbors.....
I gambled in El Paso when I was a kid...the man wanted a rematch in
Jaurez....I took a taxi to check out the pool hall there...and took a pass.
Well, now Ciudad Jaurez is about 1,000 times worse.....
...but I'll still visit El Paso anytime I feel like.

PT,

So much misunderstanding...

I am not judging Qatar at all, & certainly not based on it's 'neighbor', Iran. I understand that they are two separate entities. Good people are at times stuck in a bad neighborhood.

I am also not relating crime in general to where monetary gain is usually the purpose of the criminal to what is certainly an attack on innocent individuals for revenge purposes or political reasons of a radical religious group who sees himself in heaven with 7 virgins for killing the enemies of god in the name of god that is backed & supported & taught by a nation & it's government.

If you can not see that difference & the difference in the danger then we can have no real legitimate discussion.

I think I would even feel safer playing or watching pool next door to a mexican drug lord's hacienda as an American than I would in Qatar just south across a water way from Iran.

If anyone want's to risk their own life to help Qatar put on a good face to the world, then that is certainly their prerogative.

I just think it was a mistake for the WPA to do what it has done & I would certainly support any western world player, or any player that passes on those events.

The timing of the WPA to locate the Championship in that region of the world is a mistake IMO or worse a possible sell out to those that would like to 'buy' the WPA's influence as was possibly suggested by Mr. Lee.

As I have also suggested, if that is the only location that the WPA could 'sell' the event with the dozen or so other world's richest cities possibly available, then perhaps the WPA should relinquish it's 'duties' to the game to a better salesman & manager.

And why for 4 years? Much can change in 4 years...or one.

Until the WPA was formed in 1987, it did not exist. 26 years is not that long in the history of the game. Maybe it is time for another change.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

MahnaMahna
09-16-2013, 11:03 AM
I have never seen so much misunderstanding!

Harumph

ENGLISH!
09-16-2013, 12:01 PM
I have never seen so much misunderstanding!

Harumph

I'm going to the ATI forum next. If you leave now maybe you can get there before me.

MahnaMahna
09-16-2013, 12:17 PM
I'm going to the ATI forum next. If you leave now maybe you can get there before me.

The abnormal testicle information forum? No thanks.

ENGLISH!
09-16-2013, 12:19 PM
The abnormal testicle information forum? No thanks.

Thanks for the good chuckle.:thumbup:

That was a GOOD one.

pooler
09-16-2013, 02:26 PM
So much misunderstanding...

...in heaven with 7 virgins ...

As a matter of fact most reliable sources claim it is actually 72 virgins :rolleyes:
Must admit that seems like much more of an incentive :happydance:
Does that change your perspective at all ??? ;)

ENGLISH!
09-16-2013, 03:01 PM
As a matter of fact most reliable sources claim it is actually 72 virgins :rolleyes:
Must admit that seems like much more of an incentive :happydance:
Does that change your perspective at all ??? ;)

Pooler,

Noooo, it does not change my perspective.

Though, that sounds more like a curse. Can you imagine 72 virgin females chattering away trying to convince each other who deserves to go first.

I wonder why 72? Maybe after 72 different females one's memory of the first one disappears & she is a virgin again.

Thanks for the chuckle.

Best Wishes,
Rick

naji
09-17-2013, 01:37 AM
We can't even keep a Naval Yard in Washington D.C. safe & some if not many want to play a World Championship in a country, Qatar, that is reaching out to the western world even though it resides just south of Iran.

I just don't see that logic.

Rick,
Qatar, like all other countries, holds Championships once or twice a year (not every day), and is protected by the best Air force in the world, US Al-Udeid Air Base; and Qatar is 200 miles a way from Iran separated by the sea its only border to Iran, and very secured boarders, There is no highways or roads between Iran and Qatar it is desert. You probably thinking like US, open highways between states, it is not like that over there. You need to visit.

Scaramouche
09-17-2013, 03:14 AM
Pooler,

Noooo, it does not change my perspective.

Though, that sounds more like a curse. Can you imagine 72 virgin females chattering away trying to convince each other who deserves to go first.

I wonder why 72? Maybe after 72 different females one's memory of the first one disappears & she is a virgin again.

Thanks for the chuckle.

Best Wishes,
Rick

Actually, it is a far worse curse than you imagine.
The 72 virgins are Roman Catholic nuns competing to convert the Muslim infidel.

sfleinen
09-17-2013, 04:20 AM
Rick,
Qatar, like all other countries, holds Championships once or twice a year (not every day), and is protected by the best Air force in the world, US Al-Udeid Air Base; and Qatar is 200 miles a way from Iran separated by the sea its only border to Iran, and very secured boarders, There is no highways or roads between Iran and Qatar it is desert. You probably thinking like US, open highways between states, it is not like that over there. You need to visit.

Naji:

Again, culturally-neutered Americans "keeping an eye on the world from a room with no windows."

Just witness what happened this past Sunday night (15 September 2013) when an Indian-American won the Miss America pageant. (Not only is she a U.S. citizen, but she was born and raised here in the U.S., btw.) Twitter lit up with ignorant racists referring to her as an "Arab." Here in America, the ignorance lightning bolt strikes twice -- not just on the racism front, but on basic geography knowledge as well.

Maybe that's just plain stupidity. Seems to be a LOT of that here.

-Sean

ENGLISH!
09-17-2013, 07:14 AM
Actually, it is a far worse curse than you imagine.
The 72 virgins are Roman Catholic nuns competing to convert the Muslim infidel.

Thanks for the good laugh. If I would have had coffee in my mouth I'd be cleaning my keyboard.

I don't think conversion is a Nun's job though.

Now what they would do is herd the 72 virgins to the other side of heaven to keep them away from the guy so that they stay virgins until they are married.

AND when he stuck out his hand to point to the one he likes the best, they would smack him on the knuckles with a ruler.

There's no commandment against smacking on the knuckles with rulers.

Thanks again for the good laugh.

Best,
Rick

Joe_Jaguar
09-17-2013, 07:29 AM
Naji:

Again, culturally-neutered Americans "keeping an eye on the world from a room with no windows."

Just witness what happened this past Sunday night (15 September 2013) when an Indian-American won the Miss America pageant. (Not only is she a U.S. citizen, but she was born and raised here in the U.S., btw.) Twitter lit up with ignorant racists referring to her as an "Arab." Here in America, the ignorance lightning bolt strikes twice -- not just on the racism front, but on basic geography knowledge as well.

Maybe that's just plain stupidity. Seems to be a LOT of that here.

-Sean

The Miss America pageant? They still hold that crap?!

So was the great Twitter tweets "racist" just because they referred to her as an Arab or was there actually something racist tweeted? Tweet Tweet :banghead:

ENGLISH!
09-17-2013, 07:41 AM
Rick,
Qatar, like all other countries, holds Championships once or twice a year (not every day), and is protected by the best Air force in the world, US Al-Udeid Air Base; and Qatar is 200 miles a way from Iran separated by the sea its only border to Iran, and very secured boarders, There is no highways or roads between Iran and Qatar it is desert. You probably thinking like US, open highways between states, it is not like that over there. You need to visit.

Mr. Naji,

I am not a racist nor geographically challenged as the Master of Deceptive Trolling has so 'eloquently' implied.

I know exactly where Qatar is in relation to Iran. I assisted in the arrangement for quite a bit of copper & refrigeration equipment to be shipped there & the EAU.

Given the turmoil in the region of the recent past & the fact that those two countries are not of the same faction as Iran & that there is a US military base in Qatar is exactly why I think that it is a bad idea for the WPA to award the World 9 Ball Championship to Doha for the next 4 years.

How many times do I have to say that I have nothing against those two counties or the Muslim religion.

Good people are sometimes stuck living in bad neighborhoods.

If you or anyone thinks that a terrorist or Iran could not attack those countries I'd say that you are delusional.

Mad men do not act rational & do not even consider the law or what is best for them.

That is my concern. If the US or a coalition sends 200 or so tomahawk missiles into Syria & perhaps one malfunctions & hits Iran, can you or anyone here on AZB guarantee what will or will not happen.

If my son was a Pro player planning on playing those tournaments or if my daughter wanted to go watch, I would beg them not to do so.

It's easy to sit here or there & say how ridiculous any apprehension regarding Qatar is & how safe it is, etc.

It's not so easy after things go wrong & loves ones have died.

In this instance I would rather be safe than sorry.

I don't swim across bayous with 9 foot alligators just a short swim upstream.

Sorry,
Rick

PS Regards & Best Wishes to You, Mr. Naji.

9BallEddie
09-17-2013, 09:59 AM
This thread has been the most interesting thread I've read in the short time I've been a member. Certainly a lot of misunderstanding and stubbornness but nonetheless entertaining for me.

I think the main point is where is this sport going to flourish and prosper the most. And, unfortunately for many people here, it simply is not in the US. At least not now and certainly not like it used to be.

According to an article here on azbilliards, the 9-ball championship just a few days ago in Qatar had over 1,000 cheering spectators. I watched a stream of the 14.1 championship hosted in the US just last night. Great matches particularly the final between Archer and Hohmann. Guess how many were watching that FREE stream? Just over 400. I can only imagine how may people would have watched if it were a PPV. The sport simply would not survive if it remained solely in the "comfortable" venues according to the minds of some here.

Joe_Jaguar
09-17-2013, 10:33 AM
This thread has been the most interesting thread I've read in the short time I've been a member. Certainly a lot of misunderstanding and stubbornness but nonetheless entertaining for me.

I think the main point is where is this sport going to flourish and prosper the most. And, unfortunately for many people here, it simply is not in the US. At least not now and certainly not like it used to be.

According to an article here on azbilliards, the 9-ball championship just a few days ago in Qatar had over 1,000 cheering spectators. I watched a stream of the 14.1 championship hosted in the US just last night. Great matches particularly the final between Archer and Hohmann. Guess how many were watching that FREE stream? Just over 400. I can only imagine how may people would have watched if it were a PPV. The sport simply would not survive if it remained solely in the "comfortable" venues according to the minds of some here.

Out of curiosity. were there any photos posted showing those cheering 1000+ fans in that sports club?

9BallEddie
09-17-2013, 10:56 AM
Out of curiosity. were there any photos posted showing those cheering 1000+ fans in that sports club?

I saw no images of the crowd to prove there were 1,000 fans. My only reference is the article. But I've never seen someone's life in jeopardy near Qatar either. I've only read about that too (in this thread I might add) :wink:

DogsPlayingPool
09-17-2013, 11:21 AM
I'm not naive enough to think there couldn't possibly have been some back room dealings (this is pool after all), but the event is not exactly like the Olympics where cities are fighting for the rights to host. So if a place offers up front to commit for 4 years to write a check for the added money and put on the event, it merits serious consideration. At least the WPA has guaranteed there will be a 9 Ball WC with the required added money for the next few years.

JoeyA
09-17-2013, 12:26 PM
Sorry Joey,

I just can not picture my 28 year old daughter going to watch a pool tournament in Qatar, just south of IRAN with her German last name, even though we are not Jewish. Do you think Mr. Jewett could escort her safely? Did you read what others have said about military personnel not leaving the base for fear of their lives.

The rich country of Qatar that has made it's money by selling most of it's oil to the the western world (especially in the 'old' days) & perhaps refined right here in the Louisiana 'society' may be or becoming a fine country.

But at this point in time, it is just in a very bad neighborhood where westerners are concerned.

What would you say if for some reason next year's tournament was moved to Damascus or Tehran or Pyongyang, because they wanted to boost word wide perception.

You live in the New Orleans area. You should know that it's all about location, location, & then location.

No offence meant & none taken by me. I guess we are just looking through different binoculars.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

I know many things Rick.

I know that the sky isn't falling.
I know that each person can make up their own mind about safety issues when traveling and that there is no need for a Paul Revere, shouting til he goes hoarse, that there is danger ahead.

I know that it is folly to urge other people to boycott this event because of your own personal concerns.

I wouldn't hesitate to go to "The Peaceful Land" (Pyongyang) at the invitation of Kim Jong-un but I would probably contact my buddy Dennis Rodman first. :winknudge:

JoeyA

ENGLISH!
09-17-2013, 08:14 PM
I know many things Rick.

I know that the sky isn't falling.
I know that each person can make up their own mind about safety issues when traveling and that there is no need for a Paul Revere, shouting til he goes hoarse, that there is danger ahead.

I know that it is folly to urge other people to boycott this event because of your own personal concerns.

I wouldn't hesitate to go to "The Peaceful Land" (Pyongyang) at the invitation of Kim Jong-un but I would probably contact my buddy Dennis Rodman first. :winknudge:

JoeyA

Joey,

As always... it is up to each individual.

I did not specifically ask anyone to boycot, per say, I just said if it were me...or if I were...or I would suggest...

If you would visit Pyongyang at the request of Kim Jong-un then we are just two different types of people.

The rest deleted as it would belong in the NPR sub forum.

Best Wishes,
Rick

naji
09-18-2013, 01:34 AM
Joey,

As always... it is up to each individual.

I did not specifically ask anyone to boycot, per say, I just said if it were me...or if I were...or I would suggest...

If you would visit Pyongyang at the request of Kim Jong-un then we are just two different types of people.

The rest deleted as it would belong in the NPR sub forum.

Best Wishes,
Rick

Hi Rick,
Please do not take what i am about to say personal, when you learned to play pool; do you remember yourself many years back, focusing on certain aspects of the game, come to find years later it has nothing to do with pocketing a ball, later you changed, and continue changing as you gain knowledge and experience, or maybe some statements you said in the past about pool and years down the road someone corrects you and you admit you were wrong all the time. I am afraid to say that you and many many other people in the US and all over the world have none or very limited exposure and real experience to other cultures or possibly only hear one sided news feed all the time; therefore, you will never be able to express other opinions besides what you know or hear; just like pool experience; we can write about it much better than a newbie.

What i am trying to get out of this, if two people or more insists and argues about their beliefs, ideas, or opinions, it does not necessarily mean these people are racist, biased, suborned or haters it is simply one has more/less experience/knowledge than the other. Having said that which camp you like to be on? are you welling to acquire more knowledge, travel, and be on the experienced side or remain focused on what you know and side with those that have same level of experience you have.

I know the answer, because when it comes to pool; i know which side you want to be on. I know we all fear the unknown, and certainly would advise against visiting Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, those are red hot regions; not because of being US citizen, but because everyone in danger. Other cities that do not have wars in it, i do not see any issues to visit. At the end of the day, no matter where you go, Paris, Rome, there will be poor and hungry people that have no discrimination to who they attack; actually my 18 years old son, and his american buddies went to Rome after HS graduation, got stopped and mugged in the heart of Rome; luckily no injuries just valuables taken; i would't tell people do not go to Rome, i will certainly warn them. It is luck of the draw, like pool!!

The truth is, there are so many other reasons that Qatar was picked, one of which the ease of getting visa at the airport vs wait months to get a visa to US, or most European countries, another one, location, i personally hate a long flight, and rather just fly 2-4 hours when i fly for work. I am sure there are many other reasons of which we do not know and could make a whole lot of sense if we know them..As far as the stream, i heard the head of the QBSF said there will be live stream next event, and i expect multiple tables, they are working on it, the issue is Alkass channel have all rights to this event but IMO seems "biased to the local team" , i am hoping they get neutral party to stream, i bet if Accustats applied they will be granted some rights, with English language commentators like Billy I and Danny DiLiberto, i love those guys stories !

Later.

sfleinen
09-18-2013, 05:14 AM
The Miss America pageant? They still hold that crap?!

So was the great Twitter tweets "racist" just because they referred to her as an Arab or was there actually something racist tweeted? Tweet Tweet :banghead:

There were racist comments *in addition* to dismissively calling her an Arab. (I get your point; misidentifying someone's race isn't itself racist. But you should see some of those comments.)

Judge for yourself -- hit google up. Plenty of write-ups and captures (of the tweets) abound.
-Sean

ENGLISH!
09-18-2013, 08:58 AM
Hi Rick,
Please do not take what i am about to say personal, when you learned to play pool; do you remember yourself many years back, focusing on certain aspects of the game, come to find years later it has nothing to do with pocketing a ball, later you changed, and continue changing as you gain knowledge and experience, or maybe some statements you said in the past about pool and years down the road someone corrects you and you admit you were wrong all the time. I am afraid to say that you and many many other people in the US and all over the world have none or very limited exposure and real experience to other cultures or possibly only hear one sided news feed all the time; therefore, you will never be able to express other opinions besides what you know or hear; just like pool experience; we can write about it much better than a newbie.

What i am trying to get out of this, if two people or more insists and argues about their beliefs, ideas, or opinions, it does not necessarily mean these people are racist, biased, suborned or haters it is simply one has more/less experience/knowledge than the other. Having said that which camp you like to be on? are you welling to acquire more knowledge, travel, and be on the experienced side or remain focused on what you know and side with those that have same level of experience you have.

I know the answer, because when it comes to pool; i know which side you want to be on. I know we all fear the unknown, and certainly would advise against visiting Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, those are red hot regions; not because of being US citizen, but because everyone in danger. Other cities that do not have wars in it, i do not see any issues to visit. At the end of the day, no matter where you go, Paris, Rome, there will be poor and hungry people that have no discrimination to who they attack; actually my 18 years old son, and his american buddies went to Rome after HS graduation, got stopped and mugged in the heart of Rome; luckily no injuries just valuables taken; i would't tell people do not go to Rome, i will certainly warn them. It is luck of the draw, like pool!!

The truth is, there are so many other reasons that Qatar was picked, one of which the ease of getting visa at the airport vs wait months to get a visa to US, or most European countries, another one, location, i personally hate a long flight, and rather just fly 2-4 hours when i fly for work. I am sure there are many other reasons of which we do not know and could make a whole lot of sense if we know them..As far as the stream, i heard the head of the QBSF said there will be live stream next event, and i expect multiple tables, they are working on it, the issue is Alkass channel have all rights to this event but IMO seems "biased to the local team" , i am hoping they get neutral party to stream, i bet if Accustats applied they will be granted some rights, with English language commentators like Billy I and Danny DiLiberto, i love those guys stories !

Later.

Mr. Naji,

I understand most of your points. The one about flying time does not make total sense. While Doha may be centrally located for that hemisphere it is still 1/2 way around the world from somewhere & a 1/4 of the way too.

If it it so easy to get a visa then I would imagine that it would also be easy for a terrorist group to have someone get a visa. You and others keep mixing up normal crime like the one's that got robbed in Rome with mad men trying to kill people for political & religious reasons.

As I have said numerous times, I do not have a problem with Qatar other than where it is in the world at this unstable & volatile time. If it were known that one(1) player was of the Jewish faith a terrorist bombing MIGHT occur for just that reason & 'they' would call it justified & say that the others that died also 'deserved' it for just being in the vicinity of one of such faith. Such is the religious intolerance of certain factions in that region of the world.

The risk of losing one's life does not balance with the playing or even possibly winning a pool tournament even if it is a world title.

There are places that I certainly will not go in New Orleans to play pool or any reason for the normal crime factor reasons.

Now take that small scale & expand it state wide, some would say that they would not play pool in New Orleans. That is your point & I understand it. While I might know where to go that is 'safe'. They would not.

The difference is in New Orleans or Rome we are talking about normal crime. In the region of Qatar we are taking about suicide bombers & potential missile strikes.

I doubt that anyone is not going to go based on what I have said, but if someone does choose to not go & something does happen maybe I will get a communication saying it was me that made them think twice.

As I have also said a few times, I hope & pray that nothing happens & that that area is at peace by next year & ASAP. I pray for that as well as the rest of the world. Although I have my doubts that it will happen any time soon unless there is Divine intervention.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

PS I also think that it is a bit suspicious that the WPA would award Doha the tournament for 4 years. Is it ALL about the money. A prostitute would probably choose to go with whom ever is offering to pay the most. Why in Doha at this unstable & volatile time vs Tokyo or Moscow or Hawaii or Sydney. Will every world title now be held where the one man operation WPA is residing. Remember when & why the WPA was formed in 1987. In my opinion a new structure is now needed, but that is the topic for a different thread.

PSS I have had time to consider a question I asked earlier regarding the tournament being held in Damascus or Tehran. The tournament might actually be safer if it were held in Tehran. Should Americans or Westerners or a player of the Jewish faith compete in Tehran? Again that a topic for a different thread, probably in NPR.

NYC cue dude
09-18-2013, 09:03 AM
Out of curiosity. were there any photos posted showing those cheering 1000+ fans in that sports club?

I was shocked to see the stands full of people. 1000 easy. Thorsten also confirmed this as they were all rooting against him, lol

Edit: Excuse me. You asked if these photos had been posted. I'm not sure about that. Several times during the 2 matches that were made available (semis and finals) the cameras panned the audience to show the number of people.

Joe_Jaguar
09-18-2013, 09:43 AM
I was shocked to see the stands full of people. 1000 easy. Thorsten also confirmed this as they were all rooting against him, lol

Edit: Excuse me. You asked if these photos had been posted. I'm not sure about that. Several times during the 2 matches that were made available (semis and finals) the cameras panned the audience to show the number of people.

Ok, thanks for the confirmation. Guess it wasn't just a WPA puff piece of a write-up..

pro9dg
09-18-2013, 03:53 PM
At the 2012 WPA World 9-ball Championship, the Qatar Billiards and Snooker Federation invited a group of women referees to Doha to officiate the matches. They did an incredible job, totally professional, and got rave reviews from all the players and officials. The only thing that was different from any other match was that the players could not shake hands with the referees.

Also, to give you an idea of how pool can be a force for good in this crazy world, Qatar is a mostly Sunni country, while Iran is Shia Muslim. But the QBSF invited these women in the spirit of sportsmanship and friendship. Thanks to Ted Lerner, press officer of the WPA for these images.

FranCrimi
09-18-2013, 03:57 PM
At the 2012 WPA World 9-ball Championship, the Qatar Billiards and Snooker Federation invited a group of women referees to Doha to officiate the matches. They did an incredible job, totally professional, and got rave reviews from all the players and officials. The only thing that was different from any other match was that the players could not shake hands with the referees.

Also, to give you an idea of how pool can be a force for good in this crazy world, Qatar is a mostly Sunni country, while Iran is Shia Muslim. But the QBSF invited these women in the spirit of sportsmanship and friendship. Thanks to Ted Lerner, press officer of the WPA for these images.

The progress is good, but it's not good enough. You know that as well as I do, Doug. Not nearly good enough.

pooler
09-18-2013, 04:11 PM
The progress is good, but it's not good enough. You know that as well as I do, Doug. Not nearly good enough.

Considering what we see on pictures in Doug's post, Michaela Tabb might have a totally different opinion on such course of things :thumbup:
Do they also Referee in Snooker ???:sorry:

Johnnyt
09-18-2013, 04:37 PM
You can paint it anyway you want, but if someone dug deep enough they would find it's just all about the money. Whoever let the WPA take over pool was not thinking or was paid in some way. Johnnyt

ENGLISH!
09-18-2013, 04:49 PM
You can paint it anyway you want, but if someone dug deep enough they would find it's just all about the money. Whoever let the WPA take over pool was not thinking or was paid in some way. Johnnyt

That's my line of thinking too. The BCA did not have the World Wide Vision & either just let it go or sold it out.

I had a bit of a novel idea. How about the country of any World Champion has the right of first refusal for the following year's event at a minimum of a 5 % increase in the prize money with the player & the WPA board deciding if multiple entrants make hosting offers.

Pidge
09-18-2013, 05:45 PM
I've got a buddy who's working in Qatar at the moment. He's worked all over the middle east in the last 6 years. He's out there with his wife, daughter and 2 sons. He says the people are very friendly and its a beautiful country. Can't be such a bad place eh? Amazing how many people have tunnel vision because they're drip fed BS by news organisations who try to make us believe certain parts of the world are out to get us. I wouldn't think twice about going to Qatar with my girlfriend to watch some pool. There is a threat of terrorism and crime in any part of the world, be it Europe, America, Asia or the Middle East.

No doubting that Qatar got the go ahead because they offered up the most money. Same thing happened in the football Worl Cup. So what? Pool going to the place that offers the most money is the best thing at the moment. Packed out venues, TV time, exposure to people who otherwise would get to see it and big money going to the players.

I wish Qatar and the event the best of luck.

ENGLISH!
09-18-2013, 06:01 PM
s.

I wish Qatar and the event the best of luck.

Pidge,

So do I.

I also wish the event & the region more than just luck.

But over 100,000 people have died in Syria. How many in Libya, Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc.

And we're not talking about 'normal' crime.

Anyone that swims the bayou with 9' alligators all around better be a very good swimmer or have a big knife.

Qatar, EAU, etc. are stuck there. I'm not visiting them anytime soon.

Who knows, by next year all may be different.

I certainly hope so.

Best,
Rick

Scaramouche
09-19-2013, 03:23 AM
Qatar created Al Jazeera to broadcast dissenting views, a new concept in Middle East communication. :D
Maybe Fox should try it.

ENGLISH!
09-21-2013, 12:08 PM
Terrorists attack in Israeli owned shopping mall in Kenya. Was it 13 killed & some believed to be Americans?

Was it safe the day before yesterday?

I'm just saying.

Best Wishes to All including the WPA & Doha.

pt109
09-21-2013, 12:31 PM
Terrorists attack in Israeli owned shopping mall in Kenya. Was it 13 killed & some believed to be Americans?

Was it safe the day before yesterday?

I'm just saying.

Best Wishes to All including the WPA & Doha.

I'm curious....what has this got to do with Qatar?

ENGLISH!
09-21-2013, 12:49 PM
I'm curious....what has this got to do with Qatar?

It's just the terrorism attack potential against Americans, Israelis, or any 'Westerners' that can become reality on any given day.

Yes it can happen anywhere. But one is less likely to get bit by walking through a field with a couple of snakes than you are walking through a large dry gulch with hundreds of snakes.

It's like retail space. It's all about the location & proximity to potential customers AND is it a relatively safe location.

Qatar's location, location, location...is not the best IMO at this particular time in history.

As I have said, I hope & pray that all is well by next year or ASAP, but it certainly looks like things are getting worse, not better.

Best Wishes to You & All,
Rick

thewhiffer
09-21-2013, 12:58 PM
My concern is that the purse is not going in the right direction. The participants by country have become skewed out of proportion. To award this length of term takes away from being able to control these factors proplerly

ENGLISH!
09-21-2013, 01:18 PM
My concern is that the purse is not going in the right direction. The participants by country have become skewed out of proportion. To award this length of term takes away from being able to control these factors proplerly

Yes. That too.

I have questioned why 4 years. There are quite a few questions of some things that just don't seem logical, at least not to me.

I had an idea about the country of the winner of a World Championship having the right of first refusal with at least a 5 % increase in money with a commitee of maybe the winner & the board deciding between any multiple bidders.

Just an idea. It might move the tournament around the world for even more exposure.

Best,
Rick

Scaramouche
09-21-2013, 05:18 PM
Terrorists attack in Israeli owned shopping mall in Kenya. Was it 13 killed & some believed to be Americans?

Was it safe the day before yesterday?

I'm just saying.

Best Wishes to All including the WPA & Doha.

Damn!
Kenya is giving America competition.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/mass-shootings-us_n_3935978.html

But America is intent on closing any firepower gap.

This was in a catalog in the mail yesterday.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=1504135

Less time reloading at the range
but they really mean less time reloading on your slaughtering spree.

They sell the ammo for about 30 cents a round in a volume order.
Shooting off that magazine would cost only $22.50 - cheaper than a round of golf, doesn't take nearly as much time, and will get you bigger headlines..