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Dr.V
09-15-2013, 09:54 PM
I am looking at a 9' GC IV with glossy black finish and GC V chrome castings. Table is immaculate and comes with Centennial kit and Brunswick GC wall rack. What is the approximate value? How does it compare to a Diamond Pro-Am? Which would you choose, why? Thanks.

realkingcobra
09-15-2013, 10:21 PM
I am looking at a 9' GC IV with glossy black finish and GC V chrome castings. Table is immaculate and comes with Centennial kit and Brunswick GC wall rack. What is the approximate value? How does it compare to a Diamond Pro-Am? Which would you choose, why? Thanks.

Do a search, you'll find your answers there;)

Johnnyt
09-15-2013, 10:27 PM
I am looking at a 9' GC IV with glossy black finish and GC V chrome castings. Table is immaculate and comes with Centennial kit and Brunswick GC wall rack. What is the approximate value? How does it compare to a Diamond Pro-Am? Which would you choose, why? Thanks.

A Doctor should be able to buy a new table. :smile:. Johnnyt

DogsPlayingPool
09-15-2013, 10:45 PM
Gold Crowns play great. A little different than a Diamond, mainly due to the Diamond having a deeper shelf.

Having said that, I can't tell you enough that how well it plays depends on how well it is set up. Don't find a mechanic, find a good mechanic. Even if it costs a little more, it's more than worth it to have the right guy set up your table. :smile:

ROB.M
09-16-2013, 12:38 AM
Gold Crowns play great. A little different than a Diamond, mainly due to the Diamond having a deeper shelf.

Having said that, I can't tell you enough that how well it plays depends on how well it is set up. Don't find a mechanic, find a good mechanic. Even if it costs a little more, it's more than worth it to have the right guy set up your table. :smile:

-
Ditto' I'm a GC guy myself, but I guess it's what you prefer.
Flip a coin and pull the trigger on the winner'

Rob.M

Rob.M

44Runner
09-16-2013, 12:49 AM
I went Diamond simply because that seemed to be the way the wind has shifted in the pool world but I still love a nice GC. There isn't a bad choice between the two. Pick your favorite and have fun.

Poolhalljunkie
09-16-2013, 02:18 AM
I am looking at a 9' GC IV with glossy black finish and GC V chrome castings. Table is immaculate and comes with Centennial kit and Brunswick GC wall rack. What is the approximate value? How does it compare to a Diamond Pro-Am? Which would you choose, why? Thanks.


If price wasn't the issue I would go for the Diamond Paragon.

With price considerations I think the Pro Am is the better deal, seeing as how most diamonds are already set up with the preferred pocket dimensions.
Most Gold Crowns require rail work to get the pockets to play right. Any rail work done to a Diamond would only be done to upgrade to the Blue Label specs.

SCCues
09-16-2013, 04:46 AM
Gold Crowns play great. A little different than a Diamond, mainly due to the Diamond having a deeper shelf.

Having said that, I can't tell you enough that how well it plays depends on how well it is set up. Don't find a mechanic, find a good mechanic. Even if it costs a little more, it's more than worth it to have the right guy set up your table. :smile:

After all these years of companies building fine pool tables and it still has to come to "I hope I can get a good table mechanic to set my new GC or Diamond table up for me". Will pool tables ever be built where you don't need an expert to set one up? I recently had my table moved to my new home and I had to get the guys that moved and set it up to come back and re-level the slate and seal the joints in between the slate!

iusedtoberich
09-16-2013, 08:19 AM
I am looking at a 9' GC IV with glossy black finish and GC V chrome castings. Table is immaculate and comes with Centennial kit and Brunswick GC wall rack. What is the approximate value? How does it compare to a Diamond Pro-Am? Which would you choose, why? Thanks.

How do you put GC5 corner castings on a GC4? That seems impossible to me, unless you replaced all the formica as well. Am I missing something obvious?

JoeW
09-16-2013, 08:43 AM
I had a CG III for 20 years, moved it myself several times. I would buy a GC IV in a heart beat. The industrial quality construction is not easily found in other products.

fastone371
09-16-2013, 09:04 AM
How do you put GC5 corner castings on a GC4? That seems impossible to me, unless you replaced all the formica as well. Am I missing something obvious?

I thought I heard Brunswick offered a GCV upgrade for the older GCs where you basically put the GCV rails on an existing older GC. Never actually seen it done just heard about it though.

realkingcobra
09-16-2013, 09:44 AM
I had a CG III for 20 years, moved it myself several times. I would buy a GC IV in a heart beat. The industrial quality construction is not easily found in other products.

The GC3 don't have any frame issues, the GC4 does;)

realkingcobra
09-16-2013, 09:46 AM
I thought I heard Brunswick offered a GCV upgrade for the older GCs where you basically put the GCV rails on an existing older GC. Never actually seen it done just heard about it though.

Brunswick has always offered the newer rails/skirts/pockets for sale without the rest of the table, as the rails will bolt onto any GC produced in the past.

realkingcobra
09-16-2013, 09:49 AM
After all these years of companies building fine pool tables and it still has to come to "I hope I can get a good table mechanic to set my new GC or Diamond table up for me". Will pool tables ever be built where you don't need an expert to set one up? I recently had my table moved to my new home and I had to get the guys that moved and set it up to come back and re-level the slate and seal the joints in between the slate!

There's really no such thing as a fool proof pool table that an untrained table installer can't screw up it they don't have the correct training to do the job they're hired to do, and cloth/cushion/slate/table manufactures look at that problem as...it's not their problem, they just put it all together to create the pool table. Once sold, it's out of their hands:(

iusedtoberich
09-16-2013, 10:12 AM
Brunswick has always offered the newer rails/skirts/pockets for sale without the rest of the table, as the rails will bolt onto any GC produced in the past.

I can't imagine anyone doing that to a GC4 unless someone went to the original rails with an axe. Just doesn't make sense for a newer table. I think its more likely the description of the table for sale might not be accurate.

iusedtoberich
09-16-2013, 10:16 AM
There's really no such thing as a fool proof pool table that an untrained table installer can't screw up it they don't have the correct training to do the job they're hired to do, and cloth/cushion/slate/table manufactures look at that problem as...it's not their problem, they just put it all together to create the pool table. Once sold, it's out of their hands:(

There is always things that can be done in the design of a product, to make it easier to assemble properly. Its up to the designer to want to do that, perhaps by working together with the installer during the design.

It might not be to the level of "fool proof so that any monkey can install a table", but there is always room for improvement.

DogsPlayingPool
09-16-2013, 10:27 AM
After all these years of companies building fine pool tables and it still has to come to "I hope I can get a good table mechanic to set my new GC or Diamond table up for me". Will pool tables ever be built where you don't need an expert to set one up? I recently had my table moved to my new home and I had to get the guys that moved and set it up to come back and re-level the slate and seal the joints in between the slate!

There's really no such thing as a fool proof pool table that an untrained table installer can't screw up it they don't have the correct training to do the job they're hired to do, and cloth/cushion/slate/table manufactures look at that problem as...it's not their problem, they just put it all together to create the pool table. Once sold, it's out of their hands:(

I agree. Especially in regard to a used GC. Keeping in mind how long many of these Brunswicks have been in service, well before the trend to tighter pockets. As a result, many Gold Crowns have been hacked on time and again by guys that don't know what they are doing when it comes to installing new cushions and tightening pockets. And if you find an untouched GC chances are you want the buckets brought tighter, in which case you want someone who knows how to correctly extend the sub-rails rather than simply shimming the snot out of it. Further, even if you buy one that is exactly how you want it, you'd be surprised at how many "trained professionals" don't even know how to properly stretch bed cloth or level a table.

I'll say it again - if you are buying an excellent product like a GC or Diamond, the mechanic may indeed be the most important component of ending up with a great playing table. BTW, I'm not a mechanic, just a player who appreciates a table that plays well.;)

realkingcobra
09-16-2013, 10:47 AM
There is always things that can be done in the design of a product, to make it easier to assemble properly. Its up to the designer to want to do that, perhaps by working together with the installer during the design.

It might not be to the level of "fool proof so that any monkey can install a table", but there is always room for improvement.

Diamond is about the most brainless table there is to set up, but I've come behind someone else's work...and asked myself time and time again...what in the hell were they thinking when they set this or that table up....I mean, hell...all the parts are clearly numbered or marked where they go....so...WHY are they not put together correctly?!?!?

iusedtoberich
09-16-2013, 11:38 AM
Diamond is about the most brainless table there is to set up, but I've come behind someone else's work...and asked myself time and time again...what in the hell were they thinking when they set this or that table up....I mean, hell...all the parts are clearly numbered or marked where they go....so...WHY are they not put together correctly?!?!?

There is a perfect example. Diamond can design the rails so they are impossible to misassemble, and not rely on a mechanic looking for numbers to line up.

Another example is the markings you put on simonis to consistently stretch the cloth the same amount. Those can be put on by simonis in their factory.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, just that you can put more thought into the design of something, and then make the necessary skill of the installer be less. Its the whole way the design world works: Make the design as easy as possible, that you can hire unskilled workers to do the job. This is true from everything from fast food employees, to people working in an automotive assembly line.

realkingcobra
09-16-2013, 01:44 PM
There is a perfect example. Diamond can design the rails so they are impossible to misassemble, and not rely on a mechanic looking for numbers to line up.

Another example is the markings you put on simonis to consistently stretch the cloth the same amount. Those can be put on by simonis in their factory.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, just that you can put more thought into the design of something, and then make the necessary skill of the installer be less. Its the whole way the design world works: Make the design as easy as possible, that you can hire unskilled workers to do the job. This is true from everything from fast food employees, to people working in an automotive assembly line.

When houses start wiring themselves, and putting in their own pluming, I'll agree with you. But, there's no substitute for knowing your trade. Working on a pool table will never be like checking your own groceries out at the local grocery store...just scan the price and bag-it. Installing and setting up a pool table...IS the most basic job there is when it comes to working on them, you don't have to be a real table mechanic to get that job done, but at least learn how to do it right in the first place....THAT is what's lacking in this industry of "installers"...because the customers ALLOW it to happen, but not asking first...do you know what you're doing? Most all customers feel like it's no big deal to set up a pool table, which is WHY these guys get away with the things they do....and get PAID!

JoeW
09-16-2013, 03:31 PM
Had an English Professor ask our class of undergraduates, “Can you install a toilet?” then he asked, “Can you put on a roof?” To all those who said “no” he said, “So what the hell are you doing in college? You can't keep a roof over your head and you can't keep yourself clean?

As an “older” student I could do both, but he had a point.

I can also install a pool table, I did it about five times. Never had any real problems. Maybe had to readjust for level after the floor settled. One time I had to put 4 X 4 posts in the basement under the table legs so the table would stay level. Never had any real trouble changing cloth, rails or whatever. Even refinished the sides of the table after my son-in-law left it broken down outside for a year.

Course my work never compared to King Cobra's (I have seen photos of his fantastic work)but it worked well enough for me and friends who could shoot reasonably well.

So if you can install a toilet, fix a roof and do other handy man stuff, a pool table is just one more piece of equipment. RTFM

realkingcobra
09-16-2013, 03:41 PM
Had an English Professor ask our class of undergraduates, “Can you install a toilet?” then he asked, “Can you put on a roof?” To all those who said “no” he said, “So what the hell are you doing in college? You can't keep a roof over your head and you can't keep yourself clean?

As an “older” student I could do both, but he had a point.

I can also install a pool table, I did it about five times. Never had any real problems. Maybe had to readjust for level after the floor settled. One time I had to put 4 X 4 posts in the basement under the table legs so the table would stay level. Never had any real trouble changing cloth, rails or whatever. Even refinished the sides of the table after my son-in-law left it broken down outside for a year.

Course my work never compared to King Cobra's (I have seen photos of his fantastic work)but it worked well enough for me and friends who could shoot reasonably well.

So if you can install a toilet, fix a roof and do other handy man stuff, a pool table is just one more piece of equipment. RTFM

Joe..DYI'ers are a rare breed of people in todays world;)

fastone371
09-17-2013, 08:58 AM
There is a perfect example. Diamond can design the rails so they are impossible to misassemble, and not rely on a mechanic looking for numbers to line up.

Another example is the markings you put on simonis to consistently stretch the cloth the same amount. Those can be put on by simonis in their factory.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, just that you can put more thought into the design of something, and then make the necessary skill of the installer be less. Its the whole way the design world works: Make the design as easy as possible, that you can hire unskilled workers to do the job. This is true from everything from fast food employees, to people working in an automotive assembly line.

Easier said than done. Cars are pretty much built that way and you could not even begin to believe how bad people eff them up. Everyone has a neighbor who works on cars, what they should be asking this neighbor is does he actually fix any or just work on them.:eek:

His Boy Elroy
09-17-2013, 10:31 PM
Brunswick has always offered the newer rails/skirts/pockets for sale without the rest of the table, as the rails will bolt onto any GC produced in the past.
I'M reluctant to make another reference to my Rozel Minnesota Fats table in fear that a few posters might instantly put me on their ignore list, but is it possible I could purchase GC rails and have them installed on my table? That would be exactly what I'm looking for. The table has gone off level 5 times in 42 years. The balls bounce weakly off the cushions because as a few mechanics theorized from looking at the pics, the rails are made out of fibrewood. I confirmed this as the case. The only thing I want is the ball to bounce properly. I simply can't get in position for a break shot in 14.1 the way the ball bounces now. If I have to buy a new table to improve things, I will; but if it is possible to install GC rails on my table, that would be great.