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nineballsafety8
09-17-2013, 10:18 AM
So, before anyone gets their panties in a twist... I am going to go on a medium rant about cues and why there is so much "perfect hit" crap going on.

SO.....

I have been playing off and on for about a decade, and at one point was playing 5+ hrs a day, 365... since joining the Army, I no longer have that luxury. However, in my several years as an avid hobbyist, I have been through upwards of 20 cues. I was always looking for the next big thing when it came to cues and technology and who was the new hot cuemaker... blah blah blah

After spending WAY TOO MUCH MONEY on cues over the years, it has become evident to me that what you spent, or who's name is on your cue is pretty pointless.

For me its all about feel. I like a cue that gives me good feedback, and there is a certain sound that I like my cues to make when I hit a ball well (mostly the tip and ferrule combination account for the sound). So, I have to ask myself, why do I keep looking for the next best thing, when I have now and have had SEVERAL cues in the past that play great.

And what I realized, was that it was 2 fold. The main fun for me was the HUNT, I love doing the research and dreaming up what I think might make me happy. But more importantly, and the part that has my feathers ruffled... is that PART of me was caring about what other peoples reaction were when I answered the question "hey, what kind of cue is that".

SO... what did I do? I benched all of my high dollar equipment, and bought a "McDermott" LUCKY cue... $39 from Amazon PRIME... and guess what fellas (and ladies)... IT PLAYS GREAT. So what if it was made in china, or taiwan, or the moon... i don't care if it was made by retarded monkeys with polio... as long as it plays well.

So will I continue to look for the Tascarella's, Szamboti's, Southwest's, Sugartree's, and whoever else might make people go ooooh and ahhhh... ya probably. But it will no longer be becaue I feel I need to validate myself as a "pool player"... im going to validate myself as a POOL PLAYER, by calling fouls on myself (regardless of if my opponent sees it), by being the first one to extend my hand for a worthy handshake to my opponent (win or lose), by never complaining about rolls (they are good and bad, and both players are on the same table), and by enjoying THE GAME!!!

If I decide I want to buy a nice cue, it will be to appreciate the hardwork and craftsmanship of the person behind the lathe... it will no longer be to give myself "the edge" above the next guy.

MY edge will come from hard work and dedication when I am at the table.



Curious as to your thoughts?

please discuss ;)

9BallEddie
09-17-2013, 10:26 AM
GREAT POST!!

I agree 100%. I currently play with a Lucasi and I like how it plays. I just don't like how I play. :)

MahnaMahna
09-17-2013, 10:34 AM
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.

RiCHiE$RiCH
09-17-2013, 10:35 AM
I've thought like that forever. It's not the cue. It's the player. In a cue, hit is most important. What makes me like a cue is craftsmanship, history, and beauty. And I could care less what someone else thinks about a cue I'm shooting with. Even though I have some nice custom cues ill still grab a cue off the rack and have a good time. I guess it's just a "to each his own" thing.

nineballsafety8
09-17-2013, 10:37 AM
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.

Ford focus :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuDN2bCIyus

Not being contrary, but can you be more specific? What could you do with a $4k black boar that you couldnt do with a $150 lucasi? and be honest... given that it is in the hands of B+ or better player.

9BallEddie
09-17-2013, 10:43 AM
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.

Not a good comparison as a Mercedes can outperform a Focus regardless of the driver's skills. Just put it on a dyno.

The same cannot be said about a pool cue.

ND Fan
09-17-2013, 10:43 AM
I've been playing pool and golf most of my life. In both sports there has always been guys who have to have the name, then the price, then they feel like they are somehow superior, not because of how they play but what they play. I have about $100 in my pocket cue and it's nothing fancy although I like it, it hits a little hard for my taste but I know what kind of player I am so I get by. If I get better maybe I'll look for something with a little less tinky feel. For years I had no more than about $200 in my golf bag. Some home made stuff, some stuff I won. There is no name or price that impresses me. If you play great and you can afford whatever you play with more power to you. If you're impressed with that, it's ok, just know that I am not. I am impressed by a guy who can run 40 balls or more in straight pool, I am impressed by stringing 4 or 5 birdies in a row. Everything else is just for for your ego. If I thought I was good enough I'd probably buy a schon pool cue. Always loved the way they felt and they look great and were well built.

I buy what works and in pool and golf it's usually more about about the indian than the arrow.

jhanso18
09-17-2013, 10:51 AM
I'm sorrry but if you are trying to tell me your McD Lucky cue, plays as good as a Tasc., Sugartree, etc. Your opinion holds almost no value to me. It might play OK with a tip, and retaper, but it isn't going to have premium shaft wood, it won't have the good hit that those cues do, nor will it transfer energy like a well made cue does. Not to mention deflection from a McD lucky shaft compared with a premium shaft. Heck, I've never even seen one that rolled straight... I do have a friend that plays a McD with Keith shafts that plays pretty, after refacing the joint.

I'm not one to go out and drop huge bucks on a name cue, but a nice 350-500 custom from Keith Kues, Pat Diveny, Woodworth, or any other reputable, quality cue maker, will out play most cues. It will hold value, and usually out last the other cue. (i.e. stay straight, finish holds up better, etc.) Hell, I once picked up a Steve Klapp cue for like $225, and it's still one of the best playing cues I've ever hit.

There is no A+B=C formula for cue buying, or playing pool for that matter. However, better gear definitely doesn't hurt your game. I've been beat up on by guys with house cues, and guys with $10k+ cues, I know the argument both ways very well. My gear comes with a sense of pride. I love this game and I work hard at it. My cues are a treat to myself for putting in the time to justify owning such gear. That's my opinion anyway.

All the best,

Justin Hanson

Roger Long
09-17-2013, 10:51 AM
So, before anyone gets the panties in a twist... I am going to go on a medium rant about cues and why there is so much "perfect hit" crap going on.

SO.....

I have been playing off and on for about a decade, and at one point was playing 5+ hrs a day, 365... since joining the Army, I no longer have that luxury. However, in my several years as an avid hobbyist, I have been through upwards of 20 cues. I was always looking for the next big thing when it came to cues and technology and who was the new hot cuemaker... blah blah blah

After spending WAY TOO MUCH MONEY on cues over the years, it has became evident to me that what you spent, or who's name is on your cue is pretty pointless.

For me its all about feel. I like a cue that gives me good feedback, and there is a certain sound that I like my cues to make when I hit a ball well (mostly the tip and ferrule combination account for the sound). So, I have to ask myself, why do I keep looking for the next best thing, when I have now and have had SEVERAL cues in the past that play great.

And what I realized, was that it was 2 fold. The main fun for me was the HUNT, I love doing the research and dreaming up what I think might make me happy. But more importantly, and the part that has my feathers ruffled... is that PART of me was caring about what other peoples reaction was when I answered the question "hey, what kind of cue is that".

SO... what did I do? I benched all of my high dollar equipment, and bought a "McDermott" LUCKY cue... $39 from Amazon PRIME... and guess what fellas (and ladies)... IT PLAYS GREAT. So what if it was made in china, or taiwan, or the moon... i don't care if it was made by retarded monkeys with polio... as long as it plays well.

So will I continue to look for the Tascarella's, Szamboti's, Southwest's, Sugartree's, and whoever else might make people go ooooh and ahhhh... ya probably. But it will no longer be becaue I feel I need to validate myself as a "pool player"... im going to validate myself as a POOL PLAYER, by calling fouls on myself (regardless of if my opponent sees it), by being the first one to extend my hand for a worthy handshake to my opponent (win or lose), by never complaining about rolls (they are good and bad, and both players are on the same table), and by enjoying THE GAME!!!

If I decide I want to buy a nice cue, it will be to appreciate the hardwork and craftsmanship of the person behind the lathe... it will no longer be to give myself "the edge" above the next guy.

MY edge will come from hard work and dedication when I am at the table.



Curious as to your thoughts?

please discuss ;)

Good post.

jhanso18
09-17-2013, 10:57 AM
Not a good comparison as a Mercedes can outperform a Focus regardless of the driver's skills. Just put it on a dyno.

The same cannot be said about a pool cue.

I think it just proves the point even more actually. It's a great comparison. You can measure energy transfer from a cue into the cue ball, just like a car on a dyno. (more energy transfer = better break, and when you shoot balls, you can swing softer allowing for more accuracy.) You can measure later G's in handling, just like deflection. A better cue will out perform an inferior one.

Just like in the car world Sebastion Vettel, will more thane likely drive circles around the average Joe. (granted a Focus ST to say a Benze S500 or soemthing of that nature.) Same way Shane will smoke most guys with a bar cue.

just saying there is always going to be measurable differences.

nineballsafety8
09-17-2013, 10:58 AM
I'm sorrry but if you are trying to tell me your McD Lucky cue, plays as good as a Tasc., Sugartree, etc. Your opinion holds almost no value to me. It might play OK with a tip, and retaper, but it isn't going to have premium shaft wood, it won't have the good hit that those cues do, nor will it transfer energy like a well made cue does. Not to mention deflection from a McD lucky shaft compared with a premium shaft. Heck, I've never even seen one that rolled straight... I do have a friend that plays a McD with Keith shafts that plays pretty, after refacing the joint.

I'm not one to go out and drop huge bucks on a name cue, but a nice 350-500 custom from Keith Kues, Pat Diveny, Woodworth, or any other reputable, quality cue maker, will out play most cues. It will hold value, and usually out last the other cue. (i.e. stay straight, finish holds up better, etc.) Hell, I once picked up a Steve Klapp cue for like $225, and it's still one of the best playing cues I've ever hit.

There is no A+B=C formula for cue buying, or playing pool for that matter. However, better gear definitely doesn't hurt your game. I've been beat up on by guys with house cues, and guys with $10k+ cues, I know the argument both ways very well. My gear comes with a sense of pride. I love this game and I work hard at it. My cues are a treat to myself for putting in the time to justify owning such gear. That's my opinion anyway.

All the best,

Justin Hanson

Justin,
As far as quality, fit and finish, and longevity... I totally agree... no questions asked. My Lucky doesn't come anywhere close to rolling straight... but thats not the point.

I changed the tip (red fiber pad, pressed triangle) lengthened the taper a bit, and then proceeded to run racks with it... no better, no worse than the $800 cue that I benched next to it.

nineballsafety8
09-17-2013, 11:00 AM
I think it just proves the point even more actually. It's a great comparison. You can measure energy transfer from a cue into the cue ball, just like a car on a dyno. You can measure later G's in handling, just like deflection. A better cue will out perform an inferior one.

Just like in the car world Sebastion Vettel, will more thane likely drive circles around the average Joe. (granted a Focus ST to say a Benze S500 or soemthing of that nature.) Same way Shane will smoke most guys with a bar cue.

just saying there is always going to be measurable differences.

measurable in what way? I am still able to draw 3 rails on 860HR with my $40 cue, and it deflects no worse than any other "standard" shaft in my arsenal... (including some $200+ bowling alley and old growth shafts)

jhanso18
09-17-2013, 11:13 AM
measurable in what way? I am still able to draw 3 rails on 860HR with my $40 cue, and it deflects no worse than any other "standard" shaft in my arsenal... (including some $200+ bowling alley and old growth shafts)

It has been done. You CAN measure deflection, and energy transfer. Two most important things in a cue. I'm not saying you cant do most, if not all the things your doing now, nearly the same. But you also have a highly modified shaft on you lucky. Your taper and tip have a direct effect on deflection and energy transfer. You might be able to draw 3 rails, but can you do it easier with better energy transfer? What about throwing a ball with spin? Easier to do with less deflection, isn't it?

I get what your trying to say, but you DO, in fact, get what you pay for (to an extent.) You pick 10 lucky's off the shelf I'll take 10 searings and we can compare how each play. I'll bet $1000 dollars that if we let 100 or so people test hit there choice of each Searing will win by a LAND SLIDE.

I'm not saying that you can't overpay for a cue. But if you pick up say a Diviney cue for $350, you're going to be hard pressed to beat it with any cue under $50. You could say the same thing about $150 Cuetec R360. You don't have to spend alot to get alot, I get that. But I will gauruntee my $400 plain jane Keith Kue will do more than your $40 lucky. 10 times more, pry not, but I can break over 30mph, I can jump fairly well, and I can play pretty damn sporty with it. (i.e. draw 3+ rails)

I get what your trying to say, but when rubber meets the road, to an extent you DO get what you pay for. I will maintain the best money you can spend for a new cue, on the cheap, is the R360 cuetec.

9BallEddie
09-17-2013, 11:16 AM
I think it just proves the point even more actually. It's a great comparison. You can measure energy transfer from a cue into the cue ball, just like a car on a dyno. You can measure later G's in handling, just like deflection. A better cue will out perform an inferior one.

Just like in the car world Sebastion Vettel, will more thane likely drive circles around the average Joe. (granted a Focus ST to say a Benze S500 or soemthing of that nature.) Same way Shane will smoke most guys with a bar cue.

just saying there is always going to be measurable differences.

That measurable difference can only be measured by a player and their skill level. A cue's "performance" is only as good as the player who holds it. A poor player with a $3,000 cue is not going to outplay a pro with a $100 cue. I don't care how low the deflection is.

nineballsafety8
09-17-2013, 11:22 AM
It has been done. You CAN measure deflection, and energy transfer. Two most important things in a cue. I'm not saying you cant do most, if not all the things your doing now, nearly the same. But you also have a highly modified shaft on you lucky. Your taper and tip have a direct effect on deflection and energy transfer. You might be able to draw 3 rails, but can you do it easier with better energy transfer? What about throwing a ball with spin? Easier to do with less deflection, isn't it?

I get what your trying to say, but you DO, in fact, get what you pay for (to an extent.) You pick 10 lucky's off the shelf I'll take 10 searings and we can compare how each play. I'll bet $1000 dollars that if we let 100 or so people test hit there choice of each Searing will win by a LAND SLIDE.

I'm not saying that you can't overpay for a cue. But if you pick up say a Diviney cue for $350, you're going to be hard pressed to beat it with any cue under $50. You could say the same thing about $150 Cuetec R360. You don't have to spend alot to get alot, I get that. But I will gauruntee my $400 plain jane Keith Kue will do more than your $40 lucky. 10 times more, pry not, but I can break over 30mph, I can jump fairly well, and I can play pretty damn sporty with it. (i.e. draw 3+ rails)

I get what your trying to say, but when rubber meets the road, to an extent you DO get what you pay for. I will maintain the best money you can spend for a new cue, on the cheap, is the R360 cuetec.

Well said sir!
Wasnt argiung just wanted more of your opinion.

Especially the 100 off the shelf part.

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

jhanso18
09-17-2013, 11:22 AM
That measurable difference can only be measured by a player and their skill level. A cue's "performance" is only as good as the player who holds it. A poor player with a $3,000 cue is not going to outplay a pro with a $100 cue. I don't care how low the deflection is. However, a low skilled driver in a Ferrari can absolutely beat a pro driver in a Winnebago.

Like I said with in reason. A amature in a Ferrari won't out run a Pro in a corvette.

Same can be said for this. Same player with two different cues. Lets say the better cue makes said player a half ball to a whole ball better than a bar cue or a Lucky like you have. How much is that worth? Is it worth $100, $200, $2000??? It's subject to the player. If that player regularly plays for $1000 a set, is it worth $2000 to have that confidence in your gear? I guess it's subjective. To me, it's worth at least an extra $100, maybe even 2-300.

I'm not going to argue a B+ player to a pro, but what about a A player to a AA player? You think they're going to notice, and/or see a measurable difference? Every little advantage helps.

Like I said, a $150 R360 to your $40 Lucky, I'll spend the extra $110 every time.

Your $40 lucky to my $400 Keith I'll do the same, even though I can pry get by for less. It's all preference.

jhanso18
09-17-2013, 11:25 AM
Well said sir!
Wasnt argiung just wanted more of your opinion.

Especially the 100 off the shelf part.

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

It's all good! I know what your getting at, and I agree to an extent.

There are so many good used custom cues out there for cheap it's stupid. Same thing with the R360. shouldn't be able to get such good cues for so little.

Banks
09-17-2013, 11:26 AM
Welcome to the club! I'd say you spent too much on the cue, but I paid $40 to have my Valley cut in two. It's hard to argue with performance. The difference, to me, is that some people like to have a real Van Gogh, others are equally happy having much less expensive art.

As for the comparison to a car, I'd say that the player/game is more like the car and the cue is more like the steering wheel. Maybe even more like a steering wheel cover.

On the flip side, I don't think I could find any pictures from the last two or three tournaments that showed me with my cue. :(

Cuemaster98
09-17-2013, 11:29 AM
Hi,

I do agreed that hard work and dedication to practice in the game will improve your game no matter what cue(s) you used...however, I think that using a better quality cue to practice and play will give more confident (an edge) than if you didn't. As for what constitute a quality cue..that's really personal and highly up for debate. A cheap McDermott may be your holy grail of cue and to other not. Where as a SW or custom cue for other is their holy grail of cue.

I've been using a different cue each time in tournaments as long I can remember and I can tell you that my performance is highly affected by my choice of cues that I use to play with. Now, I understand sometime you get the rolls and you win irrespective of the quality of cues but I have been doing this for years and personally know for a fact that there are a lot of quality cues on the market however under pressure each will perform different for you. Played with my SW last night and I was in dead stroke and won a local tournament. Week before that using a different cue, also a quality cue but under play didn't perform or give me the confident that i needed.

Not only does sound and feel of a cue is important when finding a quality cue but you can test good quality cues on shots that your are familiar with and be able to understand whether the cue with work for you or not.

Sometime, I pick up a cue and without shooting a ball, I already know that it will be a good player for me. I've literally gone through hundreds of cues from all prices and I know for a fact that you can get lucky with picking up cue for less than 100.00 that will play like at 2K cue. All comes down to quality of shafts, tips, taper etc. So, at any budget, you can find a quality cue but general rule of thumb is that the higher your budget the more the consistent the quality of play will become.

Can you find a $100 cues that perform as good as a 2-4K cue, yes but very rare. If you do find one...keep it. Will a 2-4K perform much better than cheaper/production cue....very high probability that you will like it more.

Anyway, point is, don't dismiss higher quality cue until you try them for yourself. If you goal is to find a cheap cue and modified it to plays as good the more expensive cue that definitely can be done but point is don't discredit the more expensive cue just because they are more expensive. The tiny different can sometime give you the edge that you need to win. For me, the SW just gave me some much confident to drill the ball yesterday...that I couldn't missed.


BR,
Duc.

PocketSpeed11
09-17-2013, 11:34 AM
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.

I don't think this is the best analogy, but your I see your point. A greater segment of the population will buy Mercedes because they feel it validates them as a successful person (to themselves and, perhaps more importantly for some of them, to others), while the overwhelming majority buy high-end cues because they feel it will make them play better (not counting the collectors).

I completely agree with 9ballsafety's post. I play with a McDermott myself and I am completely satisfied with its playability.

9BallEddie
09-17-2013, 11:36 AM
Same can be said for this. Same player with two different cues. Lets say the better cue makes said player a half ball to a whole ball better than a bar cue or a Lucky like you have. How much is that worth? Is it worth $100, $200, $2000??? It's subject to the player. If that player regularly plays for $1000 a set, is it worth $2000 to have that confidence in your gear? I guess it's subjective. To me, it's worth at least an extra $100, maybe even 2-300.

I see your point and I have to agree. It is subjective and simply having that confidence in your gear can make a difference. :thumbup:

I guess it can be the same as in my profession. I am a photographer and I have expensive gear. Not because it makes me a better photographer, but because it helps me do more and I have the confidence that it will perform under certain situations. I certainly wouldn't be as confident with a consumer camera that will actually limit my own abilities.

boogeyman
09-17-2013, 11:36 AM
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.

Great post to bring to light on how it is NOT the cue itself that is important. All of my playing days I have come to the conclusion that a Dufferin, house cue, is the best feel of any cue. It's convenient, free, and makes me "look" like a hacker. I don't want the attention anyways.

For those who like expensive cues, I have no problem with it. To each his/her own.

Happy Shooting to all!:wink:

nineballsafety8
09-17-2013, 11:44 AM
Hi,

I do agreed that hard work and dedication to practice in the game will improve your game no matter what cue(s) you used...however, I think that using a better quality cue to practice and play will give more confident (an edge) than if you didn't. As for what constitute a quality cue..that's really personal and highly up for debate. A cheap McDermott may be your holy grail of cue and to other not. Where as a SW or custom cue for other is their holy grail of cue.

I've been using a different cue each time in tournaments as long I can remember and I can tell you that my performance is highly affected by my choice of cues that I use to play with. Now, I understand sometime you get the rolls and you win irrespective of the quality of cues but I have been doing this for years and personally know for a fact that there are a lot of quality cues on the market however under pressure each will perform different for you. Played with my SW last night and I was in dead stroke and won a local tournament. Week before that using a different cue, also a quality cue but under play didn't perform or give me the confident that i needed.

Not only does sound and feel of a cue is important when finding a quality cue but you can test good quality cues on shots that your are familiar with and be able to understand whether the cue with work for you or not.

Sometime, I pick up a cue and without shooting a ball, I already know that it will be a good player for me. I've literally gone through hundreds of cues from all prices and I know for a fact that you can get lucky with picking up cue for less than 100.00 that will play like at 2K cue. All comes down to quality of shafts, tips, taper etc. So, at any budget, you can find a quality cue but general rule of thumb is that the higher your budget the more the consistent the quality of play will become.

Can you find a $100 cues that perform as good as a 2-4K cue, yes but very rare. If you do find one...keep it. Will a 2-4K perform much better than cheaper/production cue....very high probability that you will like it more.

Anyway, point is, don't dismiss higher quality cue until you try them for yourself. If you goal is to find a cheap cue and modified it to plays as good the more expensive cue that definitely can be done but point is don't discredit the more expensive cue just because they are more expensive. The tiny different can sometime give you the edge that you need to win. For me, the SW just gave me some much confident to drill the ball yesterday...that I couldn't missed.


BR,
Duc.

Duc,
Nice post. I think you misunderstood my intent... I was in no way discrediting ANY cue. I am a firm believer in craftsmanship and that if you INVEST in a quality cue it will treat you well (usually).
I was ranting about me getting CAUGHT UP in the wonderful world of.cues... and not focusing on THE GAME!

I would rather buy a GARBAGE cue that looks like a banana (not the case with mine), and invest hours at the table and see improvement because my head is right... than to find my dream cue, and then get frustrated that it didnt help my game other than psychologically.

Know what I mean?

It was mainly a post about loving the GAME... regardless of what cue you have!

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

jhanso18
09-17-2013, 11:46 AM
Hi,

I do agreed that hard work and dedication to practice in the game will improve your game no matter what cue(s) you used...however, I think that using a better quality cue to practice and play will give more confident (an edge) than if you didn't. As for what constitute a quality cue..that's really personal and highly up for debate. A cheap McDermott may be your holy grail of cue and to other not. Where as a SW or custom cue for other is their holy grail of cue.

I've been using a different cue each time in tournaments as long I can remember and I can tell you that my performance is highly affected by my choice of cues that I use to play with. Now, I understand sometime you get the rolls and you win irrespective of the quality of cues but I have been doing this for years and personally know for a fact that there are a lot of quality cues on the market however under pressure each will perform different for you. Played with my SW last night and I was in dead stroke and won a local tournament. Week before that using a different cue, also a quality cue but under play didn't perform or give me the confident that i needed.

Not only does sound and feel of a cue is important when finding a quality cue but you can test good quality cues on shots that your are familiar with and be able to understand whether the cue with work for you or not.

Sometime, I pick up a cue and without shooting a ball, I already know that it will be a good player for me. I've literally gone through hundreds of cues from all prices and I know for a fact that you can get lucky with picking up cue for less than 100.00 that will play like at 2K cue. All comes down to quality of shafts, tips, taper etc. So, at any budget, you can find a quality cue but general rule of thumb is that the higher your budget the more the consistent the quality of play will become.

Can you find a $100 cues that perform as good as a 2-4K cue, yes but very rare. If you do find one...keep it. Will a 2-4K perform much better than cheaper/production cue....very high probability that you will like it more.

Anyway, point is, don't dismiss higher quality cue until you try them for yourself. If you goal is to find a cheap cue and modified it to plays as good the more expensive cue that definitely can be done but point is don't discredit the more expensive cue just because they are more expensive. The tiny different can sometime give you the edge that you need to win. For me, the SW just gave me some much confident to drill the ball yesterday...that I couldn't missed.


BR,
Duc.

I agree 110%! Great post!

RRfireblade
09-17-2013, 11:50 AM
My thoughts are that my thoughts are my thoughts.

Not single F should be given by anyone else why I do what I do and I don't give a single F why anyone else does what they do.

Be a much happier world if people would simply focus all their rant energy on improving themselves instead.

Discuss.

:)

nineballsafety8
09-17-2013, 12:00 PM
My thoughts are that my thoughts are my thoughts.

Not single F should be given by anyone else why I do what I do and I don't give a single F why anyone else does what they do.

Be a much happier world if people would simply focus all their rant energy on improving themselves instead.

Discuss.

:)

Im fairly confident that my rant was about improving myself, and my love for the game... *shrug*

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

Gio Sr.
09-17-2013, 12:09 PM
So, before anyone gets the panties in a twist... I am going to go on a medium rant about cues and why there is so much "perfect hit" crap going on.

SO.....

I have been playing off and on for about a decade, and at one point was playing 5+ hrs a day, 365... since joining the Army, I no longer have that luxury. However, in my several years as an avid hobbyist, I have been through upwards of 20 cues. I was always looking for the next big thing when it came to cues and technology and who was the new hot cuemaker... blah blah blah

After spending WAY TOO MUCH MONEY on cues over the years, it has become evident to me that what you spent, or who's name is on your cue is pretty pointless.

For me its all about feel. I like a cue that gives me good feedback, and there is a certain sound that I like my cues to make when I hit a ball well (mostly the tip and ferrule combination account for the sound). So, I have to ask myself, why do I keep looking for the next best thing, when I have now and have had SEVERAL cues in the past that play great.

And what I realized, was that it was 2 fold. The main fun for me was the HUNT, I love doing the research and dreaming up what I think might make me happy. But more importantly, and the part that has my feathers ruffled... is that PART of me was caring about what other peoples reaction were when I answered the question "hey, what kind of cue is that".

SO... what did I do? I benched all of my high dollar equipment, and bought a "McDermott" LUCKY cue... $39 from Amazon PRIME... and guess what fellas (and ladies)... IT PLAYS GREAT. So what if it was made in china, or taiwan, or the moon... i don't care if it was made by retarded monkeys with polio... as long as it plays well.

So will I continue to look for the Tascarella's, Szamboti's, Southwest's, Sugartree's, and whoever else might make people go ooooh and ahhhh... ya probably. But it will no longer be becaue I feel I need to validate myself as a "pool player"... im going to validate myself as a POOL PLAYER, by calling fouls on myself (regardless of if my opponent sees it), by being the first one to extend my hand for a worthy handshake to my opponent (win or lose), by never complaining about rolls (they are good and bad, and both players are on the same table), and by enjoying THE GAME!!!

If I decide I want to buy a nice cue, it will be to appreciate the hardwork and craftsmanship of the person behind the lathe... it will no longer be to give myself "the edge" above the next guy.

MY edge will come from hard work and dedication when I am at the table.



Curious as to your thoughts?

please discuss ;)

You couldn't post this a couple of weeks ago before I bought my Carmelli :grin-square:
I bought it because it was beautiful. It just happens to play great. I took it out twice and both times some bone head nocked into it. Now I'm paying my plane Jane Coker player because I'm nervous about the Carmelli getting clobbered.

But the Coker plays good enough.

Six Shooter
09-17-2013, 12:10 PM
Well damn it NBS8.

Just as I really getting used to the Mottey with the new shaft from Sly, you gotta come up with this kind of thought. LOL.

Guess I'll have to just use that $19 Wilson in my case that I typically use as a bridge cue.

galipeau
09-17-2013, 12:20 PM
Here's my argument for buying any good custom: besides supporting these craftsman, would you rather go through 1-2 good customs that wil last 30+ years, or go through 5-10 cheapo McDermotts....

Having said that, I like this post. I know and A player that practices with a 50$ ferrule-less McD... shaft isnt even perfectly straight! just like to keep wear off his other cues.

I don't really collect cues, but have gone through a few. I only keep one or two that i really like. If it doesn't feel right, or something else comes along, the cue goes. I shoot with a beat to sh!t scruggs sneaky. I got it for a steal of a price and it hits a ton. i've paid twice as much as i did for other cues due to looks, ivory collars, maker, etc... and it really wasn't worth it.

It is what it is. I'll play with a broomstick if shoots well!

Straightpool_99
09-17-2013, 12:20 PM
I'm just a hack, so my opinion probably won't matter much to anyone, but I have owned a lot of cues. Most of my cues were stolen in a burglary and after that, my view on cues changed a bit. Some of those cues I considered to be unreplaceable among them a hand built snooker cue that I loved, but it turned out that I was wrong about the unreplaceable part.

There are no magic cues, but when it was time to replace the stolen ones, I found that the predator Z2 shaft was the one I played best with. Tried to place it on all kinds of cue butts, but really didn't feel that the butts played all that different. In the end I settled for a cue with a metal joint and forward balance and I decided never to buy any more cues, unless the one I have gets broken or stolen. I will use my money for table time instead. In my opinion, the most valuable training is to pick a cue (of reasonable quality) and stick with it. Many poolplayers change their cues more often than their underwear and I know that for me, it wrecked havoc on my game. Look at the professional snooker players. Most of them have had a cue for most of their life or at least a very long time. Stephen Hendry had his cue broken at the airport and it completely ruined his confidence in his game for a time (some say he never completely recovered).

nineballsafety8
09-17-2013, 12:24 PM
Well damn it NBS8.

Just as I really getting used to the Mottey with the new shaft from Sly, you gotta come up with this kind of thought. LOL.

Guess I'll have to just use that $19 Wilson in my case that I typically use as a bridge cue.

You won't use the Wilson on Saturday... no balls lmao. Jk



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revhigh
09-17-2013, 12:34 PM
Wow ...I can't believe I heard someone say they had a little respect for the R360 cues from cuetec. I paid $125 for mine brand new and shipped. It is a fantastic cue, and everybody that tries it loves it. I'm not claiming to be in the same league as most of you guys, but it works for me. The Players HXT LD series is also a great line of reasonably priced cues.

Both my Cuetec and Players exotic wood series cues are absolutely dead straight and hit nicely. I got the Players cue right here on the site brand new for $75 shipped. A truly great value IMO, and I was lucky to get sucha great deal.

These two lines of cues are definitely two to checkout for an inexpensive, but great cue.

REV

bdorman
09-17-2013, 01:11 PM
I think the OP's main point -- that players spend their lives chasing success via equipment -- is very valid. And it happens in every sport because it's human nature to want to do better. It's also human nature to assign blame for failure on someone/something other than ourselves. "I'm going to buy that $1000 cue and do better in the next tournament!"

It doesn't matter if you're buying $3000 customs or $50 production cues: the cue is a very minor part in playing good pool.

RRfireblade
09-17-2013, 01:18 PM
Im fairly confident that my rant was about improving myself, and my love for the game... *shrug*

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

Well then some people should read the whole OP before opening their big mouth. :)

snipershot
09-17-2013, 01:48 PM
Im a fairly new and totally amateur cue maker. Ive made about 20-30 cues or so, and most of those have ended up in the trash because i messed up somewhere and ruined them. The ones that survived my scrutiny play very well and the people who own them and shoot with them seem to love em. Before i started making cues, i was a cue fanatic and would buy and sell cues and drool over them. I never knew what all it took to make a cue, and im here to tell you that a low end import cue doesnt compare to a custom made cue by a reputable maker. Im a nobody, you have never heard of me, and you might never hear of me, but my construction process is rock solid. Ive got cues ive been building for over 2 years in my shop. Not because im slow, but because it takes a long time with some things if you want them to be perfect. Making a taper pass and waiting a month for the next one is painful to say the least, but in the end, its worth it. You cant get that kind of care and dedication from a $39 cue. Long after that cue has fell apart, my cue will still be playing. Good construction will make a cue play better and hit better, without a doubt. Just my opinion though.

Joe

SignManiac
09-17-2013, 01:58 PM
At one time I was going to buy a cheap parachute, but then thought better of it:thumbup:

RiCHiE$RiCH
09-17-2013, 02:02 PM
Im a fairly new and totally amatuer cue maker. Ive made about 20-30 cues or so, and kost of those have ended up in the trash because i messed up somewhere and ruined them. The ones that survived my scrutiny play very well and the people who own them and shoot with them seem to love em. Before i started making cues, i was a cue fanatic and would buy and sell cues and drool over them. I never knew what all it took to make a cue, and im here to tell you that a low end import cue doesnt compare to a custom made cue by a reputable maker. Im a nobody, you have never heard of me, and you might never hear of me, but my construction process is rock solid. Ive got cues ive been building for over 2 years in my shop. Not because im slow, but because it takes a long time with some things if you want them to be perfect. Making a taper pass and waiting a month for the next one is painful to say the least, but in the end, its worth it. You cant get that kind of care and dedication from a $39 cue. Long after that cue has fell apart, my cue will still be playing. Good construction will make a cue play better and hit better, without a doubt. Just my opinion though.

Joe

I think most people would agree with what you said. But I think the guy means you don't have to have great custom gear to have fun or become a better pool player. I myself don't own any beater cues, all custom, but I can and will still play with a cheap cue and have fun and enjoy pool.
I personally just enjoy playing with a well crafted cue. But that's just me.

Blue Hog ridr
09-17-2013, 02:04 PM
Know what you mean. I have approx 15 cues now of various makes etc.

One of my best bar box players was a PR cue from China. Cheap EBay find that I refinished, new wrap and a re worked older shaft.

Well under a hundred and it plays just about as well as any other cue I own.

Just lucky more than anything but its a gooder. Probably a Wednesday cue.

galipeau
09-17-2013, 02:31 PM
I also think people let others change their opinion of their own cues. This has happened to me and I don't like it. If you have something that works, then play with it. It really is about the game.

Perceptions such as:
"God forbid you have a ding in your cue's buttcap!!!" OR "Oh my God! The points on my cue are off, it wont play well if the points aren't even! "

Lol, these things are really insignificant when you have that beautiful moment as your pocketing balls and everything just seems to work...
This is why I (and many others i assume) play the game!

nineballsafety8
09-17-2013, 04:51 PM
I also think people let others change their opinion of their own cues. This has happened to me and I don't like it. If you have something that works, then play with it. It really is about the game.

Perceptions such as:
"God forbid you have a ding in your cue's buttcap!!!" OR "Oh my God! The points on my cue are off, it wont play well if the points aren't even! "

Lol, these things are really insignificant when you have that beautiful moment as your pocketing balls and everything just seems to work...
This is why I (and many others i assume) play the game!

Lol It's so funny you mentioned that. I have had three cues, that I have let go based on things that someone else has said. Things that didnt bother me in the slightest until pointed out, and then its like its was blaringly obviously and a major annoyance.

I now make a contious effort.not to say anything about someone elses cue that might put a bad taste in their mouth.

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

jay helfert
09-17-2013, 05:29 PM
So, before anyone gets the panties in a twist... I am going to go on a medium rant about cues and why there is so much "perfect hit" crap going on.

SO.....

I have been playing off and on for about a decade, and at one point was playing 5+ hrs a day, 365... since joining the Army, I no longer have that luxury. However, in my several years as an avid hobbyist, I have been through upwards of 20 cues. I was always looking for the next big thing when it came to cues and technology and who was the new hot cuemaker... blah blah blah

After spending WAY TOO MUCH MONEY on cues over the years, it has become evident to me that what you spent, or who's name is on your cue is pretty pointless.

For me its all about feel. I like a cue that gives me good feedback, and there is a certain sound that I like my cues to make when I hit a ball well (mostly the tip and ferrule combination account for the sound). So, I have to ask myself, why do I keep looking for the next best thing, when I have now and have had SEVERAL cues in the past that play great.

And what I realized, was that it was 2 fold. The main fun for me was the HUNT, I love doing the research and dreaming up what I think might make me happy. But more importantly, and the part that has my feathers ruffled... is that PART of me was caring about what other peoples reaction were when I answered the question "hey, what kind of cue is that".

SO... what did I do? I benched all of my high dollar equipment, and bought a "McDermott" LUCKY cue... $39 from Amazon PRIME... and guess what fellas (and ladies)... IT PLAYS GREAT. So what if it was made in china, or taiwan, or the moon... i don't care if it was made by retarded monkeys with polio... as long as it plays well.

So will I continue to look for the Tascarella's, Szamboti's, Southwest's, Sugartree's, and whoever else might make people go ooooh and ahhhh... ya probably. But it will no longer be becaue I feel I need to validate myself as a "pool player"... im going to validate myself as a POOL PLAYER, by calling fouls on myself (regardless of if my opponent sees it), by being the first one to extend my hand for a worthy handshake to my opponent (win or lose), by never complaining about rolls (they are good and bad, and both players are on the same table), and by enjoying THE GAME!!!

If I decide I want to buy a nice cue, it will be to appreciate the hardwork and craftsmanship of the person behind the lathe... it will no longer be to give myself "the edge" above the next guy.

MY edge will come from hard work and dedication when I am at the table.



Curious as to your thoughts?

please discuss ;)

Jay Helfert
5'6 170 pounds sopping wet
My break is broke!

It ain't the arrow, it's the Archer! In fact it might be Johnny Archer. ;)

P.S. I like your name, good choice!

prewarhero
09-17-2013, 06:06 PM
It has been done. You CAN measure deflection, and energy transfer. Two most important things in a cue.

I agree w/ your earlier post. But this... you assert that a shaft with more deflection is worse? Each shaft may have a deflect more or less and it can be measured but it does not make a shaft better or worse. Just different. If that was the case everyone would play with a predator. I for one, won't because they don't deflect enough.

sluan
09-17-2013, 06:15 PM
That measurable difference can only be measured by a player and their skill level. A cue's "performance" is only as good as the player who holds it. A poor player with a $3,000 cue is not going to outplay a pro with a $100 cue. I don't care how low the deflection is.

Very nicely said. :thumbup:

CreeDo
09-18-2013, 09:52 AM
Jay! You finally nailed it :)

It's fine to collect cues, as long as you are honest and accept you're doing it for collection purposes,
and not for your game. The #1 thing in your game is consistency.
How do you get consistent? Sure as shit it isn't by switching to a different cue every week.
Stick to the lucky for a while, if you can overcome the must-buy-new-cue-NOW jitters.

ideologist
09-18-2013, 11:17 AM
One of my favorite cues ever is a $14.99 Minnesota Fats CLASSIC hardwood cue.

Lacquered shaft, joint is not faced well at all, but the shaft is so crazy stiff it is unbelievable. Tons of density.

It hits like a truck and I can get some unbelievable spin on the ball. I want a trick shot artist to try it out.

It's ugly, but it plays very strong.

3andstop
09-18-2013, 12:51 PM
Here's my argument for buying any good custom: besides supporting these craftsman, would you rather go through 1-2 good customs that wil last 30+ years, or go through 5-10 cheapo McDermotts....



Your post caught my eye. So .... which moving part in that cheapo McDermott will fail 5 to 10 times in 30 yrs? :scratchhead:

What you say? There are no moving parts in a pool cue! :eek:

Then what the heck fails, the battery? The magnetic charge? I don't get it.

How it is is like this. If you like custom cues ... wonderful. If you have the money to spend on them, even better!

If you think they will make you play better, then they will. No different from a rabbit's foot in your pocket that you believe will bring you luck.

Yes there is real shit wood, yes there are 12 piece cues with grain in the shaft wide enough to slide your credit card through. Let's stipulate that neither of us are talking about those pieces of kindling wood.

A nice tight grained rock maple shaft is a nice rock maple shaft. Aged better with a custom cue you say? Don't you believe it for a minute.

Put yourself in this situation. Your business is providing quality cue shaft blanks to cue makers. You have various makers that buy a dozen or so at a time. They come back to you if they are satisfied.

Now you have McDermott who probably buys hundreds at a time. Who ya gonna be real sure you satisfy?

Sure they are all good quality, from there the ferrule, tip taper are all variables that you can change to your own personal liking.

Now the butt. That's wood too. No magic dust inside, just some metal for weight. Some are slid up higher some have different balance points and weights, this again is nothing more than personal preference.

Custom cues give some that warm fuzzy feeling that can help your game.

Not unlike a Harley Davidson motorcycle vs a high end Yamaha or Honda cruiser. Some people just need the decal that says Harley and some don't. And don't start thinking resale value. You buy a pool cue to play pool, you buy a motorcycle to ride, and you buy gold and silver for resale value.

I posted this picture before ... here's my cues ... all 4 of them cost 300 bucks total. That is with 8 ... count em 8 shafts, and joint protectors and ... free shipping. :)

How much am I gonna loose in resale value?

jhanso18
09-18-2013, 01:22 PM
Your post caught my eye. So .... which moving part in that cheapo McDermott will fail 5 to 10 times in 30 yrs? :scratchhead:

What you say? There are no moving parts in a pool cue! :eek:

Then what the heck fails, the battery? The magnetic charge? I don't get it.

How it is is like this. If you like custom cues ... wonderful. If you have the money to spend on them, even better!

If you think they will make you play better, then they will. No different from a rabbit's foot in your pocket that you believe will bring you luck.

Yes there is real shit wood, yes there are 12 piece cues with grain in the shaft wide enough to slide your credit card through. Let's stipulate that neither of us are talking about those pieces of kindling wood.

A nice tight grained rock maple shaft is a nice rock maple shaft. Aged better with a custom cue you say? Don't you believe it for a minute.

Put yourself in this situation. Your business is providing quality cue shaft blanks to cue makers. You have various makers that buy a dozen or so at a time. They come back to you if they are satisfied.

Now you have McDermott who probably buys hundreds at a time. Who ya gonna be real sure you satisfy?

Sure they are all good quality, from there the ferrule, tip taper are all variables that you can change to your own personal liking.

Now the butt. That's wood too. No magic dust inside, just some metal for weight. Some are slid up higher some have different balance points and weights, this again is nothing more than personal preference.

Custom cues give some that warm fuzzy feeling that can help your game.

Not unlike a Harley Davidson motorcycle vs a high end Yamaha or Honda cruiser. Some people just need the decal that says Harley and some don't. And don't start thinking resale value. You buy a pool cue to play pool, you buy a motorcycle to ride, and you buy gold and silver for resale value.

I posted this picture before ... here's my cues ... all 4 of them cost 300 bucks total. That is with 8 ... count em 8 shafts, and joint protectors and ... free shipping. :)

How much am I gonna loose in resale value?

One problem when you talk McD's is that they make $35 cues, and $1200+ cues. they aren't all the same. That's like saying Ford makes good cars, they make the festiva and at the same time they make the Ford GT... two worlds apart.

To your cues, sure you won't lose a lot of money, but you also won't lose a lot of money buying a knock off Rolex, for $50 either. You have knock off southwest's there. They don't play like a southwest, I'll guarantee that. (I bought one to try out at one point. Mine was labeled Kaiser.) They are OK cues, but they don't play very well until you retip and retaper them IMO. But to each his own. Still one of the best bargains out there IMO.

I think we can all agree, that it's more the archer than the bow, or the arrow. At the same time, you DO get what you pay for. If you pay for a highly skilled builder, to make you a master piece, that's more than likely what you will get. If you pay for a $50 cue to "get the job done" that's what you will get. At the end of the day, if you are happy with what you have, and you enjoy the game, you win.

I have several expensive and cheap cues. i enjoy them, and the game for what it is. My favorite cue, and the one I play with, is below. It's priceless to me, but the retail price is around $3k when it was commissioned built. I get the most joy out of playing pool when I play with THIS CUE. The cost is irrelevant because it plays so well, and it was completed the same day my son, Roman, was born. I don't care what anyone else thinks, its the best cue in the world TO ME. That is priceless. If you can find the best cue for you, it's tough to put a price on it. Mine is NOT for sale.

3andstop
09-18-2013, 02:20 PM
You make my point .. you may not like the tip or taper but you can fix that for 5 bucks.

I've bought lots of different inexpensive cues over the years. The most undesirable thing I've found that I can't fix is the diameter of the butt. But ... these cues I came across are nothing less that outstanding IMO for feel. I did have to taper the shaft back to 18" and replaced the tip (which really was a very nice layered tip) with a Tiger Emerald tip, which I happen to like.

Custom cues are wonderful, don't get me wrong, but the purpose they serve is more art than anything.

Reinventing the wheel in a small shop doesn't have to turn out any better than mass produced cues with high tech machinery. You might have seen this video clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T2pXa9znwY).

Now that looks like a pretty impressive process and if they didn't put that shamrock on there, a nice italian boy like me might buy one. :)

You can buy a Picasso painting or a paint by number water color painting, neither will make you a better painter. But it is sure more enjoyable to marvel at the artwork of the Picasso not unlike a beautiful custom cue.

Snapshot9
09-18-2013, 03:18 PM
on what you are comfortable with. For some players, a $100 cue is just fine (but, granted most of these do not really know what fine is because they are usually a newbie, and don't have the knowledge enough to really know what is good). Other players may want the $4k Southwest, although I do think some players buy above their head (buy an expensive cue then don't play with it because it is so expensive). Usually in the middle somewhere is where most players decide they want to be.

The $1,000 cue, this is a barometer for getting a good playing cue, and some say anything over a $1,000 is just decoration. Some cuemakers though are true artists, and I love seeing their high-end cues. Most of the time, players only want to see your cue when you beat them, or unless it is a high-end cue.

Arrows do matter, without a good arrow that is straight with feathers on it just right, you would probably not hit the target. Archery was a family thing for me, my paternal grandfather made bows and arrows by hand. When I was 7, I got a bow made of lemonwood, had a 35 lb. pull to it. My big brother got one made out of a 1 piece Oak, had a 50-55 lb. pull to it.

If you are going to compare cars, use something a little more reachable for the average Joe, like a Lexus, not a Mercedes. I was impressed with the quality of my brother's Lexus the first time I rode in it.

Bargains - When you get more than what you payed for - Some Sneaky Petes are this way. A good Sneaky Pete can play as good as a $1,000 cue. If you find one, keep it, you won't be sorry.

So, my advice to new players and enthusiasts, is to inquire and learn about different equipment, and then get what is comfortable for you, whether it cost $40 or $4k. Be happy with your equipment, and that includes your case too. I have 2 friends, one shoots with a r360 Cuetec and is an 11 speed, and the other shoots with a Muecci and has one of the straightest eyes I ever seen in 52 years of playing.

devorator
09-27-2013, 09:47 PM
Good post sir.
I always said it's the Archer not the arrow...that doesn't mean Johnny can play with a warped arrow....

PS: if you want to sell one of those let me know....really!

Your post caught my eye. So .... which moving part in that cheapo McDermott will fail 5 to 10 times in 30 yrs? :scratchhead:

What you say? There are no moving parts in a pool cue! :eek:

Then what the heck fails, the battery? The magnetic charge? I don't get it.

How it is is like this. If you like custom cues ... wonderful. If you have the money to spend on them, even better!

If you think they will make you play better, then they will. No different from a rabbit's foot in your pocket that you believe will bring you luck.

Yes there is real shit wood, yes there are 12 piece cues with grain in the shaft wide enough to slide your credit card through. Let's stipulate that neither of us are talking about those pieces of kindling wood.

A nice tight grained rock maple shaft is a nice rock maple shaft. Aged better with a custom cue you say? Don't you believe it for a minute.

Put yourself in this situation. Your business is providing quality cue shaft blanks to cue makers. You have various makers that buy a dozen or so at a time. They come back to you if they are satisfied.

Now you have McDermott who probably buys hundreds at a time. Who ya gonna be real sure you satisfy?

Sure they are all good quality, from there the ferrule, tip taper are all variables that you can change to your own personal liking.

Now the butt. That's wood too. No magic dust inside, just some metal for weight. Some are slid up higher some have different balance points and weights, this again is nothing more than personal preference.

Custom cues give some that warm fuzzy feeling that can help your game.

Not unlike a Harley Davidson motorcycle vs a high end Yamaha or Honda cruiser. Some people just need the decal that says Harley and some don't. And don't start thinking resale value. You buy a pool cue to play pool, you buy a motorcycle to ride, and you buy gold and silver for resale value.

I posted this picture before ... here's my cues ... all 4 of them cost 300 bucks total. That is with 8 ... count em 8 shafts, and joint protectors and ... free shipping. :)

How much am I gonna loose in resale value?

Tramp Steamer
09-28-2013, 06:39 AM
I stopped in at "Two Tooth" Sally's place down in Galveston, several years ago. She was having a two for one sale.
I sure got what I paid for, I can tell you. :smile:

Tony_in_MD
09-28-2013, 06:43 AM
Sell the Boar for 4000, the used Lucasi for 50.

That is what I could do.

LOL

:p


Ford focus :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuDN2bCIyus

Not being contrary, but can you be more specific? What could you do with a $4k black boar that you couldnt do with a $150 lucasi? and be honest... given that it is in the hands of B+ or better player.

Donny Lutz
09-28-2013, 07:07 AM
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.

I do think your cue can be much like your car. You chose the car, not just for value, but because you like it's looks...they fit your personality and sort of represent you.

Same for a cue. My old friend, the late Jimmy Scrima said, "There's something about a cue...when you take it out of the case, and enjoy just looking at it...it represents your tastes, and you like others to see it, too."

I buy a cue first because it plays well and is well made, but also because I like it's looks.

Example: I had my best years with a very plain old Meucci sneaky. Currently, one of my favorite cues is a Pechauer curly maple sneaky. It also plays very nicely for me, but it's much prettier than that Meucci. I like to just look at it occasionally, even when I'm not playing!

snipershot
09-30-2013, 04:18 PM
Ive read every post in this thread, and some people seem like they really dislike custom cues. McDermott has way more technology at their disposal than i do or most cuemakers for that matter, but i wonder if some of you guys know what all it takes to make a custom cue? When i first started, i didnt have any idea how precise you have to be. For instance, if i dont indicate my chuck on my lathe to dead zero, then the cue will be off. Just 5 or 10 thousandths of an inch can be enough to make the cue flop like a fish when rolled. Im sure that the production companies are accurate too, but when i make a cue, its personal. Im thinking about the person who is going to use it, and what it will take to make them happy. Some want a 60 inch cue because they are tall. Some want a skinny butt because their hands are small. And theres many more scenarios to mention that i havent had yet, im sure. Custom cues are not just pretty, they are made one at a time and often for one person in particular.

Joe

logical
09-30-2013, 05:00 PM
I don't think it's especially new news that you don't need to spend $2500 to be sure you have a cue that isn't holding you back from a career in professional pool.

Most of the big name production cue makers only make maybe 5 or 6 different shafts...and about 150 different butts. The shafts start at maybe $80 and end around $300, But the complete cues run from $100 to $1500 or more. It's all scaled up with a custom cue but I doubt the shaft is more than 20% of the total cost of a high end custom.

Once you have a good shaft mated to a solid butt with a solid joint, the rest is lipstick. ( I know, sounds dirty)

I'll never be convinced a $39 McD cue will hold back a good player, but I also guarantee I could tell it apart from a vintage or even modern Balabuska wearing wool mittens and blindfolded. I agree there is some low price point where the cue has pretty good feel and is within percentage points of the best cues made but in my mind it is a lot closer to $500 than $39.

nineballsafety8
09-30-2013, 05:43 PM
Gentlemen... you miss my point.

So, I will refocus.

Are custom cues worth the money...? Of course they are! Craftsmanship, rarity, materials, history... all these things make the cues we love not only valuable, but invaluable!!!

My point was not that of the "value" of my cheap bang around cue... not even remotely.

My point was that I was I let my cue get in the way of my game. I was too focused on which shaft feels best, and which wood has that perfect pitch, and which tip is the grippiest w/o needing constant grooming and blah blah blah...

My point was that I wanted to remove all trains of thought that led to that... so I bought a super cheap cue and swore to play with it (for a while)... is it going to be the cue I use forever... not a chance lol.

But it helped me ENJOY the game again, and we.should all encourage any new player to charish his equipment, and respect how much you can do with so little...

Thats all I was getting at.

I am in the process.of having one of my custom cues refinished, and after my wife and I get.moved into our new house, I will likely pick up a couple new cues (been wanting a Sly sneaky for a while now, and after talking to Brent, I really want a BHQ too).

So I am not saying stop buying cues, or get rid of the high dollar stuff... im saying love ALL your cues. I put together my first 5 pack with that $39 piece of chinese crap lol


Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

nineballsafety8
04-11-2014, 05:57 AM
Let's bring this back for some fresh eyes :D

poolguy4u
04-11-2014, 06:30 AM
My Kaiser, J&J, and Rhino cues are flying out the door for $35 each thanks to this forum.

Great way to advertise my great hitting cheap cues!:thumbup:

nineballsafety8
04-11-2014, 06:36 AM
My Kaiser, J&J, and Rhino cues are flying out the door for $35 each thanks to this forum.

Great way to advertise my great hitting cheap cues!:thumbup:

lol glad to help

I still use the Kaiser J/B (with some pretty serious modifications...) but I can honestly say if you use it as a dedicated jump cue... there is nothing better

I cut off 4" on the butt, hollowed butt out (forward balance and much less weight), and changed phenolic ferrule/tip combo to G10

It will jump anything from 1/4" away to a full table.

BEAST MODE!!!

JohnPT
04-11-2014, 06:56 AM
I have to say that I take greater pleasure running a rack with an el cheapo cue than an expensive one. It's like "no way you didn't just run out with that POS, oh yes I did!". Lol. On the other hand, I love breaking like a gorrila with my more expensive cues. :cool:

I guess in my mind the cheap cue is not supposed to make balls and the $2k+ cues wear gloves. :grin:

JohnPT
04-11-2014, 07:00 AM
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.

Ok. Now take that Mercedes and turn it into a limo! Lol. That's kinda what I did when I put a Balance Rite extension on my Custom cue. :thumbup:

measureman
04-11-2014, 08:24 AM
Ford focus :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuDN2bCIyus

Not being contrary, but can you be more specific? What could you do with a $4k black boar that you couldnt do with a $150 lucasi? and be honest... given that it is in the hands of B+ or better player.

I know,I know.
You wouldn't leave the Boar on the table when you went to the bathroom. The Lucasi you probably would.
Other then that if you can play you will play the same with either cue. At least I could.

nineballsafety8
04-29-2014, 06:56 AM
BUMP for a fresh look

marco21222
04-30-2014, 06:54 PM
any cue can play just as good as any other if that cue works for you.....I play just as good with my 60 dollar sneaky pete from players as I do with my 2600 sly .....they hit nothing like each other but after a few racks you adjust....just like you adjust in a tourney when you move tables.... but I do prefer the way the sly hits...I worked hard for my sly and love it but sometimes I want to play with a cheap cue depends where I am and how much we are playing for :) I seen a guy run 7 racks with a broom...has you can chalk a wooden broom handle lol

CK6Speed
04-30-2014, 11:24 PM
Maybe for some buying a high dollar cue is all about validating themselves as a pool player, but for many it's just because they liked the cue and could afford to buy it so they did. As for me, people ask me all the time why I have so many cues. I just tell them it's because I like the ones I have and couldn't afford them back in the say, but I can afford them now. It really is as simple as that. I'm not looking for a magic cue that will make me play much better than I do now. If I like it and I have the money, I'll buy it.

I agree with the car analogy although maybe not a Focus vs Mercedes comparison. Why buy the Lexus when the Camry will do the job just as well. The answer for me is simple. People buy it because it doesn't do the job any worse and it looks and feels better and if you can afford it why not?

CMarshall
06-13-2014, 09:35 AM
I'm not able to spend tons of ca$h on custom cues. When I 1st started playing pool seriously in the early 80's, I was BROKE and always used a house cue. I had a favorite cue that I hid behind the bar and used it daily. For probably 4 or 5 years I used that same cue. All the top players at the pool hall used McDermott cues. I always wanted one and drooled over their quality.

Now as a homeowner and a responsible worker, etc I can sort of afford a better cue. I have a table in my house that I bought for $800.00 bucks. I've bought a few cues off of Craigslist etc (the brand name doesn't matter) and I put a McDermott on layaway. I now have three McDermott cues, a G303, a G603 and a Lucky by McDermott one piece house cue, LH21. Honestly, the one piece house cue that cost me $29.00 is the best cue I have! I like the design of the others but as far as playability, the one piece is my favorite cue.

The other two look pretty and I love the quality, etc but even other people that come over, chose the one piece Lucky by McDermott cue. I'm not a league player, I play at home for fun. Three of my friends also have tables and we rotate playing at each others' houses.

Playing pool is a way for me to relax and unwind and have fun. I have my own table and a few decent cues. I'm not a pro, I don't gamble, I will never be in any tournaments. I enjoy pool and my eclectic selection of mainly cheap cues.

It's just funny how my most popular cue is the $29.00 one piece house cue.

SmoothStroke
06-13-2014, 11:11 AM
Earl, Allison and Shane have done pretty well with a Cuetec.

I have run 100 more than a few times, multiple rotation racks, double digit numbers in 3 cushion....all with a house cue, hard as a rock champion tip...hand sanded with paper that was like a grinder. Warped of course.

Now I like a 20 oz cue, steel joint, 4 oz and better dark maple shaft, short ferrule. Prefer weight forward Ebony.
Anything else after that for me....sucks

Give me a cue with an ivory or synthetic joint. Long ferrule and it goes for firewood

I like what I like and all else is firewood to me. Which means crap, it may be good for someone else.

I love all the beautiful cues I see, I can look at cues for hours.
I think the builders today are phenomenal, true works of art to be commended.

I like what I like.

Most people would not know a good hitting cue if it hit them in the face, and that includes me.

Give me an old warped off the rack house cue and I am good to go…ha-ha
True Story

fastone371
06-13-2014, 11:27 AM
Not a good comparison as a Mercedes can outperform a Focus regardless of the driver's skills. Just put it on a dyno.

The same cannot be said about a pool cue.

I suppose you could compare a new ZR-1 Vette to an Italian, German, or French Supercar, but the cheaper Corvette will out perform almost all of the others at a very small percentage of the cost.

u12armresl
06-13-2014, 11:32 AM
You're a retarded monkey with polio wearing bunched up panties? better get to a doctor quickly.

Glad you have your moon stick now.

So, before anyone gets their panties in a twist... I am going to go on a medium rant about cues and why there is so much "perfect hit" crap going on.

SO.....

I have been playing off and on for about a decade, and at one point was playing 5+ hrs a day, 365... since joining the Army, I no longer have that luxury. However, in my several years as an avid hobbyist, I have been through upwards of 20 cues. I was always looking for the next big thing when it came to cues and technology and who was the new hot cuemaker... blah blah blah

After spending WAY TOO MUCH MONEY on cues over the years, it has become evident to me that what you spent, or who's name is on your cue is pretty pointless.

For me its all about feel. I like a cue that gives me good feedback, and there is a certain sound that I like my cues to make when I hit a ball well (mostly the tip and ferrule combination account for the sound). So, I have to ask myself, why do I keep looking for the next best thing, when I have now and have had SEVERAL cues in the past that play great.

And what I realized, was that it was 2 fold. The main fun for me was the HUNT, I love doing the research and dreaming up what I think might make me happy. But more importantly, and the part that has my feathers ruffled... is that PART of me was caring about what other peoples reaction were when I answered the question "hey, what kind of cue is that".

SO... what did I do? I benched all of my high dollar equipment, and bought a "McDermott" LUCKY cue... $39 from Amazon PRIME... and guess what fellas (and ladies)... IT PLAYS GREAT. So what if it was made in china, or taiwan, or the moon... i don't care if it was made by retarded monkeys with polio... as long as it plays well.

So will I continue to look for the Tascarella's, Szamboti's, Southwest's, Sugartree's, and whoever else might make people go ooooh and ahhhh... ya probably. But it will no longer be becaue I feel I need to validate myself as a "pool player"... im going to validate myself as a POOL PLAYER, by calling fouls on myself (regardless of if my opponent sees it), by being the first one to extend my hand for a worthy handshake to my opponent (win or lose), by never complaining about rolls (they are good and bad, and both players are on the same table), and by enjoying THE GAME!!!

If I decide I want to buy a nice cue, it will be to appreciate the hardwork and craftsmanship of the person behind the lathe... it will no longer be to give myself "the edge" above the next guy.

MY edge will come from hard work and dedication when I am at the table.



Curious as to your thoughts?

please discuss ;)

fastone371
06-13-2014, 11:40 AM
Like I said with in reason. A amature in a Ferrari won't out run a Pro in a corvette.

The Ferrari will not outrun the current hi end Vette whoever you put behind the the wheel of the Ferrari,bad example to use. Kind of funny when you think about, makers of taxi cabs build cars that outrun exotic Super Cars. :rotflmao1:
As far as the cue thing, the way a cue hits/feels is so subjective and personal I think it would be very hard to say that everyone or even most would prefer the $2k cue over the $40 cue. It would be pretty easy to test in a blind test, who is gonna do it? Only catch would be that the budget cue cant have that cheap feel that some do, I cant explain it but I think everyone knows what I mean. Surprisingly i found out that I really like the feel/hit of those Cuetech 1 piece house cues. If you could make it look like a custom I could probably be fooled into paying quite a bit for a cue that feels like those.

THE MONTREALER
06-13-2014, 12:28 PM
HI I have at least 20 cues pool cues and snooker cues and i hate to part with them. Some are cheap cues and some are high end cues

Back in the Seventys i had the oppertunity to purchase a Balabushka Original cue from Peter Tascarella made up as follows Rosewood with
green Inlayed points tip size 12 1/4 mm with Ivory Ferrules and weight of 19 1.2 oz length of cue 58 inches with two shafts and the cue was built in the 60 sixties by George Balabushka for $450.00 plus Shipping costs

I still have the letter from Peter Tascarella and every time i look at
the letter my stomach turns.

At the time $450.00 was a lot of Money spoke to a few people and they told me that that cue Today would be worth more than $5,000.00

To this day i regret not purchasing this cue you win some and you
lose some.

Cheers Leonard

mantis99
06-13-2014, 01:04 PM
I'm sorrry but if you are trying to tell me your McD Lucky cue, plays as good as a Tasc., Sugartree, etc. Your opinion holds almost no value to me. It might play OK with a tip, and retaper, but it isn't going to have premium shaft wood, it won't have the good hit that those cues do, nor will it transfer energy like a well made cue does. Not to mention deflection from a McD lucky shaft compared with a premium shaft. Heck, I've never even seen one that rolled straight... I do have a friend that plays a McD with Keith shafts that plays pretty, after refacing the joint.

I'm not one to go out and drop huge bucks on a name cue, but a nice 350-500 custom from Keith Kues, Pat Diveny, Woodworth, or any other reputable, quality cue maker, will out play most cues. It will hold value, and usually out last the other cue. (i.e. stay straight, finish holds up better, etc.) Hell, I once picked up a Steve Klapp cue for like $225, and it's still one of the best playing cues I've ever hit.

There is no A+B=C formula for cue buying, or playing pool for that matter. However, better gear definitely doesn't hurt your game. I've been beat up on by guys with house cues, and guys with $10k+ cues, I know the argument both ways very well. My gear comes with a sense of pride. I love this game and I work hard at it. My cues are a treat to myself for putting in the time to justify owning such gear. That's my opinion anyway.

All the best,

Justin Hanson

I disagree about the cues playability. I have a few different cues, and one of them is. $30 graphite cue I got at Walmart when I first started playing. I can make the cb do the same thing with that cue that I can do with any other cue I have. They each feel a little different doing it, and their properties of deflection and balance are a little different, but that is nothing that a little adjustment by me doesn't account for. I just don't believe that any decent cue (I did have a few hollow feeling cues that came with my first cheap table that were almost unplayable) really plays that much better than another. I have bought expensive ld shafts too, and while they make some difference, it has just never been what I expected, or anything all that significant.

I was watching an accurate match of Efren a while back from when he had first come over here, and the announcers made it a point to say that he was using a $30 cue. He made the ball move all over the table just like any other time.

Sure a custom cue does hold it's value better, but the difference in play from any decent cue over $100-$120 is negligible.

jburkm002
06-13-2014, 01:47 PM
There was a link to a YouTube video on here a while back. It was a round table discussion with cuemakers. Some had the attitude that they were selling art. Others were selling art and playability. I don't think price dictates playability. It may dictate craftsmanship but not in all cases. Sure some times your paying for the name. Just like with the shoes you wear. Don't care how much a cue cost but to say they all play the same is just wrong.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

mantis99
06-13-2014, 01:51 PM
There was a link to a YouTube video on here a while back. It was a round table discussion with cuemakers. Some had the attitude that they were selling art. Others were selling art and playability. I don't think price dictates playability. It may dictate craftsmanship but not in all cases. Sure some times your paying for the name. Just like with the shoes you wear. Don't care how much a cue cost but to say they all play the same is just wrong.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I didn't say they play the same. The hit, feel, and balance point are all somewhat different. However, the amount that actually affects how the cb reacts when it is hit with the tip is negligible. Thus, you can use just about any cue and put similar amounts of action on the cue, and play just as well.

roberthans
06-13-2014, 01:54 PM
Every so often and fairly regularly someone says if you take a Rambushkatierrez against a golden tomato stake everyone will pick the Rambushkatierrez. Has anyone ever tried a blind test with non and low level players(or even experienced players) to see if this is true?

Banks
06-13-2014, 02:07 PM
Every so often and fairly regularly someone says if you take a Rambushkatierrez against a golden tomato stake everyone will pick the Rambushkatierrez. Has anyone ever tried a blind test with non and low level players(or even experienced players) to see if this is true?

Where I hang out, they've got a few oddball cues in the mix. A couple that are half red and half black, a couple that are old, cheap jointed cues and so forth. People tend to gravitate to either a cue that rolls straight(roll on the table), what they think looks better or a specific weight that they think is best. Not sure they could tell a house cue from a Black Boar.

I ditched my primary player for a cut bar cue. Came within a couple of balls of besting my high runs for banking and 8b last night. Most people can't stand playing with my cue, but I ditched a couple of decent cues in favor of it and am going on almost 2 years of playing with it. People occasionally tell me to try their cues.. I do and they just feel like any other cue to me.

Straightpool_99
06-13-2014, 02:11 PM
.................

qbilder
06-13-2014, 02:40 PM
It's all personal. I would prefer a Timex watch over a Rolex because the Timex is digital & it's no big deal if I lose it. I don't want a fancy watch, anyway. Both tell accurate time and both have long lasting quality. A guy who doesn't see the big deal in having a custom cue so he buys a cuetec instead, may be the same guy who prefers to wear a Rolex. I don't think he's an idiot for it. It's personal. Nobody is right & nobody is wrong. There's no disputing the fact that a Rolex is higher quality, finer, better looking, and still worth something after being used. Same with a custom cue. A cue can be made to fit a person's preferences. But if said person has no preference, a custom cue is pointless. Again, it's very individualistic. And to the OP'd point, sometimes it's nice to take the Rolex off & wear a Timex for a while to keep things in perspective.

buckshotshoey
06-13-2014, 04:00 PM
Not sure how this old post got resurrected, but its a pretty good one.
Great playing cues come in all price ranges. The acid test..........
Pick 3 cues of the same model, with same tip, and test against each other. Well made cues will feel and play pretty close to the same. Low quality cues will hit and feel ....and sound...differently.

Several years ago, I had 3 players on the team that used Players (edited) cues. All 3 had LePro tips. All 3 were from same model line but were different designs. ALL 3 FELT AND SOUNDED DIFFERENT.

Recently, I had opportunity to hit 3 Predators. 3 different models, but all with 314-2 shaft.
All 3 felt and sounded the same. Thats why I am a fan off high tech shafts. Replace the shaft and the next one feels and plays the same. Same can be said about a high quality maple shaft. Viking makes great shafts. Schon makes great shafts. OB and Predator make great shafts. Pechauer makes great shafts.

The point being, ladies and gentlemen, is producing quality takes time and money. These companies have a lot of wood waste. Discarding matetial that doesnt make the grade. Curing process of blanks take time. Thats how you gain radial consistency, and stable wood that resist warping over time. And the biggest benefit is the feel stays consistent from one cue to the next.

I will stress radial consistency as higher on my list then deflection. Thats why I like a 314. Take a cheaper cue and mark it. Hit some balls using left or right english keeping the mark pointing up. Now turn the cue 90 degrees and hit some more balls. Low quality wood, or wood with a hidden defect, will show's itself here. All things being equal, you do get what you pay for.

Mitchxout
01-30-2015, 06:58 AM
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.

This is an interesting analogy. According to Consumer Report Magazine, Mercedes is one of most unreliable cars available. Basically, you're buying prestige, not performance.

Mitchxout
01-30-2015, 07:04 AM
It's all personal. I would prefer a Timex watch over a Rolex because the Timex is digital & it's no big deal if I lose it. I don't want a fancy watch, anyway. Both tell accurate time and both have long lasting quality. A guy who doesn't see the big deal in having a custom cue so he buys a cuetec instead, may be the same guy who prefers to wear a Rolex. I don't think he's an idiot for it. It's personal. Nobody is right & nobody is wrong. There's no disputing the fact that a Rolex is higher quality, finer, better looking, and still worth something after being used. Same with a custom cue. A cue can be made to fit a person's preferences. But if said person has no preference, a custom cue is pointless. Again, it's very individualistic. And to the OP'd point, sometimes it's nice to take the Rolex off & wear a Timex for a while to keep things in perspective.

Rolex's keep crappy time. Another example of conspicuous consumption versus actual usefulness. I've owned both, Mercedes and Rolex, and there's no worse feeling in the world than buyers remorse.

jaetee
01-30-2015, 07:28 AM
This is an interesting analogy. According to Consumer Report Magazine, Mercedes is one of most unreliable cars available. Basically, you're buying prestige, not performance.

Yup. That's why I (strong German lineage) drive an Acura. ;)

TheBook
01-30-2015, 08:31 AM
Most comes from the skill of the player. I seen Corey playing in a match game where he had to use his break cue using no chalk. Didn't seem to affect his game much. Sure he would play at a higher level with his regular cue but that is why he gave that spot.

🎱

TheBook
01-30-2015, 08:33 AM
Rolex's keep crappy time. Another example of conspicuous consumption versus actual usefulness. I've owned both, Mercedes and Rolex, and there's no worse feeling in the world than buyers remorse.

plus the maintenance. getting the Rolex serviced every 3 to 5 years as they recommend cost a minimum of $750 and goes up from there.

🎱

eddie0776
01-30-2015, 10:19 AM
quote...For me its all about feel. I like a cue that gives me good feedback, and there is a certain sound that I like my cues to make when I hit a ball well (mostly the tip and ferrule combination account for the sound). So, I have to ask myself, why do I keep looking for the next best thing, when I have now and have had SEVERAL cues in the past that play great.


This is the reason I began making my own cues in 1993. I had bought and played with all of the known cues at the time and didn't like anyone of them completely. I liked a little bit of each of them. So i decided that it cant be that hard to make a cue and went to working on building a cue that I liked. I was a senior in high school using the school's equipment. The first couple were horrible but I learned so much more with the mistakes than I did with the success. I bought cues to cut them apart to see how things were put together. Over the years I have found out what I think is a great playing cue, but to someone else they might think they are junk. The thing is I spent the time and money to make ME a cue, not to go into business to make cues to sell. I do my best to not make more than 12 cues per year with 1 being for me. I refused to sell cues for 4 years because I was still trying to find the right formula for what I think is a good cue. I guess until you have been behind a lathe and actually know what little things to do to change the hit of a cue it is hard to understand what really goes into making cues. I would never put down another cue maker because I didn't like their cues because of the work and knowledge it takes just to build a cue that rolls straight. When someone asks me about how my cues compare to others I will always say the same thing and that is....everyone has different tastes, like men, some like big girls, some like tiny and some don't care. Do I think some are priced way too high? Yes, but the reason is simple economics....supply and demand. Look at the waiting list just to get a cue made for people like Southwest, Gina cues, Cognoscenti and the list goes on and on. Those are great made cues and the people that want one are willing to pay for them. Can a cheap cue play as good as an expensive cue absolutley. Look at what Efren played with forever.