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Banks
09-17-2013, 11:46 AM
It's really bugging the hell out of me. I've had this problem more in the past, but thought I had gotten over it. Last night, I played and couldn't run a few balls in a row in 9b to save my life, but was either running out or close pretty often in 8b.

Anybody else have this problem or have any ideas? I know it's mental, but it's like knowing you shouldn't scratch a mosquito bite. Got a few tips about it, but wouldn't mind hearing more.

Or I can just call it a lousy game and say I don't want to play it next time! :thumbup:

justadub
09-17-2013, 01:02 PM
I'll not presume to give you actual advice, but I'll share my experience.

I had a similar situation for a while. Getting shape was (and still is) such a challenge for me playing 9-ball, whereas I usually didn't run into the same level of challenges playing 8. Of course, 8-ball was all I knew for a long time.

Now that I've gotten into a routine of 8 on Tuesdays, 9 on Thursday's evened things out for me. I find that each game works out different parts of the game, so I feel that it has helped me improve.

Now if I could only get on the right side of the damned ball more consistently :.p

cardiac kid
09-17-2013, 01:13 PM
John,

It's going to take more than that to convince me you have a playing problem :p . No matter what your problem may be, I want the seven :grin: !!!!!

Find every once in a while I get into a funk and can't make a ball playing nine ball. My best guess is I'm over thinking. Worrying about whether to use a touch of spin and / or get a better angle on the next ball.

Know how well you play eight ball. Just keep up the good work. It will all fall into place.

Lyn

Banks
09-17-2013, 01:23 PM
I'll not presume to give you actual advice, but I'll share my experience.

I had a similar situation for a while. Getting shape was (and still is) such a challenge for me playing 9-ball, whereas I usually didn't run into the same level of challenges playing 8. Of course, 8-ball was all I knew for a long time.

Now that I've gotten into a routine of 8 on Tuesdays, 9 on Thursday's evened things out for me. I find that each game works out different parts of the game, so I feel that it has helped me improve.

Now if I could only get on the right side of the damned ball more consistently :.p

I was told to tune out my voices when playing 9b, but either I couldn't or it wasn't working. I went from playing run-out 8b to feeling like I couldn't make 3 balls in a row playing 9b. For some reason, I can consistently make balls much easier playing 8b.

Edit: Oh, and never underestimate what even lower players say. Just because they can't execute as well doesn't mean that they don't have something to add that could help. I've asked lower players to show me how they make certain shots, just like I've shown some better players how to make certain banks.

John,

It's going to take more than that to convince me you have a playing problem :p . No matter what your problem may be, I want the seven :grin: !!!!!

Find every once in a while I get into a funk and can't make a ball playing nine ball. My best guess is I'm over thinking. Worrying about whether to use a touch of spin and / or get a better angle on the next ball.

Know how well you play eight ball. Just keep up the good work. It will all fall into place.

Lyn

Lol! No 7 for you! I saw where you were on the bracket. We'll play 8b and I'll take the breaks. :embarrassed2:

Well, between what I was told last night, what Dub said and now this.. maybe I'll start training myself to just get up and shoot when it comes time for 9b.

Next time, we switch to a small table. That'll solve part of my problem! :thumbup:

West Point 1987
09-17-2013, 01:35 PM
8 ball is a pattern game (like 14.1 and One Pocket); 9 ball is rotation. If you spend most of your time running racks of 8 ball, you've interalized the nuances of the game to the point it seems easier to you than 9 ball. If you play more 9 ball, you'll get to the point that you don't have to think so hard about leaves, mostly angles; it just flows...then your 8 ball game will go to the dogs. Everyone says 8 ball is so much easier than 9 ball...I love watching a rotation player "step down" to some 8 ball, then watch as he misses a pinpoint leave he needs to get that one problem ball or cluster that is always there in every rack. Priceless.

bdorman
09-17-2013, 02:34 PM
I'm a 2 yr newbie but 8-ball has always seemed like an easier game in terms of running out. You simply have higher probabilities of having a good shot on any next ball in 8-ball; in 9-ball the probabilities are lower because there isn't an "any next ball", there's only the lowest number ball on the table. Over- or Under-run position on the lowest number ball and you're in trouble.

In 8-ball you'll have a situation like "I'll pocket the 14 and get shape on the 9. If I over-run the 9 I'll still have shape on the 12, which can get me back to the 9." You don't have that option in a rotation game.

It's interesting to me that one game (8-ball) gets harder as the game progresses while the other (9-ball) gets easier. I think 8-ball gets a bad rap since really good players can consistently run out. But for equally matched C players it involves a lot of strategy.

Pidge
09-17-2013, 02:42 PM
I've played English 8 ball and snooker since I was 6. Been playing 9 and 10 ball for a few years now and I really struggled when I made the transition. What got me was the amount of english and how often I needed to use it in 9 ball. Something I was never used to. Because position was different and whitey had to move further in 9 ball I'd find my self concentrating on position, and take my eye off pocketing the ball.

Keep at it!

ceodynamo
09-17-2013, 03:08 PM
I have always said 9 ball on a bar box is easier than 8 ball. however on a big table 9 ball is harder and 8 ball is easier. Both are good games to play and practice for the skills in one game will compliment the other.

As said in previous post you can, early on in a rack, in 8 ball find more than one way to break out a ball or find another way to get shape on a ball. In 9 ball yes most of the time there is only one way to break the cluster out.

In my opinion if you want to be serious about pool and see how good you can get than you should learn to play everygame; 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, straight pool 14.1, and 1 pocket. Hell learning to play and practice billiards is great practice.

Just another opinion amongst the masses.

Banks
09-17-2013, 03:18 PM
I have always said 9 ball on a bar box is easier than 8 ball. however on a big table 9 ball is harder and 8 ball is easier. Both are good games to play and practice for the skills in one game will compliment the other.

As said in previous post you can, early on in a rack, in 8 ball find more than one way to break out a ball or find another way to get shape on a ball. In 9 ball yes most of the time there is only one way to break the cluster out.

In my opinion if you want to be serious about pool and see how good you can get than you should learn to play everygame; 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, straight pool 14.1, and 1 pocket. Hell learning to play and practice billiards is great practice.

Just another opinion amongst the masses.

We were playing on a Rebco, I think it was, with 4" pockets and Champion(?) felt that seemed more at home on a barbox. We started with 9 and I did so-so. Then we played some banks and split two sets. 1P was the same, I think, with lopsided wins for each. We moved to 8 and I bnr the 3rd rack and almost the next - got too much draw for my last shot and made it real funny like. The next race to 4 I finished with a full run-out with only 1 ball down, I think. When we changed back to 9 to finish the night, it was like I hadn't played before. I like 14.1, too, but don't get a chance to play too often. 10b is just strange. :confused:

Pidge, I think that touches on part of it, too. For 8, I see what I want to do and then hone in on the shot.. I think. For 9, I may actually be doing it backwards, telling myself that the shot matters more and then trying to fudge it to get the leave, resulting in fudging the whole shot altogether.

Lonestar_jim
09-17-2013, 03:28 PM
Is your 9 ball game suffering from misses or positional problems ?

I assume you are a b player or higher, therefore you're likely looking at the whole pattern through the 8 after your first shot in 8 ball. Some allowances for choice might be available depending on the layout.

9-ball won't afford choice of ball, but might dictate a risky shot or safety over following the pattern when getting out of position.

Maybe your slump is a result of expecting to run out and not adjusting when a safety is the percentage choice for a win.

Best wishes to overcome.

Banks
09-17-2013, 03:31 PM
Is your 9 ball game suffering from misses or positional problems ?

I assume you are a b player or higher, therefore you're likely looking at the whole pattern through the 8 after your first shot in 8 ball. Some allowances for choice might be available depending on the layout.

9-ball won't afford choice of ball, but might dictate a risky shot or safety over following the pattern when getting out of position.

Maybe your slump is a result of expecting to run out and not adjusting when a safety is the percentage choice for a win.

Best wishes to overcome.

Mostly misses. :(

Local A, probably B overall.. hopefully. :embarrassed2:

I am a gopher, but even the shots I was dropping without a problem in 8b I was missing in 9b.

Thanks, Money-Bag.

BobTfromIL
09-17-2013, 03:39 PM
I really have a problem with 14.1, just can't seem to get through the rack. My 8 ball is
a little stronger, really don't play much 9 ball. I personally think 14.1 is a much more difficult game.

voiceofreason
09-17-2013, 03:56 PM
8 ball is a pattern game (like 14.1 and One Pocket); 9 ball is rotation. If you spend most of your time running racks of 8 ball, you've interalized the nuances of the game to the point it seems easier to you than 9 ball. If you play more 9 ball, you'll get to the point that you don't have to think so hard about leaves, mostly angles; it just flows...then your 8 ball game will go to the dogs. Everyone says 8 ball is so much easier than 9 ball...I love watching a rotation player "step down" to some 8 ball, then watch as he misses a pinpoint leave he needs to get that one problem ball or cluster that is always there in every rack. Priceless.

I'll concur with that..

Tramp Steamer
09-17-2013, 04:14 PM
It's really bugging the hell out of me. I've had this problem more in the past, but thought I had gotten over it. Last night, I played and couldn't run a few balls in a row in 9b to save my life, but was either running out or close pretty often in 8b.
Anybody else have this problem or have any ideas? I know it's mental, but it's like knowing you shouldn't scratch a mosquito bite. Got a few tips about it, but wouldn't mind hearing more.
Or I can just call it a lousy game and say I don't want to play it next time! :thumbup:


Banks, my friend, do yourself a favor and learn to play One Pocket. You'll thank me and Grady Mathews, later. :)

Lonestar_jim
09-17-2013, 06:33 PM
just to let everyone know on march 29, 30 at classic billiards in rochester ny we will be having a $5000.00 added event. confirmed players earl strickland, keith the quake mCcready, charlie williams, allen hopkins, plus other top players from all over the world.we also have 40 local people playing. i just got word from valley forge that the assasin evegny stalev is coming.last year earl beat charlie in the finals. hope to see everyone there. you wont want to miss it. see you next week keith.
rich

I think I posted on top of your reply to Pidge, who from his previous avatar is no stranger to dress up, lest I'm confusing people.

Back to your reply, thanks and good luck Sand bag. (USES SECRET HANDSHAKE)

Black-Balled
09-17-2013, 06:38 PM
I can only play 9b. Sounds like we got the beginnings of a road team.

You got any money?;)

LHP5
09-17-2013, 07:08 PM
Alot more cue ball movement in 9-ball, so if your stroke isn't as developed it will be harder than 8-ball. That right there is why newer players find 9-ball more difficult.

Banks
09-17-2013, 07:44 PM
I can only play 9b. Sounds like we got the beginnings of a road team.

You got any money?;)

Once I get fired for excessive internet use i can collect unemployment, so that'll take care of cash. Not sure how far I can make it on a bike, but if we start in Denver, then we can just coast downhill from there. Yosemite has a nice downhill route, too. I may be on(to) something.

Half the time I can run some in 1p, you just play the other half.

Johnnyt
09-17-2013, 08:14 PM
If you play 8 ball at say a "B" level you should be pretty close to that in 14.1 if you play it often. As far as 9 and 10 ball, that's a completely different game. You're moving the CB from one end of the table to the other often. Johnnyt

RiverCity
09-18-2013, 01:27 AM
Next time, we switch to a small table. That'll solve part of my problem! :thumbup:

Lol. No it won't....... :thumbup:
Chuck

Pete
09-18-2013, 07:09 AM
If you play 8 ball at say a "B" level you should be pretty close to that in 14.1 if you play it often. As far as 9 and 10 ball, that's a completely different game. You're moving the CB from one end of the table to the other often. Johnnyt

Johnny,

What kind of runs should a B player be able to do in 14.1???

CreeDo
09-18-2013, 08:07 AM
What you're experiencing is actually perfectly normal. 8 ball is just an easier game.
I'm a fan of 8b, I enjoy it, I'm not bashing it. But it's just easier to run a whole rack.
You get to pick the simplest shot with the simplest shape and if you don't pull it off,
there's usually a plan B that won't test you too much.

Obviously every rack is different and some 8b racks are a nightmare and some 9b racks are
connect the dots. But on average, in the long run, 8b is easier to run out.

The statistics bear this out - look at the recent US Open 8 ball match, shane vs. biado.
Out of 24 games, 23 of them were either break'n'run, or rack'n'run.
Only in game six did neither player get out in a single inning.

That's obviously a very strong performance, but in part it's because 8b is just easier.
In 13 breaks, Shane failed to get out twice, about 85% runout rate.

Shane, being the best 10b breaker alive and playing at his strongest vs. Mike Dechaine,
only ran out ~50% in 10b.

You will not see 85% in a long set of 9b or 10b, and probably won't see 23/24 runouts between 2 players.

Banks
09-18-2013, 10:03 AM
Lol. No it won't....... :thumbup:
Chuck

Oh yeah? First game's for a soda next time!

What you're experiencing is actually perfectly normal. 8 ball is just an easier game.
I'm a fan of 8b, I enjoy it, I'm not bashing it. But it's just easier to run a whole rack.
You get to pick the simplest shot with the simplest shape and if you don't pull it off,
there's usually a plan B that won't test you too much.

Nah, it wasn't that I couldn't run out the 9b racks because they're "harder", it was that I could shoot fine playing 8b and then in 9b I couldn't shoot for doo. I had this problem in the past, too, but I thought I had gotten past it. I'll miss the same shots in 9 that I'm making in 8.

For now, I'm going to chalk it up to being off after playing well, maybe because I just had a smoke, maybe because it was a big table with tight pockets or maybe, just maybe, I felt bad for him being down! :eek: :D

fastone371
09-18-2013, 01:59 PM
At my skill level all pool games are hard:eek: I have a 9 footer at home that I play a lot on, I agree that 9 ball is tougher than 8 ball, especially cause you are moving cue ball so much more and all it takes is to get on wrong side of the ball and your run is over.On 8 ball even though I try to see my run before I shoot it never goes as planned, its more of a fluid game for me I would say.

RiverCity
09-18-2013, 02:05 PM
For now, I'm going to chalk it up to being off after playing well, maybe because I just had a smoke, maybe because it was a big table with tight pockets or maybe, just maybe, I felt bad for him being down! :eek: :D

I know, my back was killing me..... :p
Chuck

Snapshot9
09-18-2013, 02:26 PM
"Controlling whitey is 70% of the game" - Jimmy Caras, 3 time World Champion