PDA

View Full Version : Questions about draw stroke


3RAILKICK
01-11-2014, 08:16 AM
I'm not sure how to ask this....

(re. level cue draw shots)

Is an effective draw stroke at different distances a combination of how low and how hard the cb is struck?

Is part of the calibration of the draw distance, the acceleration of the tip through the ball? Or rate of acceleration? Or constant speed through the ball?

Example: On draw shot with balls a diamond apart...where you need to draw the cb half the table, do you hit hard but just below center, or lower on the ball, easier with a much lower speed with constant forward motion, or easier with an accelerating hit, or easier hit with an increasing rate of acceleration?

I have seen different styles to get same result. Some hard and fast while level. Some as above, hit softer, lower and with a moderately accelerating stroke. Some elevated.

Seems like there may be more than one right way.

I favor the easier hit, accelerating draw stroke, when possible, rather than a hard hit. I don't like to hit the cb hard unless no other option...for most shot, not just draw shots.


Does the idea of acceleration and increasing rate of acceleration make sense to anyone?



....just Saturday morning rambling about some of the lotta pool stuff that I don't really get.:eek:

John Brumback
01-11-2014, 08:57 AM
From what I have noticed,the people that have trouble drawing are never hitting the cue ball low enough.Even though they think they are. That's probably not the answer you are looking for. Just thought I would throw that out there. John B.

Kim Bye
01-11-2014, 09:21 AM
If you can, video tape yourself while doing draw shots.
It will be easy to see what you are doing wrong.
Some generalisation:
As Mr. Brumback said: You are not hitting low enough on the cue ball. There might be several reasons for that, but it seems that a not level enough cue is the main culprit.
Too long bridge length seems fairly common.
Tensing up is something i do on long draw shots and something i see alot of players do.
- Stay down
- Stay still
- PUSH THROUGH, don`t poke at the ball!
- Get as level as possible
- Don`t use more power than you can controll.

TATE
01-11-2014, 09:32 AM
In my opinion, in most cases, the most reliable way is to hit a tip low or so, and regulate the draw with force. This gives you almost no chance of miscue and pretty decent control.

If you need a lot of draw, which should only happen once in a great while if you're playing good angles, then you need to scruff the tip and go really low.

I had the bad habit of dipping down too low on every draw shot, which can easily cause miscues, so I've been developing a more controlled draw shot.

In this video I was doing an AZ billiards 15 ball drill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XrXUAUTkd8

I got too straight on several shots and had to use a lot of draw - the pockets are super tight so you can't cheat them. On the 5 ball shot, the 10 ball and the 14 - those are my normal draw strokes. On the 9 ball I had to use a lot of draw and hit very low. On the 9 ball final stroke, you can see my tip skidding on the cloth - well below where I was marking the cue ball.

iusedtoberich
01-11-2014, 10:21 AM
The answer is you have to be an expert at all the scenarios you mention, in order to be an expert at pool.

Many games/shots you can choose to do any of the combinations you mention, because the OB is going into the pocket, and its speed is of no consequence. But as soon as you start playing one pocket or bank pool, or more safeties in 9 ball, you will realize you need complete control of the CB no matter what speed it strikes the OB at. Hence, you need to be able to play all over the CB, and at all different speeds.

<======== Does not have that complete control, hence is not a pool expert:)

randyg
01-11-2014, 11:22 AM
Draw is also a trade off of Speed & Spin plus Angle of delivery.

randyg

Philthepockets
01-11-2014, 11:35 AM
There are in the draw shot all the variables previously mentioned.
Keep in mind that the lower you strike the CB the more accurate cueing you need, also the more power the more difficult to control.
Keeping a fairly consistent cue speed and adjust where you strike the CB will yield consistent results.
Watch Darren or Mika for prime examples of consistent cue speed over a varied number of shots.
note: the key to getting the expected reaction of the CB is the ensure you have one last look at the CB before moving to the OB this is absolutely the best insurance as to where your tip is going, as JB said earlier not hitting where you think you are is the most common fault.

mikepage
01-11-2014, 12:27 PM
I'm not sure how to ask this....

(re. level cue draw shots)

Is an effective draw stroke at different distances a combination of how low and how hard the cb is struck?[...]

Yes. It's this simple. Acceleration has nothing to do with it

SCCues
01-12-2014, 05:12 AM
Drawing the cue ball can be accomplished different ways like you described. I think whichever method you described that works the best for you is the best. I can draw the ball pretty well, but if I'm not careful I'll have the back of my cue too high and that will lead to miscues and poor draw strokes. I like to get as level as possible, chalk up, and follow through the cue ball. I control the length of the draw with speed of stroke. If you stroke level and your tip is chalked properly you won't miscue and with practice you can control the length of the draw pretty well.

APA BRIAN
01-12-2014, 05:36 AM
The way I think of it... The draw stroke is in fine gradations depending on the application (i.e. how much draw you need). You have to combine hitting low on the cue ball and a stroke where the wrist follows through and you create a controlled extension through the CB. The least amount of this is in a stop shot. The most is a 3 or 4 etc.. rail draw stroke. You must constantly practice draw to acquire the feel you need to distinguish between a 4 inch draw or a 3 foot draw. Put your time on the table with practice. A good draw stroke already mentioned is Mika's as well as Larry Nevel's. Good luck.

sawtex
01-12-2014, 06:30 AM
"Pause on back stroke" Advice I got here on AZ two years ago that has improved my draw allot.
Long straight in with draw, pause and look at cue ball last. That gives me the best chance of hitting the
cue ball where intended and reduces the risk of unintended throw. This works well for an old man who
has had years to develop bad habits.

dr_dave
01-12-2014, 02:15 PM
I'm not sure how to ask this....

(re. level cue draw shots)

Is an effective draw stroke at different distances a combination of how low and how hard the cb is struck?

Is part of the calibration of the draw distance, the acceleration of the tip through the ball? Or rate of acceleration? Or constant speed through the ball?

Example: On draw shot with balls a diamond apart...where you need to draw the cb half the table, do you hit hard but just below center, or lower on the ball, easier with a much lower speed with constant forward motion, or easier with an accelerating hit, or easier hit with an increasing rate of acceleration?

I have seen different styles to get same result. Some hard and fast while level. Some as above, hit softer, lower and with a moderately accelerating stroke. Some elevated.

Seems like there may be more than one right way.

I favor the easier hit, accelerating draw stroke, when possible, rather than a hard hit. I don't like to hit the cb hard unless no other option...for most shot, not just draw shots.

Does the idea of acceleration and increasing rate of acceleration make sense to anyone?

....just Saturday morning rambling about some of the lotta pool stuff that I don't really get.:eek:FYI, answers to all of your questions and many more related to the draw shot can be found on the draw shot technique advice resource page (http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/draw.html#advice) (the videos there are particularly informative and illustrative) and the draw shot physics-based advice resource page (http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/draw.html#physics).

Quick summary: both tip position and speed are important. Acceleration at impact is not important, but acceleration during the forward stroke is critical.

Enjoy,
Dave

PaulieB
01-12-2014, 02:33 PM
Yes. It's this simple. Acceleration has nothing to do with it

Acceleration does have something to do with it. If you hit the cue ball barely hard enough to reach the object ball, how much draw are you going to get? Regardless of how much backspin you have, you'll get a stop shot, at best. All the backspin will have died by the time it reaches the object ball.

Honestly, the biggest problem I see people having with drawing isn't "not hitting low enough on the cue ball" ... it is not following through with the stroke. So many amateurs tend to poke at the cue it kills their stroke. Try to intentionally follow through 3 inches past the cue ball on a draw shot and watch the cue ball shoot back at you. It feels unnatural at first, as you think that following through on a draw shot will foul as you will lift the cue ball, but the cue ball is long gone by the time you follow through. Once you get used to the full follow through on draw shots, you will see the difference and then you can learn to control it via tip placement and force.

mikepage
01-12-2014, 03:23 PM
Acceleration does have something to do with it. If you hit the cue ball barely hard enough to reach the object ball, how much draw are you going to get? Regardless of how much backspin you have, you'll get a stop shot, at best. All the backspin will have died by the time it reaches the object ball.

I think you are confusing speed and acceleration.

Speed is how fast the stick is moving. This matters
acceleration is how fast the speed is changing. This doesn't matter.

--except in the trivial sense that acceleration before impact is required to get the speed

iusedtoberich
01-12-2014, 03:29 PM
Almost everyone missed the point of the op's question, IMO. He didn't ask how to draw. He asked of the different combinations of speed, elevation, and contact point on CB, [that result in the same draw reaction on the CB] is there a preference.

IMO you have to be well versed in all of them. The game you are playing and the situation at hand will determine which method to use. The biggest difference in the outcomes of the various methods is the OB speed. This is huge in 9 ball safety play, and almost every one pocket and bank pool shot. It's also very big on straight pool break shots.

PaulieB
01-12-2014, 03:33 PM
I think you are confusing speed and acceleration.

Speed is how fast the stick is moving. This matters
acceleration is how fast the speed is changing. This doesn't matter.

--except in the trivial sense that acceleration before impact is required to get the speed

Ah yes, I am most definitely interchanging the two. I just wanted to point out that speed at impact does make a difference.

Scaramouche
01-12-2014, 03:52 PM
Itís the fault of the tip!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn1QzfOvk8I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvPA99EdCKk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2lgr15QFk4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKz5wXmjvow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuM0hjpHuVA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la0yjU6RzXY

Island Drive
01-12-2014, 06:52 PM
I'm not sure how to ask this....

(re. level cue draw shots)

Is an effective draw stroke at different distances a combination of how low and how hard the cb is struck?

Is part of the calibration of the draw distance, the acceleration of the tip through the ball? Or rate of acceleration? Or constant speed through the ball?

Example: On draw shot with balls a diamond apart...where you need to draw the cb half the table, do you hit hard but just below center, or lower on the ball, easier with a much lower speed with constant forward motion, or easier with an accelerating hit, or easier hit with an increasing rate of acceleration?

I have seen different styles to get same result. Some hard and fast while level. Some as above, hit softer, lower and with a moderately accelerating stroke. Some elevated.

Seems like there may be more than one right way.

I favor the easier hit, accelerating draw stroke, when possible, rather than a hard hit. I don't like to hit the cb hard unless no other option...for most shot, not just draw shots.


Does the idea of acceleration and increasing rate of acceleration make sense to anyone?



....just Saturday morning rambling about some of the lotta pool stuff that I don't really get.:eek:

I've always liked Sigels explanation of how to draw your ball. Hit thru whitey and finish with your tip on the cloth. Of course delicate shots this in not the norm.

the chicken
01-12-2014, 07:43 PM
I practice about 12 to 14 hours a week. As my stance and stroke improve, so does my ability to draw the cue ball.