PDA

View Full Version : Nathan Demoulin


Blue Hog ridr
01-14-2014, 02:25 AM
Yep, I had a bad attitude toward Nathan and Bonus Ball.

I didn't quite care for some of the things or the way that Nathan put across to the members re Bonus Ball.

Well, In Florian's DVD thread, I made a comment toward Nathan. He sent me a polite PM back asking me what my problem was. I told him, politely of course and received another PM back explaining his position and job with Bonus Ball.

He called it a rant, I told him that it wasn't a rant, rather a polite explanation on his side.

I try to be a non judgmental person. My wife told me that is what she has always liked best about me. Even if you're non judgmental, you can still have an opinion on things that bug you.

Seems that I now feel that I was wrong about Nathan and his points so for that, Nathan, I apologize for more than one snotty comment to you.

Maybe, with Nathans permission, I will post his well thought out PM so others can read his feelings re his job with Bonus Ball.

I feel that its very genuine sans any BS.

I do think that I had him pegged all wrong in this case.

I know how Nathan came across both to myself and other members here, but once I read his explanation for how he felt about things, it changed my mind.
No one is perfect, not me by a long shot and and probably many other members would agree also.

I still don't hold Chibbs and BB in a very high regard but my opinion of Nathan has changed considerably.

He was just doing the job to the best of his ability that he was hired to do and in some aspects, more was expected of him than was his duty.

He would be the first to admit some of the things that went awry with BB and he should not be held accountable for someone elses problems.

Just my take on it.

Fast Lenny
01-14-2014, 02:31 AM
You could at the least spell the guys last name right, haha. Just kidding around. :p

Blue Hog ridr
01-14-2014, 02:45 AM
Aw shit, I don't do French all that well any more.
I did when I was younger.

I spelled his first name wrong didn't I.

Black-Balled
01-14-2014, 04:55 AM
I think Nathan was put in a very difficult position, trying to maintain allegiance to both the azb and blowed up ball.

As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I don't think his video skills or his passion for pool can be questioned.

JAM
01-14-2014, 05:24 AM
I think Nathan was put in a very difficult position, trying to maintain allegiance to both the azb and blowed up ball.

As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I don't think his video skills or his passion for pool can be questioned.

I agree with you. Nathan was caught between a rock and a hard place. All my interactions with him via private messages were amiable. I kind of felt bad for him.

That said, he is currently on a proverbial "black list" of some industry members, rightly or wrongly. They say time heals all wounds, though.

Nathan also experienced a nightmare scenario with the Bonus Ball, moving to Vegas, et cetera, having to move back to Canada. Everybody involved has suffered.

A lot folks are condeming the BB pro players, and I understand the "why," but I also empathize with the BB pro players. They're only trying to survive in a fractured pool industry that bans, ridicules, and looks at American pro players as pariahs. They have to eat, too, just like the rest of us. Of course, they're going to go where the money is flapping in the wind. I'd have done the same thing if I was offered a "guaranteed payday."

In sum, nobody wins with Bonus Ball. Everybody loses, even Larry. In fact, Larry, due to his ignorance and lack of business fortitude in an already-hurt pool world, lost the most. :(

justadub
01-14-2014, 05:36 AM
I am certainly interested in this thread. And I hope that Nathan gives you the go-ahead, Terry, because I want to hear it.

I am one that was offended at the attitude shown towards AZB during the whole fiasco. That, in and of itself, means little, as the statement is somewhat accurate...I wouldn't be buying their product so I guess I wasn't part of "the target" audience. Still, the whole attitude, at least the way I read it (multiple times) put me off.

Perhaps that is the part of me that strives to find a diplomatic way to most interactions. I found the lack of diplomacy, especially in a new company trying to make a name for itself, disturbing. It just didn't make sense.

I am certainly open to reconsidering my opinion. I know how talented Nathan is, his work with Florian speaks for itself. And I certainly don't have to agree with everything anyone says to be able to respect them.

Good on you, Terry, for speaking up.

***edited*** after reading it, I come off rather sanctimonious. Nathan doesn't owe me crap. My thoughts on the subject still stand, be he don't owe me nuthin. It's his road to travel...

PINKLADY
01-14-2014, 06:21 AM
Nathan and i made up, too @ Mosconi. he and his crew were in the stands everyday, and at the after party. he's pretty cool - for a Canadian....;)

Icon of Sin
01-14-2014, 06:44 AM
With the exception of Bonus Ball... Ive liked everything Run Out Media has done. Im not one for trick shots, but I bought Florian's DVD. I have the Running Out DVD set as well and that is great.

Their DVDs have a great production quality to them. Really amazing stuff.

Good on you Blue.

Nostroke
01-14-2014, 07:14 AM
In sum, nobody wins with Bonus Ball. Everybody loses, even Larry. In fact, Larry, due to his ignorance and lack of business fortitude in an already-hurt pool world, lost the most. :(


Very true but so utterly avoidable. . One of the worst business decisions i have ever seen. If he'd just listened! I've never been in business. I didnt even need a pencil to see that the numbers had no chance of working.

decent dennis
01-14-2014, 07:36 AM
Yep, I had a bad attitude toward Nathan and Bonus Ball.

I didn't quite care for some of the things or the way that Nathan put across to the members re Bonus Ball.

Well, In Florian's DVD thread, I made a comment toward Nathan. He sent me a polite PM back asking me what my problem was. I told him, politely of course and received another PM back explaining his position and job with Bonus Ball.

He called it a rant, I told him that it wasn't a rant, rather a polite explanation on his side.

I try to be a non judgmental person. My wife told me that is what she has always liked best about me. Even if you're non judgmental, you can still have an opinion on things that bug you.

Seems that I now feel that I was wrong about Nathan and his points so for that, Nathan, I apologize for more than one snotty comment to you.

Maybe, with Nathans permission, I will post his well thought out PM so others can read his feelings re his job with Bonus Ball.

I feel that its very genuine sans any BS.

I do think that I had him pegged all wrong in this case.

I know how Nathan came across both to myself and other members here, but once I read his explanation for how he felt about things, it changed my mind.
No one is perfect, not me by a long shot and and probably many other members would agree also.

I still don't hold Chibbs and BB in a very high regard but my opinion of Nathan has changed considerably.

He was just doing the job to the best of his ability that he was hired to do and in some aspects, more was expected of him than was his duty.

He would be the first to admit some of the things that went awry with BB and he should not be held accountable for someone elses problems.

Just my take on it.

I agree your not perfect ,by a long shot. just kidding. :D

CreeDo
01-14-2014, 07:38 AM
I've had some PM conversations with him too, and he strikes me as a good guy
who can be kind of blunt. And he's good at what he does which can result in a
kind of cocky vibe. But that sort of thing is pretty common in the pool world,
and I don't think anyone should take it personally.

cuesblues
01-14-2014, 07:43 AM
Nothing wrong with a guy defending something that he put so much blood, sweat, and tears in to.
I'm sure the initial production was a lot of work, so I respected Nathan for being passionate about Bonus Ball.

Bonus Ball did look like it would be fun to play, not a lot of fun to watch, but interesting.

Roger Long
01-14-2014, 08:05 AM
I've had several face-to-face and PM interactions with Nathan, and my feeling about him is the same as Blue Hog's. Not too many people know of the intense pressure Nathan was under during the start-up of Bonus Ball.

Roger

cleary
01-14-2014, 08:19 AM
I think Nathan was put in a very difficult position, trying to maintain allegiance to both the azb and blowed up ball.

No, I think he put himself in that position. He should have never pretended to be the PR department because he did more harm than good on AZ for bonus ball.

I've known Nathan for many years. He does pretty good video work and puts in way more effort than he'll ever be compensated for in his projects but because of our interactions and his shady business ethics with others, I have little respect for him personally.

Eric.
01-14-2014, 08:36 AM
No, I think he put himself in that position. He should have never pretended to be the PR department because he did more harm than good on AZ for bonus ball.

I've known Nathan for many years. He does pretty good video work and puts in way more effort than he'll ever be compensated for in his projects but because of our interactions and his shady business ethics with others, I have little respect for him personally.

Here we go...


Eric >hope I don't get sued by Bud Light

cleary
01-14-2014, 08:45 AM
Here we go...


Eric >hope I don't get sued by Bud Light

Where we going?

rayjay
01-14-2014, 09:10 AM
Good move, Terry. Everybody has opinions and feelings and airing them out always helps. Not too many admit their wrongs around here.
Also, I'm always surprised when a pool player is surprised that another pool player has "shady" business dealings...lol.

Roger Long
01-14-2014, 10:02 AM
No, I think he put himself in that position. He should have never pretended to be the PR department because he did more harm than good on AZ for bonus ball.

I've known Nathan for many years. He does pretty good video work and puts in way more effort than he'll ever be compensated for in his projects but because of our interactions and his shady business ethics with others, I have little respect for him personally.

Were his "shady business ethics with others" truly shady? It might be easier to consider that statement if we had details.

Roger

Eric.
01-14-2014, 10:17 AM
Where we going?

I was calling my dog, Wego.


Eric

cleary
01-14-2014, 10:31 AM
Were his "shady business ethics with others" truly shady? It might be easier to consider that statement if we had details.

Roger

I stated my opinion on the subject at hand and in a very polite way so I don't think it matters how you consider my statement. People who are in the know already know the details.

Mark Griffin
01-14-2014, 11:29 AM
Ya gotta love Cleary. Just lay it out there!

I am sure it is none of 'our' business what the business dealings were.
(But I think I know).

It is usually best to not say anything if you cant say anything nice. So with that in mind:

I think Nathan does some good stuff - however, he won't be working with me for quite some time. He had plenty of opportunity to treat people with a little more respect and yet he didn't.

I am not going to get into any kind of debate with anyone - just go back and read some of the threads and posts a few months (years) ago.

Mark Griffin

The Saw
01-14-2014, 12:51 PM
Its one thing to give a pass to stand up people like Griffin, Greg Sullivan, Mike Zuglan, etc.... if they screw up because it simply rarely ever happens, if at all. But there is a lot to be said against doing so for people who have developed a pattern of repeatedly screwing the pooch. Nathan is one of them, Earl is another, Bill Stroud & a slew of different cue makers, people on the bad action list, Kevin Trudeau, Larry from Bonus Ball, Don Mackey, the list goes on........... If you screw up more than most, you're going to catch more shit than most, its just how things work. There's way too much forgive and forget around this place.

The Saw
01-14-2014, 12:53 PM
ac·count·abil·i·ty noun \ə-ˌkau̇n-tə-ˈbi-lə-tē\

Definition of ACCOUNTABILITY

: the quality or state of being accountable; especially : an obligation or willingness to accept responsibility or to account for one's actions

kittykat
01-14-2014, 01:14 PM
ac·count·abil·i·ty noun \ə-ˌkau̇n-tə-ˈbi-lə-tē\

Definition of ACCOUNTABILITY

: the quality or state of being accountable; especially : an obligation or willingness to accept responsibility or to account for one's actions

He knew from day one that Chibby had no money and was trying to raise money through gullable investors. That I was confirmed by Vpbb. I also heard a conversation and saw cpoies of emails sent to him by Vpbb. He tried to fool the pool world and when that did not work out, he resorts to saying not my fault.

He has got everything that was coming to him. Forgive him for being young and niave, sure. Just watch your back around him!

Roger Long
01-14-2014, 02:35 PM
I stated my opinion on the subject at hand and in a very polite way so I don't think it matters how you consider my statement. People who are in the know already know the details.

You may have stated your opinion, and It may have been in a polite way, but what you actually did was to try and pre-qualify it by making an accusatory statement about Nathan without providing any information to back that statement up.

At this point, my overall opinion of Nathan is a good one. If anyone here knows something really bad about him other than, "he was impolite to us," I'd like to hear it. My opinion just might change.

Roger

Cory in DC
01-14-2014, 02:54 PM
I still can't believe the number of people on AZB who go into vapors over an offhand remark in a message board post that "they are not the target market." The great me is not in the target market, well then BB sucks and Nathan sucks! That has always seemed like a huge overreaction to me--and you can see in this thread that people are still bringing it up.

Probably about 1% of active APA players are registered at AZB. Is it so crazy that the target market might be the several hundred thousand APA players instead of AZB? Or some fraction, even a very small one, of the millions of people who play pool casually?

Sure, it would definitely have been better for Nathan to have written that sentence differently; for example, "AZB is only a part of our target market." But some people seem a little too bent out of shape over that.

Long story short, Nathan is clearly very good with video (less so with streaming), works hard, and is passionate about pool. Those are good things in my book.

Cory

cleary
01-14-2014, 03:03 PM
At this point, my overall opinion of Nathan is a good one. If anyone here knows something really bad about him other than, "he was impolite to us," I'd like to hear it. My opinion just might change.

Rodger you're welcome to think of him however you want. There was a time I felt the same way. I'm not trying to sway anyones opinions.

easy-e
01-14-2014, 04:01 PM
Probably about 1% of active APA players are registered at AZB. Is it so crazy that the target market might be the several hundred thousand APA players instead of AZB? Or some fraction, even a very small one, of the millions of people who play pool casually?

Cory

Then why DIDN'T they market it to the masses? I play in a lot of different bars, clubs, pool rooms around the country and the only people who have even heard of Bonus Ball are the AZB members.

For the record, I like Bonus Ball (the game, not the organization). My two favorite games are one pocket and straight pool, so I really enjoyed watching the matches. But anyone who thinks that AZB wasn't their main audience needs to get out there and interview some of their "target audience".

shinobi
01-14-2014, 05:52 PM
I still can't believe the number of people on AZB who go into vapors over an offhand remark in a message board post that "they are not the target market." The great me is not in the target market, well then BB sucks and Nathan sucks! That has always seemed like a huge overreaction to me--and you can see in this thread that people are still bringing it up.

Probably about 1% of active APA players are registered at AZB. Is it so crazy that the target market might be the several hundred thousand APA players instead of AZB? Or some fraction, even a very small one, of the millions of people who play pool casually?
Cory

It's a little strange that you defend their marketing techniques when they have already proven to be a monumental failure.

Cory in DC
01-14-2014, 07:30 PM
It's a little strange that you defend their marketing techniques when they have already proven to be a monumental failure.

It's even stranger that you say I've defended any marketing techniques, when what I posted is that it's silly for people on AZB to get so worked up over the "not the target audience" post by Nathan.


Ease-e -- Good question. I don't know the answer. More events of the type they recently did with Frost and Morris would have been a great idea.

HollyWood
01-14-2014, 08:32 PM
leaving ( filming of a Tournement- in the us. He had az members help in that rough time. I got Pool dvds from him in a timely fashion. mark .

Johnson
01-14-2014, 09:08 PM
the whole "well he's never done anything bad to me" school of thought boggles my mind, maybe just maybe u never gave them the opportunity to do so? or just maybe they're good @ hiding their shadiness or covering it up after a lifetime of experience in doing so?

"once is an accident, twice is coincidence and three times is enemy action"

i remember reading a bonus ball topic on here and he was arguing w jay helfert, if that doesn't send up a gigantic red flag i dunno what else would when it comes to pool

TATE
01-14-2014, 09:10 PM
Yep, I had a bad attitude toward Nathan and Bonus Ball.

I didn't quite care for some of the things or the way that Nathan put across to the members re Bonus Ball.

Well, In Florian's DVD thread, I made a comment toward Nathan. He sent me a polite PM back asking me what my problem was. I told him, politely of course and received another PM back explaining his position and job with Bonus Ball.

He called it a rant, I told him that it wasn't a rant, rather a polite explanation on his side.

I try to be a non judgmental person. My wife told me that is what she has always liked best about me. Even if you're non judgmental, you can still have an opinion on things that bug you.

Seems that I now feel that I was wrong about Nathan and his points so for that, Nathan, I apologize for more than one snotty comment to you.

Maybe, with Nathans permission, I will post his well thought out PM so others can read his feelings re his job with Bonus Ball.

I feel that its very genuine sans any BS.

I do think that I had him pegged all wrong in this case.

I know how Nathan came across both to myself and other members here, but once I read his explanation for how he felt about things, it changed my mind.
No one is perfect, not me by a long shot and and probably many other members would agree also.

I still don't hold Chibbs and BB in a very high regard but my opinion of Nathan has changed considerably.

He was just doing the job to the best of his ability that he was hired to do and in some aspects, more was expected of him than was his duty.

He would be the first to admit some of the things that went awry with BB and he should not be held accountable for someone elses problems.

Just my take on it.

Have you ever considered that it may have been YOUR negative energy that shitcanned Bonus Ball? I hope you're happy with yourself, Terry.

PINKLADY
01-15-2014, 03:36 AM
Have you ever considered that it may have been YOUR negative energy that shitcanned Bonus Ball? I hope you're happy with yourself, Terry.

you're kidding, right?

i joined AZB last JUN because i bet KK9 $1.00 on Bonus Ball - NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS - but knowing the Vegas logistics of ability to stream. i cleaned-up 30 days later. and Nathan & i squared @ Mosconi on our $3.00, cause he gave me the keys to the building to shoot, as well as the BEST Thai restaurant for dinner.

Bonus Ball's demise, had nothing to do with any of us.

even a lay-person saw it coming.

JumpinJoe
01-15-2014, 04:26 AM
you're kidding, right?

i joined AZB last JUN because i bet KK9 $1.00 on Bonus Ball - NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS - but knowing the Vegas logistics of ability to stream. i cleaned-up 30 days later. and Nathan & i squared @ Mosconi on our $3.00, cause he gave me the keys to the building to shoot, as well as the BEST Thai restaurant for dinner.

Bonus Ball's demise, had nothing to do with any of us.

even a lay-person saw it coming.

The best Thai restaurant is next to the cue club. Lotus of Siam. It's been the best for years, even back when I lived there.

Where did he send you?

easy-e
01-15-2014, 04:35 AM
It's even stranger that you say I've defended any marketing techniques, when what I posted is that it's silly for people on AZB to get so worked up over the "not the target audience" post by Nathan.


Ease-e -- Good question. I don't know the answer. More events of the type they recently did with Frost and Morris would have been a great idea.

I completely agree.

easy-e
01-15-2014, 04:37 AM
The best Thai restaurant is next to the cue club. Lotus of Siam. It's been the best for years, even back when I lived there.

Where did he send you?

Panda Express.:thumbup:

Fast Lenny
01-15-2014, 04:44 AM
The best Thai restaurant is next to the cue club. Lotus of Siam. It's been the best for years, even back when I lived there.

Where did he send you?

I am putting my money on Lotus, Thai food is not my favorite but that place is delicious. :thumbup:

PINKLADY
01-15-2014, 04:52 AM
The best Thai restaurant is next to the cue club. Lotus of Siam. It's been the best for years, even back when I lived there.

Where did he send you?

are you seriously asking me to recall something from Mosconi week...?
Lotus rings a bell....some "flower" something....and it was near the pool hall....
all i know, is that is was THE BEST THAI i have EVER HAD from NY to CA.
and Nathan was right.