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twiztid_cue
05-20-2003, 08:33 AM
my follow and draw are suffering. Lets start with my follow.

My stance is a normal stance for me but i get the cue as level as possible to where i want to strike the cueball. I feel that my follow through is not there. it is uncomfortable to get a good follow through. the same thing with my draw.

My draw i normally get the cue as level as possible to the bottom half of the cue ball where i want to strike it. Now i have been watching a lot of the players i play with and they do things a lil differnet. They will lift the cue on an angle so its not almost paralell with the table but to where it is striking almost on a 30* angle and they get great draw. But when i try it is uncomfortable. is there a way around this.

Joseph Cues
05-20-2003, 11:52 AM
Follow stroke, don't accelerate through the cue ball. "Push" with the bottom of your tip.
Draw stroke, accelerate through the cueball with a loose wrist and hit the cb with the top of your tip. Do not use your shoulder as it would hamper your cues acceleration.

accdealer
05-20-2003, 12:39 PM
firstly, make sure that you have a nicely shaped tip on your cue. secondly, remember that the harder you hit the qb, the longer it takes for the spin to develope. don't confuse stroking better with hitting harder. lastly, try this simple exercise. take all 15 balls and put them together on the table out of the way. grab one and put it on the spot. simply take the cue ball and line it up straight in with the ball on the spot and the corner pocket, with roughly 12" in between the two. now, decide if you would rather practice draw or follow, and practice pocketing the ball on the spot with whichever stroke you choose. i would say that once you get the draw or follow working, continue to shoot this shot until you get consistent results 15 times in a row. i would do this once a day before you shoot any other games or practice. and remember, each time you do it, when you successfully draw 15 times in a row, and follow 15 times in a row, go to the other side of the table and do it again. in this excersise, you can experiment with different stroke techniques and easily see and compare the benefits/drawbacks of each one and hopefully choose one that feels natural and works well for you. this will definitely get your stroke in gear for draw and follow strokes within a weeks time if you do it every day. if you try it, like it and it works, post the results here and i will give you another one to try.

one last thing. with any stroke of the cue, it is extremely important that your elbow be at a right angle when the tip of your cue is ready to make contact with the cue ball. this is a very important fundamental and cannot be overlooked.

twiztid_cue
05-20-2003, 12:53 PM
what do you mean be at a right angle. i know 90* but is that with my shoulder, my elbow (being the point of the angle), and my wrist beign the other end. Is that what you are talking about?

fxskater
05-20-2003, 04:25 PM
I don't feel qualified to answer your question with so many pros and BCA certified instructors on the board, but i do win just about every local bar tournament in my small town so i do feel i have a little bit of useful input.
Here is a small secret that you might not know. Raise and lower your bridge for follow and draw shots. I use the exact same stroke that i have worked so hard to perfect with just a slightly altered bridge. If you wanna see someone draw a ball watch Efren Reyes. He can put what looks like no effort into a shot, Medium stroke, and draw a ball the length of the table. Another great thing to try is taking a striped ball and sitting it on the table so the the stripe is perfectly horizontal. The top edge of the stripe is where you can hit it for the maximum amount of follow and the bottom edge of the stripe is where you hit it for maximum draw. So just chalk up fiarly well and try and hit exactly that line when practising these shots. Then inspect the ball, see where you actually hit it, and practice again. You don't need a very hard stroke to draw or follow the ball great distances. After you can hit the perfect spot on a striped ball for maximum follow or maximum draw practice with the cue ball. It should get alot easier.

twiztid_cue
05-21-2003, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by fxskater
Another great thing to try is taking a striped ball and sitting it on the table so the the stripe is perfectly horizontal. The top edge of the stripe is where you can hit it for the maximum amount of follow and the bottom edge of the stripe is where you hit it for maximum draw. So just chalk up fiarly well and try and hit exactly that line when practising these shots. Then inspect the ball, see where you actually hit it, and practice again. You don't need a very hard stroke to draw or follow the ball great distances. After you can hit the perfect spot on a striped ball for maximum follow or maximum draw practice with the cue ball. It should get alot easier.

That is not a bad idea. thanks for the little tip. I am going to try that for a while tonight and see what happens. And I can see what you mean by altering your bridge. I see a lot of the people i play with do that and i notice sometimes when I do that it does work a lil better.

Kerry
05-21-2003, 10:43 AM
While I'm just a so-so player (B level), one thing I can do is draw the hell out of the ball.

I think the advice about raising and lowering your bridge is very helpful.
One thing that helped me a lot is to spend some time looking at the cue tip contacting the cue ball. Get your head down as low as you can and really watch the tip go through the bottom of the cue ball.
Another thing that helped me is to find some magazines that are about the height of where the bottom of your tip will be when you do a draw shot. It doesn't have to be magazines. Just anything relatively soft and smooth that is flat and level and won't move around. Now, arrange the magazines so that they cover all the space for at least a 2 foot follow through. In other words, go to a table, lay down whatever object you choose so that it covers the table under where your cue will be, and just practice stroking over it. The goal is to keep your tip very close, almost touching the object. It should remain the same height from the point you would have hit the cue ball to well past (I don't think 2 feet is unreasonable for this drill, but at least 1 foot). I know you won't be following through 2 feet, but it is just an excercise. You might need to spend a lot of time doing this in slow motion, until you reconfigure your stroke to do it smoothly and accurately. This really helped me a ton in developing a straight, level stroke. Another thing you might want to do is put a line of 1/2" masking tape down the line of your stroke on the backs of the magazines, so you can make sure your tip is going level AND straight. See if you can do this stroking very fast, but smoothly. In other words, cover the whole range of speed. Incidentally, this drill also works wonders for the break shot.

Good luck,

KerryM

twiztid_cue
05-21-2003, 11:46 AM
that sounds good but verry hard to follow. maybe its just cause i am tired at work and then im full from a bday party hear today.

Kerry
05-21-2003, 01:46 PM
I realized while I was typing that I had a tough time wording it. Let me try again:

1) Get a couple of magazines. Let's say "Time" magazine. It's approx. 8x11". A better magazine is one the same size but about 1/4" thick. Maybe a catelog of some kind? Maybe you could use an old phne book and just rip out pages until it is the right thickness.
2) Go to a (preferrably pool) table. Set up a shot with the cueball. Get into your stance and address the cue ball. Now lower your tip for draw. See how high your tip is off the table now? That is how thick you want your magazines.
3) get rid of the cueball, and put the magazine on the table where it was. You now can stroke your cue above the magazine. use another magazine, and put it end to end with the first one, so you now have a magazine patch on the table 8" wide and 22" long. The long side orients down the line of the shot.
4) You can now stroke along the length of the magazines, being sure to keep your tip at the same height, basically just barely in contact with the magazines.
5) You can put a line of tape from the bottome of the first magazine to the top of the second one. This would connect the two magazines together (which is convenient if you happen to hit them with your cue). Also, it will provide you with a way to make sure your tip isn't moving from side to side.
6) Practice stroking slowly, quickly, etc. with a long LEVEL follow through. By keeping your tip almost in contact with the magazine, you can be sure that it is remaining level.
7) Your bridge hand, by the way, is on the table surface, not the magazine.

Hopefully this is more clear? It really is helpful, I hope you understand what I mean.

KerryM

twiztid_cue
05-21-2003, 01:52 PM
now i get it. that seems like it would work. im gonna give it a try.

Bluewolf
05-24-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by twiztid_cue
my follow and draw are suffering. Lets start with my follow.

My stance is a normal stance for me but i get the cue as level as possible to where i want to strike the cueball. I feel that my follow through is not there. it is uncomfortable to get a good follow through. the same thing with my draw.

My draw i normally get the cue as level as possible to the bottom half of the cue ball where i want to strike it. Now i have been watching a lot of the players i play with and they do things a lil differnet. They will lift the cue on an angle so its not almost paralell with the table but to where it is striking almost on a 30* angle and they get great draw. But when i try it is uncomfortable. is there a way around this.

Actually, there are different techniques for draw, depending on the situations. I learned draw from two different instructors. Both of them taught me draw, but a differen approach. I think that this is good, because it gives me more tools.

Am not qualified to teach, this is just my .02

Laura

Skeezicks
05-24-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Bluewolf
Actually, there are different techniques for draw, depending on the situations. I learned draw from two different instructors. Both of them taught me draw, but a differen approach. I think that this is good, because it gives me more tools. What are the two different techniques that you have learned?

Bluewolf
05-25-2003, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by Skeezicks
What are the two different techniques that you have learned?

I am not a qualified instructor and am afraid that if I described it, I might leave out important details. I am the learn by doing type and although I can do these techniques adequately, it is harder to put on paper and I might leave something out.

Basically, there is the low and level one with full follow through, but it has its pitfalls too. You have to be so low on the ball, practically touching the cloth. If you hit the cb a little higher, it ends up being closer to a stop shot. There is also the risk of hitting the cloth,scooping the ball. For a person to do this kind of draw requires a lot of practice and very good technique. For me to do this, I cannot look at the object ball becaus when I do this, my cue comes up resulting in a stop.The only way I can do this one right is to look at the cb. If I do not do a full follow through, it also ends up being a stop or a crappy draw.

Also, even if a person was near perfect, there are situations where this type of draw cannnot be used.

So I learned the low and level from one instructor and some instruction on other type of draws from another instructor. For me, it is a matter of reading the situation to know which one to use. There are a few instructors who teach the other ones, but IMO, it is also almost intuitive. What I mean by this is that the instructor teaches the technique, then the pool player has to read the situation and decide how to use or vary the technique.

Laura

Bluewolf
05-25-2003, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by twiztid_cue
my follow and draw are suffering. Lets start with my follow.

My stance is a normal stance for me but i get the cue as level as possible to where i want to strike the cueball. I feel that my follow through is not there. it is uncomfortable to get a good follow through. the same thing with my draw.

.

To have a good follow through requires a good stroke. Follow through is one piece of the aspects of a good stroke.

Once again, I have had good instruction on this.

In your follow, does your cuetip end up level or pointing down or does it end up pointing up?

If your cue is pointing up on regular shots (not talking about power shots such as the break), it is from what my instructors have told me, an indication of a stroke problem or from looking up before completing the follow through.

Laura

Skeezicks
05-25-2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Bluewolf
So I learned the low and level from one instructor and some instruction on other type of draws from another instructor. I'm familiar with the low and level. Tell us about the other type of draws.

Bluewolf
05-26-2003, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by Skeezicks
I'm familiar with the low and level. Tell us about the other type of draws.

It is kind of like a continuum. The low and level is at one end and the 'barroom draw' ie cue very elevated an chop down hard on the cb at the other end. While the barrom draw does not sound like good technique, there are times, when it is the only draw that one can use, like when close to the rail or when balls very close together. There are variations in between, depending on the shot.

Since I do not have many skills in my position reperatoire, i use the things I am competent in.

A good forceful draw can be useful in breaking up clusters or knocking an opponents ball out of the pocket, as long as you do not scratch.

It is hard to teach because i do not think when I am doing it, only afterwards when someone asks me why I did that particcular shot. Then I scratch my head and go hmmm and think of a reason.

As far as that technique, the one that is not low and level, Fast Larry taught it to me, but now I do not know how in words to do it, I just do it.

It is like most things in pool. I practice them in practice. In matches I just do them and sometimes am doing variations of what I was taught, so in a way am doing what I was not taught, going off in a rhythm of my own.

Laura

twiztid_cue
05-27-2003, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by Bluewolf

In your follow, does your cuetip end up level or pointing down or does it end up pointing up?

If your cue is pointing up on regular shots (not talking about power shots such as the break), it is from what my instructors have told me, an indication of a stroke problem or from looking up before completing the follow through.

Laura

Well my follow has gotten much better and i am confident with it. my draw is gettign there with me actually seeing results. i watch and learn they go try. 2 of my friends that help me are amazing. 1 of them won the 9 ball championships in clifton, and the other the 8 ball. i cant wait to play on a league with these guys.

Bluewolf
05-27-2003, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by twiztid_cue
Well my follow has gotten much better and i am confident with it. my draw is gettign there with me actually seeing results. i watch and learn they go try. 2 of my friends that help me are amazing. 1 of them won the 9 ball championships in clifton, and the other the 8 ball. i cant wait to play on a league with these guys.

My follow through is very set due to good instruction. I am prettty good but not perfect on the draw. When my draw does not work, I try to figure out why so that I will draw better.

In choosing the type of draw, I pretty much use 'fly by the seat of my pants'. Just do it. Dont think about it which means I cannot tell someone else how to do it or in what situations.

I played bar pool 30 years ago so could already do the barroom draw. The other types I was taught, but dont really think about which one to use.

Laura

larry732
04-17-2015, 06:00 PM
I am 88 years old and can still draw a ball a full table, which started me thinking,(how come) I am a BCA instructor in Ct for many years and recentlyI in analyzing the stroke I realized that applying english, draw and high follow to a cue ball it has to be done with a push stroke, keeping the cue tip on the ball as long as possible and not with your normal pool stroke, where you hit though the ball. It also requires soft hands and a smooth stroke. With english you almost have to feel a twanging sensation as you spin the ball. It maybe considered billiard stroke. I did a test with a few very good players by putting the cue ball on the center spot and a ball inch off each side pocket And had the player shoot straight down table and try to pocket the ball in the side pocket. They missed by six inches to a foot. After explaining the push stroke they all started to get much more movement on the cue ball. Also important is not to come in on center ball and then shift to english. Come in with two tips of english on your get down.Try it you'll love the things you can do with a push stroke. Larry AKA N.Y.Larry

Tramp Steamer
04-17-2015, 06:19 PM
Here's a possibility that may be hindering your draw, and probably your follow, as well.
Just as you are making your stroke, to hit the cue ball, you may be tightening your grip on the cue to the point where you've killed most of the action of that stroke.
Keep the right hand relaxed and fluid as you strike old whitey, and follow through to the cloth. :smile:

Patrick Johnson
04-17-2015, 06:30 PM
The "secret" to good follow and draw is simply to hit the CB where you intend to. That's harder than it sounds (as you know), but it's really all there is to it.

Work on your stroke's accuracy and repeatability. Everything else is beside the point.

pj
chgo

dr_dave
04-18-2015, 07:11 AM
The "secret" to good follow and draw is simply to hit the CB where you intend to. That's harder than it sounds (as you know), but it's really all there is to it.

Work on your stroke's accuracy and repeatability. Everything else is beside the point.Agreed.

If you use a marked ball (a Jim Rempe CB, or an Elephant Practice Ball, or just a "stripe"), you can check the contact point on the ball after the hit to verify whether or not you are hitting the ball where you think you are.

For general stroke advice, see the stroke technique advice resource page (http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/stroke.html#technique).

And for the draw shot, check out the online videos on the draw shot technique advice resource page (http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/draw.html#advice). They cover all of the important elements fairly well.

I hope that helps,
Dave

TX Poolnut
04-18-2015, 08:11 AM
This might be the oldest thread ever resurrected after death. 😱😵😨