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View Full Version : Take a guess: what kind of cloth is this?


tjlmbklr
07-01-2006, 02:10 PM
I want to take a different approach to my dilemma. Based on the pictures, what type/Brand of cloth do you think this is. It is only a few months’ olds, well maybe more like 6 months or more. And I am no longer pleased with it. The reason I upgraded to this type and brand was to have a cloth more comparable to the pool hall where I shoot league. I will state my dilemma when I get some opinions from people. The pictures don't do much to show the real problem, but hopefully people will be able to see what it is that is bothering me.

Sore_Aintya
07-01-2006, 02:36 PM
Corduroy?:confused:

powderburner
07-01-2006, 02:42 PM
Wow. IPT special?

Williebetmore
07-01-2006, 02:55 PM
what type of cloth do you think this is..

Tj,
It's gray. That's the problem. I hate the gray (looks great, but I can't play with that gray chalk, it sucks). Good luck (cause that cloth looks bumpy).

tjlmbklr
07-01-2006, 03:14 PM
Wow. IPT special?

Do you mean "slow nap"?

Corduroy?

Is it because it looks ruff?

Tj,
It's gray. That's the problem. I hate the gray (looks great, but I can't play with that gray chalk, it sucks). Good luck (cause that cloth looks bumpy).


Ding ding ding, we have a winner, except it isn't grey and yes it is very bumpy, or more like fuzzy. It is "Camel" Simonis 860. Why so ruff looking, you tell me. I have been plagued with this for months now. The pictures are nothing compaired to the real thing. When the light shines through the window it has such a raised fuzziness to it, that it sickens me. It's Simonis 860 for crying out loud. I even wrote to Simonis and eventually talked to a rep on the phone. Then I sent these pictures, her response; "looks fine to me" I have only cleaned it with a brush maybe 3 times (the one the Rec. room store gave me). And let me just put this out there NO IT'S ISN'T ON UPSIDE DOWN. I since bought some "quick clean" and I keep it covered most of the time. I know for sure it plays slower then the pool hall I shoot at. I yet to call the rec. room supply store, because I am trying to get the opinion of as many people as possible.:mad: :confused:


Here is my origanal post if anyone wants to help me out.

Simonis 860 question (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=33026&highlight=simonis+fuzzies)

Sore_Aintya
07-01-2006, 03:35 PM
Is it because it looks ruff?

Yes. It looks like a pair of pants my mother made me wear when I was in 1st grade.:(

How bad does the ball roll on soft shots?

tjlmbklr
07-01-2006, 06:24 PM
Yes. It looks like a pair of pants my mother made me wear when I was in 1st grade.:(

How bad does the ball roll on soft shots?

It's actually not that bad. It does do that little side to side thing as it is almost stopped we're talking fractions here. But that could be due to the basic ball set I have.

mnShooter
07-01-2006, 06:28 PM
That's the way Simonis is. If you want smooth get Championship Tour Edition or the Gorina. It is way faster and will show all the rolls. Also don't ever brush your table or wipe it with a wash cloth. Use a vacuum with a soft brush attachment or the Quick Clean stuff.

NineBallNut
07-01-2006, 06:34 PM
I have never had simonis due that on my table or any that I have installed. Was it like that from the beginning or just a recent thing?

Devil
07-01-2006, 06:50 PM
Wrong side up...

powderburner
07-01-2006, 07:14 PM
I think it is wrong side up also. Tried to get a photo of some simonis scraps on my table, the left piece is the side supposed to be down and the right piece is right side up.

tjlmbklr
07-01-2006, 07:17 PM
I have never had simonis due that on my table or any that I have installed. Was it like that from the beginning or just a recent thing?


I started to notice it more and more as time past. I do most of my pool playing after work. And now that it is summer the light shines through the window(project still in progress, no blinds yet). Where as earlier in the year it was usually dark after work and I didn't notice so much.

tjlmbklr
07-01-2006, 07:20 PM
Wrong side up...


I'll post pictures of a piece I kept to break off of, (ball burn) and show the difference from top and bottom. IT FOR SURE, BETTING MY LIFE ON IT, WITH A MADMAN POINTING A 45 AT MY HEAD, CAN ASSURE YOU IT IS NOT UPSIDE DOWN.

powderburner
07-01-2006, 07:26 PM
Uh, the Simonis 860 or whatever is printed on one side of the cloth.

I wouldn't bet anything on which side the lable is, maybe a table mechanic could.

tjlmbklr
07-01-2006, 07:39 PM
I think it is wrong side up also. Tried to get a photo of some simonis scraps on my table, the left piece is the side supposed to be down and the right piece is right side up.

Here is the piece I have left. It is very obviously distinguishable between top and bottom. Don't forget the wholw reason I am questioning my cloth, is because I know what high speed cloth looks like.

tjlmbklr
07-01-2006, 07:42 PM
Uh, the Simonis 860 or whatever is printed on one side of the cloth.

I wouldn't bet anything on which side the lable is, maybe a table mechanic could.


You can see in some areas (small pieces) under the rail that the label (in white)Simonis, is there, and I know that the print is on the top side.

asiasdad
07-01-2006, 07:44 PM
I'll post pictures of a piece I kept to break off of, (ball burn) and show the difference from top and bottom. IT FOR SURE, BETTING MY LIFE ON IT, WITH A MADMAN POINTING A 45 AT MY HEAD, CAN ASSURE YOU IT IS NOT UPSIDE DOWN.

I've had the camel 860 on my table for the past 3 cloths, and your photo looks to me like the side I have touching the slate, not the balls. The only problems I've ever had with my cloth is that sometimes the dye color is different from one batch of fabric to the next, even though Simonis says this is not true, I know better, and I'm going to send them my invoices with the exact same ID# from two completely different shades of cloth.

You may want to send a leftover piece to them and see if maybe your cloth possibly flunked their QC, if you are willing to pull the trigger :eek: on the idea that your cloth is not on upside down. Perhaps if you have a bad batch of cloth Simonis would do the right thing and ship you a good set of rail/bed cloth...just a thought.

asiasdad
07-01-2006, 07:47 PM
You can see in some areas (small pieces) under the rail that the label (in white)Simonis, is there, and I know that the print is on the top side.

Ok that means the rails have the cloth on correctly, are you certain that the bed matches the rails??

tjlmbklr
07-01-2006, 07:48 PM
I've had the camel 860 on my table for the past 3 cloths, and your photo looks to me like the side I have touching the slate, not the balls. The only problems I've ever had with my cloth is that sometimes the dye color is different from one batch of fabric to the next, even though Simonis says this is not true, I know better, and I'm going to send them my invoices with the exact same ID# from two completely different shades of cloth.

You may want to send a leftover piece to them and see if maybe your cloth possibly flunked their QC, if you are willing to pull the trigger :eek: on the idea that your cloth is not on upside down. Perhaps if you have a bad batch of cloth Simonis would do the right thing and ship you a good set of rail/bed cloth...just a thought.


Thanks, that is what I am hoping for. As you can see I am very sure the cloth is on right side up. I sent a comment to Master Z's(rec room store) and linked this post and hopefully they will do something. They are a very reputible company, and I have never been steared wrong yet by them. So let's see what they do.

tjlmbklr
07-01-2006, 08:37 PM
Ok that means the rails have the cloth on correctly, are you certain that the bed matches the rails??


Absolutely!!!

mnShooter
07-01-2006, 09:31 PM
Here is the piece I have left. It is very obviously distinguishable between top and bottom. Don't forget the wholw reason I am questioning my cloth, is because I know what high speed cloth looks like.

Simonis is not high speed cloth. I think the only reason you're seeing the fuzz is because you have light shining from the sides of the table.

Kung Fu Master
07-01-2006, 10:58 PM
This cloth isn't Simonis nor is it camel. I don't know what's your intentions are by giving out the wrong details but I guess you have all kinds here. Looks like a house cloth to me. :eek: Eitherway, people do occasionally complained about the Simonis 860 not being fast enough compared to their pool hall table cloth. I personally think most pool hall uses 760 instead of 860. Anyways, your cloth looks like a Mali.

powderburner
07-02-2006, 08:14 AM
I have read that 860 was developed to give 9 ball players a slower cloth than 760. The pictures of tjlmbklr's cloth does not show the correct weave of Simonis cloth, assuming it is in fact the right playing surface.

I use a small hand vaccume with a brush fitting and get a little fuzz every time I use it, nothing like what those photos indicate.

Most bars around here use Forstmans sp? cloth, probably because it is inexpensive and lasts as long as anything else on a bar table. It can play at 860's speed if stretched hard enough, even though it is much fuzzier.

tjlmbklr
07-02-2006, 08:42 AM
This cloth isn't Simonis nor is it camel. I don't know what's your intentions are by giving out the wrong details but I guess you have all kinds here. Looks like a house cloth to me. :eek: Either way, people do occasionally complained about the Simonis 860 not being fast enough compared to their pool hall table cloth. I personally think most pool hall uses 760 instead of 860.

They actually use GT2000 at mine. And when you look close you can compare the woven structure of the cloth. but theirs is nice and smooth.

tjlmbklr
07-02-2006, 09:25 AM
Simonis is not high speed cloth. I think the only reason you're seeing the fuzz is because you have light shining from the sides of the table.

But even when you don't have the light shining on it, you notice the fuzzies(because I already know that they are there). I even tried using a quality razor in a small area to shave the fuzz off. I did this once to a pair of expensive pants I had years ago that went through the dryer too many times. Don't worry, it not only didn't hurt it, but it didn't fix it either.

branpureza
07-02-2006, 09:32 AM
Do you mean "slow nap"?



Is it because it looks ruff?



Ding ding ding, we have a winner, except it isn't grey and yes it is very bumpy, or more like fuzzy. It is "Camel" Simonis 860. Why so ruff looking, you tell me. I have been plagued with this for months now. The pictures are nothing compaired to the real thing. When the light shines through the window it has such a raised fuzziness to it, that it sickens me. It's Simonis 860 for crying out loud. I even wrote to Simonis and eventually talked to a rep on the phone. Then I sent these pictures, her response; "looks fine to me" I have only cleaned it with a brush maybe 3 times (the one the Rec. room store gave me). And let me just put this out there NO IT'S ISN'T ON UPSIDE DOWN. I since bought some "quick clean" and I keep it covered most of the time. I know for sure it plays slower then the pool hall I shoot at. I yet to call the rec. room supply store, because I am trying to get the opinion of as many people as possible.:mad: :confused:


Here is my origanal post if anyone wants to help me out.

Simonis 860 question (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=33026&highlight=simonis+fuzzies)


quick clean... i bet that's the problem. they've been using that stuff in q-masters and all the tables (also covered in simonis 860) have a napiness to them now. stick with the good ole brush... its worked for centuries.

tjlmbklr
07-02-2006, 09:33 AM
Here is a qoute right from Simois's website. Kind of explains the quality of the cloth, just the opposite of what I am experiencing.

Simonis Cloth looks and feels very different than other billiard cloth.
Simonis cloth is incredibly smooth with no felt-like fuzziness. Worsted construction means that there are no short fibers that can release from the cloth to form "pills" or fuzz-balls that have to be removed from the playfield in order to allow the ball to roll straight and true. In addition, worsted construction does not allow the cloth to wear like nappy woolen cloth which eventually develops tracks or grooves in the cloth. With Simonis, ball spin is consistent, and the roll stays straight and true on every shot.

The hallmark of Simonis cloth is its perfect accuracy and precision.
Smooth, even threads assure a consistent speed, English and cushion rebound. High wool content worsted thread construction takes ball spin more consistently and helps reduce ball burns. This precise construction provides outstanding consistency which is why Simonis has remained the choice for tournament play for generations.

Simonis cloth is so smooth and flat that you never need to overpower a shot to get the distance.

tjlmbklr
07-02-2006, 09:37 AM
quick clean... i bet that's the problem. they've been using that stuff in q-masters and all the tables (also covered in simonis 860) have a napiness to them now. stick with the good ole brush... its worked for centuries.


Sorry man I stated earlier that I stopped using the brush and started using the Quick Clean after I noticed the problem. I thought the brush was causing the issue(s)

NineBallNut
07-02-2006, 09:59 AM
contact simonis, they will stand behind it. It is not a normal situation and it does not look upside down to me.

tjlmbklr
07-02-2006, 11:11 AM
contact simonis, they will stand behind it. It is not a normal situation and it does not look upside down to me.


Thanks, you are the first to be able to tell from the pictures that it isn't upside down. I was starting to get annoyed be people thinking that. And I did contact Simonis, She (Felice) said it looked fine.

TATE
07-02-2006, 11:44 AM
Thanks, you are the first to be able to tell from the pictures that it isn't upside down. I was starting to get annoyed be people thinking that. And I did contact Simonis, She (Felice) said it looked fine.

I am baffled. My Simonis is perfectly smooth and lasts for many years. It is a finely woven material with no obvious nap.

I would consider several things.

- Is there mositure in the room? Is it possible that the material is swelling up the fibers due to excessive moisture, humidity, or mold?

- was the cloth stretched properly when installed? This stuff has to be TIGHT and evenly stretched.

- Possibly the batch was bad or was improperly stored, contaminated or exposed to chemicals or moisture before being installed.

I have heard of some solutions to this like spray starch and a hot iron, but I've never tried them.

I've had Simonis installed twice on my table. Ernesto Dominguez did my current job and it is perfect - much better than a previous installation also done by a pro.

I would contact Simonis again or the dealer/installer, talk to a manager, and at least see if they will supply you with the material.


Chris

Cuebacca
07-02-2006, 11:56 AM
Based on the pictures, what type/Brand of cloth do you think this is.

I'm going to go with... Terry Cloth? :confused:

Sorry, man, I'd be really frustrated too. You should talk to Simonis again, maybe ask for a manager, and offer to send them one of those scraps you have. The employee you talked to may have been wrong, or perhaps didn't want to deal with the hassle.

tjlmbklr
07-02-2006, 12:33 PM
I am baffled. My Simonis is perfectly smooth and lasts for many years. It is a finely woven material with no obvious nap.

I would consider several things.

- Is there mositure in the room? Is it possible that the material is swelling up the fibers due to excessive moisture, humidity, or mold?

- was the cloth stretched properly when installed? This stuff has to be TIGHT and evenly stretched.

- Possibly the batch was bad or was improperly stored, contaminated or exposed to chemicals or moisture before being installed.

I have heard of some solutions to this like spray starch and a hot iron, but I've never tried them.

I've had Simonis installed twice on my table. Ernesto Dominguez did my current job and it is perfect - much better than a previous installation also done by a pro.

I would contact Simonis again or the dealer/installer, talk to a manager, and at least see if they will supply you with the material.


Chris

I do live in south eastern WI, and it does get humid hear.I have a window unit that I run when I am playing pool, but I have talked to others (John Schmidt) from even more humid climates like FL, and they don't have any of these issues.

unknownpro
07-02-2006, 01:14 PM
I want to take a different approach to my dilemma. Based on the pictures, what type/Brand of cloth do you think this is. It is only a few months’ olds, well maybe more like 6 months or more. And I am no longer pleased with it. The reason I upgraded to this type and brand was to have a cloth more comparable to the pool hall where I shoot league. I will state my dilemma when I get some opinions from people. The pictures don't do much to show the real problem, but hopefully people will be able to see what it is that is bothering me.
Looks like different color and kind of cloth on the rails, but maybe that's just the picture. I don't notice any staple pulls on the rail. My cloth is more than 5 years old and you can still see where each staple is on all the rails because it pulls the cloth a little tighter at those spots. They should be tight enough to notice that just by looking. If it's not tight, it will be slow.

unknownpro

tjlmbklr
07-02-2006, 02:04 PM
Looks like different color and kind of cloth on the rails, but maybe that's just the picture. I don't notice any staple pulls on the rail. My cloth is more than 5 years old and you can still see where each staple is on all the rails because it pulls the cloth a little tighter at those spots. They should be tight enough to notice that just by looking. If it's not tight, it will be slow.

unknownpro


It's just the picture. I do notice when the light hits the rails/table at different angles, it appears that they are different shades. But it is just an optical illusion.

smittie1984
07-02-2006, 02:36 PM
That's very odd. Simonis shouldn't be that fuzzy. Where you there when they installed the cloth? I'm just speculating here but it almost looks like Mali Worsted. It's actually faster than simonis but after some time can get fuzzy. We have it on our shop table.

Now your rails look like Championship 21oz.

When cleaning Simonis you don't want to use a vacum. And Brush very rarely and just to get large junk up. What we do to clean Simonis is get a lint free cloth. You can find them at Auto stores. Soak it in water then squeeze as much of the water out as you can. Just to where it is barely damp and no more water is dripping out. Then clean the cloth.

tjlmbklr
07-02-2006, 04:39 PM
That's very odd. Simonis shouldn't be that fuzzy. Where you there when they installed the cloth? I'm just speculating here but it almost looks like Mali Worsted. It's actually faster than simonis but after some time can get fuzzy. We have it on our shop table.

Now your rails look like Championship 21oz.

When cleaning Simonis you don't want to use a vacum. And Brush very rarely and just to get large junk up. What we do to clean Simonis is get a lint free cloth. You can find them at Auto stores. Soak it in water then squeeze as much of the water out as you can. Just to where it is barely damp and no more water is dripping out. Then clean the cloth.

Unfortunately I was not there for the whole thing I came home when they were just putting the rails on. I did see some scraps in the waste that had the simonis label on it.

unknownpro
07-02-2006, 07:24 PM
It's just the picture. I do notice when the light hits the rails/table at different angles, it appears that they are different shades. But it is just an optical illusion.
I looked at my rails again a little while ago and I can see the pull from the staples when I look under the overhang, not along the edge like I could when it was first covered. I watched the guys from Diamond cover tables and they pull the crap out of their Simoniz. I love mine. A poolroom owner/dry cleaner told me to steam iron the cloth to put moisture back in the fibers. I use a damp cloth to wipe mine down but that may pull it looser after a while.

unknownpro