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View Full Version : Whats this Mike Sigel IPT "best-ever" crap


Oranzith
07-02-2006, 10:42 PM
Very frustrating to watch the IPT 8-ball king of the hill on TV and have him, without fail, call himself the best ever 2 or 3 times per episode - when in reality there are several that march in front of him.


And the fact that everyone in the boat buys into it. sigh. long live mike sigel as the best ever in the publics eye :mad:

ironman
07-03-2006, 12:31 AM
Very frustrating to watch the IPT 8-ball king of the hill on TV and have him, without fail, call himself the best ever 2 or 3 times per episode - when in reality there are several that march in front of him.


And the fact that everyone in the boat buys into it. sigh. long live mike sigel as the best ever in the publics eye :mad:

Who marches in front of him?

dacue
07-03-2006, 12:37 AM
I agree who? Mr. Sigel in his prime was the best pool player ever to screw a cue together!
dacue

Jimmy M.
07-03-2006, 12:39 AM
Very frustrating to watch the IPT 8-ball king of the hill on TV and have him, without fail, call himself the best ever 2 or 3 times per episode - when in reality there are several that march in front of him.


And the fact that everyone in the boat buys into it. sigh. long live mike sigel as the best ever in the publics eye :mad:

It's all part of his character. He's supposed to be "the bad guy" that everyone loves to hate. Apparently he's playing his character pretty well. :)

Hal
07-03-2006, 02:30 AM
I'm sure KT has asked him to talk a little smack. After all he is King of the Hill until someone de-throwns him.

JAM
07-03-2006, 03:56 AM
I'm sure KT has asked him to talk a little smack. After all he is King of the Hill until someone de-throwns him.

I agree that Mike Sigel is hamming it up for the cameras to promote the competitive spirit.

I'm long in the tooth compared to most who post on AzBilliards, and I've gotta say that Mike Sigel was top banana on the American pool tournament trail. If you were to review the pool media from the '70s to the '90s, Mike Sigel is on the cover of most of them.

Though Earl Strickland, Allen Hopkins, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, and Buddy Hall were right up there with Mike Sigel during this time span, you can't take it away from him that, competing in tournaments, Mike Sigel was very dominating. He seemed to excel in a tournament setting.

Of course, as Gabe Owen says, that was then and this is now! It will be interesting to see how well Mike Sigel does perform in Vegas this month. It is important to remember that Mike Sigel did retire from playing pool professionally. Thanks to the IPT, he has come out of retirement and is playing again.

In days gone by, it was a very American tournament trail, not much going on internationally. Today, it is a very international tournament trail, now that the Filipinos, of course, and the Germans have entered the fray.

We are all members of the Tribal Nation of Pool, but dag nab it, on this 4th of July holiday, I'd like to see an American player rise to the top. Can it be Johnny Archer, Dennis Hatch, or a relatively unknown American player? Who knows, but I'll be staying tuned. Win or lose, the trip is going to be very fun, and the players, for the first time in the history of the "sport," will be playing real pool, with real rules, and REAL MONEY.

JAM

PROG8R
07-03-2006, 04:24 AM
I agree that Mike Sigel is hamming it up for the cameras to promote the competitive spirit.

I'm long in the tooth compared to most who post on AzBilliards, and I've gotta say that Mike Sigel was top banana on the American pool tournament trail. If you were to review the pool media from the '70s to the '90s, Mike Sigel is on the cover of most of them.

Though Earl Strickland, Allen Hopkins, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, and Buddy Hall were right up there with Mike Sigel during this time span, you can't take it away from him that, competing in tournaments, Mike Sigel was very dominating. He seemed to excel in a tournament setting.

Of course, as Gabe Owen says, that was then and this is now! It will be interesting to see how well Mike Sigel does perform in Vegas this month. It is important to remember that Mike Sigel did retire from playing pool professionally. Thanks to the IPT, he has come out of retirement and is playing again.

In days gone by, it was a very American tournament trail, not much going on internationally. Today, it is a very international tournament trail, now that the Filipinos, of course, and the Germans have entered the fray.

We are all members of the Tribal Nation of Pool, but dag nab it, on this 4th of July holiday, I'd like to see an American player rise to the top. Can it be Johnny Archer, Dennis Hatch, or a relatively unknown American player? Who knows, but I'll be staying tuned. Win or lose, the trip is going to be very fun, and the players, for the first time in the history of the "sport," will be playing real pool, with real rules, and REAL MONEY.

JAM

These were some of the best for sure, Strickland probably has the most tourney wins and top 5's of that list, but when Mike was in his prime, they could not match him or his accomplishments. I think the problem is that when he was a pool god, most people that are competitors now were either not born yet, or they were just comming out of diapers. I think that in this era; Efren is the closest thing to the type of dominance that Mike used to have. And in 25 to 30 years when there is a whole truck load of new pros they will see Efren playing and they might react the same as people are now towards Mike (exept that Mike is a bit Mouthy (HENCE THE NICKNAME)).

PoolSleuth
07-03-2006, 04:26 AM
I'm sure KT has asked him to talk a little smack. After all he is King of the Hill until someone de-throwns him.

Its called HYPE, and HYPE sell Stuff, like the Words New, Improved, Bigger, Longer, or BEST ETC...:)

JAM
07-03-2006, 04:50 AM
These were some of the best for sure, Strickland probably has the most tourney wins and top 5's of that list, but when Mike was in his prime, they could not match him or his accomplishments.

I agree, at least as it pertains to the accomplishments on the American tournament trail. There was no international tournament trail to speak of, IMHO.

I think the problem is that when he was a pool god, most people that are competitors now were either not born yet, or they were just comming out of diapers. I think that in this era; Efren is the closest thing to the type of dominance that Mike used to have. And in 25 to 30 years when there is a whole truck load of new pros they will see Efren playing and they might react the same as people are now towards Mike...

Again, I agree. It's a time warp and sometimes a regional thingie. It's like reading some of the "Who's the Best" threads. Many of the responders state the BEST is someone from their neck of the woods, a young up-and-coming player, for example, when sometimes they have not been exposed to other newbie champions, for lack of a better term. :o

Pool faves are cyclical in nature, and they come in waves. I have no idea how good Wimpy played. I have never seen him -- [I don't think] -- in my life. However, if you were to ask someone who had seen Wimpy play when Wimpy was hitting 'em, they could fill your ear with a lot of niceties. :D

And then there's the equipment change. With the advent of pool's state-of-the-art technology, to include jump cues, break cues, Simonis cloth, Aramith balls, and the pristine tables, the playing field has changed somewhat, IMHO. It is difficult to compare Willie Mosconi's caliber of play, which occurred in his era on different equipment, to a young whipper-snapper of today who's playing on fast cloth, jumping balls like a mule, and breaking with sticks called "Sledgehammers." [I like Sledgehammers, and I'm not knocking them.] :p

Personally, some of the BEST pool I have ever experienced, up front and close, is action games. It's amazing how some of these action game players pull a shot out of their bag of tricks and execute it successfully in the heat of the battle. Tournaments can be pressure pits as well, but action games sometimes allow one to really witness the heart of a genuine champion.

Gone are the days of action players, though. Today, players are becoming tournament soldiers, hoping they will be able to showcase their skill sets in an environment which is commensurate with their God-given talent and dedication to pool.

Some champions can't hack the lifestyle and leave. This pool is a rich man's high, and without mentioning the infamous three-letter acronym, I hope it's going to change for the better. If it happens, we may all be entering the final frontier where pool will be regarded, at least here in the United States of America, as a legitimate sport.

JAM

JAM
07-03-2006, 04:57 AM
...the same as people are now towards Mike (exept that Mike is a bit Mouthy (HENCE THE NICKNAME)).

If anybody has ever had the opportunity to speak with Mike Sigel, he is kind of mouthy. I think he's actually quite intelligent, an his mind seems to be racing 100 miles an hour at all times. You can almost hear him thinking.

Somebody told me of a happening many years ago when Mike Sigel, Larry Lisciotti, and Jimmy Reid were in the same room, all three speaking to each other simultaneously in the same conversation; in unison, if you will, for an extended period of time. I wish I had a videotape of that! :D

JAM

Southpaw
07-03-2006, 05:02 AM
Lets not forget that Sigel did win 4 or 5 U.S Open 9 ball events as well as numerous straight pool events. I mean, the guy was one of the best in the world at one time, and still is no slouch! He has always had a big ego and pointing out his own abilities has always been his style. And, he was the shot choriographer for the movie "The Color of Money" just as Mosconni was for "The Hustler" .

Southpaw

PROG8R
07-03-2006, 05:13 AM
If anybody has ever had the opportunity to speak with Mike Sigel, he is kind of mouthy. I think he's actually quite intelligent, an his mind seems to be racing 100 miles an hour at all times. You can almost hear him thinking.

Somebody told me of a happening many years ago when Mike Sigel, Larry Lisciotti, and Jimmy Reid were in the same room, all three speaking to each other simultaneously in the same conversation; in unison, if you will, for an extended period of time. I wish I had a videotape of that! :D

JAM

I think that would have caused that CARSICK feeling in my gut!! I believe I might burn that tape if I had it. LOL but I can believe it. I have talked to Mike many times and I can tell you he puts a high price on his name.

Black-Balled
07-03-2006, 05:30 AM
...And the fact that everyone in the boat buys into it. sigh. long live mike sigel as the best ever in the publics eye :mad:

I don't know what boat you've been in.

Voodoo Daddy
07-03-2006, 05:51 AM
Somebody told me of a happening many years ago when Mike Sigel, Larry Lisciotti, and Jimmy Reid were in the same room, all three speaking to each other simultaneously in the same conversation; in unison, if you will, for an extended period of time. I wish I had a videotape of that! :D

JAM


If there were plants in that room. they woulda died from lack of oxygen:D !! I have a good friend that told me Larry once said "take me to the super bowl and before the start of the fourth quarter I'll have spoken to EVERYONE" ...lol

ironman
07-03-2006, 06:15 AM
Granted, it may make you sick at your stomach, but, it is working.
The man has been accused of a lot things over the years, but, being dumb, ain't one of them. Mike, Ms. Lee, and Earl have promoted themselves pretty well.

StraightPoolIU
07-03-2006, 08:15 AM
When one watches the IPT if you have half a brain you can get a sense that some of the things that Mike Sigel says about himself is tounge in cheek. For example, he'll say "Welll I'm still the best." Then they will show Mike giving a rye smile and Matt Vasgerian will say something like "That's what we thought you'd say." I mean that part of it is obviously somewhat contrived. However, as I was watching it again last night if you get past the put-on parts his commentary is actually quite insightful imo.

zeeder
07-03-2006, 10:36 AM
If there were plants in that room. they woulda died from lack of oxygen:D !! I have a good friend that told me Larry once said "take me to the super bowl and before the start of the fourth quarter I'll have spoken to EVERYONE" ...lol

Actually, the plants in the room would have thrived since "The Mouth" was putting out lots of carbon dioxide. Plants take in carbon dioxide and put out oxygen and people take in oxygen and put out carbon dioxide. Sorry, as a biochemistry student I had to put in my $.02...lol.

ScottW
07-03-2006, 10:43 AM
So does that make Mike Sigel a major cause of global warming? :D

Cane
07-03-2006, 11:02 AM
I was playing in a tourney in Memphis last weekend and talked to a IPT Player, Hall of Famer, whom I won't name. We talked about Mike and he told a joke that had everyone in tears.

He said at Earl's HOF induction, many of the players got up and gave speeches.

He said...

" I got up and said a few words, got a little choked up and shed a few tears.

Nick Varner got up, said a few words, got choked up and shed a few tears.

Jimmy Rempe got up, spoke, got choked up and shed a few tears.

Mike got up and couldn't talk about himself, so he shed a few tears..."

Later,
Bob

Voodoo Daddy
07-03-2006, 11:22 AM
Actually, the plants in the room would have thrived since "The Mouth" was putting out lots of carbon dioxide. Plants take in carbon dioxide and put out oxygen and people take in oxygen and put out carbon dioxide. Sorry, as a biochemistry student I had to put in my $.02...lol.

Someone has to study it...just remember...too much of a good things is bad for ya as well.:rolleyes:

Nostroke
07-03-2006, 11:32 AM
This email was from a friend of mine:

"In the tape, Buddy Hall said that the best 9-ball player he had ever seen, was Luther Wimpy Lassiter. He said that Wimpy had a better break and had
more run outs anyone he had ever seen in 9-ball. I thought that was a
powerful statement, coming from a guy who has been world champion in 9-ball a few times himself and has played against the modern guys such as Efren Reyes, etc.."

Is it fact or fiction that Wimpy was the best 9 ball player who ever lived? I think it borders on factual. Buddy's statement says it all, IMO.

Another question off topic though:

Now that Efren has had laser vision surgery, has anyone noticed a difference in his play?

Regards, WW


I heard Buddy say Wimpy was the best preiod, citing Wimpy's 15 Wins in Johnston City Vs 3 tops for anyone else ( i think Shorty and ???)

Cornerman
07-04-2006, 11:58 AM
Actually, the plants in the room would have thrived since "The Mouth" was putting out lots of carbon dioxide. Plants take in carbon dioxide and put out oxygen and people take in oxygen and put out carbon dioxide. Sorry, as a biochemistry student I had to put in my $.02...lol.

Photosynthesis (carbon dioxide in, net oxygen out) only happens in sunlight. For the rest of the time, green plants absolutely absorb oxygen and put out carbon dioxide in the absence of sunlight, just like animals and non-green plants.

Fred

worriedbeef
07-04-2006, 03:02 PM
lmao that's a good joke Cane! lovin it!

JG-in-KY
07-04-2006, 03:04 PM
Even though I don't think I ever pulled for Sigel, his record speaks for itself. If he made it to the finals, he was almost automatic. He played all the disciplines very well. A couple of years ago at the Derby City Classic, Jimmy Mataya was holding court during his match. He said he had just been to dinner with Sigel and mike talked so much he gave him cauliflower ear.

sjm
07-04-2006, 05:06 PM
Though Mike Sigel was undeniably one of the best players of all time, there is simply no evidence of any kind that he is one of the best players today.

He showed only marginal form in his win over Loree Jon Jones, played very ordinary pool in the IPT King of the Hill event against Reyes, and failed to finish among the top sixteen at the World Straight Pool Championships.

I was a big fan of Mike in his prime, but his day has passed, and his claim of being the man to beat today is pretty ridiculous and I seriously doubt even he believes it.

When Muhammad Ali said "I am the greatest," whether you agreed or not, you knew he believed it. With Mike, you know he doesn't believe it, and that's why it rubs so many the wrong way.

Oranzith
07-04-2006, 07:06 PM
Though Mike Sigel was undeniably one of the best players of all time, there is simply no evidence of any kind that he is one of the best players today.

He showed only marginal form in his win over Loree Jon Jones, played very ordinary pool in the IPT King of the Hill event against Reyes, and failed to finish among the top sixteen at the World Straight Pool Championships.

I was a big fan of Mike in his prime, but his day has passed, and his claim of being the man to beat today is pretty ridiculous and I seriously doubt even he believes it.

When Muhammad Ali said "I am the greatest," whether you agreed or not, you knew he believed it. With Mike, you know he doesn't believe it, and that's why it rubs so many the wrong way.



qft (quoted for truth)

sniper
07-04-2006, 10:19 PM
Though Mike Sigel was undeniably one of the best players of all time, there is simply no evidence of any kind that he is one of the best players today.

He showed only marginal form in his win over Loree Jon Jones, played very ordinary pool in the IPT King of the Hill event against Reyes, and failed to finish among the top sixteen at the World Straight Pool Championships.

I was a big fan of Mike in his prime, but his day has passed, and his claim of being the man to beat today is pretty ridiculous and I seriously doubt even he believes it.

When Muhammad Ali said "I am the greatest," whether you agreed or not, you knew he believed it. With Mike, you know he doesn't believe it, and that's why it rubs so many the wrong way.


I couldn't think of a better way to state how I feel after reading your post.:o

catscradle
07-05-2006, 03:55 AM
Photosynthesis (carbon dioxide in, net oxygen out) only happens in sunlight. For the rest of the time, green plants absolutely absorb oxygen and put out carbon dioxide in the absence of sunlight, just like animals and non-green plants.

Fred

Hmmm, I knew of course that PHOTOsynthesis only happened in the presence of sunlight, but I never realized that plants absorbed oxygen in the dark. Do you know why this is? Do they have a process which is a somewhat akin to metabolizing foods? Inquiring minds want to know.

cuechick
07-05-2006, 04:25 AM
What I find really interesting is his obvious low opinion of female players yet he set up his so called King status by beating one! Yet not one of the top females either? Instead a retired WPBA-er who was not even in the top 16 when she left the tour, though also a great player in her prime.

I think it would really have been interesting to see him play Allison or Karen. I know there are rumors Allison was offered the chance, but I find it hard to believe she would have passed on the chance for guaranteed money!

Hal
07-05-2006, 04:28 AM
Its called HYPE, and HYPE sell Stuff, like the Words New, Improved, Bigger, Longer, or BEST ETC...:)
Why thank you Mr. Obvious. I never made the connection! :D

ssirus
07-05-2006, 04:29 AM
Best ever is always a though one. Take basketball for example. MJ is said to be the greatest player ever. But if you ask the old school guys they come up with people like Wilt or Oscar. They might have been great but of the current modern era (the only one I have witnessed) MJ was the best.

If you add on top the fact that overall the level keeps getting higher in any sport (think of basketball, tennis, pool etc.) because of better (more scientific) methods and approaches, better material and people starting at a younger age (partially influenced by more money to earn thanks to improved commercial aspects) then you can make the assumption that the current overall level of pool is the highest it has ever been.

This can be evidenced by looking at the amazing amount of players that can win tournaments these days.

I would argue that the player who can perform at a high level consistently in the modern game has to be regarded the best ever. In my opinion that is efren. He not only has dominated the sport, he is also a master at the other variations of the game and billiards and snooker.

I believe that Siegel is one of the best ever as is strickland (only in 9ball though) but the best ever hype is to hype up te IPT (good idea though).

SSirus

shag_fu
07-05-2006, 05:38 AM
I was under the impression that Efren has already beaten him off the King of the Hill. He beat him this past dec or jan. cant rem which.

Matt_24
07-05-2006, 06:22 AM
This email was from a friend of mine:

"In the tape, Buddy Hall said that the best 9-ball player he had ever seen, was Luther Wimpy Lassiter. He said that Wimpy had a better break and had
more run outs anyone he had ever seen in 9-ball. I thought that was a
powerful statement, coming from a guy who has been world champion in 9-ball a few times himself and has played against the modern guys such as Efren Reyes, etc.."

Is it fact or fiction that Wimpy was the best 9 ball player who ever lived? I think it borders on factual. Buddy's statement says it all, IMO.

Another question off topic though:

Now that Efren has had laser vision surgery, has anyone noticed a difference in his play?

Regards, WW

Wimpy was considered the best 9 baller of his era, and one of the best to have ever lived....but everyone has an adversary, and I believe it was a man by the name of Harold Worst who Wimpy wanted no part of gambling at 9 ball. Harold was a money player, and said that he was going to practice for a year and win the world's championship....but he died rather abruptly and at a young age. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

cptbreak
07-12-2006, 08:54 AM
I was playing in a tourney in Memphis last weekend and talked to a IPT Player, Hall of Famer, whom I won't name. We talked about Mike and he told a joke that had everyone in tears.

He said at Earl's HOF induction, many of the players got up and gave speeches.

He said...

" I got up and said a few words, got a little choked up and shed a few tears.

Nick Varner got up, said a few words, got choked up and shed a few tears.

Jimmy Rempe got up, spoke, got choked up and shed a few tears.

Mike got up and couldn't talk about himself, so he shed a few tears..."

Later,
Bob


Mike was not at Earl's HOF induction....

Snapshot9
07-12-2006, 09:17 AM
SJM - You opinion is right on the mark!! Part of the 'act' is a Marketing
Plan, folks. So was the match with Loree Jon. Totally serious matches
beginning the IPT era would not have attracted or generated all the talk
about the IPT that has gone on. The IPT was just trying to put down
noticeable roots.

Now, that it is getting established, the 'meat' of the product is taking shape with top level competition by competitors in all stages of their playing careers in an exciting format (similiar to the WPC) with the true International flavor they want to represent.

Even the qualifiers have been exciting with all the competing ploayers, and generating much interest all over the world.

Anything that is worth its salt takes a little time. Be patient, observant,
and just enjoy the ride. Everything won't go exactly as you want, but how many things do!!! .... lol

Cane (Bob) ... That was too funny!! Nice to see ya back on here. Email me and catch me up with what you have been up to.

It goes along with my new motto for Pool, 'We breaking up with Pool' ... lol

Johnnyt
07-12-2006, 09:23 AM
Its called HYPE, and HYPE sell Stuff, like the Words New, Improved, Bigger, Longer, or BEST ETC...:)
And Don't Forget SEX. Johnnyt

Tommy-D
07-12-2006, 01:45 PM
> If you look at it from a purely statistical standpoint,Mike has a legit claim to that title. He has won 104 titles,not including the IPT win over Loree Jon. He can still be very dangerous. On the subject of Buddy Hall,when I asked him about the best 9-baller,he said Lassiter was the best he had ever seen,but by the time he got to play against him Lassiter was past his prime. He also said that as far as players he had to deal with on a regular basis,Mike was the toughest player on Earth,citing his speed out of the gate or at the beginning of a match,and how rarely he made unforced errors that cost him games. Tommy D.

satman
07-12-2006, 03:01 PM
What I find really interesting is his obvious low opinion of female players yet he set up his so called King status by beating one! Yet not one of the top females either? Instead a retired WPBA-er who was not even in the top 16 when she left the tour, though also a great player in her prime.

I think it would really have been interesting to see him play Allison or Karen. I know there are rumors Allison was offered the chance, but I find it hard to believe she would have passed on the chance for guaranteed money!
If she was offered the chance to play him for guaranteed $$$$$$$, she probably passed for the obvious reason, Didn't want to listen to him talk.

As far as Mike's record goes, Yes he has a better performance record than Earl. I watched him play in his prime, along with Earl, Buddy, Nick and a slew of others. I saw Efren play in 1985 shortly after he came here. Mike was THE dominating force at the tournaments during his prime. Personally, I don't like him. Say what you want about Earl's attitude, but if you try to talk to him away from a match, he's almost always friendly. Try to talk to Mike, if he don't know you, he acts like you have no right to even speak to him. There are very few people who rub me the wrong way, He's one of them. Sam

GCue
07-26-2006, 03:44 PM
As it has been mentioned, this idea of Mike Siegal as "Greatest of All Time" is IPT hype. He may have been the greatest for a few years in the past, but now, no way. He's still a strong player, but anybody who saw the finals, and see Reyes beat him 8 to 0 in the 1st set had to have 2nd thoughts about who is the greatest. I know everybody that's responded here must be quite young, and think billiards started sometime around the advent of color tv, but take a look at some of the sites where the history of the game and the greatest players of all time are discussed, and you're probably not going to even see Mike Sigel's name mentioned, although maybe in the future, who knows if his domination of of the best players of his day will be sufficient to give him a mention. I think even Mike himself would not say that he was better than someone such as Willie Mosconi, who would be the top pick on many pool expert's "Greatest of All Time" list. I am proud to say that, as a youngster, I saw him play in person at an exhibition in 1970 or '71.
And talking about women players - how about Jean Balukas, who many have picked as the greatest of all female players. Just a snippet that I found incredible - She started competing at something like 9 years old, won her first BCA title at 12, and took her first Womens National championship at 14!

Cornerman
07-26-2006, 04:11 PM
but take a look at some of the sites where the history of the game and the greatest players of all time are discussed, and you're probably not going to even see Mike Sigel's name mentioned, although maybe in the future, who knows if his domination of of the best players of his day will be sufficient to give him a mention. !

LOL!!!! I think you need to take a look at that "history of the game and the greatest players" list.

There aren't many pool players that wouldn't put Sigel in the their top 5 of all time, and top two of greatest living player.

Fred

DaveK
07-26-2006, 08:39 PM
.... I know everybody that's responded here must be quite young, and think billiards started sometime around the advent of color tv, but ....

Nice first post dude. :rolleyes:

Dave

PoolBum
07-26-2006, 08:48 PM
but take a look at some of the sites where the history of the game and the greatest players of all time are discussed, and you're probably not going to even see Mike Sigel's name mentioned, although maybe in the future, who knows if his domination of of the best players of his day will be sufficient to give him a mention.

Huh? Now that's funny. You must've just fallen off the turnip truck.

jay helfert
07-26-2006, 09:28 PM
This is a tough one to answer. First of all, he only recently became Mike The Mouth. During his playing days, he was Captain Hook or simply The Hook. So the new name is definately a product of the IPT hype factory.

How good was he? Damn good. Good enough to be one of the dominant players in an era with many great players. I think in the 70's and early 80's, Mike, Miz and Buddy were considered the top three players in any 9-Ball field. With Nick, Rempe and Hopkins not far behind. And pushing them were Little David, Kim, Mataya, Keith, Lebron and several others from time to time.

Then Earl came along, and he quickly became a factor in every 9-Ball event. And Efren and Parica came on the scene too, muddling the picture even more. As a money player, Sigel couldn't hold a candle to Buddy or Parica. They were the best! As a tournament player, Mike was always good, often great and many times, simply amazing.

During the 80's Pat Fleming came up the Accu-Stats scoring system, a very accurate measurement of a poolplayers skills. I read every issue from cover to cover and digested it. David had the best break, Earl ran the most racks, etc. But one statistic stood out in every issue. When it came to fewest errors (missed balls or position), Mike Sigel was the class of the field. He was nearly twice as good (half as many errors) as the next best players. No one was close to Mike in this category.

My personal observation, was that Mike was the toughest player to face in a final match. He rarely lost when he reached the finals. One time he won eleven final matches in a row (not eleven tournaments in a row). And in each final he was playing Earl, Buddy, Efren, Miz or another near great. No one really wanted to ever draw Sigel, and only Mizerak savored every opportunity to play him, whether it be 9-Ball, 14.1 or One Pocket. Steve wanted to prove he was better than this skinny kid.

Now, how would Mike rate against Wimpy. Hard to say. I will say that for the cash, Mike could not have stood up to Wimpy's relentless play. In a tournament setting, I would call it a draw. If there had been Accu-Stats when Wimpy played, it would not surprise me if he made even fewer errors than Mike. I saw him play and Wimpy just didn't miss balls. One miss a day was a only a fair day for him. He wanted to play perfect matches, with zero errors, and I suspect he had many of them. Typically in a Race To Eleven match, Wimpy might make one error total. And be quite upset about it too.

After winning matches by scores like 11-3 or 11-2, Wimpy would discuss the one ball he missed or the bad position he got in one rack. That is what he remembered.

Is Sigel the greatest? I don't know. Was he one of the greatest? Definitely!

cuetechasaurus
07-26-2006, 09:44 PM
Mike Sigel is not the best 9-ball player ever. Earl Strickland is, going by major titles alone.

Efren is the best all around player ever. Mike is definately in the top 5, but he's not the best ever IMO.

watchez
07-26-2006, 11:09 PM
Someone told me that Mike Sigel won 105 out of 117 times when he reached the finals of a tournament.

StraightPoolIU
07-27-2006, 05:48 AM
Uh oh this thread could quickly turn into a "Mike Sigel Fact" thread. Hell, I'll start. Mike Sigel won so many finals he had to quit the game because his cue was outlawed under the assault weapons ban.

ShootingArts
07-27-2006, 06:31 AM
If you listen closely they occasionally mention this is according to a magazine poll. They don't mention when it was taken either. People who respond to polls typically have a memory span that only covers the last major tournament or two. Likewise in the polls for other industries. Greatest actor? Greatest country music singer? Odds are it will be the pop flavor of the week.

Actually to set the record straight: According to a recent poll, it was unanimously decided that I am the greatest player of all time. I and my two dogs all voted for me. Of course I was holding their food at the time and it is amazing what they will agree to when lunch is on the line.

Hu

Cornerman
07-27-2006, 06:35 AM
If you listen closely they occasionally mention this is according to a magazine poll. They don't mention when it was taken either. People who respond to polls typically have a memory span that only covers the last major tournament or two.

I wonder how you came to this conclusion, given that if you actually look at the magazine poll, you'll see where Mosconi and Greenleaf still take honors at the very top.

Fred

ShootingArts
07-27-2006, 07:27 AM
(I had to put ten characters in here to post)

I wonder how you came to this conclusion, given that if you actually look at the magazine poll, you'll see where Mosconi and Greenleaf still take honors at the very top.

Fred

SUPERSTAR
07-27-2006, 08:38 AM
Actually, the plants in the room would have thrived since "The Mouth" was putting out lots of carbon dioxide. Plants take in carbon dioxide and put out oxygen and people take in oxygen and put out carbon dioxide. Sorry, as a biochemistry student I had to put in my $.02...lol.

But, since he's blasting out TONS of CO2, the plants are probably producing tons of O2 as a result.
Now we all need oxygen to survive, but TOO MUCH oxygen is toxic and can kill you, so someone needs to shut Mike Sigels mouth before we all die!

On another note, maybe all that CO2 is a part of his strategy when playing people. By blasting out so much CO2, he might be trying to suffocate his opponents or render then unconscious.

Banker Burt
07-29-2006, 11:18 PM
As I see it the issue is Mike has been talking smack, he is playing on the IPT, and the two don't go together.

I say this because the first IPT full field event is near completion and Mike is out. Didn't even come close to threating this field. If KT's intention for the "Mouth" was strictly marketing then I am very interested to hear more...

On the other hand I think if Mike digs really deep into his history of great play, and is not blindsided by the money he has made this year, it would be great for the IPT and the "Mouth" marketing strategy.

It would also be awesome to see Mike play the way he can. He could take a tip from another sport legend George Forman. George did not talk about how he was the greatest on his comeback trail, but how hard he was working to beat the odds.

GCue
07-30-2006, 08:06 AM
In reference to "Cornerman's" and "Pool Bum's" comments to my original post: I would be interested in seeing if you could actually find and list a site written by billiards authorities on the history of billiards or the greatest players of all time that listed Mr. Sigel. I do believe, and wrote that he probably did dominate the game for a period of time, and certainly was a great player. The problem is that you are forgetting, or don't know, that billiards has been around a whole lot longer than just the last 25 years, and there's been a number of great players. I liken this to someone, such as a teenager, who when discussing baseball, knows only of the players of the last couple decades, and nothing of the great players of the past, and might argue that Barry Bonds, or some current player is the greatest player of all time, not knowing of players like Ty Cobb, Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth, Joe Dimaggio, etc.