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Musashi
07-04-2006, 10:49 PM
Hello All,
I am looking for overall opinions on the cues and the customer. I had an experience placing my order...:)

bruin70
07-04-2006, 11:07 PM
i like the consistancy of hit that SW cues deliver. you will rarely find a bad one. however, i have had less than expected quality issues with them on two cues in the past 4 years. given a choice, i would opt for an old omega dpk. i think they had a purer hit.

btw, unless your aka is a play on words,,,,it's "musashi", not mushashi. :)

bells
07-05-2006, 09:58 AM
Hello All,
I am looking for overall opinions on the cues and the customer. I had an experience placing my order...:)



I think SW cues are to much hipe about nothing. They play ok, nothing super special in my book. I have hit with alot of them as well. Different wood combinations rings here and not there. They still hit the same too me...... I will say i have never hit with one that did not have any points. From a collectors point of view they may be worth whatever people are asking of them today, because the prices just seem to be going up and up on those cues and people pay it. I could understand paying that much for cues that Jerry Franklin built. The cues built after his passing i just dont think are worth it.

whiteoak
07-05-2006, 10:07 AM
If you dont mind my asking,what kind of experience transpired while ordering?M.Sellers

Musashi
07-05-2006, 10:33 AM
I just finalized my two cue order with SouthWest. I placed my original order in 04-98. I am having two six point cues made, one with Macassar ebony points and and the other with Cocobolo points.
During the order process I was hurried through my order. I asked Laurie when my cues would be ready and she said did not know. I made the comment that I was just looking for a ETA. I live pay check to pay check so dropping 3000.00 takes quite a bit of effort. Customer Service is critical to most businesses. I find SW's lacking...

tedkaufman
07-05-2006, 11:03 AM
I have two Franklin era SW cues, 1987 and 1992. Both play sensationally and both have a hit unique to SW, though slightly different. There really is nothing like them, including DPK/Omega. There is a reason the used SW prices keep going up and the waiting list for new continues to increase.

Lori gets pretty harried since it is a small but busy shop. If you felt your order was rushed, call her back. You may have caught her at the wrong time on a bad day. I've known Lori for almost 20 years and I can count on one hand the number of people I've known as sweet as her and with her integrity and sincerity.

As for the construction quality of the old verses new, there is no difference. Anyone who says there is a difference is talking out his ass. Why? The same guy (Jerry's nephew, Mike) is making the cues as when Jerry was alive. This same guy worked with Kersenbrock *before* Jerry did. When Jerry started SW, Mike came to work for him and has been there ever since. Mike knows his stuff inside out. Lori continues to buy and store the wood, same as always. The shop is the same. The methods, procedures and techniques are the same. The interval of wood storage is unchanged. If anything, the newer cues are slightly better because improvements in glues and clamping have afforded tighter seams, something we noted when comparing my 1987 cue to new models when I was at the shop in January this year.

You want the best playing cue available? Then suffer the cost, or the wait, or both, for a SW. It will be worth it.

Fuji-whopper
07-05-2006, 11:48 AM
Now that's a pool player: lives paycheck to paycheck but spends $3k on cues.

I have a feeling that your paychecks are pretty large, you can't go wrong with a Southwest. Even if you don't like it there are plenty of people that do and will pay good money for them.

whiteoak
07-05-2006, 12:01 PM
I have two Franklin era SW cues, 1987 and 1992. Both play sensationally and both have a hit unique to SW, though slightly different. There really is nothing like them, including DPK/Omega. There is a reason the used SW prices keep going up and the waiting list for new continues to increase.

Lori gets pretty harried since it is a small but busy shop. If you felt your order was rushed, call her back. You may have caught her at the wrong time on a bad day. I've known Lori for almost 20 years and I can count on one hand the number of people I've known as sweet as her and with her integrity and sincerity.

As for the construction quality of the old verses new, there is no difference. Anyone who says there is a difference is talking out his ass. Why? The same guy (Jerry's nephew, Mike) is making the cues as when Jerry was alive. This same guy worked with Kersenbrock *before* Jerry did. When Jerry started SW, Mike came to work for him and has been there ever since. Mike knows his stuff inside out. Lori continues to buy and store the wood, same as always. The shop is the same. The methods, procedures and techniques are the same. The interval of wood storage is unchanged. If anything, the newer cues are slightly better because improvements in glues and clamping have afforded tighter seams, something we noted when comparing my 1987 cue to new models when I was at the shop in January this year.

You want the best playing cue available? Then suffer the cost, or the wait, or both, for a SW. It will be worth it.
I agree with Ted here.My son has played with SW cues for several years and the times i have called the staff and Mrs.Franklin couldnt have been any nicer.Thanks,M.Sellers

Deadon
07-05-2006, 12:03 PM
I have two Franklin era SW cues, 1987 and 1992. Both play sensationally and both have a hit unique to SW, though slightly different. There really is nothing like them, including DPK/Omega. There is a reason the used SW prices keep going up and the waiting list for new continues to increase.

Lori gets pretty harried since it is a small but busy shop. If you felt your order was rushed, call her back. You may have caught her at the wrong time on a bad day. I've known Lori for almost 20 years and I can count on one hand the number of people I've known as sweet as her and with her integrity and sincerity.

As for the construction quality of the old verses new, there is no difference. Anyone who says there is a difference is talking out his ass. Why? The same guy (Jerry's nephew, Mike) is making the cues as when Jerry was alive. This same guy worked with Kersenbrock *before* Jerry did. When Jerry started SW, Mike came to work for him and has been there ever since. Mike knows his stuff inside out. Lori continues to buy and store the wood, same as always. The shop is the same. The methods, procedures and techniques are the same. The interval of wood storage is unchanged. If anything, the newer cues are slightly better because improvements in glues and clamping have afforded tighter seams, something we noted when comparing my 1987 cue to new models when I was at the shop in January this year.

You want the best playing cue available? Then suffer the cost, or the wait, or both, for a SW. It will be worth it.


And, word is, Mike has some health issues and isn't making any cues. They are looking for help. That may be why Laurie acted the way she did.

dacue
07-05-2006, 12:05 PM
OVERRATED! SW cues are not worth the wait (8 years I hear?) or the money. How many professonal pool player use a SW cue. I bet very few to none! They really do not play that great, very stiff. You can buy (ORDER) a Andy Gilbert cue wait 6 months and have about same hit?
dacue

Birk1
07-05-2006, 12:32 PM
Gilberts do not play like Southwest....not even CLOSE. I have owned many gilberts, been up to Frazier Missouri to pick 'em out of the shop myself. I have been playing with my Southwest (ebony, no pointer) for the better part of 10years and there is not other cue like it on the market for cueball feel and resonance - I have looked. I've owned alot of different types of cues....mottey, zylr, gilbert, bluds, etc... the only other cue that I have found that plays similar to a southwest is my Bert Schrager.

Get one, you will not regret it - try to find one with a non-maple forearm. I find the exotics have a little firmer hit.

good luck

tedkaufman
07-05-2006, 12:39 PM
OVERRATED! SW cues are not worth the wait (8 years I hear?) or the money. How many professonal pool player use a SW cue. I bet very few to none! They really do not play that great, very stiff. You can buy (ORDER) a Andy Gilbert cue wait 6 months and have about same hit?
dacue

And you can buy a Honda Accord and it will be just as good as a BMW 330i. Sure ...

I'm sure Gilberts are good cue, just as Accords are good cars. But there is a reason why the waiting list for SW is approaching 8 (yes 8!) and Gilbert's is 6 months.

bells
07-05-2006, 02:27 PM
And you can buy a Honda Accord and it will be just as good as a BMW 330i. Sure ...

I'm sure Gilberts are good cue, just as Accords are good cars. But there is a reason why the waiting list for SW is approaching 8 (yes 8!) and Gilbert's is 6 months.
The reason is that SW cues have alot more hype about them.Gilbert cues do hit differently than SW, that is a good thing. I love the way the Gilbert cues that i have owned have played. Cuemakers love guys like you that really lose focus on what the purpose of the cue is. If i was going to use cars to equate cues in a anaology representing the social pecking order of cuemakers, I certainly wouldnt use BMW to represent SW cues. SW cues are more like a recent Thunderbird........lol alot of hype over nothing.BMW/mercedes are the Ginacues,Szambotis, Tad ,Mottey and on and on and on.............................Concentrate on what your doing with the cue and not the color of the veneers or how long the waiting list is for your cue that your playing with. ....................Rack em

ShaneS
07-05-2006, 03:45 PM
And you can buy a Honda Accord and it will be just as good as a BMW 330i. Sure ...

I'm sure Gilberts are good cue, just as Accords are good cars. But there is a reason why the waiting list for SW is approaching 8 (yes 8!) and Gilbert's is 6 months.

I totally agree. However, a really good friend of Laurie's told me that they are two years behind; yes, expect to wait approx. 10 years now.:o :o :o

Well worth the wait though.

I think the market tells all; you know a cue is valuable when it sells on the secondary market for 150% to 200% of the factory price. How can one argue against that?

-Shane

Ken_4fun
07-05-2006, 04:45 PM
I have a JF era Southwest as well. It plays very well. In my opinion, my GINA plays better.

Its kinda like the guy that owns a chevy will tell everyone that the Chevy is the best and Fords suck.

IMO, Southwests all look the same.

The wait is bullshit. If they took a deposit (LIKE ALL OTHERS) the wait might be a year.

Its kinda like the Studio 54 deal, tell them that there is an 8 year wait, and that means they are the best cues.

There are alot of great playing cues out there. Southwest is just one of them.

Ken

tedkaufman
07-05-2006, 08:42 PM
The reason is that SW cues have alot more hype about them.Gilbert cues do hit differently than SW, that is a good thing. I love the way the Gilbert cues that i have owned have played. Cuemakers love guys like you that really lose focus on what the purpose of the cue is. If i was going to use cars to equate cues in a anaology representing the social pecking order of cuemakers, I certainly wouldnt use BMW to represent SW cues. SW cues are more like a recent Thunderbird........lol alot of hype over nothing.BMW/mercedes are the Ginacues,Szambotis, Tad ,Mottey and on and on and on.............................Concentrate on what your doing with the cue and not the color of the veneers or how long the waiting list is for your cue that your playing with. ....................Rack em

Well, you obviously know nothing about how SW cues play, so there's not much to talk about, is there? Stick with Gilberts. You'll be happy.

jjinfla
07-06-2006, 05:17 AM
I picked up a 1993 Southwest over a year ago with two shafts. One shaft is 13mm while the other is 14mm. Is this common with SW or just the way the order was placed?

bells
07-06-2006, 09:26 AM
Well, you obviously know nothing about how SW cues play, so there's not much to talk about, is there? Stick with Gilberts. You'll be happy.
I have hit with them. For me i didnt really like how they played. I liked the hit of the cue however.They play ok in my book. Alot of people sell SW cues after they recieve them because they know they can make a huge profit because there is so much hype about SW cues. Think about how many cues you see frequently for sale. Of the higher end cuemakers you see alot of Sw cues come up for sale. Why are they for sale ? Because people can make a huge profit by reselling those cues.

Qjunkie
07-06-2006, 10:50 AM
It was back in 2001 and I went to place my order for a cue.Laurie and the folks at SW showed great hospitality. Laurie gave me a shop tour. She took my order and gave feedback on what wood and color combo I wanted in my cue. All in all a great experience. As for as the hit, IMO the older micarta ferrules hit better that the ferrules they use now.

As far as the hype, I think the hype is over. Used SWs arent moving fast enough to make me think the hype is still there.

Flex
07-06-2006, 11:07 AM
I totally agree. However, a really good friend of Laurie's told me that they are two years behind; yes, expect to wait approx. 10 years now.:o :o :o

Well worth the wait though.

I think the market tells all; you know a cue is valuable when it sells on the secondary market for 150% to 200% of the factory price. How can one argue against that?

-Shane

The market is always right? Depends on the time frame... remember the DotCom revolution? Then the bubble burst...

Y'all oughta hit with some Ed Young cues.

Flex

Musashi
07-06-2006, 12:20 PM
Hello All,
Based on your responses I am going to change my order, if I can. My original order consisted of two birdseye maple 6 point cues one with Macassar points and the other with Cocobolo. Anyone have an opinion on an alternate forearm wood? Pau Ferro? Goncalo Alves?

Musashi
07-06-2006, 12:22 PM
Bruin,
Thank you for helping me with my spelling problem.

TommyT
07-06-2006, 12:27 PM
The wait is bullshit. If they took a deposit (LIKE ALL OTHERS) the wait might be a year.

I agree. Also if they limited each person to one cue the wait would be half of what it is now. Most people order 2 cues and sell one to help pay for the first.
TommyT:mad:

pharaoh68
07-06-2006, 12:36 PM
The reason is that SW cues have alot more hype about them.Gilbert cues do hit differently than SW, that is a good thing. I love the way the Gilbert cues that i have owned have played. Cuemakers love guys like you that really lose focus on what the purpose of the cue is. If i was going to use cars to equate cues in a anaology representing the social pecking order of cuemakers, I certainly wouldnt use BMW to represent SW cues. SW cues are more like a recent Thunderbird........lol alot of hype over nothing.BMW/mercedes are the Ginacues,Szambotis, Tad ,Mottey and on and on and on.............................Concentrate on what your doing with the cue and not the color of the veneers or how long the waiting list is for your cue that your playing with. ....................Rack em

Car analogies, huh? Ok.

Gilbert is to Southwest as Scion is to BMW. (Yes! BMW!)

Actually, if you want to liken SW to any vehicle, you'd be better off comparing it to a Hummer. You see, Hummer's are ugly and unattractive but yet, there is a certain beauty that coincides with that ugliness. Perhaps it is the mystique of driving a Hummer. Who knows? But Hummer's, despite not being the most beautiful looking cars, can rool over anything and outperform any other SUV on the road.

Southwests are similar. They are simple six-pointers and, turth be told their point work and ring work is ok. Its not great. Its good. But, it doesn't matter. It has a style uniquely its own. And it plays better than just about any other cue out there.

Gilbert makes a decent cue but, to be honest, after ownign Gilberts and playing with others, I still do not see what all the hype is about. He is a good new cuemaker. But he has a long-ways to go. JMO.

Qjunkie
07-06-2006, 12:48 PM
Hello All,
Based on your responses I am going to change my order, if I can. My original order consisted of two birdseye maple 6 point cues one with Macassar points and the other with Cocobolo. Anyone have an opinion on an alternate forearm wood? Pau Ferro? Goncalo Alves?


The 2 cues you ordered practically look the same. unless you have different color veneers on em. The cue I ordered will have a Goncalo Alves forearm. I'll probally change it again when my number comes up some time in 2010 :mad:

Oh btw I have an email from Laurie back in Jan stating their just finishing 1997 orders:eek:

bells
07-06-2006, 08:20 PM
Car analogies, huh? Ok.

Gilbert is to Southwest as Scion is to BMW. (Yes! BMW!)

Actually, if you want to liken SW to any vehicle, you'd be better off comparing it to a Hummer. You see, Hummer's are ugly and unattractive but yet, there is a certain beauty that coincides with that ugliness. Perhaps it is the mystique of driving a Hummer. Who knows? But Hummer's, despite not being the most beautiful looking cars, can rool over anything and outperform any other SUV on the road.

Southwests are similar. They are simple six-pointers and, turth be told their point work and ring work is ok. Its not great. Its good. But, it doesn't matter. It has a style uniquely its own. And it plays better than just about any other cue out there.
I only used car anaogly to humor tedkaufman lol............................. Please read his previous post i got a kick out of them.

Gilbert makes a decent cue but, to be honest, after ownign Gilberts and playing with others, I still do not see what all the hype is about. He is a good new cuemaker. But he has a long-ways to go. JMO.
I only used car anaogly to humor tedkaufman lol............................. Please read his previous post i got a kick out of them.

Varney Cues
07-07-2006, 01:04 AM
Y'all oughta hit with some Ed Young cues.

Flex[/QUOTE]


Very true indeed.

ShaneS
07-07-2006, 02:18 PM
The market is always right? Depends on the time frame... remember the DotCom revolution? Then the bubble burst...

Y'all oughta hit with some Ed Young cues.

Flex

To say that SouthWest cues are facing an economic bubble is irrational. There is a difference between a bubble and bull market. However, the only way to differentiate the two comes in hindsight. So, until SouthWests are actually selling on the secondary market for less than factory price, I wouldn't be so sure about a bubble. Plus, most bubbles are created and perpetuated through speculation; I think most people buying SouthWests pretty much know what they are buying into.

I do agree with you that it depends on a time frame. But, the dotcom 'revolution' was indeed a revolution; basically, only a very few people fully understood the technology and possiblities of these dotcom companies.

On a side note, I think SouthWest should be commended: They keep their prices relatively low compared to some cuemakers. Since everyone is so caught up in comparing Souths and Gilberts, how much does Gilbert charge for a 6 point w/ 3 veneers and two shafts? South only charges $1600.00-- a steal in my humble opinion.:eek:

ShaneS

PoolSleuth
07-07-2006, 05:57 PM
I have NEVER Hit with a SouthWest, or have seen a SouthWest, but understand they have a CULT like following. If I was a Smart Man, I would have ordered a SouthWest ever other month about 7 years ago, for the last 3 years or so, and made a SMALL profit when I resold em.

gforces1911
07-07-2006, 06:43 PM
The market is always right? Depends on the time frame... remember the DotCom revolution? Then the bubble burst...

Y'all oughta hit with some Ed Young cues.

Flex


I got an Ed Young from Jazz (good person) and I am very happy with the way the cue plays. Their absence from the used marketplace speaks loudly in my book now. I would almost consider getting on his list- but for the fear of having to decide which cue to use. A very good cuemaker who is flying under the radar.

Flex
07-08-2006, 02:45 AM
To say that SouthWest cues are facing an economic bubble is irrational. There is a difference between a bubble and bull market. However, the only way to differentiate the two comes in hindsight. So, until SouthWests are actually selling on the secondary market for less than factory price, I wouldn't be so sure about a bubble. Plus, most bubbles are created and perpetuated through speculation; I think most people buying SouthWests pretty much know what they are buying into.

I do agree with you that it depends on a time frame. But, the dotcom 'revolution' was indeed a revolution; basically, only a very few people fully understood the technology and possiblities of these dotcom companies.

On a side note, I think SouthWest should be commended: They keep their prices relatively low compared to some cuemakers. Since everyone is so caught up in comparing Souths and Gilberts, how much does Gilbert charge for a 6 point w/ 3 veneers and two shafts? South only charges $1600.00-- a steal in my humble opinion.:eek:

ShaneS

I doubt SW is facing a bubble; my comments about market prices were only to show that markets can be irrational. Buying a SW cue is a highly rational decision, and obviously makes sense, at least for some people. Does that mean the prices they go for are warranted? I'm sure they are for those who lay down their cash to get them. To others, perhaps not.

Flex

ShaneS
07-08-2006, 03:04 AM
I doubt SW is facing a bubble; my comments about market prices were only to show that markets can be irrational. Buying a SW cue is a highly rational decision, and obviously makes sense, at least for some people. Does that mean the prices they go for are warranted? I'm sure they are for those who lay down their cash to get them. To others, perhaps not.

Flex

I hear you.

You wouldn't by chance have an extra Ed Young you would be willing to sell, would you? I've always wanted to give one a try but have never really seen them available.

-Shane

pooldogue
07-08-2006, 04:06 AM
Southwests are just another custom cue with a "hype" about them therefore they are commanding a waiting list and "retarded" pricing !!!!!!!!
I have owned 6 different Sw. cues and they all played different as they should using different woods.. Are they a good investment ,probably because you can always find someone wiling to pay "stupid" money for it, and as for the "hit" i cant answer that as everyone likes a different hit and feel................. I M O :)
I have also seen quite a few Southwests having a warp in the wrap area both in cues i wanted to buy and also cues a good friend has had (and he has had alot) so like every custom cue they have problems also , for some reason people put them on some high pedestal................:)

tedkaufman
07-08-2006, 09:06 AM
Southwests are just another custom cue with a "hype" about them therefore they are commanding a waiting list and "retarded" pricing !!!!!!!!
I have owned 6 different Sw. cues and they all played different as they should using different woods.. Are they a good investment ,probably because you can always find someone wiling to pay "stupid" money for it, and as for the "hit" i cant answer that as everyone likes a different hit and feel................. I M O :)
I have also seen quite a few Southwests having a warp in the wrap area both in cues i wanted to buy and also cues a good friend has had (and he has had alot) so like every custom cue they have problems also , for some reason people put them on some high pedestal................:)

I can't imagine buying six different samples of anything I wasn't very impressed with, particularly if I had to pay "stupid" money for them. I guess we all have our own ways of reasoning.

As for warps with SW cues, I suppose any cue can warp if the owner insists on keeping it in a car trunk subjected to extremes of heat and cold. My experience with my two very well kept SW cues is both spin perfectly true on a lathe, and one is twenty years old and the other fourteen. I also know there is no cuemaker who takes more care and more steps with more time between turnings than SW. My guess is, if one of their cues warps, it's because of mishandling by the owner.

Flex
07-08-2006, 09:30 AM
I hear you.

You wouldn't by chance have an extra Ed Young you would be willing to sell, would you? I've always wanted to give one a try but have never really seen them available.

-Shane

Sure don't have one for sale. They're not that easy to come by. They're often seen in certain Chicago pool rooms, though I've never seen one for sale. Have no idea what the wait time is to have one made.

Flex

onepocketchump
07-08-2006, 10:48 AM
To say that SouthWest cues are facing an economic bubble is irrational. There is a difference between a bubble and bull market. However, the only way to differentiate the two comes in hindsight. So, until SouthWests are actually selling on the secondary market for less than factory price, I wouldn't be so sure about a bubble. Plus, most bubbles are created and perpetuated through speculation; I think most people buying SouthWests pretty much know what they are buying into.

I do agree with you that it depends on a time frame. But, the dotcom 'revolution' was indeed a revolution; basically, only a very few people fully understood the technology and possiblities of these dotcom companies.

On a side note, I think SouthWest should be commended: They keep their prices relatively low compared to some cuemakers. Since everyone is so caught up in comparing Souths and Gilberts, how much does Gilbert charge for a 6 point w/ 3 veneers and two shafts? South only charges $1600.00-- a steal in my humble opinion.:eek:

ShaneS

SouthWest provides a nearly perfect cue for a fair price. They have earned a reputation for quality and value. They aren't heading for a bubble anytime soon.

A bubble would be the Japanese appetite for cues which allowed some unknown and unproven cuemakers to start selling their cues for far more than they were "worth" and generally drove the prices of custom cues to unreasonable heights. When the market softened in Japan a lot of cuemakers were left wondering what happened now that they were priced out of the American market.

SouthWest has JOB SECURITY. As long as they continue to do what they do best without comprimise then they are set.

Are their other cumakers whose products are as solid as SouthWest. You bet there are. Are they as consistent with respect to quality and delivery? Not many are. Do they command a premium over the shop retail? Not many do. Do they hold their value on the secondary market? Not many.

I have never had a problem moving a SouthWest. EVER. I can name a dozen other top quality cuemakers whose secondary market value varies all over the board for a variety of reasons. No names because I don't want to get into a debate about the merits of each one. You collectors and cue dealers know what I mean though. There are a few cuemakers whose stuff holds value no matter where you go and everyone else's fluctuates.

John

pooldogue
07-08-2006, 11:05 AM
[QUOTE=tedkaufman]I can't imagine buying six different samples of anything I wasn't very impressed with, particularly if I had to pay "stupid" money for them. I guess we all have our own ways of reasoning.

Well, after the 2nd the ONLY reason i bought them was i bought low and sold high, which is the only reason i purchase them to date although if i find one i like to play with i surely will do just that !!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel that there are other makers that have "way" less of a wait time and command far "less" money to buy........:)