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View Full Version : Name your TOP 5 IPT Las Vegas players. Who's your dark horse?


f210
07-06-2006, 06:06 PM
Only about 2 weeks to go before the much awaited IPT Las Vegas tournament. Who do you think will be in the top 5? Who's your dark horse?

mnorwood
07-06-2006, 06:12 PM
Charlie Bryant
Danny Basavich
John Schmidt
Scotty Townsend
Goerge Breedlove

No particular order.

TannerPruess
07-06-2006, 06:16 PM
Reyes
Orcullo
Manalo
Bustamante
Archer

My dark horses are Edwin Montal, Shane VanBoening, and David Matlock. All are amazing 8ball barbox players.

jsp
07-06-2006, 06:18 PM
Since there will be 6 players in the final round robin, I'm going to name my final 6 instead of 5.

Final Round Robin:
Orcullo
Pagulayan
Reyes
Manalo
Lining
Souquet

Finals:
Orcullo
Pagulayan

Winner:
Pagulayan

Dark Horse:
Edwin Montal

time_is_now
07-06-2006, 07:00 PM
Since there will be 6 players in the final round robin, I'm going to name my final 6 instead of 5.

Final Round Robin:
Orcullo
Pagulayan
Reyes
Manalo
Lining
Souquet

Finals:
Orcullo
Pagulayan

Winner:
Pagulayan

Dark Horse:
Edwin Montal
is azbilliards going to bring back virtual cash>??? also where can one bet on this tourney at??? i like Shane

TannerPruess
07-06-2006, 07:02 PM
I don't think v-cash will be coming back. You can bet on the results with me. ;)

Hal
07-06-2006, 07:47 PM
Charlie Bryant
Danny Basavich
John Schmidt
Scotty Townsend
Goerge Breedlove

No particular order.
Holy crap. No Manalo??

Dave Mackay
07-06-2006, 07:57 PM
I think there might be a surprise in store for some Big name players, watch out for DAZ APPLETON from the uk he is no eightball slouch!!!!! he won the grandmasters at bca and is a top uk 8ball player and also a dam good 9ball player reaching a eurotour final when he never seems to play the game!!!!

sjm
07-06-2006, 08:10 PM
My top five
Reyes
Manalo
Hohmann
Souquet
Archer

My dark horses
Engert
Varner
Deuel
Foldes
Robles

satman
07-06-2006, 08:13 PM
Manalo
Reyes
Souquet
Orcullo
Breedlove
and 2 dark horses --- Brian Groce and Troy Frank

Best of luck to Tammie Jones, I think she may surprise a few people.

blakjak121
07-06-2006, 08:58 PM
Archer
Reyes
Bustamante
Deuel
Manalo


Dark Horses:
Cliff Joyner
Tony Robles
Stevie Moore

mnorwood
07-06-2006, 09:05 PM
Holy crap. No Manalo??
I have Manalo as a odds on favorite. I was listing dark horses that no one really expects to win.

My favorites are:

Reyes
Manalo
Pagulayen
Bustamante
Orcola

Yeah that's right all five of my picks are phillipino. It would be hard to bet against any of these guys. My other picks are dark horses, they have the ability to win but the conventional wisdom says they will not.

juegabillar
07-06-2006, 09:11 PM
Only about 2 weeks to go before the much awaited IPT Las Vegas tournament. Who do you think will be in the top 5? Who's your dark horse?

Orcollo
Manalo
Reyes
Raj Hundal
David Alcaide - Spain

Dark Horses: Aaron Franken - Aruba
& Robb Saez

billiardspro
07-06-2006, 09:20 PM
dark horse how about LARRY NEVEL hes got one of the biggest breaks in the game

Eieio59
07-06-2006, 10:38 PM
Manalo
Reyes
Souquet
Orcullo
Breedlove
and 2 dark horses --- Brian Groce and Troy Frank

Best of luck to Tammie Jones, I think she may surprise a few people.
THANKS SATMAN! I'm getting excited now.......

Now, for my top picks...

MANALO! (I was a believer very early in the KOH :eek: )
REYES (may need a few magic tricks, but he has em)
BUSTA (this dog can hunt any type of animal!)
Richard Broumpton (the British are coming! and there are many of them!)
George Breedlove (may seem sentimental, but his strong focus will show)
Mark Tadd (terribly frightening that he can come back after a long absence and compete, but I'm a believer)

Top Woman Finisher: ME! :D (Well, I might consider Karen and Allison......)

Country with the most "unrecognized" *STARS* in this tournament: Great Britain! These guys play the game well and - although they may not do it in the first event or two - I think they will rise to the top.

My next five: Appleton, Daulton, Matlock, Groce, Souquet.

Oh heck, I'm gonna go watch some more of the Accustats 8-ball tapes!;)

Tammie Jones

rackmsuckr
07-07-2006, 12:12 AM
My picks:

Orcullo
Manalo
Efren
Bustamante
Pagulayan
Souquet
____________

Dark Horses:

Mike Vidas
Mike Zimmerman :D
Edwin Montal
Mark Tadd
Jason Miller
Vilmos Foldes

memikey
07-07-2006, 12:33 AM
I have Manalo as a odds on favorite......

:eek: :eek: :eek:
An odds on favourite !!!! You miser !!!! One of the only things that can be absolutely stonewall guaranteed certain as regards The IPT Tour is that the opening betting market will have no odds on favourite or anything even remotely approaching an odds on favourite !!!!
:p :p

I know you didn't really mean that literally but since the subject comes up..........if we're talking about The NA Open,the shortest priced runner when the odds are eventually drawn up (which I imagine would not be finalised or fully refined until after the Group draws are made) will hopefully be an absolute rock bottom minimum of 12/1 and possibly significantly higher.This is a 200 runner field and even the most critical of some of the lesser lights on the runner list would have to agree that there at least 60 runners who could realistically win it,possibly a lot more.

If we are talking the betting market to finish top of the money list at the end of the four 2006 tour money list events the shortest priced runner will of course be slightly lower odds but will hopefully still be a minimum of 6/1 and possibly considerably higher.

Looking forward to an interesting betting market:D

thecardman
07-07-2006, 01:22 AM
My picks for the final group phase are (and this is considering that the draw works in favour of this happening!):-

Efren Reyes
Darren Appleton
Pat Holtz
Marlon Manalo
Thorsten Hohmann
Mika Immonen

My "Dark Horses" are, very simply the rest of the UK 8-Ball players that are in the IPT! Simple as that! They are used to playing 8-Ball day in, day out, and are likely to cause, what some would consider, big upsets.

I look forward with interest to the Vegas tournament - oh, and the live coverage we're getting here in Europe thanks to Eurosport!

huckster
07-07-2006, 03:01 AM
Manalo
Reyes
Souquet
Orcullo
Breedlove
and 2 dark horses --- Brian Groce and Troy Frank

Best of luck to Tammie Jones, I think she may surprise a few people.

Satman,
Good choice of Troy Frank for a dark horse playing 8ball. That is by far his best game.

GADawg
07-07-2006, 03:10 AM
It is very strange in this thread that no one has mentioned the Best Player in the World, Mike Sigel.

If you don't believe it, just ask him

jjinfla
07-07-2006, 03:27 AM
It all depends on the draw. But I have to go with Reyes, Bustamante, Manalo for sure. Then I will go with Sigel and Strickland.

But of course there probably are at least 50 other players that can be right up there. It won't be as easy as the KOTH was for these guys. This will be a longer, harder competition. And you will have the creme de la creme of the pool world competing against each other.

Jake

Icon of Sin
07-07-2006, 04:11 AM
Top Five:

Bustamante
Reyes
Deuel
Pagulayan
Manalo

Finals:

Pagulayan vs. Manalo

Dark Horse: Breedlove

StevenPWaldon
07-07-2006, 05:36 AM
I'll throw in my two cents:

Top 5:

Efren Reyes
Francisco Bustamante
Thorsten Hohmann
Marlon Manalo
Johnny Archer

Dark Horses

Max Eberle
Mike Sigel
Tony Robles

mjantti
07-07-2006, 05:37 AM
Immonen
Busta
Efren
Deuel
Manalo

No dark horses this time... :o

daytonajoe
07-07-2006, 05:38 AM
I must agree on Troy frank as a darkhorse that I would like to see as well as Shane the Kid... both are 8 ball Machines

jsp
07-07-2006, 06:22 AM
Charlie Bryant
Danny Basavich
John Schmidt
Scotty Townsend
Goerge Breedlove

No particular order.
I was listing dark horses that no one really expects to win.

LOL. Thanks for the clarification. At first I thought either you had something against the Filipinos, or you were being utterly patriotic. :D

Oh just a side note. This type of tournament format is unprecedented, considering the players in the final round robin would have been playing 4-5 straight 12-hour days! That's why I chose the young guns Orcullo and Pagulayan in the finals. I just think Efren's age will catch up with him in the final round robin. Manalo can also shed a couple of pounds as well. ;)

It'll surely be interesting to see who can make it through this marathon tournament format. Maybe this will make pool a sport after all.

Blackjack
07-07-2006, 07:08 AM
TOP 5
Schmidt - If he wins he can buy himself yet another putter
Reyes - to win this thing you have to beat him.. how tough is that?
Hohmann - He never plays a bad match
Earl - IMO, he's still the best there is in the clutch
Manalo - has the opportunity to take his rightful place at the very top of the game.

Dark Horses
Karen Corr - I believe she has the ability to beat anybody.
George Breedlove - I would not be surprised to see him in the final
Oliver Ortmann - A true warrior - an unshakable will to win
Ike Runnels - You heard it here first.

ShaneS
07-07-2006, 11:12 AM
I'm going to say either Mark Tadd, Shane V.B., or John Schmidt.

cigardave
07-07-2006, 11:47 AM
I second Linda's selection of Mike Vidas as a dark horse. He's a definite comer... and the IPT is a great opportunity for him to showcase his game.

I'll make a bold prediction... by the end of 2007, I believe that he'll break into the Top 25.

sniper
07-07-2006, 11:57 AM
My top five are:

Reyes
Manalo
Pagulayan
Hohmann
Ortmann

My darkhorses would have to include Edwin Montal, Rico Dics, and several UK players that should surprise alot of people in Vegas!

Johnnyt
07-07-2006, 12:16 PM
Reyes
Bustamanta
Archer < no order
Immonen
Breedlove



Dark Horses
********
Pagulayan
Manala
Souquet
K. Fisher
K. Corr

Johnnyt

MVPCues
07-07-2006, 12:52 PM
Charlie Bryant
Danny Basavich
John Schmidt
Scotty Townsend
Goerge Breedlove

No particular order.

I am surprised to see Scotty's name here. Was he an early submission and selected? or did he win a qualifier?

mnorwood
07-07-2006, 01:50 PM
I am surprised to see Scotty's name here. Was he an early submission and selected? or did he win a qualifier?
Scotty was an early selection. He has won a few major tournaments. I watched Scotty play in a pechauer tournament. He's got the goods.

john schmidt
07-07-2006, 03:46 PM
id like to add something.imho the filipinos really are awesome and they play more pool than the rest of us.but where they stand out over the americans is kicking.now this 8ball takes away the kicking a little.also the game of 8ball is very much like straight pool, believe me. now im not trying to say im going to do well because i play straight pool, but i would look for the europeans and american straight poolers to hold their own pretty well.also when the americans start applying themselves and quit golfing ,poker etc ,myself included and start playing pool 24-7 like the filipinos and euros we might make people think were pretty tough.well thats all the rambling i can do for now im tired, i just got off the golf course with boo weekly he shot 62 from 7 thousand yards.i better stick with pool lol.

Paul Juarez
07-07-2006, 03:53 PM
Top 5 in no particular order

Reyes
Orcullo
Immonen
Manalo
Montel

Dark Horse.....gotta go with my boy Tony Chohan.

mnorwood
07-07-2006, 04:03 PM
id like to add something.imho the filipinos really are awesome and they play more pool than the rest of us.but where they stand out over the americans is kicking.now this 8ball takes away the kicking a little.also the game of 8ball is very much like straight pool, believe me. now im not trying to say im going to do well because i play straight pool, but i would look for the europeans and american straight poolers to hold their own pretty well.also when the americans start applying themselves and quit golfing ,poker etc ,myself included and start playing pool 24-7 like the filipinos and euros we might make people think were pretty tough.well thats all the rambling i can do for now im tired, i just got off the golf course with boo weekly he shot 62 from 7 thousand yards.i better stick with pool lol.
I listed you as a dark horse. However, I agree that if you and other Golfers like Archer, Strickland and Dueal played pool 24/7 you would be more than a match for any of the phillipinos. I beleive you can do it.

Is the IPT money a sufficient enough motivator to focus you and others exclusively on pool? I hope my response does not sound disrespectful or dirogitory, it is truly not my intent.

Johnnyt
07-07-2006, 04:26 PM
id like to add something.imho the filipinos really are awesome and they play more pool than the rest of us.but where they stand out over the americans is kicking.now this 8ball takes away the kicking a little.also the game of 8ball is very much like straight pool, believe me. now im not trying to say im going to do well because i play straight pool, but i would look for the europeans and american straight poolers to hold their own pretty well.also when the americans start applying themselves and quit golfing ,poker etc ,myself included and start playing pool 24-7 like the filipinos and euros we might make people think were pretty tough.well thats all the rambling i can do for now im tired, i just got off the golf course with boo weekly he shot 62 from 7 thousand yards.i better stick with pool lol.
Well stated John. I believe you hit it right on the head. Johnnyt

TATE
07-07-2006, 05:26 PM
I am going to be pulling for Corey Harper who recently won a qualifier. I wlso will be pulling for Max Eberle . I like these guys and want them to do well.

Chris

Colin Colenso
07-07-2006, 06:26 PM
id like to add something.imho the filipinos really are awesome and they play more pool than the rest of us.but where they stand out over the americans is kicking.now this 8ball takes away the kicking a little.also the game of 8ball is very much like straight pool, believe me. now im not trying to say im going to do well because i play straight pool, but i would look for the europeans and american straight poolers to hold their own pretty well.also when the americans start applying themselves and quit golfing ,poker etc ,myself included and start playing pool 24-7 like the filipinos and euros we might make people think were pretty tough.well thats all the rambling i can do for now im tired, i just got off the golf course with boo weekly he shot 62 from 7 thousand yards.i better stick with pool lol.

This resonates with me John,
The Philippinos have a great range of skills and many of them are continually matching up / playing hard games, making them tourney ready.

But they are not so experienced in 8-ball. As you say, 14.1 players will have some advantages over pure 9-ball players in this game. But 14.1 is not purely enough. 8-ball requires a certain level of planning, cluster breaking, double or triple shot positional playing which are all often not intrinsic to the mind of a 9-ball player or 14.1 player, though I think the 14.1 players have a definite advantage over the pure 9-ballers.

For the top 6 I expect at least 3 names that most aren't familiar with. I wouldn't be surprised if 15 of the qualifier entrants make it into the last 36 and another 10 of that 36 are near unknowns, with just around 10-12 of the known name players still active in the last 36.

Players with a familiarity of 8-ball will have an ~30% match advantage over those without the knowledge. The top players will adapt, but it could take them some time.

The English 8-ballers, though their game rules, balls and tables are slightly different. will be well suited I believe. This includes the Australians, Scotts etc. Once they get familiar with the tables and larger balls, they'll adapt their pattern knowledge and be very efficient in taking their opportunities.

My dark horses are the English style pool players and the Europeans who play more 8-ball than most Americans, though I believe their are a dozen or so Americans in the field, mainly from the qualifiers, that have strong capabilities in 8-ball.

It's gonna be a hellfire competition and some previously little known names are gonna make their mark at the Venetian. I can't wait.

Colin

TheOne
07-07-2006, 07:36 PM
First thing, the BREAK, the last 16/32 of this event will ALL have the best breaks, this will seperate the best players in this event more than ANY other criteria. After that it will come down to ability to play under extreem pressure and 8 ball skill/knowledge.

The 9 ballers will struggle, big names will falter. I totally disagree about the filipinos, I dont really need to made the case you only have to look at the previous IPT events and Efren's 8 ball world titles. But straight pool will be of some advantage.

Manalo, Efren, Alex to shine, but watch out for some of the best bar box 8 ballers in the world including Appleton, Shane, Alcaide, Boyes, Hill etc.

9 ballers and snooker players to struggle, 8 ballers and straight poolers to do well, big breaking fillipinos to dominate.

bandido
07-07-2006, 08:18 PM
This resonates with me John,
The Philippinos have a great range of skills and many of them are continually matching up / playing hard games, making them tourney ready.

But they are not so experienced in 8-ball. As you say, 14.1 players will have some advantages over pure 9-ball players in this game. But 14.1 is not purely enough. 8-ball requires a certain level of planning, cluster breaking, double or triple shot positional playing which are all often not intrinsic to the mind of a 9-ball player or 14.1 player, though I think the Colin
Oh boy, I guess the outcome of the KOTH and World 8 Ball Championships don't count ey. Nor the fact that the other Pinoys qualified playing against "seasoned 8-ballers". What credentials are you still looking for Colin? The above requirements that you stated are everyday stuff for these guys who grew up and play rotation plus the deck is stacked in their favor. Tight pockets 4 1/2 x 9s, slower cloth, full 15 balls rack where they only need to negotiate to sink 8 balls (run-out in rotation is 11 consecutively numbered balls to get over 61 pts more if giving spots) and the break box (where rotation racks are normally broke from, here). Also, there's quite a trend when it comes to their greatest motivational factor....lots of $$$$$.

It's a vicious cycle here. When these internationalists win, their winnings trickle down to the lower level players. They have so much discretionary funds that they give outrageous spots and at the start loses to these lower ranked players. This strengthens the intestinal fortitude of the lower levels since they get to battle it out with the "faces". The "faces", sooner or later, finds their higher gear which toughens them even more for their international stint. The Philippines is a small country and Manila being the mecca of all the players here who dream to one day become world champions or even to just support their daily needs through playing pool is the biggest advantage. Does any other country have these conditions?

I'm not saying that other players don't have a chance as I'd like to see other players win (I like different) and affect their countrymen the way that Efren and co did here. It's going to be tough but the win is going to be a lot sweeter.

hippiepool
07-07-2006, 08:51 PM
Brian Groce
Johnny Archer
Tammie Jones
Nick Varner
"Bata" Reyes

MVPCues
07-07-2006, 09:03 PM
Scotty was an early selection. He has won a few major tournaments. I watched Scotty play in a pechauer tournament. He's got the goods.


Oh yeah, I know he is capable. I used to live in central Louisiana. I just meant I don't see his name mentioned much on here and was surprised he was someone's pick. I wouldn't be surprised if he did well.
Kelly

Gerald
07-07-2006, 09:30 PM
I've only seen a couple of people mention Oliver Ortmann. If he plays like he did in the qualifier at Hard Times he will be awfully tough. He only lost to Orcollo and Dennis had to make a very tough run out in the final game. He should not be overlooked!

buck15
07-07-2006, 10:03 PM
my pick for a darkhorse ronnie wisman.awsome pressure player ,is capable of and has beaten any of them,and he wants it.i saw him playing in a tournament just before the ohio qualifier and he was in gear.i think he will go far.ya heard it here.

rukiddingme
07-07-2006, 11:35 PM
Favorites are Manalo and Reyes
I'm rooting for my friend Larry Schwartz as my darkhorse.
ruk

Big Dave
07-08-2006, 12:39 AM
"The British are coming!!!" :D

Grilled Cheese
07-08-2006, 01:22 AM
I have to agree with Colin for the most part.

On another note,

I'm not entirely certain about this particular tournament, but I'm certain that there will be a large shift in tour card holders for 2007. Of the 150 on the player list now, more than 50 can lose their card if qualified players do well in Vegas and Reno. Some of these qualified players are very dangerous. I think many of the qualified players will be very successful as they've had to really slug it out, and some of these qualifiers were brutal. Having played under a lot of pressure, against other tough players, on the same equipment...gives them a slight experience factor over some of the pre-chosen IPT pros who aren't top players. Also, most people who put up $1,000 to take a shot in a qualifier has some fortitude and has a game to play. Therefore, I think more than 50 names on the current list will lose their tour card.


Back on topic,

I think that the top players will end up being those who really understand 8-ball strategy. There are many very good players who play good 8-ball, but make, what I consider to be, bad choices on the table. Who am I to criticize a pro? Particularly in the area of the game where one must weigh defense vs. offense. It seems many are trying to force an out when the percentages favor a safety. This is clearly the influence of 9-ball run and gun, highly offensive and aggressive play - and that leads to the classic disaster of giving up the table on the 8-ball or with one object ball left which is perhaps the worst thing you can do in 8-ball.


The break will be huge. Players who make balls on the break will chose groups, choice of group does lead to winning more racks over the course of a tournament. And I'm speaking of racks in which both players get an opportunity to shoot, not just a run out.


On the other hand, due to the nasty cloth and tight pockets, games do end up being quite clustered, so while the break is big in that you can either run out or chose the superior group - there's always danger looming as your opponent will get more opportunities to shoot in more racks than they would have had it been 9-ball. Letting any top caliber player at the table could lead to all kinds of consequences.


I think good solid 8-ball knowledge will outweigh the power-break, but not by much. Efren doesn't have a power-break, but he's great at 8-ball. Do you expect him to be eliminated early because he doesn't crush them like Bustamante? I doubt that.


Kicking is also less of an issue. The simple fact that this is call shot alone eliminates 50% of the effectiveness of a kick shot. How many times have we seen a 9-baller kick out of a safe and have the object ball rebound 2 rails and get lucked in? Many times. They often go for a particular pocket, but I've watched plenty of pro tournaments, and they luck balls from kicks all the time after missing the desired target. Not going to happen here. Not to mention smaller pockets dramatically reduces the odds of sinking kick shots.


In the end, you'll find the SMARTEST players who know 8-ball and the strong breakers. But a strong break does not = 8-ball success. The strong breakers that predicted to do well in this tournament also happen to know 8-ball well. The 9-ballers who are used to massive cue ball movement all around the table are going to suffer. 8-ball favors the player that likes to do things as simply as possible. 8-ball is a game where you are greatly rewarded for keeping it simple on the table, but thinking complexly. It is amuzing sometimes, many 9-ball players almost have this attitude that certain patterns are "amateur" because they give up a little bit of ease in shotmaking, in order to play a simpler, safer route rather than send the cue ball moving all around. In 8-ball, you have to sometimes take what you get, because moving the cueball a lot is actually more dangerous due to traffic than just dealing with the tougher pocketing. We've already seen examples of this in the limited OLN KOTH coverage, and I've seen examples of this in a qualifier. As a final note, some 9-ball players have cemented a certain pre-shot/table routine in their game that does not incorporate the amount of thinking time required for 8-ball. This throws off timing and just your general game and rhythm at the table. This isn't going to work well as the difficult gets magnified even more when the pressure is on.

All of that being said, I believe the hard-core 8-ballers and straight pool players will have an edge. There aren't too many young and energetic straight pool players left...and I don't expect many of the HOF'ers to do well.

TheOne
07-08-2006, 03:57 AM
The last 16/32 are all going to be world beaters with monster breaks. Then it will come down to ability to play under pressure, at that stage look out the for big time gamblers, mainly the filipinos ;)

Colin Colenso
07-08-2006, 05:20 AM
Oh boy, I guess the outcome of the KOTH and World 8 Ball Championships don't count ey. Nor the fact that the other Pinoys qualified playing against "seasoned 8-ballers". What credentials are you still looking for Colin? The above requirements that you stated are everyday stuff for these guys who grew up and play rotation plus the deck is stacked in their favor. Tight pockets 4 1/2 x 9s, slower cloth, full 15 balls rack where they only need to negotiate to sink 8 balls (run-out in rotation is 11 consecutively numbered balls to get over 61 pts more if giving spots) and the break box (where rotation racks are normally broke from, here). Also, there's quite a trend when it comes to their greatest motivational factor....lots of $$$$$.

It's a vicious cycle here. When these internationalists win, their winnings trickle down to the lower level players. They have so much discretionary funds that they give outrageous spots and at the start loses to these lower ranked players. This strengthens the intestinal fortitude of the lower levels since they get to battle it out with the "faces". The "faces", sooner or later, finds their higher gear which toughens them even more for their international stint. The Philippines is a small country and Manila being the mecca of all the players here who dream to one day become world champions or even to just support their daily needs through playing pool is the biggest advantage. Does any other country have these conditions?

I'm not saying that other players don't have a chance as I'd like to see other players win (I like different) and affect their countrymen the way that Efren and co did here. It's going to be tough but the win is going to be a lot sweeter.
Hi Edwin,
I didn't mean any offense to the Filipinos, I'm just going on what Ronnie Alcano told me. He said he doesn't know 8-ball very well and that most the Filipinos don't play it much. His lack of 8-ball strategy let him down on occassion in clustered racks and also by making some outs harder than they needed to be.

But don't get me wrong, the top Filipino players have so many strengths that many of them will be contenders. I just think they can improve in the approximately 30% of games where some specific 8-ball smarts can create an advantage.

The KOH and World 8 Ball were limited in depth to what we will see the IPT events. At the KOH only Efren and Marlon managed over 40% break and run stats, but I think after the first season, the top 30 will be approaching 50% break and run stats and that's when that specialist knowledge will start to make the difference.

Colin

memikey
07-08-2006, 08:28 AM
........ I think more than 50 names on the current list will lose their tour card.



How is it possible for more than 50 to lose their cards?

The IPT wording of the 2007 tour card qualifying criteria could certainly be improved but it doesn't say that any card holders finishing outside the top 100 in the money list will lose their right to retain their cards for 2007,it simply says that the bottom ranked 50 out of the 2006 card holders will lose their right to retain their cards.

I interpret that to be that they intend the top 100 existing card holders out of the existing total 150 card holders (ie not counting any qualifiers who finish in the money list top 100) to keep their cards automatically for 2007 irrespective of whether or not they are actually in the money list top 100.Additionally I interpret that they intend to allocate 2007 tour cards to any qualifier who who paid the higher level entry fee and who finishes in the top 100 in the money list.

The above interpretations would mean that every 2007 tour card won by a 2006 event qualifier by virtue of finishing top 100 in the money list would effectively mean one less available 2007 card to play for in the end of season qualifying event.In other words the 150 exempt tour card holders for 2007 will consist of the top 100 finishers out of the existing card holders plus any full entry fee qualifiers who finish in the money list top 100 plus those who win the remaining balance of cards (whatever number that might be) at the end of season qualifying event.

I could have interpreted IPT wrong,I often do.What do others think?

DanielM
07-08-2006, 10:58 AM
How is it possible for more than 50 to lose their cards?

The IPT wording of the 2007 tour card qualifying criteria could certainly be improved but it doesn't say that any card holders finishing outside the top 100 in the money list will lose their right to retain their cards for 2007,it simply says that the bottom ranked 50 out of the 2006 card holders will lose their right to retain their cards.

I interpret that to be that they intend the top 100 existing card holders out of the existing total 150 card holders (ie not counting any qualifiers who finish in the money list top 100) to keep their cards automatically for 2007 irrespective of whether or not they are actually in the money list top 100.Additionally I interpret that they intend to allocate 2007 tour cards to any qualifier who who paid the higher level entry fee and who finishes in the top 100 in the money list.

The above interpretations would mean that every 2007 tour card won by a 2006 event qualifier by virtue of finishing top 100 in the money list would effectively mean one less available 2007 card to play for in the end of season qualifying event.In other words the 150 exempt tour card holders for 2007 will consist of the top 100 finishers out of the existing card holders plus any full entry fee qualifiers who finish in the money list top 100 plus those who win the remaining balance of cards (whatever number that might be) at the end of season qualifying event.

I could have interpreted IPT wrong,I often do.What do others think?

I'm pretty sure the following is how it works:-

*Any player who qualified for any open events and paid the full price entry fee get to be on the money list with the card holders.
*The top 100 money list get 2007 tour cards, IRRESPECTIVE of whether they are tour card holders or not. In other words, you don't need to be a 2006 tour card holder to win a 2007 tour card.
*The end of year 2007 tour card qualifier will make 50 players card holders guaranteed.

Due to the fact a player who qualified for an open event can finish on the top 100 money list, inevitably means more than fifty 2006 card holders will lose their places. HENCE Bola Ocho said he thinks more than 50 will lose their tour cards.

If the IPT actually said 50 tour card holders will lose their place, then this is inaccurate, and may of been said before the IPT decided qualifiers could make the money list.

Was i clear? Please let me know if you're not sure.

Blackjack
07-08-2006, 11:07 AM
The last 16/32 are all going to be world beaters with monster breaks. Then it will come down to ability to play under pressure, at that stage look out the for big time gamblers, mainly the filipinos ;)

Tap-tap. Endurance will play a major factor in this format. I think that makes Thorsten a big favorite because of his excellent physical and mental conditioning.

TheOne
07-08-2006, 11:23 AM
Tap-tap. Endurance will play a major factor in this format. I think that makes Thorsten a big favorite because of his excellent physical and mental conditioning.

Yes I agree

TheOne
07-08-2006, 11:31 AM
I'm pretty sure the following is how it works:-

*Any player who qualified for any open events and paid the full price entry fee get to be on the money list with the card holders.
*The top 100 money list get 2007 tour cards, IRRESPECTIVE of whether they are tour card holders or not. In other words, you don't need to be a 2006 tour card holder to win a 2007 tour card.
*The end of year 2007 tour card qualifier will make 50 players card holders guaranteed.

Due to the fact a player who qualified for an open event can finish on the top 100 money list, inevitably means more than fifty 2006 card holders will lose their places. HENCE Bola Ocho said he thinks more than 50 will lose their tour cards.

If the IPT actually said 50 tour card holders will lose their place, then this is inaccurate, and may of been said before the IPT decided qualifiers could make the money list.

Was i clear? Please let me know if you're not sure.

Yep I think your correct and just an oversight on the part of the IPT, probably just legacy copy on their website.

In theory of course all 150 IPT could lose their cards in the unlikely even that the 50 qualifiers fill the top 50 spots in the NA Open and then a completely new 50 players do the same in the world Open! I'm sure the numbers wouldnt allow this even if the tour card holders cut their own throats in the closed events. Needless to say its not going to happen but I expect atleast 25 of the qualifiers to earn enough points for a tour card. I think less than $20k will be enough ;)

hilla_hilla
07-08-2006, 11:47 AM
Efren Reyes
Dennis Orcullo
Nick Varner
Johnny Archer
Mark Tadd (if he's anything like he was in his prime)

memikey
07-08-2006, 12:24 PM
I'm pretty sure the following is how it works:-

*Any player who qualified for any open events and paid the full price entry fee get to be on the money list with the card holders.
*The top 100 money list get 2007 tour cards, IRRESPECTIVE of whether they are tour card holders or not. In other words, you don't need to be a 2006 tour card holder to win a 2007 tour card.
*The end of year 2007 tour card qualifier will make 50 players card holders guaranteed.

Due to the fact a player who qualified for an open event can finish on the top 100 money list, inevitably means more than fifty 2006 card holders will lose their places. HENCE Bola Ocho said he thinks more than 50 will lose their tour cards.

If the IPT actually said 50 tour card holders will lose their place, then this is inaccurate, and may of been said before the IPT decided qualifiers could make the money list.

Was i clear? Please let me know if you're not sure.

Yes Daniel,that's perfectly clear and of course I already knew that was what Bola Ocha meant and that he is probably right........but I still don't think it's absolutely clear.

There are three reasons why I think that.

Firstly the IPT have already changed their site information to make it clear that qualifiers in the top 100 will get cards and have had ample chance to change any related aspects if they wanted to but they have not changed anything in the site information in respect of what would happen to the top 100 and bottom 50 of the existing card holders.This change would be a fundamental shifting of the goalposts especially from the card holders' perspective and surely they would have made all the necessary changes in their site at the same time? A literal interpretation of what's still in the site today,including the wording of announcements that qualifiers could now earn places via the money list,still leaves it ambiguous.

Secondly,let's say the finishing money list positions are approximately like this:-

Positions 1- 80...... existing card holders
Positions 81-100.... qualifiers
Positions 101-170... existing card holders
positions 171-200... qualifiers

If your interpretation is correct there would be 70 card holders who do not automatically get cards but the IPT still up to today clearly say in all their IPT Tournament schedule information that only the "bottom ranked 50 card holders" will play in the end of season qualifiers alonside the hopefuls.What would IPT do with the 20 card holders ranked 101-120 then? Are they saying that they also play in the qualifier (making it the bottom ranked 70 card holders) to the exclusion of another 20 hopefuls or will they only allow the highest 50 ranked out of those card holders who finished outside the top 100 in the money list to play in the qualifier or are we saying these 20 just disappear and cease to exist?:)

Thirdly,I don't remember IPT saying clearly recently (ie at any time after they announced that qualifiers could earn a card) that there would still definitely be 50 places to play for in the end of season qualifier,if anything they've been careful not to say anything at all about how many places would be available in the end of season qualifier.

I've no strong feeling about this and am certainly totally prepared to be wrong but please have a look at the current state of play throughout the site with the above in mind and tell me if you still feel the same:D

It would also be interesting to know what clarification card holders have been given by IPT in respect of this issue.

pete-biker
07-08-2006, 12:27 PM
Just two names that will be high on results:

Immonen
Lely

(the fact that i really don't know that much about americans keeps my mouth shut about predicting names)

memikey
07-08-2006, 12:35 PM
Due to the fact a player who qualified for an open event can finish on the top 100 money list, inevitably means more than fifty 2006 card holders will lose their places. HENCE Bola Ocho said he thinks more than 50 will lose their tour cards.


Don't want to split hairs over literals but even if your overall interpretation is correct the above is not strictly true in essence.It is quite possible that all 50 qualifying places would be won by existing card holders who didn't make the top 100 thereby effectively keeping their cards;)

DanielM
07-08-2006, 01:48 PM
Yes Daniel,that's perfectly clear and of course I already knew that was what Bola Ocha meant and that he is probably right........but I still don't think it's absolutely clear.

There are three reasons why I think that.

Firstly the IPT have already changed their site information to make it clear that qualifiers in the top 100 will get cards and have had ample chance to change any related aspects if they wanted to but they have not changed anything in the site information in respect of what would happen to the top 100 and bottom 50 of the existing card holders.This change would be a fundamental shifting of the goalposts especially from the card holders' perspective and surely they would have made all the necessary changes in their site at the same time? A literal interpretation of what's still in the site today,including the wording of announcements that qualifiers could now earn places via the money list,still leaves it ambiguous.

Secondly,let's say the finishing money list positions are approximately like this:-

Positions 1- 80...... existing card holders
Positions 81-100.... qualifiers
Positions 101-170... existing card holders
positions 171-200... qualifiers

If your interpretation is correct there would be 70 card holders who do not automatically get cards but the IPT still up to today clearly say in all their IPT Tournament schedule information that only the "bottom ranked 50 card holders" will play in the end of season qualifiers alonside the hopefuls.What would IPT do with the 20 card holders ranked 101-120 then? Are they saying that they also play in the qualifier (making it the bottom ranked 70 card holders) to the exclusion of another 20 hopefuls or will they only allow the highest 50 ranked out of those card holders who finished outside the top 100 in the money list to play in the qualifier or are we saying these 20 just disappear and cease to exist?:)

Thirdly,I don't remember IPT saying clearly recently (ie at any time after they announced that qualifiers could earn a card) that there would still definitely be 50 places to play for in the end of season qualifier,if anything they've been careful not to say anything at all about how many places would be available in the end of season qualifier.

I've no strong feeling about this and am certainly totally prepared to be wrong but please have a look at the current state of play throughout the site with the above in mind and tell me if you still feel the same:D

It would also be interesting to know what clarification card holders have been given by IPT in respect of this issue.

That's a good point. The IPT has said two things, the bottom 50 along with 150 players from 75 pre-qualifiers will play in a final qualification tournament down to 50 players. If this is true and there will be 75 pre-qualifiers and 50 ex-tour card players, then the ONLY possibility is that the lowest of the low ranked players will have to play in the pre-qualifiers along with the hopefulls (like you said), but we know this isn't really 100% and KT could change it to whatever he wants. Another possibility is they could reduce the number of pre-qualifiers to make up for the fact more than 50 card holders will lose their place. It seems nothing is in stone.

Also i think there will be 50 places up for grabs next year, as i'm pretty sure there will be 150 tour carders at the start of next year so this tells me the end of year tournament will have 50 places. I can't see how they'd get an odd number like 55 or 45 in a qualifier.. but you're right this as of this moment isn't clear on the IPT site unless i've missed something. :)

justnum
07-08-2006, 01:55 PM
chuck norris has the field beat on this one.

One look at the table and balls just start falling into pockets.

DanielM
07-08-2006, 02:08 PM
chuck norris has the field beat on this one.

One look at the table and balls just start falling into pockets.

Mike Sigel won't like that. It wasn't that way back when he was playing.

justnum
07-08-2006, 02:11 PM
I fail to see the connection.

Poolislife
07-08-2006, 05:56 PM
is azbilliards going to bring back virtual cash>??? also where can one bet on this tourney at??? i like Shane


Hey guys,

I've Emailed www.stanjames.com they have confirmed that they will have pre-tourny outright lines for all IPT events, and will offer select matches throughout the tourny. :D

billychips
07-08-2006, 07:09 PM
Only about 2 weeks to go before the much awaited IPT Las Vegas tournament. Who do you think will be in the top 5? Who's your dark horse?
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Jason Kirkwood??? He plays awesome 8 ball. Other dark horses, Troy Frank, Scott Frost, Denver Barger, and of course Chris Bartam. Anyone wanna gamble on these???

billychips
07-08-2006, 07:09 PM
Only about 2 weeks to go before the much awaited IPT Las Vegas tournament. Who do you think will be in the top 5? Who's your dark horse?
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Jason Kirkwood??? He plays awesome 8 ball. Other dark horses, Troy Frank, Scott Frost, Denver Barger, and of course Chris Bartam. Anyone wanna gamble on these???

bandido
07-08-2006, 09:09 PM
Hi Edwin,
I didn't mean any offense to the Filipinos, I'm just going on what Ronnie Alcano told me. He said he doesn't know 8-ball very well and that most the Filipinos don't play it much. His lack of 8-ball strategy let him down on occassion in clustered racks and also by making some outs harder than they needed to be.

But don't get me wrong, the top Filipino players have so many strengths that many of them will be contenders. I just think they can improve in the approximately 30% of games where some specific 8-ball smarts can create an advantage.

The KOH and World 8 Ball were limited in depth to what we will see the IPT events. At the KOH only Efren and Marlon managed over 40% break and run stats, but I think after the first season, the top 30 will be approaching 50% break and run stats and that's when that specialist knowledge will start to make the difference.

Colin
No offense taken Colin. I was told what happened to Ronnie in the China qualifier and it was ugly. Ronnie was playing like he was brain dead being in a foreign environment. He was way outside his comfort zone being in a surrounding that was all new to him. Look what happened when he got back to familiar surroundings, Las Vegas USA. I can relate to that, I'd be lost for a few days too if asked to make a cue in somebody else's shop.

It's been 6 months since the KOTH so with all the 8Ball match-ups that went on here, I think that 8Ball strategy can't be a downfall for these guys anymore. So the Pinoys are ready. What I do see as a downfall for most of the Euros, who play Euro style 8-Ball, would be the lack of "muscle memory" for the equipment that'll be used in American style 8-ball. You did mention that the Europeans use different spec equipment when playing 8 right? They need to practice using the same spec equipment or they won't be contenders. I'm a Ronnie O' fan but he's a good example for this "muscle memory" that I mentioned. He's great with the big table and smaller balls but not really world beater with the regulation pool equipment. The one factor is "muscle memory" for the equipment used.

My prediction:
Efren or Mika
Marlon
Tademy
Orcullo
Thorsten
Alcano
Pagulayan
Archer
Varner
Bustamante
Lely

memikey
07-09-2006, 12:06 AM
...... What I do see as a downfall for most of the Euros, who play Euro style 8-Ball, would be the lack of "muscle memory" for the equipment that'll be used in American style 8-ball. You did mention that the Europeans use different spec equipment when playing 8 right? They need to practice using the same spec equipment or they won't be contenders.....

The UK 8 ball players of course have played the majority of their pool on Uk style equipment.However many of them,long before IPT came into being,were from time to time playing and doing well in,8 ball and 9 ball tournaments on American equipment.

Furthermore,most of the Uk 8ball players who have been granted cards have invested in their own private IPT spec tables and cloths several weeks/months ago or have at least arranged regular access to IPT tables belonging to others.I understand some are even sleeping on IPT spec tables never mind practising on them:D

Ignore their chances at your peril;)

Huge outsider I'd add to the mix......Chinese player Jianbo Fu.......focused,talented and clinical finisher.

bandido
07-09-2006, 12:44 AM
The UK 8 ball players of course have played the majority of their pool on Uk style equipment.However many of them,long before IPT came into being,were from time to time playing and doing well in,8 ball and 9 ball tournaments on American equipment.

Furthermore,most of the Uk 8ball players who have been granted cards have invested in their own private IPT spec tables and cloths several weeks/months ago or have at least arranged regular access to IPT tables belonging to others.I understand some are even sleeping on IPT spec tables never mind practising on them:D

Ignore their chances at your peril;)

Huge outsider I'd add to the mix......Chinese player Jianbo Fu.......focused,talented and clinical finisher.

Not ignoring but simply replying to Colin's post.

The English 8-ballers, though their game rules, balls and tables are slightly different. will be well suited I believe. This includes the Australians, Scotts etc. Once they get familiar with the tables and larger balls, they'll adapt their pattern knowledge and be very efficient in taking their opportunities.

I don't really think that any possibility that an opponent may do in preparation for what's ahead is ignored here. If it's done here then it's most likely done there. I guess the level of preparation depends on who's hungrier.

DUOBIS
07-09-2006, 07:06 AM
chuck norris has the field beat on this one.

One look at the table and balls just start falling into pockets.
check out this link for a good laugh!.http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/

mnorwood
07-09-2006, 07:54 AM
Chuck Norris over efren reyes at the IPT tournament. Efren doesn't have a prayer. Any takers on that action?

sjm
07-09-2006, 08:29 AM
The Fillipinos are phenomenal and can be expected to be phenomenal at every game played over the green felt for two reasons, eight ball included.

1) as noted by John Schmidt, their great work ethic
2) their general capacity for superior tactical conceptualization in all games

Anything tactical they don't know yet about eight ball, they will know soon. Let's give credit to the Fillipinos, who always seem to rase the bar higher in tactical conceptualization.

Still, any claim that the Fillipinos aren't ready to go in the eight ball discipline is seemingly invalidated by the fact that Reyes, Bustamante and Manalo were the top three in the race to face the King of the Hill in Orlando.

Snapshot9
07-09-2006, 09:13 AM
I don't know if I could name top 5, but 2 darkhorses no one has mentioned
are:

1) Gabe Owen
2) James Walden

(and for the user that named Frost, both Gabe and James beat Scott
7 out of 10 times in 8 ball consistently, or 9 ball for that matter, but Scott
would dominate in 1 pocket).

Grilled Cheese
07-09-2006, 03:11 PM
Needless to say its not going to happen but I expect atleast 25 of the qualifiers to earn enough points for a tour card.

If they do that, then that will push out 75 current tour card holders. Hence my statement that more than 50 can lose their cards.

If it works any other way, it would be HIGHLY unfair and basically a huge protective system for the pre-chosen tour card holders.

There will always be 150 card holders all the time. Top 100 from a given season get a card or get to keep their card, 50 or possibly more who had a card will need to requalify for it.

There's some confusion over whether it will be points OR money. That's unfair in a way, since being 10th in one tournament might let you win $30,000, while being 10th in another lets you win $40,000. If the IPT wants to make it about the "best" not the "luckiest" or those with the "best timing"...it should be based on POINTS, not money. But money will correlate with points pretty closely, but not necessarily. There can be some freak instances, like how the electoral college can elect a president with less popular votes.


Right now there's 150 tour card holders. If 50 HAVE to lose their card, regardless of how well the qualifed players do, that would be very unfair because those bottom 100 tour card holders might rank from 100-200. That would mean that there would be a solid 50 places NOT held by tour card holders that are ranked better (these would be all 50 qualified players)...So tour card holders 100-150 would get to keep their cards even though 50-100 (who are qualifed players) would get nothing. Makes no sense whatsoever.

memikey
07-10-2006, 12:23 AM
....Right now there's 150 tour card holders. If 50 HAVE to lose their card, regardless of how well the qualifed players do, that would be very unfair because those bottom 100 tour card holders might rank from 100-200. That would mean that there would be a solid 50 places NOT held by tour card holders that are ranked better (these would be all 50 qualified players)...So tour card holders 100-150 would get to keep their cards even though 50-100 (who are qualifed players) would get nothing. Makes no sense whatsoever.

May be ridiculous to contemplate but in that scenario which you describe above......100 highest ranked out of the 150 existing card holders would keep their cards for 2007. The 50 qualifiers who had finished in the top 100 would get the whole remaining balance of 50 cards for 2007 (assuming they had all paid the full entry fee and not the half price fee) because IPT have confirmed that all such 'full entry fee' qualifiers finishing top 100 will get cards.There would therefore then already be 150 tour card holders for 2007 and therefore no need for an end of season qualifying competition,meaning 50 bottom ranked 2006 card holders and all other hopefuls would have nothing to play in at Vegas in December and no hope of retaining/earning a 2007 card:D

The above might also be said to make no sense at all,but IPT have at no time yet amended their original clear indication which was simply that "the bottom ranked 50 tour card holders will lose their cards".If you go to the website Schedule section and read the description of the end of season qualifying competition you will find it.They have also not at any time yet said anything along the lines that "in addition to the bottom 50 ranked card holders any card holder finishing outside the top 100 in the overall 200 player money list, ie including qualifiers, will also lose their cards".

Therein lies the principle source of confusion,even moreso than the points/money issue:(

StraightPoolIU
07-10-2006, 01:03 AM
Chuck Norris over efren reyes at the IPT tournament. Efren doesn't have a prayer. Any takers on that action?

These are the two conditions under which I will bet against Chuck Norris.

1. Chuck Norris gives a spot that if his opponent shows up it counts as a loss for Chuck.

2. You give me 150,000,000,000,000 to 1 on the money.

Random fact: Chuck Norris can get McDonald's breakfast after 10:30.

Grilled Cheese
07-10-2006, 02:09 AM
May be ridiculous to contemplate but in that scenario which you describe above......100 highest ranked out of the 150 existing card holders would keep their cards for 2007. The 50 qualifiers who had finished in the top 100 would get the whole remaining balance of 50 cards for 2007 (assuming they had all paid the full entry fee and not the half price fee) because IPT have confirmed that all such 'full entry fee' qualifiers finishing top 100 will get cards.There would therefore then already be 150 tour card holders for 2007 and therefore no need for an end of season qualifying competition,meaning 50 bottom ranked 2006 card holders and all other hopefuls would have nothing to play in at Vegas in December and no hope of retaining/earning a 2007 card:D

The above might also be said to make no sense at all,but IPT have at no time yet amended their original clear indication which was simply that "the bottom ranked 50 tour card holders will lose their cards".If you go to the website Schedule section and read the description of the end of season qualifying competition you will find it.They have also not at any time yet said anything along the lines that "in addition to the bottom 50 ranked card holders any card holder finishing outside the top 100 in the overall 200 player money list, ie including qualifiers, will also lose their cards".

Therein lies the principle source of confusion,even moreso than the points/money issue:(



Oh I agree. I think when KT or whomever was describing the process, they were assuming (or equating) the 150 card holders to be the top 150 in general. When describing the IPT, I don't think that clarification was necessary as they were still far off from encountering the issue of qualified players scoring well and maybe making it.


I think it will be clarified eventually. In fact, the term "keep" when referring to a tour card shouldn't be used. You don't keep a card, because cards are issued for specific seasons. The top 100 players will earn a tour card for the next season just for being the top 100. That's a much more simplified way of saying it. Easy. The fact that there's 150 tour card holders is irrelevant. The other 50 can come from qualifiers or whatever other process.


Since 150 doesn't fit into 100, this simply means that 50 of the 150 tour card holders will not earn a card for the next season. That doesn't say that it will ONLY be 50, it could be more. Hypothetically, if the 150 current holders ranked 1-150, then yes, the bottom 50 would not earn a card. But if they scatter across the board, from 1-200...still - the bottom 50 will not earn a card, however, if the qualified players do well, more than the bottom 50 current card holders might not earn a card for the next season.


Now, it will be very TOUGH for a qualified player to do get a card if they do not have a strong showing. This is because there are only 2 open tournaments this year, and 2 IPT tournaments. This gives the 150 tour card holders twice the opportunity to gain points/money than a qualified player. To make matters worse (for the qualified players), the qualified players must battle it out to qualify AGAIN for the 2nd open (world open in Reno) unless they finish top 6 in Vegas. There's no guarantee that a qualified player that finishes 30th in Vegas will survive the qualifiers for the next Open tournament. This is a possibility. Those qualifiers can be brutal. Some very good players had to try more than once and struggled.


I'm assuming that the IPT will be handing out points for the Masters and Players tournaments?


A qualified player would need to score enough points/money in 2 tournaments to beat out the points accumulated by at least the bottom 50 IPT card holders over 4 tournaments. And that STILL isn't a 100% guarantee. Those bottom 50 IPT players might be low enough to where other qualified players keep you out of the top 100. It's possible. Given the talent currently in the IPT, getting great finishes will be very hard..we're talking beating out at least 20-30 top world pros to even finish in the top 30. This is round robin also...which makes it even tougher for those who are not seasoned in high-caliber tournament play. If you can't get great finishes, it will be tough to get enough points to beat out even the more lousy card holders. You'd have to figure that you need to land at worst, somewhere in the 70-90 range after 2 tournaments, then PRAY that a good chunk of the current 150 card holders, and all of the qualfied players get slaughtered in every tournament by getting 1st round knock-outs each time. Looking at the list of the 150, I can see a good 25-30 players that will get 1st round eliminations in every tournament..but more than 50 when factoring other qualified players? dunno. Hard to say.


Of course, there's always the tour card qualifiers for next year - that's the best opportunity to get in.

The 2007 season will have significantly more OPEN tournaments, increasing the chances for qualifiers to earn a card that way. That's difficult too, since you must qualify for each and every tournament, and that in itself is expensive and difficult and you have no guarantee of success (even if you are good). However, 2007 season will not be as "protective" for the 150 tour card holders as the ratio of opens vs. players/masters tournaments is much different. Another question becomes determination? Will players put themselves through that kind of risk and effort? Especially when they are border-line IPT skilled? (assuming the IPT roster has settled into the "best")


I've been wondering how difficult or easy future qualifiers will be? Two ideas. One is that as time goes on, the best of the best will get all packed into the tour...thus there will be less of them dangling around in qualifiers posing as an obsticle. Look at Pagulayan..he qualified to get in. He'll most likely earn a card through play and not have to participate in another qualifier so long as his game doesn't completely collapse. So, for the those trying to get in, there will be less and less world-beaters competing in qualifiers.

On the other hand, as the IPT grows and establishes itself, becomes more and more legitimate, gains popularity...it will bring out all sorts of other good players that aren't IPT pros, and haven't tried to enter even a single qualifier yet. There's still a lot of talent out there we know about, then there's talent out there that we don't know about, but are unsure as to whether they exist or not (unknowns, road players etc...). Let's not forget about a lot of the international talent that is not being proportionately represented in the IPT (yet)...


A few folks that will lose their cards after this season do not have a snow ball's chance in he11 of re-qualifying through a tour card qualifier or a tournament qualifier...so, they'd better enjoy the ride now.

TheOne
07-10-2006, 02:22 AM
Of course, there's always the tour card qualifiers for next year - that's the best opportunity to get in.


You make some good points, but I'm not so sure about this point. This is what I first thought but if you look at the prize money for the 4 tournaments you will see that they are pretty top heavy. Also given the fact that the first round group stage in each tournament are going to be seeded based on international ranking lists we are going to see alot of the card holders going out in the first round of each event leaving them stuck on 13k. Any open qualifier that wins through a couple of rounds in either of the two open event s is going to beat this amount and earn a card. I think even if a player makes it through the first stage in each of the two non open events I think they will only increase their winnings by a few thousand.

I predict that somewhere around $20k will be enough to earn a card after the 4 tournaments have finished, possibly slightly less. I didn't realise it at first but IMO this represents the easier of the two ways to earn a 2007 card.

McKinneyMiner
07-10-2006, 07:29 AM
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Jason Kirkwood??? He plays awesome 8 ball. Other dark horses, Troy Frank, Scott Frost, Denver Barger, and of course Chris Bartam. Anyone wanna gamble on these???

I'll give you this, you've got some gamble backing that group.

Tell you what, I'll give you your five and I'll take:

Reyes
Bustamante
Archer
Deuel
Orcullo

Wanna gamble?

billychips
07-10-2006, 07:39 AM
I'll give you this, you've got some gamble backing that group.

Tell you what, I'll give you your five and I'll take:

Reyes
Bustamante
Archer
Deuel
Orcullo

Wanna gamble?

Actually it wouldnt be what you call gambling. If you want to steal, go to 7 Eleven and rob them. If you understood what a dark horse was, maybe you could pick one, and not just 5 of the favorites Einstein!

bandido
07-10-2006, 07:59 AM
For dark horses I'll take:
Orcullo
Alcano
Tademy
Van den Burg
Fu Jianbo
Except for Vanden Burg everyone else are newbies to the tour.

rackmsuckr
07-10-2006, 09:08 AM
I am posting for Bernie here, who has asked me to put in his vote.

Please tell them that philip harrison of england is gonna take the pool world by storm, and that Bernie Friend told them so first,thanks.please post that for me.

Grilled Cheese
07-10-2006, 02:36 PM
You make some good points, but I'm not so sure about this point. This is what I first thought but if you look at the prize money for the 4 tournaments you will see that they are pretty top heavy. Also given the fact that the first round group stage in each tournament are going to be seeded based on international ranking lists we are going to see alot of the card holders going out in the first round of each event leaving them stuck on 13k. Any open qualifier that wins through a couple of rounds in either of the two open event s is going to beat this amount and earn a card. I think even if a player makes it through the first stage in each of the two non open events I think they will only increase their winnings by a few thousand.

I predict that somewhere around $20k will be enough to earn a card after the 4 tournaments have finished, possibly slightly less. I didn't realise it at first but IMO this represents the easier of the two ways to earn a 2007 card.


I didn't know it would be seeded. That changes things quite a bit.


Given that, I need to slightly reanalyze my original assumptions.