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RickBrazil
07-09-2006, 02:25 AM
Its 4:48 am, Sunday, just before the sun is about to shine in Greensboro, N.C. ;and after watching the IPT, I will declare that Manalo has made more money loosing those matches and probaly received more promisses, then anybody else in the history of pool up to date...:(

Honestly, correct-me if i am wrong, (One picture is worth a MILLION words) I just cant see the reason that Manalo missed such shots, and @ the same time comparing Reyes Mistakes; There is no way, Were they drugged or something; it just make me wonder, I mean C'mon; U R A POOL player, watch it more then once if necessary and then come ague w/ me...

I guess I should just say I'm sorry for my frustration, but then again I wouldn't, Cuz I never had no favorites, like all kind of foruns going on lately; to start with : -I don't admire then, I envy then... It's different; anyway, its late, I got to get some sleep, lets open some discussion about this; lets see were we can get !!!

tedkaufman
07-09-2006, 06:45 AM
Its 4:48 am, Sunday, just before the sun is about to shine in Greensboro, N.C. ;and after watching the IPT, I will declare that Manalo has made more money loosing those matches and probaly received more promisses, then anybody else in the history of pool up to date...:(

Honestly, correct-me if i am wrong, (One picture is worth a MILLION words) I just cant see the reason that Manalo missed such shots, and @ the same time comparing Reyes Mistakes; There is no way, Were they drugged or something; it just make me wonder, I mean C'mon; U R A POOL player, watch it more then once if necessary and then come ague w/ me...

I guess I should just say I'm sorry for my frustration, but then again I wouldn't, Cuz I never had no favorites, like all kind of foruns going on lately; to start with : -I don't admire then, I envy then... It's different; anyway, its late, I got to get some sleep, lets open some discussion about this; lets see were we can get !!!

Good thinking, Rick. I'm sure there were billionaires lined up everywhere prepared to give Manalo far more than the $200,000 he could have won in the IPT. We all know how much money is thrown at the top pool players, so I'm sure you were right.

Do you think Reyes failed to get the message, though? Or maybe you think Sigel dumped in the finals to take some of that secret society of billionaire money? That's probably it, huh?

jjinfla
07-09-2006, 06:45 AM
Are you insinuating that Manalo, Bustamante and Reyes would conspire to make the most money out of the IPT? That if given a choice Reyes would be the one to play Mikey? And it was a three way split?

C,mon, I am ashamed at you that anyone in the pool fraternity would even think such a thing could happen. Especially coming from the Philipines where the average yearly salary is $800.

LOL

Jake

bandido
07-09-2006, 07:11 AM
No, not Marlon. I was witness to when he was offered some cash in a non-bearing (for Marlon) match during the WPC Cardiff Round-robin stages by the guy who'd make it if he beat Marlon in their match. Marlon declined and spanked him to get a perfect 7-0 record in the round-robin stages.

bud green
07-09-2006, 07:25 AM
Phillipinos sure seem to get accused of "cutting-it-up" a lot. I have to believe most of the stories about the Pinoy pro's are either exaggerated or false.

Not too many guys wanted to enter the Hard Times ring game in Sacramento recently, though. "$600 to play against Orcullo and 3 or 4 other Philipinos? No thanks." A lot of the lack of interest was because Orcullo is almost unbeatable lately but still, its almost assumed that the other players will team up against non-phillipinos.

Efren, Jose, Bustamente, Manalo, Lining,etc... are all great players, and I'm sure no dummies about gambling, but I just don't get the sense that they're always looking to pull "moves", split everything up (unless they're travelling together, maybe), or really that willing to dump once they've reached the level they're at now.

Bad rap or am I just being naive?

Nostroke
07-09-2006, 07:53 AM
No, not Marlon. I was witness to when he was offered some cash in a non-bearing (for Marlon) match during the WPC Cardiff Round-robin stages by the guy who'd make it if he beat Marlon in their match. Marlon declined and spanked him to get a perfect 7-0 record in the round-robin stages.

And i was there when Efren refused very nearly the same offer.

jimmyg
07-09-2006, 10:52 AM
Its 4:48 am, Sunday, just before the sun is about to shine in Greensboro, N.C. ;and after watching the IPT, I will declare that Manalo has made more money loosing those matches and probaly received more promisses, then anybody else in the history of pool up to date...:(

Honestly, correct-me if i am wrong, (One picture is worth a MILLION words) I just cant see the reason that Manalo missed such shots, and @ the same time comparing Reyes Mistakes; There is no way, Were they drugged or something; it just make me wonder, I mean C'mon; U R A POOL player, watch it more then once if necessary and then come ague w/ me...

I guess I should just say I'm sorry for my frustration, but then again I wouldn't, Cuz I never had no favorites, like all kind of foruns going on lately; to start with : -I don't admire then, I envy then... It's different; anyway, its late, I got to get some sleep, lets open some discussion about this; lets see were we can get !!!
Rick, Don't know why anyone is entirely dismissing the possibility. Didn't KT himself state that the IPT tour would be a combination of reality tv, poker, and professional wrestling? Why then would staged matches, created controversy (male vs female) and scripted rivalries be off limits?

And if it were part of the overall plan, just like the wrestlers, the players simply go along with the script. It's certainly possible. I just hope that aside from bringing more money into the great sport of pool, it doesn't become the joke that wrestling is.

wayne
07-09-2006, 11:18 AM
Phillipinos sure seem to get accused of "cutting-it-up" a lot. I have to believe most of the stories about the Pinoy pro's are either exaggerated or false.

Not too many guys wanted to enter the Hard Times ring game in Sacramento recently, though. "$600 to play against Orcullo and 3 or 4 other Philipinos? No thanks." A lot of the lack of interest was because Orcullo is almost unbeatable lately but still, its almost assumed that the other players will team up against non-phillipinos.

Efren, Jose, Bustamente, Manalo, Lining,etc... are all great players, and I'm sure no dummies about gambling, but I just don't get the sense that they're always looking to pull "moves", split everything up (unless they're travelling together, maybe), or really that willing to dump once they've reached the level they're at now.

Bad rap or am I just being naive?

At Derby City if I remember correctly Efren was playing Luat in the final four. If Efren wins he is in line for a very big bonus for winning the all around. If ever there was a time for Luat to lose this was it. Luat won. If they were really into dumping that would have been the perfect scenario. Seeing that I am a doubtful about any of the dump stories.

Wayne

justabrake
07-09-2006, 11:35 AM
Rick, Don't know why anyone is entirely dismissing the possibility. Didn't KT himself state that the IPT tour would be a combination of reality tv, poker, and professional wrestling? Why then would staged matches, created controversy (male vs female) and scripted rivalries be off limits?

And if it were part of the overall plan, just like the wrestlers, the players simply go along with the script. It's certainly possible. I just hope that aside from bringing more money into the great sport of pool, it doesn't become the joke that wrestling is.

I said it in another post here at AZ that the IPT is a joke and is exactly like wrestling , it's sooo baaad I can't watch it on TV :mad: it's all scripted and played out like an after noon soap , Can someone here tell me what Allen Hopkins thinks of the IPT ?
Steven

RickBrazil
07-09-2006, 12:03 PM
Rick, Don't know why anyone is entirely dismissing the possibility. Didn't KT himself state that the IPT tour would be a combination of reality tv, poker, and professional wrestling? Why then would staged matches, created controversy (male vs female) and scripted rivalries be off limits?

And if it were part of the overall plan, just like the wrestlers, the players simply go along with the script. It's certainly possible. I just hope that aside from bringing more money into the great sport of pool, it doesn't become the joke that wrestling is.

Thanks Jimmy, :cool:
Again it is just frustrating to think like ("Ohhhhhhhhhhh GEZZ, even I could not have missed that shot...") I dont have favorites; like i said before, I admire then, envy, and wish could be up there playing w/such highly skilled killers sharks in that small pool (Society).

Now for Mr.Ted "knows it all" Kaufman, Take a ZANEX !!!, relax... :D

RickBrazil
07-09-2006, 12:20 PM
[QUOTE=jjinfla]Are you insinuating that Manalo, Bustamante and Reyes would conspire to make the most money out of the IPT? That if given a choice Reyes would be the one to play Mikey? And it was a three way split?

C,mon, I am ashamed at you that anyone in the pool fraternity would even think such a thing could happen. Especially coming from the Philipines where the average yearly salary is $800.

JAKE,I perssonally am very hohorable too,I NEVER SPLIT A POT, and I NEVER LIE EITHER, Ok maybe one or two pots; No hold'on , don't think I split over 45 POTS; ok anyway Im sure I havent split over 100 of em; no wait ahhhhh never mind my memory is failing me up, What were we talking abbout anyway ??????????????:rolleyes:

unknownpro
07-09-2006, 12:52 PM
[QUOTE=jjinfla]Are you insinuating that Manalo, Bustamante and Reyes would conspire to make the most money out of the IPT? That if given a choice Reyes would be the one to play Mikey? And it was a three way split?

C,mon, I am ashamed at you that anyone in the pool fraternity would even think such a thing could happen. Especially coming from the Philipines where the average yearly salary is $800.

JAKE,I perssonally am very hohorable too,I NEVER SPLIT A POT, and I NEVER LIE EITHER, Ok maybe one or two pots; No hold'on , don't think I split over 45 POTS; ok anyway Im sure I havent split over 100 of em; no wait ahhhhh never mind my memory is failing me up, What were we talking abbout anyway ??????????????:rolleyes:
LMAO! Sometimes the savers are so complicated they are hard to figure out. And it's hard to split the checks until they're cashed. I've seen well known players sell their spot in a tournament before it even starts. Heard players on this board telling who they're going to beat and then lose to to maximise their split of the money. Been there, done that. They call it professional cause they get paid to play!

Seems like Mike Sigel had quite a saver before the tour was even announced.

unknownpro

onepocketchump
07-09-2006, 02:38 PM
I said it in another post here at AZ that the IPT is a joke and is exactly like wrestling , it's sooo baaad I can't watch it on TV :mad: it's all scripted and played out like an after noon soap , Can someone here tell me what Allen Hopkins thinks of the IPT ?
Steven

Sure. Having had a conversation with Allen about the IPT recently, he is all for it. Allen is very pro-IPT.

John

bandido
07-09-2006, 09:34 PM
Rick, Don't know why anyone is entirely dismissing the possibility. Didn't KT himself state that the IPT tour would be a combination of reality tv, poker, and professional wrestling? Why then would staged matches, created controversy (male vs female) and scripted rivalries be off limits?

And if it were part of the overall plan, just like the wrestlers, the players simply go along with the script. It's certainly possible. I just hope that aside from bringing more money into the great sport of pool, it doesn't become the joke that wrestling is.

Possibility. Specially if you start tieing up other factors like the sale of part of IPT to an Asian party, entry fees not adding up to cover prize money, on-line betting stations starting to open lines for IPT matches...
I think that what they're doing is something like horse racing and the main stops are the derbys while the qualifiers are minor races. Full IPT pro status is culled as this are suppose to be the thoroughbreds.

Entry fee earnings nor corporate sponsorship is not going to be the money-makers, on-line betting is. Kevin bankrolls it to get it off the ground, provides live coverage then ties-up with an entity that's situated in a country that's liberal with gambling.

Grilled Cheese
07-10-2006, 12:40 AM
Sure. Having had a conversation with Allen about the IPT recently, he is all for it. Allen is very pro-IPT.

John

Why do people wonder what IPT Pro's think about the IPT? Doesn't make sense.

Use a little common sense. The 150 IPT Pros (vast majority of whom were picked) will be playing for more money than they ever had a chance to. Just for showing up at the Venetian you get $2,000. That's more than what MOST tournaments pay for 1st place. Heck, the U.S. Open paid how much for 9th place? $3,500. IPT will pay out $30,000 for 7th-18th. From what I understand, after 2006 is over, the top 100 get $100,000!


Given that, I seriously, seriously doubt there will be a single bad-mouther among the IPT Pros or even the qualified players for that matter. Would you PUBLICLY bad mouth a new employer who just hired you for 10x the amount of money you previously could make?


The pool world has been so down and out, with pathetic prize money, lousy tournaments, no sponsorship, ...these pros will not bite the hand that feeds them. They are, and will continue to sing the praise of the IPT - even if it is short-lived.


Heh, there's quite a few older players kicking themselves that they didn't keep up with their game more. The "buzz" tells me that many of these guys are frantically training for the IPT. I'm calling it training because they're taking it more seriously than practicing.


I'm curious to see the game-face on the 200 players at the Venetian in a couple of weeks when I'm there. It should be intense. You've got old-timers who want a piece of the pie for a lifetime of pool. You have the touring pro's who are hungry to make some real money and get better exposure. You've got the lesser-knowns and unproven already on the tour that will be fighting tooth and nail to keep their tour cards...And finally, you've got the qualifiers that will battle hard to gain as many points/dollars as they can to try and secure a place on the tour.

It will be insane. I expect players to get quite emotional. KOTH wasn't the real deal - this IS.

KT said he's commited for all of 2007. Getting a tourcard isn't only the $100,000, it's a ticket to 11 or so tournaments that PAY you to show up...

memikey
07-10-2006, 01:45 AM
......Entry fee earnings nor corporate sponsorship is not going to be the money-makers, on-line betting is. Kevin bankrolls it to get it off the ground, provides live coverage then ties-up with an entity that's situated in a country that's liberal with gambling.

No existing online gambling firm in any liberal country would need to 'tie-up' with Kevin or pay either him or the IPT one bare cent in order to be able take online bets on IPT events.Their share of the IPT betting turnover and their profitability would be almost entirely dependent on the competitiveness of their IPT odds compared to all other online gambling firms in much the same way as it is in the soccer,nfl,baseball,golf and horse racing markets.The same would apply to any new online gambling firm,even if Kevin owned it.

So unless you're suggesting that Kevin would make money by coming to some arrangement with an online gambling firm or individual to manipulate betting on IPT events that Kevin has the power and the willingness to "fix" I can't think what you're getting at in respect of the money making potential for him in the betting field.

Can you give some further clue?

bandido
07-10-2006, 04:15 AM
No existing online gambling firm in any liberal country would need to 'tie-up' with Kevin or pay either him or the IPT one bare cent in order to be able take online bets on IPT events.Their share of the IPT betting turnover and their profitability would be almost entirely dependent on the competitiveness of their IPT odds compared to all other online gambling firms in much the same way as it is in the soccer,nfl,baseball,golf and horse racing markets.The same would apply to any new online gambling firm,even if Kevin owned it.

So unless you're suggesting that Kevin would make money by coming to some arrangement with an online gambling firm or individual to manipulate betting on IPT events that Kevin has the power and the willingness to "fix" I can't think what you're getting at in respect of the money making potential for him in the betting field.

Can you give some further clue?
Are you saying that these on-line gaming firms can just make money off of somebody's event without paying a fee?

memikey
07-10-2006, 05:13 AM
Are you saying that these on-line gaming firms can just make money off of somebody's event without paying a fee?

Yes that's what I'm saying.I can't think of any circumstances where any online sports betting bookmaker would have to pay any fee to IPT for offering odds to the public about runners in IPT events.

Depending upon the country in which they are registered etc there would be the usual company licensing fees and possibly some taxes on their profits to pay to the Govt concerned but absolutely nothing would be paid to IPT.Why should there be,it's got nothing to do with IPT? Online firms run books on such things as there being snowfall on Xmas day or who will win a Presidential election,who do you think would get a fee from them for that?

Theoretically IPT might be able to charge some kind of a concession fee to any betting firm who wanted to run an exclusive cash betting booth for the use of spectators at the venue where each IPT tournament was being held,assuming the country concerned's gaming laws allowed such betting,but the fee concerned would be peanuts and even that booth wouldn't take much money in bets if there were a number of online firms offering better odds.

Blue_chalk
07-10-2006, 05:42 AM
Rick, Don't know why anyone is entirely dismissing the possibility. Didn't KT himself state that the IPT tour would be a combination of reality tv, poker, and professional wrestling? Why then would staged matches, created controversy (male vs female) and scripted rivalries be off limits?

And if it were part of the overall plan, just like the wrestlers, the players simply go along with the script. It's certainly possible. I just hope that aside from bringing more money into the great sport of pool, it doesn't become the joke that wrestling is.

I don't think anyone felt they needed a saver in the KOH. Lots of money to go around AND any one of them would have beat Siegel. Bustamante got $70,000 and Manalo got $60,000! Why would you need a saver? Archer got $50,000 for 5th place! The last place person only got $30,000, hardly worth even playing for.

Come to think about it, you guys might be right? Archer was up two games in his elimination match with Manalo. I'm sure that Archer, knowing he had NO chance to beat Manalo split the pot for that match. This assured him another $5,000. Here's how I can tell: right before shooting the eight ball that would have put him up three games, Archer touched his nose and winked at Manalo. Then while shooting the eight ball made the cueball scratch two rails on purpose! This way Manalo was only down one game then instead of three! Manalo could then come back, beat him and cut up the pot with Efren and Bustamante. BUT at least he (Archer) got another $5,000 out of it. It's GENIOUS! :eek: Bustamente (one of the best breakers in the world) touched his nose, winked at Efren and purposefully blasted the balls wide open (several times) but intentionally didn't pocket any off the break. THIS is how he dumped to Reyes. BRILLIANT! :eek:

Get real. Manalo lost because he was playing out of his head and then when it was crunch time...choked. Of course, it's not all your fault that you don't know these things because you never get to see them. All they showed on tv was usually the hill game. (Closed circuit message to the IPT: In order to avoid these kinds of problems, if you are only going to show the deciding game...it might be a good idea to give at least a brief synopsis as to how the match ended up the way it did.)

When the lower class of players come in, could there be dumping, etc? Absolutley. Any thoughts that this is what happened in KOH is just crazy!

bandido
07-10-2006, 05:48 AM
Yes that's what I'm saying.I can't think of any circumstances where any online sports betting bookmaker would have to pay any fee to IPT for offering odds to the public about runners in IPT events.

Depending upon the country in which they are registered etc there would be the usual company licensing fees and possibly some taxes on their profits to pay to the Govt concerned but absolutely nothing would be paid to IPT.Why should there be,it's got nothing to do with IPT? Online firms run books on such things as there being snowfall on Xmas day or who will win a Presidential election,who do you think would get a fee from them for that?

Theoretically IPT might be able to charge some kind of a concession fee to any betting firm who wanted to run an exclusive cash betting booth for the use of spectators at the venue where each IPT tournament was being held,assuming the country concerned's gaming laws allowed such betting,but the fee concerned would be peanuts and even that booth wouldn't take much money in bets if there were a number of online firms offering better odds.
:D I guess it's going to be labeled as "sponsorship fee" in the USA as it was when "online gambling in pool" was introduced in the WPC. Remember StanJames.com, BetFair.com, etc. banners or as main sponsors? The problem encountered with that is that the tournament prize money was still low that "dumps" occured which netted some players higher pay-offs than the prize money. I read in a post in one of the forums that one player drove around in a Porshe after the tourney.

Snowfall on X'mas day or the Presidential election outcome are just fillers to bring additional income or entice new-comers or to maintain regular customers. IPT events are going to be regular events with plans of live TV coverage. Don't tell me that this doesn't up IPT's bargaining power.

Tell me then how they can maintain the IPT tour, advertisers' fees? KT probably needs the tax break, advertising expense, for his other businesses. But why lose money when you can make some instead?

HouseMan
07-10-2006, 06:01 AM
Get real. Manalo lost because he was playing out of his head and then when it was crunch time...choked. Of course, it's not all your fault that you don't know these things because you never get to see them. All they showed on tv was usually the hill game. (Closed circuit message to the IPT: In order to avoid these kinds of problems, if you are only going to show the deciding game...it might be a good idea to give at least a brief synopsis as to how the match ended up the way it did.)


You tell em Blue Chalk! This guy Bandido has no idea what he is talking about. LOL Unless he was there you see, hmmm, maybe he was and you have no idea what you are talking about. Hey Blue Chalk, who is this Bandido guy anyway? lol

HouseMan
07-10-2006, 06:23 AM
Hmmm. I didn't see anyone wearing a name tag with the name Bandido there. ;) The funny thing is that I am not even THAT sold on the IPT. It just amazes me the lengths that some will go to try to show the IPT as being evil. :confused:

He doesn't need a name tag. Everyone knows who he is...

bandido
07-10-2006, 06:24 AM
Hey guys, the main gist of the exchange was "How the IPT will be financed" so it stays afloat since just the Qualifier fees don't add up to the millions in prize money. I was headed more towards the possibility of a tie-up with a gaming outfit for percentage of the gaming profit. I'm sure that you're all knowledgeable on how it goes in the US but how it goes in Asia is another story. Not talking about rigged or rigging matches. And yes, ..........And no, I am not bashing the IPT. And I'm not against gambling. I just go by post contents and not the poster.

bandido
07-10-2006, 06:42 AM
I don't think that I hijacked the thread. The thread was about Manalo dumping and somebody tied that up to KT's speech about reality TV and "controlled" match outcome. I think that the thread just progressed to where its at. You guys on the other hand responded to the poster and resorted to making fun of as your response. Read the whole thread again and tell me where I made it come out as a gripe against the IPT.

Respond to the message of the post (check too how the discussion got to this point) and not the poster.

bandido
07-10-2006, 07:01 AM
That's ok, I guess you mis-quoted me then. I was surprised that people turned to poking fun at me, Bandido, instead of responding to the post content. And no I don't have a particular history here, just somebody who joins discussions whenever I can.

bandido
07-10-2006, 07:04 AM
You tell em Blue Chalk! This guy Bandido has no idea what he is talking about. LOL Unless he was there you see, hmmm, maybe he was and you have no idea what you are talking about. Hey Blue Chalk, who is this Bandido guy anyway? lol

LOL! Not to worry Blue_Chalk I understand where you're coming from.:)

HouseMan
07-10-2006, 07:20 AM
LOL! Not to worry Blue_Chalk I understand where you're coming from.:)

My point was Bandido has been around for a long time and everyone knows who he is. Blue_Chalk has been here for a few days. That doesn't make his post invalid, it just makes more of a grain of salt type of thing. I'll keep my cynicism to myself next time.

bandido
07-10-2006, 07:37 AM
My point was Bandido has been around for a long time and everyone knows who he is. Blue_Chalk has been here for a few days. That doesn't make his post invalid, it just makes more of a grain of salt type of thing. I'll keep my cynicism to myself next time.
Oh it is valid HM but he accidentally quoted part of my post where the main gist was about how IPT "might" be financed without resorting to "controlled" matches.

Blue_chalk
07-10-2006, 07:41 AM
Oh it is valid HM but he accidentally quoted part of my post where the main gist was about how IPT "might" be financed without resorting to "controlled" matches.

Again, sorry for the confusion or if anyone was insulted. Can we just delete the posts where all this happened? Just because it was a misunderstanding?

My point was Bandido has been around for a long time and everyone knows who he is. Blue_Chalk has been here for a few days. That doesn't make his post invalid, it just makes more of a grain of salt type of thing. I'll keep my cynicism to myself next time.

You should take any anonymous posters comments with a grain of salt. The only thing I have to say is that I was there and this IS what happened. I'm just sorry I got caught up in it. Ask anyone who was there what happened. Not only was I there but you might say that I had a catbird seat.

bandido
07-10-2006, 07:49 AM
I'm just sorry I got caught up in it. Ask anyone who was there what happened. Not only was I there but you might say that I had a catbird seat.
Please don't be, you were right to say that Marlon didn't dump and I agree with you (see my first post in this thread). Unfortunately the thread progressed to how "controlled" matches can be avoided. And it was targetted at where an order to "control" a match can come from.

Blue_chalk
07-10-2006, 08:03 AM
Please don't be, you were right to say that Marlon didn't dump and I agree with you (see my first post in this thread). Unfortunately the thread progressed to how "controlled" matches can be avoided. And it was targetted at where an order to "control" a match can come from.

I fell victim to not reading the thread thoroughly enough.

If someone wanted to fix the outcome, the players wouldn't even need to necessarily be involved. If they really wanted match fixing, all they would have to do is manipulate the brackets in just the right way. You could skew the bet toward a particular player to have a high place finish. If you wanted one guy to win, put him in a creampuff bracket and the other top players against each other. In a small number of player format like the KOH was, it would have been very easy to engineer matches.

Hopefully, it will never happen. I'm not sure there is a way to ever completely avoid it. One thing I know for sure is that the IPT has threatened to ban any player or anyone who is caught working out deals.

memikey
07-10-2006, 08:45 AM
Sorry guys but there seems to be a fair bit of nonsense being bounced around here.

As regards running an online book on IPT events,unless online sports betting firms have overnight become fairy godmothers while I wasn't looking,no online sports betting firm is going to pay Kevin Trudeau or IPT one cent to do something that they can routinely do without his agreement or say so.Dozens of them will open a book on IPT events if they want to and there's not a blind thing that Kevin Trudeau can do about it.Trudeau could bring nothing to that party to bargain with.

All the major online bookmakers who open a book on IPT events will compete with each other to attract punters solely on the basis of the odds they offer and the efficiency of the service they provide,just as they already do on various other sports betting markets (without paying the organisers of those sports any fees or commissions).The expenditure of unecessary commissions to anyone would only erode the margins they have to work to in order to have a balanced book and would eventually impact on the market competitiveness of their odds by comparison with the other firms who are not paying such commissions.

Of course there may be online gambling firms interested in sponsoring the tour or individual events for advertising purposes but they are effectively no different from any other commercial corporate sponsor or advertiser in that respect.They would pay a reasonable fee for the advertising exposure they get.

The notion that any online bookmaker would ever pay IPT a percentage of their online betting income is fundamentally flawed in concept and accordingly the only polite thing that could be said about conspiracy theories which speculate that this is a significant part of Kevin Trudeaus IPT funding strategy is that they are very far fetched.

bandido
07-10-2006, 10:18 AM
Unfortunately, I failed to direct you to the thread about KT selling part of IPT to an Asian firm. This tells me that the target is the Asians' love for gambling and pool. Gambling is big business here and a good example is the $B profit of the HK Horse Racing.

memikey
07-10-2006, 02:09 PM
Unfortunately, I failed to direct you to the thread about KT selling part of IPT to an Asian firm. This tells me that the target is the Asians' love for gambling and pool. Gambling is big business here and a good example is the $B profit of the HK Horse Racing.

Edwin,you can safely assume from my location that I am more than well aware of Asians love of gambling and that I am (or more accurately used to be) an inveterate gambler myself.HK horse racing is a completely different scenario.Online gambling firms,carefully structured companies usually registered in countries with favourable regulations,usually do not have to pay a single cent to the industries they are taking bets on.

Gambling is huge in Asia I completely agree.....but it doesn't alter the fact that there is no logical way whatsoever that the present owner or indeed any future owner of IPT can realistically expect to benefit financially directly from the pool betting turnover of any online gambling firm anywhere in the world.......for the reasons I have already explained.

The gambling market on IPT events might turn out to be very big.On soccer the sums staked online are hundreds of millions every year.....but not a penny of that money goes to the soccer clubs or the league associations that punters are betting on and similarly there is no earthly reason to expect that a single cent of money staked on pool bets online should or would go to the IPT,not now,not ever:)

For many disparate reasons the IPT may or may not be an attractive proposition for an Asian or Euro buyer,frankly I wouldn't know......but I do know that any buyer anywhere would not be buying it on the strength of any anticipated future payments coming to him from the turnover of online gambling firms on IPT betting........unless it was in return for 'fixing' the results of matches:p

bandido
07-10-2006, 09:09 PM
Thank you for sharing all that knowledge mimikey. Somehow I fail to explain how I see how IPT and Asian mainstream gambling can be connected without getting into details that I really think that I don't have the liberty to discuss or still lack the finer details that I'm not privy to. I'll just have to wait and see for now.

If it happens then I'll be in line to apply for an off-site (off-track) betting station or two.:)

onepocketchump
07-10-2006, 10:23 PM
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The gambling market on IPT events might turn out to be very big.On soccer the sums staked online are hundreds of millions every year.....but not a penny of that money goes to the soccer clubs or the league associations that punters are betting on and similarly there is no earthly reason to expect that a single cent of money staked on pool bets online should or would go to the IPT,not now,not ever:)



One huge reason why the IPT should NOT be involved in the gambling is the conflict of interest. I would NEVER bet a nickel if I found out the IPT was getting kickbacks from the action. I couldn't help but think the the temptation to fix matches would be too strong.

The betting houses better make it pari-mutuel to stop match fixing. When all the money in the pool comes from the customers and not from the house it will cut down on the dumping tremendously.

John

Banker Burt
07-10-2006, 10:50 PM
One huge reason why the IPT should NOT be involved in the gambling is the conflict of interest. I would NEVER bet a nickel if I found out the IPT was getting kickbacks from the action. I couldn't help but think the the temptation to fix matches would be too strong.

The betting houses better make it pari-mutuel to stop match fixing. When all the money in the pool comes from the customers and not from the house it will cut down on the dumping tremendously.

John

There are a few possible scenarios. One, IPT players make deals and quietly do their business. Two, IPT players make deals and get caught.
Three, NO DEALS AT ALL.

The latter being my hope. As desperate a profession as it has been historically for our sport's player, these (now) top representatives of our sport should learn (if not already) that this is their only chance to make it in life.

Also posters, If you accuse one player of making a deal you inadvertently are accusing his or her opponent of the same plight. Remember this is for big money. In other words, just as KT is using our sport to make big money he can cut you out of the action in a heart beat. Especially when he gets the first call from any betting institution questioning the ethical content of his tour/players.

Not to mention what might happen to a player if any of our hard earned dollars are lost and we know of a "Proven throw". The player/s would be done and would probably never walk into another pool room in their life. Wait a minute, if they are dumb enough to throw a match and get caught, they probably would walk into a pool room, but would probably not be able to walk out.

memikey
07-10-2006, 11:36 PM
Thank you for sharing all that knowledge mimikey. Somehow I fail to explain how I see how IPT and Asian mainstream gambling can be connected without getting into details that I really think that I don't have the liberty to discuss or still lack the finer details that I'm not privy to. I'll just have to wait and see for now.

If it happens then I'll be in line to apply for an off-site (off-track) betting station or two.:)

....and I'd congratulate you and wish you success with that:)

I suspect that I know what you mean Edwin but that is clearly not "online" gambling and all my comments were made only in response to the issue of "online" gambling firms which was the type of gambling which was raised in this forum in the context of IPT making money out of "online" gambling.

Of course there are other more traditional ways of placing bets that may be more conducive to pieces of the action being shared around,especially in Asia, that is obviously taken as clearly understood by everyone and I'd be the last to deny that:D

bandido
07-10-2006, 11:43 PM
....and I'd congratulate you and wish you success with that:)

I suspect that I know what you mean Edwin but that is clearly not "online" gambling and all my comments were made only in response to the issue of "online" gambling firms which was the type of gambling which was raised in this forum in the context of IPT making money out of "online" gambling.

Of course there are other more traditional ways of placing bets that may be more conducive to pieces of the action being shared around,especially in Asia, that is obviously taken as clearly understood by everyone and I'd be the last to deny that:D
Sorry, I should have stuck to on-SITE/off-SITE betting stations. Brain went too fast when off-site possibilities were thought of. May be the reason for mentioning on-line.

Kid Dynomite
07-13-2006, 10:45 AM
One huge reason why the IPT should NOT be involved in the gambling is the conflict of interest. I would NEVER bet a nickel if I found out the IPT was getting kickbacks from the action. I couldn't help but think the the temptation to fix matches would be too strong.

The betting houses better make it pari-mutuel to stop match fixing. When all the money in the pool comes from the customers and not from the house it will cut down on the dumping tremendously.

John

I must interject here. You are telling me the notion or IDEA of fixing a sporting event is beyond your comprehension? Examples are: The world Series and the Black Sox scandal. Another example: Horse Racing has a notorious past of questionable VICTORIES.

I have seen or even heard of two players at major events set up to play one another while there buddy is in the stands signaling who will win. So, they can suck the money out of the pockets of the fans in the stands. The old two brothers and a stranger move but the brothers are playing one another and the stranger is in the stands betting any unsuspecting fan with big pockets.

Bandindo is suggesting a much larger scale, much similar to horse racing and prize fighting. The odds makers and HOUSE know who they make the most money with based on the out come and like DON KING says "Only in America" With that knowledge you do not think they are pushing one way or another to make the most money possible? Plus, think how much is at stake and what little is required to quarantee the out come they want. Lets face facts these quys are broke!!!!!!!!!!

Additionally, the top 150 players are under CONTRACT a very important point. So, anything is possible!!! But, I do understand both sides of this argueement. We must wait and see!!!

Sincerely,
Kid Dynomite