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AzHousePro
05-25-2003, 03:18 PM
Well, here is an interesting one.

The US Open is not a UPA sanctioned tournament. The UPA contract calls for UPA members to only play in UPA santioned events.

Earl's contract with one of his sponsors says he must play in the US Open each year.

So, how does that one work?

Mike

AzHousePro
05-25-2003, 04:44 PM
Yes, I know all about that situation. What I am thinking about is how Earl could ever rejoin the UPA in an attempt to unify the male pros. I don't think he can do that, if the UPA's dealings with Barry and the US Open put Earl in jeapardy of getting in trouble with his sponsors.

Mike

jjinfla
05-25-2003, 05:34 PM
Mike, if I understand you, what you are saying is that one of the stipulations in the Contract that Earl signed with his sponsor is that he must play in the US Open. And one of the stipulations of the US Open being sanctioned by the UPA is that ALL members in the tournament being sanctioned must be members of the UPA. And doesn't Earl get a free guaranteed entry because he won it? And it is very doubtful that the UPA will allow Earl to re-join them since they actually kicked him out. And I doubt that Earl wants to join them anyway. Now Cuetec being a respected company wants Earl to represent them at the US Open because they know that he is good for their image and their company. I received an e-mail last year from that company that sponsors CW informing me that they were not at all interested in the US Open. That was their response to my asking them how can they sponsor someone who was doing so much harm to the US Open. (In my opinion). So Mike, what does Barry say is the reason the US Open is not sanctioned by the UPA. Maybe it is just time for promoters to just say screw the UPA and the players who support it. Here is the tournament, these are the rules you play by. You want to play, come. You don't, stay home. And the rest of us should boycot CW's sponsors if CW continues with this fiasco. Jake

AzHousePro
05-25-2003, 06:33 PM
Harry, I am real curious what you mean with this comment. Who is involved in money grabbing schemes?

Mike

Originally posted by Gremlin
As you can see the promoters are going to do what they want anyway. Witness the Big Apple Tournament, The Windy City Open on and on. Face it. No one in there right mind outside the pool industry is going to put a nickel into people who are all on there own little money grabbing scheme.

Bob Romano
05-25-2003, 06:52 PM
Harry, I am also interested in what you mean by "money grabbing scheme"

Bob Romano, Promoter of the Windy City Open

Skeezicks
05-25-2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Gremlin
Face it. No one in there right mind outside the pool industry is going to put a nickel into people who are all on there own little money grabbing scheme. Like the promoters?

bruin70
05-25-2003, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by AzHousePro
Harry, I am real curious what you mean with this comment. Who is involved in money grabbing schemes?

Mike

mike, my take on H's statement was that he meant pool is splintered with indivisual tournaments around the country,,,,no unity of effort to see the industry grow.

rather, like players,,, the promoters are shortsighted and only looking to promote their own little effort(money grabbing schemes).

SLIGHTLY over the top statement, maybe, but look at the problems williams is facing and will face when trying to get organizers to agree to his/players terms. one organizer is fighting back (who do you think YOU are to tell us what to do), in order to keep things his way.

AzHousePro
05-25-2003, 08:37 PM
Still not sure why moving an event from an area where the promoters could get no support to an area where the promoters were able to get support is money grabbing.

These people are not making a killing off of running tournaments. They are rounding up the added money from sponsors, working with the venue and the hotels, and trying to put on an event that will bring in a fair amount of fans.

Most of the promoters are doing it for a simple love of the game.

The men's game has been splintered for quite some time. I love the idea of a unified body that can represent the men with the men's best interests in mind. I just don't think it is being done the right way.

Mike

AzHousePro
05-25-2003, 10:18 PM
If promoters were getting rich from running pool tournaments, don't you think there would be a whole lot more of them going on out there? How exactly are these promoters getting rich?

And why exactly is it such a bad thing that the Capital City event had to move to Philly? Because it won't be held near the Ramada?

Mike

AzHousePro
05-25-2003, 10:20 PM
By the way, BD simply stated that I received more than 2 votes as someone with influence in the billiard world. As the only webmaster included in that list, I took it as a large compliment.

Believe me though, if I had known years ago about all the political crap involved in this game, I would have never gotten involved.

Mike

MSB Promotions
05-26-2003, 12:21 PM
I have to agree with Mike that if promoters were making a killing on events, there would be an event held every week.

How many time have we seen a "First Annual..." event, but never see another?

Harry, if it's so easy to make a living promoting events, I suggest you try it and then come back to this board and talk about how much money you've walked away with.

Everyone needs to work together to make pool better. Not just the promoters, but the fans, the players, the pool organization, the billiard industry in general.

9balllvr
05-26-2003, 03:26 PM
I have to agree with the last post...I don't believe the events make lots of money either....they ARE for the players. I believe pool has gotten more publicity in the past year then ever before because of the televised events. Oh and Gremlin, it doesn't matter who you cheer for.....the women the men, they are all key factors in the sport. We all have our favorites, the difference is that we don't plug the boards with updates on them.

9balllvr
05-26-2003, 06:51 PM
For the record, I practice quite often and feel I have a strong game coming your way one day soon.....it is my dream to play professionally as well.....the only pool player I will be sponsoring is myself......I have played in events with Ms. Ellerby and although thought she had a strong game, her personality has lots to be desired.....I wish you both the best.....

jjinfla
05-26-2003, 06:57 PM
Aw Harry, that ain't entirely true. I think you will be doing a little bit of supporting men's pool this weekend.

Tom In Cincy
05-26-2003, 07:14 PM
Barry Berhman will have completed his sentence (serving on the weekends) by my calculations, one week prior to the start of the US Open.

The US Open ticket sales started May 1st. Looks like there have already been some sales so far, according to the seating chart. BTW, I already ordered my tickets.

If the UPA and Barry Berhman do not work together to get this tournament sanctioned, who's loss would it be? How many pros will not show up? If last year was any indication, some fans were referring to the tournament as the US Open Lite. (for the lack of a lot of CW's buddies not showing up)

I don't think the UPA will be strong enough by September to make any great impact on the attendance of the US Open. Only Barry Berhman will be able to influence this year's events success. Barry will need more help than ever. Maybe this year he will have to cut back on a lot of extras and eat a little piece of HUMBLE pie.

My opinion..

9balllvr
05-26-2003, 08:02 PM
If you read my post it said I have played in events WITH her not AGAINST her....and in pool you don't play the person anyway, you play the table.....you of course have your opinion as do I, so we will call it a draw......as it seems both of us are quite hard headed......also, I did not attack anyone, simply stated what I have witnessed. Thank you for the information about the Hunter, but I am quite aware of the players, the event and others just like it.

Adanac67
05-26-2003, 11:17 PM
In order to make sure that ALL of the best players in 9-ball are at the US Open, Karen Corr and Allison Fisher need to be added to the roster. Come on Barry, do the right thing.

AzHousePro
05-26-2003, 11:47 PM
Harry, both Chucklez and I keep a pretty keen eye on the forums and I did not see anything wrong with 9balllvr's post. I have known Sarah for quite some time, and I have always considered her a friend. She knows that some of the players have problems with the way she go about playing the game. As far as that goes, Sarah and I have spoke about it a few times. I am not sure that there is anything that can be done about it.

As for your comment about my inclusion on the BD poll being a 'token', are you saying that you don't believe I was mentioned and that BD simply threw my name in as a gesture? I don't buy that for a second. A magazine that writes an article once a year about the best billiard sites on the net and barely mentions AzB, would have no reason to throw me a bone like that.

Mike

Joe Mama
05-27-2003, 12:31 AM
Harry,
Perhaps this is off the topic, but you are very wrong about the Capital City Classic. I am not from Philadelphia, but I have stayed in several hotels throughout the city and the Adam's Mark is by no means a "fleabag hotel". I believe that it is actually a four star hotel with a four-star restaurant on the top floor. I imagine that $120 is a pretty reasonable price for the accomodations. Perhaps you don't have the money to spend for the hotel, but I would hope that you will
refrain from spreading the falsehoods about the host hotel. If you want to stay in a hotel that charges both nightly AND hourly, be my guest...

Joe Mama

jjinfla
05-27-2003, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by Tom In Cincy
[If the UPA and Barry Berhman do not work together to get this tournament sanctioned, who's loss would it be? How many pros will not show up? If last year was any indication, some fans were referring to the tournament as the US Open Lite. (for the lack of a lot of CW's buddies not showing up)

I don't think the UPA will be strong enough by September to make any great impact on the attendance of the US Open. Only Barry Berhman will be able to influence this year's events success. .

My opinion.. [/B]

It seems that the US Open and the UPA got themselves into a catch-22.

To be sanctioned ALL players must be members of the UPA.

Earl Strickland is not a member of the UPA and most likely the UPA will not allow him to re-join.

Since Earl Strickland is a former winner of the US Open he gets a paid entry to the US Open.

Earl is committed, by contract with his sponsor, to play in the US Open.

Will the UPA relent and give Barry an exception in Earl's case?

Will Earl make an attempt to re-join the UPA?

Will the UPA allow Earl to re-join?

Or, is there some other reason that the US Open is not sanctioned? Neither Barry nor Charlie seem to want to explain why it is not sanctioned.

All in all it is just another black eye for pool.

Stay tuned for further episodes of the battle of the egos.

Jake

Double D
05-27-2003, 12:03 PM
How can Karen play in Joss Tour events if the UPA contract mirrors the WPBA contract? Is it easier to get permission to play in unsanctioned events easier for the women??? Makes it seem to me that either the contract isn't as restrictive as it seems, or the fact that the governing body of womens pool is pretty easy going as far as letting women play in events that aren't sanctioned. If it is the later, what are the odds that CW will allow people to go play that easily? Or am I just being stupid and not understanding?;)

jjinfla
05-27-2003, 01:27 PM
Gee, evidently the Joss tour must get special dispensation from the pope since several of the men who played in it belong to the UPA. So how does the UPA decide which tournaments require sanctioning? I seem to recall overhearing someone say that last year when several of the women from the WPBA played at Capone's in a tournament run by CW that Rocky had to monetarily compensate the WPBA. Evidently the UPA makes up a new unique contract for each tournament they want to sanction. As is evident from their home page. And it seems that Allen Hopkins got one that pleases him. Maybe the UPA will make up a special contract for the US Open too. Is the UPA attorney doing all this work pro bono? And since precedent is being set in Allen Hopkin's tournament where it is not necessary for players to be members of the UPA maybe Behrman should ask for the same in his contract. Since Mika didn't play in the US Open last year because it was not sanctioned why did he play in the Joss Tournament since it also was not sanctioned. Seems a bit hypocritical on his part. Jake

Ken in CT
05-27-2003, 06:37 PM
I assume that Charlie the Dragon has nothing against the Joss. After all, he has played in it himself (I think it's his only win). The Joss is self-supporting and does not need the touring pros so the UPA is unlikely to succeed in extorting money from the Joss.

The new contract which requires the pros to promise not to play in any unsanctioned tournaments without permission is designed primarily to give Charlie the Dragon the ability to put the squeeze on promoters holding touring pro level tournaments. The contract is not in the interest of the players since it will restrict their ability to make a living. They cannot get by on the one tournament the UPA puts on or the few sanctioned tournaments there are.

Any pro who signs the new contract is cutting his own throat. Charlie the Dragon and his gang of four have gone too far this time. They are working against both the players and the promoters.
Ken in CT

jjinfla
05-28-2003, 07:28 AM
Ken,

Is the tournament that CW is running this weekend in Orlando sanctioned by the UPA? It's not listed one way or the other on the UPA website.

I can't picture what tables the college kids and APA people will play on. I sure would be pissed if I bought VIP seats to watch the pros and come to find out that I was paying to watch unknowns. But then, even Charlie wouldn't do that. But no VIP seat for me this year. Still not even sure if I will drive down there on Saturday. I guess it all depends on how I feel when I wake up Saturday. But I might go just to buy Harry a drink or six. Jake

Ken in CT
05-28-2003, 12:26 PM
Charlie's post in the tournaments section of the forum says "In conjunction with the Pro Event" so there must be one in addition to college and APA. I think it is not UPA sanctioned since it's not on the website and the next event is listed as the Gabriels 9 ball in Las Vegas.

I believe I've been to that room and it is small so I don't see how he can run all those tournaments there.

I've seen nothing anywhere else about this event so its a mystery to me. I hope it's not a long drive for you. I drove there from Holiday once to watch a women's event and left before very long. I went to one of Kennedy's one-day events the next day.
Ken in CT

accdealer
05-29-2003, 01:01 AM
First off, let me state a small disclaimer. I actually have no opinion on the UPA, The US Open, etc. I have met CW, and I thought he was very nice. I also have met Nick Varner, and words cannot describe how nice he is. CW is a very good player, and we all know how great of a player Nick Varner is at all of the games.

Now, here is something that has been puzzling me since February. At the Trump Marina 10-Ball Challenge, I was told that Mika and Tony Robles were not there because of UPA restrictions. I mean, why else wouldn't they show up to a MAJOR tournament just south of their hometown? So here I am, running through the parking garage to make the players meeting and who do I see in the elevator but CW and Nick Varner? Now why would CW restrict his players from playing in this major event, but actually play in it himself?

Chew on that for a while.

bruin70
05-29-2003, 03:31 AM
accdealer,,,obviously, you were misinformed. you answered your own question.

as for mika, he was in the phillipines on pleasure/business as he has off and on for the past year. he has been digging some business roots into the phillipines because he is very very very well known there.

i don't know about robles however. i can say that many times in the past he has opted to spend time with his son rather than compete.

Vicki
05-29-2003, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by AzHousePro


As for your comment about my inclusion on the BD poll being a 'token', are you saying that you don't believe I was mentioned and that BD simply threw my name in as a gesture? I don't buy that for a second. A magazine that writes an article once a year about the best billiard sites on the net and barely mentions AzB, would have no reason to throw me a bone like that.

Mike

Mike,

You are nobody's token. Not that I need to tell you, but you are by far one of the most respected media personalities in the business.

I think you, and all the other people who promote pool in a positive way, deserve to be able to make a decent living. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how fans of pool get off accusing people of trying to make money - as if it's a bad thing! If someone makes a profit on their event, publication, product or what ever they are accused of being "money grabbing schemers." How ridiculous!

You have my respect for the hard work that you do and the sacrifices you and your family make for us to be able to enjoy AzB!

Vicki

Vicki
05-29-2003, 06:41 AM
Originally posted by AzHousePro
Well, here is an interesting one.

The US Open is not a UPA sanctioned tournament. The UPA contract calls for UPA members to only play in UPA santioned events.

Earl's contract with one of his sponsors says he must play in the US Open each year.

So, how does that one work?

Mike

This thread has gotten extremely off topic. I'll attempt to bring it back to your original question, which has yet to be answered.

To the best of my knowledge, Earl is not a UPA member, so the fact that the US Open is not sanctioned by the UPA will allow him to play in it since you have to be a member of the UPA to play in one of their sanctioned events. If all that is true, and I'm a little foggy on all the in's and out's of the UPA requirements, then all the UPA players will not be at the US Open since they cannot play in any non-UPA sanctioned event without an exemption by the UPA (an exemption I somehow doubt they will offer given the attempted boycott last year). So either there will be very few players at the US Open OR the UPA players will be there and Earl will not - thus causing him to be in violation with his sponsorship agreement.

Right?

I have wondered how this will all playout myself. I am also curious how Matchroom Sports will handle these issues given that thay ADORE Earl in the UK. The Mosconi Cup and the World Championships are going to be affected by these conflicts as well.

Good questions. I hope someone has some answers.

Vicki

AzHousePro
05-29-2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by bruin70
as for mika, he was in the phillipines on pleasure/business as he has off and on for the past year. he has been digging some business roots into the phillipines because he is very very very well known there.

i don't know about robles however. i can say that many times in the past he has opted to spend time with his son rather than compete.

These are exactly what I had heard about Mika and Tony not playing at the Trump event. My understanding was that Mika tried to find some way to change his schedule so that he could go to the Trump event.

As far as the UPA goes, I was told that they had no interested in the Trump event because it was 10-ball.

Mike

DoomCue
05-30-2003, 11:06 AM
I've been lurking for quite some time, and I've got to throw in my $.02 on this.

I'm not sure I understand what all the fuss is about over the UPA. Can anybody possibly argue that the state of men's pool is satisfactory at this point in time? Players aren't happy, promoters aren't happy, and fans aren't happy. Right now, the sport has no direction whatsoever, there is no real governing body, and the players have no future. There are no benefits to being a pro player. There are no health plans, no 401K, no pensions, nothing. All a pro is guaranteed is a chance to have to beat somebody else just as good in order to make just enough money to survive. Obviously, a change must be made in order to garner our sport the attention and monetary awards it deserves. Somebody (Charlie Williams) is trying to do something to organize pool in an attempt to effect some changes, and all anybody can do is ***** about it. Seems to me that people are complaining about the status quo, and then complaining again when somebody wants to change the status quo. There's a saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The corollary is also true - if it's broke, then dammit, fix it. Well, pool is broken, and it needs to be fixed.

A lot of people seem to think that CW is harming the game by trying to get a certain promoter to honor his promises. If I agree to pay you $20 to wash my car, and after you're done, I give you $10, wouldn't you try to seek some course of action to get the other $10 owed to you? What course of action can a pool player take against Barry Behrman? Is there a governing body with which the player can file a grievance? Is there anybody else he can complain to besides other people who got screwed? Yes, I know that Barry did pay up in the end, but what if he didn't? The player just ends up biting the bullet. CW's forming of an organization which represents the players and their interests means using that organization to do just that. It is in the players' best interests to have guaranteed money be exactly that - guaranteed. The game could possibly be harmed short-term, but long-term, it can only get better if the UPA is supported. There's too much short-term thinking, and too much "me, me, me." That type of thinking has destroyed past tours. The men need to put away their selfishness. The women are getting it right, and the UPA is trying to mimic them. The WPBA seems to be a good model to me.

The UPA contract is exactly the same as the WPBA contract, but I don't hear the women players whining about playing in non-sanctioned events. Obviously, the contract isn't as restrictive as some people seem to think (see Grady's rant), since I see women all the time playing in non-WPBA events. The women are doing what's necessary to promote the game, and are willing to do whatever it takes, and they're still able to do the extra things on the side. The men should do the same by forming an organization for the players, by the players, in order to provide some guidance for the sport (see the US Declaration of Independence). This is what CW is trying to do, and I can't see how he can be faulted for it.

As far as having to be a member of the UPA to play in a UPA-sanctioned event, what's the big deal? In golf, you have to earn your tour card in order to play on the tour. On the WPBA tour, you have to earn your way onto the tour. To play in a UPA event, you just have to join the UPA. No qualifiers, no points, just a very small fee ($25/year for membership, or $100/year for your tournament points to count in the standings). Personally, I would rather see the qualifier format for the UPA, but that's just my opinion (as is this long post). Obviously, there are exceptions to the required memberships of these respective organizations (see Annika Sorenstam), so I can't see why Earl wouldn't be allowed to play in UPA events (unless his infamous "charm" gets him into trouble).

These are just my opinions, but I feel like pool seriously needs a change. I'd be willing to bet that most people in the pool world feel the same. Instead of tearing Charlie and the UPA down, I feel he deserves to be lauded for attempting to put together a real unified tour. If it succeeds, then great, pool may get out of the gutter. If he fails, nothing has been lost since pool is already in the gutter. I support CW and the UPA because I feel that the rewards far outweigh the risk, and I would like to see his dreams come to fruition.

bruin70
05-30-2003, 12:25 PM
i happen to agree with you. what they seem to be complaining about, as i see it, is that they don't like the WAY CW is doing things.....as if they have a better idea to implement(see grady's whining post)....as if they feel they are giving up something to the upa(yeah, like what. if you have nothing, there is nothing to give up).

what CW has to face, from all sides, players and promoters, is what they all perceive is an infringement on their fiercely guarded independance. promoters and players have all grown up doing things their own way, which as we know, is the wrong way. they will never come together unless they see something tangible, like donald trump holding up a ten million dollar fund for a men's tour. anything less is too vague and uncertain for them to invest of their "effort".



Originally posted by DoomCue
. Somebody (Charlie Williams) is trying to do something to organize pool in an attempt to effect some changes, and all anybody can do is ***** about it. Seems to me that people are complaining about the status quo, and then complaining again when somebody wants to change the status quo. There's a saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The corollary is also true - if it's broke, then dammit, fix it. Well, pool is broken, and it needs to be fixed.

Blackjack
05-30-2003, 01:45 PM
I tend to agree with you that CW IS doing something. I am glad that somebody is. As a player, I have a different perspective on this issue, as I feel players are being once again used as pawns in an argument between two separate business entitities. This is nothing new in men's professional pool. Personally, my only issue with this whole thing is this:

We are not ready for exclusivity - YET

For 17 years I was out there scraping money up to get from place to place. I did not have the luxuary of a big name sponsor, I was not independently wealthy, and I was not winning major tournaments on a regular basis. I believe that 90% of the UPA players will also fit into that category. Now it would be different if there was a sanctioned tour stop every week of the year, then I could see the argument for playing exclusively in UPA events. But even at 14 events a year (and I believe I am stretching the schedule), the average player might take home (If they are lucky) $200 per event, or $2800. I believe that I am exaggerating that amount as well. Also, it costs money to get to the tournament, and it costs money to get back. I need a room, food, all out of my pocket. As a player that does not have a major sponsorship deal with Predator, Brunswick, JS Sales, etc, I NEED to enter other venus, regardless of what CW thinks about it. Exclusivity might work fine for "maybe" the top 5-7 players. It won't help out anybody else. This was proven in the MPBT when Camel tried the same thing.

I know Charlie is doing his best, and I respect that. But as a player, I am not willing to cut off my nose to spite my face. When the MPBT cut there schedule back 1993, it was also presented to the players as a way to "help out the sport". I am referring to losing tour stops to finance the World Team Billiards fiasco, as well as the costly Worlwide Collectibles Trading Card deal. You should have seen the look on some of the players faces when their slots in the 1993 World Championships were given to some of the visiting European players, many of whom were shooting with snooker cues. Back then I made the decision look out for myself and my interests. Players lack representation. I'm not talking about electing a player rep for the Tour, because players in all shapes and sizes have been pushed around filling those positions.

Way back when, I was involved in the business of professional wrestling. Workers (wrestlers) and referees, and others were not represented at all by anyone. We were constantly being ripped off, taken advatage of, and lied to by promoters, agents, and scam artists. They always knew that they could wave the carrot under our noses, and out of desperation for work, food, and shelter, we would sign the contracts regardless of what they contained. None of us could afford an attorney to review the contract, and the promoters used that to their own advantage. In 1984, Jesse Ventura was the first guy to stand up and demand private, outside representation. Nobody liked it, but slowly but surely, it became the standardized way to do business with signed talent. Pool players should take a long hard look at what Jesse Ventura did and model their representation accordingly. Back in 1980, I was told by a wrestling promoter that "this is just the way it is." 23 years later, its not like that anymore, and it changed because one man had the BB's to stand up and say "enough is enough."

My question to CW is this:

What am I getting out of the disagreement between you and Barry Behrman? I fail to see where this helps a player with the ability to make it past the first round, maybe the second. What are you getting out of this? Good press? Bad Press? Unfair criticism? I understand it is easy to single you out as you have volunteered to keep yourself in the forefront. If the UPA is best thing ever to happen to pool, people will shake your hand and pat you on the back. If the UPA fails, your name will always be associated with it, and people will probably never allow you to live it down. My suggestion is to stop doing the same things over and over expecting different results. Many of us older guys are shaking heads saying, "here we go again."

The US Open is the longest running tournament. Just out of historic value alone, you should work diligently to come to some sort of compromise. The PBA made a major mistake when it ordered its players to cease their participation in the BCA 14.1 US Open. Please, do not make the same type of error.

jjinfla
05-30-2003, 01:52 PM
Doomcue you would give much more credence to your unsolisited testimonial if you would attach your name to it rather than a nom de plume. Otherwise it just sounds like something that CW would have written. And if you read some of the UPA's contract's you will see that now a player they must also sign a contract with the UPA in addition to the small, as you say it, membership fee. Only Hopkins has the contract part excluded from his tournament. What Charlie does not understand is that he is living in Florida which is a right to work state. In other words, unions are not allowed. Of course that does explain all the low salaries the workers here get. LOL. If the UPA had their own set of scheduled tournaments then I could understand them making requirements for their members to play in it. That is what the WPBA does. But to me it appears that the UPA is trying to strong arm independent tournament opperators and make them kow tow to the UPA. Jake

Josh C
05-30-2003, 03:20 PM
Dear Mr. Gremlin,
I have read many of your posts and I am responding to your comment regarding how the tournament promoters make all the money. Since you are such a smart man, and you think you know where all this money is going, I want to know when your tournament is so I can attend. I mean, it makes sense from such a smart man as yourself to cash in on all the big bucks that these promoters are making!

L.S. Dennis
05-30-2003, 06:55 PM
Are there any pro players out there planning to play in the Sands Reno Open this year (next week actually) who are members of the UPA?

Just wondering,

Skeezicks
05-30-2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Blackjack
My question to CW is this: An e-mail would have a better chance of getting a response, imo.

AzHousePro
05-30-2003, 09:33 PM
L.S., I heard that Max Eberle was thinking about trying to head out to Reno after the Florida event.

He isn't a UPA member, but I believe Keith McCready is supposed to be in Reno too.

Mike

Wally in Cincy
05-31-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Vicki

.....I have wondered how this will all playout myself. I am also curious how Matchroom Sports will handle these issues given that thay ADORE Earl in the UK. The Mosconi Cup and the World Championships are going to be affected by these conflicts as well.

Vicki [/B]

Matchroom will do exactly what they want and Earl will be at the Mosconi Cup and the WPC and the WPL. Matchroom doesn't give a rat's ass about Charlie W or the UPA.

bruin70
05-31-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Wally in Cincy
Matchroom will do exactly what they want and Earl will be at the Mosconi Cup and the WPC and the WPL. Matchroom doesn't give a rat's ass about Charlie W or the UPA.

anybody with money can get the ALL pool players to jump through hoops.

and btw,,,when did they start adoring earl? i know they didn't put up with his antics in cardiff....

AzHousePro
05-31-2003, 01:57 PM
They didn't put up with his comments about the jump cue during his match, but they are trying to draw fans to watch the events. They know that Earl draws fans.

Mike

MSB Promotions
05-31-2003, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by jjinfla
If the UPA had their own set of scheduled tournaments then I could understand them making requirements for their members to play in it. That is what the WPBA does. But to me it appears that the UPA is trying to strong arm independent tournament opperators and make them kow tow to the UPA. Jake

I was just saying this last weekend at the Joss Tour Finals. For the UPA to put these requirements on their members, they need to prove to their membership that they can support them by supplying them enough events to make a living.

The UPA either has to lock in enough deals with independent promoters or create their own tournament promotional arm. Either way has it's pro and cons, but as Jake points out the WPBA promotes their own events.

If the UPA created a tournament promotional arm and promoted a dozen events each year, it could be lucrative for the players. If it was lucrative for the players, the UPA could force players to attend their events. They could also open other non-sanctioned events to the membership as long as those events don't conflict with the UPA schedule. This would give the players more earning potential and independent promoters could continue doing their thing.

jjinfla
06-01-2003, 07:52 AM
I was at Charlie's Predator Cup in Orlando yesterday (11:30 am to 12:30am) and it was a well attended event. And everybody was enjoying themselves. The food was great and the fans got to rub elbows with the players. Charlie didn't publicly prohibit the pros from signing cue balls and I didn't pester the pros to sign any, even though I had them with me. I don't know but I doubt that everyone there was a UPA member. Only saw a few UPA patches. The problems with tournaments is that they take too long and the spectators really can't get a good view of the tables. Even front row tickets have to contend with the players sitting of front of them. Maybe in the future a pool room will be designed with collapsible bleacher seats all around the arena. Then if they start drawing fans the pros can get a cut of the attendance in addition to prize winnings. Then the UPA will have a valid reason for getting everyone to join them. I know the players don't like it but I would suggest that they would cut the games, make it a race to 5 or 6 on the winners side and 3 or 4 on the losers side with alternate breaks. That would draw the fans (money). A person can go and spend a few hours at a tournament and get to see a bunch of good games. One thing for sure, the way it is run right now is not working. It just has to be speeded up. And Sarah Ellerby sure proved that she is no fluke and is a force to be reckoned with. But it amazes me that she got this far in pool with such a pitifull break. She just has no chance of a break and run if she can't make a ball on the break. She needs a lot of work there. But she beat Ray Martin and had Tommy Kennedy on the ropes 4-zip. Tommy lost his famous smile, must have been praying to the Lord for Divine guidance, it worked and he came back to win 9-6. No one seemed to mind that there was no smoking in the arena nor in the section of the pool room that is carpeted. I would like to go back today but 13 hours is about all I can take, plus a 3 hour round trip. Jake~~~I wonder if the pros have the vision to picture themselves playing in an arena surrounded by 1,000 cheering fans who have paid an average of $25 and the pros are getting a cut of the attendance, food/drink sales, autograph/souvenir sales. A $500 to $1,000 check just for showing up.

Allen
06-02-2003, 06:06 PM
Whether you like him or hate him Earl Strickland is one of the best pool players in the history of billiards. He deserves the respect of his past accomplishments and after all these years is still a reigning pro.

We all have our own personalities as demonstrated by this forum. Earl has a right to be Earl. Like him, love him or hate him he is a remarkable player and will go down in the history books for his achievements, as some of these "so called" professionals will only have their 15 minutes of fame!

By the sounds of this post over the past week or so, the UPA is foolish to run off players and promoters! Compromises must be made to accommodate everyone involved. The game of billiards already has a "questionable" reputation, why ruin the name more with bad karma.

Once they stop fighting among themselves, this situation could be worked out with the correct professionals redoing the guidelines.

L.S. Dennis
06-02-2003, 09:49 PM
Here's a recent e-mail I recieved from the UPA that should help clear up some of this confusion:

Hello Dennis,

The UPA has an open waiver for all events thus allowing individual players to participate in any event they so choose. The only event that a UPA Touring Pro would not have permission to participate in would be a specific event that was "officially" boycotted by the UPA. Currently there are no such events and hopefully this occurance will never become an actual reality.

Thank you, please let me know if I can be of further assistance,

Frank Alvarez III
UPA Rep/Touring

AzHousePro
06-02-2003, 11:04 PM
I had the chance to meet Frank at the BCA event in Vegas and he is a true class act. We talked for quite some time about the whole UPA situation. He may not have agreed with things I had to say, but he was very patient and listened to me each time I had something to say.

Mike

jjinfla
06-03-2003, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by L.S. Dennis
Here's a recent e-mail I recieved from the UPA that should help clear up some of this confusion:

Hello Dennis,

The UPA has an open waiver for all events thus allowing individual players to participate in any event they so choose. The only event that a UPA Touring Pro would not have permission to participate in would be a specific event that was "officially" boycotted by the UPA. Currently there are no such events and hopefully this occurance will never become an actual reality.

Thank you, please let me know if I can be of further assistance,

Frank Alvarez III
UPA Rep/Touring

This makes no sense at all. You eaither have a waiver or you don't have a waiver. If Archer goes in and gets a waiver for the US Open today and next week the UPA decides to boycott the US Open would Archer's waiver be any good? If yes, then I would suggest that all the UPA players would hurry and go to the UPA offices and get waivers for every tournament they might even think of entering in 2003. If no, then the waiver isn't worth the paper it is written on. Just another contract from Flor - i - duh. I wonder if these guys were able to pass the Florida FCAT? Jake~~~and this is the first time that I have officially seen the UPA use the word boycott. From now on it will be a lot easier.

Bob Romano
06-03-2003, 08:35 AM
Even if you had "permission" from the UPA to have several of their players attend your event, whats to say that "they" or CW wont throw in a sanctioned UPA event that would conflict with your dates? Then they must attend the other event because it is in their contract.

Bob Romano
06-03-2003, 08:39 AM
BTW, I too did meet Frank Alverez at the BCA tournament and ditto Mike's option of him.. He is a CLASS ACT, listions to your option and is tryes to understand what is going on....

Vicki
06-03-2003, 10:19 AM
I'll third the opinions of Frank Alverez. Super nice - super classy. I have a very high regard for him. He could bring a lot of good things our way and I look forward to seeing what he will do for pool.

Vicki