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View Full Version : Opinions on the Joss JN-7


mr.d.scottie
10-30-2015, 05:35 PM
Hey all! :) I've been searching for someone who owns a JN-7 "the color of money" cue, and can provide some feedback on the cue. Does anyone mind telling me how it plays? Pros and cons? Is it worth the money? Will it play better then say, a Bushka or McDermott? Thinking about obtaining one but obviously would like any input possible, as this isn't a cue I can just walk into a store and try. I'll post a couple pics and a link to the specific version I'm referring to.
Thank you!

http://www.discountpoolcues.com/colorofMoney.htm

http://www.discountpoolcues.com/www.discountpoolcues.com_presents_joss_jn-7_butt.jpghttp://www.discountpoolcues.com/www.discountpoolcues.com_presents_joss_jn-7_forearm.jpghttp://www.discountpoolcues.com/www.discountpoolcues.com_presents_joss_jn-7_cue.jpg

dr9ball
10-30-2015, 05:53 PM
The cue will play like virtually any other Joss to the extent that the method of building the shaft is pretty standardized. Individual cues and shafts will give a different feel which can be customized by changing ferrule and tip choices.

Some of the larger Billiard supplier warehouse stores may have some to let you hit.

A new version of the cue is showing at $769.25 at Ozone Billiards and at Seyberts.
Shootersbilliards has the N7 cue for $680.
Only you can determine if you like the looks of the cue and if you like the feedback you get when you strike the cue ball.

This cue will give a different sound and feel than a McDermott particularly if the McDermott has the 3/8 x 10 pin and the wood to wood joint. You would find it helpful to find out what type of "hit" you like.

It's not a collectable cue, it's a production cue, so the moment you buy it, it goes down in value. The sharp pointed ones used in the movie are collector cues to the right buyers and would command a higher price. Even the original N-7 cues will probably have better resale than these new ones.


IF you like the feedback you get with the Joss cues then you probably will like this if you like the design. If you get the opportunity to go to a big league national championship there's lots of cues to try. You could also go to the Super Billiards Expo and try a lot of cues in your price range and then decide. You might find a used one online cheaper than the new price.

good luck in your quest for a pool cue of your dreams.

ipoppa33
10-30-2015, 07:46 PM
There is one for sale on the swap/sell board-
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=409635&highlight=joss

Good luck.
Stan

mr.d.scottie
10-30-2015, 08:02 PM
There is one for sale on the swap/sell board-
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=409635&highlight=joss

Good luck.
Stan
Thanks, Stan! This one doesn't have the butt sleeve I like, got to have that sweet white one. 8) But thank you anyway! Will keep an eye on it to see if anyone discusses its pros and cons.

mr.d.scottie
10-30-2015, 08:04 PM
The cue will play like virtually any other Joss to the extent that the method of building the shaft is pretty standardized. Individual cues and shafts will give a different feel which can be customized by changing ferrule and tip choices.

Some of the larger Billiard supplier warehouse stores may have some to let you hit.

A new version of the cue is showing at $769.25 at Ozone Billiards and at Seyberts.
Shootersbilliards has the N7 cue for $680.
Only you can determine if you like the looks of the cue and if you like the feedback you get when you strike the cue ball.

This cue will give a different sound and feel than a McDermott particularly if the McDermott has the 3/8 x 10 pin and the wood to wood joint. You would find it helpful to find out what type of "hit" you like.

It's not a collectable cue, it's a production cue, so the moment you buy it, it goes down in value. The sharp pointed ones used in the movie are collector cues to the right buyers and would command a higher price. Even the original N-7 cues will probably have better resale than these new ones.


IF you like the feedback you get with the Joss cues then you probably will like this if you like the design. If you get the opportunity to go to a big league national championship there's lots of cues to try. You could also go to the Super Billiards Expo and try a lot of cues in your price range and then decide. You might find a used one online cheaper than the new price.

good luck in your quest for a pool cue of your dreams.
Thanks for the words, Dr.! Definitely up to personal preference, as you say. Was just wondering if anyone could compare it to something else and give some pros/cons. Maybe say if it's worth the price they're asking in terms of quality. I suppose it is all in the shaft though, hm. :p

Bavafongoul
10-30-2015, 09:03 PM
Just as an aside, John Marshall has a gorgeous one of a kind custom version of this same cue he just had made........really nice points & ivory joint.
just FYI.......in anyone was interested in seeing a really exceptional rendition of the Color of Money cue.......it's in the Cue Gallery.


Matt B.

Poolplaya9
10-30-2015, 09:38 PM
I've been searching for someone who owns a JN-7 "the color of money" cue, and can provide some feedback on the cue. Will it play better then say, a Bushka or McDermott?

With almost no exceptions (probable exceptions would be ramin wood cues, and most graphite cues and fiberglass cues), contrary to what some others will tell you there absolutely positively is no such thing as one cue playing better than another cue. Now one cue may be more suited to your personal preferences for hit and "feel" and stiffness and butt diameter and balance etc, but all of them can perform at the highest levels possible if they are in the hands of someone with the skill and who prefers that type of cue. The question is what cue is better for you, not what cue is better because there is no such thing.

I think Joss cues hit and play like absolute garbage. And they do, for me. It wouldn't be a good cue for me because it isn't to my preferences in a number of ways. There are others for whom the Joss cues meet their preferences exactly, and for them it might be the best playing cue on earth. It is an extremely individual thing. What someone else likes and what is best from someone else has zero, let me repeat, zero to do with what you like and what would be best for you. No cue is any better than another. Just certain cues are better for certain people. So it isn't even a question worth asking because the answers you will get are meaningless since their needs and preferences are different than yours. It is like asking for someone else to tell you what food you should like best, and their answer to you is that clams are the best food on earth. Well your tastes are different than theirs and clams are not the best food on earth, it is just the best food on earth for them. For you the best food is probably something different.

I see by your signature that you currently play with a McDermott cue. If McDermott cues meet your preferences, then it is a no brainer, get another MdDermott. If it doesn't meet your preferences then in order for anybody to give you any help at all you need to be more specific about how it is failing to meet your preferences and then out of the three we can tell you what will be closest to what you are looking for.

So what is your current dissatisfaction with your McDermott? Is the butt too thick or too thin? Is the shaft too stiff or too flexible? Is it too forward weighted or too rear weighed? Give us every detail about what you don't like about your current cue and maybe we can help you find what will suit your preferences better but otherwise nobody here can be of any help whatsoever. Another thing that can provide some help is if you tell us all the cues you have played with that you really liked because from that we can get an idea of what your personal preferences are for shaft stiffness, balance of the cue, butt diameter size, etc and can once again try to make suggestions that meet your preferences. But telling you what meets our own personal preferences won't be a bit of help to you with your own different preferences.

mr.d.scottie
10-30-2015, 11:47 PM
With almost no exceptions (probable exceptions would be ramin wood cues, and most graphite cues and fiberglass cues), contrary to what some others will tell you there absolutely positively is no such thing as one cue playing better than another cue. Now one cue may be more suited to your personal preferences for hit and "feel" and stiffness and butt diameter and balance etc, but all of them can perform at the highest levels possible if they are in the hands of someone with the skill and who prefers that type of cue. The question is what cue is better for you, not what cue is better because there is no such thing.

I think Joss cues hit and play like absolute garbage. And they do, for me. It wouldn't be a good cue for me because it isn't to my preferences in a number of ways. There are others for whom the Joss cues meet their preferences exactly, and for them it might be the best playing cue on earth. It is an extremely individual thing. What someone else likes and what is best from someone else has zero, let me repeat, zero to do with what you like and what would be best for you. No cue is any better than another. Just certain cues are better for certain people. So it isn't even a question worth asking because the answers you will get are meaningless since their needs and preferences are different than yours. It is like asking for someone else to tell you what food you should like best, and their answer to you is that clams are the best food on earth. Well your tastes are different than theirs and clams are not the best food on earth, it is just the best food on earth for them. For you the best food is probably something different.

I see by your signature that you currently play with a McDermott cue. If McDermott cues meet your preferences, then it is a no brainer, get another MdDermott. If it doesn't meet your preferences then in order for anybody to give you any help at all you need to be more specific about how it is failing to meet your preferences and then out of the three we can tell you what will be closest to what you are looking for.

So what is your current dissatisfaction with your McDermott? Is the butt too thick or too thin? Is the shaft too stiff or too flexible? Is it too forward weighted or too rear weighed? Give us every detail about what you don't like about your current cue and maybe we can help you find what will suit your preferences better but otherwise nobody here can be of any help whatsoever. Another thing that can provide some help is if you tell us all the cues you have played with that you really liked because from that we can get an idea of what your personal preferences are for shaft stiffness, balance of the cue, butt diameter size, etc and can once again try to make suggestions that meet your preferences. But telling you what meets our own personal preferences won't be a bit of help to you with your own different preferences.
Hmm, that's interesting. Makes total sense though. There is no "one size fits all" for anything in life, I suppose! Perhaps this question came after reading countless forums where folks debated over the quality of cues, comparing them, stating whether they were worth the money, all that..
Truth is, I grew up playing with ol' broom handles, never had the money for or knowledge of anything else. So all of this is quite new to me! My McDermotts are great cues, can't really complain but, I can't help but feeling there is something better out there for me.. You know, "the one".. I'm by no means an expert shooter but I know good feel when I feel it.
Perhaps something more stylish, like the Joss pictured above or a Bushka GB6.. A white butt sleeve, beautiful points, nice inlays.. Feel wise, something which is well balanced, handles smooth, sturdy like a one-piece, firm flex but soft on the hit. Something which does the work in the feel department.. Just the right amount of feedback.
Sort of like a forged golf iron, if you follow me there.. A buttery, confidence-inspiring look and feel. I hope this makes sense to you guys.. Getting deep here. :p.

Busboy
10-31-2015, 12:49 AM
Plays like any other joss cues will with steel joint there nice cue that play well

mr.d.scottie
10-31-2015, 01:04 AM
Plays like any other joss cues will with steel joint there nice cue that play well
Thanks for the input!

Poolplaya9
10-31-2015, 01:49 AM
Plays like any other joss cues will with steel joint there nice cue that play well

No they aren't. They are one of the worst playing cues out there. Total worthless garbage. Horrible.

And we are both right.....for us. This is why the "what cue plays good" question (or answering that question) is so dumb, because it is all personal preference. What one guy loves the next guy hates. In the right hands every cue is capable of playing the best pool that has ever been played. The secret is matching the right player to the right cue...for him.

mr.d.scottie
10-31-2015, 02:03 AM
Just as an aside, John Marshall has a gorgeous one of a kind custom version of this same cue he just had made........really nice points & ivory joint.
just FYI.......in anyone was interested in seeing a really exceptional rendition of the Color of Money cue.......it's in the Cue Gallery.


Matt B.
All I have to say is.. Wow. :o Now that is a cue fit for the reputation!

skins
10-31-2015, 02:52 AM
No they aren't. They are one of the worst playing cues out there. Total worthless garbage. Horrible.

And we are both right.....for us. This is why the "what cue plays good" question (or answering that question) is so dumb, because it is all personal preference. What one guy loves the next guy hates. In the right hands every cue is capable of playing the best pool that has ever been played. The secret is matching the right player to the right cue...for him.

"What cue(s) play good" is just as "subjective" as what car(s) drive good... Just because someone says a cue plays good OR bad doesn't mean it actually does.. It's NOT subjective. Just as subjective as telling someone a 2015 Mustang "drives" as well as a 2015 Porsche 911 Turbo... It takes a seasoned and experienced "driver" to tell ALL the differences and explain them in both situations. Same with pool cues. The fact is many if not most don't know what to "feel" for while giving a cue a "test drive". That of course has nothing to do with whether balls can be made with any cue BUT it does have a lot to do whether the person using said cue can play consistently at their highest level....

Good hitting cues ARE good hitting cues PERIOD... There's nothing subjective about it.

Poolplaya9
10-31-2015, 03:23 AM
"What cue(s) play good" is just as "subjective" as what car(s) drive good... Just because someone says a cue plays good OR bad doesn't mean it actually does.. It's NOT subjective. Just as subjective as telling someone a 2015 Mustang "drives" as well as a 2015 Porsche 911 Turbo... It takes a seasoned and experienced "driver" to tell ALL the differences and explain them in both situations. Same with pool cues. The fact is many if not most don't know what to "feel" for while giving a cue a "test drive". That of course has nothing to do with whether balls can be made with any cue BUT it does have a lot to do whether the person using said cue can play consistently at their highest level....

Good hitting cues ARE good hitting cues PERIOD... There's nothing subjective about it.

A lot of people say this, and you are just dead wrong, period. Cues are not like cars, as there is some objectivity with cars. Cues are mostly subjective. With relatively few exceptions, one cue is not inherently better than any other cue in terms of how well they play. Specific cues are just better suited for some people than others, but in the hands of someone who likes the cue they are all capable of running a 526 in straight pool if the person playing with it had the talent to do it.

What makes people be able to play consistently at their highest level is having a cue that fits their preferences perfectly, which will not be the same cue that it will be for you or the one that it will be for me. And almost every cue out there has somebody that it is best for.

RichSchultz
10-31-2015, 03:26 AM
With almost no exceptions (probable exceptions would be ramin wood cues, and most graphite cues and fiberglass cues), contrary to what some others will tell you there absolutely positively is no such thing as one cue playing better than another cue. Now one cue may be more suited to your personal preferences for hit and "feel" and stiffness and butt diameter and balance etc, but all of them can perform at the highest levels possible if they are in the hands of someone with the skill and who prefers that type of cue. The question is what cue is better for you, not what cue is better because there is no such thing.

I think Joss cues hit and play like absolute garbage. And they do, for me. It wouldn't be a good cue for me because it isn't to my preferences in a number of ways. There are others for whom the Joss cues meet their preferences exactly, and for them it might be the best playing cue on earth. It is an extremely individual thing. What someone else likes and what is best from someone else has zero, let me repeat, zero to do with what you like and what would be best for you. No cue is any better than another. Just certain cues are better for certain people. So it isn't even a question worth asking because the answers you will get are meaningless since their needs and preferences are different than yours. It is like asking for someone else to tell you what food you should like best, and their answer to you is that clams are the best food on earth. Well your tastes are different than theirs and clams are not the best food on earth, it is just the best food on earth for them. For you the best food is probably something different.

I see by your signature that you currently play with a McDermott cue. If McDermott cues meet your preferences, then it is a no brainer, get another MdDermott. If it doesn't meet your preferences then in order for anybody to give you any help at all you need to be more specific about how it is failing to meet your preferences and then out of the three we can tell you what will be closest to what you are looking for.

So what is your current dissatisfaction with your McDermott? Is the butt too thick or too thin? Is the shaft too stiff or too flexible? Is it too forward weighted or too rear weighed? Give us every detail about what you don't like about your current cue and maybe we can help you find what will suit your preferences better but otherwise nobody here can be of any help whatsoever. Another thing that can provide some help is if you tell us all the cues you have played with that you really liked because from that we can get an idea of what your personal preferences are for shaft stiffness, balance of the cue, butt diameter size, etc and can once again try to make suggestions that meet your preferences. But telling you what meets our own personal preferences won't be a bit of help to you with your own different preferences.
Dangit. Now I am craving clams.

Colonel
10-31-2015, 05:57 AM
My opinion is you can get a great used custom for a small amount more than you'd pay for this.

SWN99
10-31-2015, 06:38 AM
steel joint + , not a muecci +++++

As stated above, changing the tip and ferule will give you the playability and feel you want.
The rest is do you want a 700$ joss?
I miss old traditional cues with sharp points. :(

Shawn Armstrong
10-31-2015, 07:42 AM
A lot of people say this, and you are just dead wrong, period. Cues are not like cars, as there is some objectivity with cars. Cues are mostly subjective. With relatively few exceptions, one cue is not inherently better than any other cue in terms of how well they play. Specific cues are just better suited for some people than others, but in the hands of someone who likes the cue they are all capable of running a 526 in straight pool if the person playing with it had the talent to do it.

What makes people be able to play consistently at their highest level is having a cue that fits their preferences perfectly, which will not be the same cue that it will be for you or the one that it will be for me. And almost every cue out there has somebody that it is best for.

Absolute rubbish. Seriously. Shane switches from a Schon (with a crappy Joss shaft), to a Cuetec, and keeps winning. Thorsten goes from an Arthur (I think that was the custom he was using) to a Lucasi, and still runs 400s. John Schmidt goes from a Hunter Custom, to an OB, to a Fury, and still runs 400s.

I had a pretty sporty friend borrow my Joss one time. He is a pretty competent player - uses a Predator shaft on all of his cues. He used my Joss to play his set, because he came from work and didn't have his cue. He lost the first rack, and then proceeded to run off the next 7 to win his match. His exact words regarding the cue: "I had to get used to the throw. Once I figured out how much it chucked, it played lights out. If it had a harder tip, it would be a weapon". No critique of the cue being garbage. He also ran sets with a sneaky Dufferin, and someone's Meucci. Never, once, did he call someone's cue "garbage". "Hit" isn't a playing characteristic of a cue. It's a subjective feeling, but has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of the wooden rod to pocket balls.

mr.d.scottie
10-31-2015, 07:45 AM
steel joint + , not a muecci +++++

As stated above, changing the tip and ferule will give you the playability and feel you want.
The rest is do you want a 700$ joss?
I miss old traditional cues with sharp points. :(
Hahah, perhaps there are better options out there for $700! Mainly just wanted to see if it was the 'astounding' cue that it's cracked up to be.. This thing is supposed to shoot rainbows, man! :D
Yes, nothing beats that classic look.. Would like to check out one of the new Chinese Bushkas, just for kicks. (Pun kind of intended!)

justabrake
10-31-2015, 08:02 AM
Once you go "custom" you'll never go back :grin:

DaveM
10-31-2015, 08:05 AM
Once you go "custom" you'll never go back :grin:

Richard Black cues only.....

mr.d.scottie
10-31-2015, 08:25 AM
Richard Black cues only.....
Wow, those look very nice indeed.. So you guys are saying, once you go Black, Richard....? :D

justabrake
10-31-2015, 08:29 AM
Wow, those look very nice indeed.. So you guys are saying, once you go Black, Richard....? :D

I never had a Richard Black so I wouldn't know but most customs are better then any production and I've own 98% production :thumbup:

Bavafongoul
10-31-2015, 10:18 AM
Azer.....MCP....has one for sale right now.

Matt B.



Joss Color Of $ Cue - 10-29-2015, 09:27 AM
$550
with - 2 - shafts. 5/16 x 14
-------------------
1- Joss shaft
The joss shaft is approximately 13mm and 3.5 oz. Length 29"

1- Pre cat Predator 314 Shaft, Good Condition. Shaft has the slightest taper roll.
Specs: Approximate
Weight_ 3.75
Length_ 29"
Diameter_ 12.50mm
Tip_ Kamui Tan

Sorry don't have digital calipers or a digital scale but I would say very close.

___________________
Shipped Lower 48 Priority USPS w/tracking (No trades)
Mcp



Check out John Marshall's custom made "Color of Money Cue" listed in the Cue gallery.........it is spectacular!

skins
10-31-2015, 01:53 PM
A lot of people say this, and you are just dead wrong, period. Cues are not like cars, as there is some objectivity with cars. Cues are mostly subjective. With relatively few exceptions, one cue is not inherently better than any other cue in terms of how well they play. Specific cues are just better suited for some people than others, but in the hands of someone who likes the cue they are all capable of running a 526 in straight pool if the person playing with it had the talent to do it.

What makes people be able to play consistently at their highest level is having a cue that fits their preferences perfectly, which will not be the same cue that it will be for you or the one that it will be for me. And almost every cue out there has somebody that it is best for.

No buddy YOU are the one who is wrong.. I stake my reputation as a player AND being involved in building cues for 25 years... Just because someone has their "preferences" does NOT mean the cue HITS good... As I've stated, they may be able to make balls but if you give that same person an ACTUAL good playing cue with their preferences, they'll play even better more consistently.. That's a FACT... Obviously YOU are one who can't tell the differences...

Poolplaya9
10-31-2015, 02:34 PM
Absolute rubbish. Seriously. Shane switches from a Schon (with a crappy Joss shaft), to a Cuetec, and keeps winning. Thorsten goes from an Arthur (I think that was the custom he was using) to a Lucasi, and still runs 400s. John Schmidt goes from a Hunter Custom, to an OB, to a Fury, and still runs 400s.

I had a pretty sporty friend borrow my Joss one time. He is a pretty competent player - uses a Predator shaft on all of his cues. He used my Joss to play his set, because he came from work and didn't have his cue. He lost the first rack, and then proceeded to run off the next 7 to win his match. His exact words regarding the cue: "I had to get used to the throw. Once I figured out how much it chucked, it played lights out. If it had a harder tip, it would be a weapon". No critique of the cue being garbage. He also ran sets with a sneaky Dufferin, and someone's Meucci. Never, once, did he call someone's cue "garbage". "Hit" isn't a playing characteristic of a cue. It's a subjective feeling, but has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of the wooden rod to pocket balls.

I think Shane's cue that you referred to (the one with his name inlaid) was a Joss with a Schon shaft but maybe I am remembering it backwards. As for the rest of your post, I don't get the point because the tone of it sounds like you are trying to disagree with me, yet you are repeating back to me everything I said and are in the strongest agreement. You are right in that if you are familiar with a cue you can usually play pretty well with it even if you don't like it and I never said otherwise. I do think a person will play their best pool with a cue they are familiar with and that meets their their preferences perfectly though (mostly because of psychological reasons like confidence). As for the rest of what you wrote, it just parroted everything I said to a T. Pretty much all cues are capable of consistent pool of the highest possible levels, and preferences are subjective.

cubswin
10-31-2015, 02:37 PM
If I was buying one, I'd look for the j-18 version from the 80's. They are still out there, and in my opinion better hitting cues. I've owned multiple versions of the cue, and a ton of joss cues over the years. The old gold letter j series is easily my favorite.

As for how they play, I like joss cues. I have had plenty of custom and production cues, and joss and schon cues both have a hit I like.

mr.d.scottie
10-31-2015, 02:49 PM
If I was buying one, I'd look for the j-18 version from the 80's. They are still out there, and in my opinion better hitting cues. I've owned multiple versions of the cue, and a ton of joss cues over the years. The old gold letter j series is easily my favorite.

As for how they play, I like joss cues. I have had plenty of custom and production cues, and joss and schon cues both have a hit I like.
Very cool, thank you for sharing and for the recommendation. I will go check those out for sure.. Seems like the older versions of cues tend to play better than the newer ones.. Made by better hands or materials, perhaps?
...Also, thank you for actually answering my question. ;) :D

9Ballr
10-31-2015, 02:51 PM
Thinking about obtaining one but obviously would like any input possible, as this isn't a cue I can just walk into a store and try.


Find your closest pool supply place and play any Joss they have.
If you like their hit get this one.
It's a beautiful cue and there's nothing wrong with their cues.
If you like Joss in general, and you certainly can play those at most of the suppliers, then come back and get this one.
Or order it from your local dealer.

Poolplaya9
10-31-2015, 02:57 PM
No buddy YOU are the one who is wrong.. I stake my reputation as a player AND being involved in building cues for 25 years... Just because someone has their "preferences" does NOT mean the cue HITS good... As I've stated, they may be able to make balls but if you give that same person an ACTUAL good playing cue with their preferences, they'll play even better more consistently.. That's a FACT... Obviously YOU are one who can't tell the differences...

Many cue makers hold your belief (of course they do, it helps sell cues) and it is dead wrong. But go ahead and explain exactly what you think an objectively good hitting cue is and in what ways you feel this makes it inherently better than another cue and tell us what evidence supports those claims.

The evidence that supports that all cues are inherently fairly equal in their abilities is that just about every cue has been used by pros to play at the highest level possible. And has been pointed out previously in this thread, sometimes the same pro even uses various cues and plays at the highest possible levels with all of them. Pretty much all cues are capable of playing better than the person using it ever could. If you can't play consistently well with a cue it is either because you are not yet totally familiar with it yet or you just simply don't like it. There is somebody else who could play at the very highest levels with it though. It isn't inherently inferior to other cues.

9Ballr
10-31-2015, 02:58 PM
And we are both right.....for us. This is why the "what cue plays good" question (or answering that question) is so dumb, because it is all personal preference. What one guy loves the next guy hates.



It's ok, it's ok......everything is fine....

Then just just let those of us who don't mind answering these questions reply to them.

There's nothing that says that YOU have to reply if you don't want to or find something about it that's dumb.

Just go to the next post.

mr.d.scottie
10-31-2015, 02:59 PM
I agree with both of you guys. I mean, it definitely depends on the player, not everyone is going to experience one thing in the same way as another person, nor it is guaranteed for one person to enjoy one cue's sound and feel as much as the next guy.. But to say it's strictly black and white, that it's all about the individual, (and that this cue is "trash") is wrong too. It's like saying a set of old Wilson Staff irons from the 70s are just as good as a new set of forged Mizunos, or that a Chinese made Les Paul, no-name copy is just as good as the real thing. There is quality, there is crap, and there is an in-between, regardless of who possesses the tool.
All I wanted to know, is where this particular cue lies in that spectrum, for its price point. Is it good? Great? Just okay? How is the shaft? How does the butt feel? Is this cue on par with the Bushkas and others in this price range?
I didn't see a real thread on this anywhere, so I thought it would be interesting to create one, as well as to get a legitimate question answered.. Ya dig? :D

Poolplaya9
10-31-2015, 03:03 PM
There's nothing that says that YOU have to reply if you don't want to or find something about it that's dumb.

I'm trying to help him out with the right answer to his question, just like anyone else responding is trying to help him out.

9Ballr
10-31-2015, 03:03 PM
"I had to get used to the throw. Once I figured out how much it chucked, it played lights out. If it had a harder tip, it would be a weapon". No critique of the cue being garbage.


Joss makes great cues.

If one likes their hit there's exactly nothing wrong with them.

This particular cue is absolutely beautiful. Love that classic cue look. Nothing over the top.
Just nicely executed art work.

OP; get the cue if you want it.
I play people night after night who swear by their late model Joss cues and hate my 80's R12 Runde.
So just get whatever feels right to you.....

Dedeye1209
10-31-2015, 03:05 PM
I purchased my N7 in 1994, my third cue. My first was a plain blue Meucci with black wrap. Sold that after less than a year and bought a plane-Jane Joss (my mentor had an early 80s N7). My N7 has been my main playing cue for over 20 years. I just sent it to Dan Janes at Joss to repair a cracked butt plate, some refinish work. Mine is a pre 1990 cue with no serial number, and before the shafts had implex (plastic) inserts, they had brass.

It hits very stiff, and very controllable. The weight is perfect, as is the balance. I have a high-growth ring shaft that (IMO) plays and suits my game. I have been getting to know my cue for 20+ years. If I ever get another cue, it will be from a custom maker like Richard Black or Jerry Raunzahn.

I had the pleasure of speaking with Dan at Joss. He told me an interesting anecdote about some of the Cuemakers to whom he contributed his knowledge. The list includes:Tim Scruggs, Richard Black, Bill Schick, Tony from Black Boar, Steve from White Boar, of course Dan and Steven Janes, and Bill Stroud from JossWest (pretty good lineup of world-class cue makers, if you ask me) among others. Dan described himself as "like the Johnny Appleseed of cue making." What a great guy.

Hope you find the right cue for your game. The best thing you can do is try many different cues, and often. One will grab you.

Brad

Dedeye1209
10-31-2015, 03:14 PM
This is why when a new player asks me: what kind of cue should I get? I always tell him the same thing. Get a sneaky Pete to start out. Eventually every pool player wants to have one and until you actually learn what you like, they are always good to learn with. And very affordable. A good one can be had for $150.

mr.d.scottie
10-31-2015, 03:20 PM
My opinion is you can get a great used custom for a small amount more than you'd pay for this.
Interesting! Any suggestions? :)

skins
10-31-2015, 03:31 PM
Many cue makers hold your belief (of course they do, it helps sell cues) and it is dead wrong. But go ahead and explain exactly what you think an objectively good hitting cue is and in what ways you feel this makes it inherently better than another cue and tell us what evidence supports those claims.

The evidence that supports that all cues are inherently fairly equal in their abilities is that just about every cue has been used by pros to play at the highest level possible. And has been pointed out previously in this thread, sometimes the same pro even uses various cues and plays at the highest possible levels with all of them. Pretty much all cues are capable of playing better than the person using it ever could. If you can't play consistently well with a cue it is either because you are not yet totally familiar with it yet or you just simply don't like it. There is somebody else who could play at the very highest levels with it though. It isn't inherently inferior to other cues.

You bring me 10 cues... I will explain the differences in hit... I'm in the Chicago area.. Let me know when you want to bring them.. You may just learn something.

Poolplaya9
10-31-2015, 03:33 PM
But to say it's strictly black and white, that it's all about the individual, (and that this cue is "trash") is wrong too
Who said a cue was trash in a black and white manner as in that wouldn't be good for anybody? Nobody said that. In fact what was said could not possibly be more opposite from that. What was said was that for them, and their personal preferences, in that regard the cue was trash for them but may in fact be the best cue in the world for the next guy. In other words there was nothing inherently wrong with the cue, it just wasn't right for them.

It's like saying a set of old Wilson Staff irons from the 70s are just as good as a new set of forged Mizunos, or that a Chinese made Les Paul, no-name copy is just as good as the real thing.

Pool sticks are not like many or most other things in that respect. When it comes to their capability for play they are pretty equally capable for the most part. It is just a matter of getting familiar with that particular stick as well as how closely it meets your preferences. There are objective differences between the the quality of construction with different cues (typically cosmetic or things that affect how long it will last), but rarely with how well they are inherently capable of playing.

Poolplaya9
10-31-2015, 03:38 PM
You bring me 10 cues... I will explain the differences in hit... I'm in the Chicago area.. Let me know when you want to bring them.. You may just learn something.

I know the differences in hit and also know that what is best is almost all personal preference. Your claim is that some hits are objectively and inherently better than others. You made the claim so tell us which hits you think are objectively and inherently best, and why, and provide your evidence.

Shawn Armstrong
10-31-2015, 03:49 PM
I know the differences in hit and also know that what is best is almost all personal preference. Your claim is that some hits are objectively and inherently better than others. You made the claim so tell us which hits you think are objectively and inherently best, and why, and provide your evidence.

I can take any cue you give me, and change the "hit" of it in about 6 minutes. I put a split elkmaster on it, it will hit like a wet sponge. If I put a good Le Pro on it, it will hit solid. If I put a water buffalo on it, it will hit even more crisp. Or I could change the ferrule material. A thermoset plastic ferrule will be mellow. An ivorine-3 ferrule will be more tingy and hard. None of these changes have anything to do with the cue construction. But they'll change a lot of that so called "feel" you talk about.

I wasn't agreeing with you. Hit is some "mystique" that is subjective, but the feel and perceived "hit" of the cue will have nothing to do with its actual performance. I've had cues that felt great when playing, but they weren't "good cues" My old Meucci back in the 90s had a great feel. I loved how it hit. But one day, I was undoing the cue, and the forearm untwisted from the handle, instead of breaking apart at the joint. The cue was assembled poorly.

Would I rather have a cue that felt wonderful in my hands, I loved the feel of the contact, but the path of the cueball was erratic when playing varying amounts of english.....or a cue that hit like a carrot, but I knew exactly where the cueball was going when I played any spin? I'll take the carrot.

Poolplaya9
10-31-2015, 04:07 PM
I can take any cue you give me, and change the "hit" of it in about 6 minutes. I put a split elkmaster on it, it will hit like a wet sponge. If I put a good Le Pro on it, it will hit solid. If I put a water buffalo on it, it will hit even more crisp. Or I could change the ferrule material. A thermoset plastic ferrule will be mellow. An ivorine-3 ferrule will be more tingy and hard. None of these changes have anything to do with the cue construction. But they'll change a lot of that so called "feel" you talk about.

I wasn't agreeing with you. Hit is some "mystique" that is subjective, but the feel and perceived "hit" of the cue will have nothing to do with its actual performance. I've had cues that felt great when playing, but they weren't "good cues" My old Meucci back in the 90s had a great feel. I loved how it hit. But one day, I was undoing the cue, and the forearm untwisted from the handle, instead of breaking apart at the joint. The cue was assembled poorly.

Would I rather have a cue that felt wonderful in my hands, I loved the feel of the contact, but the path of the cueball was erratic when playing varying amounts of english.....or a cue that hit like a carrot, but I knew exactly where the cueball was going when I played any spin? I'll take the carrot.

Again, you said all the exact same things I have been saying and are completely agreeing with me. Apparently you just aren't comprehending my posts because you just keep repeating back to me the exact same things I have said.

While feel and hit have nothing to do with actual performance, I think they can have a psychological affect on our performance though and you didn't mention that part. If you just can't stand the hit or feel you may not play as well with it even though it is not inherently inferior and it doesn't affect the performance of the cue itself just as we have both said.

You did finally saying something new that I disagree with though. You mention that the path of the cue ball is erratic with some cues and while I believe this is a common perception I do not believe it is generally the reality. It is erratic because of the person for whatever the reason. I think testing would prove this out. Hook those same cues up to a robot and they would not create erratic cue ball paths, nor would they have erratic cue ball paths in every other player's hands.

Shawn Armstrong
10-31-2015, 05:31 PM
Again, you said all the exact same things I have been saying and are completely agreeing with me. Apparently you just aren't comprehending my posts because you just keep repeating back to me the exact same things I have said.

While feel and hit have nothing to do with actual performance, I think they can have a psychological affect on our performance though and you didn't mention that part. If you just can't stand the hit or feel you may not play as well with it even though it is not inherently inferior and it doesn't affect the performance of the cue itself just as we have both said.

You did finally saying something new that I disagree with though. You mention that the path of the cue ball is erratic with some cues and while I believe this is a common perception I do not believe it is generally the reality. It is erratic because of the person for whatever the reason. I think testing would prove this out. Hook those same cues up to a robot and they would not create erratic cue ball paths, nor would they have erratic cue ball paths in every other player's hands.

Except Joss cues. In your hands, they play like garbage. To everyone else that has used them, they play well.

skins
10-31-2015, 05:36 PM
I know the differences in hit and also know that what is best is almost all personal preference. Your claim is that some hits are objectively and inherently better than others. You made the claim so tell us which hits you think are objectively and inherently best, and why, and provide your evidence.

My claim is that "I" can tell... Now when "I tell", by of course playing with the cues, I will then explain to YOU why. Explaining also requires you to hit with them after i explain and you MAY understand.. Then again you may not..

Are you in or are you just going to keep waltzing around my offer?

You can and will keep saying you know this and you know that but the fact that you disagree with me means that you just don't know... I here waiting for the cues whenever you want...

Colonel
10-31-2015, 05:46 PM
Interesting! Any suggestions? :)


Sure, look up thread Harris Cue 2 right now. You can get that cue for $750. I think you might find it a bit of an upgrade compared to the Joss.

Poolplaya9
10-31-2015, 06:09 PM
Except Joss cues. In your hands, they play like garbage. To everyone else that has used them, they play well.

And I've not only said others might like them (although contrary to your post plenty don't) but I even said right from the get go that it will be the best cue in the world to some people and that there is nothing inherently wrong with them they just aren't at all suited for my tastes. So what exactly do you disagree with me on again (because once again you are agreeing with me completely)? I have yet to see a single thing that you disagree with me on. Not one. If you have something you disagree with me on then by all means mention it, but so far you have just argued back to me the exact same things I have been saying. I have never seen somebody trying so hard to argue with someone else who is saying the same things they are.

Poolplaya9
10-31-2015, 06:14 PM
My claim is that "I" can tell... Now when "I tell", by of course playing with the cues, I will then explain to YOU why. Explaining also requires you to hit with them after i explain and you MAY understand.. Then again you may not..

Are you in or are you just going to keep waltzing around my offer?

You can and will keep saying you know this and you know that but the fact that you disagree with me means that you just don't know... I here waiting for the cues whenever you want...

Well you are full of crap and dead wrong on your claim. If you have some evidence, post it. There is nothing you could ever teach me about the hit of a cue and how it affects play, I can assure you of that. You have that one backwards in fact.

But again, if you think a certain hit or hits are somehow superior for everyone, explain what they are, and your evidence for that belief. Are you going to take me up on that, or are you just going to keep blowing smoke and waltzing around on doing that?

Buzzard II
10-31-2015, 06:14 PM
If this was a survey I'd vote with Poolplaya 9. I have money tied up in very pretty cues that "hit a ton"
But my sig shows I play with a Frey SP that hits only 18.8 oz. My on the road cue is a McDermott SP that hits 19oz. I love McDermotts too. Ya gotta problem wid dat? It's what feels good to the person. Each one of us. That leaves room for pretty much anything.

For Skins to think that he alone is the arbiter of what hits good is pretty damn arrogant.

mr.d.scottie
10-31-2015, 06:42 PM
If this was a survey I'd vote with Poolplaya 9. I have money tied up in very pretty cues that "hit a ton"
But my sig shows I play with a Frey SP that hits only 18.8 oz. My on the road cue is a McDermott SP that hits 19oz. I love McDermotts too. Ya gotta problem wid dat? It's what feels good to the person. Each one of us. That leaves room for pretty much anything.

For Skins to think that he alone is the arbiter of what hits good is pretty damn arrogant.
Wow.. That's gorgeous, man! Thanks for suggestion. Going to check this gentleman out.
(I quoted the completely wrong message, by the way. �� Sorry for that.)

lorider
10-31-2015, 07:55 PM
My claim is that "I" can tell... Now when "I tell", by of course playing with the cues, I will then explain to YOU why. Explaining also requires you to hit with them after i explain and you MAY understand.. Then again you may not..

Are you in or are you just going to keep waltzing around my offer?

You can and will keep saying you know this and you know that but the fact that you disagree with me means that you just don't know... I here waiting for the cues whenever you want...

you seem to be quite an expert on cues so i hope you can explain my honest question.

how is it possible i can play better ....most of the time :grin:.... with the cheapest cue i have ever bought ?

here is why i am asking. i have several cues....mostly medium priced production cues......400.00 -500.00 range. a 1,200.00 predator. a 2,500.00 custom.

upon earning a trip to the apa nationals i was leery of taking any of my cues because i had never been and have never shipped any cues before.

i bought a cheap 40.00 sneaky pete made by premeir cue company. i played a total of 3 league matches before going to vegas and shot very well with it. my 1st match in vegas i played another 5 like me ' i won 38-4 earning my 1st ever 20-0 skunk in apa 9 ball. my 2nd match vs another 5 i won 38-10......18-2 score if my memory is right. my 3rd match was vs a s/l 7. he won the lag and i was down 18-0 before i ever got to the table. once i got to shoot i matched him point for point and lost by 1 point.

when i got back home i put that cue up and went back to my ivory.....abalone...and sterling silver laden custom. i like flashy cues .:D

well lately i have not been playing well so i got that cheap sneaky out of the closet and beat an s/l 8 by 38-34 the 1st night i played with it in over a year.

with that seemingly vast knowledge of cues you possess ...can you explain to me how that is possible ?

skins
11-01-2015, 01:40 AM
Well you are full of crap and dead wrong on your claim. If you have some evidence, post it. There is nothing you could ever teach me about the hit of a cue and how it affects play, I can assure you of that. You have that one backwards in fact.

But again, if you think a certain hit or hits are somehow superior for everyone, explain what they are, and your evidence for that belief. Are you going to take me up on that, or are you just going to keep blowing smoke and waltzing around on doing that?

The fact that you keep dodging my offer speaks volumes... My offer stands to anyone who wants to take me up on it.. Now THAT should "out" me quick shouldn't it... And YES I could teach you PLENTY! Just come to the Chitown area and you can out me yourself... I'm confident it will be the other way around though...

Who did you say you were again?

skins
11-01-2015, 01:56 AM
you seem to be quite an expert on cues so i hope you can explain my honest question.

how is it possible i can play better ....most of the time :grin:.... with the cheapest cue i have ever bought ?

here is why i am asking. i have several cues....mostly medium priced production cues......400.00 -500.00 range. a 1,200.00 predator. a 2,500.00 custom.

upon earning a trip to the apa nationals i was leery of taking any of my cues because i had never been and have never shipped any cues before.

i bought a cheap 40.00 sneaky pete made by premeir cue company. i played a total of 3 league matches before going to vegas and shot very well with it. my 1st match in vegas i played another 5 like me ' i won 38-4 earning my 1st ever 20-0 skunk in apa 9 ball. my 2nd match vs another 5 i won 38-10......18-2 score if my memory is right. my 3rd match was vs a s/l 7. he won the lag and i was down 18-0 before i ever got to the table. once i got to shoot i matched him point for point and lost by 1 point.

when i got back home i put that cue up and went back to my ivory.....abalone...and sterling silver laden custom. i like flashy cues .:D

well lately i have not been playing well so i got that cheap sneaky out of the closet and beat an s/l 8 by 38-34 the 1st night i played with it in over a year.

with that seemingly vast knowledge of cues you possess ...can you explain to me how that is possible ?

Well, The price of a cue does not nessesarily translate to how you can play with it NOR whether it hits well or not... I can play with just about anything with a leather tip BUT it doesn't guarantee I will play consistent. I too play with a sneaky. Custom made for me by my partner Keith Josey. It hits very well. Not as good as some other cues I have BUT I've played with it for so long I just "know" the cue.

That's where this other poster has it wrong. Ya see he thinks the hit of the cue is subjective meaning that someone may think a cue hits bad and someone else may thinks it hits good. The fact is, it either hits good or it doesn't. Now, how it "plays" is another trait you can throw into the mix. Some of us make a living knowing what to "feel" for and what to look for as far as action of the cue ball off the tip.. Both of these play a big role in determining the hit of a cue... There are house cues that hit phenomenally. And some that hit like crap. There are expensive cues that hit and play great and some that are dogs... Ultimately price means nothing... Keep that sneaky! :)

Poolplaya9
11-01-2015, 02:25 AM
The fact that you keep dodging my offer speaks volumes... My offer stands to anyone who wants to take me up on it.. Now THAT should "out" me quick shouldn't it... And YES I could teach you PLENTY! Just come to the Chitown area and you can out me yourself... I'm confident it will be the other way around though...

Who did you say you were again?

Why would I want to travel to hear nonsense from somebody that doesn't know what he is talking about in regards to a cues performance and how that relates to each player? Like I said, if you think that a certain hit of a cue is universally better for everybody and universally more consistent for everybody then tell us about it here. And provide whatever evidence you have to back up that silly belief. The fact that you keep dodging this speaks volumes.

skins
11-01-2015, 09:28 AM
Why would I want to travel to hear nonsense from somebody that doesn't know what he is talking about in regards to a cues performance and how that relates to each player? Like I said, if you think that a certain hit of a cue is universally better for everybody and universally more consistent for everybody then tell us about it here. And provide whatever evidence you have to back up that silly belief. The fact that you keep dodging this speaks volumes.

You obviously are one of the ones who just will never get it... The fact that you keep spewing gibberish against that proves it.. FACT, ANY cue the has more positive "attributes", let me rephrase that THINGS YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT NOR CAN DESCRIBE, will ALLOW for the OPPORTUNITY, to play with more consistency due to less distraction from those negative "attributes" ..YA see, people like you are so caught up in a false belief that you can't even understand the truth , which is plain common sense,bwhen it's right in your hands. Obviously you never will because YOU, who claim to be able to teach me a thing or two about cues :rolleyes: can't "put up" and PROVE me wrong yet I have stepped out and have given you OR anyone else, an opportunity to. THAT, my freind speaks like a library of "volumes".

I'm here whenever you want to take me to school....

Dedeye1209
11-01-2015, 02:39 PM
Interesting that you would steer someone to a cue that you prefer, and steer him away from one he might like even better. It's all personal friends, never know until you try. The likelihood is much lower of trying a custom job than trying a production cue that could provide years or decades of enjoyable service.

mr.d.scottie
11-01-2015, 03:39 PM
Interesting that you would steer someone to a cue that you prefer, and steer him away from one he might like even better. It's all personal friends, never know until you try. The likelihood is much lower of trying a custom job than trying a production cue that could provide years or decades of enjoyable service.
I'm just going to head down to G Cue Billairds in Tempe (AZ, they own Bushka ;) ) tomorrow and try a whole mess of em. Will find out for myself! I do like any and all suggestions though, production and otherwise. Besides the bickering, this thread has been very informative. :p

cubswin
11-01-2015, 04:31 PM
Not sure the debate about how cues hit in this thread means much. I've owned roughly 150 cues. I've heard scruggs sneaky's often described as great hitting cues, and to me they were no better than one of the many joss cues I've owned.

Hit of a cue is a pretty subjective thing. Some people are going to like butt heavy cues, others will not. Some people like whippy shafts, others don't. I've known people that hated southwests, one guy hated a plain jane kersenbrock. Most people love how they hit, but not everyone.

Short of a cue being constructed in a bad way, or a shaft being completely junk wood the hit of a cue is about how it feels in your own hand, the feedback you feel, and what it does for you.

Shawn Armstrong
11-01-2015, 05:01 PM
The story of the shitty hitting cue:

Had a guy bring me a cue, and told me the cue hit like shit. He wanted to get rid of it - couldn't stand the feel of it. So I asked if I could look at it. It was a Falcon with a Predator shaft. I immediately checked the rubber bumper and and weight bolt. Both were loose. Tightened the weight bolt. Tightened the bumper. I gave it back to him. "What did you change? This cue has never HIT this good!!".

The cue played IDENTICAL to the way it played with a loose bolt and bumper. But his perception was that the hit dramatically improved. NO. The hit revealed something loose in the cue, for me, as I have worked on cues for awhile. He interpreted that as "hits like shit".

To say an entire brand of cues hit bad is just ludicrous. I guess ALL 100,000 Joss Cues out there hit poorly for Playa. The funny thing is, their taper has changed. And their construction techniques. And their ferrule materials. I guess ALL of their possible permutations and combinations of cuemaking have equalled "suck". There must be a leak in a SUCK tank inside Joss.

I have hit pretty much every brand of production cue, and have yet to find a BRAND that sucks across all of their cues. I've hit customs that felt horrible, and some that felt wired into my hand. But to say that all of someone's cues are terrible is pretty condescending and arrogant. They've sold a lot of cues that would dictate otherwise - been in business since 1969, under the same ownership as the day they started. Do the Scruggs and Frey made Joss cues suck, too? Or the Stroud Joss cues? Or are Dan and Stephen the only ones that produce "SUCK"?

Buzzard II
11-01-2015, 05:26 PM
Since it seems your main quest is an old school, George Balabushka looking cue, you might want to try a Pechauer. The 50th anniversary model "DEC2" sure is a GB lookalike. The real thing Cortland wrap too.

Somewhere out there will be a Bushka look cue that will make your hand smile. That's the one to buy. Feel and balance, the hit is just a tip change away, no matter what some say.

skins
11-01-2015, 05:28 PM
Interesting that you would steer someone to a cue that you prefer, and steer him away from one he might like even better. It's all personal friends, never know until you try. The likelihood is much lower of trying a custom job than trying a production cue that could provide years or decades of enjoyable service.

I hope you aren't talking about me because I'm not "steering" anyone anywhere. You are right though that someone should always get the cue they "like" best. But liking a cue does not mean it "plays" well. They may like it for whatever reason but as I said "like" is not fact.

The fact is I'm glad everyone has their own preferences and buy what they like. I hope everyone can do that. I'd bet dollars to donuts if they did find a cue that actually played well, they would notice the differences compared to all other cues after that...

Shawn Armstrong
11-01-2015, 06:44 PM
I think Shane's cue that you referred to (the one with his name inlaid) was a Joss with a Schon shaft but maybe I am remembering it backwards. As for the rest of your post, I don't get the point because the tone of it sounds like you are trying to disagree with me, yet you are repeating back to me everything I said and are in the strongest agreement. You are right in that if you are familiar with a cue you can usually play pretty well with it even if you don't like it and I never said otherwise. I do think a person will play their best pool with a cue they are familiar with and that meets their their preferences perfectly though (mostly because of psychological reasons like confidence). As for the rest of what you wrote, it just parroted everything I said to a T. Pretty much all cues are capable of consistent pool of the highest possible levels, and preferences are subjective.

He had a Joss cue that was custom made for him. He then took the shaft from that cue, and put it on the Schon butt that used to belong to his mother.

Where we are disagreeing is that there is an entire brand that hits like crap. If a certain brand of cue can have that kind of effect on your game, I'm not sure you're using the right end of the cue. It's the small part with the leather on the end.

I've played with Wallabushkas, and ran off a lot of balls with a nearly cracked ferrule and a super soft elkmaster tip. A cue is a cue. By your own remarks, every brand sucks. They can all be inherently good, or inherently bad. You choose to say Joss sucks, but other brands are good, You should just say "I have a mental barrier that doesn't allow me to shoot well with cues by Joss". That's a truer statement.

mr.d.scottie
11-01-2015, 07:42 PM
Since it seems your main quest is an old school, George Balabushka looking cue, you might want to try a Pechauer. The 50th anniversary model "DEC2" sure is a GB lookalike. The real thing Cortland wrap too.

Somewhere out there will be a Bushka look cue that will make your hand smile. That's the one to buy. Feel and balance, the hit is just a tip change away, no matter what some say.
Wow, that is a pretty looking cue! I especially like the butt sleeve on that. Very, very nice recommendation. So nice, that I'll post a pic below with this reply for others to see!
..I wonder how this cue would compare quality-wise to the current Bushka GB6, which is in the same price range.. Which is silly, because I'm pretty sure it's Chinese at this point. :/ (Going to test out said Bushka tomorrow, if they have it in stock at G-Cue.)

http://www.budgetcues.com/images/pechauer/pechauer-pool-cue-anniversery-dec-2-l.jpg

Shawn Armstrong
11-01-2015, 08:01 PM
Wow, that is a pretty looking cue! I especially like the butt sleeve on that. Very, very nice recommendation. So nice, that I'll post a pic below with this reply for others to see!
..I wonder how this cue would compare quality-wise to the current Bushka GB6, which is in the same price range.. Which is silly, because I'm pretty sure it's Chinese at this point. :/ (Going to test out said Bushka tomorrow, if they have it in stock at G-Cue.)

http://www.budgetcues.com/images/pechauer/pechauer-pool-cue-anniversery-dec-2-l.jpg

The new Balabushkas are made by Adam Cues (Helmstetter) in Japan. They aren't Chinese.

ADAM HENSON
11-01-2015, 08:59 PM
The new Balabushkas are made by Adam Cues (Helmstetter) in Japan. They aren't Chinese.

I think they play great... ;)

mr.d.scottie
11-01-2015, 10:22 PM
The new Balabushkas are made by Adam Cues (Helmstetter) in Japan. They aren't Chinese.
Ah, very cool! :)

mr.d.scottie
11-01-2015, 10:24 PM
I think they play great... ;)
I can't WAIT to try one out tomorrow. :D

pwd72s
11-01-2015, 11:20 PM
"What cue(s) play good" is just as "subjective" as what car(s) drive good... Just because someone says a cue plays good OR bad doesn't mean it actually does.. It's NOT subjective. Just as subjective as telling someone a 2015 Mustang "drives" as well as a 2015 Porsche 911 Turbo... It takes a seasoned and experienced "driver" to tell ALL the differences and explain them in both situations. Same with pool cues. The fact is many if not most don't know what to "feel" for while giving a cue a "test drive". That of course has nothing to do with whether balls can be made with any cue BUT it does have a lot to do whether the person using said cue can play consistently at their highest level....

Good hitting cues ARE good hitting cues PERIOD... There's nothing subjective about it.


Actually, if that 2015 Mustang was the new 350GTR, and it were on Laguna Seca timing laps with a 2015 Porsche Turbo? Same professional driver in both? I wouldn't bet against the Mustang.

On cues? It really does depend on how it works for the end user...some like a stiff hit with feedback, some prefer a soft hit with a different feedback...some like laminated shafts, some prefer maple shafts...well, you get the drift.

Seems to me some folks are more interested in how a cue looks than how it plays. I guess that's fine too. Cars or cues, it's all good for the economy, right? ;)

mr.d.scottie
11-01-2015, 11:42 PM
Actually, if that 2015 Mustang was the new 350GTR, and it were on Laguna Seca timing laps with a 2015 Porsche Turbo? Same professional driver in both? I wouldn't bet against the Mustang.

On cues? It really does depend on how it works for the end user...some like a stiff hit with feedback, some prefer a soft hit with a different feedback...some like laminated shafts, some prefer maple shafts...well, you get the drift.

Seems to me some folks are more interested in how a cue looks than how it plays. I guess that's fine too. Cars or cues, it's all good for the economy, right? ;)
RIGHT, thank you. Lol. That's all I was bloody asking from the get go. What does the darn cue play like? Is it firm, soft, buttery, is it fat in the hand, skinny, does it taste like chicken?? Just wanted a little info.
You're totally right though, there is a difference in quality and feel and that cannot be ignored. Can we grab an old broom handle from the rack at the pool hall and make it work? Sure. Does that mean it doesn't matter? Well, there wouldn't be different shafts and butts and tips if it didn't! :D

pwd72s
11-02-2015, 12:01 AM
I should confess here that my playing cue is a Keith Josey and that I'm happy enough with it that I've stopped looking for that magic cue...which probably doesn't exist anyway. "Skins" does design work for Keith, is behind many of those celtic ornate designs. Keith also makes more traditional designs. Mine is one of those..4 needle sharp and even points with inlays.

mr.d.scottie
11-02-2015, 12:15 AM
I should confess here that my playing cue is a Keith Josey and that I'm happy enough with it that I've stopped looking for that magic cue...which probably doesn't exist anyway. "Skins" does design work for Keith, is behind many of those celtic ornate designs. Keith also makes more traditional designs. Mine is one of those..4 needle sharp and even points with inlays.
That's a sweet stick, man. I like more traditional styles myself.
If you're that happy with it, maybe you've found the magic cue for you. ;) And maybe that's what it's all about.. When you find that cue you don't want to walk out of the house without.

lorider
11-02-2015, 12:41 AM
RIGHT, thank you. Lol. That's all I was bloody asking from the get go. What does the darn cue play like? Is it firm, soft, buttery, is it fat in the hand, skinny, does it taste like chicken?? Just wanted a little info.
You're totally right though, there is a difference in quality and feel and that cannot be ignored. Can we grab an old broom handle from the rack at the pool hall and make it work? Sure. Does that mean it doesn't matter? Well, there wouldn't be different shafts and butts and tips if it didn't! :D

i am one of the guilty parties that helped get this thread side tracked.:o

i have no idea how the joss plays since i have never hit with one. i have hit some with a friends schon which i have heard feels pretty similar to a joss.

as some one else said ....you can change the tip and change how the cue hits . i bought a custom for 2,500.00 a few years ago simply because i fell in love with the look of it. i did not like the feel of how it hit and i went through 4 tips until i found one that felt good when i made contact with the cue ball.

changing shafts has the same effect.

i have 12 cues but i rotate only 4 of them playing league. all 4 have different tips and of course they all hit differently but it does not affect my game. actually i do play better with one cue than the others...strangely its the cheapest and plainest cue i own and i dont know what kind of tip it has on it.

bottom line is buy what you like...if you dont like the way it hits a simple tip change will change it completely......for better or worse.:grin:

Bavafongoul
11-02-2015, 12:43 AM
"Playing Well" is not an objective measurement.......it cannot be arbitrarily decided nor determined as long as the cue isn't defective.

When you like a cue, it seems there's basically only a couple of reasons.........either hits great (feel)........or looks great to you (esthetics).
After that, it's hard to come up with other reasons that do not fall into either of those categories.........and both of the aforementioned seem
to really be subjective determinations for each and every one of us as pool players.

So if you like a cue other than for its design and appearance, it's likely because it plays well (for you).

Matt B.

skins
11-02-2015, 05:34 AM
I should confess here that my playing cue is a Keith Josey and that I'm happy enough with it that I've stopped looking for that magic cue...which probably doesn't exist anyway. "Skins" does design work for Keith, is behind many of those celtic ornate designs. Keith also makes more traditional designs. Mine is one of those..4 needle sharp and even points with inlays.

Keith, Sherri, and I are sooo glad you love your Josey cue! You've always spoke very highly of them and the cues! I've been involved doing all the design work for every cue since 1999 as well the traditionaly pronged cues also.. Keep hitting em' good!

pwd72s
11-02-2015, 10:43 AM
A suggestion...Keith may wish to show a few pronged cues with those needle sharp and even points on his website...I've had others comment on my cue saying they were surprised he did "traditional" designs...Should the unthinkable happen to my Josey, I'd be on the phone to Keith, ordering a replacement.

Back to original topic. "Feel" is such an individual thing, it's really tough to describe. Once you find a cue that has the right feel for you...hang on to it. This board is full of posts by people who say they wished they'd kept XXXXX cue.