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View Full Version : US Open - All ball fouls while removing rack?


iusedtoberich
11-01-2015, 02:15 PM
I watched the US Open stream and know it was all ball fouls. The commentators mentioned several times that if the player moved a ball while removing the rack from the table, that was a foul.

I don't take that as the unquestioned truth, because the commentators were not all on the same page as far as rules of the event go. (a pet peeve of mine, but not the topic of this thread)

So, does anyone know for 100% fact that was there at the players meeting, or Jay, or someone else that played, if it was indeed a foul if a ball was touched while moving the rack?

My opinion on the matter, is the player is acting as referee, and not a player, when he is removing the rack. Therefore, the "all ball fouls" should not apply during this very specific function.

Thoughts? Anyone know for 100% what the rule was?

Wedge
11-01-2015, 02:18 PM
I watched the US Open stream and know it was all ball fouls. The commentators mentioned several times that if the player moved a ball while removing the rack from the table, that was a foul.

I don't take that as the unquestioned truth, because the commentators were not all on the same page as far as rules of the event go. (a pet peeve of mine, but not the topic of this thread)

So, does anyone know for 100% fact that was there at the players meeting, or Jay, or someone else that played, if it was indeed a foul if a ball was touched while moving the rack?

My opinion on the matter, is the player is acting as referee, and not a player, when he is removing the rack. Therefore, the "all ball fouls" should not apply during this very specific function.

Thoughts? Anyone know for 100% what the rule was?

I attended the players meeting and it was not discussed.

Wedge

kkdanamatt
11-01-2015, 02:41 PM
I attended the players meeting and it was not discussed.

Wedge

I was the Assistant TD and head referee and I had two assistant refs, each of whom knew the rules but we're not supposed to touch or re-spot balls unless I was not readily available to do so.

There was an unofficial rule that prevailed, which permitted the players (if they both agreed) to carefully remove the Accu-Rack when there was no ball sitting on top of the rack. No fouls would result if a ball were touched. There was not one single problem that occurred throughout the entire event.

Since there were as many as eleven matches going on at the same time, it would have been impossible for me to remove the Accu-Rack for every game.

When two balls were close together or frozen on the top of the Accu-Rack, the players would ask me to remove the rack and re-spot balls, if necessary.

Of course, as we got into the last day of the event, I was on every match and was able to remove the Accu-Rack more frequently.

Kudos to Chris Renfro for producing such a fine rack and to Ralf Souquet for his expert advice and input.

Sofla
11-01-2015, 02:45 PM
In one of his matches, Shane moved the 9 ball as he removed the 'rack.' I think it was in the Bergman match, on the tv table, but the ref didn't see it.

Shane kinda gestured to whoever was his opponent, and he slightly rocked the 9 ball back into the position it was at before the rack moved it on the way up. Play then resumed without a foul being called.

I have no idea whether a foul should have been called or not, but it was not. Perhaps only because the ref didn't see it?

realkingcobra
11-01-2015, 02:51 PM
I watched the US Open stream and know it was all ball fouls. The commentators mentioned several times that if the player moved a ball while removing the rack from the table, that was a foul.

I don't take that as the unquestioned truth, because the commentators were not all on the same page as far as rules of the event go. (a pet peeve of mine, but not the topic of this thread)

So, does anyone know for 100% fact that was there at the players meeting, or Jay, or someone else that played, if it was indeed a foul if a ball was touched while moving the rack?

My opinion on the matter, is the player is acting as referee, and not a player, when he is removing the rack. Therefore, the "all ball fouls" should not apply during this very specific function.

Thoughts? Anyone know for 100% what the rule was?

Removing the rack can only be done once the rack has been broke by the player breaking, but once the balls have come to rest, the rack has to be removed in order to prevent interference during the course of play. Removing the rack has nothing to do with the act of playing the game, it is simply a function that needed to be preformed in order for play to continue, and can be performed by anyone, including one of the players involved in that match, but has nothing to do with an "in the course of play" foul. Who would you assess the foul against if a neutral person removed the rack, and touched a ball in the process, is an actual referee excused from touching a ball in the course of the same action? The "play" of the game is on pause while the rack is being removed, plain and simple, and resumes after which the rack has been removed, but I guess that's just my opinion.

decent dennis
11-01-2015, 08:08 PM
I was the Assistant TD and head referee and I had two assistant refs, each of whom knew the rules but we're not supposed to touch or re-spot balls unless I was not readily available to do so.

There was an unofficial rule that prevailed, which permitted the players (if they both agreed) to carefully remove the Accu-Rack when there was no ball sitting on top of the rack. No fouls would result if a ball were touched. There was not one single problem that occurred throughout the entire event.

Since there were as many as eleven matches going on at the same time, it would have been impossible for me to remove the Accu-Rack for every game.

When two balls were close together or frozen on the top of the Accu-Rack, the players would ask me to remove the rack and re-spot balls, if necessary.

Of course, as we got into the last day of the event, I was on every match and was able to remove the Accu-Rack more frequently.

Kudos to Chris Renfro for producing such a fine rack and to Ralf Souquet for his expert advice and input.

Not impossible, would have slowed everything down but not impossible;)