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View Full Version : What is your goal when you push out?


poolplaya1
11-03-2015, 02:40 AM
Is it just to leave yourself the easiest shot that your opponent will pass back?

Or is it to leave your opponent the hardest shot that he will take on?

Are those basically the same thing?

What other factors do you take into account? Leave yourself shots that you are better at than the average player, so he passes back? Leave shots that seem easier than they are so he takes it on?

I am new to 9 ball and I want to think more deeply about the goals of a push out, and the philosophy involved therein.

Thanks for the info

Colin Colenso
11-03-2015, 04:23 AM
I would think it's finding a push out position where you consider yourself about a 60% chance and your opponent less so, of making a shot which improves one's position in the game.

If you can't find a shot where you think you have some expertise above your opponent, then you're in trouble.

Colin

philly
11-03-2015, 05:55 AM
Obviously it depends on who I'm playing. If I am playing a very good player and I have sight but no shot I play a safe rather than push because I know the better player will safe me and put me in jail. If I have no sight I push to where a safe can be played and hope my opponent does not execute or if he passes the shot back to me I can safe him.
If I am playing someone that does not see the table that well I will usually leave a tough shot and hope he passes back to me so I can either pocket the ball or leave him blocked by playing safe.

Black-Balled
11-03-2015, 06:06 AM
Confuson...

7forlife
11-03-2015, 06:07 AM
Know your opponent and know your ability.
Don't get caught in the illusion that you have to play a lock up safe every time.
(a) One only needs to not leave a shot
(b) Don't leave a shot where a skilled player can lock you up
(c) Don't leave a shot where a return safe is beyond you ability to hit
I would say these are the things you think of, if you have to push. "If I push here and he takes it what can he leave me (best case scenario) what can he leave me (worst case scenario) will I be able to hit it or put it some place odd, if he passes it back what can I leave him (best case) what can I leave him (worst case) will I be able to leave him odd.
Maybe you should leave him a shot on the 1 or whatever ball and tie up another group, if you tie up a group use the lowest balls that way he has to get to it asap, cause if you tie up the 6&7 he has at least 3-4 chances to break it out.
Remember you're the underdog in a push so shooting for a 50% chance is not a bad percentage.

Aaron_S
11-03-2015, 06:24 AM
Really depends on the layout, and I would also say this is a case where I would consider the strengths/weaknesses of my opponent. My main objective when I am forced to push out is to make the most of it - be as productive as possible since I'm already at a disadvantage. I'll examine the layout closely to see where problems are, or what I may be able to accomplish on the push that will improve my odds of winning. I'm always going to try to leave a shot (offensive or defensive) that is borderline, but I want to maximize the productivity of the shot as much as possible. Just a few examples:

* If the rack is wide open and my opponent is capable of running out, I may look to tie up balls on a push out.

* If the money ball is wired up for an easy combo (a dead 3/9 combo, for example), I may use my push out to move those balls.

* If I want to push out to a safety, I may use my pushout to create blockers for me to hide behind if the shot is passed back to me.

* If the 2-ball is hopelessly tied up, I may push to a relatively easy shot on the 1 in the hope that my opponent will pocket the ball but fail to come up with a shot on the 2.

* If the 1-ball is hanging, and I know I will probably leave a shot for my opponent, I may try to move the 2 somewhere tough for position, or perhaps move other balls to force him to play tight position or a combination on the 2.

There are dozens of scenarios I could think of, but the key is to make the most of a bad situation - consider the layout and your opponent, and try to be as productive as possible.

Best of luck,
Aaron

Jude Rosenstock
11-03-2015, 06:48 AM
Know your opponent and know your ability.
Don't get caught in the illusion that you have to play a lock up safe every time.
(a) One only needs to not leave a shot
(b) Don't leave a shot where a skilled player can lock you up
(c) Don't leave a shot where a return safe is beyond you ability to hit
I would say these are the things you think of, if you have to push. "If I push here and he takes it what can he leave me (best case scenario) what can he leave me (worst case scenario) will I be able to hit it or put it some place odd, if he passes it back what can I leave him (best case) what can I leave him (worst case) will I be able to leave him odd.
Maybe you should leave him a shot on the 1 or whatever ball and tie up another group, if you tie up a group use the lowest balls that way he has to get to it asap, cause if you tie up the 6&7 he has at least 3-4 chances to break it out.
Remember you're the underdog in a push so shooting for a 50% chance is not a bad percentage.

All of this is great advice. I would like to reiterate, pushing means you are inherently likely to foul and/or lose the game. You're pushing to eliminate the likelihood of fouling and bring the game to a coin-flip scenario. There's no advantage to be had. I've seen players push to jump shots which is often a very bad choice. That said, pushing to an easy kick, especially against a pro, is often not a bad idea. Against most amateurs, leaving no shot or a long shot will often do the trick. Remember, this is 9ball and sometimes distance is its own safety.

Just one last thing, when you push, you're going to end up losing a share of the games. It doesn't mean it was a bad push. The rules are just geared to favor your opponent in this instance. Try focusing less on a single push and pay more attention to your overall theme.

kagewest
11-03-2015, 07:25 AM
It's a 5 word simple answer
To not loose the game. Over complicated by everyone as always.

Keith Jawahir
11-03-2015, 07:37 AM
one small addition.... if I know my opponent has a very low percentage of running the rack, I push into an easy shot so they'll clear a few balls off the table for me before missing. Risky, but it's worked out in my favor more often than not.

philly
11-03-2015, 07:41 AM
It's a 5 word simple answer
To not loose the game. Over complicated by everyone as always.

Agreed that we make the game too complicated sometimes but your answer in this instance is an over simplification. I am sure when you are confronted by a possible push you have scenarios that you consider other than "I don't want to lose this game." The OP was looking for help with the thought process. It was just his 34th post and he might be a newbee. He was trying to gain knowledge from an old pro like you.

Jude Rosenstock
11-03-2015, 07:46 AM
one small addition.... if I know my opponent has a very low percentage of running the rack, I push into an easy shot so they'll clear a few balls off the table for me before missing. Risky, but it's worked out in my favor more often than not.

This is just wrong. I'm sorry but this doesn't help you. The most winning is going to happen when you improve your chances of regaining control of the table. I wouldn't want to give my opponent control no matter who I'm playing.

7forlife
11-03-2015, 07:57 AM
Agreed that we make the game too complicated sometimes but your answer in this instance is an over simplification. I am sure when you are confronted by a possible push you have scenarios that you consider other than "I don't want to lose this game." The OP was looking for help with the thought process. It was just his 34th post and he might be a newbee. He was trying to gain knowledge from an old pro like you.

he's only done twice an many post as the OP soooooo. Now that doesn't make any less the wiser but his reply was about as useful as the G in lasagna or the P in Pterodactyl

justadub
11-03-2015, 08:00 AM
he's only done twice an many post as the OP soooooo. Now that doesn't make any less the wiser but his reply was about as useful as the G in lasagna or the P in Pterodactyl

Only twice as many posts using this screen name, you mean....

philly
11-03-2015, 08:06 AM
he's only done twice an many post as the OP soooooo. Now that doesn't make any less the wiser but his reply was about as useful as the G in lasagna or the P in Pterodactyl

Yes. Did you catch the sarcasm?

philly
11-03-2015, 08:07 AM
Only twice as many posts using this screen name, you mean....


Are you suggesting he is one of our banned bretheren?

justadub
11-03-2015, 08:10 AM
Are you suggesting he is one of our banned bretheren?

chuckle.... ya think?

philly
11-03-2015, 08:12 AM
chuckle.... ya think?

20 questions. Would he be a type of dog?

Matt
11-03-2015, 08:14 AM
If my opponent and I are closely matched, I try to push out to a weak safe that gives the next shooter roughly a 50/50 shot at gaining control of the table by either making the shot or executing a return safety. As long as the object ball isn't hanging in the pocket, that usually means leaving a kick shot. If I already have such a shot, I will take it rather than push out.

If I know I have an advantage on a particular shot, I may try to factor that in, but I don't usually think that much into it.

justadub
11-03-2015, 08:14 AM
20 questions. Would he be a type of dog?

I'm still stumped on this one....its always a fun game, trying figure out who it is/was. Eventually they fall back into past references or posting behaviors.

Might as well get some fun out of the exercise.

TheThaiger
11-03-2015, 08:31 AM
I'm still stumped on this one....its always a fun game, trying figure out who it is/was. Eventually they fall back into past references or posting behaviors.

Might as well get some fun out of the exercise.

It's me, isn't it? It usually is.

:rolleyes:

justadub
11-03-2015, 08:34 AM
It's me, isn't it? It usually is.

:rolleyes:

Ha!

Sometimes, I suppose. Not this time tho. You have a sense of humor.

justadub
11-03-2015, 08:37 AM
Really depends on the layout, and I would also say this is a case where I would consider the strengths/weaknesses of my opponent. My main objective when I am forced to push out is to make the most of it - be as productive as possible since I'm already at a disadvantage. I'll examine the layout closely to see where problems are, or what I may be able to accomplish on the push that will improve my odds of winning. I'm always going to try to leave a shot (offensive or defensive) that is borderline, but I want to maximize the productivity of the shot as much as possible. Just a few examples:

* If the rack is wide open and my opponent is capable of running out, I may look to tie up balls on a push out.

* If the money ball is wired up for an easy combo (a dead 3/9 combo, for example), I may use my push out to move those balls.

* If I want to push out to a safety, I may use my pushout to create blockers for me to hide behind if the shot is passed back to me.

* If the 2-ball is hopelessly tied up, I may push to a relatively easy shot on the 1 in the hope that my opponent will pocket the ball but fail to come up with a shot on the 2.

* If the 1-ball is hanging, and I know I will probably leave a shot for my opponent, I may try to move the 2 somewhere tough for position, or perhaps move other balls to force him to play tight position or a combination on the 2.

There are dozens of scenarios I could think of, but the key is to make the most of a bad situation - consider the layout and your opponent, and try to be as productive as possible.

Best of luck,
Aaron

Since I contributed to derailing this thread, I'd like to bring it back by noting that I appreciated this post, a lot. Good stuff to think about.

ChicagoJoe
11-03-2015, 08:57 AM
My first thought is to push out to a place where i know my opponent is going to take it and play safe to a spot where i like my chances at kicking safe back at him. Otherwise, i'm pushing to a corner or a spot where the ball doesn't pocket and the only choice is to play safe.

Aaron_S
11-03-2015, 09:00 AM
Since I contributed to derailing this thread, I'd like to bring it back by noting that I appreciated this post, a lot. Good stuff to think about.

Thank you sir.

The game of 9-ball has its flaws, but I think it is underrated by many as a strategy game, so I often try to point out opportunities for players to think a little more deeply and get creative with their strategic play. The push shot, being wide open, is a great opportunity to get creative IMO. If I figure to be a slight dog in a push situation anyway, I'm going to hedge as much as possible by trying to do something productive - even if it means taking on slightly more risk.

Thanks again,
Aaron

HawaiianEye
11-03-2015, 09:50 AM
The key to pushing out is to already know what you are going to do if the shot is passed back to you.

If you don't already know what you are going to do, why did you push there?

Zphix
11-03-2015, 10:13 AM
I try to push to a spot where I've got the advantage in playing the shot (if he passes it back), and he's not the favorite in the event that he takes it.

So, if I'm playing someone much much shorter than me then I might push to a jump-shot that is harder for him to reach than it is for me.

That's just an example but you get the idea.

the Professor
11-03-2015, 02:05 PM
Is it just to leave yourself the easiest shot that your opponent will pass back?

Or is it to leave your opponent the hardest shot that he will take on?

Are those basically the same thing?

What other factors do you take into account? Leave yourself shots that you are better at than the average player, so he passes back? Leave shots that seem easier than they are so he takes it on?

I am new to 9 ball and I want to think more deeply about the goals of a push out, and the philosophy involved therein.

Thanks for the info

I think your goal is simple. To get to shoot again at some point in the rack with a better shot than you pushed out from.

poolplaya1
11-03-2015, 02:50 PM
Thanks everyone, I learned a lot from this thread so far. I am really glad I posted this question.

railbird99
11-03-2015, 03:16 PM
To win the game.

Bank it
11-03-2015, 03:29 PM
I'm pushing to a spot & shot I'm comfortable with & does not offer the same comfort to my opponent. For me that's generally a bank.

railbird99
11-03-2015, 03:47 PM
I'm pushing to a spot & shot I'm comfortable with & does not offer the same comfort to my opponent. For me that's generally a bank.

So you never push out against pros

Bank it
11-03-2015, 03:55 PM
So you never push out against pros


Not all banks are created equal, especially multiple rails. [emoji56]