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View Full Version : Break Stats -- Van Boening vs. Chinahov 10-Ball Challenge Match, Nov. 6, 2015


AtLarge
11-06-2015, 06:28 PM
Here are some results from the ABN Billiards Challenge Match -- Shane Van Boening vs. Ruslan Chinahov race to 30 in 10-Ball -- played today at the Olympic Stadium in Moscow. Free streaming was provided by genipool14. Chinahov won 30-22 after the match was tied at 15.

The conditions for this call-shot 10-ball match included the following: 9-foot Dynamic III table, Simonis green cloth, Aramith balls, measles cue ball, racking template (Magic Rack, I think), jump cues allowed, winner breaks from outside a two-diamonds-wide non-break box, and breaker racks for himself with the 1-ball on the foot string and the 2- and 3-balls on the back corners.

Van Boening broke 22 times, with the following results:

Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and won the game -- 6 (27%)
Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and lost the game -- 6 (27%)
Broke dry or fouled but won the game -- 3 (14%)
Broke dry or fouled and lost the game -- 7 (32%)


Chinahov broke 30 times, with the following results:

Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and won the game -- 14 (47%)
Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and lost the game -- 8 (27%)
Broke dry or fouled but won the game -- 3 (10%)
Broke dry or fouled and lost the game -- 5 (17%)


For the two players combined, the breaker made at least one ball and did not foul 65% of the time (34 of 52), won 50% of the games (26 of 52), won 59% of the games (20 of 34) in which he made a ball on the break without fouling, broke and ran 29% of the games (15 of 52), and broke and ran 44% of the games (15 of 34) in which he made a ball on the break without fouling.

Break-and-run games -- on all breaks:

Van Boening -- 3 of 22 (14%)
Chinahov -- 12 of 30 (40%)
Total -- 15 of 52 (29%)

Break-and-run games -- on successful breaks (made at least one ball and did not foul):

Van Boening -- 3 of 12 (25%)
Chinahov -- 12 of 22 (55%)
Total -- 15 of 34 (44%)

Fouls:

Van Boening -- 6 (including 1 on the break)
Chinahov -- 6 (including 2 on the break)
Total -- 12


Missed shots (approximately):

Van Boening -- 9
Chinahov -- 20
Total -- 29


Run-outs from first shot after break:

By Van Boening after his own successful break -- 3 of 12 (25%)
By Van Boening after Chinahov's failed break -- 2 of 8 (25%)
By Van Boening, total -- 5 of 20 (25%)



By Chinahov after his own successful break -- 12 of 22 (55%)
By Chinahov after Van Boening's failed break -- 3 of 10 (30%)
By Chinahov, total -- 15 of 32 (47%)




Total for Van Boening and Chinahov -- 20 of 52 (38%)


Run-outs from first shot after Van Boening's break:

By Van Boening -- 3 of 12 (25%)
By Chinahov -- 3 of 10 (30%)
Total -- 6 of 22 (27%)


Run-outs from first shot after Chinahov's break:

By Chinahov -- 12 of 22 (55%)
By Van Boening -- 2 of 8 (25%)
Total -- 14 of 30 (47%)


Match length = 4 hours and 48 minutes, for an average of 5.6 minutes per game. [Note: This included racking and two timeouts of about 10 min. each.]

spartan
11-06-2015, 06:41 PM
Awesome stuff Atlarge
It is great that you now added more to repertoire with more stats like missed shots , runouts
So besides Chinakov breaking much better , Shane also did not capitalise on Chinakov's bigger number of missed shots (Chinakov has double number of missed shots)
Thanks :D

BeiberLvr
11-06-2015, 07:02 PM
Awesome stuff Atlarge
It is great that you now added more to repertoire with more stats like missed shots , runouts
So besides Chinakov breaking much better , Shane also did not capitalise on Chinakov's bigger number of missed shots (Chinakov has double number of missed shots)
Thanks :D

I didn't watch the entire match, but Shane not capitalizing on Ruslan's missed shots really depends on where he left Shane after missing.

spartan
11-06-2015, 07:17 PM
I didn't watch the entire match, but Shane not capitalizing on Ruslan's missed shots really depends on where he left Shane after missing.

I saw the last 5 to 10 racks and Shane did fail to capitalise on number of missed shots by Ruslan
You are right that Ruslan may have left Shane bad shot after miss and may not make much difference if Ruslan had say few more missed shots
But here Ruslan had 11 more missed shots- at their level even if we take 2 to 3 missed shots per rack that could have been 4 racks that Shane should have won. And since Ruslan won 30-22 that could have been 26-26 :)

realkingcobra
11-06-2015, 07:23 PM
Has it crossed anyone's mind that maybe, just maybe...Shane wasn't suppose to win?;)

BasementDweller
11-06-2015, 07:30 PM
No...only yours RKC.

BasementDweller
11-06-2015, 07:31 PM
I did wonder if he was walking into a trap with the breaking rules. It was obviously a big disadvantage for him.

realkingcobra
11-06-2015, 07:39 PM
I did wonder if he was walking into a trap with the breaking rules. It was obviously a big disadvantage for him.

When was the last time you saw Shane run so few racks, and miss so much, and not punish his opponent for failing to make a ball, and turn the table back over to him?:rolleyes:

(((Satori)))
11-06-2015, 07:44 PM
When was the last time you saw Shane run so few racks, and miss so much, and not punish his opponent for failing to make a ball, and turn the table back over to him?:rolleyes:

Where are you going with this?

Shane has bad karma?
Shane dumped?

What?

realkingcobra
11-06-2015, 07:59 PM
[QUOT E=(((Satori)));5352086]Where are you going with this?

Shane has bad karma
Shane dumped?

What?[/QUOTE]

I just feel that with Russia entering the pool playing world, and has actually bought some Diamond 9ft pool tables 10fts' included, that this could have been more of an ambassador role for Shane as opposed to a money match, and I'm not saying Diamond has anything to do with this, because they wouldn't in the first place. I'm just wondering is all, that's it. It would actually make since to me as to why he played so bad and lost. Like I said, maybe he really wasn't suppose to win, as it would further inspire more Russians to pick up a cue and start playing pool...if they had a local hero...who beat the great SVB. Can you mention any other American pool players who've played a challenge match in Russia.....other than Earl Strickland, who played Russian pyramid over there as well;)

one stroke
11-06-2015, 08:11 PM
Has it crossed anyone's mind that maybe, just maybe...Shane wasn't suppose to win?;)

Yep ,

1

one stroke
11-06-2015, 08:19 PM
[QUOT E=(((Satori)));5352086]Where are you going with this?

Shane has bad karma
Shane dumped?

What?

I just feel that with Russia entering the pool playing world, and has actually bought some Diamond 9ft pool tables 10fts' included, that this could have been more of an ambassador role for Shane as opposed to a money match, and I'm not saying Diamond has anything to do with this, because they wouldn't in the first place. I'm just wondering is all, that's it. It would actually make since to me as to why he played so bad and lost. Like I said, maybe he really wasn't suppose to win, as it would further inspire more Russians to pick up a cue and start playing pool...if they had a local hero...who beat the great SVB. Can you mention any other American pool players who've played a challenge match in Russia.....other than Earl Strickland, who played Russian pyramid over there as well;)[/QUOTE]
In case anyone hadn't noticed Shane has not been on top of his game he's lost a few challenge matches didn't play well at the open or Stienways
Like Tiger once the chink in the amour gets exposed players take notice and don't feel beaten before the first ball is struck some idiots will claim it's the variances but the smart people realize that the gap in talent is no where what they want to think that it is and and it has little to do with the outcome
Shane simply is not Tiger in his day there's more than a couple who can beat him at any given time

1

Cardigan Kid
11-06-2015, 08:34 PM
Did anyone else find it interesting that the break from outside the box rule was only found out by Shane during a pre match interview the day before? I've watched a ton of ten ball and this was a first for me. AtLarge, have you seen this rule in action before?

The stats here, and from what I saw in the match, it was apparent that Shane was searching for an answer to the new break rule. I saw his usual power/full 1 ball break from the left a few times, then more of a cut shot break from the left side come up dry and with no control on the one ball (like Shane does with his usual break) Later, he went to the right from where Ruslan was breaking from and tried there with minimal results.

Ruslan on the other hand was breaking phenomenal, with multiple balls down plenty of times. One rack had 4 balls down with the four hanging, setting up a nice runout.

I'm shocked at the missed ball number, because it appeared Ruslan never missed. It was a great performance on his part.

Thanks for the diligent stat keeping, AtLarge. Always the best.
:thumbup:

realkingcobra
11-06-2015, 08:39 PM
I just feel that with Russia entering the pool playing world, and has actually bought some Diamond 9ft pool tables 10fts' included, that this could have been more of an ambassador role for Shane as opposed to a money match, and I'm not saying Diamond has anything to do with this, because they wouldn't in the first place. I'm just wondering is all, that's it. It would actually make since to me as to why he played so bad and lost. Like I said, maybe he really wasn't suppose to win, as it would further inspire more Russians to pick up a cue and start playing pool...if they had a local hero...who beat the great SVB. Can you mention any other American pool players who've played a challenge match in Russia.....other than Earl Strickland, who played Russian pyramid over there as well;)
In case anyone hadn't noticed Shane has not been on top of his game he's lost a few challenge matches didn't play well at the open or Stienways
Like Tiger once the chink in the amour gets exposed players take notice and don't feel beaten before the first ball is struck some idiots will claim it's the variances but the smart people realize that the gap in talent is no where what they want to think that it is and and it has little to do with the outcome
Shane simply is not Tiger in his day there's more than a couple who can beat him at any given time

1[/QUOTE]
Ummmm, I don't know if I'd call it chink in Shane's armor, if he has to bend to their rules in order to play him...would you? Is everyone scared to play Shane straight up even without requesting some kind of change in the rules, or special requirements before they can match up....naaaa, there's a line of players waiting to play Shane...straight up even...chink or no chink...right?

Yeah, you're probably right, I mean, Shane not playing his best and losing to promote pool in Russia....well, that would stand as much chance of the heavyweight boxing champion of the world....getting into the ring with a wrestler, yeah....not much chance of that happening;)

kagewest
11-06-2015, 08:41 PM
I wouldent put it past Russia to pay shane to dump. I wouldent blame shane for doing it either money is hard to come by is this sport. But purely speculation.

one stroke
11-06-2015, 08:44 PM
Did anyone else find it interesting that the break from outside the box rule was only found out by Shane during a pre match interview the day before? I've watched a ton of ten ball and this was a first for me. AtLarge, have you seen this rule in action before?

The stats here, and from what I saw in the match, it was apparent that Shane was searching for an answer to the new break rule. I saw his usual power/full 1 ball break from the left a few times, then more of a cut shot break from the left side come up dry and with no control on the one ball (like Shane does with his usual break) Later, he went to the right from where Ruslan was breaking from and tried there with minimal results.

Ruslan on the other hand was breaking phenomenal, with multiple balls down plenty of times. One rack had 4 balls down with the four hanging, setting up a nice runout.

I'm shocked at the missed ball number, because it appeared Ruslan never missed. It was a great performance on his part.

Thanks for the diligent stat keeping, AtLarge. Always the best.
:thumbup:

I didn't watch but if you told me s guy missed 20 balls against Shane in a race to 30 no way I'm believe he lost unless the majority was 2 way shots and if that is the case this guys a unbelievable player

1

Sloppy Pockets
11-06-2015, 09:01 PM
I'm shocked at the missed ball number, because it appeared Ruslan never missed. It was a great performance on his part.

It seemed to me that the majority of his misses happened early in the match. Shane did capitalize on these mistakes and took an early lead. They both played poorly in the beginning, but by the mid-point break Chinahov had recovered and wasn't missing much.
Shane never seemed to get in stroke until very late in the match. By then it was too late.

BeiberLvr
11-06-2015, 09:21 PM
If anyone wants to see what might be Ruslan's top gear, watch this match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL0H9fnta0U

Still don't know a lot about him, but I'm definitely a fan.

robsnotes4u
11-06-2015, 09:25 PM
Sometimes you just lose, or just get beat. One match.

RKC what did you think of the table? Looked like a 9 foot valley


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Poolmanis
11-06-2015, 09:37 PM
I´ve played and installed quite a few Dynamic´s in the past.

They are quite a close to be a copy of GC 3. They got okay leveling screws and all but thats it.
Olympic 1 was nice table. After that manufacturing went to China and slate materials were worse also.

Many times dynamic have to ping pong rails and not so level slates.
I personally dislike em quite a lot. Olympic(Dynamic)1 was good table. Haven´t played newest ones. Maybe 5 years since I last time played on Dynamic.

one stroke
11-06-2015, 09:58 PM
It seemed to me that the majority of his misses happened early in the match. Shane did capitalize on these mistakes and took an early lead. They both played poorly in the beginning, but by the mid-point break Chinahov had recovered and wasn't missing much.
Shane never seemed to get in stroke until very late in the match. By then it was too late.

Coupled with the other guy was coasting in at that point we don't know how it would have ended had it gone to 50 but my money would certainly have been on the other guy

1

Poolmanis
11-06-2015, 09:59 PM
I am now watching little bit of match and Chinakov break remind me nineteens 9-ball break somehow. Just hair cut to middle of table side seem to get best results.

realkingcobra
11-06-2015, 11:11 PM
If anyone wants to see what might be Ruslan's top gear, watch this match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL0H9fnta0U

Still don't know a lot about him, but I'm definitely a fan.

At the break of game 5, 17:40 Rusian' broke, made a ball in the near side pocket...then went and sat down as Daryl took over the table...why? No foul on the break...watch it and see.

AtLarge
11-06-2015, 11:48 PM
At the break of game 5, 17:40 Rusian' broke, made a ball in the near side pocket...then went and sat down as Daryl took over the table...why? No foul on the break...watch it and see.

In many 9-Ball events in Europe, they use an illegal-break rule, or what they call the three-point rule. At least 3 balls must either be pocketed or reach the head string. Failure to do that is deemed non-satisfactory, and the opponent has the choice of accepting the table as is or giving it back to the breaker.

In the cited example, one ball was pocketed but just one reached the head string. So only two of the three points were achieved. Daryl accepted the table and shot the 2-ball.

[An illegal-break rule was also used at the recent US Open 9-Ball Championship, but the center string was the determining line for the "three points" rather than the head string.]

AtLarge
11-07-2015, 12:12 AM
When was the last time you saw Shane run so few racks, and miss so much, and not punish his opponent for failing to make a ball, and turn the table back over to him?:rolleyes:

Two months ago in his 10-Ball challenge match with Dechaine at Snookers in Rhode Island. Shane was successful on only 7 of 20 breaks, had only one B&R on those 20 breaks, and had about 14 misses and 7 fouls in a race to 21.

I totally reject any suggestion that something nefarious was going on in Shane's match with Chinahov. Shane has been spotty at best in recent months. Chinahov has been playing really well from what I have seen. Shane just played well below his best in this match. Chinahov took a big lead by winning 6 games in a row following the second timeout, which was taken with the score knotted at 15-15. Chinahov had a 3-pack in that stretch and made all 60 balls in those 6 games. The lead varied from 5 to 10 after that, but Shane never got close.

AtLarge
11-07-2015, 12:14 AM
Did anyone else find it interesting that the break from outside the box rule was only found out by Shane during a pre match interview the day before? I've watched a ton of ten ball and this was a first for me. AtLarge, have you seen this rule in action before? ...

I've never seen that break rule used before, but I think someone in another thread said it has been used in Europe some in 10-Ball.

Ron Swanson
11-07-2015, 02:27 AM
I've never seen that break rule used before, but I think someone in another thread said it has been used in Europe some in 10-Ball.

Yes. It's hardly the end of the world, either - break rules change all the time with no apparent armageddon.

beetle
11-07-2015, 06:25 AM
When was the last time you saw Shane's opponent with a B&R of 40%? Sorry, calling BS on your conspiracy theory.

When was the last time you saw Shane run so few racks, and miss so much, and not punish his opponent for failing to make a ball, and turn the table back over to him?:rolleyes:

Sloppy Pockets
11-07-2015, 08:01 AM
If anyone wants to see what might be Ruslan's top gear, watch this match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL0H9fnta0U

Still don't know a lot about him, but I'm definitely a fan.

That was a treat!

Yeah, all I knew of the guy before the U.S. Open was that he is a top 14.1 player. He's only 23 years old, and he's already playing at a very sophisticated level. He's gonna be around for a while, that's for sure.

Sloppy Pockets
11-07-2015, 08:15 AM
When was the last time you saw Shane's opponent with a B&R of 40%? Sorry, calling BS on your conspiracy theory.

Exactly. Funny how some folks are saying that Shane is only an average player once you declaw him on the break. :rolleyes: Well, how might the match have gone if Chinahov only had a 14% B&R average and Shane had his normal break working?

FWIW this is not the standard breaking format that is used in Europe. During an interview with Alison Fischer at Steinway she asked him, "Is outside-the-box breaking typical for the way you're used to playing?", to which he responded (trying to hide a slight smile), "No... not really."

So, it was a new breaking format to both of them. Ruslan figured it out for that table, Shane didn't. The break is huge. Chinahov's break in this match was just incredible once he got it dialed in. All other things being relatively equal, the break was the deciding factor once again.

spartan
11-07-2015, 08:19 AM
I totally reject any suggestion that something nefarious was going on in Shane's match with Chinahov. Shane has been spotty at best in recent months. Chinahov has been playing really well from what I have seen. Shane just played well below his best in this match. Chinahov took a big lead by winning 6 games in a row following the second timeout, which was taken with the score knotted at 15-15. Chinahov had a 3-pack in that stretch and made all 60 balls in those 6 games. The lead varied from 5 to 10 after that, but Shane never got close.

Tell it to them. AtLarge
The silly conspiracy theories that these snakes and ignoramuses conjure up, you would think this is some Cold War Game of Death or something. This is a pretty insignificant match, no biggie
Geez :grin-square:

AtLarge
11-07-2015, 11:46 AM
Side note -- In the Kremlin Cup today, Chinahov knocked Van Boening out of the tournament 8-5 and will face Immonen in the finals tomorrow. The tournament did not use an "outside-the-box" breaking requirement.

(((Satori)))
11-07-2015, 11:53 AM
Side note -- In the Kremlin Cup today, Chinahov knocked Van Boening out of the tournament 8-5 and will face Immonen in the finals tomorrow. The tournament did not use an "outside-the-box" breaking requirement.

Meh!

If Ruslan wants to prove himself he will need to beat Karen Corr in a race to 100. That will give him something like a 1200 Fargo and with all that comes respect.

Until then these victories over Shane mean little when you know about variance and are hip to all the gaffs like a few select azb'ers.

Poolmanis
11-07-2015, 12:06 PM
I´m not sure(been off from competitive pool for ages) but i believe outside box break is only official european championship tournaments(and finnish pool federation official tournaments).. as inside of box at 9-ball.

Mjantti could confirm if he sees this comment...

snucar
11-07-2015, 12:16 PM
What I would really like to know is how many people were actually breathing inside the stadium yesterday and today. Perhaps that's the reason behind Shane's defeats, just like in Doha (scientifically proved).

Black-Balled
11-07-2015, 12:21 PM
It was said in this here thread...if you have any wonder about chinahov's skilll level, check out this year's us olen brackets. He did quite well. And didnt play any pushovers either.

AtLarge
11-08-2015, 03:59 AM
And Mr. Chinahov just beat Mr. Immonen 9-8 to win the Kremlin Cup.

Ruslan was successful on 8 of 9 breaks (including 3 B&R's), making the 2nd-row ball(s). He was dry once. Mika was dry twice and scratched twice. But Mika still got to the hill first (8-7) thanks to some misses by Ruslan. Then Ruslan ran out the penultimate game after one of Mika's scratches on the break. In the decider, Ruslan missed the 1-ball jacked up over the 8-ball, but slopped it safe. Mika hit the 1-ball on a kick but left an easy shot, and Ruslan was out for the win.

Quite a 3 days for the lanky Russian!

Ron Swanson
11-08-2015, 04:06 AM
Big breakers with home advantage winning matches...hmmm why does that sound familiar?

:confused:

BeiberLvr
11-08-2015, 05:03 AM
Top snooker players that can only win at snooker...hmmmm why does that sound familiar?


#confusedemoji