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View Full Version : APA 5 - How much weight would you give?


bobprobst
11-06-2015, 11:33 PM
Hypothetical.

Race to 7. 9 ball. You set the stakes.

I'm asking for one on the wire, all the breaks and the last 3 plus one additional push during each rack.

What's your bet and your speed.

Just asking :wink:

BmoreMoney
11-06-2015, 11:40 PM
Hypothetical.

Race to 7. 9 ball. You set the stakes.

I'm asking for one on the wire, all the breaks and the last 3 plus one additional push during each rack.

What's your bet and your speed.

Just asking :wink:

Whatever u wanna do minus the mid rack push out. Sounds like a gaff and prob no one but top player would try it. I know I wouldn't if for no other reason then its a pita - and I would just tell u to keep practicing till u got better and didn't need that particular spot! Hope someone gives it to you, GL.

sixpack
11-06-2015, 11:47 PM
Hypothetical.

Race to 7. 9 ball. You set the stakes.

I'm asking for one on the wire, all the breaks and the last 3 plus one additional push during each rack.

What's your bet and your speed.

Just asking :wink:

What's funny is that I know APA 5s that could give that spot to other APA 5s. :)

kagewest
11-07-2015, 01:19 AM
I know 5's that could give 7's that spot. APA ranking system is fubar. Pretty sure a middle schooler that flunked 6th grade came up with it!

RichSchultz
11-07-2015, 04:31 AM
I'm a 5, who was a 6 but went down after a couple losses. Point being, ya never know with a 5 just how good they are. I've crushed 7s and 8s, and I've been beaten by a 1. 5s are tough.

trob
11-07-2015, 05:11 AM
I'm a 5, who was a 6 but went down after a couple losses. Point being, ya never know with a 5 just how good they are. I've crushed 7s and 8s, and I've been beaten by a 1. 5s are tough.

I always laugh at guys like you at Apa who beat me and celebrate like they did something. I beat a 9!! Mean while I still made 30 more balls them them. Lol I have fun at Apa leagues but beating someone with a spot never felt like a win to me. Probably why as a player coming I never asked for one while gambling.

To answer your question who knows. Ive heard that at nationals you'll play 5s and 6s who will string racks on you. I would never give a spot based on someone's Apa or tap handy cap

RichSchultz
11-07-2015, 05:21 AM
I always laugh at guys like you at Apa who beat me and celebrate like they did something. I beat a 9!! Mean while I still made 30 more balls them them. Lol I have fun at Apa leagues but beating someone with a spot never felt like a win to me. Probably why as a player coming I never asked for one while gambling.

To answer your question who knows. Ive heard that at nationals you'll play 5s and 6s who will string racks on you. I would never give a spot based on someone's Apa or tap handy cap
No need to be jerky. "You laugh at guys like me?" Come on, man. Besides, when i say I crushed a 7 or 8, I mean making more balls than them...not talking about the weight. You're one of those sanctimonious people who make it less fun.

RBC
11-07-2015, 05:29 AM
To answer the original question, it would depend on how good that 5 plays. As has been stated, an APA 5 can have a very broad skill level depending on where they established their rating and how good they are at manipulating the system.

Handicap systems are tricky. For one to be truly effective, the handicap should narrow the gap between skill levels, but cannot overcome it. Anytime the weaker player has the real advantage, the system will corrupt itself.

The higher skilled player should always have the advantage.

The winner should be decided by who plays the best relative to their skill level. Sometimes the lower skill player will have a good set, and win. Other times the higher skill player will show his experience and skill and overcome the handicap.

Anytime the handicap is such that the lower skilled player has the advantage, the incentive to become a better player goes away. Also, the incentive to cheat by sandbagging goes through the roof.


Royce

Solomon
11-07-2015, 05:32 AM
I always laugh at guys like you at Apa who beat me and celebrate like they did something. I beat a 9!! Mean while I still made 30 more balls them them. Lol I have fun at Apa leagues but beating someone with a spot never felt like a win to me. Probably why as a player coming I never asked for one while gambling.

To answer your question who knows. Ive heard that at nationals you'll play 5s and 6s who will string racks on you. I would never give a spot based on someone's Apa or tap handy cap
This reminds me of a situation I often have with a buddy of mine. We've both been playing pool for a while, but I'm obviously better than he is (our over all win/loss record is hugely slanted in my favor). However, he will not for the life of him admit that I'm a better player. Occasionally, we'll play for a few bucks just to make the game more interesting and I've never lost a set to him. So I told him that I'd be more than willing to give him a handicap if he'd just admit that I'm better than he is. He's more than willing to accept a handicap, but I guess his ego/pride won't let those words come out of his mouth so he never gets a handicap. I tried to explain to him that accepting a handicap is the same thing is admitting that I'm the better player, but he doesn't want to hear it.

LIAKOS27
11-07-2015, 05:35 AM
Hypothetical.

Race to 7. 9 ball. You set the stakes.

I'm asking for one on the wire, all the breaks and the last 3 plus one additional push during each rack.

What's your bet and your speed.

Just asking :wink:

I'm a B player! As long as you're a true "5", I like that a lot! And seeing you're talking about an extra push out, you can wholeheartedly have it:) but on one condition,,,, you HAVE to push on your first money ball shot;)

Remember, that's if you're "5"! Not a paper 5 that break and run every couple racks!

And one more thing,,,, something like this should have a decent wager on it! Min bet is 200! Don't go trying to hustle a "6" with this for 20 dollars! It will show how much of a bit you are!

One more thing, I don't bet with nits! I consider them 4th class citizens! They don't deserve to even be within 100yrds of a pool table!

I don't even acknowledge a nits existence;)

mcrisp
11-07-2015, 05:36 AM
I know a SL4 who has a high run in str8 of 109, go figure

justadub
11-07-2015, 06:00 AM
I always laugh at guys like you at Apa who beat me and celebrate like they did something. I beat a 9!! Mean while I still made 30 more balls them them. Lol I have fun at Apa leagues but beating someone with a spot never felt like a win to me. Probably why as a player coming I never asked for one while gambling.

To answer your question who knows. Ive heard that at nationals you'll play 5s and 6s who will string racks on you. I would never give a spot based on someone's Apa or tap handy cap

As a mediocre, non-manipulated SL5 myself, the only time I ever mention (to friends, not crowing to anyone who can hear me) that I "crushed" a better player is if I did so without the handicap spot.

For instance a beat a good friend of mine, a SL6, 4-0 in 8-ball last session. I did kinda crush him, he didn't win a game. Most times, he would beat me handily.

Another time I beat a SL7 in 9-ball, I was out (got my38 for those unfamiliar) before he got to 23. Could he have come back and beaten me if we both had to go to 55, maybe, but I still consider that beating him pretty handily.

Beyond those scenarios tho, you're right. I may say that I won a particular match, but not crow about crushing someone because of a spot.

RichSchultz
11-07-2015, 06:03 AM
As a mediocre, non-manipulated SL5 myself, the only time I ever mention (to friends, not crowing to anyone who can hear me) that I "crushed" a better player is if I did so without the handicap spot.

For instance a beat a good friend of mine, a SL6, 4-0 in 8-ball last session. I did kinda crush him, he didn't win a game. Most times, he would beat me handily.

Another time I beat a SL7 in 9-ball, I was out (got my38 for those unfamiliar) before he got to 23. Could he have come back and beaten me if we both had to go to 55, maybe, but I still consider that beating him pretty handily.

Beyond those scenarios tho, you're right. I may say that I won a particular match, but not crow about crushing someone because of a spot.
1) i wasn't crowing...if I was, would I finish the sentence saying I've been beaten by a 1? My point was, 5s are tough to gauge. I don't "crow." 2) as stated, the wins did exclude the handicap.

Sheesh. This forum really is starting to suck.

ChicagoRJ
11-07-2015, 06:11 AM
1) i wasn't crowing...if I was, would I finish the sentence saying I've been beaten by a 1? My point was, 5s are tough to gauge. I don't "crow." 2) as stated, the wins did exclude the handicap.

Sheesh. This forum really is starting to suck.

You're right Rich, when you mentioned you got beaten by 1's, it was obvious to me at least, you were only saying you can beat higher levels and as well as lose to the lowest levels, and this is probably true for just about anyone that's played apa.

trob
11-07-2015, 07:18 AM
No need to be jerky. "You laugh at guys like me?" Come on, man. Besides, when i say I crushed a 7 or 8, I mean making more balls than them...not talking about the weight. You're one of those sanctimonious people who make it less fun.

If you beat them to your spot then that's a legitimate win and I don't laugh out loud and point at them lol I should have said I find it funny.

lorider
11-07-2015, 08:06 AM
i am one of those 5's that you never can judge from one week to the next.

a few weeks ago i beat a 9 by 38-32.....lost to a 3 by 25-19 last night.

i beat another 5 by 38 -4 at my one and only trip to nationals ....recording my 1st ever skunk in apa....have gotten 2 more since.

2nd match i won vs another 5 by 38-10

3rd match i lost to a 7 by 1 point after being down 18-0 before i ever got to the table.

last match i lost to a 3 by 25-22 .

2 weeks ago i lost to a 5 by 38-20 and beat a 6 last wed night by 38-16.

as you can see ...my game is all over the scale.

my break is the biggest factor in whether i win or lose. sometimes i make 1 or 2 on the break and have a good shot at the next ball and sometimes i break dry with a good layout for my opponent.

another facyor is whether my head is in the game or not. sadly ....some nights it just dont matter if i win or lose. been having too much drama in my life lately that affects my game when i go to league. take last night for example....come home from work to find one of my cues snapped in half....of course none of my g/f's kids admitted to doing it.. i aint talking about little kids....they are 18 and 20. . i took steps to ensure it does not happen again time for me to be single again.

seven_7days
11-07-2015, 08:16 AM
What does an apa5 or 6 look like playing 9 ball anyway?
Anyone have a video link? Sorry, I've never played leage before.

Shawn Armstrong
11-07-2015, 08:33 AM
Hypothetical.

Race to 7. 9 ball. You set the stakes.

I'm asking for one on the wire, all the breaks and the last 3 plus one additional push during each rack.

What's your bet and your speed.

Just asking :wink:
If that's the spot you're asking for, you aren't betting on your game. You're just trying to rob a guy. Last 3, plus the breaks, an extra push shot, and a game on the wire? Get real. Ask for games. Or ask for balls. Not both.

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

justadub
11-07-2015, 11:49 AM
1) i wasn't crowing...if I was, would I finish the sentence saying I've been beaten by a 1? My point was, 5s are tough to gauge. I don't "crow." 2) as stated, the wins did exclude the handicap.

Sheesh. This forum really is starting to suck.

I wasn't suggesting that you were crowing, I was replying to Trobs post.

sixpack
11-07-2015, 11:54 AM
Hypothetical.

Race to 7. 9 ball. You set the stakes.

I'm asking for one on the wire, all the breaks and the last 3 plus one additional push during each rack.

What's your bet and your speed.

Just asking :wink:

Okay. I know I was goofing earlier but now I've had time to think about it. Someone who is really a 5 I might be able to win at that spot. I'm not in APA anymore so I don't know how to tell you my speed on a barbox. Pretty good though.

I probably wouldn't play someone giving up that spot other than just to try it. Not for a lot of money though because 1) There is a large VARIANCE in the pool of APA 5s. 2) It wouldn't take much knowledge to be able to win with this spot against me.

I don't think most 5s would shoot good enough to get there with this spot against a much better player. I know a bunch of high end shortstops that would routinely bust APA 5s and even 6s with spots like this - without the push.

Add the push in and a lower level good player like me - well - if you were a little smarter than the average bear you could make this painful for me. The fact that you would want this spot is a tell that you probably are smarter than the average bear so in the real world I would stay away. I'd be pretty likely to give up the orange crush or the last 3 + the breaks.

Last three + the breaks = Stooge Crush.

Banks
11-07-2015, 12:46 PM
I'd try it against a true 5. Sounds like a pretty fair spot against a 9. If they're nits for asking, then you're just looking to steal. No need to be a jerk over those lower players being excited they won either.

trob
11-07-2015, 02:07 PM
Good lord lol I guess no one read my 2nd post. I'm not a jerk to them at all. I shake there hand and tell them how good they played. It's more laughing on the inside at the ones who then walk around the bar bragging they beat me when I still made 30 more balls then they did. I would never laugh or make fun of how someone plays.

SilverCue
11-07-2015, 03:08 PM
Hypothetical.

Race to 7. 9 ball. You set the stakes.

I'm asking for one on the wire, all the breaks and the last 3 plus one additional push during each rack.

What's your bet and your speed.

Just asking :wink:

I'm not now or ever have been an APA player.

I quit playing in 1997.
I retired in 2011, fought cancer in 2012 - 2013.
Just started back in late 2013.

Here's my Hypothetical counter proposal.

I'll spot you the 1 and out.
So you win any game that you legally pocket a ball by contacting the lowest ball 1st.

No jump cues.
3 fouls in a row by same player is loss of game.
CB fouls = BIH.
I get all the breaks and ball in hand after the break weather I pocket a ball or not.
I get to rack.

I don't have to travel more than 1 hour each way.
We limit sessions to 3 -4 hrs each day. (I'm old)
It's over when the loosing player quits or an agreed number of sessions which ever comes 1st.

P.S.

I read some of your posts and it sounds like you are a strong 5 :)

Shawn Armstrong
11-07-2015, 03:19 PM
I'm not now or ever have been an APA player.

I quit playing in 1997.
I retired in 2011, fought cancer in 2012 - 2013.
Just started back in late 2013.

Here's my Hypothetical counter proposal.

I'll spot you the 1 and out.
So you win any game that you legally pocket a ball by contacting the lowest ball 1st.

No jump cues.
3 fouls in a row by same player is loss of game.
CB fouls = BIH.
I get all the breaks and ball in hand after the break weather I pocket a ball or not.
I get to rack.

I don't have to travel more than 1 hour each way.
We limit sessions to 3 -4 hrs each day. (I'm old)
It's over when the loosing player quits or an agreed number of sessions which ever comes 1st.

P.S.

I read some of your posts and it sounds like you are a strong 5 :)
So, basically...you want to play the ghost. Except, you get to play safe.

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

Zphix
11-07-2015, 04:51 PM
Depends, do the last 3 count on the break and do I get to rack for you? If they don't count on the break, and I get to rack then I'll take that bet.

When I quit the APA a few months ago I was a 7 in 9-ball and I've made significant improvements since then. I find it hard to compete under league pressure because I feel like eyes are on me, but under gambling pressure I thrive and play my best and I think the way a player should.

So, if my two point of clarification above are met then I'd take that bet. Also, as others say you must be a legitimate 5 in skill-level and not on paper.

Shawn Armstrong
11-07-2015, 04:55 PM
Depends, do the last 3 count on the break and do I get to rack for you? If they don't count on the break, and I get to rack then I'll take that bet.

When I quit the APA a few months ago I was a 7 in 9-ball and I've made significant improvements since then. I find it hard to compete under league pressure because I feel like eyes are on me, but under gambling pressure I thrive and play my best and I think the way a player should.

So, if my two point of clarification above are met then I'd take that bet. Also, as others say you must be a legitimate 5 in skill-level and not on paper.
Last three means the last three balls on the table. It's not a particular ball. If you potted the 7 and 8 on the break, and combo'd the 6 in, you don't win. You have to run to the last three balls on the table. So, if you had the 5,6 and 9 left after pocketing the 4, you win the game.

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

KMRUNOUT
11-07-2015, 05:29 PM
What does an apa5 or 6 look like playing 9 ball anyway?
Anyone have a video link? Sorry, I've never played leage before.

I think a legit APA 5, who has been a 5 for a while, who shoots every ball with their full effort and is not trying to manipulate the system, looks like what we would call in the northeast a C- player. They will typically run 4 or 5 balls, usually end their turn on a miss or botched safe, might break and run a rack once per session in league.

As such, I want to try this spot for fun. I guess I'm rated an A player in my area. When I think of the typical APA 5, I could certainly give them the breaks and the last 3 on a big table, probably on a bar table too. I don't know what the extra push out per rack would get them. Whatever they push to, I have the advantage. How great this or that 5 plays is really irrelevant. I'm talking about correctly handicapped 5's. I will find someone who I think is correctly handicapped and try a cheap set with this spot. I'll report my results.

KMRUNOUT

KMRUNOUT
11-07-2015, 05:34 PM
I'm not now or ever have been an APA player.

I quit playing in 1997.
I retired in 2011, fought cancer in 2012 - 2013.
Just started back in late 2013.

Here's my Hypothetical counter proposal.

I'll spot you the 1 and out.
So you win any game that you legally pocket a ball by contacting the lowest ball 1st.

No jump cues.
3 fouls in a row by same player is loss of game.
CB fouls = BIH.
I get all the breaks and ball in hand after the break weather I pocket a ball or not.
I get to rack.

I don't have to travel more than 1 hour each way.
We limit sessions to 3 -4 hrs each day. (I'm old)
It's over when the loosing player quits or an agreed number of sessions which ever comes 1st.

P.S.

I read some of your posts and it sounds like you are a strong 5 :)

This is a gaff game. Doesn't everyone know this one by now? This is like playing the ghost, except much much easier. Any A player should routinely beat the ghost. Any A player should rob *anyone* giving up this spot.

KMRUNOUT

SilverCue
11-07-2015, 07:08 PM
This is a gaff game. Doesn't everyone know this one by now? This is like playing the ghost, except much much easier. Any A player should routinely beat the ghost. Any A player should rob *anyone* giving up this spot.

KMRUNOUT

I'm no longer an A player. When I quit in 1997, I was probably a strong A :)
But I can play B level for short duration matches and I know the in's and out's of this gaff :)

u12armresl
11-07-2015, 08:09 PM
Sounds like:

1) You're not a gambler
2) You should find a game that doesn't require 100 different conditions for an opponent to play you
3) APA players, especially 5's don't bet, so you are either higher, hiding your speed, or on a fishing expedition.


Hypothetical.

Race to 7. 9 ball. You set the stakes.

I'm asking for one on the wire, all the breaks and the last 3 plus one additional push during each rack.

What's your bet and your speed.

Just asking :wink:

iusedtoberich
11-07-2015, 08:41 PM
http://www.ustream.tv/insidepoolmag

APA players playing right now! Check it out :grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:

actionplayer
11-07-2015, 10:33 PM
Hypothetical.

Race to 7. 9 ball. You set the stakes.

I'm asking for one on the wire, all the breaks and the last 3 plus one additional push during each rack.

What's your bet and your speed.

Just asking :wink:

if you were a regular 5 who had over a 100 games in as a 5 id give you what you asked for

play 100-500 a set

against an A + player or my defintion of A+ you should never win that game