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9Ballr
11-07-2015, 03:24 PM
Is it in anyway negative for a cue to have recut points?

I'm being offered a cue and the owner is telling me it has
recut points.
Just wanted to ask the experts if this is in any way a downside as
opposed to making the points right away.

Thanks

cueman
11-07-2015, 03:47 PM
Is it in anyway negative for a cue to have recut points?

I'm being offered a cue and the owner is telling me it has
recut points.
Just wanted to ask the experts if this is in any way a downside as
opposed to making the points right away.

Thanks
I can see no downside to recut points as long as they are done well, other than you are a little more limited with colors than you are with veneers. Recut points take a good repeatable machinery set up and a good skill set to do them. You see much less recuts than you do points with veneers because in many ways they are harder to do. Either way with veneers or recuts the points are only going to be as good as the cuemaker is at doing them.

BarenbruggeCues
11-07-2015, 03:52 PM
Is it in anyway negative for a cue to have recut points?

I'm being offered a cue and the owner is telling me it has
recut points.
Just wanted to ask the experts if this is in any way a downside as
opposed to making the points right away.

Thanks

Let me start by saying...IMO.
The short answer to your question is no. The fact that it has recut points compared to say stacked veneers or veneers that have been mitered should in no way effect the cue construction. The construction technique used to install the points or the glue used may be a factor tho.
I'm not sure what you may consider or are being told what the right way is but ask 10 cuemakers what the right way is and you'll probably get 8 and a half different ways that they all swear are the right way.
I know how I do them and I certainly consider it the right way.

iusedtoberich
11-07-2015, 03:56 PM
I'm not a cue maker.... I had one cue with recut points. It was made by Skip Weston. It was the best looking pointed cue I have ever personally owned. (IMO) :)

I really like the look of recuts much more than veneers. No seam at all, and to me, the wood even looks better.

Again, IMO:)

Wedge
11-07-2015, 04:00 PM
Very difficult to make correctly and keep all the points sharp and even. Here is a link to my Barnhart Recut.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=237114&highlight=Barnhart

Wedge

cueman
11-07-2015, 04:08 PM
Let me start by saying...IMO.
The short answer to your question is no. The fact that it has recut points compared to say stacked veneers or veneers that have been mitered should in no way effect the cue construction. The construction technique used to install the points or the glue used may be a factor tho.
I'm not sure what you may consider or are being told what the right way is but ask 10 cuemakers what the right way is and you'll probably get 8 and a half different ways that they all swear are the right way.
I know how I do them and I certainly consider it the right way.

I at first thought he was meaning another way was the right way. But after rereading it I realized he said "right away." In other words all glued up and installed right away instead of coming back and re-cutting them.

BarenbruggeCues
11-07-2015, 05:22 PM
I at first thought he was meaning another way was the right way. But after rereading it I realized he said "right away." In other words all glued up and installed right away instead of coming back and re-cutting them.

Good catch....I missed that with my lackadaisical reading comprehension.

Away...Way...two different meanings! :nono:

skins
11-08-2015, 02:15 AM
Is it in anyway negative for a cue to have recut points?

I'm being offered a cue and the owner is telling me it has
recut points.
Just wanted to ask the experts if this is in any way a downside as
opposed to making the points right away.

Thanks

I personally like any cue with a veneered look to be done the old way either mitered or stacked. That said those who have made that look their signature way of doing it like Skip or Dennis (Dennis's aren't recuts though) I really like as well... So for me in some cases it is a negative but only aesthetically. If you like the cue and the price is right BUY IT! :wink:

classiccues
11-08-2015, 04:16 AM
Neither are Skips. Dennis dyes his own, and Skip leaves them as nature intended and his color palate is limited to the actual wood colors. The lone exception being the ones he sent out for teal dying to make a "titlist" tribute.

JV

I personally like any cue with a veneered look to be done the old way either mitered or stacked. That said those who have made that look their signature way of doing it like Skip or Dennis (Dennis's aren't recuts though) I really like as well... So for me in some cases it is a negative but only aesthetically. If you like the cue and the price is right BUY IT! :wink:

skins
11-08-2015, 04:24 AM
Neither are Skips. Dennis dyes his own, and Skip leaves them as nature intended and his color palate is limited to the actual wood colors. The lone exception being the ones he sent out for teal dying to make a "titlist" tribute.

JV

Yeah I knew that, as per our conversation before, but I didn't think Dennis and Skips methods are the same... Correct me if I'm wrong..

RBC
11-08-2015, 05:49 AM
Classiccues and Skins,

I'm curious as to why you guys wouldn't consider either Dennis' or Skips' method to be recuts?

There is a distinct difference the traditional veneered points and recut points.

Some make the recut point before it goes into the cue, and some cut them individually in the cue, but both are recuts.


Royce

classiccues
11-08-2015, 07:32 AM
Yeah I knew that, as per our conversation before, but I didn't think Dennis and Skips methods are the same... Correct me if I'm wrong..

I will assume for the sake of semantics that the two probably have different techniques to achieve the same look. But I know I would not consider Skips recuts, and when you signaled out Dennis in your parenthesis it looks like you were saying his was.

Joe

classiccues
11-08-2015, 07:36 AM
Royce,
The term recut has always implied to make your initial pocket, glue in the first wedge, then "recut", hence the name for the second color / material. Skip and I believe Dennis does not do that. I know Skip does no "recutting" at all, not on the initial forearm or in the prong assembly. I have always used the term seamless veneer when discussing Skips prongs.

JV

Classiccues and Skins,

I'm curious as to why you guys wouldn't consider either Dennis' or Skips' method to be recuts?

There is a distinct difference the traditional veneered points and recut points.

Some make the recut point before it goes into the cue, and some cut them individually in the cue, but both are recuts.


Royce

Patrick Johnson
11-08-2015, 07:41 AM
Royce,
The term recut has always implied to make your initial pocket, glue in the first wedge, then "recut", hence the name for the second color / material.
So "recut" means you inlay a single-piece point and then inlay a smaller single-piece point into that point, and then another into that, etc.?

pj
chgo

63Kcode
11-08-2015, 07:49 AM
So "recut" means you inlay a single-piece point and then inlay a smaller single-piece point into that point, and then another into that, etc.?

pj
chgo

Yep.

Larry

classiccues
11-08-2015, 07:50 AM
Pretty much. You're cutting the old point out after you glue it and usually do a turn on the lathe. That is what always made them cost a little more, they are more labor intensive than a stacked veneer prong.

JV

So "recut" means you inlay a single-piece point and then inlay a smaller single-piece point into that point, and then another into that, etc.?

pj
chgo

iusedtoberich
11-08-2015, 07:50 AM
What!?! Skip Weston does not do recuts? That's his claim to fame as far as I know.

I'm with Royce on this one. Whether you cut the points one at a time into the forearm of the cue, or you make a completed subassembly of points and then glue that subassembly into the forearm, they are both recuts.

classiccues
11-08-2015, 07:54 AM
This shows why you "used to be rich".... :)

Seriously, he has never done a recut. He has never, ever said or agreed with that terminology. Back in the very early 90's when he came out with these, same time frame as Mottey and his fancy recuts, I think it was easier for people to describe them as such, since they always appeared the same from an aesthetics point of view.

JV

What!?! Skip Weston does not do recuts? That's his claim to fame as far as I know.

I'm with Royce on this one. Whether you cut the points one at a time into the forearm of the cue, or you make a completed subassembly of points and then glue that subassembly into the forearm, they are both recuts.

iusedtoberich
11-08-2015, 08:20 AM
:):)

Ok. Let's disregard "how" it's put together.

Is the end result that each individual border wood in a point are shaped in a "V" and of one solid piece of wood?

Patrick Johnson
11-08-2015, 08:37 AM
So "recut" means you inlay a single-piece point and then inlay a smaller single-piece point into that point, and then another into that, etc.?

pj
chgo

Yep.

Larry

Pretty much. You're cutting the old point out after you glue it and usually do a turn on the lathe. That is what always made them cost a little more, they are more labor intensive than a stacked veneer prong.

JV
Cool. Thanks, guys.

pj
chgo

RBC
11-08-2015, 12:00 PM
Royce,
The term recut has always implied to make your initial pocket, glue in the first wedge, then "recut", hence the name for the second color / material. Skip and I believe Dennis does not do that. I know Skip does no "recutting" at all, not on the initial forearm or in the prong assembly. I have always used the term seamless veneer when discussing Skips prongs.

JV


JV

I guess the funny thing is that we tend to name something based on how it's done. But, as time goes on the methods change. When they do, the name now doesn't necessarily fit, but usually stays with the result rather than the method.

Recuts were most likely made that way. However, there are other ways of doing it these days and they all result in the same end result.

I've seen cues made by both Skip and Dennis. I've talked with Dennis many times, but I haven't talked with Skip. Either way, I would call the cues made by both to have recut points.

I mean no disrespect! To me, recuts are clearly more difficult.


Royce

SpiderWeb
11-08-2015, 12:29 PM
Some use one piece veneers and I dont call those recuts.

classiccues
11-08-2015, 01:18 PM
Royce,
I understand, but I can tell you with 100% certainty Skip does no "recutting" at any time. In fact the only similarity is in the final appearance.

Joe

JV

I guess the funny thing is that we tend to name something based on how it's done. But, as time goes on the methods change. When they do, the name now doesn't necessarily fit, but usually stays with the result rather than the method.

Recuts were most likely made that way. However, there are other ways of doing it these days and they all result in the same end result.

I've seen cues made by both Skip and Dennis. I've talked with Dennis many times, but I haven't talked with Skip. Either way, I would call the cues made by both to have recut points.

I mean no disrespect! To me, recuts are clearly more difficult.


Royce

iusedtoberich
11-09-2015, 09:35 AM
Royce,

I understand, but I can tell you with 100% certainty Skip does no "recutting" at any time. In fact the only similarity is in the final appearance.



Joe


Ok. But please clarify if we are all debating semantics or the actual finished product?

Are Skip Weston's border woods on his points made of one solid piece of wood (not 2 pieces glued together), and in a V shape?

EtDM
11-20-2015, 07:47 AM
Ok. But please clarify if we are all debating semantics or the actual finished product?

Are Skip Weston's border woods on his points made of one solid piece of wood (not 2 pieces glued together), and in a V shape?

This is correct, they are a single piece with no glue line/seam at the tip of the point.

iusedtoberich
11-20-2015, 07:53 AM
This is correct, they are a single piece with no glue line/seam at the tip of the point.

Well if that is true, it would seem we are simply debating semantics in this thread.

For example, using the word "pin" instead of "screw" for the joint "pin" is something I don't agree with at all. However, it has become the standard way of describing what we all call a pin, so its no big deal.

I think much the same for the word "recut". Everyone knows what it means, so why say cue maker xyz does not do recuts, if the end result is the same, and it was just assembled in a different order/manner?

duker
11-20-2015, 08:12 AM
I have a " Blackpearl Cue " made by al Bautista. The cue is made from Narra Wood, 36 points, with no wrap and it's one of the nicest cues I have ever seen. I must say the cue plays well also. I also had Al make me a 20 inch extension to attach onto the butt.. Check with Blackpearl Cues, and you will be amazed with his work and his prices..

Michael Webb
11-20-2015, 08:14 AM
Well if that is true, it would seem we are simply debating semantics in this thread.

For example, using the word "pin" instead of "screw" for the joint "pin" is something I don't agree with at all. However, it has become the standard way of describing what we all call a pin, so its no big deal.

I think much the same for the word "recut". Everyone knows what it means, so why say cue maker xyz does not do recuts, if the end result is the same, and it was just assembled in a different order/manner?

I beg to differ. Everyone does not know what it means. The methods used to achieve simular results are not even close to being the same. That puts each method under it's own discipline of machining. Imaginations are stretched trying to understand them and without step by step pictures, some will never grasp it.

iusedtoberich
11-20-2015, 08:31 AM
I beg to differ. Everyone does not know what it means. The methods used to achieve simular results are not even close to being the same. That puts each method under it's own discipline of machining. Imaginations are stretched trying to understand them and without step by step pictures, some will never grasp it.

If you were to take a cross section of a finished cue through the points of a cue maker who says he does "recuts", and a cue maker who says he does not do "recuts" (Skip Weston according to the info in this thread), would the sections look the same? I know the dimensions would be different of course, based on the cue makers preferences, but would the section in principle look the same?

Thanks.

Michael Webb
11-20-2015, 08:49 AM
If you were to take a cross section of a finished cue through the points of a cue maker who says he does "recuts", and a cue maker who says he does not do "recuts" (Skip Weston according to the info in this thread), would the sections look the same? I know the dimensions would be different of course, based on the cue makers preferences, but would the section in principle look the same?

Thanks.

Yes Sir they would. But respect has to be given to both methods and they shouldn't be compared to the same. Ever.

iusedtoberich
11-20-2015, 09:34 AM
Yes Sir they would. But respect has to be given to both methods and they shouldn't be compared to the same. Ever.

Fair enough:) Thanks for answering.

dnixon
11-20-2015, 09:45 PM
I would love to see some pictures of some cues before and after recuts