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View Full Version : Shape Route Nonmenclature Proposal

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 06:51 AM
[Edit: Sorry about the unintended irony in the misspelling of nomenclature in the title.]

Perhaps because I have an interest in multi-rail CB positional games, one of my frustrations, to which my signature of many years will attest, is the lack of efficient terminology available to us in describing positional routes the CB takes.

About the only useful term I've come across is 'doubling' as raised by Fred Cornerman some months ago, whereby the CB bounces off the two rails at 90 degrees adjacent to a corner pocket.

I will introduce my proposal with descriptions over several posts as I have several diagrams to include and want to keep the text near to the diagrams.

Note that I'm not interested in 1 rails positional routes here, they are easily enough explained.

So I'll start with the 2 rail shots, and the terminology for doubles that can be useful. The END DOUBLE comes off the end rail first. The side off the side rail first. The reverse indicates playing a shot with draw.

Note that you don't have to pot to that corner to double, you could come into a double from anywhere on the table, such as side pocket, far corner pockets of even from a bank.

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 07:04 AM
A variation on standard doubling is when the adjacent rail is not hit, but a rail at 90 degrees to the first rail is hit. These I term the Long End Double, when the CB comes off the end rail first and moves to a distant side rail. The second is the Long Side Double, when the CB comes off a side rail first and travels to a distant end rail. The reverse terminology applies when such shots are played using draw. Reversing doesn't change the geometry, but is a useful descriptive tool. The opposite of reverse would be natural, though one needn't prefix the shot description with 'natural'.

Note: I chose the terms 'end' and 'side' over 'short' and 'long' rail as I found it useful to include the term long for the descriptive term above, and some other shots that will arise, where using long could lead to confusion.

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 07:15 AM
The other type of common 2 rail shot is what I have termed 'Crossers', which suggests they travel across the table, hitting parallel rails.

The end crosser travels from one end to the other and the side crosser travels from one side to the other. The long side crosser skips over the side pocket between rails.

Crossers can also be 3 or 4 or 5 rails if enough speed is generated and the rails are elastic. If a crosser eventually goes to a perpendicular rail, it becomes an 'escalator' shot, which I introduce later on. This term was borrowed in part from the elevator shot used in 3 cushion, but the term escalator seems more visually comparable imho and the 3 cushion shot has a different purpose and description.

Note: There cannot be a Long End Crosser as there's no side pocket to skip to make it a LONG version of the shot. However, the Long Side Crosser is a very common shot and needs its own descriptive term I believe.

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 07:37 AM
The Escalator shot extend to 3 and more rails. There are two types, the UP and Down. In the UP Escalator shot, the CB comes off the perpendicular rail first, such as END rail, then SIDE then SIDE. It can also be a Side rail, then end and end. It's difficult to make an UP Escalator Shot hitting more than 3 rails total, especially when played of the side rail first.

The DOWN ESCALATOR shot hits parallel rails first and moves toward a perpendicular rail, so it may travel 3 or 4 rails before contacting the perpendicular angle.

The terminology would be along the lines of 'a 3 rail UP SIDE ESCALATOR' shot, for a CB that comes off the end rail first and then hits 2 side rails. Conversly, if a CB comes off 3 side rails and then hits an end rail, it would be called a '4 rail Down SIDE ESCALATOR' shot.

In the diagram, I've also included The Pope's Hat Shot, or MITRE 3 rail shot, which is the technical name for the Pope's hat. This is no religious reference, just that it resembles the shape, and because it is a quite rare variation of the shot I'll describe next, which is the CROWN 3 rail shot, which is a very common 3 rail pattern which resembles a crown shape.

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 07:51 AM
Here we have a common 3 rail route, which looks like a diamond with a missing corner, or a simplified crown. I termed it the crown shot, perhaps other have given it names. It is a common follow with inside shot to the corner, or a follow or draw shot from the side pocket and sometimes a reverse crown drawing off a long shot to the far corner with outside english.

The long crown is a rarer 3 rail route as it usually takes one near the far end rail and needs to be played with little english when potting to the corner as shown in this diagram. The same pattern is usually used to go 4 rails to play a QUAD, which I will describe next.

The Long Crown, which skips from end to far side rail is a kind of mirror image of the Earl 3 Triple, which skips from the long side to the end rail, but the shots are played very differently, as the Earl Triple usually requires a lot of Inside english to run around the rails.

I named this shot after Earl, because he seems to love using it in warm ups and exhibitions and coaching. It is the low power version of the Earl 5 Rail Penta, one of his famous trick shots.

FWIW: If you do this Earl Triple and catch the 4th rail you could call it an Earl Triple +1 or an Earl Penta -1.

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 08:06 AM
I've defined the END and SIDE QUADS. The Side quad is played off the side rail first and it can't have too much running english or it turns into a crown. It's basically a long crown 3 rail that keeps traveling with running. If it continues to a 5th or 6th rail it would be called a Side Quad +1 or + 2. A twisted version of the SIDE QUAD is possible using check off the second rail but is difficult and rarely played.

The term 'twisted' indicates how a rectangle could be twisted at one end, such that edges cross, rather than stay apart.

On ball two, this 'twisted' descriptive should be more readily apparent. On the thinner CB hit off the 2 ball, the route continues to run, similar to a rectangle pattern. This path can continue to 6 rails often. With the thicker hit, using more outside english and/or draw, the route crosses itself before reaching the far low corner, resulting in a 'twisted quad'. This causes the CB to check / reverse and hence slow down off the last 2 rails. A very useful shot but players need to be very familiar with with path they are selecting because getting it wrong leads to scratching or severe loss of shape.

On fast tables the twisted quad may reach a 5th or even 6th rail, but one risks the CB bouncing around and losing control of it.

SilverCue
11-09-2015, 08:12 AM
Good job!!

billiardthought
11-09-2015, 08:14 AM
I think this is all just a bit too much. I can only see this working in the most formal of teaching situations. Just my opinion.

pt109
11-09-2015, 08:23 AM
One must strive to avoid double crossers.

(((Satori)))
11-09-2015, 08:24 AM
Can I propose one to be named the Satori?

Cut shot in the side... 2 railer with inside english... end rail, same side as pocket rail, back to center table

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 08:28 AM
For 5 rail routes which aren't power CROSSERS or extended QUADS, in which cases I'd refer to them as say the END QUAD +1, another unique path is one I referred to earlier, which I dedicate to Earl Strickland, as the EARL PENTA.

The NATURAL form, which needs no prefix is shown by Cue Ball 'A'. It is a shot he often shows off with and/or uses to get a feel for the grippiness and speed of a table in warm ups. In this version the CB runs (accelerates) off every rail. A variation of this is the Twisted Earl Penta, which checks/ reverses off the last 2 rails as the CB crosses, or twists across the initial path.

Shot 'B' shows the REVERSE TWISTED EARL PENTA, which is played with draw and heavy outside english.

That concludes my basic CB route types. There are a couple of curiosities which I will add later. See if you can come up with a realistic CB route which can't be described by one of these definitions I've offered please?

It would be nice to be able to explain one's route plan in one word rather than try to describe all the rails being hit, or to simply describe it by the number of rails.

Note: For any shots where the CB travels more than 5 rails, I'd describe them as a QUAD + 2 or 3 or 4 or Earl PENTA + 1 or 2 or 3. They will have to start along one of these patterns or be an extreme variation of an Escalator shot. If someone makes such a shot recognized, they may have their name attributed to it someday, like The Earl Penta.

Colin

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 08:32 AM
Can I propose one to be named the Satori?

Cut shot in the side... 2 railer with inside english... end rail, same side as pocket rail, back to center table
You may, but it sounds like an End Double to me, just starting from a different point. Can you draw it?

One triple I haven't drawn yet is 'The Snake' as used in 3C, sometimes called the reverse double, but I'm already using the reverse to indicate coming backward off the tangent line. That's when a CB hits side, end and then the same side again.

Colin

BRussell
11-09-2015, 08:36 AM
I didn't like it at first. Then I started saying them in my head with an Australian accent, and it all came together.

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 08:40 AM
One must strive to avoid double crossers.
Crossers have their time and place. We usually play as few rails as possible, but I play a game with minimum 2 rails for position pretty often, and the 2 rail crosser is like a gift when the angle is friendly to just need center ball or a touch of inside or outside.

Perhaps by 'double crosser' you meant what I'd call a triple crosser. They are pretty dodgy, but can be useful when playing a fine cut into the side and going 3 rails up and down off the end rails.

Colin

(((Satori)))
11-09-2015, 08:44 AM
You may, but it sounds like an End Double to me, just starting from a different point. Can you draw it?

One triple I haven't drawn yet is 'The Snake' as used in 3C, sometimes called the reverse double, but I'm already using the reverse to indicate coming backward off the tangent line. That's when a CB hits side, end and then the same side again.

Colin

Oh yeah, I guess it is the end double.

(((Satori)))
11-09-2015, 08:47 AM
Double post

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 09:01 AM
I didn't like it at first. Then I started saying them in my head with an Australian accent, and it all came together.
Me too, but now I call them out loud before I play shots and it clears my mind :)

Kris_b1104
11-09-2015, 12:49 PM
Wow Sam Lambert is out practicing instead of soaking up all this information. How is he supposed to know what to call his shots now when his friends ask "what was that?!?!?!"

That was a triple Earl crosser quad, with 12.99mm tip and a black ferrule.

Drops mic.

pt109
11-09-2015, 12:54 PM
Double post

What kind of position shot is that?

(((Satori)))
11-09-2015, 01:03 PM
What kind of position shot is that?

Ha ha,

A position where you want to be sure you are going to get paid?

snucar
11-09-2015, 01:04 PM
Wow Sam Lambert is out practicing instead of soaking up all this information. How is he supposed to know what to call his shots now when his friends ask "what was that?!?!?!"

That was a triple Earl crosser quad, with 12.99mm tip and a black ferrule.

Drops mic.

LOL!!!:thumbup:

What kind of position shot is that?
LOL again!!!:thumbup:

Show Satori the money if you want to learn that shot. Knowledge doesn't come for free. For every Satori book or DVD you buy, you get a Satori chalk remover for free and a Satori Premium aiming system installed in your brain.

BRussell
11-09-2015, 01:10 PM
Wow, I stopped installing Shockwave in my browsers in about 1998, and I don't intend on installing it now. I couldn't find another good pool table diagramming tool, so this is the best I could do.

Here's a common one that I couldn't identify exactly in your list. Pocket the 15 in corner pocket A, and then hit the rails at 1, 2, 3, & 4, stopping at the 5-ball.

It's low inside around the corner. Is it a version of the triple crown?

http://www.drawtable.com/4yBsqk9Gg

bdorman
11-09-2015, 01:31 PM
Can I propose one to be named the Satori?

Cut shot in the side... 2 railer with inside english... end rail, same side as pocket rail, CB in side pocket

Perhaps the edited version above could be the Satori?

(((Satori)))
11-09-2015, 01:32 PM
Perhaps the edited version above could be the Satori?

Oh man, nothing pisses me off more than a Satori. Don't you feel the same way?

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 02:02 PM
Wow, I stopped installing Shockwave in my browsers in about 1998, and I don't intend on installing it now. I couldn't find another good pool table diagramming tool, so this is the best I could do.

Here's a common one that I couldn't identify exactly in your list. Pocket the 15 in corner pocket A, and then hit the rails at 1, 2, 3, & 4, stopping at the 5-ball.

It's low inside around the corner. Is it a version of the triple crown?

http://www.drawtable.com/4yBsqk9Gg

I'd call that a Crown Triple plus 1.

hang-the-9
11-09-2015, 06:46 PM
I didn't like it at first. Then I started saying them in my head with an Australian accent, and it all came together.

That's not position... Now THIS is position.

I like the diagrams but the naming of the shots remind me of Pool Killers where he tried to put pool into his own thing and put out a super funny pamphlet filled with a cross between bar rules and someone trying to explain quantum mechanics with 3rd grade level comprehension and vocabulary.

Colin Colenso
11-09-2015, 06:57 PM
That's not position... Now THIS is position.

I like the diagrams but the naming of the shots remind me of Pool Killers where he tried to put pool into his own thing and put out a super funny pamphlet filled with a cross between bar rules and someone trying to explain quantum mechanics with 3rd grade level comprehension and vocabulary.
What's Pool Killers? A movie? - Don't worry, re-read, sounds like a game someone made up.

Colin Colenso
11-10-2015, 05:13 AM
Here are 2 more multi-rail CB positional routes which have been named previously.

The first has been termed the Karate Chop, by Danny Diliberto. It may have other names. Please mention them if you've heard of them. It's the type of shot where spin on the CB makes it collide 2 or more times on the same rail or potentially on 2 adjacent side rails. This has been referred to as the Stay Shot in some UK circles.

Sometimes the effect crosses from side to end rail, as in a famous shot by Efren. In this case, it's technically just an end double, but one could term it the Karate Chop Efren Double.

The shot lower right, I found to have been termed either the Doubling the Rail or the Snake Shot in 3 Cushion/ Carom circles. I chose the Snake Shot terminology as I'm using the term Doubling as the verb of the Double around a corner pocket in a standard fashion.

Please let me know if any of you have heard of other names for positional routes mentioned here, or any other positional routes you can think of.

The only other type of terminology I have come across is 'Round the Angles' and 'Around the Table' which are very vague in describing a route.

One might include a 'Tickie' as a positional route, which requires playing rail to ball to the same rail and then on toward another OB or to a safe zone. It is also a term usually used in 3C.

hang-the-9
11-10-2015, 11:17 AM
What's Pool Killers? A movie? - Don't worry, re-read, sounds like a game someone made up.

Don't know how you missed him/her/them, some of the funniest half-knowledge ever.

http://issuu.com/poolkillers81/docs/a_beginner_s_guide_to_8_ball_pool/1

Colin Colenso
11-10-2015, 11:37 AM
Don't know how you missed him/her/them, some of the funniest half-knowledge ever.

http://issuu.com/poolkillers81/docs/a_beginner_s_guide_to_8_ball_pool/1

Wow, I learned to grab the cue behind the center of mass with my shooting hand. :eek:

No wonder my tip has been hitting me on the nose during feathering for corner hole shots.

Looks like the whole thing got translated into Chinese and back into English, as it seems to override most commonly accepted terminology and replace them with unheard of terms.

Yes, my terminology is a bit weird, but it's an attempt to come up with some names for categories of routes that don't appear to presently have names. A tad obscure, but such terms may be useful in certain descriptive and instructional situations.

I'll have to read more Killer Pool later on. Pool comedy gold!

Colin

bdorman
11-10-2015, 03:16 PM
Oh man, nothing pisses me off more than a Satori. Don't you feel the same way?

I've perfected so many ways to scratch that a team of Colins couldn't name them all. :grin:

My other favorite is to play safe by banking the OB and locking the CB tight up against another ball. The only problem is that I ignored where the OB ball would go...and you guessed it, right into a pocket.

Colin Colenso
11-10-2015, 07:35 PM
I've perfected so many ways to scratch that a team of Colins couldn't name them all. :grin:

My other favorite is to play safe by banking the OB and locking the CB tight up against another ball. The only problem is that I ignored where the OB ball would go...and you guessed it, right into a pocket.
I'm constantly astounded at how hard it is to bank an OB 3 or 4 rails, but try running the CB around the table and it's like the last pocket is the width of a rail.

And banks to safety have a peculiar knack of finding a pocket. :o

Bob Jewett
11-10-2015, 09:29 PM
I think many of the shots above already have fine, descriptive names. Are you funning us, Colin?

Colin Colenso
11-11-2015, 12:20 AM
I think many of the shots above already have fine, descriptive names. Are you funning us, Colin?
Not at all, I've been trying to find any extant descriptive terms.

Can you mention a few?

Cheers,
Colin

Colin Colenso
11-11-2015, 11:12 AM
I think many of the shots above already have fine, descriptive names. Are you funning us, Colin?
Have been thinking about this Bob, and considering not one single reader has proffered an optional shot name for any shot presented, other than those I've already included, then it seems there is no abundance of well known descriptive terms for these shots, other than side rail to end rail to x to y and so on, which in my mind is poorly insufficient.

I'm not from the US and not part of 3C circles, so I expected to get some education here, but thus far, nothing but air. Anyone out there with any substance?

Colin

DaveK
11-11-2015, 12:54 PM
It seems silly to give these shots arbitrary names. If I were to name these shots they would be based on a rail numbering system so that any shot can be described and deciphered based on a system rather than having to memorize names like "karate chop Efren double" (or is that a "judo toss Earl twice please" ?). A "2-3-4" for example would be a three rail shape shot that hits three adjacent rails. A "2-5" would be a two rail shot that crosses the table horizontally and vertiacally. I suspect that many now understand this system-based nomenclature and could describe paths based on this two examples. Colin, I have always admired your posts, ideas, and enthusiasm but this idea is going nowhere IMO.

Dave

Apocalypse2017
11-11-2015, 01:40 PM
Ima bang this in with some juice and come out two rails for posishhh

Colin Colenso
11-11-2015, 08:03 PM
It seems silly to give these shots arbitrary names. If I were to name these shots they would be based on a rail numbering system so that any shot can be described and deciphered based on a system rather than having to memorize names like "karate chop Efren double" (or is that a "judo toss Earl twice please" ?). A "2-3-4" for example would be a three rail shape shot that hits three adjacent rails. A "2-5" would be a two rail shot that crosses the table horizontally and vertiacally. I suspect that many now understand this system-based nomenclature and could describe paths based on this two examples. Colin, I have always admired your posts, ideas, and enthusiasm but this idea is going nowhere IMO.

Dave

That's pretty much how they do it in diving, but in gymnastics, various moves are named, often after a person than was well known for executing a particular move.

The problem I see with using a 2-5 type system is that it's essentially the same as 5-2, 3-6 and a 6-3, which I'd call a long crosser.

Such terms are not likely to be used much in standard games because players rarely play multi-rail positional shots. But I enjoy playing games where a minimum 2 rails must be hit each shot, and hence it becomes necessary to develop a familiarity with the various categories of multi-rail routes to position.

Cheers,
Colin

pt109
11-11-2015, 08:18 PM
but in gymnastics, various moves are named, often after a person than was well known for executing a particular move.

Cheers,
Colin

This made me realize that I do have names for certain shots....in memory of the person
that I associate it with.
14.1....my three main break shots are Mosconi, Greenleaf, and Diliberto.
I even have bridges that I learned from players when I was a kid.

Colin Colenso
11-11-2015, 08:36 PM
This made me realize that I do have names for certain shots....in memory of the person
that I associate it with.
14.1....my three main break shots are Mosconi, Greenleaf, and Diliberto.
I even have bridges that I learned from players when I was a kid.
Efren's Z shot escape is a good example.

In our local league, a final was decided on a bank from end rail to side pocket. Whenever the same shot is made, usually a fluke, the shot is named after him, somewhat mockingly, as no one believes his claim that he actually played for it.

krupa
11-12-2015, 08:22 AM
Personally, I thought this was a joke at first, then I saw how many diagrams you came up with. So I thought it was a joke that went too far. Apparently you are serious.

This appears to me to be an over-engineered solution looking for a problem.

Colin Colenso
11-12-2015, 09:16 AM
Personally, I thought this was a joke at first, then I saw how many diagrams you came up with. So I thought it was a joke that went too far. Apparently you are serious.

This appears to me to be an over-engineered solution looking for a problem.
Well, I could have just asked if the members had any suggestions for positional routes. Instead, I searched terminology lists and presented options for names, hoping to stimulate discussion.

But, no one seems to know anything, nor care, that the best way to describe shots is in very vague terms like smash it and run around.

I suspect the main reason is that most of the readers here shit their pants when they happen across a shot that needs the CB to do much more than dribble into position.

Colin

krupa
11-12-2015, 10:09 AM
Well, I could have just asked if the members had any suggestions for positional routes. Instead, I searched terminology lists and presented options for names, hoping to stimulate discussion.

But, no one seems to know anything, nor care, that the best way to describe shots is in very vague terms like smash it and run around.

I suspect the main reason is that most of the readers here shit their pants when they happen across a shot that needs the CB to do much more than dribble into position.

Colin

I don't share your low opinion of the others on this forum. I suspect the real reason we don't already have fancy terms for routes is because no one has needed them before. Players who benefit from route discussions know enough that saying "high-inside to come back out to the center" is enough.

Colin Colenso
11-12-2015, 10:42 AM
I don't share your low opinion of the others on this forum. I suspect the real reason we don't already have fancy terms for routes is because no one has needed them before. Players who benefit from route discussions know enough that saying "high-inside to come back out to the center" is enough.
High inside is enough of a descriptor for those who haven't learned the many routes and their variables.

Colin

krupa
11-12-2015, 10:53 AM
High inside is enough of a descriptor for those who haven't learned the many routes and their variables.

Colin

If you say so, charlie.

DaveK
11-12-2015, 11:57 AM
High inside is enough of a descriptor for those who haven't learned the many routes and their variables.

Colin

I have spent much time on shape routes, their variances and limits, mostly using Hennings Pro Book as a guide. I have never thought to give word names to these routes, and to the best of my recollection he does not name them either. Having a common (one that the majority of people know and use) would be handy in communicating between players, but it is entirely possible to be very familiar with shape routes and have no common name for them. In other words those who have "learned the many routes and their variables" don't need the wordy names either.

Dave

hang-the-9
11-12-2015, 06:35 PM
High inside is enough of a descriptor for those who haven't learned the many routes and their variables.

Colin

By the time a player is good enough to learn how to shoot the shots, he knows what they are.

Colin Colenso
11-13-2015, 07:44 AM
I have spent much time on shape routes, their variances and limits, mostly using Hennings Pro Book as a guide. I have never thought to give word names to these routes, and to the best of my recollection he does not name them either. Having a common (one that the majority of people know and use) would be handy in communicating between players, but it is entirely possible to be very familiar with shape routes and have no common name for them. In other words those who have "learned the many routes and their variables" don't need the wordy names either.

Dave
How does he refer to routes without some kind of naming system? Surely it would aid in communicating types of routes?

Colin

Colin Colenso
11-13-2015, 07:48 AM
By the time a player is good enough to learn how to shoot the shots, he knows what they are.
So you know what spin and angle of approach and position of rail to hit on a crown 3 railer to avoid scratching into the far corner when going to the 4th rail?

Or, you just guessing and happy with that?

Colin

DaveK
11-13-2015, 07:58 AM
How does he refer to routes without some kind of naming system? Surely it would aid in communicating types of routes?

Colin

They are numbered.

The question I have is about the need to communicate. When I play pool I have no need to communicate my route selection or intent, I simply decide then play the shot. While deciding between multiple choices my thought process does not need names for the routes, it is done in visuals and confidences. The only reason to communicate is when two or more people are discussing routes . Then it seems to me that if everyone knows a simple common convention for describing routes, as I offered with the numbered-rail-hit suggestion, it would be MUCH easier and more effective than using a set of somewhat arbitrary word names that everyone needs to memorize. Frankly I rarely discuss pool shot routes with others, and when I do the description is all about the rails hit, and never includes the name of a pro or any arbitrary word like "crown". The way I see (:grin:) it.

Dave

Colin Colenso
11-13-2015, 08:14 AM
They are numbered.

The question I have is about the need to communicate. When I play pool I have no need to communicate my route selection or intent, I simply decide then play the shot. While deciding between multiple choices my thought process does not need names for the routes, it is done in visuals and confidences. The only reason to communicate is when two or more people are discussing routes . Then it seems to me that if everyone knows a simple common convention for describing routes, as I offered with the numbered-rail-hit suggestion, it would be MUCH easier and more effective than using a set of somewhat arbitrary word names that everyone needs to memorize. Frankly I rarely discuss pool shot routes with others, and when I do the description is all about the rails hit, and never includes the name of a pro or any arbitrary word like "crown". The way I see (:grin:) it.

Dave
Dave,
I'd be happy with a numbered rail-hit type naming system, but there is a hurdle.

Say we number the rails from breaking end head rail as 1, then number the other rails 2-6 clockwise. Essentially, a 1-2 is the same as a 1-6 and the same as a 4-3 and the same as a 4-5.

This is why I proposed an 'end double' to replace all these.

And a 'side double' would replace a 6-1, 2-1, 3-4 and 5-4.

I'm trying to simplify things, not complicate them.

btw: I found one video from Henning's Pro Book. Looks like great material. It was an 'end double' with CB starting Center Table and coming back to Center Table.

[Edit: Simply put, my naming methodology reduces any numerical naming system of rail hit patterns to 1/4 of the original complexity.]

Colin

DaveK
11-13-2015, 12:20 PM
Dave,
I'd be happy with a numbered rail-hit type naming system, but there is a hurdle.

Say we number the rails from breaking end head rail as 1, then number the other rails 2-6 clockwise. Essentially, a 1-2 is the same as a 1-6 and the same as a 4-3 and the same as a 4-5.

Yes, similar shapes that start at the head end will have different rail numbers than those that start at the foot end of the table. In my opinion this is trivial, and certainly not as big an issue as having to memorize arbitrary names. One method is simple and deterministic the other arbitrary and subject to language. Being an engineer that contest is no contest :thumbup: Of course as already stated I do not believe there is a great need for either :shrug:

<edit> A thought occurred to me (hey, it can happen) ... I wonder what our instructors think of naming/numbering shapes. While I do not think it necessary, they might have a different opinion. </edit>

Dave

Colin Colenso
11-14-2015, 10:15 AM
Yes, similar shapes that start at the head end will have different rail numbers than those that start at the foot end of the table. In my opinion this is trivial, and certainly not as big an issue as having to memorize arbitrary names. One method is simple and deterministic the other arbitrary and subject to language. Being an engineer that contest is no contest :thumbup: Of course as already stated I do not believe there is a great need for either :shrug:

<edit> A thought occurred to me (hey, it can happen) ... I wonder what our instructors think of naming/numbering shapes. While I do not think it necessary, they might have a different opinion. </edit>

Dave
Dave,
Most getting instruction are happy to pot a ball and maybe get shape off 1 rail. The doubling around a corner is about as far as most players will ever get to analyzing shape.

Stunning into a side rail with inside for a 3 rail crown is anathema to most. So pursuing the minutia between a natural running 5 rail from a crown 3 rail pattern and twisting it to check off rails 4 & 5 is way beyond most player's or instructor's thoughts.

But, for those who want to become more familiar, learning a half dozen shape names, with a few descriptors could be advantageous to trying to learn 24 versions of rail hit orders which would also require descriptors in terms of how the CB comes to the first rail.

My proposition is for a niche audience looking to gain insight into the more complicated positional routes, aided by an efficiency in terminology.

Colin