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pocket
07-09-2016, 10:49 AM
Posted this is ask the mechanic, best suggestion was to remove cloth- any ideas on how to fix the issue without pulling the cloth?:


Wax weeping at seams- Bump issue - Yesterday, 12:36 PM
I have a table in my garage that I use for practice and play.

When it was installed the installer used a bluish wax to finish the joints on the slate.

Last summer a bump appeared at the joints, the mechanic came out, and found that the wax had seeped (if you will) up when it got hot and had created a ridge under the cloth.

He removed the cloth and scrapped the excess wax. The table has been fine since, until a few weeks ago. We had a string of fairly warm days and low and behold, the ridge (much less prominent this time) has re appeared.

Question: when I do a re cloth, I (the service I use) will definitely use some combination of super glue and rock hard or bondo, that said, how do I remove the wax that is there when it comes time to do it? I assume the wax will interfere with the bonding of the other products?

Second Quesiton: In the mean time, what do I do about the 'ridges' that are there from the wax? I've thought of ironing them, but I'm afraid of melting the wax and having it wick into the cloth creating an even worse problem. Flat piece of iron bar or something and tap it down?

I'd very much appreciate any suggestions.

thank you in advance

ceebee
07-09-2016, 11:26 AM
When my Table Mechanic recovered my Table... he also used a very thin, clear piece of shipping tape, across the seam.

You might try ironing the whole surface slowly. I wouldn't think the iron would hurt the cloth, irons are used on a myriad of fine cloths.

Be careful & good luck...

pocket
07-09-2016, 11:46 AM
When my Table Mechanic recovered my Table... he also used a very thin, clear piece of shipping tape, across the seam.

You might try ironing the whole surface slowly. I wouldn't think the iron would hurt the cloth, irons are used on a myriad of fine cloths.

Be careful & good luck...

Thanks cee, I'm worried that the iron will melt the wax and it will wick into the cloth. So annoying.

ceebee
07-09-2016, 12:22 PM
Ask the mechanics what they might suggest. Call Butch Jette 501-428-1500, he said he'd be glad to help.

He did say this, "if the room temperature is going to be the problem, you'll have to use another medium".

marc,oelslager
07-09-2016, 01:21 PM
If u want a quick fix just tap the wax back down or flat. Best fix is to take cloth off, scrap wax with razor blade until clean. In a garage, damp basement or by the lake we always use bondo on the seams. Hope that helps, the tapping with hammer will work until recovery time.

Marc

pdcue
07-09-2016, 01:40 PM
Posted this is ask the mechanic, best suggestion was to remove cloth- any ideas on how to fix the issue without pulling the cloth?:


Wax weeping at seams- Bump issue - Yesterday, 12:36 PM
I have a table in my garage that I use for practice and play.

When it was installed the installer used a bluish wax to finish the joints on the slate.

Last summer a bump appeared at the joints, the mechanic came out, and found that the wax had seeped (if you will) up when it got hot and had created a ridge under the cloth.

He removed the cloth and scrapped the excess wax. The table has been fine since, until a few weeks ago. We had a string of fairly warm days and low and behold, the ridge (much less prominent this time) has re appeared.

Question: when I do a re cloth, I (the service I use) will definitely use some combination of super glue and rock hard or bondo, that said, how do I remove the wax that is there when it comes time to do it? I assume the wax will interfere with the bonding of the other products?

Second Quesiton: In the mean time, what do I do about the 'ridges' that are there from the wax? I've thought of ironing them, but I'm afraid of melting the wax and having it wick into the cloth creating an even worse problem. Flat piece of iron bar or something and tap it down?

I'd very much appreciate any suggestions.

thank you in advance

First off - never, ever, ever use bondo to fill the seam.
Bondo and superglue would be even worse - superworse? :)

Durhams Rock hard putty is fine if you want to go that way -
again, lose the Super Glue.

I used wax on my tables in a pool room full of juvenile delinquents who climbed on
them like monkeys - and never had a problem.

FWIW - here is what I did.

Torch, wide blade Stiff paint knife, flexible blade paint knife

1. Grab a hunk of beeswax heat with the flame while sliding along the seam to melt
it so it flows into and completely fills the seam - too much wax is not a problem, you
want to overflow the seam

2. Heat the flex blade knife with the flame as you drag it flat along the seam. You
want to re-melt the wax and spread it into a thin, flat ribbon across the seam. Like icing on a cake.

3. Allow the wax to cool COMPLETELY - no longer warm to the touch.

4. At a very low angle, use the stiff paint knife to scrape off the excess wax.

You may need to do a quick repeat for perfection. You can get the result of
the seam and the seal being undetectable

Back to your question.

I don't think there is a fix at this point that avoids more 'seeping' of the wax that doesn't require
removing the cloth

HTH

Dale

GoldCrown
07-09-2016, 01:52 PM
....................

mortuarymike-nv
07-09-2016, 02:44 PM
Melting point for beeswax

Beeswax has a relatively low melting point range of 62 to 64 C (144 to 147 F). If beeswax is heated above 85 C (185 F) discoloration occurs. The flash point of beeswax is 204.4 C (400 F).

I think controlling the tempt in your garage might be considered after resealing your seems .

I am not a table mechanic, I have done a few tables .......

One of the 9 ft tables I moved , Bondo was used in the seem and over the screw holes.

The bondo chipped or flaked the slate in places, I have used both bondo and bees wax , and I prefer using bees wax.
Buy the wax online at a decent price , put the wax in a zip lock baggie and put the baggie in boiling water .
When the wax melts remove the baggie with the wax out, cut the corner of the baggie and press out the melted wax ..
You have to be fast and as soon as the wax hits the slate it hardens up.
I use a 12 inch straight edge and shave the wax shave flush ..


Your garage is getting to hot ! Have you thought about insulating it ?

kid
07-09-2016, 04:05 PM
Hammering the wax will mark the cloth making a clear white line at the seam. Try rolling a socket on it instead

marc,oelslager
07-09-2016, 05:52 PM
Another thing that works is to put small L brackets into wood backer on slate and into frame supports in the middle of the seam, both sides of support. This will help frame and slate from shifting, as for bondo the seams should have very little if slate is shimmed correctly. When you remove bondo just heat with a torch and scrap.

A lot of table mechanics use what is called a liquid dowel in a couple of spots across the seam. Consists of a playing card, business card or thin flat wood shim which is super glued on both sides creating a dowel like the older slate had. As for putty it seems to dust out over time and is messy.

Good luck

realkingcobra
07-09-2016, 10:21 PM
Posted this is ask the mechanic, best suggestion was to remove cloth- any ideas on how to fix the issue without pulling the cloth?:


Wax weeping at seams- Bump issue - Yesterday, 12:36 PM
I have a table in my garage that I use for practice and play.

When it was installed the installer used a bluish wax to finish the joints on the slate.

Last summer a bump appeared at the joints, the mechanic came out, and found that the wax had seeped (if you will) up when it got hot and had created a ridge under the cloth.

He removed the cloth and scrapped the excess wax. The table has been fine since, until a few weeks ago. We had a string of fairly warm days and low and behold, the ridge (much less prominent this time) has re appeared.

Question: when I do a re cloth, I (the service I use) will definitely use some combination of super glue and rock hard or bondo, that said, how do I remove the wax that is there when it comes time to do it? I assume the wax will interfere with the bonding of the other products?

Second Quesiton: In the mean time, what do I do about the 'ridges' that are there from the wax? I've thought of ironing them, but I'm afraid of melting the wax and having it wick into the cloth creating an even worse problem. Flat piece of iron bar or something and tap it down?

I'd very much appreciate any suggestions.

thank you in advance

The problem yore experiencing is caused from the frame shrinking when it's drying out, it causes the seams to squeeze together, forcing the wax up which creates the bump issue. Do not iron the wax to get it to flatten out, that just sucks the wax up into the cloth and causes it to discolor. If the seams were super glued and bondo was used in the first place this situation would have never happened in the first place....but, there's plenty of stupid people out there that think they know what they're doing, only...in the end...they don't have a clue. Plaster in the seams drys out from being to brittle, then when you vacuum the cloth it spreads the plaster everywhere under the playing surface like gravel. It's funny that someone mentioned NO SUPER GLUE....when ALL the BEST table mechanics in the country would never set up a 3 piece slate without super gluing the seams together as to lock them in place....so that they DON'T move like your slates have. Take to deep well sockets and lay them over the seam about 4" apart, then place a small board on both of them, apply pressure like a steam roller, and slowly roll them back and forth until you've forced the wax back down in the seam, that's only a short term fix, you're going to have to do that every time the frame expands and contracts....until you get the table recovered right, then you won't have to deal with it ever again.

realkingcobra
07-09-2016, 10:26 PM
First off - never, ever, ever use bondo to fill the seam.
Bondo and superglue would be even worse - superworse? :)

Durhams Rock hard putty is fine if you want to go that way -
again, lose the Super Glue.

I used wax on my tables in a pool room full of juvenile delinquents who climbed on
them like monkeys - and never had a problem.

FWIW - here is what I did.

Torch, wide blade Stiff paint knife, flexible blade paint knife

1. Grab a hunk of beeswax heat with the flame while sliding along the seam to melt
it so it flows into and completely fills the seam - too much wax is not a problem, you
want to overflow the seam

2. Heat the flex blade knife with the flame as you drag it flat along the seam. You
want to re-melt the wax and spread it into a thin, flat ribbon across the seam. Like icing on a cake.

3. Allow the wax to cool COMPLETELY - no longer warm to the touch.

4. At a very low angle, use the stiff paint knife to scrape off the excess wax.

You may need to do a quick repeat for perfection. You can get the result of
the seam and the seal being undetectable

Back to your question.

I don't think there is a fix at this point that avoids more 'seeping' of the wax that doesn't require
removing the cloth

HTH

Dale

Worst advice I've ever seen given on AZB!!!! Stick to your day job and leave the advice about fixing pool tables to the experts!!!

Ralph Kramden
07-10-2016, 09:01 AM
First off - never, ever, ever use bondo to fill the seam.
Bondo and superglue would be even worse - superworse? :)

Durhams Rock hard putty is fine if you want to go that way -
again, lose the Super Glue.

I used wax on my tables in a pool room full of juvenile delinquents who climbed on
them like monkeys - and never had a problem.

FWIW - here is what I did.

Torch, wide blade Stiff paint knife, flexible blade paint knife

1. Grab a hunk of beeswax heat with the flame while sliding along the seam to melt
it so it flows into and completely fills the seam - too much wax is not a problem, you
want to overflow the seam

2. Heat the flex blade knife with the flame as you drag it flat along the seam. You
want to re-melt the wax and spread it into a thin, flat ribbon across the seam. Like icing on a cake.

3. Allow the wax to cool COMPLETELY - no longer warm to the touch.

4. At a very low angle, use the stiff paint knife to scrape off the excess wax.

You may need to do a quick repeat for perfection. You can get the result of
the seam and the seal being undetectable

Back to your question.

I don't think there is a fix at this point that avoids more 'seeping' of the wax that doesn't require
removing the cloth

HTH

Dale

Durhams Rock Hard Putty will eventually break down. The putty will crumble under the cloth. Humidity and
bouncing balls will affect Rock Hard Putty.... If you wet the cloth to clean it the problem will intensify quickly.

I'm not a table mechanic, but I only speak from my previous experiences using Rock Hard Putty. Use Bondo.

.

pocket
07-10-2016, 02:35 PM
snip snip Call Butch Jette 501-428-1500, he said he'd be glad to help...snip snip

You asked him about my issue? That's very kind thanks for doing that.

If u want a quick fix just tap the wax back down or flat...snip snip... Hope that helps, the tapping with hammer will work until recovery time.

Marc

Thanks looks like something like this is my best bet.

Hammering the wax will mark the cloth making a clear white line at the seam. Try rolling a socket on it instead

Socket, got it thanks!

snip snip snip...Take to deep well sockets and lay them over the seam about 4" apart, then place a small board on both of them, apply pressure like a steam roller, and slowly roll them back and forth until you've forced the wax back down in the seam, that's only a short term fix, you're going to have to do that every time the frame expands and contracts....until you get the table recovered right, then you won't have to deal with it ever again.

Thanks RKC i'll give that a try.

pocket
07-10-2016, 02:36 PM
Thanks for everyone who took the time to reply, good information and I think I have a good strategy going forward.

Appreciate it!

pdcue
07-14-2016, 08:06 PM
Worst advice I've ever seen given on AZB!!!! Stick to your day job and leave the advice about fixing pool tables to the experts!!!

So, I see you know even less about super glue than you do about other things you think you
know a lot about.

Dale

realkingcobra
07-14-2016, 08:30 PM
So, I see you know even less about super glue than you do about other things you think you
know a lot about.

Dale

Dale...find ONE reputable table mechanice that agrees with you that using super glue to lock the slate seams together so they don't come apart on their own is a bad idea and should NEVER....in your words be done!!! I'll give you a year to find one that agrees with you, but let's make this a little worth while ok.....so, how about putting your money in that FAT mouth of yours and bet say $1000 that you can back up your claim and I'll take that bet!!!!

W.Earp
07-15-2016, 05:09 AM
Heat is probably not your only problem. Depending on your location and time of year, the humidity in the air will cause the wood in your table to expand and contract and could likely be the cause of some of your issues. I would recommend using using a wood block between the hammer and table if you decide to use the tapping method to flatten the wax. We have used bondo with some success. Rock Hard doesnt last.