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View Full Version : man witnessed sad action last night - 2 idiots in a pool room


Mustardeer
07-16-2016, 05:08 PM
So last night this room's regular, guy A, who can sort of play a little bit is playing this guy B for $50 a game. Guy B is down $650 already when I get there. This is really late at night. The room is packed. Guy B can't play. He's spinning the ball here and there but struggling with simple long shots. Guy B is trying so hard and keeps saying he's gonna win his money back, keeps trying. It was really hard to watch for some reason. Totally different speeds. Guy B definitely wasn't hustling, that was his actual speed. They were playing without a handicap - guy B had zero chance but didn't realize it. Finally I decided to step in and stop the bleeding. ( I thought guy B's ego just didn't know how to throw in the towel. I felt really bad for the guy ).

Guy A had his student there hanging out. So I dragged the student to another table and raced him to 2. I "lost" both games. Then I go back to the main table and start whining - I wanna get in! please race me to 5 for 500! I'm gonna need some weight though. To my shock guy A without negotiating just straight up offers me 3 games on the wire in a race to 5 ( he already knew his student "beat" me ). Wow. What an idiot. ( I'm nowhere near pro speed but significantly better than both guy A and guy B. Unfortunately he only wanted to race for a 100 since he didn't know me. Fine. I wasn't looking for action, I hate gambling - just wanted to stop the bleeding. Guy B lets us race on his table, I easily beat guy A. Take my 100. Guy A says next time we play without handicap. I go sure. Then the idiot guy B just can't wait to get back to the table. He wants to keep playing guy A!! What an idiot. That was his chance to say he's tired. Did you just not witness a guy on a totally different level than you? What are you doing. go home. ( I didn't say that ). I went home. They kept playing. I'm guessing guy B ended up dropping a few thousand.

PoolBum
07-16-2016, 05:11 PM
Please tell me where I can find a guy who can "sort of play a little bit" who will play me for $50 a game.

RiverCity
07-16-2016, 05:12 PM
So last night this room's regular, guy A, who can sort of play a little bit is playing this guy B for $50 a game. Guy B is down $650 already when I get there. This is really late at night. The room is packed. Guy B can't play. He's spinning the ball here and there but struggling with simple long shots. Guy B is trying so hard and keeps saying he's gonna win his money back, keeps trying. It was really hard to watch for some reason. Totally different speeds. Guy B definitely wasn't hustling, that was his actual speed. They were playing without a handicap - guy B had zero chance but didn't realize it. Finally I decided to step in and stop the bleeding. ( I thought guy B's ego just didn't know how to throw in the towel. I felt really bad for the guy ).

Guy A had his student there hanging out. So I dragged the student to another table and raced him to 2. I "lost" both games. Then I go back to the main table and start whining - I wanna get in! please race me to 5 for 500! I'm gonna need some weight though. To my shock guy A without negotiating just straight up offers me 3 games on the wire in a race to 5 ( he already knew his student "beat" me ). Wow. What an idiot. ( I'm nowhere near pro speed but significantly better than both guy A and guy B. Unfortunately he only wanted to race for a 100 since he didn't know me. Fine. I wasn't looking for action, I hate gambling - just wanted to stop the bleeding. Guy B lets us race on his table, I easily beat guy A. Take my 100. Guy A says next time we play without handicap. I go sure. Then the idiot guy B just can't wait to get back to the table. He wants to keep playing guy A!! What an idiot. That was his chance to say he's tired. Did you just not witness a guy on a totally different level than you? What are you doing. go home. ( I didn't say that ). I went home. They kept playing. I'm guessing guy B ended up dropping a few thousand.

http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/George-Cheers.gif

Tramp Steamer
07-16-2016, 05:28 PM
Idiots are full of poolrooms, and vice versa.
There's one guy who comes in where me and my cronies play who we refer to as the local punching bag. Three guys take turns beating the crap out of him to the tune of several hundred dollars a session.
I asked one of them if he didn't feel a little sorry for the fellow. He looked at me like I had forgotten where we were. A pool hall. :)

Bavafongoul
07-16-2016, 05:34 PM
You cannot save a drowning man, figuratively speaking, with his pool wagers when all he wants to do is splash water around.

Mustardeer
07-16-2016, 06:12 PM
Please tell me where I can find a guy who can "sort of play a little bit" who will play me for $50 a game.
Ha. Sorry not telling.

bbb
07-16-2016, 06:23 PM
mustardeer
in the old days you would be broken in pieces to get into someone elses game
if you are not involved its none of your business
just sayin..:D

GoldCrown
07-16-2016, 06:37 PM
mustardeer
in the old days you would be broken in pieces to get into someone elses game
if you are not involved its none of your business
just sayin..:D

These days might be worse than the old days. Fuses are shorter...

maha
07-16-2016, 06:46 PM
i can see who the idiot is in that pool room.

RiverCity
07-16-2016, 06:47 PM
These days might be worse than the old days. Fuses are shorter...

I feel the need to tell this one..... ;)

A buddy of mine one time got a wild hair and wanted to play me some one pocket. Its not my best game, but figuring I could usually give the guy the 8, I said "Sure." Then, out of nowhere, the most beautiful sounds I had ever heard...... He tells me, "You got 10-6 for a $100 a game" :thumbup:

After enjoying this action for a few days keeping it close, but staying well ahead, another guy sticks his nose in and takes my thunder. My buddy comes to me and says thats too big of a spot, the POOL ROOM OWNER told him so. I said no problem, can I have 9-7? "Sure" he said...... I got my smile back. You know that one that you dont show on your face, but makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside??? :thumbup:

And yes we were indeed friends, are to this day...... but we gambled hard with each other, Matter of fact, he won the last set of 9 ball we played for $500. ;)

pt109
07-16-2016, 06:53 PM
mustardeer
in the old days you would be broken in pieces to get into someone elses game
if you are not involved its none of your business
just sayin..:D

That's what I was thinking, B.

Nobody was getting mugged.

I certainly wouldn't let the OP see my hole card at a poker game.

Mustardeer
07-16-2016, 07:09 PM
mustardeer
in the old days you would be broken in pieces to get into someone elses game
if you are not involved its none of your business
just sayin..:D

I agree. Won't repeat. I just felt bad for the guy, I've been there once myself years ago..

Guy A wanted me to wait but feared losing an easy 100. He knew he had guy B on the hook and he wasnt going anywhere. I played it like I was about to walk out.

Str8PoolPlayer
07-16-2016, 07:48 PM
mustardeer
in the old days you would be broken in pieces to get into someone elses game
if you are not involved its none of your business
just sayin..:D

I'll validate that statement. In the old days "you knew your place" in each room you visited.

BmoreMoney
07-16-2016, 08:37 PM
What never had your nose open? I know I sure have. Also bbb is spot on. In any case sounds like a decent score, glad to hear there's still some of them around.

cubswin
07-16-2016, 08:44 PM
Why you sticking your nose in other peoples games?

justinb386
07-16-2016, 08:45 PM
So last night this room's regular, guy A, who can sort of play a little bit is playing this guy B for $50 a game. Guy B is down $650 already when I get there. This is really late at night. The room is packed. Guy B can't play. He's spinning the ball here and there but struggling with simple long shots. Guy B is trying so hard and keeps saying he's gonna win his money back, keeps trying. It was really hard to watch for some reason. Totally different speeds. Guy B definitely wasn't hustling, that was his actual speed. They were playing without a handicap - guy B had zero chance but didn't realize it. Finally I decided to step in and stop the bleeding. ( I thought guy B's ego just didn't know how to throw in the towel. I felt really bad for the guy ).

Guy A had his student there hanging out. So I dragged the student to another table and raced him to 2. I "lost" both games. Then I go back to the main table and start whining - I wanna get in! please race me to 5 for 500! I'm gonna need some weight though. To my shock guy A without negotiating just straight up offers me 3 games on the wire in a race to 5 ( he already knew his student "beat" me ). Wow. What an idiot. ( I'm nowhere near pro speed but significantly better than both guy A and guy B. Unfortunately he only wanted to race for a 100 since he didn't know me. Fine. I wasn't looking for action, I hate gambling - just wanted to stop the bleeding. Guy B lets us race on his table, I easily beat guy A. Take my 100. Guy A says next time we play without handicap. I go sure. Then the idiot guy B just can't wait to get back to the table. He wants to keep playing guy A!! What an idiot. That was his chance to say he's tired. Did you just not witness a guy on a totally different level than you? What are you doing. go home. ( I didn't say that ). I went home. They kept playing. I'm guessing guy B ended up dropping a few thousand.

I have seen that type of scenario so many times in the past (where one player is way out of the other players league, and they play even without a spot all night long, and the much weaker player never quits until either he runs out of money or the bar / pool hall closes ), and the weaker player just has such a big ego, that he never gives up hope that he can at least get back to even. The thing is, that I have never seen this scenario for more then like $5 or $10 a game. I can't even imagine $50 a game in that same scenario. That is crazy, I think.

justinb386
07-16-2016, 08:52 PM
Please tell me where I can find a guy who can "sort of play a little bit" who will play me for $50 a game.

Go to paducah KY. You will find many straight up gamblers there, that are not very good. type of guys that will play you $5 a game all night long (losing every game), and never quit, and never ask you for a spot. I do not know about $50a game though.

Mustardeer
07-16-2016, 09:33 PM
Why is everybody acting like I was trying to steal guy B from A for myself ?

Everybody was happy. It wasn't a big deal. Only one guy in the crowd figured out what was happening and tried to give me a hard time for a sec. No big deal.

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 12:11 AM
Why is everybody acting like I was trying to steal guy B from A for myself ?

Everybody was happy. It wasn't a big deal. Only one guy in the crowd figured out what was happening and tried to give me a hard time for a sec. No big deal.

Nobody thinks u were trying to steal the action. Everyone thinks you were trying to kill the action , which is the problem.

Mustardeer
07-17-2016, 01:35 AM
Nobody thinks u were trying to steal the action. Everyone thinks you were trying to kill the action , which is the problem.

Oh I see. Well you had to be there. It was really hard to watch. The guy losing was a grown man in his forties..

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 01:38 AM
Oh I see. Well you had to be there. It was really hard to watch. The guy losing was a grown man in his forties..

Imo, that's even more reason not to get into hiz biz.

Poolplaya9
07-17-2016, 02:37 AM
Well you had to be there. It was really hard to watch. The guy losing was a grown man in his forties..

What you are not understanding is that in the pool world most see this not only as being acceptable, but as a beautiful thing. Everyone agrees that it is wrong to take the lollipop from the baby. Everyone agrees that it is not ok for a man to beat a woman. Everyone agrees that it is wrong for the cashier to give a blind guy back less change than he should be getting back. Nowhere else in life is it seen as ok to take advantage of people or to pick on the defenseless except in the pool world where it is seen as something to be proud of and to be held in high esteem because of.

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 02:59 AM
What you are not understanding is that in the pool world most see this not only as being acceptable, but as a beautiful thing. Everyone agrees that it is wrong to take the lollipop from the baby. Everyone agrees that it is not ok for a man to beat a woman. Everyone agrees that it is wrong for the cashier to give a blind guy back less change than he should be getting back. Nowhere else in life is it seen as ok to take advantage of people or to pick on the defenseless except in the pool world where it is seen as something to be proud of and to be held in high esteem because of.

All true. But this is called gambling, being done by two willing adults. Would you care too much for a ( stranger ) to not only tell you what to do with your money but also physically interject themselves to stop you from doing what you wanted with you're money?

Johnny Rosato
07-17-2016, 03:03 AM
lol,he STILL don't get it !!!

Poolplaya9
07-17-2016, 03:15 AM
All true. But this is called gambling, being done by two willing adults. Would you care too much for a ( stranger ) to not only tell you what to do with your money but also physically interject themselves to stop you from doing what you wanted with you're money?

I know what you are getting at and there is a fine line in there but yes, I would want to know when I am being deceived and taken advantage of just like you and every other person in the world would. The "two willing adults" argument holds no water and isn't what makes the difference. The transaction between the cashier and the blind man (where the cashier intentionally gives him back less change than he is owed) is between two willing adults. What makes the difference is not whether both parties are adults, and willing, the difference is whether or not there is a deception being done to take advantage of someone.

Intentionally deceiving someone to take advantage of them is universally seen as wrong in literally pretty much every other situation on earth. For some reason that is not logical, the pool world has decided to see things differently when it comes to trying to get somebody's money playing pool.

Now I wasn't there in this case to be able to make a judgement on it. I don't know how much deception was going on, or how much player B was being taken advantage of.

Charlie Hustle
07-17-2016, 03:17 AM
What you are not understanding is that in the pool world most see this not only as being acceptable, but as a beautiful thing. Everyone agrees that it is wrong to take the lollipop from the baby. Everyone agrees that it is not ok for a man to beat a woman. Everyone agrees that it is wrong for the cashier to give a blind guy back less change than he should be getting back. Nowhere else in life is it seen as ok to take advantage of people or to pick on the defenseless except in the pool world where it is seen as something to be proud of and to be held in high esteem because of.

Have to spread some rep around before giving you some again, but I agree with you 100%

BeiberLvr
07-17-2016, 03:29 AM
I know what you are getting at and there is a fine line in there but yes, I would want to know when I am being deceived and taken advantage of just like you and every other person in the world would. The "two willing adults" argument holds no water and isn't what makes the difference. The transaction between the cashier and the blind man (where the cashier intentionally gives him back less change than he is owed) is between two willing adults. What makes the difference is not whether both parties are adults, and willing, the difference is whether or not there is a deception being done to take advantage of someone.

Intentionally deceiving someone to take advantage of them is universally seen as wrong in literally pretty much every other situation on earth. For some reason that is not logical, the pool world has decided to see things differently when it comes to trying to get somebody's money playing pool.

Now I wasn't there in this case to be able to make a judgement on it. I don't know how much deception was going on, or how much player B was being taken advantage of.

The same thing can happen in Open tournaments. Weaker players that have no shot of winning (but think they do) will put up their money to play. Hence the term, "dead money"

So what's the difference? I get that in a gambling situation, the weaker player could and likely is being intentionally deceived. However, in both situations it is the weaker player's faulty analysis of their own game that got them there.

Mustardeer
07-17-2016, 03:29 AM
lol,he STILL don't get it !!!

If you saw a man putting in $50 chips in Vegas every 5 min ( slut machine ) and you knew for a FACT that particular machine was dead would you not say something?

Especially if that man was down big bucks already and was desperately trying to come back and thought he had a big chance.

If you did you would be killing the action for the casino owner..

Maybe I didn't tell the story right: guy B had ZERO chance of coming back. No chance.

----

Let me put it another way. If a B+ player is playing SVB 50/game. He has no idea who SVB is. You do. SVB takes a bathroom break. B+ player is down a grand already. He's standing next to you and goes "I can get him! I know I'm better than this clown! He's getting lucky rolls!". Do you not go "dude, that's um shane van boening, chill, he's not only a pro but one of the best in the world". Or do you keep your mouth shut and enjoy the action

BeiberLvr
07-17-2016, 03:41 AM
If you saw a man putting in $50 chips in Vegas every 5 min ( slut machine ) and you knew for a FACT that particular machine was dead would you not say something?

Especially if that man was down big bucks already and was desperately trying to come back and thought he had a big chance.

If you did you would be killing the action for the casino owner..

Maybe I didn't tell the story right: guy B had ZERO chance of coming back. No chance.

----

Let me put it another way. If a B+ player is playing SVB 50/game. He has no idea who SVB is. You do. SVB takes a bathroom break. B+ player is down a grand already. He's standing next to you and goes "I can get him! I know I'm better than this clown! He's getting lucky rolls!". Do you not go "dude, that's um shane van boening, chill, he's not only a pro but one of the best in the world". Or do you keep your mouth shut and enjoy the action

No. No. No. No.

If someone wants to gamble their money then they should have every right to do so.


I bought my car in 2012, and I'm sure I didn't get the best deal. Where were you then?

Poolplaya9
07-17-2016, 03:47 AM
The same thing can happen in Open tournaments. Weaker players that have no shot of winning (but think they do) will put up their money to play. Hence the term, "dead money"

So what's the difference? I get that in a gambling situation, the weaker player could and likely is being intentionally deceived. However, in both situations it is the weaker player's faulty analysis of their own game that got them there.

Again, it is real simple. If nobody is trying to take advantage of anyone else, there is no problem. If someone is trying to take advantage of someone else then of course it isn't right and we all know that. We don't accept it or see it as being right anywhere else in life and there is no logical reason whatsoever for seeing it any different in pool.

poolandpokerman
07-17-2016, 03:53 AM
If you saw a man putting in $50 chips in Vegas every 5 min ( slut machine ) and you knew for a FACT that particular machine was dead would you not say something?

Especially if that man was down big bucks already and was desperately trying to come back and thought he had a big chance.

If you did you would be killing the action for the casino owner..

Maybe I didn't tell the story right: guy B had ZERO chance of coming back. No chance.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I was spending my money the way I wanted to spend it NO, I would not want you to say anything about what I was doing with my money. Sorry, don't take it personal, I am sure you thought you were doing the right thing, but I do not want anyone saying what I should do with my money. Back to the original post, if you gamble at pool you will not always have the "nuts", you will win and lose. So it is nice when you do have get the nuts because it help pays for when you are the underdog and lose some.
Tom

BeiberLvr
07-17-2016, 04:03 AM
Again, it is real simple. If nobody is trying to take advantage of anyone else, there is no problem. If someone is trying to take advantage of someone else then of course it isn't right and we all know that. We don't accept it or see it as being right anywhere else in life and there is no logical reason whatsoever for seeing it any different in pool.



Let's go back to your example of the cashier giving the blind man the wrong change.

The blind man is the one who is being taken advantage of in that example. But if no one else is around, the blind man wouldn't know he was receiving the wrong change. In other words, there is nothing to prevent the blind man from being taken advantage of.

Back to the OP's example, or any example of a weaker player getting into a match they can't win. The weaker player doesn't have to play.

Poolplaya9
07-17-2016, 04:05 AM
If I was spending my money the way I wanted to spend it NO, I would not want you to say anything about what I was doing with my money.

But if you were being deceived or taken advantage of you would not be spending the money the way you wanted to now would you? If you thought you were putting your money towards one thing (which is how you want to spend you money) but the reality was that it was something else, then you are not at all spending your money the way you wanted to.

Take the example from his post, which I quoted below. There is nobody on earth, including you, that wouldn't want to be told they were playing SVB. Anybody that tries to claim otherwise (although I doubt anybody will) is a liar, or just not being honest with themselves.

Let me put it another way. If a B+ player is playing SVB 50/game. He has no idea who SVB is. You do. SVB takes a bathroom break. B+ player is down a grand already. He's standing next to you and goes "I can get him! I know I'm better than this clown! He's getting lucky rolls!". Do you not go "dude, that's um shane van boening, chill, he's not only a pro but one of the best in the world". Or do you keep your mouth shut and enjoy the action

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 04:07 AM
I know what you are getting at and there is a fine line in there but yes, I would want to know when I am being deceived and taken advantage of just like you and every other person in the world would. The "two willing adults" argument holds no water and isn't what makes the difference. The transaction between the cashier and the blind man (where the cashier intentionally gives him back less change than he is owed) is between two willing adults. What makes the difference is not whether both parties are adults, and willing, the difference is whether or not there is a deception being done to take advantage of someone.

Intentionally deceiving someone to take advantage of them is universally seen as wrong in literally pretty much every other situation on earth. For some reason that is not logical, the pool world has decided to see things differently when it comes to trying to get somebody's money playing pool.

Now I wasn't there in this case to be able to make a judgement on it. I don't know how much deception was going on, or how much player B was being taken advantage of.

We are gonna just have to disagree, same old song and dance that comes up frequently and clearly there are two entrenched sides.Couple things we all should agree on, most times if you go in and kill someone's action like that you are gonna have a problem on you're hands.Could've been people betting on the rail. As I've said before, being able to gauge speed is more important than actually how you play. Dude was paying his dues on his way to getting better - most of us have. Lastly, pool needs money infused from somewhere otherwise what are we gonna have left? Money has to come from somewhere and it sure ain't like it was back in the day.Everyone's dead, in jail, or whatever but it just isn't there like it used to be.

Poolplaya9
07-17-2016, 04:09 AM
The blind man is the one who is being taken advantage of in that example. But if no one else is around, the blind man wouldn't know he was receiving the wrong change. In other words, there is nothing to prevent the blind man from being taken advantage of.

Back to the OP's example, or any example of a weaker player getting into a match they can't win. The weaker player doesn't have to play.

The blind man didn't have to go to the store either. He could have someone else go for him. He could take someone with him. He could wait outside until another customer came and ask for that customer to help him make sure he got the right change.

Just because a guy doesn't have to play pool for money doesn't make it ok to take advantage of him. A girl doesn't have to leave her house either (or go to the park), but "well she didn't have to leave her house" or "well she didn't have to go to the park" isn't an acceptable justification if she gets raped.

You are trying to create some difference where there is none. You are trying to create some justification where none exists. Anybody that truly thinks about it with logic and honesty will see that taking advantage of somebody in the pool is no different at all than taking advantage of somebody anywhere else in life.

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 04:24 AM
Guess none of Yall have been in a bad game and knew and chased your money huh? This guy could have known it but just chasing. Maybe there was no one else to play and he really wanted some action. This is just some more of the " everyone should get a trophy " crap. This is a competition, don't know what you're doing stay outta the box!

Poolplaya9
07-17-2016, 04:32 AM
Guess none of Yall have been in a bad game and knew and chased your money huh? This guy could have known it but just chasing. Maybe there was no one else to play and he really wanted some action.

Being in a bad game and knowing it and still choosing to do it anyway falls under the category of nobody taking advantage of anybody. That isn't the type of scenario that was being discussed and I don't think anybody sees any problem with it.

Fenwick
07-17-2016, 04:41 AM
Nobody thinks u were trying to steal the action. Everyone thinks you were trying to kill the action , which is the problem.

Exactly! You don't know if player A depends on player B's money as a supplement. I'm not even going to try to explain that to you.

What you did is like stepping in between a man and a woman arguing. That's what the bouncer and the cops are for. I knew someone who did that once and she broke a beer bottle and dam near killed the person who stood up for her for hurting her man. Same difference. I know, oxymoron.

pt109
07-17-2016, 05:30 AM
So.....let me get this straight.
If the OP, Playa, or Charlie were at a poker game and saw the one of the players had the
best hand, you guys feel it is okay to warn the other players?

Fenwick
07-17-2016, 05:53 AM
So.....let me get this straight.
If the OP, Playa, or Charlie were at a poker game and saw the one of the players had the
best hand, you guys feel it is okay to warn the other players?

Not me................................

Poolplaya9
07-17-2016, 06:05 AM
So.....let me get this straight.
If the OP, Playa, or Charlie were at a poker game and saw the one of the players had the
best hand, you guys feel it is okay to warn the other players?

Why would you, nobody is being deceived or taken advantage of. Now if you saw him stash an ace up his sleeve that might be a different story, or maybe if he was a long time great player whose first words when he sat down at the table were "what are the rules again and is it the full house or the straight that is the better hand I never can remember".

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 06:10 AM
Why would you, nobody is being deceived or taken advantage of. Now if you saw him stash an ace up his sleeve that might be a different story, or maybe if he was a long time great player whose first words when he sat down at the table were "what are the rules again and is it the full house or the straight that is the better hand I never can remember".

Gimme a break lol. The guy with the ace doesn't walk out of the game, and that is different any way - that's like getting caught stealing balls in one pocket.

Neil
07-17-2016, 06:15 AM
The blind man didn't have to go to the store either. He could have someone else go for him. He could take someone with him. He could wait outside until another customer came and ask for that customer to help him make sure he got the right change.

Just because a guy doesn't have to play pool for money doesn't make it ok to take advantage of him. A girl doesn't have to leave her house either (or go to the park), but "well she didn't have to leave her house" or "well she didn't have to go to the park" isn't an acceptable justification if she gets raped.

You are trying to create some difference where there is none. You are trying to create some justification where none exists. Anybody that truly thinks about it with logic and honesty will see that taking advantage of somebody in the pool is no different at all than taking advantage of somebody anywhere else in life.

The fault in your logic is that you automatically assume that he is being taken advantage of just because he is losing. Which means, to you, the only goal is to win money. That is not true in all cases. There are a number of reasons that him losing is nothing more than what he is willing to pay for what he is gaining at the time.

BeiberLvr
07-17-2016, 06:29 AM
Being in a bad game and knowing it and still choosing to do it anyway falls under the category of nobody taking advantage of anybody. That isn't the type of scenario that was being discussed and I don't think anybody sees any problem with it.

In the OP's example, after Player B loses so much money, surely he knows he's in a bad game.

The reason that he, and others continue in those situations, is pride. Some people have egos so big that they'll keep going until they can't go any further. When you leave your ego at the door, you can't be taken advantage of.

Poolplaya9
07-17-2016, 06:30 AM
The fault in your logic is that you automatically assume that he is being taken advantage of just because he is losing. Which means, to you, the only goal is to win money. That is not true in all cases. There are a number of reasons that him losing is nothing more than what he is willing to pay for what he is gaining at the time.
You clearly didn't read all my posts. I have said nothing to lead you to believe that I am automatically assuming he is being taken advantage of just because he is losing. In fact I said several things that show that I am not assuming that at all, in several different posts. I even specifically mentioned the example you are using, that someone could be willing to pay for what they are gaining at the time. Not sure how you missed them, but you clearly missed several of my posts.

BeiberLvr
07-17-2016, 06:34 AM
Why would you, nobody is being deceived or taken advantage of. Now if you saw him stash an ace up his sleeve that might be a different story, or maybe if he was a long time great player whose first words when he sat down at the table were "what are the rules again and is it the full house or the straight that is the better hand I never can remember".

Now you're equating hustling to cheating?

Lou Loulacy
07-17-2016, 06:36 AM
Have to agree with pool playa, defended his point well. I believe part of the reason pool isn't growing. People prey off the newbies. They get bitten hard and never come back.

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Poolplaya9
07-17-2016, 06:36 AM
In the OP's example, after Player B loses so much money, surely he knows he's in a bad game.

The reason that he, and others continue in those situations, is pride. Some people have egos so big that they'll keep going until they can't go any further. When you leave your ego at the door, you can't be taken advantage of.

That isn't necessarily the only reason. Maybe player A was making it look like he was getting lucky. There are tons of other reasons it could be also if you took a few seconds to think about it.

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 06:38 AM
Have to agree with pool playa, defended his point well. I believe part of the reason pool isn't growing. People prey off the newbies. They get bitten hard and never come back.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

It's not the reason. It's been this way FOREVA

Poolplaya9
07-17-2016, 06:43 AM
Now you're equating hustling to cheating?

Define what you mean by hustling.

One of the most obvious hustles in pool is claiming to not play nearly as good as you actually do, or the old "I haven't played in six months" spiel, both of which are like one of the examples I gave for the card game. As for the ace example, it was simply another example of when you might say something in the card game example he used and wasn't meant to say that all pool hustling is equally egregious, but you already knew that.

BeiberLvr
07-17-2016, 07:10 AM
Define what you mean by hustling.

One of the most obvious hustles in pool is claiming to not play nearly as good as you actually do, or the old "I haven't played in six months" spiel, both of which are like one of the examples I gave for the card game. As for the ace example, it was simply another example of when you might say something in the card game example he used and wasn't meant to say that all pool hustling is equally egregious, but you already knew that.

I think you defined hustling the same way I would.

But it's not cheating. The people getting cheated might not have a way out of the hand, and are "forced" to lose a lot of money. A person getting hustled can always step away, but they usually don't. Again...ego.

The main crux we keep skirting around isn't whether or not taking advantage of someone in pool is any more or less tolerable than other scenarios. It's whether or not it's okay for the OP, as a complete stranger, to interfere.

It's not, plain and simple.

But if you think it's okay, then go to a casino and look for the saddest person you can find on a slot machine. Tell them, "Hey there. Look around this place. Look at how everything is set up. It's designed in such a way to entice you to stay and keep gambling until you have no more money. You are being taken advantage of, and you should leave right now so you don't lose any more."

Just don't be surprised when they tell you to STFU and get out of their face.

Again...ego.

Poolplaya9
07-17-2016, 07:18 AM
The main crux we keep skirting around isn't whether or not taking advantage of someone in pool is any more or less tolerable than other scenarios. It's whether or not it's okay for the OP, as a complete stranger, to interfere.

It's not, plain and simple.

I agree with your first paragraph. It is your second paragraph where you are wrong. If someone is truly being taken advantage of, or deceived, and they weren't aware of it, they will almost always want to know. The OP's SVB example was a perfect example. Not a single person in the world including you wouldn't want to be told it was SVB. Now if somebody already knows they are being taken advantage of, and is willingly doing it anyway (like in your casino example), then yes they probably don't want to hear what they already know because, you guessed it, they already knew.

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 07:39 AM
I agree with your first paragraph. It is your second paragraph where you are wrong. If someone is truly being taken advantage of, or deceived, and they weren't aware of it, they will almost always want to know. The OP's SVB example was a perfect example. Not a single person in the world including you wouldn't want to be told it was SVB. Now if somebody already knows they are being taken advantage of, and is willingly doing it anyway (like in your casino example), then yes they probably don't want to hear what they already know because, you guessed it, they already knew.

I know where you spent most of your time and that's probably why you feel the way you do but how much time have you spent in the pool world? Do you think we've never run into a buzz saw lol???? It happens and can't tell you how many times we all had a good laugh about it afterwards.

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 07:44 AM
Another thing, so when the interference came dude was down what $1000 at 50 a game? I think that would be 20 games. Sorry, but if you get stuck 20!!! Games and don't pull up or ask to adjust then..........

alstl
07-17-2016, 07:51 AM
When I see a story like that I wonder where "guy B" gets his cash. I live in a college town and a lot of college kids act like that because it is rich Daddy's money.

KissedOut
07-17-2016, 08:28 AM
So last night this room's regular, guy A, who can sort of play a little bit is playing this guy B for $50 a game. Guy B is down $650 already when I get there. This is really late at night. The room is packed. Guy B can't play. He's spinning the ball here and there but struggling with simple long shots. Guy B is trying so hard and keeps saying he's gonna win his money back, keeps trying. It was really hard to watch for some reason. Totally different speeds. Guy B definitely wasn't hustling, that was his actual speed. They were playing without a handicap - guy B had zero chance but didn't realize it. Finally I decided to step in and stop the bleeding. ( I thought guy B's ego just didn't know how to throw in the towel. I felt really bad for the guy ).

Guy A had his student there hanging out. So I dragged the student to another table and raced him to 2. I "lost" both games. Then I go back to the main table and start whining - I wanna get in! please race me to 5 for 500! I'm gonna need some weight though. To my shock guy A without negotiating just straight up offers me 3 games on the wire in a race to 5 ( he already knew his student "beat" me ). Wow. What an idiot. ( I'm nowhere near pro speed but significantly better than both guy A and guy B. Unfortunately he only wanted to race for a 100 since he didn't know me. Fine. I wasn't looking for action, I hate gambling - just wanted to stop the bleeding. Guy B lets us race on his table, I easily beat guy A. Take my 100. Guy A says next time we play without handicap. I go sure. Then the idiot guy B just can't wait to get back to the table. He wants to keep playing guy A!! What an idiot. That was his chance to say he's tired. Did you just not witness a guy on a totally different level than you? What are you doing. go home. ( I didn't say that ). I went home. They kept playing. I'm guessing guy B ended up dropping a few thousand.

So, basically a story about how you stole $100 from player A by misrepresenting yourself by dumping 2 games. Complete with a self-serving altruistic rationalization.

You're right, very sad action. At least Player A won his money honestly from Player B.

KissedOut
07-17-2016, 08:34 AM
I know what you are getting at and there is a fine line in there but yes, I would want to know when I am being deceived and taken advantage of just like you and every other person in the world would. The "two willing adults" argument holds no water and isn't what makes the difference. The transaction between the cashier and the blind man (where the cashier intentionally gives him back less change than he is owed) is between two willing adults. What makes the difference is not whether both parties are adults, and willing, the difference is whether or not there is a deception being done to take advantage of someone.

Intentionally deceiving someone to take advantage of them is universally seen as wrong in literally pretty much every other situation on earth. For some reason that is not logical, the pool world has decided to see things differently when it comes to trying to get somebody's money playing pool.

Now I wasn't there in this case to be able to make a judgement on it. I don't know how much deception was going on, or how much player B was being taken advantage of.

Except in this case the only person intentionally deceiving anyone was the OP, who hustled $100 out of Player A by dumping 2 games to his student.

There is a difference between gambling and hustling. Nothing in the OP's post suggests that Player A was hustling Player B. But OP clearly hustled Player A.

KissedOut
07-17-2016, 08:38 AM
Now you're equating hustling to cheating?

Worse. It is stealing. Assuming that we are not equating hustling with gambling.

Johnny Rosato
07-17-2016, 08:43 AM
Except in this case the only person intentionally deceiving anyone was the OP, who hustled $100 out of Player A by dumping 2 games to his student.

There is a difference between gambling and hustling. Nothing in the OP's post suggests that Player A was hustling Player B. But OP clearly hustled Player A.
Good catch KissedOut,I was wondering when someone was gonna mention this !!! LOL

jasonlaus
07-17-2016, 09:04 AM
Except in this case the only person intentionally deceiving anyone was the OP, who hustled $100 out of Player A by dumping 2 games to his student.

There is a difference between gambling and hustling. Nothing in the OP's post suggests that Player A was hustling Player B. But OP clearly hustled Player A.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To the OP

Keep you nose out of other peoples business, or eventually it will get broke. This is a lesson usually learned very early in life........some people have a hard time learning though.

You sir are the dishonest one, and I'm only saying that cause of the high horse you came riding in on.
Jason

realkingcobra
07-17-2016, 09:54 AM
mustardeer
in the old days you would be broken in pieces to get into someone elses game
if you are not involved its none of your business
just sayin..:D

I second that for sure....old days or not! First rule of gambling, NEVER get involved in someone else's action.....wait your turn!!!

realkingcobra
07-17-2016, 09:58 AM
So last night this room's regular, guy A, who can sort of play a little bit is playing this guy B for $50 a game. Guy B is down $650 already when I get there. This is really late at night. The room is packed. Guy B can't play. He's spinning the ball here and there but struggling with simple long shots. Guy B is trying so hard and keeps saying he's gonna win his money back, keeps trying. It was really hard to watch for some reason. Totally different speeds. Guy B definitely wasn't hustling, that was his actual speed. They were playing without a handicap - guy B had zero chance but didn't realize it. Finally I decided to step in and stop the bleeding. ( I thought guy B's ego just didn't know how to throw in the towel. I felt really bad for the guy ).

Guy A had his student there hanging out. So I dragged the student to another table and raced him to 2. I "lost" both games. Then I go back to the main table and start whining - I wanna get in! please race me to 5 for 500! I'm gonna need some weight though. To my shock guy A without negotiating just straight up offers me 3 games on the wire in a race to 5 ( he already knew his student "beat" me ). Wow. What an idiot. ( I'm nowhere near pro speed but significantly better than both guy A and guy B. Unfortunately he only wanted to race for a 100 since he didn't know me. Fine. I wasn't looking for action, I hate gambling - just wanted to stop the bleeding. Guy B lets us race on his table, I easily beat guy A. Take my 100. Guy A says next time we play without handicap. I go sure. Then the idiot guy B just can't wait to get back to the table. He wants to keep playing guy A!! What an idiot. That was his chance to say he's tired. Did you just not witness a guy on a totally different level than you? What are you doing. go home. ( I didn't say that ). I went home. They kept playing. I'm guessing guy B ended up dropping a few thousand.

The fact that you even started this thread speaks highly to your own self serving ego, did you really expect others to see this situation though your ego eyes?

realkingcobra
07-17-2016, 10:01 AM
So last night this room's regular, guy A, who can sort of play a little bit is playing this guy B for $50 a game. Guy B is down $650 already when I get there. This is really late at night. The room is packed. Guy B can't play. He's spinning the ball here and there but struggling with simple long shots. Guy B is trying so hard and keeps saying he's gonna win his money back, keeps trying. It was really hard to watch for some reason. Totally different speeds. Guy B definitely wasn't hustling, that was his actual speed. They were playing without a handicap - guy B had zero chance but didn't realize it. Finally I decided to step in and stop the bleeding. ( I thought guy B's ego just didn't know how to throw in the towel. I felt really bad for the guy ).

Guy A had his student there hanging out. So I dragged the student to another table and raced him to 2. I "lost" both games. Then I go back to the main table and start whining - I wanna get in! please race me to 5 for 500! I'm gonna need some weight though. To my shock guy A without negotiating just straight up offers me 3 games on the wire in a race to 5 ( he already knew his student "beat" me ). Wow. What an idiot. ( I'm nowhere near pro speed but significantly better than both guy A and guy B. Unfortunately he only wanted to race for a 100 since he didn't know me. Fine. I wasn't looking for action, I hate gambling - just wanted to stop the bleeding. Guy B lets us race on his table, I easily beat guy A. Take my 100. Guy A says next time we play without handicap. I go sure. Then the idiot guy B just can't wait to get back to the table. He wants to keep playing guy A!! What an idiot. That was his chance to say he's tired. Did you just not witness a guy on a totally different level than you? What are you doing. go home. ( I didn't say that ). I went home. They kept playing. I'm guessing guy B ended up dropping a few thousand.

If I were player A, I'd have taken a break from playing the first second I saw you head to the bathroom where we'd have had a conversation, me doing the talking...and you feeling what I was talking about!

Mustardeer
07-17-2016, 12:35 PM
Nobody is breaking my nose. I'm not gonna get into it but trust me on that.

Guy A was a good loser. Tried to befriend me after. There was no problem. It was awkward for a sec when he realized that he shouldn't have given me games on the wire but he paid me right away. There was no problem. He asked about my break technique later.

It wasn't cool of me dumping thanks for pointing it out. Good reminder. I've been hanging out with this drunk / pro hustler for a few weeks and it rubbed off. Not gonna hang out with him anymore ( he makes over 5K / month just hustling, nothing wrong with that but not my thing. I still don't know his actual speed but I'm sure he'd lose to any pro. Very strong player though. This guy got rid of his predator Z logo on his sneaky pete shaft. No idea how he did it but his custom looks like a $5 dollar cue. I'm guessing he painted over it )...

There were about 20 kids ( thuggish looking ones ) playing for big money that night two tables down. They didn't know how to play. I pointed out all the cash on that table to guy A after taking his money he was like "nah, they are too loud". So everyone in that room was a regular I think.

Guy A has deep pockets that hundred was nothing to him you could tell. If I really wanted to hustle him I'd take him for a lot more, I could have kept it close, I didn't have to show my speed but I did bc I wasn't trying to hustle was just trying to stop the bleeding. I lost a tournament that night so showed up to a random dirty, sort of hidden pool hall trying to practice the shot I missed. ( I don't have a table ). Was expecting an empty room...

---
I don't mind taking a little from a winner. Taking money from someone who is losing big is different. ( Maybe that was his rent money? Who knows ).

Also not claiming to be right, I'm no angel. I've never really hustled before and was just shocked at how fast guy A gave me games on the wire ( I rolled in with a 2x4 case! ). There's no way I'm giving a stranger games on the wire that easily. I thought that was idiotic. Also thought it was idiotic for guy B to donate so much cash in one night.

Anyway, was totally not expecting people to read my original post, was just sharing a story; next time that is going into my journal you guys are tough crowd :)

skins
07-17-2016, 01:08 PM
Nobody is breaking my nose. I'm not gonna get into it but trust me on that.

Guy A was a good loser. Tried to befriend me after. There was no problem. It was awkward for a sec when he realized that he shouldn't have given me games on the wire but he paid me right away. There was no problem. He asked about my break technique later.

It wasn't cool of me dumping thanks for pointing it out. Good reminder. I've been hanging out with this drunk / pro hustler for a few weeks and it rubbed off. Not gonna hang out with him anymore ( he makes over 5K / month just hustling, nothing wrong with that but not my thing. I still don't know his actual speed but I'm sure he'd lose to any pro. Very strong player though. This guy got rid of his predator Z logo on his sneaky pete shaft. No idea how he did it but his custom looks like a $5 dollar cue. I'm guessing he painted over it )...

There were about 20 kids ( thuggish looking ones ) playing for big money that night two tables down. They didn't know how to play. I pointed out all the cash on that table to guy A after taking his money he was like "nah, they are too loud". So everyone in that room was a regular I think.

Guy A has deep pockets that hundred was nothing to him you could tell. If I really wanted to hustle him I'd take him for a lot more, I could have kept it close, I didn't have to show my speed but I did bc I wasn't trying to hustle was just trying to stop the bleeding. I lost a tournament that night so showed up to a random dirty, sort of hidden pool hall trying to practice the shot I missed. ( I don't have a table ). Was expecting an empty room...

---
I don't mind taking a little from a winner. Taking money from someone who is losing big is different. ( Maybe that was his rent money? Who knows ).

Also not claiming to be right, I'm no angel. I've never really hustled before and was just shocked at how fast guy A gave me games on the wire ( I rolled in with a 2x4 case! ). There's no way I'm giving a stranger games on the wire that easily. I thought that was idiotic. Also thought it was idiotic for guy B to donate so much cash in one night.

Anyway, was totally not expecting people to read my original post, was just sharing a story; next time that is going into my journal you guys are tough crowd :)

First off, dont make statements you couldn't possibly be able to control. Your not invincible. THAT you can trust me about.

Second, there isnt a guy I've ever met who consistently makes over 5k a month over a long time that MOST in the area haven't heard of. Anyone making that kind of score would be "found out" relatively quickly and their easy action dwindle quickly... I mean I could be wrong but I'd guess you're embellishing just a little here or are just "pumping" your story..

Third, you can keep explaining but like others have said, you were in the wrong to even think of getting involved...

Maybe you've learned something from this whole ordeal..

realkingcobra
07-17-2016, 01:17 PM
Nobody is breaking my nose. I'm not gonna get into it but trust me on that.

Guy A was a good loser. Tried to befriend me after. There was no problem. It was awkward for a sec when he realized that he shouldn't have given me games on the wire but he paid me right away. There was no problem. He asked about my break technique later.

It wasn't cool of me dumping thanks for pointing it out. Good reminder. I've been hanging out with this drunk / pro hustler for a few weeks and it rubbed off. Not gonna hang out with him anymore ( he makes over 5K / month just hustling, nothing wrong with that but not my thing. I still don't know his actual speed but I'm sure he'd lose to any pro. Very strong player though. This guy got rid of his predator Z logo on his sneaky pete shaft. No idea how he did it but his custom looks like a $5 dollar cue. I'm guessing he painted over it )...

There were about 20 kids ( thuggish looking ones ) playing for big money that night two tables down. They didn't know how to play. I pointed out all the cash on that table to guy A after taking his money he was like "nah, they are too loud". So everyone in that room was a regular I think.

Guy A has deep pockets that hundred was nothing to him you could tell. If I really wanted to hustle him I'd take him for a lot more, I could have kept it close, I didn't have to show my speed but I did bc I wasn't trying to hustle was just trying to stop the bleeding. I lost a tournament that night so showed up to a random dirty, sort of hidden pool hall trying to practice the shot I missed. ( I don't have a table ). Was expecting an empty room...

---
I don't mind taking a little from a winner. Taking money from someone who is losing big is different. ( Maybe that was his rent money? Who knows ).

Also not claiming to be right, I'm no angel. I've never really hustled before and was just shocked at how fast guy A gave me games on the wire ( I rolled in with a 2x4 case! ). There's no way I'm giving a stranger games on the wire that easily. I thought that was idiotic. Also thought it was idiotic for guy B to donate so much cash in one night.

Anyway, was totally not expecting people to read my original post, was just sharing a story; next time that is going into my journal you guys are tough crowd :)
Uptown's got its hustlers, Bowerys got its bums, 42ND st's got big Jim Walker he a pool shoot'n son of a gun.......

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 01:39 PM
Anyway, was totally not expecting people to read my original post, was just sharing a story; next time that is going into my journal you guys are tough crowd :)

Huh? Ya post up on a forum but no one is gonna read it??????

PoolBum
07-17-2016, 01:55 PM
If you saw a man putting in $50 chips in Vegas every 5 min ( slut machine )...

Stay away from the slut machines, they are nothing but bad news.

caff3in3
07-17-2016, 02:17 PM
Stay away from the slut machines, they are nothing but bad news.
What comes out when you put $50 in a slut machine?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

RiverCity
07-17-2016, 02:22 PM
What comes out when you put $50 in a slut machine?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Pus. :thumbup:

pfduser
07-17-2016, 02:22 PM
Don't knock action and don't get in other people's action is the first couple of rules you should have learned in a "real" poolroom.

PoolBum
07-17-2016, 02:23 PM
What comes out when you put $50 in a slut machine?


I don't think I want to know.

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 03:14 PM
Don't knock action and don't get in other people's action is the first couple of rules you should have learned in a "real" poolroom.

Speak only when spoken to - that is the lesson of the day for the op, but maybe not even then lol ☺

I'll add something since the OP doesn't seem to have a clue so this is to help him out - the ONLY time this is acceptable is if it's a partner of yours or a VERY VERY good friend and even then probably even then before it starts. I'm not trying to be a dock but doing this very well could put you in a VERY bad spot that's all.

Mustardeer
07-17-2016, 03:25 PM
Dont know for a fact he makes 5k but he's a guy who barely speaks English and always has a few thousand ( in cash ) in his pocket so I believe him. I did see the money. I think his secret is playing for little money but every single day. He mostly plays "his people" ( I'm guessing Mexicans maybe he's Salvadorian no idea ). He starts with $5 game and dumps a few then drunks want him to stay and keep playing. Eventually $5 games turn into $20 games and he walks out with 200-300. ( 200 x 30 days = 6k do the math ). He goes to a different spot every night and stays out of tourneys. He said people are too good at tourneys. Too much work for not enough money.

I've been playing in my city a long time I know all the bars and rooms. I've never heard of most places he shoots at so very possible for him to stay unknown I'm in a huge city.

Not to sound racist but if you ask a random white guy to play for money 9 out of 10 times they'll say no. If you ask a Mexican 9 out of 10 times they'll say yes. Don't know why it's just the way it is. So I believe him.

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 03:32 PM
Dont know for a fact he makes 5k but he's a guy who barely speaks English and always has a few thousand ( in cash ) in his pocket so I believe him. I did see the money. I think his secret is playing for little money but every single day. He mostly plays "his people" ( I'm guessing Mexicans maybe he's Salvadorian no idea ). He starts with $5 game and dumps a few then drunks want him to stay and keep playing. Eventually $5 games turn into $20 games and he walks out with 200-300. ( 200 x 30 days = 6k do the math ). He goes to a different spot every night and stays out of tourneys. He said people are too good at tourneys. Too much work for not enough money.

I've been playing in my city a long time I know all the bars and rooms. I've never heard of most places he shoots at so very possible for him to stay unknown I'm in a huge city.

Not to sound racist but if you ask a random white guy to play for money 9 out of 10 times they'll say no. If you ask a Mexican 9 out of 10 times they'll say yes. Don't know why it's just the way it is. So I believe him.

Maybe I shouldn't say this this but...... u say mex or sal, OK fine can we say maybe 13 or ms???? The oldest thing in the book is someone that comes up with money says " I won it gambling ". I have no idea nor could care less. You sir come across as a little dense - no offense but if you are being serious I'd try to smarting up a little cause its a jungle out there lol.

Question, when u and this buddy of yours go anywhere do you always drive?

Johnny Rosato
07-17-2016, 03:46 PM
Nobody is breaking my nose. I'm not gonna get into it but trust me on that.

Guy A was a good loser. Tried to befriend me after. There was no problem. It was awkward for a sec when he realized that he shouldn't have given me games on the wire but he paid me right away. There was no problem. He asked about my break technique later.

It wasn't cool of me dumping thanks for pointing it out. Good reminder. I've been hanging out with this drunk / pro hustler for a few weeks and it rubbed off. Not gonna hang out with him anymore ( he makes over 5K / month just hustling, nothing wrong with that but not my thing. I still don't know his actual speed but I'm sure he'd lose to any pro. Very strong player though. This guy got rid of his predator Z logo on his sneaky pete shaft. No idea how he did it but his custom looks like a $5 dollar cue. I'm guessing he painted over it )...

There were about 20 kids ( thuggish looking ones ) playing for big money that night two tables down. They didn't know how to play. I pointed out all the cash on that table to guy A after taking his money he was like "nah, they are too loud". So everyone in that room was a regular I think.

Guy A has deep pockets that hundred was nothing to him you could tell. If I really wanted to hustle him I'd take him for a lot more, I could have kept it close, I didn't have to show my speed but I did bc I wasn't trying to hustle was just trying to stop the bleeding. I lost a tournament that night so showed up to a random dirty, sort of hidden pool hall trying to practice the shot I missed. ( I don't have a table ). Was expecting an empty room...

---
I don't mind taking a little from a winner. Taking money from someone who is losing big is different. ( Maybe that was his rent money? Who knows ).

Also not claiming to be right, I'm no angel. I've never really hustled before and was just shocked at how fast guy A gave me games on the wire ( I rolled in with a 2x4 case! ). There's no way I'm giving a stranger games on the wire that easily. I thought that was idiotic. Also thought it was idiotic for guy B to donate so much cash in one night.

Anyway, was totally not expecting people to read my original post, was just sharing a story; next time that is going into my journal you guys are tough crowd :)
Trust you ??? LOL

skins
07-17-2016, 04:49 PM
Dont know for a fact he makes 5k but he's a guy who barely speaks English and always has a few thousand ( in cash ) in his pocket so I believe him. I did see the money. I think his secret is playing for little money but every single day. He mostly plays "his people" ( I'm guessing Mexicans maybe he's Salvadorian no idea ). He starts with $5 game and dumps a few then drunks want him to stay and keep playing. Eventually $5 games turn into $20 games and he walks out with 200-300. ( 200 x 30 days = 6k do the math ). He goes to a different spot every night and stays out of tourneys. He said people are too good at tourneys. Too much work for not enough money.

I've been playing in my city a long time I know all the bars and rooms. I've never heard of most places he shoots at so very possible for him to stay unknown I'm in a huge city.

Not to sound racist but if you ask a random white guy to play for money 9 out of 10 times they'll say no. If you ask a Mexican 9 out of 10 times they'll say yes. Don't know why it's just the way it is. So I believe him.

First you say your definitive that he makes 5k a month. THEN, You say you dont know for sure. THEN you try and come up with some mathematical defense that though has finite truth most likely just another way to cover, as Ive said prior, an embelished "story".... If your story WERE true, he'd of been "found out" long ago... The only ones Ive ever seen make consistent money are road players, who keep moving, and Ive been around so to speak.. I'm in just as "huge" city as you and it dont happen here...

BmoreMoney
07-17-2016, 05:04 PM
First you say your definitive that he makes 5k a month. THEN, You say you dont know for sure. THEN you try and come up with some mathematical defense that though has finite truth most likely just another way to cover, as Ive said prior, an embelished "story".... If your story WERE true, he'd of been "found out" long ago... The only ones Ive ever seen make consistent money are road players, who keep moving, and Ive been around so to speak.. I'm in just as "huge" city as you and it dont happen here...

Skins, I think we already knows what's up. Funny, some times you and I don't see eye to eye but this time we do.

If op's statement was true I stand by my aerie post as to what's up.

Charlie Hustle
07-17-2016, 07:13 PM
Why would you, nobody is being deceived or taken advantage of. Now if you saw him stash an ace up his sleeve that might be a different story, or maybe if he was a long time great player whose first words when he sat down at the table were "what are the rules again and is it the full house or the straight that is the better hand I never can remember".

This. He said what I was going to.

noMoreSchon
07-17-2016, 10:32 PM
Thank you for your post, I have found it most empathetic Stop the bleeding, stay out

of the game, mind your business, all very low routes of humanity. I applaud you good sir,

even if you might have had your jaw broken you did what you thought right, and even

have a great story and maybe even a better lesson to share with the people in your life.

For all we know player B asked to play, that has never happened to any of us? Walk into

a room knocking around and some schmuck comes sniffin around. Has to me, never at

$50 a game but I am unlucky like that. You did not knock the action btw, and he never

had to play you, I have no idea why he would play for $100 when the guy is bleeding

$50's

Mustardeer
07-18-2016, 03:52 AM
Speak only when spoken to - that is the lesson of the day for the op
lol get the hell outta here

-------------

The only lesson I learned today is to not share any more stories on a forum. It's always either "you're wrong" or "your story is bs". Never "Thanks for sharing buddy".

Again, it was not an intense/serious environment. The only one who was hyper focused was guy B ( the one taking the beating ). Nobody talked to him. Guy A looked like he was bored out of his mind, he was chatting with regulars between shots away from the table and was totally approachable. Me saying hello and asking to get in was not a big deal. Also the owner was there and he ok'd our race with a nod.

I have a big mouth but only once it has almost gotten me in big trouble. A year ago I racked the balls on a valley seven footer ( at a super divey bar I used to frequent ) and left the table to sing karaoke. When I got back a man who looked like a gang banger was about to break my rack. I stopped him. Five of his buddies came over. I was respectful but stood my ground and was like I'll let you play but you owe me a buck, or wait your turn. Long story short they ****ed with me for a bit then gave me the table back. They didn't touch me. Then stood around the table and watched me shoot. I thought there was a tiny chance they were gonna jump me outside, it was hard to tell. I didn't shoot well but they were really impressed with my pool game - enough to leave me alone. When they left locals told me they were actual gangsters from a known local gang and I could have easily gotten shot for a buck. I had no idea, I thought they just dressed like thugs. Lesson learned. Someone on here: "this story is BS too" in 3, 2, 1..

realkingcobra
07-18-2016, 04:03 AM
lol get the hell outta here

-------------

The only lesson I learned today is to not share any more stories on a forum. It's always either "you're wrong" or "your story is bs". Never "Thanks for sharing buddy".

Again, it was not an intense/serious environment. The only one who was hyper focused was guy B ( the one taking the beating ). Nobody talked to him. Guy A looked like he was bored out of his mind, he was chatting with regulars between shots away from the table and was totally approachable. Me saying hello and asking to get in was not a big deal. Also the owner was there and he ok'd our race with a nod.

I have a big mouth but only once it has almost gotten me in big trouble. A year ago I racked the balls on a valley seven footer ( at a super divey bar I used to frequent ) and left the table to sing karaoke. When I got back a man who looked like a gang banger was about to break my rack. I stopped him. Five of his buddies came over. I was respectful but stood my ground and was like I'll let you play but you owe me a buck, or wait your turn. Long story short they ****ed with me for a bit then gave me the table back. They didn't touch me. Then stood around the table and watched me shoot. I thought there was a tiny chance they were gonna jump me outside, it was hard to tell. I didn't shoot well but they were really impressed with my pool game - enough to leave me alone. When they left locals told me they were actual gangsters from a known local gang and I could have easily gotten shot for a buck. I had no idea, I thought they just dressed like thugs. Lesson learned. Someone on here: "this story is BS too" in 3, 2, 1..

In my world, you'd have lost the table and your dollar for choosing to go sing karaoke instead of staying at the pool table....people like you have no respect for others wanting to play pool while you're off playing games!!!

erhino41
07-18-2016, 04:59 AM
I'm as empathetic and compassionate a person as you will probably meet, you had zero reason to get involved. Nobody was stealing from a blind man. You didn't and probably couldn't have stopped the bleeding, nor should you have. You made it worse. Player b now has seen player a lose, that shows him it can be done and it drives his ego more. None wants to lose to a loser, especially after watching a hundred of his money walk out the door Good job!

I think you'd make a pretty good "hustler". No fear of what you should fear and the ability to smell the blood in the water. You weren't really trying to save anyone, you just wanted some ooh the action. If player b was really bring robbed, you were involved, you left with his money. Think about that.

Johnny Rosato
07-18-2016, 07:31 AM
In my world, you'd have lost the table and your dollar for choosing to go sing karaoke instead of staying at the pool table....people like you have no respect for others wanting to play pool while you're off playing games!!!
Racked the balls then left to sing karaoke,dang it boy,you're for real aren't you?

ipoppa33
07-18-2016, 08:12 AM
Racked the balls then left to sing karaoke,dang it boy,you're for real aren't you?

Post of the year!!

KissedOut
07-18-2016, 08:23 AM
Nobody is breaking my nose. I'm not gonna get into it but trust me on that.

Guy A was a good loser. Tried to befriend me after. There was no problem. It was awkward for a sec when he realized that he shouldn't have given me games on the wire but he paid me right away. There was no problem. He asked about my break technique later.

It wasn't cool of me dumping thanks for pointing it out. Good reminder. I've been hanging out with this drunk / pro hustler for a few weeks and it rubbed off. Not gonna hang out with him anymore ( he makes over 5K / month just hustling, nothing wrong with that but not my thing. I still don't know his actual speed but I'm sure he'd lose to any pro. Very strong player though. This guy got rid of his predator Z logo on his sneaky pete shaft. No idea how he did it but his custom looks like a $5 dollar cue. I'm guessing he painted over it )...

There were about 20 kids ( thuggish looking ones ) playing for big money that night two tables down. They didn't know how to play. I pointed out all the cash on that table to guy A after taking his money he was like "nah, they are too loud". So everyone in that room was a regular I think.

Guy A has deep pockets that hundred was nothing to him you could tell. If I really wanted to hustle him I'd take him for a lot more, I could have kept it close, I didn't have to show my speed but I did bc I wasn't trying to hustle was just trying to stop the bleeding. I lost a tournament that night so showed up to a random dirty, sort of hidden pool hall trying to practice the shot I missed. ( I don't have a table ). Was expecting an empty room...

---
I don't mind taking a little from a winner. Taking money from someone who is losing big is different. ( Maybe that was his rent money? Who knows ).

Also not claiming to be right, I'm no angel. I've never really hustled before and was just shocked at how fast guy A gave me games on the wire ( I rolled in with a 2x4 case! ). There's no way I'm giving a stranger games on the wire that easily. I thought that was idiotic. Also thought it was idiotic for guy B to donate so much cash in one night.

Anyway, was totally not expecting people to read my original post, was just sharing a story; next time that is going into my journal you guys are tough crowd :)

So basically, on your own description, you have no ethics, character or honesty. Yet you manage to rationalize things to yourself so you always come out the good guy.

There was an old saying: You Cant Touch Pitch Without Becoming Defiled. And you roll in pitch. Frankly your attitude epitomizes everything about why pool sucks and will never go mainstream.

But it is nice that you discriminate among those you steal from.

KissedOut
07-18-2016, 08:28 AM
lol get the hell outta here

-------------

The only lesson I learned today is to not share any more stories on a forum. It's always either "you're wrong" or "your story is bs". Never "Thanks for sharing buddy".



Don't tell stories that portray yourself as a cheater, a thief, and a buttinski and you will probably get a better reaction. This wound was entirely self-inflicted, starting with the events of the story.

TATE
07-18-2016, 08:30 AM
Player B probably read on AZ Billiards that you have to gamble to get better.

justadub
07-18-2016, 08:40 AM
Player B probably read on AZ Billiards that you have to gamble to get better.

I wonder how that's working out for him.....

pt109
07-18-2016, 08:50 AM
The OP, Mustardeer, stuck his nose into someone's action.....
...and managed to make a game for himself....with a big edge.

I wonder how he would feel if someone stuck their nose in THAT game.....

Jimbojim
07-18-2016, 08:52 AM
Well I think I can understand why OP did what he did but if player B was my friend and I would have arrived at the pool hall before they matched up, I would have told him he was out of his league otherwise its none of my business. Player B is old enough to know what to do with his money.

But you know what, I'll be the bad guy this time around and dare to say that Player A should only match up with players of his caliber in the first place....but a pool player will play his blind uncle for a tenner if he could.

erhino41
07-18-2016, 09:26 AM
We are all trying to help you out mustardeer, because it seems you need it. I'm not sure you really understand how this situation could have played out. I know you say nobody is going to break your nose, and I'll give you the benefit, but several people can break more than your nose. You were in a bar in a big city where you were the only unknown person, there was no one to have your back. You said the owner or manager okayed the game you got, that means he has money involved. So you are not only knocking player a's action, you were knocking his as well. If player b left you may have found yourself in a world of s**t. Not only did you hustle a hundred on knowingly false pretenses, you would have taken possibly several hundred more out of their pockets. In a big city, late at night bad people do very bad things for that type of money. I know you think everything was cool, but it was pretty close to not cool at all.

alstl
07-18-2016, 09:38 AM
This is a great movie scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hEm6LiU3rw

Why does hustling work? It works because the guy getting hustled isn't looking for a fair game either. He is looking for an advantage.

pt109
07-18-2016, 09:55 AM
This is a great movie scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hEm6LiU3rw

Why does hustling work? It works because the guy getting hustled isn't looking for a fair game either. He is looking for an advantage.

Exactly, Al....I've seen a lot of crocodile tears around action....
....never allowed myself that luxury....you can't lose a dime if you're not trying to win.

jasonlaus
07-18-2016, 10:15 AM
We are all trying to help you out mustardeer, because it seems you need it. I'm not sure you really understand how this situation could have played out. I know you say nobody is going to break your nose, and I'll give you the benefit, but several people can break more than your nose. You were in a bar in a big city where you were the only unknown person, there was no one to have your back. You said the owner or manager okayed the game you got, that means he has money involved. So you are not only knocking player a's action, you were knocking his as well. If player b left you may have found yourself in a world of s**t. Not only did you hustle a hundred on knowingly false pretenses, you would have taken possibly several hundred more out of their pockets. In a big city, late at night bad people do very bad things for that type of money. I know you think everything was cool, but it was pretty close to not cool at all.

Lol. He also said the owner/counter man nodded that the game was ok.....WTF? How many movies have you watched? I have NEVER ONCE asked or got a "nod" that a game was ok and have never heard of such bs
Jason

realkingcobra
07-18-2016, 10:20 AM
Racked the balls then left to sing karaoke,dang it boy,you're for real aren't you?

Damn straight I am!

Get_A_Grip
07-18-2016, 10:28 AM
When I first witnessed a regular fleecing like this, where the manager of the room would play a young guy regularly and stall just enough to keep winning, I felt a little sorry for the kid.

But then the manager was playing an older guy 1-pocket, regularly a few times a week and kept beating him, I asked the manager when he was alone why the guy kept playing. Then he told me that he offered the guy a spot, but because the guy thought he was a 1-pocket expert or something, he swore at him and felt insulted that he would even offer him a spot. So they kept playing even.

That is when realized that what may look like a really sad situation, may actually be the other players fault all along. Plus, some guys somehow feel good donating to a great player, they just like being able to say that they played "such-and-such" for money. So basically, I just keep my nose out of other people's games.

erhino41
07-18-2016, 11:47 AM
Lol. He also said the owner/counter man nodded that the game was ok.....WTF? How many movies have you watched? I have NEVER ONCE asked or got a "nod" that a game was ok and have never heard of such bs
Jason

I was offering advice on the off chance the story is true, if so the op needs to get a clue fast.

There is alot to question though.

Mustardeer
07-18-2016, 02:05 PM
Lol. He also said the owner/counter man nodded that the game was ok.....WTF?

I didn't ask for no permission. Guy A was asking the owner something, I'm guessing permission to play me or maybe to pause guy B's table time. Owner ok'd it with a nod. No idea what movie you're talking about.


Racked the balls then left to sing karaoke,dang it boy,you're for real aren't you?

I played all over back then to get better - anybody on any table. House rules at this dive were if your song was up you left your table ( in the middle of the shot ), opponent went outside to smoke or grabbed a drink - I was not breaking house rules. That night though was super slow so it was especially okay for me to do a song between games. The thugs probably rolled in during my song - it was a really slow night.

GideonF
07-18-2016, 02:06 PM
Don't tell stories that portray yourself as a cheater, a thief, and a buttinski and you will probably get a better reaction. This wound was entirely self-inflicted, starting with the events of the story.

I get the "buttinski" comment, but the general tenor of the comments against the OP suggest that many don't see any problem with lying and cheating (in the sense used to describe what the OP said he did) as long as it is in a gambling situation. In other words, he "hustled" - and that's considered okay and his action should not be knocked.

Mustardeer
07-18-2016, 02:40 PM
I get the "buttinski" comment, but the general tenor of the comments against the OP suggest that many don't see any problem with lying and cheating (in the sense used to describe what the OP said he did) as long as it is in a gambling situation. In other words, he "hustled" - and that's considered okay and his action should not be knocked.
Thank you sir

deanoc
07-18-2016, 04:38 PM
when i saw 2 idiots witnessed in pool hall last night

I was thinking it must have been a slow night

realkingcobra
07-18-2016, 04:49 PM
I didn't ask for no permission. Guy A was asking the owner something, I'm guessing permission to play me or maybe to pause guy B's table time. Owner ok'd it with a nod. No idea what movie you're talking about.




I played all over back then to get better - anybody on any table. House rules at this dive were if your song was up you left your table ( in the middle of the shot ), opponent went outside to smoke or grabbed a drink - I was not breaking house rules. That night though was super slow so it was especially okay for me to do a song between games. The thugs probably rolled in during my song - it was a really slow night.

Right....and there just happened to be no one at the table waiting on you to finish your song, so when the "THUGS" walked in, they saw an empty table with no one around to tell them you were in the middle of a game, and as soon as you finished singing to the crowd of people in the bar, you would be right back to play....... right?

book collector
07-18-2016, 08:44 PM
I would have been all right with this post if the title was ," I saw an opportunity to steal 100 dollars last night. Then made sure I got plenty of weight, so I couldn't dog it."
Everything else is ridiculous.
You're the good guy in the story?

Mustardeer
07-18-2016, 09:15 PM
You're the good guy in the story?

Jesus. No. It's irrelevant if I'm good or bad. The entire point I was trying to make with the original post: couldn't believe a guy would drop that many games at $50 each and want to keep going. My speed forced guy A to play better and guy B could see it with his own eyes. Why in the world would he want to keep going after our race - no idea. Also when "you're in it", especially if you're a weak player it's hard to see if you have a chance or not so I'm not blaming him. I knew he had no chance and it made it painful to watch. Thought the story was worth sharing, didn't come here to get judged.

Also was shocked that guy B actually gave me games on the wire that easily. I've never really hustled anyone before and was really surprised how easy it was to ask for weight and get it ( I was really expecting to play him even ) - just stroke his ego a little bit and when he uses outside english to go 2 cushions to get shape just say "wow" and voila.

GideonF
07-18-2016, 10:17 PM
Also was shocked that guy B actually gave me games on the wire that easily. I've never really hustled anyone before and was really surprised how easy it was to ask for weight and get it ( I was really expecting to play him even ) - just stroke his ego a little bit and when he uses outside english to go 2 cushions to get shape just say "wow" and voila.


Any chance guy B gave you weight and lost in order to prove to guy A that he can be beaten and cement the hook in him?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Henry W
07-18-2016, 10:26 PM
We are gonna just have to disagree, same old song and dance that comes up frequently and clearly there are two entrenched sides.Couple things we all should agree on, most times if you go in and kill someone's action like that you are gonna have a problem on you're hands.Could've been people betting on the rail. As I've said before, being able to gauge speed is more important than actually how you play. Dude was paying his dues on his way to getting better - most of us have. Lastly, pool needs money infused from somewhere otherwise what are we gonna have left? Money has to come from somewhere and it sure ain't like it was back in the day.Everyone's dead, in jail, or whatever but it just isn't there like it used to be.

It was some years ago and I lost around $500 at $5 and $10 a game a bet that would be close to $50 a game today. The last thing I wanted was to have someone come and try and save me. I learned so much from that experience and if someone would have attempted to deprive me of that experience I would have told them to mind their own business I am going to beat this guy. The best policy may be to mind your own business.

couldnthinkof01
07-18-2016, 10:33 PM
I like your logic Henry.

Mustardeer
07-18-2016, 10:35 PM
Any chance guy B gave you weight and lost in order to prove to guy A that he can be beaten and cement the hook in him?
No. Guy B wasn't hiding his speed like I mentioned before.

THE MONTREALER
07-18-2016, 10:44 PM
W.C Fields said there is a sucker born every minute

One day you are the sucker the next day you are the
favourite

In life you win some and you lose some thats life

KissedOut
07-19-2016, 08:44 AM
I get the "buttinski" comment, but the general tenor of the comments against the OP suggest that many don't see any problem with lying and cheating (in the sense used to describe what the OP said he did) as long as it is in a gambling situation. In other words, he "hustled" - and that's considered okay and his action should not be knocked.

Not to me or any person with a shred of decency. The OP was a thief,pure and simple. With a huge streak of self-righteously justifying himself for his actions.

barrymuch90
07-19-2016, 10:56 AM
Over the years my game has improved and I've lost to certain people then stayed away from them and practiced and got stronger and eventually played them again and destroyed them. I have a few examples I can remember off the top of my head. If you saw us play the first time I would appear to be In a bad game, if you saw us play the second time my opponent would be In the bad game. Would it be fair for you to not know any history or past results and come up to my opponent and inform him he has no chance to win and make him pull up? To me one instant benefit of getting better is going back to play guys that used to whip up on me after months or years of practice and gaining experience and playing them the same game only to reverse the outcome and destroy them. In my experience they usually lose less money then they won because they can tell right away I'm a different player. But again I would be very annoyed if I was in this situation and some random person for no reason came up and stopped the game. It's never happened to me but I assure u had I been the guy who improved and came back to win only to get knocked my opportunity I'd be more than mad. Not saying this is the way the ops story actually went but for u to step into two grown men's game for no reason and with no knowledge of what's going on is very foolish and just innapropriate.

Mustardeer
07-19-2016, 11:59 AM
Over the years my game has improved and I've lost to certain people then stayed away from them and practiced and got stronger and eventually played them again and destroyed them. I have a few examples I can remember off the top of my head. If you saw us play the first time I would appear to be In a bad game, if you saw us play the second time my opponent would be In the bad game. Would it be fair for you to not know any history or past results and come up to my opponent and inform him he has no chance to win and make him pull up? To me one instant benefit of getting better is going back to play guys that used to whip up on me after months or years of practice and gaining experience and playing them the same game only to reverse the outcome and destroy them. In my experience they usually lose less money then they won because they can tell right away I'm a different player. But again I would be very annoyed if I was in this situation and some random person for no reason came up and stopped the game. It's never happened to me but I assure u had I been the guy who improved and came back to win only to get knocked my opportunity I'd be more than mad. Not saying this is the way the ops story actually went but for u to step into two grown men's game for no reason and with no knowledge of what's going on is very foolish and just inappropriate.

What are you talking about. I didn't "stop" anybody. Both are grown men. Guy A could have said "No". We both asked guy B if it was cool for us to squeeze in a quick race - he had a chance to say "No". The owner was there and could have said "No". I didn't force anybody into anything. If guy A used to lose to B and was now getting his money back ( seriously doubt that was the case ) he should have asked me to come back another night, it's that simple. All I did was give guy B AN OPPORTUNITY to quit if he wanted to. Turns out he didn't want to. To me that was idiotic hence the title but it's his money he can do whatever he wants. In other news my break cue got stolen last night ( right before my trip to Vegas :/ ) so I'm not in the best of moods, apologies if I'm a little "dense" right now.

Also guy A could have easily been hiding his true speed while still beating guy B so I could have easily lost. My eyes were telling me it wasn't risky but you never know. Plenty of people can destroy me on the pool table even with games on the wire, like I said I'm nowhere near pro speed; I don't break and run nearly often enough to be playing for big bucks.

jasonlaus
07-19-2016, 12:01 PM
Jesus. No. It's irrelevant if I'm good or bad. The entire point I was trying to make with the original post: couldn't believe a guy would drop that many games at $50 each and want to keep going. My speed forced guy A to play better and guy B could see it with his own eyes. Why in the world would he want to keep going after our race - no idea. Also when "you're in it", especially if you're a weak player it's hard to see if you have a chance or not so I'm not blaming him. I knew he had no chance and it made it painful to watch. Thought the story was worth sharing, didn't come here to get judged.

Also was shocked that guy B actually gave me games on the wire that easily. I've never really hustled anyone before and was really surprised how easy it was to ask for weight and get it ( I was really expecting to play him even ) - just stroke his ego a little bit and when he uses outside english to go 2 cushions to get shape just say "wow" and voila.


First you played guy A but now Guy B gave you games on the wire??? Quote below, and directly above. This story keeps getting stranger and stranger.


Guy A had his student there hanging out. So I dragged the student to another table and raced him to 2. I "lost" both games. Then I go back to the main table and start whining - I wanna get in! please race me to 5 for 500! I'm gonna need some weight though. To my shock guy A without negotiating just straight up offers me 3 games on the wire in a race to 5 ( he already knew his student "beat" me ). Wow. What an idiot. ( I'm nowhere near pro speed but significantly better than both guy A and guy B. Unfortunately he only wanted to race for a 100 since he didn't know me. Fine. I wasn't looking for action, I hate gambling - just wanted to stop the bleeding. Guy B lets us race on his table, I easily beat guy A. Take my 100. Guy A says next time we play without handicap. I go sure. Then the idiot guy B just can't wait to get back to the table. He wants to keep playing guy A!! What an idiot. That was his chance to say he's tired. Did you just not witness a guy on a totally different level than you? What are you doing. go home. ( I didn't say that ). I went home. They kept playing. I'm guessing guy B ended up dropping a few thousand.

BmoreMoney
07-19-2016, 12:37 PM
Sorry if I'm wrong but is anyone else's bs meter pegging? I thought it was extremely weird the way it was initially said to go down but know I'm really scratching my head.

BmoreMoney
07-19-2016, 12:40 PM
What are you talking about. I didn't "stop" anybody. Both are grown men. Guy A could have said "No". We both asked guy B if it was cool for us to squeeze in a quick race - he had a chance to say "No". The owner was there and could have said "No". I didn't force anybody into anything. If guy A used to lose to B and was now getting his money back ( seriously doubt that was the case ) he should have asked me to come back another night, it's that simple. All I did was give guy B AN OPPORTUNITY to quit if he wanted to. Turns out he didn't want to. To me that was idiotic hence the title but it's his money he can do whatever he wants. In other news my break cue got stolen last night ( right before my trip to Vegas :/ ) so I'm not in the best of moods, apologies if I'm a little "dense" right now.

Also guy A could have easily been hiding his true speed while still beating guy B so I could have easily lost. My eyes were telling me it wasn't risky but you never know. Plenty of people can destroy me on the pool table even with games on the wire, like I said I'm nowhere near pro speed; I don't break and run nearly often enough to be playing for big bucks.

What do you mean you gave him the opportunity to quit ? He could have quit at any point he wanted from after game 1 until game 100 or whatever it was.

" Breaking news " - guy a took your stick for knocking his action!

Johnny Rosato
07-19-2016, 01:18 PM
**********

Mustardeer
07-19-2016, 01:59 PM
No no no. I never played guy B. Meant opportunity for guy B to quit donating to guy A. They werent racing nor playing x ahead they were playing $50 a game. That break should have made him think.

Also meant guy A could have beat me - I wasnt stealing, I was very confident going in but anything can happen in a short race. He also could have been hiding his true speed so I could have lost.

barrymuch90
07-19-2016, 02:15 PM
Like I said I wasn't saying that ur situation was the same as the one I was describing but to me if I don't know the guys playing I'd never interfere for any reason and I simply gave just one reason as to why but there's a million others. I wasn't saying anything to u sorry if it appeared like that but to me I'm not gonna get into two peoples business especially if I don't know them. And like I said many times I've lost to guys having a bad day couldn't win a set then came back n beat their brains in n I know I sure wouldn't want someone interfering but anyway sorry to hear about ur break cue that sucks. But chances are u can get a good deal on one while in Vegas n good luck while ur out there who knows maybe u will win some money and get a brand new break cue. Just don't get In any good games chances are karma will set In n someone will step in n try to help ur opponent to save his money lollolol. Seriously have fun I wish I was going to vegas

couldnthinkof01
07-19-2016, 02:22 PM
When someone is losing their money, let em. The lesson is more valuable when your mom does not come in and tell you its a bad idea. How you do not understand this speaks volumes.

dabarbr
07-19-2016, 02:32 PM
Oh I see. Well you had to be there. It was really hard to watch. The guy losing was a grown man in his forties..

Be careful, they might have been working you!. You'll know when guy B come to you and wants to play with you giving up a bit of a handicap. We've all seen this.

jasonlaus
07-19-2016, 04:12 PM
Be careful, they might have been working you!. You'll know when guy B come to you and wants to play with you giving up a bit of a handicap. We've all seen this.

Now you're the one stopping action:nono:
:D

realkingcobra
07-19-2016, 05:45 PM
( I'm nowhere near pro speed but significantly better than both guy A and guy B.[/QUOTE]

Don't sound like the possibility of losing was in your opening statement.....you're now back peddling.

realkingcobra
07-19-2016, 05:47 PM
Also meant guy A could have beat me - I wasnt stealing, I was very confident going in but anything can happen in a short race.
Here's the back peddling.

BmoreMoney
07-19-2016, 05:53 PM
Here's the back peddling.

I've started thinking this post was just a metaphor or something like that to discuss or get a rise. None of it makes any sense to me, at least for anyone that's been in a pool hall for more than an hour.

Parable is the word I was looking for. Lol

Mustardeer
07-19-2016, 06:16 PM
Don't sound like the possibility of losing was in your opening statement.....you're now back peddling.
Nobody is back peddling. Meant if player A was actually the speed I saw with my eyes he had no chance of beating me ( which turned out to be the case ). BUT he could have been showing just enough speed to beat far weaker guy B but was in fact a very strong player. That turned out to not be the case but I could have been stuck in a bad game so I was taking a chance, that's what I meant by that.

Be careful, they might have been working you!. You'll know when guy B come to you and wants to play with you giving up a bit of a handicap. We've all seen this.
Thanks. I seriously doubt it though. If guy B is actually a strong player who was hiding his speed he deserves an Oscar. Even if he's a lefty who was playing with his right that night, I've seen that before.

Seriously have fun I wish I was going to vegas
Thanks bud!

When someone is losing their money, let em. The lesson is more valuable when your mom does not come in and tell you its a bad idea. How you do not understand this speaks volumes.
I agree when we're talking $10/game. But $50 a game going all night? Nobody needs a lesson like that. That's gotta hurt. And this is coming from someone who has money.

BmoreMoney
07-19-2016, 06:25 PM
Nobody is back peddling. Meant if player A was actually the speed I saw with my eyes he had no chance of beating me ( which turned out to be the case ). BUT he could have been showing just enough speed to beat far weaker guy B but was in fact a very strong player. That turned out to not be the case but I could have been stuck in a bad game so I was taking a chance, that's what I meant by that.


Thanks. I seriously doubt it though. If guy B is actually a strong player who was hiding his speed he deserves an Oscar. Even if he's a lefty who was playing with his right that night, I've seen that


I agree when we're talking $10/game. But $50 a game going all night? Nobody needs a lesson like that. That's gotta hurt. And this is coming from someone who has money.

I'm very happy you have money. 50 a game isn't sheet to anyone. If you think so, u DO NOT HAVE " MONEY ". You are and we're wrong no matter how yards look at it. Spin, rationalize, or whatever you like, you can be sure of one thing- you better never do that to me OR A LOT OF OTHER FOLKS.

realkingcobra
07-19-2016, 06:30 PM
When you've been gambling long enough, seen enough, and been around long enough...you can tell right away if the person you're sizing up can play or not. It's in their stroke, speed, cue ball control, stance, how they hold their cue....hell, even how they chalk up their tip.....if they can play or not....I don't care how many balls they miss, get close to making, or just plain blow a shot. Their demeanor is visible if YOU yourself know how to play, and it's that insight to the other person that let's you know right off if you need a spot, or if you can even give one....watching the person long enough. You're not a pool player, you're just someone who wants to be one. A real pool player would have never came on AZB starting out a post like you did, not a chance!....but, you did....and in front of a bunch of members who've been around the block more than once and don't fall for no bullshit stories when it comes to gambling for real!

JC
07-19-2016, 06:42 PM
Go to paducah KY. You will find many straight up gamblers there, that are not very good. type of guys that will play you $5 a game all night long (losing every game), and never quit, and never ask you for a spot. I do not know about $50a game though.

I played a fellow who approached me races to 5 nine ball for 20 a set. I won 12 straight sets and he only won a total of 6 or 7 games. And he never quit. I had to call it off.

You never know what's going through the other guys head.

JC

couldnthinkof01
07-19-2016, 07:04 PM
5, 10, 50, or 100 a game doesnt matter. When you go off for a bunch ITS SUPPOSED TO HURT, thats the lesson!

People go off for a variety of reasons, sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield.

You dont need to save anybody, it is good for them.

Stay out of folks action, you will be better for it.

Since i believe this is what your looking for, congrats on the 100! Thats mighty fine hustlin, lol

Johnny Rosato
07-19-2016, 08:01 PM
Are you justinb386 ???

BmoreMoney
07-19-2016, 10:55 PM
When you've been gambling long enough, seen enough, and been around long enough...you can tell right away if the person you're sizing up can play or not. It's in their stroke, speed, cue ball control, stance, how they hold their cue....hell, even how they chalk up their tip.....if they can play or not....I don't care how many balls they miss, get close to making, or just plain blow a shot. Their demeanor is visible if YOU yourself know how to play, and it's that insight to the other person that let's you know right off if you need a spot, or if you can even give one....watching the person long enough. You're not a pool player, you're just someone who wants to be one. A real pool player would have never came on AZB starting out a post like you did, not a chance!....but, you did....and in front of a bunch of members who've been around the block more than once and don't fall for no bullshit stories when it comes to gambling for real!


RKC, been trying to give you a greenie for this one but it's not letting me. I'll try again later but wanted you to know I think this post is spot on sir!

Mustardeer
07-20-2016, 04:59 AM
you can tell right away if the person you're sizing up can play or not. It's in their stroke, speed, cue ball control, stance, how they hold their cue....

Yes and No. A weak player ( like guy B ) can't play for reasons you mentioned ( Unless he's the greatest actor of all time ) - easy to tell. However a very strong player and even an unknown pro can easily hide his or her speed. I don't care how pretty your stroke is if you're consistently not running out and missing shots and losing the CB that sends a message.

realkingcobra
07-20-2016, 08:48 AM
However a very strong player and even an unknown pro can easily hide his or her speed. I don't care how pretty your stroke is if you're consistently not running out and missing shots and losing the CB that sends a message.

You clearly don't get it buddy:rolleyes:

BmoreMoney
07-20-2016, 08:59 AM
Yes and No. A weak player ( like guy B ) can't play for reasons you mentioned ( Unless he's the greatest actor of all time ) - easy to tell. However a very strong player and even an unknown pro can easily hide his or her speed. I don't care how pretty your stroke is if you're consistently not running out and missing shots and losing the CB that sends a message.

No, no you would not. This goes back to what I was saying earlier about having the skill ( knowledge & ability ) of being able to clock someone is more important than your actual shooting skills. MANY, MANY folks can lay down so well that you wouldn't ever know. This goes back to the discussion everyone was having as to whether being able to lay down is " stealing ", " hustling " etc - etc. Many will contend, myself included, that this ability to do so is not only an extremely valuable skill but an art form as well.

KissedOut
07-20-2016, 09:41 AM
In other news my break cue got stolen last night ( right before my trip to Vegas :/ ) so I'm not in the best of moods, apologies if I'm a little "dense" right now.



Karma is a beautiful thing.

KissedOut
07-20-2016, 09:44 AM
No no no. I never played guy B. Meant opportunity for guy B to quit donating to guy A. They werent racing nor playing x ahead they were playing $50 a game. That break should have made him think.

Also meant guy A could have beat me - I wasnt stealing, I was very confident going in but anything can happen in a short race. He also could have been hiding his true speed so I could have lost.

You misrepresented your game by dumping to his student. In almost every context, obtaining money under false pretenses is fraud and stealing. You can rationalize it any way you want, but it is still stealing.

KissedOut
07-20-2016, 09:48 AM
No, no you would not. This goes back to what I was saying earlier about having the skill ( knowledge & ability ) of being able to clock someone is more important than your actual shooting skills. MANY, MANY folks can lay down so well that you wouldn't ever know. This goes back to the discussion everyone was having as to whether being able to lay down is " stealing ", " hustling " etc - etc. Many will contend, myself included, that this ability to do so is not only an extremely valuable skill but an art form as well.

So is forgery, which is on the same moral plane. Just because something takes a high level of skill doesn't make it virtuous.

Henry W
07-20-2016, 02:14 PM
I wonder if the post is a real experience. I wonder is these people who think they need to save people are even real.

BmoreMoney
07-20-2016, 02:28 PM
So is forgery, which is on the same moral plane. Just because something takes a high level of skill doesn't make it virtuous.

I personally do not believe it to be on the same moral plane but let's put that aside for now. The huge difference is that ( and this goes for EVERY single instance of an action match ) yall have to remember that the other person IS TRYING to get your money too!!!! It just turns one or the other is better at it. Once again, that person that some of yall are referring to as the person being " hustled " is trying JUST AS HARD to get the " hustlers " money.

BmoreMoney
07-20-2016, 02:34 PM
So is forgery, which is on the same moral plane. Just because something takes a high level of skill doesn't make it virtuous.

One other thing, I do not believe anyone is saying that Hustling or even gambling with a 100% dead even completely on the square is virtuous . Not saying that you necessarily are but by using the word " virtuous " could indicate a religious undertone. If that is the case, then ANY AND ALL gambling is wrong regardless of the circumstances.

Poolplaya9
07-20-2016, 02:52 PM
I personally do not believe it to be on the same moral plane...

It is exactly the same. You (and others who think this) are just failing to use any logic and think it through. But if you think it is different, then explain what the differences are and why you think those differences actually make a difference. There is no difference. You just have never bothered to critically question it because that was the pool culture you became familiar with. It has always just been "the way it is". Your viewpoint that "deceiving someone to take advantage of them can't possibly be wrong in pool if the majority of people in pool don't see it that way" is lazy thinking (total lack of thinking actually) that is devoid of any and all logic.

Very often he hardest part of using logic is having to be completely honest with ourselves and this is likely one of those cases for you and a lot of other people. You appreciate the skill of hustling. You derive benefit from it. You were raised with it largely being accepted by the pool culture. You don't want to see it for what it really is. It isn't self serving to see the truth, and so that makes it hard to want to see the truth. That doesn't change what the truth is though just because you don't want to use logic to take a critical and honest look at it.

The huge difference is that ( and this goes for EVERY single instance of an action match ) yall have to remember that the other person IS TRYING to get your money too!!!!

Maybe I have missed something but I don't recall anyone anywhere saying that they see any problem with anyone trying to win a match, even if there is money on the line. It is HOW they go about trying to win the match or the money that is the issue. If they are trying to win by playing hard, no problem. But if they are trying to take advantage of someone, or trying to deceive someone for that financial gain, it is no different than any other case of deceiving someone to take advantage of them. You just never stopped to really think about it with any honesty and logic.

BmoreMoney
07-20-2016, 03:17 PM
It is exactly the same. You (and others who think this) are just failing to use any logic and think it through. But if you think it is different, then explain what the differences are and why you think those differences actually make a difference. There is no difference. You just have never bothered to critically question it because that was the pool culture you became familiar with. It has always just been "the way it is". Your viewpoint that "deceiving someone to take advantage of them can't possibly be wrong in pool if the majority of people in pool don't see it that way" is lazy thinking (total lack of thinking actually) that is devoid of any and all logic.

Very often he hardest part of using logic is having to be completely honest with ourselves and this is likely one of those cases for you and a lot of other people. You appreciate the skill of hustling. You derive benefit from it. You were raised with it largely being accepted by the pool culture. You don't want to see it for what it really is. It isn't self serving to see the truth, and so that makes it hard to want to see the truth. That doesn't change what the truth is though just because you don't want to use logic to take a critical and honest look at it.



Maybe I have missed something but I don't recall anyone anywhere saying that they see any problem with anyone trying to win a match, even if there is money on the line. It is HOW they go about trying to win the match or the money that is the issue. If they are trying to win by playing hard, no problem. But if they are trying to take advantage of someone, or trying to deceive someone for that financial gain, it is no different than any other case of deceiving someone to take advantage of them. You just never stopped to really think about it with any honesty and logic.

OK let me preface this post by saying ( as if yall didn't already know lol ) yes I do think it's an art form, I do not have a problem with it, and no I do not consider it stealing. Ok;so, my main problem is with people that say it is no different than a forged check, an armed robbery, cheating a blind man, etc. Many are trying to lump all of these and many other things into the same category. Imo, all of these things ARE WAY WAY worse as far as I can see. They refer to it as stealing. Basically none of these examples have any choice in the matter. I'm not morally deficient, I do know the difference between right and wrong ( albeit that is different for every person ). Strictly speaking on being morally wrong ( on a religious level ) I will consent that " hustling " is morally wrong. ( because of a type and a level of deceit ). This becomes a slippery slope very quickly.

Now, not that any of yall would have any real way of knowing this but I am completely capable of being totally objective in just about all situations. This is the basis for logic. Now here's something for yall to ponder - and this is in regards to that slippery slope I spoke of. So you said you're OK with a match up on the " up and up right? " So guy a and guy b play. Guy a plays better than b and they both know it. Guy a offers the call 7. Player b thinks that's probably a fair game, however - just as almost EVERY single person that gets in action, wants to get the best game possible so he says no I want the free 6. Is it " wrong " for b to try and get the best game he can????? You tell me? Is b morally corrupt or is he stealing by trying to get that little extra weight?

Some people are gamblers, some are not and that's fine. But if a gambler says they are not gonna try to get the best game they can for their money I'm calling total BS!
So since I have given this example it brings what I posted earlier full circle in regards to both guys are trying to get each others money - hence why they are gambling in the first place. It's just that one is gonna be better at it than the other usually.

You made some comments about maybe me being complacent because that is what it always has been. There's truth to that. Here's an example I'll give you ( and don't give extreme could terms examples because you know that's not what we are talking about ) - here in our country it is very taboo to eat dogs and horses and therefore considered bad. Well there are plenty of places across the world where not only is it OK but it is common place and no big deal because that is the culture. Well this is the pool culture. Once again please don't rebut with an extreme example because you know that would not be fair because it would be out of context.

Bottom line; IMO, if you're gonna get in the box and put your cheez on the light you should know what the hell you're doing. Period.

Poolplaya9
07-20-2016, 04:50 PM
I do think it's an art form, I do not have a problem with it, and no I do not consider it stealing. Ok;so, my main problem is with people that say it is no different than a forged check, an armed robbery, cheating a blind man, etc. Many are trying to lump all of these and many other things into the same category. Imo, all of these things ARE WAY WAY worse as far as I can see.

You are using really bad logic and even changing the subject, all without even realizing it. It is like if the topic is whether murdering a human being for no good reason is wrong or not, and you come in and say that if you shoot somebody in the head so they die instantly it is not murder since there are cases where people had all their fingers and toes cut off one by one and then they were skinned alive until they finally died from blood loss or a heart attack from all the pain. Your conclusion is that since there are worse types of murder, shooting someone in the head somehow becomes not murder any more. There is no basis of logic in there. None. Whether or not shooting somebody in the head is murder is not dependent on whether or not there are worse ways to kill someone. They are all still murder.

And so it is here. Misleading or deceiving someone to take advantage of them is wrong, even though there may be "worse" examples that happen out there. But just because somebody else tortured a guy to death doesn't mean that when you shoot a guy in the head that isn't still murder too. We have to be careful to only use good logic.

Strictly speaking on being morally wrong ( on a religious level ) I will consent that " hustling " is morally wrong. ( because of a type and a level of deceit ).

Now this is using some logic, even when you don't like the answer. It is hard for everyone to do, not just for you. It isn't just on a "religious" level though, it is on a societal level on what we all know and agree are and are not appropriate behaviors.

Poolplaya9
07-20-2016, 04:58 PM
Is it " wrong " for b to try and get the best game he can????? You tell me? Is b morally corrupt or is he stealing by trying to get that little extra weight?

here in our country it is very taboo to eat dogs and horses and therefore considered bad. Well there are plenty of places across the world where not only is it OK but it is common place and no big deal because that is the culture. Well this is the pool culture.
This is a very good observation and point. It is a two part answer. The first is that is not not the pool culture, as if every person out there that plays pool agrees with it, practices it, participates in it, or even knows about it. It is the pool culture for you. It is the pool culture for a portion of other pool players. But it is not the pool culture for everyone. It is not the pool culture for another large segment of pool players, probably even the majority. And just because it is the culture you like doesn't mean that you can expect that everybody else should have to adopt it too. The no snitch "hood culture" says that if somebody murders your mama and you saw who did it, you are supposed to keep your mouth shut and let them get away with it. But just because that is somebody else's culture doesn't mean they have a right to impose it on you if that isn't your culture.

If that isn't your culture you have a right to tell the police that it was Jim Bob down the street that shot your mama. You aren't doing anything wrong if you do. In fact you are doing the right thing. It was their culture that was wrong according to what all of society knows and agrees with, not your culture that was wrong.

So the second part of the answer is this. If both parties have the same viewpoints about the pool culture in that deceiving is ok to take advantage of people when gambling in pool, then I see no problem with it as both agree. They have given each other permission to do it so to speak. A good analogy is a poker game. Lying and deceiving is a part of the game. Everybody who sits down at the poker table knows this, and is accepting this, and gives their permission for it to happen by sitting down. It is not wrong to try to bluff another player because he already gave you permission to do it.

Pool is not at all like poker though. Not everybody considers hustling to be an integral part of the game. In fact most probably don't. So if you are matching up with another player that you know has the same beliefs, that it is ok to do whatever deceit that you can get away with to get the best game for yourself, then no, it is not wrong. He already agreed to it. He gave you permission to do it. But if that person does not come from that same line of thought that you do then yes it is wrong to try to deceive and take advantage of them. And if you don't know the person and what their beliefs are, then it is also wrong to try to deceive and take advantage of them. It only becomes right when they give you "permission" by being of the same mind and you know for a fact that they are of the same mind.

Now if a player knows they have the worst of it and chooses to play anyway, I see no problem with it. If they aren't being deceived or are not somehow ignorant to the facts then it is not wrong to play them if they have full knowledge that they are taking the worst of it and choose to do it anyway. Now if they are doing it because they their wife just divorced them and they are despondent and based on irrational feelings at the moment they don't care (but will likely regret it later) then yes it is probably taking advantage of them and is wrong. Same thing if they are drunk and you think they may regret it later.

It can sometimes be a gray area and a judgement call but bottom line if they are being deceived or taken advantage of without having given you permission to do so (by being clear that they have the same beliefs system regarding the pool culture) then it is probably wrong.

realkingcobra
07-20-2016, 05:27 PM
Holy shit, do none of you understand what gambling is when it comes to pool? First off, no one....and I mean NO ONE is being forced to gamble when they don't want to, so that leaves WILLING participant's who for what ever reason....want to battle it out and see who comes up on top with the cash, played mostly by GROWN UP ADULTS, and therefore are held accountable for their choices to gamble. Hustling is just part of the game of matching up to GET ACTION. When was the last time ANY of you saw someone playing pool for money with a gun being held to their head to play????? Now, if the players are staging the match up just to deceive the spectators who are betting on the side.....THAT'S what I call being devious and stealing, which is why SIDE BETTING IS ILLEGAL, but NOT if the betting is between the involved players!!!

couldnthinkof01
07-20-2016, 06:06 PM
So your saying two adults can make their own choices with their money and the consequences thereof, also?

Whhhaattt?

BmoreMoney
07-20-2016, 06:14 PM
Holy shit, do none of you understand what gambling is when it comes to pool? First off, no one....and I mean NO ONE is being forced to gamble when they don't want to, so that leaves WILLING participant's who for what ever reason....want to battle it out and see who comes up on top with the cash, played mostly by GROWN UP ADULTS, and therefore are held accountable for their choices to gamble. Hustling is just part of the game of matching up to GET ACTION. When was the last time ANY of you saw someone playing pool for money with a gun being held to their head to play????? Now, if the players are staging the match up just to deceive the spectators who are betting on the side.....THAT'S what I call being devious and stealing, which is why SIDE BETTING IS ILLEGAL, but NOT if the betting is between the involved players!!!

I WAS gonna reply to that last one BUT, I just made me a nice big meal ANDROID I consider it pointless. Those on here that understand understand and does not require a response and those that do not get it never will so whatever. BTW, not sure why but it still won't let me give you greenies???? Not on this one either lol????

BmoreMoney
07-20-2016, 06:21 PM
This is a very good observation and point. It is a two part answer. The first is that is not not the pool culture, as if every person out there that plays pool agrees with it, practices it, participates in it, or even knows about it. It is the pool culture for you. It is the pool culture for a portion of other pool players. But it is not the pool culture for everyone. It is not the pool culture for another large segment of pool players, probably even the majority. And just because it is the culture you like doesn't mean that you can expect that everybody else should have to adopt it too. The no snitch "hood culture" says that if somebody murders your mama and you saw who did it, you are supposed to keep your mouth shut and let them get away with it. But just because that is somebody else's culture doesn't mean they have a right to impose it on you if that isn't your culture.

If that isn't your culture you have a right to tell the police that it was Jim Bob down the street that shot your mama. You aren't doing anything wrong if you do. In fact you are doing the right thing. It was their culture that was wrong according to what all of society knows and agrees with, not your culture that was wrong.

So the second part of the answer is this. If both parties have the same viewpoints about the pool culture in that deceiving is ok to take advantage of people when gambling in pool, then I see no problem with it as both agree. They have given each other permission to do it so to speak. A good analogy is a poker game. Lying and deceiving is a part of the game. Everybody who sits down at the poker table knows this, and is accepting this, and gives their permission for it to happen by sitting down. It is not wrong to try to bluff another player because he already gave you permission to do it.

Pool is not at all like poker though. Not everybody considers hustling to be an integral part of the game. In fact most probably don't. So if you are matching up with another player that you know has the same beliefs, that it is ok to do whatever deceit that you can get away with to get the best game for yourself, then no, it is not wrong. He already agreed to it. He gave you permission to do it. But if that person does not come from that same line of thought that you do then yes it is wrong to try to deceive and take advantage of them. And if you don't know the person and what their beliefs are, then it is also wrong to try to deceive and take advantage of them. It only becomes right when they give you "permission" by being of the same mind and you know for a fact that they are of the same mind.

Now if a player knows they have the worst of it and chooses to play anyway, I see no problem with it. If they aren't being deceived or are not somehow ignorant to the facts then it is not wrong to play them if they have full knowledge that they are taking the worst of it and choose to do it anyway. Now if they are doing it because they their wife just divorced them and they are despondent and based on irrational feelings at the moment they don't care (but will likely regret it later) then yes it is probably taking advantage of them and is wrong. Same thing if they are drunk and you think they may regret it later.

It can sometimes be a gray area and a judgement call but bottom line if they are being deceived or taken advantage of without having given you permission to do so (by being clear that they have the same beliefs system regarding the pool culture) then it is probably wrong.

I am gonna reply to one portion. That is only because you continue to bring this up with me. The " hood culture " as you so eloquently put it is not so that person doesn't face jistice, it's so that justice can be dealt with amongst their own - which pretty much always happens. It's because everyone knows how F'do the system is and if left to its on device that person will not receive what most would consider " true justice ". It happens everyday, someone does something horrific and they get 5 or 10 years but yet they took someone's life and or ruined countless other lives. This is the concept that seems to elude you sir.

desi2960
07-20-2016, 08:01 PM
You keep your nose out of other people's games

ChicagoJay
07-20-2016, 08:46 PM
Oh I see. Well you had to be there. It was really hard to watch. The guy losing was a grown man in his forties..
Right a grown man in his 40s, if he chooses to spend money gambling and losing then let him. No need to step in and help.

KissedOut
07-21-2016, 10:02 AM
I personally do not believe it to be on the same moral plane but let's put that aside for now. The huge difference is that ( and this goes for EVERY single instance of an action match ) yall have to remember that the other person IS TRYING to get your money too!!!! It just turns one or the other is better at it. Once again, that person that some of yall are referring to as the person being " hustled " is trying JUST AS HARD to get the " hustlers " money.

Great, so we justify it by saying that is it a bunch of crooks stealing money from each other?

Hustling is not the same as gambling.

KissedOut
07-21-2016, 10:03 AM
One other thing, I do not believe anyone is saying that Hustling or even gambling with a 100% dead even completely on the square is virtuous . Not saying that you necessarily are but by using the word " virtuous " could indicate a religious undertone. If that is the case, then ANY AND ALL gambling is wrong regardless of the circumstances.

Nah, I have no problem with honest straight up gambling. It is this dishonest crap and the glorification of it that has irretrievably trashed pool.

KissedOut
07-21-2016, 10:09 AM
OK let me preface this post by saying ( as if yall didn't already know lol ) yes I do think it's an art form, I do not have a problem with it, and no I do not consider it stealing. Ok;so, my main problem is with people that say it is no different than a forged check, an armed robbery, cheating a blind man, etc. Many are trying to lump all of these and many other things into the same category. Imo, all of these things ARE WAY WAY worse as far as I can see. They refer to it as stealing. Basically none of these examples have any choice in the matter. I'm not morally deficient, I do know the difference between right and wrong ( albeit that is different for every person ). Strictly speaking on being morally wrong ( on a religious level ) I will consent that " hustling " is morally wrong. ( because of a type and a level of deceit ). This becomes a slippery slope very quickly.

Now, not that any of yall would have any real way of knowing this but I am completely capable of being totally objective in just about all situations. This is the basis for logic. Now here's something for yall to ponder - and this is in regards to that slippery slope I spoke of. So you said you're OK with a match up on the " up and up right? " So guy a and guy b play. Guy a plays better than b and they both know it. Guy a offers the call 7. Player b thinks that's probably a fair game, however - just as almost EVERY single person that gets in action, wants to get the best game possible so he says no I want the free 6. Is it " wrong " for b to try and get the best game he can????? You tell me? Is b morally corrupt or is he stealing by trying to get that little extra weight?

Some people are gamblers, some are not and that's fine. But if a gambler says they are not gonna try to get the best game they can for their money I'm calling total BS!
So since I have given this example it brings what I posted earlier full circle in regards to both guys are trying to get each others money - hence why they are gambling in the first place. It's just that one is gonna be better at it than the other usually.

You made some comments about maybe me being complacent because that is what it always has been. There's truth to that. Here's an example I'll give you ( and don't give extreme could terms examples because you know that's not what we are talking about ) - here in our country it is very taboo to eat dogs and horses and therefore considered bad. Well there are plenty of places across the world where not only is it OK but it is common place and no big deal because that is the culture. Well this is the pool culture. Once again please don't rebut with an extreme example because you know that would not be fair because it would be out of context.

Bottom line; IMO, if you're gonna get in the box and put your cheez on the light you should know what the hell you're doing. Period.

You are not even remotely objective. Getting the best game in negotiating, and getting a better than best game by deception are not the same. The OP STOLE money by DECEIVING player A. Why is it so hard for you to accept that? There was nothing honest about that transaction.

But you are right that THIS is the pool culture. Which is why pool sucks and will never be mainstream.

KissedOut
07-21-2016, 10:14 AM
Holy shit, do none of you understand what gambling is when it comes to pool? First off, no one....and I mean NO ONE is being forced to gamble when they don't want to, so that leaves WILLING participant's who for what ever reason....want to battle it out and see who comes up on top with the cash, played mostly by GROWN UP ADULTS, and therefore are held accountable for their choices to gamble. Hustling is just part of the game of matching up to GET ACTION. When was the last time ANY of you saw someone playing pool for money with a gun being held to their head to play????? Now, if the players are staging the match up just to deceive the spectators who are betting on the side.....THAT'S what I call being devious and stealing, which is why SIDE BETTING IS ILLEGAL, but NOT if the betting is between the involved players!!!

That is fine right up to the point that one person uses deception in misrepresenting their playing level. That is when it becomes stealing. Forget the OPs behavior in trying to squash the action. Do you think it is OK for the OP to drastically dump to one guy to mislead another guy about his playing ability to get a match he cannot lose?

Is gambling the only economic transaction where fraud should be permitted?

KissedOut
07-21-2016, 10:17 AM
Here is the REAL pool culture. Everyone's panties are in a bunch because action got stepped on, but almost no one really cares about the OPs blatant dishonest hustle. That is the value system of the pool culture. And it sucks, as pool sucks, and explains why it will never be mainstream.

KissedOut
07-21-2016, 10:19 AM
Right a grown man in his 40s, if he chooses to spend money gambling and losing then let him. No need to step in and help.

Unless you can do so by hustling $100 for yourself. I wonder if OP cared enough about the player he was trying to save that he gave him the stolen $100?

Straightpool_99
07-21-2016, 10:45 AM
Here is the REAL pool culture. Everyone's panties are in a bunch because action got stepped on, but almost no one really cares about the OPs blatant dishonest hustle. That is the value system of the pool culture. And it sucks, as pool sucks, and explains why it will never be mainstream.

It's lame, I agree. I can honestly say I've never hustled anyone! I have played for money, but I never lay down. I always play my hardest (unless I'm playing kids, non-player friends or something like that). At times people have misjudged my speed, but that was their mistake, not from me hiding my ability. Pool to me is a sport, and I prefer not to hang out with lowlifes more than I absolutely have to, nor do I want to rob beginners of their money. I'm playing to get better, primarily. If I choose to play you for money, it's because I respect you and your game, not because I see you as a lamb to be slaughtered.

Pool is in the gutter for many reasons, but the culture displayed in this thread has at least some of the blame. It extends all the way up to the top. Every time someone starts anything in pool it ends up with the top guy running away with everyones money or at least trying to. The entire Bonus Ball venture, and the IPT as well were hustles on a gigantic scale. They were not successful hustles, but they were hustles none the less. The entirety of modern pool history is a long line of failed hustles, and a few successful ones, that in fact did even more damage! COC scandal, anyone?

BmoreMoney
07-21-2016, 03:17 PM
But you are right that THIS is the pool culture. Which is why pool sucks and will never be mainstream.

I do not think that is a valid statement at all. This has been going on since the very first pool table ever was built. If you read some of the stories provided by Mr Bond, at one point pool stars were just as popular as any Hollywood actor, made as much money as professional baseball stars of the time, look at the booms of the Hustler and TCOM periods and many others. Hustling did not keep pool from being mainstream then and if anything helped make pool more popular. There are many things effecting pool such as economy, many other things to do - video games and casinos as an example.

realkingcobra
07-21-2016, 03:20 PM
That is fine right up to the point that one person uses deception in misrepresenting their playing level. That is when it becomes stealing. Forget the OPs behavior in trying to squash the action. Do you think it is OK for the OP to drastically dump to one guy to mislead another guy about his playing ability to get a match he cannot lose?

Is gambling the only economic transaction where fraud should be permitted?

His story is pure bullshit, and I say that because I've played pool for money for a long.....long time. This I know to be the truth when it comes to making money gambling, if you're playing someone for money....and you can get that first bet or race to what ever....under YOUR belt, your opponent will lose as much as they're willing to lose chasing down that first amount of money lost. To many times ive won $100 from my opponent chasing the first $10 they lost. Once I had them on the hook, chasing that $10....I could afford to play games with him losing a game here and there, but always just keeping that first $10 lost suckling more and more out of him. Only when he'd said he'd had enough did I consider giving up some weight to get more money out of him, but I was also paying very close attention to IF he still had more cash on him to lose....if not, I didn't want to give up weight and play him on the wire, so we'd quit when he said he'd had enough...and that was that. Now, if I saw him in the pool room later on, I'd wait until he'd come up to me and ask to play again, if he didn't approach me, then I'd bump into him sooner or later and ask him if he wantediluvian to play again....same as we played the last time. If he turned me down, then....and only then did I offer him a chance to get his money back....but I always let him set the terms of playing again, I never offered a spot first. If his terms offered was less than what I was willing to give him, then the play began....if his terms was more weight than I was willing to give up, then I would counter him with a different match up. If he didn't like my offer....then we wouldn't play at that time. BUT....sooner or later, he'd be in the pool room another time, and offer to play me with the counter terms he'd first offered, and I'd beat him until he was broke again.

I never played anyone my speed or better very often in my own pool rooms because then I'd have to play at my true speed, which would cost me more money in the long run than I could have made playing someone of my own speed.

I'll never forget the time I pulled my second tour in Germany. I was stationed in Garlstadt, GR, hadn't been there but about a month, already beating every player who come in the post recreation center when I finally got to meet the so called best player on post....Benjy Brooks. He was pretty good, real good actually....but I get him playing 9ball, 8ball, 8ball last pocket, 6ball....and finally banks....over the next couple of weeks, in which I learned the harest lesson of all, being the best don't pay shit. I could never get action with anyone.on post again....but Benny on the other hand, was playing everyone left and right for money. The lesson I learned was that everyone was playing Benny as a way of seeing if thsir game had improved enough to play me.....because if the couldn't beat Benny....then they didn't want to play me.....so, Benny thanked me with giving me a $100 because before I showed up....he couldn't make a dime anymore in the pool room as he'd already beaten everyone in the past and all his action had died so he wasn't making shit.

But, Benny was nice enough to take me all over Germany to all the action spots as an unknown so I could still make some money....but of course....50% of what I'd win was his...LMAO


Bottom line here is, yes, hustling IS a form of art, whereas gambling is for the suckers!!!!

BmoreMoney
07-21-2016, 03:43 PM
Another point I think is worth mentioning. Starting at a relatively young age, I saw and learned pretty much all the moves. These were invaluable life lessons that I was able to carry into my adult life and have been able to use to protect myself in countless situations. So may call it common sense, maybe street smarts but whatever you want to call it there are SOOO many lacking it now adays. There are so many people out there each and every day just looking to rip people off with this or that and the reason so many people get ripped of today is because they lack this knowledge. In a real pool room you will see the absolute best and absolute worst of people. Knowing these things early on will help you throughout your entire life.

dabarbr
07-21-2016, 03:44 PM
His story is pure bullshit, and I say that because I've played pool for money for a long.....long time. This I know to be the truth when it comes to making money gambling, if you're playing someone for money....and you can get that first bet or race to what ever....under YOUR belt, your opponent will lose as much as they're willing to lose chasing down that first amount of money lost. To many times ive won $100 from my opponent chasing the first $10 they lost. Once I had them on the hook, chasing that $10....I could afford to play games with him losing a game here and there, but always just keeping that first $10 lost suckling more and more out of him. Only when he'd said he'd had enough did I consider giving up some weight to get more money out of him, but I was also paying very close attention to IF he still had more cash on him to lose....if not, I didn't want to give up weight and play him on the wire, so we'd quit when he said he'd had enough...and that was that. Now, if I saw him in the pool room later on, I'd wait until he'd come up to me and ask to play again, if he didn't approach me, then I'd bump into him sooner or later and ask him if he wantediluvian to play again....same as we played the last time. If he turned me down, then....and only then did I offer him a chance to get his money back....but I always let him set the terms of playing again, I never offered a spot first. If his terms offered was less than what I was willing to give him, then the play began....if his terms was more weight than I was willing to give up, then I would counter him with a different match up. If he didn't like my offer....then we wouldn't play at that time. BUT....sooner or later, he'd be in the pool room another time, and offer to play me with the counter terms he'd first offered, and I'd beat him until he was broke again.

I never played anyone my speed or better very often in my own pool rooms because then I'd have to play at my true speed, which would cost me more money in the long run than I could have made playing someone of my own speed.

I'll never forget the time I pulled my second tour in Germany. I was stationed in Garlstadt, GR, hadn't been there but about a month, already beating every player who come in the post recreation center when I finally got to meet the so called best player on post....Benjy Brooks. He was pretty good, real good actually....but I get him playing 9ball, 8ball, 8ball last pocket, 6ball....and finally banks....over the next couple of weeks, in which I learned the harest lesson of all, being the best don't pay shit. I could never get action with anyone.on post again....but Benny on the other hand, was playing everyone left and right for money. The lesson I learned was that everyone was playing Benny as a way of seeing if thsir game had improved enough to play me.....because if the couldn't beat Benny....then they didn't want to play me.....so, Benny thanked me with giving me a $100 because before I showed up....he couldn't make a dime anymore in the pool room as he'd already beaten everyone in the past and all his action had died so he wasn't making shit.

But, Benny was nice enough to take me all over Germany to all the action spots as an unknown so I could still make some money....but of course....50% of what I'd win was his...LMAO


Bottom line here is, yes, hustling IS a form of art, whereas gambling is for the suckers!!!!

The truth is that what you say is the truth. There is beauty also in watching two players hustling each other and hiding their speed and as time goes on both games get better because neither one wants to get stuck. No profit if you get stuck and trying to at least get even. Many times they will quit before you get even.
The truth is everyone wants the best of it if money is involved.

realkingcobra
07-21-2016, 05:07 PM
The truth is that what you say is the truth. There is beauty also in watching two players hustling each other and hiding their speed and as time goes on both games get better because neither one wants to get stuck. No profit if you get stuck and trying to at least get even. Many times they will quit before you get even.
The truth is everyone wants the best of it if money is involved.

Breaking even was always bad business. If my opponent buried me from the start, and I fought my way back k to even...they pulled out of the action because they didn't want to take the chance.of losing. If I ever let a weaker player get back to even by slacking off, they'd quit in a NY second....or want some kind of spot to keep playing to which I'd always refuse to give up weight....without having their money in my pocket first:thumbup:

BmoreMoney
07-21-2016, 05:31 PM
Breaking even was always bad business. If my opponent buried me from the start, and I fought my way back k to even...they pulled out of the action because they didn't want to take the chance.of losing. If I ever let a weaker player get back to even by slacking off, they'd quit in a NY second....or want some kind of spot to keep playing to which I'd always refuse to give up weight....without having their money in my pocket first:thumbup:

RKC, I have a strong belief that many that post here on various topics have never been there - done that. I think they are " idealistic " people and probably live their " real " lives exactly the same. It's quite easy to put forth your opinion when in reality although you " think " you know what you're talking about but have nothing more than a thought.

Johnny Rosato
07-21-2016, 08:08 PM
It's lame, I agree. I can honestly say I've never hustled anyone! I have played for money, but I never lay down. I always play my hardest (unless I'm playing kids, non-player friends or something like that). At times people have misjudged my speed, but that was their mistake, not from me hiding my ability. Pool to me is a sport, and I prefer not to hang out with lowlifes more than I absolutely have to, nor do I want to rob beginners of their money. I'm playing to get better, primarily. If I choose to play you for money, it's because I respect you and your game, not because I see you as a lamb to be slaughtered.

Pool is in the gutter for many reasons, but the culture displayed in this thread has at least some of the blame. It extends all the way up to the top. Every time someone starts anything in pool it ends up with the top guy running away with everyones money or at least trying to. The entire Bonus Ball venture, and the IPT as well were hustles on a gigantic scale. They were not successful hustles, but they were hustles none the less. The entirety of modern pool history is a long line of failed hustles, and a few successful ones, that in fact did even more damage! COC scandal, anyone?
Very well said !!!

Tony_in_MD
07-21-2016, 08:12 PM
I am going to blow some money at a Casino tomorrow, I hope some helpful soul doesn't try to stop me.

:)


Right a grown man in his 40s, if he chooses to spend money gambling and losing then let him. No need to step in and help.

Poolplaya9
07-22-2016, 03:46 AM
That is only because you continue to bring this up with me. The " hood culture " as you so eloquently put it is not so that person doesn't face jistice, it's so that justice can be dealt with amongst their own - which pretty much always happens.

I have mentioned something similar one time. It was the perfect analogy here. That hardly amounts to "continuing to bring it up with you".

As for the rest, I think you are just playing dumb. There is no way anybody is really that dense. The "keep your mouth shut" mentality from criminals is 99% precisely so they can get away with their activity and escape justice. You are obviously incredibly naive and you damn sure aren't remotely close to being street smart like you think you are.

Poolplaya9
07-22-2016, 04:36 AM
RKC, I have a strong belief that many that post here on various topics have never been there - done that. I think they are " idealistic " people and probably live their " real " lives exactly the same. It's quite easy to put forth your opinion when in reality although you " think " you know what you're talking about but have nothing more than a thought.

Will you please try to use just a little bit of logic just one time somewhere in this thread? Just a little bit? Just once? You don't even have to have ever even played pool to know that deceiving someone to take advantage of them is wrong. This isn't rocket science dude. Your experience level in pool is immaterial to being able to see this. But for the record I personally have some experience and have been gambling at pool longer than you have, have owned a pool hall, have been fully and heavily immersed and involved in the culture for a long time, etc. None of it is needed to see the obvious though.

Your excuse that "well everybody in pool does it so that makes it somehow right" is a dumb excuse with no logic. By that same logic, if I start to hang out only with murderers is it now somehow ok if I murder somebody since everybody I hang out with does it too? The "well everybody else is doing it so that makes it right" argument is dumb. There is no logic there.

Not to mention that the "it is the pool culture" argument is wrong to begin with too. It is not the pool culture. Yes hustling and deceiving to take advantage of people is accepted by more people in pool than it is by society in general but it still is only the culture of a very small segment people who play pool. There are something like forty million people who play pool in the US (or whatever the latest figure is). How many of them are hustlers? Less than 1% probably. Even among serious players who play often, at least once a week, what percentage do you think are hustling? Maybe 5%? What about among those that gamble often, what percentage of them are hustlers? Maybe 20%--maybe?

It is a small segment no matter how you look at it and it is a minority no matter how you slice it. A minority of people is never the culture. Hustling is just the culture of the hustlers. All you have really managed to say in this thread is "well all the hustlers hustle". Well no sh!t sherlock. Of course all hustlers are hustlers. Of course hustling is the culture among hustlers. But most pool players, serious pool players, and even most pool players who gamble not hustlers. Hustlers are a minority any way you cut it and it is not the culture except among hustlers.

But even if it was the culture and 100% of pool players did it, it doesn't make it right. It just means that everybody in that culture is doing wrong. Yours and other peoples attempts to justify it are laughable and lack any logic whatsoever. You aren't even able to be honest with yourselves. Just stop lying and admit that yeah of course it is wrong to try to deceive someone to take advantage of them but you like to do it anyway because you need the money or just to see how good you can be at deceiving people or whatever your reason. But stop lying to yourself and us as it makes one not look very smart when you try to argue something ludicrous.

If you still want to be silly and try to insist that deceiving someone to take advantage of them in pool is somehow not wrong when it is wrong in literally every other case in the entire world, then we are still waiting to hear your LOGICAL explanation for why it is ok in pool when it is wrong everywhere else. If you can't lay out a logical argument (which you can't but again lets hear it if you think you can) then just admit the truth, that of course it is wrong, there is nothing logical about pool that would make it some exception, but you just like it anyway for whatever your reasons.

jburkm002
07-22-2016, 08:26 AM
What's the difference if two players play a race for $1000 or play $100 a game? If player A is much better than player B. Player A still comes out ahead $1000. Is one gambling and the other is hustling?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

KissedOut
07-22-2016, 09:17 AM
RKC, I have a strong belief that many that post here on various topics have never been there - done that. I think they are " idealistic " people and probably live their " real " lives exactly the same. It's quite easy to put forth your opinion when in reality although you " think " you know what you're talking about but have nothing more than a thought.

You are right. People who have never lived in the gutter shouldn't comment about the stink.

You don't even see the problem because you are so steeped in it.

Maybe you guys really believe it is an art form to extract as much money as possible from someone via deception. How sad for you. You are kings in a little corrupt dirty world. Yay.

Neil
07-22-2016, 10:25 AM
.........................
If you still want to be silly and try to insist that deceiving someone to take advantage of them in pool is somehow not wrong when it is wrong in literally every other case in the entire world, then we are still waiting to hear your LOGICAL explanation for why it is ok in pool when it is wrong everywhere else. If you can't lay out a logical argument (which you can't but again lets hear it if you think you can) then just admit the truth, that of course it is wrong, there is nothing logical about pool that would make it some exception, but you just like it anyway for whatever your reasons.

I have one word for you- poker.

alstl
07-22-2016, 10:38 AM
Will you please try to use just a little bit of logic just one time somewhere in this thread? Just a little bit? Just once? You don't even have to have ever even played pool to know that deceiving someone to take advantage of them is wrong. This isn't rocket science dude. Your experience level in pool is immaterial to being able to see this. But for the record I personally have some experience and have been gambling at pool longer than you have, have owned a pool hall, have been fully and heavily immersed and involved in the culture for a long time, etc. None of it is needed to see the obvious though.

Your excuse that "well everybody in pool does it so that makes it somehow right" is a dumb excuse with no logic. By that same logic, if I start to hang out only with murderers is it now somehow ok if I murder somebody since everybody I hang out with does it too? The "well everybody else is doing it so that makes it right" argument is dumb. There is no logic there.

Not to mention that the "it is the pool culture" argument is wrong to begin with too. It is not the pool culture. Yes hustling and deceiving to take advantage of people is accepted by more people in pool than it is by society in general but it still is only the culture of a very small segment people who play pool. There are something like forty million people who play pool in the US (or whatever the latest figure is). How many of them are hustlers? Less than 1% probably. Even among serious players who play often, at least once a week, what percentage do you think are hustling? Maybe 5%? What about among those that gamble often, what percentage of them are hustlers? Maybe 20%--maybe?

It is a small segment no matter how you look at it and it is a minority no matter how you slice it. A minority of people is never the culture. Hustling is just the culture of the hustlers. All you have really managed to say in this thread is "well all the hustlers hustle". Well no sh!t sherlock. Of course all hustlers are hustlers. Of course hustling is the culture among hustlers. But most pool players, serious pool players, and even most pool players who gamble not hustlers. Hustlers are a minority any way you cut it and it is not the culture except among hustlers.

But even if it was the culture and 100% of pool players did it, it doesn't make it right. It just means that everybody in that culture is doing wrong. Yours and other peoples attempts to justify it are laughable and lack any logic whatsoever. You aren't even able to be honest with yourselves. Just stop lying and admit that yeah of course it is wrong to try to deceive someone to take advantage of them but you like to do it anyway because you need the money or just to see how good you can be at deceiving people or whatever your reason. But stop lying to yourself and us as it makes one not look very smart when you try to argue something ludicrous.

If you still want to be silly and try to insist that deceiving someone to take advantage of them in pool is somehow not wrong when it is wrong in literally every other case in the entire world, then we are still waiting to hear your LOGICAL explanation for why it is ok in pool when it is wrong everywhere else. If you can't lay out a logical argument (which you can't but again lets hear it if you think you can) then just admit the truth, that of course it is wrong, there is nothing logical about pool that would make it some exception, but you just like it anyway for whatever your reasons.

I rarely discuss politics because you can lose friends and because nobody changes their mind but Hillary hired some experts deleted 33,000 emails to cover up some shady business and she is probably going to be the next president of the country. When the politicians engage in trade negotiations it is done in private and then you go to work one morning to discover your job has been shipped overseas. Deceiving people is more prevalent in pool than in the rest of society? The people running the country do it every day for far higher stakes than what pool players play for.

pvc lou
07-22-2016, 11:04 AM
It appears to me that your main "logical device" is to belittle and insult your readers' intelligence.


I have mentioned something similar one time. It was the perfect analogy here. That hardly amounts to "continuing to bring it up with you".



As for the rest, I think you are just playing dumb. There is no way anybody is really that dense. The "keep your mouth shut" mentality from criminals is 99% precisely so they can get away with their activity and escape justice. You are obviously incredibly naive and you damn sure aren't remotely close to being street smart like you think you are.

MikieG
07-22-2016, 11:20 AM
I have been playing for 28 years now. When i realized i wasnt going pro, i decided to build cues. I love cue games as much as the next guy.
That said, we wonder why billiards is loosing interest. It is viewed as a scummy game played in seedy places by the scurge of society.
I have watched kids come into the game and think this is really what it is all about.

realkingcobra
07-22-2016, 11:21 AM
Will you please try to use just a little bit of logic just one time somewhere in this thread? Just a little bit? Just once? You don't even have to have ever even played pool to know that deceiving someone to take advantage of them is wrong. This isn't rocket science dude. Your experience level in pool is immaterial to being able to see this. But for the record I personally have some experience and have been gambling at pool longer than you have, have owned a pool hall, have been fully and heavily immersed and involved in the culture for a long time, etc. None of it is needed to see the obvious though.

Your excuse that "well everybody in pool does it so that makes it somehow right" is a dumb excuse with no logic. By that same logic, if I start to hang out only with murderers is it now somehow ok if I murder somebody since everybody I hang out with does it too? The "well everybody else is doing it so that makes it right" argument is dumb. There is no logic there.

Not to mention that the "it is the pool culture" argument is wrong to begin with too. It is not the pool culture. Yes hustling and deceiving to take advantage of people is accepted by more people in pool than it is by society in general but it still is only the culture of a very small segment people who play pool. There are something like forty million people who play pool in the US (or whatever the latest figure is). How many of them are hustlers? Less than 1% probably. Even among serious players who play often, at least once a week, what percentage do you think are hustling? Maybe 5%? What about among those that gamble often, what percentage of them are hustlers? Maybe 20%--maybe?

It is a small segment no matter how you look at it and it is a minority no matter how you slice it. A minority of people is never the culture. Hustling is just the culture of the hustlers. All you have really managed to say in this thread is "well all the hustlers hustle". Well no sh!t sherlock. Of course all hustlers are hustlers. Of course hustling is the culture among hustlers. But most pool players, serious pool players, and even most pool players who gamble not hustlers. Hustlers are a minority any way you cut it and it is not the culture except among hustlers.

But even if it was the culture and 100% of pool players did it, it doesn't make it right. It just means that everybody in that culture is doing wrong. Yours and other peoples attempts to justify it are laughable and lack any logic whatsoever. You aren't even able to be honest with yourselves. Just stop lying and admit that yeah of course it is wrong to try to deceive someone to take advantage of them but you like to do it anyway because you need the money or just to see how good you can be at deceiving people or whatever your reason. But stop lying to yourself and us as it makes one not look very smart when you try to argue something ludicrous.

If you still want to be silly and try to insist that deceiving someone to take advantage of them in pool is somehow not wrong when it is wrong in literally every other case in the entire world, then we are still waiting to hear your LOGICAL explanation for why it is ok in pool when it is wrong everywhere else. If you can't lay out a logical argument (which you can't but again lets hear it if you think you can) then just admit the truth, that of course it is wrong, there is nothing logical about pool that would make it some exception, but you just like it anyway for whatever your reasons.

You're so full of shit I can smell you all the way to my house. When GROWN adults agree to play pool for money or for what ever the bet is, it is done so WILLINGLY. You're like a politician who wants to call it immoral, unless of course you're getting something out of it. Alcohol, cigarettes, fast foods, TVs, computers, cell phones and drugs are all bad for everyone, including you, yet you accept all of the bullshit shoved down your throat as being ok, even though uncountable dollars are being made off the public sheep in this country....as being ok. Income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, Capitol gains taxes, lottery taxes.....all those taxes are ripping you off on a daily basis, like it or not, no matter what....you're going to support a tax stealing money from you and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Gambling playing pool is a choice, NO ONE is reaching into your wallet and taking your money without your permission, like it or not. Don't like pool played for money, then DON'T PLAY POOL FOR MONEY, is that simple. Who are YOU to even think you have a right to judge what other pool players do when it comes to gambling playing pool?

realkingcobra
07-22-2016, 11:36 AM
I have been playing for 28 years now. When i realized i wasnt going pro

There you have it in a nut shell...."Pro"....in today's world, what does that even mean? The problem with pool not going anywhere is because EVERYONE playing thinks they have a right to play with the best players on the planet at anytime in any pool tournament that they can buy their way into which seriously blurs the line between what makes a Pro and the rest of the dead weight players. When there is no defining line between the best and the rest, there is no representation of this sport on a Professional level that the world can see as the best there is in this sport, and without that level of separation there will never be any professional level sponsors to support a bunch of rag tag pool players who want to share the lime light with the best there is for fear of being left out and cast aside as not good enough to belong in the same class of players. No, pool players would rather remain selfish and delut this sport with their presence, rather than draw a line in the sand and push the top 128 plyers in the world over that line as the best of the best, to represent this sport on a professional basis that the world might enjoy watching PROFESSIONAL POOL PLAYERS represent this sport for the good of all, and for the good of the sponsors so that they continue to look at this sport as having our shit together.....FINALLY!

MikieG
07-22-2016, 12:03 PM
When you can encounter the "PROs" in the very same pool rooms the rest of us deadwood player shoot in and they are there cunducting themselves in the same way the rest of the yahoos are for chump change, how do you suggest there be a line in the sand?
When was the last time you saw Michael Jordan down the ghetto hustling one on one with the locals? Or when have you saw the Williams sisters over on the highschool courts playing deadwood players for $20 a serve? How about Tiger Woods hustling down at the municipal course for $5 a hole?
So, yes there is most definately a division between pros and deadwoods. Just NOT in pool.
And that is because of the way we as players conduct ourselves and our sport.

JoeyInCali
07-22-2016, 12:16 PM
I'll be blunt .
If one of the participants are not your friend or relative or someone you really know, his action is none of your business.
And even if he was your friend, you might get in trouble in trying to save him.
And that might not be even coming from the people hustling him. HE might be the trouble to you. I've been on that end of the stick . I saw a friend lose thousands and I told him he needed to quit on this guy and get back to him month later after he's improved. He went nuts on me telling me I belittled his game . A year or two later, he was down some 100K to another person whom I told him not to play unless he got a spot. Would not listen. Then he came back to me asking for help how he would recover his money. :rolleyes:

People's action at the pool hall is really not your business unless YOU ARE PART OF IT. Sooner or later, one will learn a lesson about this.

I've seen matches where the sucker needed a few balls or games to even have a chance to win a set . I said nothing. Even if the guy hustling is notorious to be an action knocker himself . I know one person threatened to shoot him for being an action knocker at Hard Times. But, that time when he was robbing a poor kid, nobody said nothing .

realkingcobra
07-22-2016, 03:29 PM
When you can encounter the "PROs" in the very same pool rooms the rest of us deadwood player shoot in and they are there cunducting themselves in the same way the rest of the yahoos are for chump change, how do you suggest there be a line in the sand?
When was the last time you saw Michael Jordan down the ghetto hustling one on one with the locals? Or when have you saw the Williams sisters over on the highschool courts playing deadwood players for $20 a serve? How about Tiger Woods hustling down at the municipal course for $5 a hole?
So, yes there is most definately a division between pros and deadwoods. Just NOT in pool.
And that is because of the way we as players conduct ourselves and our sport.

Let me ask you something if you think you're so damn smart to throw around the names of Pro's from other sports as if that gives your bullshit some kin of validation. Did basketball start out with PRO'S? Did baseball start out with PRO'S? Did golf start out with PRO'S? How about football, did that start out with PRO'S? YOU and the mentality of everyone like you, by the millions are the set back to pool becoming a real sport. Pool is older than all the sports Isited above, and yet.....400+ years later, is still so unorganized it's sickening, and it's all because of property like you, because you refuse to show this sport the respect it deserves.....and get the hell out of the way and let there be some organization brought forth that DOES separate players by skill level so that there's no doubt that if someone is called a Pro, it's because they've earned that right! Not to be mistaken by someone who just simply says....I play at Pro level....because you can beat everyone at your local bar. When someone asks, what does it take to be a Professional pool player....instead of 35 pages of bullshit answers and ideas, the answer would be as simple as....show the world you have more skills that the top 128 players in the world currently holding the rank of "PRO" status!!!! That my dear boy is what draws the line between SEMI-PRO....and "PRO"....leaving the rest of the worlds players in the sandbox with the rest of us "AMATEURS " THEN, AND OLNY THEN will this sport have a chance of gaining the sponsors it so richly deserves making PROFESSIONALS the money and endorsement deals they've earned, just like all other PROFESSIONAL SPORTS FIGURES!!!

BmoreMoney
07-22-2016, 03:36 PM
I have mentioned something similar one time. It was the perfect analogy here. That hardly amounts to "continuing to bring it up with you".

As for the rest, I think you are just playing dumb. There is no way anybody is really that dense. The "keep your mouth shut" mentality from criminals is 99% precisely so they can get away with their activity and escape justice. You are obviously incredibly naive and you damn sure aren't remotely close to being street smart like you think you are.

Actually, in just one thread alone, you mentioned it to me 3 or 4 times - at least. If you care to make a wager on that that is worth my time I'll look it up. I know your type, shooting dice on the corner is wrong because..... drinking a beer on your sidewalk I wrong because..... doing this or doing that is wrong because.....I get it. But remember what forum your on and try to understand while maybe it's not your thing it's a lot of others and you have NO RIGHT to pass judgement- EVER even as much as you think you can. Btw, I see in your most recent blathering you said DUDE, BRO.

realkingcobra
07-22-2016, 03:47 PM
When you can encounter the "PROs" in the very same pool rooms the rest of us deadwood player shoot in and they are there cunducting themselves in the same way the rest of the yahoos are for chump change, how do you suggest there be a line in the sand?
When was the last time you saw Michael Jordan down the ghetto hustling one on one with the locals? Or when have you saw the Williams sisters over on the highschool courts playing deadwood players for $20 a serve? How about Tiger Woods hustling down at the municipal course for $5 a hole?
So, yes there is most definately a division between pros and deadwoods. Just NOT in pool.
And that is because of the way we as players conduct ourselves and our sport.
Because Golf and all the other sports figures people like you try to compare pool to as "why don't pool players get paid as much as so anD so....look at the millions they make!!!

It's because no one of the sports you could ever mention....carries with them, on the payrole....a bunch of sniveling, whining, cry babies that INSIST that the rules of tournaments be changel as to give YA'LL a chance to play with the "PRO'S " or you none of you will pay your entry fees to get into pool tournament....because you all know the majority of the prize money is made up of your stupid entry fees!!!



Only the top 125 players, as ranked by tournament winnings, get to keep their magic “tour card,” which allows them to enter any of the PGA Tour's official events. This is the preeminent men's golf tour in the U.S.—and arguably the world.Feb 8, 2012

realkingcobra
07-22-2016, 03:51 PM
When you can encounter the "PROs" in the very same pool rooms the rest of us deadwood player shoot in and they are there cunducting themselves in the same way the rest of the yahoos are for chump change, how do you suggest there be a line in the sand?
When was the last time you saw Michael Jordan down the ghetto hustling one on one with the locals? Or when have you saw the Williams sisters over on the highschool courts playing deadwood players for $20 a serve? How about Tiger Woods hustling down at the municipal course for $5 a hole?
So, yes there is most definately a division between pros and deadwoods. Just NOT in pool.
And that is because of the way we as players conduct ourselves and our sport.

And, just like the OP of this, he'd rather blame the pockets on his table being to tight, or something wrong with them which is why he misses shots....rather than admit his game sucks and he don't want to put in the time and effort to improve and stop missing those shots!!!!!

realkingcobra
07-22-2016, 04:56 PM
When you can encounter the "PROs" in the very same pool rooms the rest of us deadwood player shoot in and they are there cunducting themselves in the same way the rest of the yahoos are for chump change, how do you suggest there be a line in the sand?
When was the last time you saw Michael Jordan down the ghetto hustling one on one with the locals? Or when have you saw the Williams sisters over on the highschool courts playing deadwood players for $20 a serve? How about Tiger Woods hustling down at the municipal course for $5 a hole?
So, yes there is most definately a division between pros and deadwoods. Just NOT in pool.
And that is because of the way we as players conduct ourselves and our sport.

I guess you didn't know Michael Jordan likes to gamble playing Golf for money....Stick that.in your pipe and smoke it. When you thow examples of people holier-than-thou as if it brings you some kind of credibility.....know something about them first!!!

mike8or9
07-22-2016, 05:21 PM
For the most part, bottom line is- " You can't get robbed in a poolroom unless you're
looking to rob somebody yourself ".

MikieG
07-22-2016, 09:14 PM
The reason these other atheletes make more money is because the public is actually interested in investing into their sport. Not so with pool. We are viewed as white trash.
I think i mentioned that Michael Jordan wouldnt be cought dead shooting freethrows with you for pennys a shot. You are right. He dont NEED the money. Why is that? Oh thats right...people actually respect his talent and have showed it with real earnings!
If he gambles elsewhere on other things has nothing to do with my point.
Bottom line, pool will NEVER EVER be accepted by the main stream public because of the trashy reputation we have given it. Sad huh. Want that to change? Stop being dirt bags.

If you feel a need to prove how good you are, put up a fee and play in a tournament or league. Heads up contest, best man wins. Instead, we slink around watching and looking for lesser players and conceal our skill level to clean out their pockets, then act as though we did something. I grew out of that a couple decades ago. My integrity is worth more than their $5, $50, or $500 a rack.
Plus, i dont need the money. I have a real job.

realkingcobra
07-22-2016, 11:07 PM
The reason these other atheletes make more money is because the public is actually interested in investing into their sport. Not so with pool. We are viewed as white trash.
I think i mentioned that Michael Jordan wouldnt be cought dead shooting freethrows with you for pennys a shot. You are right. He dont NEED the money. Why is that? Oh thats right...people actually respect his talent and have showed it with real earnings!
If he gambles elsewhere on other things has nothing to do with my point.
Bottom line, pool will NEVER EVER be accepted by the main stream public because of the trashy reputation we have given it. Sad huh. Want that to change? Stop being dirt bags.

If you feel a need to prove how good you are, put up a fee and play in a tournament or league. Heads up contest, best man wins. Instead, we slink around watching and looking for lesser players and conceal our skill level to clean out their pockets, then act as though we did something. I grew out of that a couple decades ago. My integrity is worth more than their $5, $50, or $500 a rack.
Plus, i dont need the money. I have a real job.

Pool has never been main stream because there's way to many league players that want to be included in that main stream viewing th as t don't deserve to be there, like you.

realkingcobra
07-22-2016, 11:10 PM
For the most part, bottom line is- " You can't get robbed in a poolroom unless you're
looking to rob somebody yourself ".

Robbed? No one gets robbed playing pool for money because no one is forced to play pool for money....that's a personal choice to gamble....don't you frigging get it....or are you NOT intelligent enough to accept those facts?

erhino41
07-23-2016, 12:08 AM
RKC,

I agree with you on the topic being discussed in the original post, but your arguments about why "Pro" pool is where it is at make no sense. People filling out tournament brackets and league players are somehow standing in the way of "Pro" pool? How does that even make sense? None of us amateur players are standing in the way of higher powers organizing for the greater good of pool. How the hell could we even do that? It has nothing to do with the common man, whether or not someone tries to organize a "Pro" tour. With out people who have delusions of grandeur, tournament purses would be smaller. Without league players you have no one to sell your product to.

I can understand the argument that having lesser players in big events can blur the public image of how good the "Pro's" are in comparison to the average joe. When someone in a "Pro" tournament plays like an average joe, an uninitiated individual will say "wow these pro's aren't very good!". However, they are not stealing spots from more qualified players. If they weren't there the spot would be empty and the purse would be smaller. A smaller purse means less incentive for the "pros" to show and so on and so forth. So the people who you think are somehow standing in the way of pool, are absolutely vital to the game as it stands now. There is something wrong with "Pro" pool and it is not the things you rambled on about.

MikieG
07-23-2016, 06:26 AM
Erhino is spot on. This cobra guy has way too much time on his hands judging from how many posts he has made. He obviousely needs the $5 so a job might be out of his reality at the moment. I dont know this guy so i wont try to insult him as he has attempted to do to me.
If you love the game and want to see it flourish, bring some honor to it by cleaning up its rep. Dont set in the poolhall looking at other tables for easy money. Thats just petty.
This is JUST a game, it shouldnt define who we are.
If you plan to make statements about me, you should at least know something about me. The fact that you said things you know nothing about leads me to wonder just how good a hustler you really are as you dont seem too bright.
Facts..
1 I cant stand smoke or scummy people
2 Bars are not my scene, so i guess your assumption i am some weak league player should league player is now in question.
3 Lastly, i play MY game every game. If i am going to run out on you, im going to just do it. I have no reason to disguise my skill level. I play because i love the game. I dont need your $5.

Moral of the story is, folks agree to gamble. Yes. But noone would gamble with a guy that is known to be far more skilled. That is unless the shark has decietfully lead the fish to believe otherwise.
Because this is woven into the fabric of pool, our game will never go beyond what ever little hole you play in.
Hell, even Poker is now global now. Why is that? Because its heads up. No deciet. You either win or loose. Bluffing is part of the game.

realkingcobra
07-23-2016, 06:45 AM
Erhino is spot on. This cobra guy has way too much time on his hands judging from how many posts he has made. He obviousely needs the $5 so a job might be out of his reality at the moment. I dont know this guy so i wont try to insult him as he has attempted to do to me.
If you love the game and want to see it flourish, bring some honor to it by cleaning up its rep. Dont set in the poolhall looking at other tables for easy money. Thats just petty.
This is JUST a game, it shouldnt define who we are.
If you plan to make statements about me, you should at least know something about me. The fact that you said things you know nothing about leads me to wonder just how good a hustler you really are as you dont seem too bright.
Facts..
1 I cant stand smoke or scummy people
2 Bars are not my scene, so i guess your assumption i am some weak league player should league player is now in question.
3 Lastly, i play MY game every game. If i am going to run out on you, im going to just do it. I have no reason to disguise my skill level. I play because i love the game. I dont need your $5.

Moral of the story is, folks agree to gamble. Yes. But noone would gamble with a guy that is known to be far more skilled. That is unless the shark has decietfully lead the fish to believe otherwise.
Because this is woven into the fabric of pool, our game will never go beyond what ever little hole you play in.
Hell, even Poker is now global now. Why is that? Because its heads up. No deciet. You either win or loose. Bluffing is part of the game.

Lots of players pay to play in the US open 9ball championship, many with NO chance of winning a dime.....why is that, if not to have the chance to say they played so an so? Do you actually think I'm a $5 player...LOL....I've had the same job for the last 33 years, how long have you had yours?

realkingcobra
07-23-2016, 06:58 AM
Erhino is spot on. This cobra guy has way too much time on his hands judging from how many posts he has made. He obviousely needs the $5 so a job might be out of his reality at the moment. I dont know this guy so i wont try to insult him as he has attempted to do to me.
If you love the game and want to see it flourish, bring some honor to it by cleaning up its rep. Dont set in the poolhall looking at other tables for easy money. Thats just petty.
This is JUST a game, it shouldnt define who we are.
If you plan to make statements about me, you should at least know something about me. The fact that you said things you know nothing about leads me to wonder just how good a hustler you really are as you dont seem too bright.
Facts..
1 I cant stand smoke or scummy people
2 Bars are not my scene, so i guess your assumption i am some weak league player should league player is now in question.
3 Lastly, i play MY game every game. If i am going to run out on you, im going to just do it. I have no reason to disguise my skill level. I play because i love the game. I dont need your $5.

Moral of the story is, folks agree to gamble. Yes. But noone would gamble with a guy that is known to be far more skilled. That is unless the shark has decietfully lead the fish to believe otherwise.
Because this is woven into the fabric of pool, our game will never go beyond what ever little hole you play in.
Hell, even Poker is now global now. Why is that? Because its heads up. No deciet. You either win or loose. Bluffing is part of the game.

I just looked at all your posts.....you USE to be a cue maker...LMAO....that better than hustling someone on a pool table for money....LMAO There's a lot of use to be's surrounding this game!

MikieG
07-23-2016, 09:09 AM
Dude, seriousely. Just go back to your hole. There are lots of cuemakers. And like pro players, there are lots of folks realized there is no real money in this, we just do it for the love of the game. The fact that you have had the same job for 33 years tells us that you yourself are not good enuf to support yourself on the table. It also tells us that by this ongoing defense of hustling lesser and unsuspecting players for a dollar, your chosen career might not be all that profitable either.
So lets just agree to disagree. A few of us will work to spread billiards by teaching and promoting it in a positive way. While the rest of you will suck the life out of these new players one dollar at a time until they take up crocheting and leave spreading a bad message about our sport. Hows that? Wonderful life's achievement sir!
You are so worked up about these facts that you cant even organize your attacks into a single readable post.
Are you that no toothed guy the news always interviews after the tornado takes out the trailer park?
You said yours, i said mine. Now find someone to rob and move on.

realkingcobra
07-23-2016, 09:38 AM
Dude, seriousely. Just go back to your hole. There are lots of cuemakers. And like pro players, there are lots of folks realized there is no real money in this, we just do it for the love of the game. The fact that you have had the same job for 33 years tells us that you yourself are not good enuf to support yourself on the table. It also tells us that by this ongoing defense of hustling lesser and unsuspecting players for a dollar, your chosen career might not be all that profitable either.
So lets just agree to disagree. A few of us will work to spread billiards by teaching and promoting it in a positive way. While the rest of you will suck the life out of these new players one dollar at a time until they take up crocheting and leave spreading a bad message about our sport. Hows that? Wonderful life's achievement sir!
You are so worked up about these facts that you cant even organize your attacks into a single readable post.
Are you that no toothed guy the news always interviews after the tornado takes out the trailer park?
You said yours, i said mine. Now find someone to rob and move on.

Yep, got me onna dem dar minimum wage jobs....LMAO

skins
07-23-2016, 11:01 AM
?.....The fact that you have had the same job for 33 years tells us that you yourself are not good enuf to support yourself on the table.....

Now that's funny right there...LOL.

If you only knew that indeed he DOES support himself on, in, and around "the table(s)"...:wink:

realkingcobra
07-23-2016, 12:24 PM
Now that's funny right there...LOL.

If you only knew that indeed he DOES support himself on, in, and around "the table(s)"...:wink:

Shhhhhhhh.....let him keep thinking he has me all figured out....LMAO

Lonestar_jim
07-23-2016, 12:44 PM
Yep, got me onna dem dar minimum wage jobs....LMAO
Put your tooth back in please when addressing this ler-ned forum.

realkingcobra
07-23-2016, 01:39 PM
Put your tooth back in please when addressing this ler-ned forum.

Ohhhh, alright......I'll see if I can find it....just because you asked nice :thumbup:

BmoreMoney
07-23-2016, 05:10 PM
These guys are the ones coming in the bar/ pool room ordering the water.

MikieG
07-23-2016, 09:29 PM
Skins, this is a thread about dishonesty. If your buddy makes a living on or around tables i would be willing to bet hes the guy that cleans up the tables between customers. Or some maintenance type. But true to the stereotype, he has insinuated he is a player/hustler.
To tell a guy youll do all the talking and he would be feeling what you are talking about confirms the cheap dime store pettyness.
For all we know the OP is 7 foot tall and a rock solid 400 pounds.
Yup. Pretty sure this guy sweeps felt and throws away empty beer cans. Its always the guy with 12,000 posts that tries to tell others how it is when its obvious he lives behind the keyboard.

THE MONTREALER
07-23-2016, 10:54 PM
[QUOTE=realkingcobra;5615651]Let me ask you something if you think you're so damn smart to throw around the names of Pro's from other sports as if that gives your bullshit some kin of validation. Did basketball start out with PRO'S? Did baseball start out with PRO'S? Did golf start out with PRO'S? How about football, did that start out with PRO'S? YOU and the mentality of everyone like you, by the millions are the set back to pool becoming a real sport. Pool is older than all the sports Isited above, and yet.....400+ years later, is still so unorganized it's sickening, and it's all because of property like you, because you refuse to show this sport the respect it deserves.....and get the hell out of the way and let there be some organization brought forth that DOES separate players by skill level so that there's no doubt that if someone is called a Pro, it's because they've earned that right! Not to be mistaken by someone who just simply says....I play at Pro level....because you can beat everyone at your local bar. When someone asks, what does it take to be a Professional pool player....instead of 35 pages of bullshit answers and ideas, the answer would be as simple as....show the world you have more skills that the top 128 players in the world currently holding the rank of "PRO" status!!!! That my dear boy is what draws the line between SEMI-PRO....and "PRO"....leaving the rest of the worlds players in the sandbox with the rest of us "AMATEURS " THEN, AND OLNY THEN will this sport have a chance of gaining the sponsors it so richly deserves making PROFESSIONALS the money and endorsement deals they've earned, just like all other PROFESSIONAL SPORTS FIGURES!!![/QUOTE

There is no money in POOL poor mans game the money is in
Snooker where the players make millions if they are good

realkingcobra
07-23-2016, 11:38 PM
[QUOTE=realkingcobra;5615651]Let me ask you something if you think you're so damn smart to throw around the names of Pro's from other sports as if that gives your bullshit some kin of validation. Did basketball start out with PRO'S? Did baseball start out with PRO'S? Did golf start out with PRO'S? How about football, did that start out with PRO'S? YOU and the mentality of everyone like you, by the millions are the set back to pool becoming a real sport. Pool is older than all the sports Isited above, and yet.....400+ years later, is still so unorganized it's sickening, and it's all because of property like you, because you refuse to show this sport the respect it deserves.....and get the hell out of the way and let there be some organization brought forth that DOES separate players by skill level so that there's no doubt that if someone is called a Pro, it's because they've earned that right! Not to be mistaken by someone who just simply says....I play at Pro level....because you can beat everyone at your local bar. When someone asks, what does it take to be a Professional pool player....instead of 35 pages of bullshit answers and ideas, the answer would be as simple as....show the world you have more skills that the top 128 players in the world currently holding the rank of "PRO" status!!!! That my dear boy is what draws the line between SEMI-PRO....and "PRO"....leaving the rest of the worlds players in the sandbox with the rest of us "AMATEURS " THEN, AND OLNY THEN will this sport have a chance of gaining the sponsors it so richly deserves making PROFESSIONALS the money and endorsement deals they've earned, just like all other PROFESSIONAL SPORTS FIGURES!!![/QUOTE

There is no money in POOL poor mans game the money is in
Snooker where the players make millions if they are good
And it takes about 3 months to win the World Snooker Championship unlike pool which is 3 days for a world 10 ball tournament

realkingcobra
07-24-2016, 02:13 AM
Skins, this is a thread about dishonesty. If your buddy makes a living on or around tables i would be willing to bet hes the guy that cleans up the tables between customers. Or some maintenance type. But true to the stereotype, he has insinuated he is a player/hustler.
To tell a guy youll do all the talking and he would be feeling what you are talking about confirms the cheap dime store pettyness.
For all we know the OP is 7 foot tall and a rock solid 400 pounds.
Yup. Pretty sure this guy sweeps felt and throws away empty beer cans. Its always the guy with 12,000 posts that tries to tell others how it is when its obvious he lives behind the keyboard.

Now that you know what I do for a living, what is it you do agai for a job?

skins
07-24-2016, 02:24 AM
Skins, this is a thread about dishonesty. If your buddy makes a living on or around tables i would be willing to bet hes the guy that cleans up the tables between customers. Or some maintenance type. But true to the stereotype, he has insinuated he is a player/hustler.
To tell a guy youll do all the talking and he would be feeling what you are talking about confirms the cheap dime store pettyness.
For all we know the OP is 7 foot tall and a rock solid 400 pounds.
Yup. Pretty sure this guy sweeps felt and throws away empty beer cans. Its always the guy with 12,000 posts that tries to tell others how it is when its obvious he lives behind the keyboard.

Never said he was my "buddy".. I never met the man "Mike" but I do know of him and what I will say is I'b bet dollars to dougnuts the guy knows more and has a feel for more about every aspect of the game than you ever will BECAUSE of his last 33 years. Now if you took me up on that bet, THAT could turn out to be the true hustle..;)

jasonlaus
07-24-2016, 03:47 AM
Skins, this is a thread about dishonesty. If your buddy makes a living on or around tables i would be willing to bet hes the guy that cleans up the tables between customers. Or some maintenance type. But true to the stereotype, he has insinuated he is a player/hustler.
To tell a guy youll do all the talking and he would be feeling what you are talking about confirms the cheap dime store pettyness.
For all we know the OP is 7 foot tall and a rock solid 400 pounds.
Yup. Pretty sure this guy sweeps felt and throws away empty beer cans. Its always the guy with 12,000 posts that tries to tell others how it is when its obvious he lives behind the keyboard.

Dont know about the OP, but RKC(from what i hear) is about that size - like a gorilla lol.
You're gonna feel pretty stupid when you fiqure out what he does......I think you already know

MikieG
07-24-2016, 05:19 AM
Think i hit it on the head. I retired from a job where i had to profile stupid people. I got pretty good at it. Now i can spot em when i walk into the room.
Still wouldnt make it right for me to use that talent to take advantage of them.
Fellas, this debate has ran its course. Im bored.

jasonlaus
07-24-2016, 06:47 AM
Think i hit it on the head. I retired from a job where i had to profile stupid people. I got pretty good at it. Now i can spot em when i walk into the room.
Still wouldnt make it right for me to use that talent to take advantage of them.
Fellas, this debate has ran its course. Im bored.

Bye bye then

BmoreMoney
07-24-2016, 07:20 AM
Bye bye then

J, I'm fairly certain I can do without this BOZO too!!!!!!!

Henry W
07-24-2016, 08:02 AM
This idea that pool does not do well with the general public because of pool hustlers and its reputation is nonsense. America loves hustlers it is the result of capitalism. We just had the banks and wall street rob us of trillions of dollars in a gigantic hustle. We have one of the greatest hustlers of all time about to be elected president. I saw Fats in person and Trump sounds just like him. All of these giant corporations are spending millions rigging the system in their favor. We are awash in hustlers they are everywhere seeking to deceive and make money. The whole financial system is corrupt. The only thing that keeps it in line at all are regulations. It is no coincidence that pool had its greatest resurgence after the movie the "Hustler" came out.
Pool is not popular because it is boring to watch. I have been playing pool for 50 years and I can't stand to watch rotation pool because nothing ever happens but near perfection. No great shots, no banks, no combinations, no caroms just near perfect shot making and position play, one shot the break or luck determines the winner on top of all that you have to fade all the safety's . One Pocket is a much more entertaining game and that is why these PPV streams are moving to One Pocket. Also they are basically high stake match ups two pool hustlers playing for high stakes playing a game invented by hustlers. The recent match between Chohan and Bustamonte was the best pool matchs I have ever watched on a stream. No America loves hustlers what we hate is boring. I have to think pool went off the rails when some genius changed the rules to Texas Express. Stop worrying about the so called pool hustlers and focus on how to bring some excitement to the game. I just saw a great one pocket match and one player made a great shot to win the game and showed his excitement and the other player took it as an insult. The players are determined to keep the game boring. Anyone who thinks they are going to fix pool by going around exposing individual hustlers is out of touch with reality

realkingcobra
07-24-2016, 01:56 PM
Think i hit it on the head. I retired from a job where i had to profile stupid people. I got pretty good at it. Now i can spot em when i walk into the room.
Still wouldnt make it right for me to use that talent to take advantage of them.
Fellas, this debate has ran its course. Im bored.

I think ol MikieGoldfish....found out what I do for a living, and about how wrong he was about me...LMAO

Rockin' Robin
07-24-2016, 02:51 PM
Cool.....I have been labeled a genius.....again.

ribdoner
07-24-2016, 03:01 PM
So last night this room's regular, guy A, who can sort of play a little bit is playing this guy B for $50 a game. Guy B is down $650 already when I get there. This is really late at night. The room is packed. Guy B can't play. He's spinning the ball here and there but struggling with simple long shots. Guy B is trying so hard and keeps saying he's gonna win his money back, keeps trying. It was really hard to watch for some reason. Totally different speeds. Guy B definitely wasn't hustling, that was his actual speed. They were playing without a handicap - guy B had zero chance but didn't realize it. Finally I decided to step in and stop the bleeding. ( I thought guy B's ego just didn't know how to throw in the towel. I felt really bad for the guy ).

Guy A had his student there hanging out. So I dragged the student to another table and raced him to 2. I "lost" both games. Then I go back to the main table and start whining - I wanna get in! please race me to 5 for 500! I'm gonna need some weight though. To my shock guy A without negotiating just straight up offers me 3 games on the wire in a race to 5 ( he already knew his student "beat" me ). Wow. What an idiot. ( I'm nowhere near pro speed but significantly better than both guy A and guy B. Unfortunately he only wanted to race for a 100 since he didn't know me. Fine. I wasn't looking for action, I hate gambling - just wanted to stop the bleeding. Guy B lets us race on his table, I easily beat guy A. Take my 100. Guy A says next time we play without handicap. I go sure. Then the idiot guy B just can't wait to get back to the table. He wants to keep playing guy A!! What an idiot. That was his chance to say he's tired. Did you just not witness a guy on a totally different level than you? What are you doing. go home. ( I didn't say that ). I went home. They kept playing. I'm guessing guy B ended up dropping a few thousand.


WHERE and when did this happen?

CrownCityCorey
07-24-2016, 04:06 PM
mustardeer
in the old days you would be broken in pieces to get into someone elses game
if you are not involved its none of your business
just sayin..:D

Amen.............................................

commswatch
07-24-2016, 06:02 PM
mustardeer
in the old days you would be broken in pieces to get into someone elses game
if you are not involved its none of your business
just sayin..:D

True enough! I would never try to step in on someone elses action unless I knew them well.

And some more or less stranger stepping in on mine? the rules change.