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ZeroSkylineX
07-19-2016, 07:25 PM
Everyone knows Tom Hay's infamous line of Ultraskin tips. They're layered, cheap and play amazing. And by cheap, I mean you can buy 10 of his tips for the price of 1 Kamui tip.

Recently I saw Tom post on his Facebook page about his new line of tips called Simplicity In Billiards (SIB Tips). The purpose of this new line of tips is to use brown leather (light green according to Tom) tips and that they're made to play as close as possible to the 1990's Moori tips. Seems very interesting, I'm definitely going to give this a try. From my experience, brown tips tend to hold chalk significantly better (eg: G2 and Kamui Brown). I'm also hoping Tom can maybe provide the same or similar deal to his Ultraskin tips.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272311118555

Tramp Steamer
07-19-2016, 07:53 PM
Going to try one myself. I always did like the way an old Moori played, sometimes.
And, for you folks out there who have never used an Ultraskin cue tip, don't let Zero's use of the word cheap fool you. Tom's tips are all high quality at a reasonable price. With emphasis on the high quality.
Save me a couple of mediums, Tom. :smile:

ROB.M
07-19-2016, 08:49 PM
I've been wondering when these was going be released.
Thanks tom, sounds like you've been feeling better.


Thanks again.

Rob.M

Fast Lenny
07-19-2016, 08:52 PM
I am a big fan of the Ultraskin tips. My only gripe is when I use the medium black tip that it mushrooms way too easily and I have to have it fixed up. I think my last one I had to have it done twice. They play great though, just wish they didn't mushroom so easily.

The Renfro
07-19-2016, 09:33 PM
Will be on the look out to pick a few up for testing... I have test numbers for compression, Hardness and COR on the original Moori M thanks to Royce (RIP) and Lomax....

Maybe the new ones will at least be marked with country of origin per FTC requirements...

SJDinPHX
07-19-2016, 09:43 PM
I am a big fan of the Ultraskin tips. My only gripe is when I use the medium black tip that it mushrooms way too easily and I have to have it fixed up. I think my last one I had to have it done twice. They play great though, just wish they didn't mushroom so easily.

Don't worry Lendon..I'm sure, after you have your corrective thumb surgery, you will be able to see it was actually your thumb that was mushrooming! ;) :rolleyes: :D

PS..Hope its not too late for our wager on Bustie and Chohan? :thumbup:

Bank it
07-20-2016, 01:07 AM
Will be on the look out to pick a few up for testing... I have test numbers for compression, Hardness and COR on the original Moori M thanks to Royce (RIP) and Lomax....



Maybe the new ones will at least be marked with country of origin per FTC requirements...



Give it a rest Chris, it only makes you look small when you make posts like this.

Woofresh
07-20-2016, 04:48 AM
ultraskins way overrated imo

Tramp Steamer
07-20-2016, 07:50 AM
ultraskins way overrated imo


Woofy, I play One Pocket with a guy who miss cues several times a session. He'll blame the tip, the chalk, the humidity, the waitress with too short, shorts. Everything except his stroke which is as screwed up as Hogan's goat.
Are you like that guy? :)

Woofresh
07-20-2016, 07:53 AM
Woofy, I play One Pocket with a guy who miss cues several times a session. He'll blame the tip, the chalk, the humidity, the waitress with too short, shorts. Everything except his stroke which is as screwed up as Hogan's goat.
Are you like that guy? :)
if I was I'd be saying all tips suck... but I'm not.... we're talking ultraskins... try to keep up

Tramp Steamer
07-20-2016, 07:59 AM
if I was I'd be saying all tips suck... but I'm not.... we're talking ultraskins... try to keep up


Hey, I'm pedaling as fast as I can.
Let's see, you say Ultraskins suck, but you don't give any reasons why. So what then are the rest of us to assume?
Remember, Woof. Ninety-nine percent of all plane crashes are caused by pilot error.

Woofresh
07-20-2016, 08:03 AM
Hey, I'm pedaling as fast as I can.
Let's see, you say Ultraskins suck, but you don't give any reasons why. So what then are the rest of us to assume?
Remember, Woof. Ninety-nine percent of all plane crashes are caused by pilot error.
the price is the only thing going for them... but I still would never buy one again... they mushroom just like kamui... they dry out pretty quick too...

if you like them... then good luck to you...

john coloccia
07-20-2016, 08:44 AM
the price is the only thing going for them... but I still would never buy one again... they mushroom just like kamui... they dry out pretty quick too...

if you like them... then good luck to you...

Mine mushroom slightly after playing for a couple of days. I trim them and they never mushroom again. I'm voting pilot error too. Best layered tips I've played, and I've tried most.

bbb
07-20-2016, 09:14 AM
Woofy, I play One Pocket with a guy who miss cues several times a session. He'll blame the tip, the chalk, the humidity, the waitress with too short, shorts. Everything except his stroke which is as screwed up as Hogan's goat.
Are you like that guy? :)
you learn something every day ....thanks tramp......:thumbup:
hogan's goat
The phrase like Hoganís goat refers to something that is faulty, messed up, or stinks like a goat. The phrase is a reference to R.F. Outcaultís seminal newspaper comic Hoganís Alley, which debuted in 1895.

saint1
07-20-2016, 09:22 AM
Mine mushroom slightly after playing for a couple of days. I trim them and they never mushroom again. I'm voting pilot error too. Best layered tips I've played, and I've tried most.

Agreed, after buying and installing over a hundred I think they are great. I never have to shape, trim, or touch the ones on my personal cues. Sometimes just 1 time after installing as mentioned above but that is true for most all tips.

Tramp Steamer
07-20-2016, 10:54 AM
you learn something every day ....thanks tramp......:thumbup:
hogan's goat
The phrase like Hoganís goat refers to something that is faulty, messed up, or stinks like a goat. The phrase is a reference to R.F. Outcaultís seminal newspaper comic Hoganís Alley, which debuted in 1895.

Right back at you, triple b. :smile:

Tramp Steamer
07-20-2016, 11:04 AM
Mine mushroom slightly after playing for a couple of days. I trim them and they never mushroom again. I'm voting pilot error too. Best layered tips I've played, and I've tried most.

Well put, John. Back in the day customers would ask me about this very same thing. I would tell them not to worry about it, the tip was only "settling in". It would only take a couple of minutes to correct, and off they'd go, never to heard from until the next tip.
By-the-way, Ultraskins, or any other layered tip for that matter, doesn't mushroom in the sense that a single layered tip does. It's more of a flair, and usually very little at that. :)

TomHay
07-21-2016, 10:56 AM
ultraskins way overrated imo

Been down and out a little lately, no biggie just back and age

I can appreciate someone not liking or caring for my tips. If the feel and hit was 100% perfect for all players I would be the only place to shop but it is impossible to meet everyones needs.

On drying out I am soory, that just is not happening. I have an original medium and original soft that have sat exposed on a window sill that gets the most sun light during a Florida day for close to 5, 6 years.

If my tips agree with you and your customers great, buy them. If they don't simply do not buy them. If you buy them and they don't fit your needs, in the USA, send them back, happy to refund.

I try to offer consistent quality products with a resonable price and fairly fast delivery.

I sometimes feel my low pricing makes people mad. I can't help that, I think more about my customers that the price makes happy. :)

Mikey Town
07-21-2016, 12:05 PM
Been down and out a little lately, no biggie just back and age

I can appreciate someone not liking or caring for my tips. If the feel and hit was 100% perfect for all players I would be the only place to shop but it is impossible to meet everyones needs.

On drying out I am soory, that just is not happening. I have an original medium and original soft that have sat exposed on a window sill that gets the most sun light during a Florida day for close to 5, 6 years.

If my tips agree with you and your customers great, buy them. If they don't simply do not buy them. If you buy them and they don't fit your needs, in the USA, send them back, happy to refund.

I try to offer consistent quality products with a resonable price and fairly fast delivery.

I sometimes feel my low pricing makes people mad. I can't help that, I think more about my customers that the price makes happy. :)

To each their own... I've played with a few UltraSkin tips and have been nothing but impressed. I also really like the Tiger Onyx tips, but know some people who can't stand them. Opinions are like... well... you know.

How would you compare the playability of the SIB tips to your current UltraSkins, as it pertains to firmness, resistance to mushrooming and how they hold chalk?


Cheers,

Mike

jalapus logan
07-21-2016, 01:18 PM
Great tips, great price. What's not to like???

TomHay
07-21-2016, 03:07 PM
Mike,

While cutting on a lathe you will notice that the cut is very clean and becomes like a strand. The layers are pretty tight and barely show a glue line. Will they Mushroom at all? Sure, not horrible but the hardest of this series is a medium so yes a little mushrooming can be expected. The sound of hit should be pleaseing as it makes very little noise. Holds chalk very well but I can't tell you how often between chalking so chalks free,use it. On the playability, it they play well, good grip but as the Kamui always felt different from the Kamui so will the SIB differ from the UltraSkin.

You will not find any writing on my part that states it hits exactly like an old Moorri, strictly that it is more fore the people that like that Type hit.

You will be seeing many reviews poping up probably quickly as a LOT have been paid for and shipped in the last couple of days and to me I listen more to what a majority of John Q Public says as real installers and players than any make believe test taken from a catagory to try to fit around a Cue Tip. I hope it is well recieved but have not spent a dime that has come in on them yet in the unlikely event I have to return a lot of money.

To each their own... I've played with a few UltraSkin tips and have been nothing but impressed. I also really like the Tiger Onyx tips, but know some people who can't stand them. Opinions are like... well... you know.

How would you compare the playability of the SIB tips to your current UltraSkins, as it pertains to firmness, resistance to mushrooming and how they hold chalk?


Cheers,

Mike

StrokeofLuck
07-21-2016, 05:06 PM
I bought a cue that came with one of your mediums and played it down to probably the thickness of a nickel. I thought it was a great tip!

Palmetto cue
07-21-2016, 06:29 PM
Tom, how long have you had these new tips out? Go on vacation for while and yikes!
I'll be ordering some this week to try out for sure! Glad you are feeling better!
Mikey

TomHay
07-21-2016, 06:36 PM
Well, three years in the works enough to satisfy me, was taking a test drive spin on Ebay before season to get different level players feed back. I figure with as many out there on the way the feed back should be coming this weekend or a bit after. Hopefully they will be liked.

Tm, how long have you had these new tips out? Go on vacation for while and yikes!
I'll be ordering some this week to try out for sure! Glad you are feeling better!
Mikey

ZeroSkylineX
07-21-2016, 07:24 PM
Hey Tom, any special prices for your AZmembers for your SIB Tips like your Ultraskin tips? Also, do you have any intention of releasing a hard/heavy hitter density SIB tip?

gregnice37
07-22-2016, 01:33 AM
Hey Tom, i ordered 10 on ebay as i love the Ultraskins, so felt the need to try these out as well. Cant beat the price.

TomHay
07-22-2016, 05:56 AM
Please bare with me a little on that. I wanted to get feedback during the off season and also your not dealing with the sharpest knife in the drawer, I am trying to figure out how to divorce them enough on ordering where I don't slip up and send the wrong tip. One of my thoughts for future is maybe like a A B or C?


Hey Tom, any special prices for your AZmembers for your SIB Tips like your Ultraskin tips? Also, do you have any intention of releasing a hard/heavy hitter density SIB tip?

ArizonaPete
07-22-2016, 06:00 AM
Tom, I understand the back and age. I'm 82 now and the back has progressively worsened over the past 4 years. The "Golden Years" ain't what they used to be. I have UltraSkins on two of my cues and I like the way they play. Just a trace of mushrooming on one and none on the other after almost 2 years. I think I'll try one of those multi-layers of yours. I usually play with a Moori soft. Love the feel. Good luck to you and hope the back improves.

TomHay
07-22-2016, 06:25 AM
Tom, I understand the back and age. I'm 82 now and the back has progressively worsened over the past 4 years. The "Golden Years" ain't what they used to be. I have UltraSkins on two of my cues and I like the way they play. Just a trace of mushrooming on one and none on the other after almost 2 years. I think I'll try one of those multi-layers of yours. I usually play with a Moori soft. Love the feel. Good luck to you and hope the back improves.

Pete, 82,? your a miricale. I should not complain about my back so. I see a younger man with one leg or arm my sores become minute.

It is so great you are out enjoying the game.:thumbup2:

desi2960
07-22-2016, 01:05 PM
I have been using them as long as they been on the market. I use them on my personal cues, and all my playing buddies love them. I put them on most of the cues I build. I can't wait until the newer one are for sale. Tom, I'm 72 them damn aches and pains are mostly there forever. Dribeing helps ease them.

TomHay
07-22-2016, 01:15 PM
I have been using them as long as they been on the market. I use them on my personal cues, and all my playing buddies love them. I put them on most of the cues I build. I can't wait until the newer one are for sale. Tom, I'm 72 them damn aches and pains are mostly there forever. Dribeing helps ease them.

Hey bud,

Thanks for the nice words. It becomes an embarrasment issue sometimes more than pain. I have little to no cushions on my right side, took years of neglect to get them this way. I went to simply stand in a Pool Room last week and pulled a Tiger Woods, right to the ground. Have some options coming up in September, we shall see.
Thanks,
Tom

desi2960
07-22-2016, 01:20 PM
Drinking, not dribeing

john coloccia
07-22-2016, 01:48 PM
Drinking, not dribeing

Makes typing harder though, don't it? :p

john coloccia
07-22-2016, 01:50 PM
Incidentally, Tom, i just tried a Pro tip. I don't like soft tips, but I really don't mind this. It's not mushy, IMHO, but does definitely take a bit of speed off the ball. I'm liking it for straight pool. Feels like I can let my stroke out a bit without over hitting the cue ball.

I still like the medium best, but I'll leave this Pro on a while and see how it goes.

bdorman
07-22-2016, 02:13 PM
Unfortunately it will be a long time before I need to buy new tips from Mr. Hay.

I got 10 tips for $25 a couple of years ago (2 Soft, 3 Very Soft, 4 Pro Soft and 1 Really Hard). After two years I'm still on the first tip (play about 3 hours a day). Minor mushrooming that you'd have to hold a straight-edge up to the ferule to see; not worth trimming.

Colormegone2002
07-22-2016, 06:23 PM
I have found a tip I like and it happens to come at a great price as well. As long

as Mr. Hay keeps producing them, I'll keep buying them. I think I'll try a soft next.

Hope you get good news Tom

The Renfro
07-22-2016, 08:45 PM
Hi Tom since you are here can you confirm these tips are made by you in Florida? I keep running into people who think you told them you make them here in the states so clarification is in order....

RandyinHawaii
07-23-2016, 01:30 AM
Just put a medium on a Mezz Wx900. Initial impression is "very, very nice". I have also installed Pro and Soft and two other shafts. So far I like the medium best, but time will tell. More after I have played them for a while.

ROB.M
07-23-2016, 02:46 AM
Hi Tom since you are here can you confirm these tips are made by you in Florida? I keep running into people who think you told them you make them here in the states so clarification is in order....

-

He's got elfs working away at making cookies and layered leather cue tips...


Give it up chris.. Tips are like gasoline... Buy from and choose the grade you want....there is enough room for everyone to sell their leather tip products. I believe you are intentionally attacking ppl... Dont listen to the small talk.. It's just that- small talk. Don't believe everything you hear...
Everyone who has dealt with tom know he's a standup guy and stone cold as honest as Abe, he's not the guy that goes around telling story's about his competitors to belittle them to the eyes of the heavy consumers of the products.

What tom does is encourages consumers to try all the tips on the market and choose what works best for the user. If tom can't satisfy a end user needs and feels another product could be used that he don't offer but in the end it works for the customer and the customer is happy... That's what tom is about.. Making his customers happy to the best of his ability without saying a bad thing about anyone or competitors products and sometimes suggesting a product offered by another fellow in the business.





Rob.M

Tramp Steamer
07-23-2016, 05:21 AM
Hi Tom since you are here can you confirm these tips are made by you in Florida? I keep running into people who think you told them you make them here in the states so clarification is in order....

How about staying on your own side of the street.
If these tips were made in Lower Slabovia by one-armed, gay, illegal aliens, it would most certainly be of no concern to you, would it?

billiardthought
07-23-2016, 06:13 AM
Hi Tom since you are here can you confirm these tips are made by you in Florida? I keep running into people who think you told them you make them here in the states so clarification is in order....

I think I am going to order some ultra skins now.

TomHay
07-23-2016, 07:08 AM
Chris,

I have told everyone since my first post, the tips are made to my specifications, I do quality control and personaly back each tip.

No one has mentioned you or your tips in this thread. Are you somehow the Tip Police?

The quality I offer I do not believe has been an issue and the prices I offer them for has been more than well recieved.

I have seen your style both here and on Facebook. You seem to try to inflict some fear in others tips hoping yours will sell.

You tell very little about how your tips are made. I mean for all we know you are simply dunking Triangles or Le Pros into a mystery sauce. Where do you get your leather why is it Pre Domed?

Its a two way street my friend, you want info, you give info.

I am sorry to the other posters for this crude post of mine

I whole heartaly hope if you like Chris's Tips you buy them. And Chris, I hope you sell a thousand times the tips I do but ask that you let the other Players, Cue Makers and Cue Repair people use their own god given judgement without you jumping in threads and trying to show some sort of superiority by trying to find a way to down people to make yourself look good. That is like drinking Poison thinking the other person will die.

I wish you the very best and hope in the future you will let things go to integrity of seller, quality and service seller offers and reputation as in the end that is all that truly matters.

Thanks



QUOTE=The Renfro;5615923]Hi Tom since you are here can you confirm these tips are made by you in Florida? I keep running into people who think you told them you make them here in the states so clarification is in order....[/QUOTE]

john coloccia
07-23-2016, 08:02 AM
And Chris, I hope you sell a thousand times the tips I do

He's not making it easy on himself. It took multiple e-mails and a long time to get a response to a simple question (which he never actually answered, incidentally), the two medium tips he sent me were complete garbage (though the medium-hards were OK, is currently on one of my shafts and is actually a very nice tip, so good job there), and marketing via slamming the competition leaves a decidedly sour taste in my mouth. It's doubtful he'll get anymore of my business unless he cuts the crap and starts acting like a businessman. You generally seem to have a good product, Chris. There's no reason for this and it's probably hurting you more than helping.

The be fair, Billiard Warehouse DOES list your tip as an American made tip. I don't know that anyone else does, but they do. If that's not true, then you need to contact them and correct the error. Personally, I doubt most people care. It's not like there's a huge number of companies all making the exact same tip....you use what you like.

rjb1168
07-23-2016, 12:24 PM
Hi Tom since you are here can you confirm these tips are made by you in Florida? I keep running into people who think you told them you make them here in the states so clarification is in order....

I have tried your tip (it's a good tip) and have ordered Tom's new ones. I will put one on the day I receive it and give my feedback on the tip to Tom. Who cares where Tom's tips are made, you are making yourself look like a fool. So do yourself a favor and stop. Tom, I will send you a PM after I use it a couple weeks. My buddy has put on 100's of ultraskins and everyone loves them, his biggest seller.

Kimmo H.
07-23-2016, 12:55 PM
Thanks for the tip on the tips :wink:

Just ordered 10 and I cant wait to test them out :smile: Will post pics and thoughts on them after playing some with these.

cubswin
07-23-2016, 05:47 PM
Chris,

I have told everyone since my first post, the tips are made to my specifications, I do quality control and personaly back each tip.

No one has mentioned you or your tips in this thread. Are you somehow the Tip Police?

The quality I offer I do not believe has been an issue and the prices I offer them for has been more than well recieved.

I have seen your style both here and on Facebook. You seem to try to inflict some fear in others tips hoping yours will sell.

You tell very little about how your tips are made. I mean for all we know you are simply dunking Triangles or Le Pros into a mystery sauce. Where do you get your leather why is it Pre Domed?

Its a two way street my friend, you want info, you give info.

I am sorry to the other posters for this crude post of mine

I whole heartaly hope if you like Chris's Tips you buy them. And Chris, I hope you sell a thousand times the tips I do but ask that you let the other Players, Cue Makers and Cue Repair people use their own god given judgement without you jumping in threads and trying to show some sort of superiority by trying to find a way to down people to make yourself look good. That is like drinking Poison thinking the other person will die.

I wish you the very best and hope in the future you will let things go to integrity of seller, quality and service seller offers and reputation as in the end that is all that truly matters.

Thanks



Hi Tom since you are here can you confirm these tips are made by you in Florida? I keep running into people who think you told them you make them here in the states so clarification is in order....


Seems like a pretty good answer to me. I didn't have any plans to try one of Tom's tips, but after this little exchange thing I will give them a try. Sad to see someone jumping in a thread that isn't about their product, in hopes of somehow cause a controversy.

CBW
07-24-2016, 04:08 AM
Yeah I was considering on picking up some of Chris tips, but after this thread, I'm not interested in anything by him.

The Renfro
07-24-2016, 04:10 PM
Chris,

I have told everyone since my first post, the tips are made to my specifications, I do quality control and personaly back each tip.

No one has mentioned you or your tips in this thread. Are you somehow the Tip Police?

The quality I offer I do not believe has been an issue and the prices I offer them for has been more than well recieved.

I have seen your style both here and on Facebook. You seem to try to inflict some fear in others tips hoping yours will sell.

You tell very little about how your tips are made. I mean for all we know you are simply dunking Triangles or Le Pros into a mystery sauce. Where do you get your leather why is it Pre Domed?

Its a two way street my friend, you want info, you give info.

I am sorry to the other posters for this crude post of mine

I whole heartaly hope if you like Chris's Tips you buy them. And Chris, I hope you sell a thousand times the tips I do but ask that you let the other Players, Cue Makers and Cue Repair people use their own god given judgement without you jumping in threads and trying to show some sort of superiority by trying to find a way to down people to make yourself look good. That is like drinking Poison thinking the other person will die.

I wish you the very best and hope in the future you will let things go to integrity of seller, quality and service seller offers and reputation as in the end that is all that truly matters.

Thanks





Tom when you have told Meucci that you are making your tips here in the USA I will not sit quietly by while you talk about integrity and reputation.

Bob wanted a made in the USA tip for his cues and I was talking to them when you made your deal... When I called in I find out what was going on in their testing they had decided on another tip made here in the US and it was "yours"...

Now someone is lying... Either you told them what they told me or they lied about you saying it which makes no sense to me.....

If I am lying I expect to be sued for libel... I saved several communications and contacts just to be safe.....

As an importer you are REQUIRED by law to provide country of origin on your packaging. Not just IF you want to..

If I have to file complaints with the FTC I will happily do that.. By not putting anything on your products a consumer is suppose to be safe to assume they are domestic. If you have miss-represented where they are made which I have been told has been happening by people you have talked to that's a whole different complaint.

I have no issue competing with imports.. I recommend many... But the ones I recommend ALL say country of origin on them as is required...

benny-the-blade
07-24-2016, 04:24 PM
^^^^^^^^

Such a sad individual. Truly.

TomHay
07-24-2016, 04:35 PM
Tom when you have told Meucci that you are making your tips here in the USA I will not sit quietly by while you talk about integrity and reputation.

Bob wanted a made in the USA tip for his cues and I was talking to them when you made your deal... When I called in I find out what was going on in their testing they had decided on another tip made here in the US and it was "yours"...

Now someone is lying... Either you told them what they told me or they lied about you saying it which makes no sense to me.....

If I am lying I expect to be sued for libel... I saved several communications and contacts just to be safe.....

As an importer you are REQUIRED by law to provide country of origin on your packaging. Not just IF you want to..

If I have to file complaints with the FTC I will happily do that.. By not putting anything on your products a consumer is suppose to be safe to assume they are domestic. If you have miss-represented where they are made which I have been told has been happening by people you have talked to that's a whole different complaint.

I have no issue competing with imports.. I recommend many... But the ones I recommend ALL say country of origin on them as is required...

Chris, I hope this is not what this is all about. Meucii ordered some tips, got an email back he loved the tips and continual not to large to me orders.

There was no discussion, zero zip and I would gladly give you the account, as there is no money in it.

If you fel you must do something because its right in your heart, do it.

I can't believe this is about an account you were working for and I was not. You are being played Chris, don't let anyone make a fool of you.

Thanks,
Tom

Tramp Steamer
07-24-2016, 04:49 PM
Tom when you have told Meucci that you are making your tips here in the USA I will not sit quietly by while you talk about integrity and reputation.

Bob wanted a made in the USA tip for his cues and I was talking to them when you made your deal... When I called in I find out what was going on in their testing they had decided on another tip made here in the US and it was "yours"...
Now someone is lying... Either you told them what they told me or they lied about you saying it which makes no sense to me.....
If I am lying I expect to be sued for libel... I saved several communications and contacts just to be safe.....
As an importer you are REQUIRED by law to provide country of origin on your packaging. Not just IF you want to..
If I have to file complaints with the FTC I will happily do that.. By not putting anything on your products a consumer is suppose to be safe to assume they are domestic. If you have miss-represented where they are made which I have been told has been happening by people you have talked to that's a whole different complaint.
I have no issue competing with imports.. I recommend many... But the ones I recommend ALL say country of origin on them as is required...

Rentfree, it looks to me like you're about to talk yourself out of the cue tip business.
At this point you're going to have a pretty hard time just giving them away.

TomHay
07-24-2016, 04:58 PM
Chris, I sent you a 100% true PM. You can take this knowledge and understand you are a lucky man or do what you have to do, I hold no grudges.

Kickin' Chicken
07-24-2016, 05:44 PM
can a durometer be used to check the hardness of one's head?

best,
brian kc

billiardthought
07-24-2016, 05:57 PM
You are being played Chris, don't let anyone make a fool of you.


Chris doesn't need anyone except himself in this case to look foolish.


If I have to file a complaint I will.... Desperately pathetic words.

couldnthinkof01
07-24-2016, 06:14 PM
I get the feeling this refro fella is a few cans short of a 12 pack.

So many public posts with a business account, guys in glass houses and all that.

Should hire someone a lil more level headed for the public stuff bud.

poolfool1957
07-24-2016, 06:41 PM
Tom when you have told Meucci that you are making your tips here in the USA I will not sit quietly by while you talk about integrity and reputation.

Bob wanted a made in the USA tip for his cues and I was talking to them when you made your deal... When I called in I find out what was going on in their testing they had decided on another tip made here in the US and it was "yours"...

Now someone is lying... Either you told them what they told me or they lied about you saying it which makes no sense to me.....

If I am lying I expect to be sued for libel... I saved several communications and contacts just to be safe.....

As an importer you are REQUIRED by law to provide country of origin on your packaging. Not just IF you want to..

If I have to file complaints with the FTC I will happily do that.. By not putting anything on your products a consumer is suppose to be safe to assume they are domestic. If you have miss-represented where they are made which I have been told has been happening by people you have talked to that's a whole different complaint.

I have no issue competing with imports.. I recommend many... But the ones I recommend ALL say country of origin on them as is required...

I feel better about my perception of you now.
When I first noticed you jumping onto others threads be it chalk or tips, I came away thinking you were playing the "2 way" shot by cross-promoting your product while questioning the quality/integrity of any competitors product.
It's reassuring to see that others have seen pretty much the same.
Poor business practices sir.....you can do better.

As for the Ultraskins, I've used them and like them. What I'm more impressed with than the product is Tom's professionalism whether he is being stalked by a competitor or merely replying to a question about his product by someone with no conflicting reason to inquire.

There is much to learn in the way you've handled this verses how Tom has.

Oh well...what do I know? I have thought about trying one of your tips or your chalk but something keeps getting in the way......guess I'm just a dumb "would have been" customer who can't see past that "something".

The Renfro
07-24-2016, 07:27 PM
This has been going on 4 years.....

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888&highlight=address

Per Federal Trade Laws not labeling or disclosing country of origin is consumer fraud and an unfair business practice... Information can be found here.... https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard#todo

I'd just as soon drop it if Tom starts having his products marked as required.. No one is asking for trade secrets just that the law be followed..

cubswin
07-24-2016, 07:39 PM
This has been going on 4 years.....

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888&highlight=address

Per Federal Trade Laws not labeling or disclosing country of origin is consumer fraud and an unfair business practice... Information can be found here.... https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard#todo

I'd just as soon drop it if Tom starts having his products marked as required.. No one is asking for trade secrets just that the law be followed..

Maybe time you quit stalking him? Just a thought.

john coloccia
07-24-2016, 08:00 PM
This has been going on 4 years.....

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888&highlight=address

Per Federal Trade Laws not labeling or disclosing country of origin is consumer fraud and an unfair business practice... Information can be found here.... https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard#todo

I'd just as soon drop it if Tom starts having his products marked as required.. No one is asking for trade secrets just that the law be followed..

This is what Tom said in the other thread:

Now comes the "Big" shocker. I spent a lot of money having samples sent from overseas. I picked some that were good and after testing them sent to each place picked for more samples to see which were consistant. When I was satisfied I chose the best of the best. My cost, $1.50 a tip in large quantitys. Using paypal to pay, freight etc that brought me to $1.85 a tip. Than I must package them, print labels put them in a padded envelope and pay $1.95 postage. I almost forgot the part about with each order I Re Tip to make sure all is the same.

Seems like he's been pretty up front about the whole thing from the beginning, now that you mention it. Thanks for settling it once and for all.

I'll play with dried chicken skins before I send you another dime.

TomHay
07-24-2016, 08:19 PM
This has been going on 4 years.....

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888&highlight=address

Per Federal Trade Laws not labeling or disclosing country of origin is consumer fraud and an unfair business practice... Information can be found here.... https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard#todo

I'd just as soon drop it if Tom starts having his products marked as required.. No one is asking for trade secrets just that the law be followed..

Chris,

I am sorry but your attitude seems to be, get rid of Tom Hay, I will sell more tips not Chris will make such a superior Tip others will swarm to buy it.

My sales are to Cue Makers and Repair people with lathes. The bottom is sanded the sides are cut down and the top domed shaped. Should there be a stamp made for the sides to say something?

Unless you are directly stating you are made in USA the only times those rules apply are clothes and Automobiles.

I am a fair guy though, if you have the ability to read go to the very thread you yourself posted and I belive my personal post, I think is number 9 pretty much spells it out for you.

You are correct Chris it has been 4 years, in reality closer to 5. My friends who buy tips from me will continue to do so (I hope).

Never got into this to fight, just offer the best deal on the highest quality I could.

I thank you all for your time and effort.

TomHay
07-24-2016, 08:31 PM
Quote:
Now comes the "Big" shocker. I spent a lot of money having samples sent from overseas. I picked some that were good and after testing them sent to each place picked for more samples to see which were consistant. When I was satisfied I chose the best of the best. My cost, $1.50 a tip in large quantitys. Using paypal to pay, freight etc that brought me to $1.85 a tip. Than I must package them, print labels put them in a padded envelope and pay $1.95 postage. I almost forgot the part about with each order I Re Tip to make sure all is the same.
Seems like he's been pretty up front about the whole thing from the beginning, now that you mention it. Thanks for settling it once and for all.

Yes, that was number 9 I was talking about, thanks.

Chris, please be sure to add a copy of this to your FTC filing and again hope you sell a whole lotta tips

Fast Lenny
07-24-2016, 08:35 PM
The tips you sell are great Tom. My only gripe was mushrooming. I use mediums. Best bang for the buck on the tip market for sure.

john coloccia
07-24-2016, 08:41 PM
The tips you sell are great Tom. My only gripe was mushrooming. I use mediums. Best bang for the buck on the tip market for sure.

I keep reading about this but haven't experienced it. Even with the soft ones, mine mushroom a little once, I trim it, and they never mushroom again. It makes me wonder if I'm burnishing them differently than everyone else. I also get them to shine up reasonably well, something that's not supposed to happen from what I read.

When I install them, my final step is to polish the sides with a little swirl remover and a paper towel. I do this on the lathe. You need to be careful not to get it too hot, but it does a nice job IMHO. Maybe there's something to it? I started doing that a couple of months ago when I discovered that it left an amazing finish on Triangle tips.

Tramp Steamer
07-24-2016, 10:14 PM
I keep reading about this but haven't experienced it. Even with the soft ones, mine mushroom a little once, I trim it, and they never mushroom again. It makes me wonder if I'm burnishing them differently than everyone else. I also get them to shine up reasonably well, something that's not supposed to happen from what I read.

When I install them, my final step is to polish the sides with a little swirl remover and a paper towel. I do this on the lathe. You need to be careful not to get it too hot, but it does a nice job IMHO. Maybe there's something to it? I started doing that a couple of months ago when I discovered that it left an amazing finish on Triangle tips.

You're doing it the right way. When I used to install tips I would put a dab of spit on the side as it spun in the lathe, then applied a paper towel with enough pressure to bring up a nice shine.
I've never thought of it before, but I had my DNA in pool rooms all over the place. :smile:

The Renfro
07-24-2016, 10:36 PM
Quote:
Now comes the "Big" shocker. I spent a lot of money having samples sent from overseas. I picked some that were good and after testing them sent to each place picked for more samples to see which were consistant. When I was satisfied I chose the best of the best. My cost, $1.50 a tip in large quantitys. Using paypal to pay, freight etc that brought me to $1.85 a tip. Than I must package them, print labels put them in a padded envelope and pay $1.95 postage. I almost forgot the part about with each order I Re Tip to make sure all is the same.
Seems like he's been pretty up front about the whole thing from the beginning, now that you mention it. Thanks for settling it once and for all.

Yes, that was number 9 I was talking about, thanks.

Chris, please be sure to add a copy of this to your FTC filing and again hope you sell a whole lotta tips

Tom I am not knocking you over the tips... If you are clean on importing I will beat the drum for you... Imports can be as good as anything made here.... Your tips offer the best value in a layered tip on the market.... and if you are doing QC when they arrive then likely the quality will be there as well.... Your tips have a following.. If they were subpar they would not...... I have zero issue in adding you to my list of tips to try for anyone who asks again.....

I will apologize for jumping on this thread... I will take your PM at face value and bow out on what did or did not happen.. You are retired and don't need the hassle and I am still working on a new company... Both of us have better things to do.....

cammel8
07-25-2016, 06:15 AM
Quote:
Now comes the "Big" shocker. I spent a lot of money having samples sent from overseas. I picked some that were good and after testing them sent to each place picked for more samples to see which were consistant. When I was satisfied I chose the best of the best. My cost, $1.50 a tip in large quantitys. Using paypal to pay, freight etc that brought me to $1.85 a tip. Than I must package them, print labels put them in a padded envelope and pay $1.95 postage. I almost forgot the part about with each order I Re Tip to make sure all is the same.
Seems like he's been pretty up front about the whole thing from the beginning, now that you mention it. Thanks for settling it once and for all.

Yes, that was number 9 I was talking about, thanks.

Chris, please be sure to add a copy of this to your FTC filing and again hope you sell a whole lotta tips

I am a repair person and I install both Outsville and Ultraskins. Honestly I don't shoot with either. Both are really great for some and both I have been told are complete junk by others. I have played with both and honestly they both are really good tips.

With that being said, the very first time I talked to Tom. He told me that the tips where made in the USA and that is exactly what I have told all of my customers. Now I read a post where he says they are imported and it kind of irritates me.

Not because they are imported, I could care less about that. Kamui, Morri, and a slew of others are imported and I have no problem with them. My problem comes in with the fact that I was lied to and now I have in effect lied to a lot of customers Because I trusted Tom to tell me the truth.

I agree with Chris that if you are importing something you should be up front about it. I will continue to buy the ultra skins, because they are a decent tip, but the fact he made me lie, I will no longer push his tips, I will only install them on people who ask for them.

And I am thankful Chris brought this to everyone's attention. Had he not I never would have known and would have continued lying to everyone. Tom, if your tips are not made in USA own up to the fact. Don't tell people they are made in USA if they aren't. You have a quality tip. The fact that it is not made in USA is secondary to that. Push the merits of the tip themselves, and concentrate on that instead of telling people they are made in USA. It only makes you look deceptive by doing that. And from my dealings with you, you never struck me as that type of guy.

TomHay
07-25-2016, 07:09 AM
Ummmmmmmm, during this fabrication you forgot some details. 1. I am 87% hearing impaired, my Cell phone is used 99% of the time as a mini computer and for texting, we never spoke on the phone. 2. I have never told anyone where they are made and 100%, never USA.

One of the main reasons I don't flash it all over the place is simply all tips are not made to equal standards. I do/did not want someone buying a tip, thinking it was the same as mine when it was not. This also leads installer to use my name on a sub par tip.

The hours of going back and forth saying you are close and helping tweek the tip to get it just how I wanted.

Lastly as you read, 4 years ago I went as far as even telling whom I buy the plastic sleeve bags from.

It boils down to, you like the hit, you don't like the hit. You buy or you don't buy. Tom says screw it, closes up as I am retired and customers come in wanting UltraSkins and you don't have them.

Common sense would dictate on my web site or any promotions I would have a little Made in USA sticker flag on everything. I do not and come to think of it many many other tips do not. But, after 5 years, Tom Hay is the number one guy to gang up on threads (by a few). Out of all this time I have had one big complaint thrown at me, the price I sell for is to low.





I am a repair person and I install both Outsville and Ultraskins. Honestly I don't shoot with either. Both are really great for some and both I have been told are complete junk by others. I have played with both and honestly they both are really good tips.

With that being said, the very first time I talked to Tom. He told me that the tips where made in the USA and that is exactly what I have told all of my customers. Now I read a post where he says they are imported and it kind of irritates me.

Not because they are imported, I could care less about that. Kamui, Morri, and a slew of others are imported and I have no problem with them. My problem comes in with the fact that I was lied to and now I have in effect lied to a lot of customers Because I trusted Tom to tell me the truth.

I agree with Chris that if you are importing something you should be up front about it. I will continue to buy the ultra skins, because they are a decent tip, but the fact he made me lie, I will no longer push his tips, I will only install them on people who ask for them.

And I am thankful Chris brought this to everyone's attention. Had he not I never would have known and would have continued lying to everyone. Tom, if your tips are not made in USA own up to the fact. Don't tell people they are made in USA if they aren't. You have a quality tip. The fact that it is not made in USA is secondary to that. Push the merits of the tip themselves, and concentrate on that instead of telling people they are made in USA. It only makes you look deceptive by doing that. And from my dealings with you, you never struck me as that type of guy.

Tramp Steamer
07-25-2016, 07:19 AM
I am a repair person and I install both Outsville and Ultraskins. Honestly I don't shoot with either. Both are really great for some and both I have been told are complete junk by others. I have played with both and honestly they both are really good tips.

With that being said, the very first time I talked to Tom. He told me that the tips where made in the USA and that is exactly what I have told all of my customers. Now I read a post where he says they are imported and it kind of irritates me.

Not because they are imported, I could care less about that. Kamui, Morri, and a slew of others are imported and I have no problem with them. My problem comes in with the fact that I was lied to and now I have in effect lied to a lot of customers Because I trusted Tom to tell me the truth.

I agree with Chris that if you are importing something you should be up front about it. I will continue to buy the ultra skins, because they are a decent tip, but the fact he made me lie, I will no longer push his tips, I will only install them on people who ask for them.

And I am thankful Chris brought this to everyone's attention. Had he not I never would have known and would have continued lying to everyone. Tom, if your tips are not made in USA own up to the fact. Don't tell people they are made in USA if they aren't. You have a quality tip. The fact that it is not made in USA is secondary to that. Push the merits of the tip themselves, and concentrate on that instead of telling people they are made in USA. It only makes you look deceptive by doing that. And from my dealings with you, you never struck me as that type of guy.

This sounds made up to me, for two reasons. Either cameltoes, here, is just stirring shit or he's looking for a big discount from the other guy.
Pay no attention to what this man says.

cammel8
07-25-2016, 09:10 AM
Ummmmmmmm, during this fabrication you forgot some details. 1. I am 87% hearing impaired, my Cell phone is used 99% of the time as a mini computer and for texting, we never spoke on the phone. 2. I have never told anyone where they are made and 100%, never USA.

One of the main reasons I don't flash it all over the place is simply all tips are not made to equal standards. I do/did not want someone buying a tip, thinking it was the same as mine when it was not. This also leads installer to use my name on a sub par tip.

The hours of going back and forth saying you are close and helping tweek the tip to get it just how I wanted.

Lastly as you read, 4 years ago I went as far as even telling whom I buy the plastic sleeve bags from.

It boils down to, you like the hit, you don't like the hit. You buy or you don't buy. Tom says screw it, closes up as I am retired and customers come in wanting UltraSkins and you don't have them.

Common sense would dictate on my web site or any promotions I would have a little Made in USA sticker flag on everything. I do not and come to think of it many many other tips do not. But, after 5 years, Tom Hay is the number one guy to gang up on threads (by a few). Out of all this time I have had one big complaint thrown at me, the price I sell for is to low.

First, I never said I spoke to you on the phone. It was either on here in private messages or in text. And since I can't find it on here it had to have been texts. I have never technically spoken to you. But we did have a conversation because I was asking you a bunch of questions. And it was years ago. But whatever I know I've talked to you. Call it a all you want.

And Cleveland steamer or whatever your name is. ( wow it is easy to say derogatory comments towards someone's name. Maybe next time you should take that into consideration when you try to be funny changing people's name when you have steamer in yours. I would rather be known as an outline of a woman's pussy than a pile of shit.)

Anyway, I Get my tips wholesale. I'm not getting them any cheaper no matter what. I spoke up because I don't like being deceived. Simple as that.

TomHay
07-25-2016, 09:37 AM
Again, you wrote, "Talked To Tom". You now change and say it must have been a Text or PM.

No offence intented, but if you can't remember, maybe it did not go down quite as you say, or think. I will admit to shying away when asked where they are made but again i never told or wrote to you made in USA.

At present I have people calling my new tip Brown. It is not listed as brown, it is a light green but history will show for some reason I claimed Brown and as you can see from a very old post, I never went to directly decieve.

If you want, send any UltraSkins you have on hand back for a refund but I will need your name bought under Paypal to seek out the purchase and yes, right on here. I will scan Paypal and see how many and often you think you were decieved.

Hits 'em Hard
07-25-2016, 11:42 AM
Again, you wrote, "Talked To Tom". You now change and say it must have been a Text or PM.

No offence intented, but if you can't remember, maybe it did not go down quite as you say, or think. I will admit to shying away when asked where they are made but again i never told or wrote to you made in USA.

At present I have people calling my new tip Brown. It is not listed as brown, it is a light green but history will show for some reason I claimed Brown and as you can see from a very old post, I never went to directly decieve.

If you want, send any UltraSkins you have on hand back for a refund but I will need your name bought under Paypal to seek out the purchase and yes, right on here. I will scan Paypal and see how many and often you think you were decieved.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888

I just re-read most of that thread. Let's just say that four years later, the same issue is being brought up again. And on top of that it seems your memory has gone a little hazy to the facts. A simple question "do you make the tips or do you have them made" turned what should have been a page or two thread into that.

Tom no one is out to destroy you, people just want information. Instead you lead viscous tirades of personal attacks to attempt to defame their integrity so you can avoid answering the question. The question has always been: Where are the tips made? Yet it seems throughout this whole ordeal that out of all the petty things to take out of context, that's got to be the most absurd.

China or Japan?

pocket
07-25-2016, 11:49 AM
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888

I just re-read most of that thread. Let's just say that four years later, the same issue is being brought up again. And on top of that it seems your memory has gone a little hazy to the facts. A simple question "do you make the tips or do you have them made" turned what should have been a page or two thread into that.

Tom no one is out to destroy you, people just want information. Instead you lead viscous tirades of personal attacks to attempt to defame their integrity so you can avoid answering the question. The question has always been: Where are the tips made? Yet it seems throughout this whole ordeal that out of all the petty things to take out of context, that's got to be the most absurd.

China or Japan?

It's been shown in this thread and the other referenced thread that they are imported? The only attack I've seen (and I'm a casual observer here) came from Renfro.

Tramp Steamer
07-25-2016, 12:05 PM
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888
I just re-read most of that thread. Let's just say that four years later, the same issue is being brought up again. And on top of that it seems your memory has gone a little hazy to the facts. A simple question "do you make the tips or do you have them made" turned what should have been a page or two thread into that.
Tom no one is out to destroy you, people just want information. Instead you lead viscous tirades of personal attacks to attempt to defame their integrity so you can avoid answering the question. The question has always been: Where are the tips made? Yet it seems throughout this whole ordeal that out of all the petty things to take out of context, that's got to be the most absurd.
China or Japan?

Why would you care? What business is it of yours?
If you don't have a dog in this fight then stay the hell out of it.

j2pac
07-25-2016, 12:54 PM
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888

I just re-read most of that thread. Let's just say that four years later, the same issue is being brought up again. And on top of that it seems your memory has gone a little hazy to the facts. A simple question "do you make the tips or do you have them made" turned what should have been a page or two thread into that.

Tom no one is out to destroy you, people just want information. Instead you lead viscous tirades of personal attacks to attempt to defame their integrity so you can avoid answering the question. The question has always been: Where are the tips made? Yet it seems throughout this whole ordeal that out of all the petty things to take out of context, that's got to be the most absurd.

China or Japan?

See post #42, sentence number 1. He answered the question. "He has the tips made to his specs, and personally backs each tip." As to the where it's made, I would say that is his business. You obviously know it's not made in the states, so you either like'em, or you don't. I have one of his soft tips on a shaft that Bob Dzuricky made for me, and it plays pretty darn well. I would also add that Tom has conducted himself as nothing short of a gentleman in any exchange that I have ever had with him. This is certainly something that he does not have to do, but it seems he is satisfying a good many folks, so the sour grapes that get posted here, seem to be just that. I am not a fire-starter, just lending an opinion. In closing, I haven't noticed Tom attempting to "defame" anyone here, but the man is certainly entitled to defend himself, and I believe he has done so admirably. :cool:
All the best.
j2

Hits 'em Hard
07-25-2016, 01:37 PM
See post #42, sentence number 1. He answered the question. "He has the tips made to his specs, and personally backs each tip." As to the where it's made, I would say that is his business. You obviously know it's not made in the states, so you either like'em, or you don't. I have one of his soft tips on a shaft that Bob Dzuricky made for me, and it plays pretty darn well. I would also add that Tom has conducted himself as nothing short of a gentleman in any exchange that I have ever had with him. This is certainly something that he does not have to do, but it seems he is satisfying a good many folks, so the sour grapes that get posted here, seem to be just that. I am not a fire-starter, just lending an opinion. In closing, I haven't noticed Tom attempting to "defame" anyone here, but the man is certainly entitled to defend himself, and I believe he has done so admirably. :cool:
All the best.
j2

Did you miss the part where he has to insult people who don't use their real name? So just because I don't post with my real name doesn't mean Tom doesn't know my real name. In fact I even bought some of these SiB tips just because I could. Why did I do that? Well because it shouldn't take a $20 tip in order to get some consistency from a product. Do I agree with how Tom has responded to all these comments? Hell no.

As for where the tips come from I don't really care, but the courts may. Not my decision to make on how he has to run his business. Some people, myself included, won't care where the origin of the tips is. What I do care about though is when someone is asked a question. Rather than answer that they attempt to insult the person asking the question. That's what Tom did four years ago, and is doing now.

It's like OB Cues saying their new Digicuethingamabob is made in the USA. It's not. It's assembled in the USA from sourced parts from overseas. The only USA made piece is the plastic shell, which is going to be sourced from plastic pellets from overseas. Just like how my iPhone says designed in California and assembled in China on it. People in general are dumb and believe what they want for their reasons. If having "Made in USA" branded on a product is enough to convince them it's quality, I'll sell them everything I own that's made in the USA for their premium quality product price.

Tom does USA standard of quality control on the tips he buys, which is good enough to me. And better than the quality control I've seen come out of Chris. Which is another can of worms....

j2pac
07-25-2016, 01:41 PM
Did you miss the part where he has to insult people who don't use their real name? So just because I don't post with my real name doesn't mean Tom doesn't know my real name. In fact I even bought some of these SiB tips just because I could. Why did I do that? Well because it shouldn't take a $20 tip in order to get some consistency from a product. Do I agree with how Tom has responded to all these comments? Hell no.

As for where the tips come from I don't really care, but the courts may. Not my decision to make on how he has to run his business. Some people, myself included, won't care where the origin of the tips is. What I do care about though is when someone is asked a question. Rather than answer that they attempt to insult the person asking the question. That's what Tom did four years ago, and is doing now.

It's like OB Cues saying their new Digicuethingamabob is made in the USA. It's not. It's assembled in the USA from sourced parts from overseas. The only USA made piece is the plastic shell, which is going to be sourced from plastic pellets from overseas. Just like how my iPhone says designed in California and assembled in China on it. People in general are dumb and believe what they want for their reasons. If having "Made in USA" branded on a product is enough to convince them it's quality, I'll sell them everything I own that's made in the USA for their premium quality product price.

Tom does USA standard of quality control on the tips he buys, which is good enough to me. And better than the quality control I've seen come out of Chris. Which is another can of worms....

I think you missed the part where it hasn't been Tom who has insulted anyone so far in this thread. There has been a poster in this thread, who has ad-libed a few AZB usernames, but I certainly don't think it was Tom.
All the best.
Joe P.

Hits 'em Hard
07-25-2016, 01:43 PM
I think you missed the part where it hasn't been Tom who has insulted anyone. There has been a poster who was adlibing names, but I certainly don't think it was Tom.
All the best.
Joe P.

You see that link I dug up and posted? Why don't you go read for a bit and see what Tom had to say, and what he referred to me and another poster as. I've never called him anything else(a sign of respect) but he couldn't even be bothered to respond to me by name.

j2pac
07-25-2016, 01:51 PM
You see that link I dug up and posted? Why don't you go read for a bit and see what Tom had to say, and what he referred to me and another poster as. I've never called him anything else(a sign of respect) but he couldn't even be bothere to responded to me by name.

No thanks. I am only referring to this thread. This is not my fight, and I certainly don't care about 4 years ago. Whatever the issue is, it seems to have been resolved. The question seems to have been answered. I wish you a good day Sir.
Best regards.
Joe P.

Tramp Steamer
07-25-2016, 01:51 PM
I think you missed the part where it hasn't been Tom who has insulted anyone so far in this thread. There has been a poster in this thread, who has ad-libed a few AZB usernames, but I certainly don't think it was Tom.
All the best.
Joe P.


Ad libber, you say? As in Cameltoe, and Rentfree? Yes, that would be me.
This attack on Tom is wholly without merit, and will be met in kind.
Lose the hounds.

TomHay
07-25-2016, 03:05 PM
I had filled my PM Box, signed out and saw the above. I would like to address it if I may.

I am sorry, I do not know who everyones name is, I have 2,000 customers and a hard time remembering my own sometimes.

On the 4 year old thread we are speaking Agent17 whom on my tips sort of disappeared into the night and if you read the thread he first tried to coax me into big deal investors if it was a 100% Tom Hay product. I think anyone who knows of me can tell my reason to start with was for the Cue Repair person, quality with breathing room.

Agent 17 than slammed my butt for not giving him an immediate reply. I explained I read about a 2 day rule for sales, I was new, read it and thought it meant any sales. I think for anyone reading this today and going back to that thread will see it. My back was up against a wall and natural insticts kick in, you want to fight away from the wall plus it takes a bit to calm down, reason for my self inflicted time out.

Like many sellers here I did a search on myself and products, This thread popped up and I noticed two things from the go. One that it was a brown tip, which I never put as brown, it is light green. The other was Chris was going to do tests on it to make sure it checked out 100% to old Mooris. I never said that either, I stated it was designed for people who like the old Moori Style Hit and G@ as this leather plays more like them and nothing like an UltraSkin or say Kamui type hit. You can travel around the WWW, to my Web Site and never will you see Made in USA.

Is there a fear factor? Yep, you can take different parts of a whole pig leather and obtain different results. This is why some parts of the Pig Leather sell for more. The leather than goes through treatments, sometimes two and even the dye can cause a chemical reaction to change play.

Now I say I get mine from ---------------. Others go there and next thing you know a tip I was offering like the Oinkers for $1.00 per retail will be dyed black and sold for $8.95 per tip. I mean it has to play better, it cost $8.95. The results? ALL black tips play bad and thats when it hurts everyone. I am no Hero but will promise in some way or another it has happened to about all the Cue Repair people in here. I am but an older guy that can barely walk (hoping part of that can be fixed in September who saw a way to stay associated in a game/sport he was in most of his life and give a good deal to boot.

I hear about me going ablaze insulting people? I have read some endless threads of bashing I wouldn't let a child read.

Well thats it, signing off for a while, best to all. :)

Craig
07-25-2016, 03:19 PM
This has been going on 4 years.....

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888&highlight=address

Per Federal Trade Laws not labeling or disclosing country of origin is consumer fraud and an unfair business practice... Information can be found here.... https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard#todo

I'd just as soon drop it if Tom starts having his products marked as required.. No one is asking for trade secrets just that the law be followed..

.................................................. ................

cammel8
07-25-2016, 05:51 PM
Again, you wrote, "Talked To Tom". You now change and say it must have been a Text or PM.

No offence intented, but if you can't remember, maybe it did not go down quite as you say, or think. I will admit to shying away when asked where they are made but again i never told or wrote to you made in USA.

At present I have people calling my new tip Brown. It is not listed as brown, it is a light green but history will show for some reason I claimed Brown and as you can see from a very old post, I never went to directly decieve.

If you want, send any UltraSkins you have on hand back for a refund but I will need your name bought under Paypal to seek out the purchase and yes, right on here. I will scan Paypal and see how many and often you think you were decieved.

How is texting not talking. I never said I spoke with Tom I said I talked to him. I'm sorry if you took that as something it wasn't. Should I have said conversated. I'm sorry. I didn't realize I had to be specific. Ok let me be specific. I conversated with Tom Hay through non verbal means and he lied to me by informing me they where made in the YEAR when in fact they where imputed from another country. This caused me to believe what I informed by Tom and in effect inform others inadvertently of said lie.

There now keep trying to play semantics but I was straight up lied to. You can act like we never talked but I know the truth. And like I said I don't even care they were imported I care I was lied to.

And as I said before, I buy my tips from my distributors, I have only order from you directly once or twice and it took too long to get them. Not that you took a long time, but when I order from my distributor I get them in a day or two. For the difference in price it is worth the little extra.

I don't need a refund, I would like an apology, but like I said I don't plan on not using them anymore I just feel slighted because I was miss informed.

Maxx
07-25-2016, 07:41 PM
How is texting not talking. I never said I spoke with Tom I said I talked to him. I'm sorry if you took that as something it wasn't. Should I have said conversated. I'm sorry. I didn't realize I had to be specific. Ok let me be specific. I conversated with Tom Hay through non verbal means and he lied to me by informing me they where made in the YEAR when in fact they where imputed from another country. This caused me to believe what I informed by Tom and in effect inform others inadvertently of said lie.

There now keep trying to play semantics but I was straight up lied to. You can act like we never talked but I know the truth. And like I said I don't even care they were imported I care I was lied to.

And as I said before, I buy my tips from my distributors, I have only order from you directly once or twice and it took too long to get them. Not that you took a long time, but when I order from my distributor I get them in a day or two. For the difference in price it is worth the little extra.

I don't need a refund, I would like an apology, but like I said I don't plan on not using them anymore I just feel slighted because I was miss informed.

You don't need to post any more, you did your job, you ran him off. Good job, you and Renfro should be proud.

Quesports
07-25-2016, 08:04 PM
There is so much wrong with this thread. BUT it is AZ after all. The members have driven off just about every pro player alive. The WFS section is in shambles. Now it's time to drive each other off. Good Grief!!!

Quesports
07-25-2016, 08:06 PM
.................

Michael Webb
07-26-2016, 08:11 AM
There is so much wrong with this thread. BUT it is AZ after all. The members have driven off just about every pro player alive. The WFS section is in shambles. Now it's time to drive each other off. Good Grief!!!


Well said. X2

Evil8 Billiards
07-26-2016, 08:53 AM
I just received my tips from Tom and i have to say these are really great tips. Thanks Tom.

Tramp Steamer
07-26-2016, 09:01 AM
There is so much wrong with this thread. BUT it is AZ after all. The members have driven off just about every pro player alive. The WFS section is in shambles. Now it's time to drive each other off. Good Grief!!!


What's wrong with this thread is Rentfree, and Cameltoe. I disagree, however, that members have caused the disappearance of pro players.
Granted, we can be abrasive, disagreeable, and a lot of times down right rude. Hell, I've even got pissed at myself from time to time.
The main reason, in my view, why we see so few pro players on AZB is that we have so little in common with them. I know that sounds funny, but hear me out.
A pro would care little for the league players here, although they make up the bulk of our membership. League play is just not a part of their world.
A pro would find the day to day, ups and downs of pool play by us commoners a complete bore. Why would a pro care if I was having trouble making a three railer. They have enough trouble finding their next money match.
Finally, there are no real secrets to impart regarding shot making, and if there were it would be unlikely for a pro to give any of them away.
There are more reasons, I'm sure, but you get the idea. :smile:

a1712
07-26-2016, 09:34 AM
I just received my tips from Tom and i have to say these are really great tips. Thanks Tom.

You arrived at this conclusion from an install? Brian.

Evil8 Billiards
07-26-2016, 10:01 AM
You arrived at this conclusion from an install? Brian.

Yes Brian I came to this conclusion just from an install :slap:

I actually shot with the tip last night and plays great. :thumbup:

a1712
07-26-2016, 10:22 AM
Yes Brian I came to this conclusion just from an install :slap:

I actually shot with the tip last night and plays great. :thumbup:

How does it compare to the blacks? Brian.

The Renfro
07-26-2016, 11:08 AM
What's wrong with this thread is Rentfree, and Cameltoe. I disagree, however, that members have caused the disappearance of pro players.
Granted, we can be abrasive, disagreeable, and a lot of times down right rude. Hell, I've even got pissed at myself from time to time.
The main reason, in my view, why we see so few pro players on AZB is that we have so little in common with them. I know that sounds funny, but hear me out.
A pro would care little for the league players here, although they make up the bulk of our membership. League play is just not a part of their world.
A pro would find the day to day, ups and downs of pool play by us commoners a complete bore. Why would a pro care if I was having trouble making a three railer. They have enough trouble finding their next money match.
Finally, there are no real secrets to impart regarding shot making, and if there were it would be unlikely for a pro to give any of them away.
There are more reasons, I'm sure, but you get the idea. :smile:

Yep I am what's wrong with the thread... Not someone breaking the law for over 4 years....

What Tom has been doing is illegal... Point of fact... Just because he didn't want to label his country of origin and just because many of you don't care about the law doesn't change the fact it is and has been the law. It is very much black and white and is there for anyone who cares to read about it. Anyone who imports products is required to know the rules and follow them.

In the 4 years I have been going to events I have been told by several installers that they have been told the tips were made in Florida... I am not going to list them here or drag them into it because I told Tom I was dropping it since it is his word vs theirs so it is a push... but Had the labeling rules been followed there would have been zero chance it could have happened.....

As a manufacturer in the billiard industry I see fakes, unmarked imports and even missmarked imports that are all too common... I don't really care if you don't buy any of my products because of the fact I want a level playing field... You should be able to buy any product and have confidence that the law is supposed to protect you and assist you in making choices...

When you buy fake mooris or G2s or Kamuis that you think are real not only are you not getting a genuine product but you may be helping to tear down the original product... When you are buying some imports that are not marked you are helping to support some of those same manufacturers... There are far fewer manufacturers than there are brands.

billiardthought
07-26-2016, 11:44 AM
Yep I am what's wrong with the thread... Not someone breaking the law for over 4 years....

We all get it. You just want the people of the world to follow the law, and what better law to start enforcing than the law stating importers must list country of manufacture.

Join the ATF or USDA if you really want to protect consumers.

You're trying to be a good citizen, you're just making yourself look so terrible while doing it.

Fast Lenny
07-26-2016, 11:52 AM
I keep reading about this but haven't experienced it. Even with the soft ones, mine mushroom a little once, I trim it, and they never mushroom again. It makes me wonder if I'm burnishing them differently than everyone else. I also get them to shine up reasonably well, something that's not supposed to happen from what I read.

When I install them, my final step is to polish the sides with a little swirl remover and a paper towel. I do this on the lathe. You need to be careful not to get it too hot, but it does a nice job IMHO. Maybe there's something to it? I started doing that a couple of months ago when I discovered that it left an amazing finish on Triangle tips.

I have to have it trimmed down twice before it doesn't mushroom anymore. Once its good then its good to go for the duration. I really like the tips but that is my only gripe. I will try and burnish the sides really well next time to see if it helps to harden up so it doesn't mushroom so easily.

Fast Lenny
07-26-2016, 11:54 AM
Sometimes its best to take the high road. Let your product speak for itself. I have never tried Ki-Tech tips to give an opinion but it seems the Ultra Skins must be doing better in the sales department. :cool:

Hits 'em Hard
07-26-2016, 12:00 PM
I have to have it trimmed down twice before it doesn't mushroom anymore. Once its good then its good to go for the duration. I really like the tips but that is my only gripe. I will try and burnish the sides really well next time to see if it helps to harden up so it doesn't mushroom so easily.

I wouldn't be too worried about the mushrooming. Personally speaking, all playing tips I've ever installed that didn't mushroom played like crap. Even the KiTechs I got from Renfro eventually did mushroom too. Albeit a way less than a normal tip. If the tip doesn't mushroom it's probably hard enough to be a good break tip.

john coloccia
07-26-2016, 12:15 PM
I have to have it trimmed down twice before it doesn't mushroom anymore. Once its good then its good to go for the duration. I really like the tips but that is my only gripe. I will try and burnish the sides really well next time to see if it helps to harden up so it doesn't mushroom so easily.

Not just burnishing, but specifically the swirl remover seemed to work some magic. Maybe I'm just fooling myself, and I'll readily admit I don't really know what I'm doing, so there's that... :smile:

The Renfro
07-26-2016, 12:21 PM
Not just burnishing, but specifically the swirl remover seemed to work some magic. Maybe I'm just fooling myself, and I'll readily admit I don't really know what I'm doing, so there's that... :smile:

The swirl remover likely would function as around 3500 grit sandpaper and usually has some carnuba or petroleum products which would help fill and condition the sides of the tip... I doubt you are fooling yourself.....

berko
07-26-2016, 12:41 PM
This thread reminds me that I need to stock up on Ultraskins.

mortuarymike-nv
07-26-2016, 12:53 PM
Not just burnishing, but specifically the swirl remover seemed to work some magic. Maybe I'm just fooling myself, and I'll readily admit I don't really know what I'm doing, so there's that... :smile:

I use the swirl remover to clean up the ferrules .
I only know of two ways of polishing out the ferrules, one is polishing creams and the other is wet sanding with micro mesh.

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h454/mortuarymike/Triangle%20install_zpsnkimnrmn.jpg (http://s1110.photobucket.com/user/mortuarymike/media/Triangle%20install_zpsnkimnrmn.jpg.html)
If it works who cares if you know what your doing :thumbup:
Just fake it like the rest of the professionals

john coloccia
07-26-2016, 01:07 PM
What Tom has been doing is illegal... Point of fact... Just because he didn't want to label his country of origin and just because many of you don't care about the law doesn't change the fact it is and has been the law. It is very much black and white and is there for anyone who cares to read about it. Anyone who imports products is required to know the rules and follow them.

Chris, what law are you talking about? Leather goods are specifically EXCLUDED from labeling requirement.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/threading-your-way-through-labeling-requirements-under-textile

Just search on "leather". Is there some other law I'm missing? If he's lying to people about it, that's one thing, but so far I think it's one person that's come forward and he doesn't have the e-mails/pms/texts/whatever so we don't really know what he was actually told, if Tom just skirted the question and an assumption was made, or what. I've already mentioned that Billiard Warehouse lists it as an American Made tip, and hopefully Tom will correct that and we can move on.

The swirl remover likely would function as around 3500 grit sandpaper and usually has some carnuba or petroleum products which would help fill and condition the sides of the tip... I doubt you are fooling yourself.....

That was my thought and why I first thought to try it. I figured it might be just abrasive enough to knock off little microscopic stray fibers and smush/burnish them into the sides to make a nice, hard surface, even on a Triangle or Ultraskin.


If it works who cares if you know what your doing :thumbup:
Just fake it like the rest of the professionals

Ha ha...well, maybe I know just a tiny bit more than I'm letting on, but not much.

Dave38
07-26-2016, 01:48 PM
Concerning mushrooming, I have found with any layered tip, that if you cut the tip down about 2-3 layers, depending on individual layer thickness, before shaping, the chance of mushrooming is less likely to happen. The tip will settle in faster too. The taller you leave the tip, the more likely it will mushroom at least a little. I have quite a few players that have me cut about half of a Kamui off before shaping. Hope this helps.
Dave

BJTyler
07-26-2016, 01:51 PM
Yep I am what's wrong with the thread... Not someone breaking the law for over 4 years....

What Tom has been doing is illegal... Point of fact... Just because he didn't want to label his country of origin and just because many of you don't care about the law doesn't change the fact it is and has been the law. It is very much black and white and is there for anyone who cares to read about it. Anyone who imports products is required to know the rules and follow them.



Can you please cite the relevant law to which you are referring. I could not find it in the FTC link you posted.

From: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard#todo

"U.S. content must be disclosed on automobiles and textile, wool, and fur products. There’s no law that requires most other products sold in the U.S. to be marked or labeled Made in USA or have any other disclosure about their amount of U.S. content. However, manufacturers and marketers who choose to make claims about the amount of U.S. content in their products must comply with the FTC’s Made in USA policy."

..and as JC correctly noted above, leather goods & trim seem to be specifically exempt from textiles.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/threading-your-way-through-labeling-requirements-under-textile

Tramp Steamer
07-26-2016, 02:06 PM
Yep I am what's wrong with the thread... Not someone breaking the law for over 4 years....

What Tom has been doing is illegal... Point of fact... Just because he didn't want to label his country of origin and just because many of you don't care about the law doesn't change the fact it is and has been the law. It is very much black and white and is there for anyone who cares to read about it. Anyone who imports products is required to know the rules and follow them.

In the 4 years I have been going to events I have been told by several installers that they have been told the tips were made in Florida... I am not going to list them here or drag them into it because I told Tom I was dropping it since it is his word vs theirs so it is a push... but Had the labeling rules been followed there would have been zero chance it could have happened.....

As a manufacturer in the billiard industry I see fakes, unmarked imports and even missmarked imports that are all too common... I don't really care if you don't buy any of my products because of the fact I want a level playing field... You should be able to buy any product and have confidence that the law is supposed to protect you and assist you in making choices...

When you buy fake mooris or G2s or Kamuis that you think are real not only are you not getting a genuine product but you may be helping to tear down the original product... When you are buying some imports that are not marked you are helping to support some of those same manufacturers... There are far fewer manufacturers than there are brands.


Tell it to the Marines.
I'd imagine your cue tip business is pretty much shot to hell. At least for the foreseeable future.

ZeroSkylineX
07-26-2016, 03:19 PM
Can you please cite the relevant law to which you are referring. I could not find it in the FTC link you posted.

From: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard#todo

"U.S. content must be disclosed on automobiles and textile, wool, and fur products. Thereís no law that requires most other products sold in the U.S. to be marked or labeled Made in USA or have any other disclosure about their amount of U.S. content. However, manufacturers and marketers who choose to make claims about the amount of U.S. content in their products must comply with the FTCís Made in USA policy."

..and as JC correctly noted above, leather goods & trim seem to be specifically exempt from textiles.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/threading-your-way-through-labeling-requirements-under-textile
Waiting for The Renfro to respond to this. This will silence everything once and for all. If it's not required as he claimed to be, Tom can go on his way like he always did.

cubswin
07-26-2016, 03:22 PM
What's wrong with this thread is Rentfree, and Cameltoe. I disagree, however, that members have caused the disappearance of pro players.


Along with the people mentioned, you've also dragged it down with the "cameltoe" name change.

Shawn Armstrong
07-26-2016, 03:25 PM
So, let me get this straight. Someone is slagging Tom for not marking his tips, claiming that what he is doing is illegal for not marking them with their country of origin? And, a few other posters have discovered that this isn't even a requirement.

Meanwhile, the guy throwing all of the accusations around doesn't even make the Kitech tips. I mean, he soaks the Elkmasters (base for the soft), Triangles (base for the medium) and LePros (base for the hard), and presses them. Then relabels them as Kitechs. I can understand why he's pissed. Tom offers a layered tip for less than he tries to sell Elks and LePros for. $15 for a LePro?? I buy a box for $30. That's 60c per tip. Unless he's soaking them in Saffron juice, or polyjuice potion (Harry Potter reference), that's a lot of markup. And they really don't play any better than a good Elk, Triangle or LePro.

Also, is there any proof that he actually does anything with them? I know he's worried about someone picking up on the secret sauce. Milk duds have been made for years. They're being sold for a fair price by PoolDawg. I just have trouble floating $15 for a tip that sans camel urine and divine prayer/pressing would retail for $1. Perhaps $2 in the case of the Triangle. And....Triangles have been considered a pretty decent one piece tip for years. It isn't surprising that people seem to love the KiTech medium - it's made from a Triangle.

billiardthought
07-26-2016, 03:33 PM
So, let me get this straight. Someone is slagging Tom for not marking his tips, claiming that what he is doing is illegal for not marking them with their country of origin? And, a few other posters have discovered that this isn't even a requirement.

Meanwhile, the guy throwing all of the accusations around doesn't even make the Kitech tips. I mean, he soaks the Elkmasters (base for the soft), Triangles (base for the medium) and LePros (base for the hard), and presses them. Then relabels them as Kitechs. I can understand why he's pissed. Tom offers a layered tip for less than he tries to sell Elks and LePros for. $15 for a LePro?? I buy a box for $30. That's 60c per tip. Unless he's soaking them in Saffron juice, or polyjuice potion (Harry Potter reference), that's a lot of markup. And they really don't play any better than a good Elk, Triangle or LePro.

Also, is there any proof that he actually does anything with them? I know he's worried about someone picking up on the secret sauce. Milk duds have been made for years. They're being sold for a fair price by PoolDawg. I just have trouble floating $15 for a tip that sans camel urine and divine prayer/pressing would retail for $1. Perhaps $2 in the case of the Triangle. And....Triangles have been considered a pretty decent one piece tip for years. It isn't surprising that people seem to love the KiTech medium - it's made from a Triangle.

This post made me more excited than when I get a cue in the mail.

Tramp Steamer
07-26-2016, 04:14 PM
Along with the people mentioned, you've also dragged it down with the "cameltoe" name change.

I thought it was kinda catchy. You know, the cameltoe (foot) in mouth thing.
You didn't even mention Rentfree. Why not?
Bottom line here cubskin, Tom Hay is a friend of mine and I just didn't like the odds.
Like it, or lump it.

cubswin
07-26-2016, 04:15 PM
I thought it was kinda catchy. You know, the cameltoe (foot) in mouth thing.
You didn't even mention Rentfree. Why not?
Bottom line here cubskin, Tom Hay is a friend of mine and I just didn't like the odds.
Like it, or lump it.

Well if Tom is a friend of yours, I would think you wouldn't want to drag a thread about how good his tips are into the dumpster. Funny way to show friendship if you ask me.

Tramp Steamer
07-26-2016, 04:21 PM
Well if Tom is a friend of yours, I would think you wouldn't want to drag a thread about how good his tips are into the dumpster. Funny way to show friendship if you ask me.

Wait a minute. Stop the presses. You mean to sit there and tell me that two guys who assassinate the hell out of Tom's character should go unscathed, while I be punished for rearranging their names.
What the hell are you, a Democrat, or something?

cubswin
07-26-2016, 04:27 PM
Wait a minute. Stop the presses. You mean to sit there and tell me that two guys who assassinate the hell out of Tom's character should go unscathed, while I be punished for rearranging their names.
What the hell are you, a Democrat, or something?

Nope, not a democrat. And I don't like either of them, and I think it is a bunch of nonsense to complain about Tom selling tips. Obviously Renfrow is upset, because he thinks his over priced tips are the only ones that should be sold on this forum. The other username, well who knows the real motivation.

And then there is you, dragging things further down by resorting to juvenile name calling. Instead of just saying you like Tom's tips, letting the rest of us know what you like about them.

Oh well, my last comment on this thread, as Tom has said he is leaving the forum anyway. Which I think is a shame.

Maxx
07-26-2016, 06:16 PM
So, let me get this straight. Someone is slagging Tom for not marking his tips, claiming that what he is doing is illegal for not marking them with their country of origin? And, a few other posters have discovered that this isn't even a requirement.

Meanwhile, the guy throwing all of the accusations around doesn't even make the Kitech tips. I mean, he soaks the Elkmasters (base for the soft), Triangles (base for the medium) and LePros (base for the hard), and presses them. Then relabels them as Kitechs. I can understand why he's pissed. Tom offers a layered tip for less than he tries to sell Elks and LePros for. $15 for a LePro?? I buy a box for $30. That's 60c per tip. Unless he's soaking them in Saffron juice, or polyjuice potion (Harry Potter reference), that's a lot of markup. And they really don't play any better than a good Elk, Triangle or LePro.

Also, is there any proof that he actually does anything with them? I know he's worried about someone picking up on the secret sauce. Milk duds have been made for years. They're being sold for a fair price by PoolDawg. I just have trouble floating $15 for a tip that sans camel urine and divine prayer/pressing would retail for $1. Perhaps $2 in the case of the Triangle. And....Triangles have been considered a pretty decent one piece tip for years. It isn't surprising that people seem to love the KiTech medium - it's made from a Triangle.

Good post. Renfro where is the MSDS for the secret sauce. Is it safe, does it cause cancer, will people have square babies if they shape the tips?

I demand to know.

The Renfro
07-26-2016, 06:21 PM
Chris, what law are you talking about? Leather goods are specifically EXCLUDED from labeling requirement.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/threading-your-way-through-labeling-requirements-under-textile

Just search on "leather". Is there some other law I'm missing? If he's lying to people about it, that's one thing, but so far I think it's one person that's come forward and he doesn't have the e-mails/pms/texts/whatever so we don't really know what he was actually told, if Tom just skirted the question and an assumption was made, or what. I've already mentioned that Billiard Warehouse lists it as an American Made tip, and hopefully Tom will correct that and we can move on.



That was my thought and why I first thought to try it. I figured it might be just abrasive enough to knock off little microscopic stray fibers and smush/burnish them into the sides to make a nice, hard surface, even on a Triangle or Ultraskin.



Ha ha...well, maybe I know just a tiny bit more than I'm letting on, but not much.


All leather goods do not fall under textiles and the code is large.. I'll look later but this is a good indicator since if leather was exempted completely regardless of industry this ruling would not exist..... http://rulings.cbp.gov/detail.asp?ru=f89869&qu=leather+country+of+origin

I have been beating this drum for years so this was is not a personal thing... Predator makes their chalk in China without a label of origin... I have argued with people that tweeten makes it or they are making it themselves. I have argued with the importer of Cyborg/On as they come in unmarked with COO.... I have linked Cuesouls packaging that claims they are a US Tip..

Notice OB says made in China on the Box.... I actually had some input on the chalk formula and labels as I wanted Royce and OB to have a solid offering for the players that could compete with the other premiums including OURS....

Everyone has their own windmill to joist with... Mine is truth in labels and origin... IF you want to know what processes we do for the Ki-techs I have never lied.. It's on the Outsville page for anyone who wants to look and if you research you will find me saying the same things for the last several years.

GoldCrown
07-26-2016, 06:24 PM
Oh well, my last comment on this thread, as Tom has said he is leaving the forum anyway. Which I think is a shame.

I did not read all the posts. Tom is a first class person to deal with. I'm sure he does not make a lot of money from everything he sells. I hope he does not leave.
Also Tom is a sharing kind of person. If someone wants to learn about using a lathe for tip replacement or repair he will help out.

Wedge
07-26-2016, 06:33 PM
All leather goods do not fall under textiles and the code is large.. I'll look later but this is a good indicator since if leather was exempted completely regardless of industry this ruling would not exist..... http://rulings.cbp.gov/detail.asp?ru=f89869&qu=leather+country+of+origin

I have been beating this drum for years so this was is not a personal thing... Predator makes their chalk in China without a label of origin... I have argued with people that tweeten makes it or they are making it themselves. I have argued with the importer of Cyborg/On as they come in unmarked with COO.... I have linked Cuesouls packaging that claims they are a US Tip..

Notice OB says made in China on the Box.... I actually had some input on the chalk formula and labels as I wanted Royce and OB to have a solid offering for the players that could compete with the other premiums including OURS....

Everyone has their own windmill to joist with... Mine is truth in labels and origin... IF you want to know what processes we do for the Ki-techs I have never lied.. It's on the Outsville page for anyone who wants to look and if you research you will find me saying the same things for the last several years.

Are your Accu-Racks made exclusively in the US with US material?

Wedge

The Renfro
07-26-2016, 09:06 PM
Are your Accu-Racks made exclusively in the US with US material?

Wedge

Yes they are.... even the carry tubes and printed inserts... We try and order everything from US makers but that is not always possible. The Leather clips for the Great White come from a US retailer and are unmarked but if I had to bet those are made overseas so I keep sourcing...

We used to carry an engraved metal clip as well and the last order they shipped they forgot to remove the COO stickers as they had previously told me they were made here and engraved in California... We have not found a replacement for those but are still looking......

Wedge
07-26-2016, 09:18 PM
Yes they are.... even the carry tubes and printed inserts... We try and order everything from US makers but that is not always possible. The Leather clips for the Great White come from a US retailer and are unmarked but if I had to bet those are made overseas so I keep sourcing...

We used to carry an engraved metal clip as well and the last order they shipped they forgot to remove the COO stickers as they had previously told me they were made here and engraved in California... We have not found a replacement for those but are still looking......

Good job

Thanks

Dave38
07-27-2016, 12:29 AM
All leather goods do not fall under textiles and the code is large.. I'll look later but this is a good indicator since if leather was exempted completely regardless of industry this ruling would not exist......
So AFTER the fact YOU have claimed over and over that Tom HAS broken the law.... and you will report him if you have to...you now say the above...isn't that kinda back pedaling? YOU made accusations and stated as fact that Tom was in violation of the laws, now you say...I'll look later?
If you are as honest and forth coming as you say then....
How about answering these next questions....HONESTLY, are your tips that you sell basically Altered elkmasters, lepros, and triangles, and the treatment you soak these in...can you release the MDS sheets so we as intallers know what chemical cocktail you are exposing us to and are you doing this in the USA and are you following all proper procedures while doing this chemical treatment, including not exposing the outside environment and fellow Americans to the fumes of the chemicals you are using, Are you doing it in an industrial classified section of the city or are you home brewing? Toxic waste disposal is another issue...Are you dumping the solution down a drain and poisoning our water tables or paying a waste treatment company with proper handling certs to handle the toxic waste you need to remove? How many more questions do you want fired your way? Trust me, one call to your own cities' Dept. of Public Safety and you will be answering more questions and paying lawyers more than Hillary has, and may end up outta business if you aren't following every one of the laws concerning the usage/storage/disposal of anything considered a chemical treatment.
You could be in bigger trouble than Tom could ever think of being in. The US laws and the local laws concerning proper chemical usage/storage/disposal especially in a neighborhood environment are far more formidable than any import laws.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programing,
Dave

j2pac
07-27-2016, 03:20 AM
So AFTER the fact YOU have claimed over and over that Tom HAS broken the law.... and you will report him if you have to...you now say the above...isn't that kinda back pedaling? YOU made accusations and stated as fact that Tom was in violation of the laws, now you say...I'll look later?
If you are as honest and forth coming as you say then....
How about answering these next questions....HONESTLY, are your tips that you sell basically Altered elkmasters, lepros, and triangles, and the treatment you soak these in...can you release the MDS sheets so we as intallers know what chemical cocktail you are exposing us to and are you doing this in the USA and are you following all proper procedures while doing this chemical treatment, including not exposing the outside environment and fellow Americans to the fumes of the chemicals you are using, Are you doing it in an industrial classified section of the city or are you home brewing? Toxic waste disposal is another issue...Are you dumping the solution down a drain and poisoning our water tables or paying a waste treatment company with proper handling certs to handle the toxic waste you need to remove? How many more questions do you want fired your way? Trust me, one call to your own cities' Dept. of Public Safety and you will be answering more questions and paying lawyers more than Hillary has, and may end up outta business if you aren't following every one of the laws concerning the usage/storage/disposal of anything considered a chemical treatment.
You could be in bigger trouble than Tom could ever think of being in. The US laws and the local laws concerning proper chemical usage/storage/disposal especially in a neighborhood environment are far more formidable than any import laws.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programing,
Dave

This could be interesting. I think the EPA laws concerning the type of legalities you're describing, are "luckily" only about 9 million pages long. ;)
j2

RiverCity
07-27-2016, 03:31 AM
So AFTER the fact YOU have claimed over and over that Tom HAS broken the law.... and you will report him if you have to...you now say the above...isn't that kinda back pedaling? YOU made accusations and stated as fact that Tom was in violation of the laws, now you say...I'll look later?
If you are as honest and forth coming as you say then....
How about answering these next questions....HONESTLY, are your tips that you sell basically Altered elkmasters, lepros, and triangles, and the treatment you soak these in...can you release the MDS sheets so we as intallers know what chemical cocktail you are exposing us to and are you doing this in the USA and are you following all proper procedures while doing this chemical treatment, including not exposing the outside environment and fellow Americans to the fumes of the chemicals you are using, Are you doing it in an industrial classified section of the city or are you home brewing? Toxic waste disposal is another issue...Are you dumping the solution down a drain and poisoning our water tables or paying a waste treatment company with proper handling certs to handle the toxic waste you need to remove? How many more questions do you want fired your way? Trust me, one call to your own cities' Dept. of Public Safety and you will be answering more questions and paying lawyers more than Hillary has, and may end up outta business if you aren't following every one of the laws concerning the usage/storage/disposal of anything considered a chemical treatment.
You could be in bigger trouble than Tom could ever think of being in. The US laws and the local laws concerning proper chemical usage/storage/disposal especially in a neighborhood environment are far more formidable than any import laws.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programing,
Dave


http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/K219Vu71JPuuC17aE85IZg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztxPTg1/http://globalfinance.zenfs.com/en_us/Finance/US_AFTP_SILICONALLEY_H_LIVE/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson_drops_the-6b234a52dcaa365da9c2fb61ad90a26a

bbb
07-27-2016, 05:25 AM
tom
i feel for you to have to go thru this in my opinion unwarrated barrage
only the strong survive....:)
no good deed (great tips...great price) goes unpunished:mad:
i am sorry

cueguy
07-27-2016, 08:20 AM
I can't believe all the !$%W#!**!^$W's here that want to knock down a great guy that tries his best to give everyone a fantastic product at a great price with the BEST customer support out there!
What is wrong with you people?
If you are that kind of person - I hope Karma comes around to you soon!!!
That is all...

cueman
07-27-2016, 08:28 AM
Mine mushroom slightly after playing for a couple of days. I trim them and they never mushroom again. I'm voting pilot error too. Best layered tips I've played, and I've tried most.

Press them a little in the vise before installing and you will usually eliminate having to go back and trim them again.

cueman
07-27-2016, 08:33 AM
Incidentally, Tom, i just tried a Pro tip. I don't like soft tips, but I really don't mind this. It's not mushy, IMHO, but does definitely take a bit of speed off the ball. I'm liking it for straight pool. Feels like I can let my stroke out a bit without over hitting the cue ball.

I still like the medium best, but I'll leave this Pro on a while and see how it goes.

The Pro once pressed has proven to be my favorite.

pathman
07-27-2016, 08:38 AM
The Pro once pressed has proven to be my favorite.

I agree, a little pressing ahead of time has stopped a LOT of the mushrooming. I've been installing and playing Tom's tips from pretty much the beginning and I haven't found a better value. I do really like the Zan tips that I've recently played but not for nearly 10x the cost of Tom's tips. I just bought a three pack of the new pro's and am anxiously awaiting there arrival. The mushrooming is a little irritating but for the price and playability it's a small trade-off in my opinion.

john coloccia
07-27-2016, 09:18 AM
The Pro once pressed has proven to be my favorite.

I'll need to try that. I think I posted somewhere else about this, but now that I have a couple of weeks on it, I found that the Pro just took too much off the cue ball speed, and for long shots where I need to stop or draw back I found that I really need to stroke quite hard in order to get what I need. Maybe it will harden up enough after pressing to be just right. That said, I like the hit. It's actually a lot firmer than I expected.

spktur
07-27-2016, 11:40 AM
Sometimes its best to take the high road. Let your product speak for itself. I have never tried Ki-Tech tips to give an opinion but it seems the Ultra Skins must be doing better in the sales department. :cool:

Lenny, you're right, a person is a lot better off worrying about their own business rather than what the competition is doing. When you bad mouth your competition you generally don't impress the customer base much regarding them because the customer just figures you're jealous or are having trouble competing. Also you run the risk of alienating the customer with your actions just as after all this mess I would never buy or recommend anything from Renfro.

GoldCrown
07-27-2016, 11:49 AM
a person is a lot better off worrying about their own business rather than what the competition is doing. When you bad mouth your competition you generally don't impress the customer base much regarding them because the customer just figures you're jealous or are having trouble competing. Also you run the risk of alienating the customer with your actions just as after all this mess.

Yea...there is enough business for everyone,
When I was in business I had a great number of Friendly Competitors....we supported and helped each other.

I dealt with Tom once and would deal again...and recommend.

cueman
07-27-2016, 01:44 PM
I'll need to try that. I think I posted somewhere else about this, but now that I have a couple of weeks on it, I found that the Pro just took too much off the cue ball speed, and for long shots where I need to stop or draw back I found that I really need to stroke quite hard in order to get what I need. Maybe it will harden up enough after pressing to be just right. That said, I like the hit. It's actually a lot firmer than I expected.

If you like the Medium before it hardens up some from play then you should really like the Pro if you press it first.

Dave38
07-29-2016, 12:40 AM
This could be interesting. I think the EPA laws concerning the type of legalities you're describing, are "luckily" only about 9 million pages long. ;)
j2

Considering he was the one to claim Tom broke laws etc....Then he should answer the same questions, as local environment laws being broken in his own back yard take center stage, then pile on some Fed. EPA regs, etc.....Where is Renfro's response? Is his stuff actually USA made? IS it being done according to the local and National Regs? Does he have ALL the proper paperwork and permits/licenses? Is he paying all the taxes that a USA based company should be paying? If He's so upstanding and FORETH coming....we should have had an answer, don't we deserve that much from him???
The silence is deafening.
Dave

Dave38
07-29-2016, 01:03 AM
So after going to the Outsville website and after getting a warm fuzzy story, no pictures of the actual tips he sells...hmmmm. Go to Tom's page and you see the tips in all forms that he sells...Hmmmm
I am never a fan of someone that has a product to sell, but you can't see it til you buy it...sorta reminds me of Obamacare I guess...
Dave

Bank it
07-29-2016, 01:08 AM
Considering he was the one to claim Tom broke laws etc....Then he should answer the same questions, as local environment laws being broken in his own back yard take center stage, then pile on some Fed. EPA regs, etc.....Where is Renfro's response? Is his stuff actually USA made? IS it being done according to the local and National Regs? Does he have ALL the proper paperwork and permits/licenses? Is he paying all the taxes that a USA based company should be paying? If He's so upstanding and FORETH coming....we should have had an answer, don't we deserve that much from him???
The silence is deafening.
Dave



Where is he? Considering the poignant 1st post you made questioning his tip "cooking" at home he's probably staring at those drums of chemicals in a cold sweat.

His tips are just like a lot of players I met in the late 80's & early 90's. Nothing special, just jacked up on chemicals.

john coloccia
07-29-2016, 01:20 AM
But this is still not fixed:

http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/accessories/cuetips/ultraskin-layered-tips.html

pocket
07-29-2016, 12:03 PM
Alright boys, line up. Keep it in order now everyone will get a chance:

:deadhorse:

ZeroSkylineX
07-31-2016, 08:03 AM
Tom is having a buy one get one free sale for one week with a minimum order of 10 tips. This sale will no longer happen again in the future:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=432158

Kickin' Chicken
07-31-2016, 08:59 AM
Tom is having a buy one get one free sale for one week with a minimum order of 10 tips. This sale will no longer happen again in the future:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=432158

when you first posted this thread I thought it night be a veiled sales thread made to look informative but gave it the benefit of doubt.

with the above post, after there being no activity in this thread for a few days, I'm now more sure it belongs in the For Sale section.

jmo

best,
brian kc

ZeroSkylineX
07-31-2016, 10:37 AM
when you first posted this thread I thought it night be a veiled sales thread made to look informative but gave it the benefit of doubt.

with the above post, after there being no activity in this thread for a few days, I'm now more sure it belongs in the For Sale section.

jmo

best,
brian kc

A discussion thread can mean anything, that includes promotions as long as it's still related to the topic. I am not Chris Renfro posting monthly draws or giveaways. I am in no way affiliated with Tom whatsoever, I pass on interesting news to fellow members that I haven't seen discussed yet. Originally the thread was intended to discuss the make of the tip, reviews and questions regarding possible AZ member special prices. But TheRenfro chimed in and turned it into a national debate which changed it off topic. As of now, the promotion I mentioned earlier is only for AZ members and it's a one time sale. I did my due diligence as a member to help others in the community, not to advertise another company.

Tramp Steamer
07-31-2016, 01:32 PM
Then maybe you won't mind apologizing to Tom for getting a shitload of abuse from three jerk-offs that he neither asked for, no deserved.

billiardthought
07-31-2016, 03:16 PM
Then maybe you won't mind apologizing to Tom for getting a shitload of abuse from three jerk-offs that he neither asked for, no deserved.

Are you suggesting he needs to apologize for how others act?

Kickin' Chicken
07-31-2016, 03:30 PM
A discussion thread can mean anything, that includes promotions as long as it's still related to the topic. I am not Chris Renfro posting monthly draws or giveaways. I am in no way affiliated with Tom whatsoever, I pass on interesting news to fellow members that I haven't seen discussed yet. Originally the thread was intended to discuss the make of the tip, reviews and questions regarding possible AZ member special prices. But TheRenfro chimed in and turned it into a national debate which changed it off topic. As of now, the promotion I mentioned earlier is only for AZ members and it's a one time sale. I did my due diligence as a member to help others in the community, not to advertise another company.

I think this is very reasonable and thanks for explaining.

And, to be honest, there were probably more than enough policemen in this thread without me.

I don't know Tom Hays but he does come across as a sincere guy with a well liked product.

best,
brian kc

Tramp Steamer
07-31-2016, 03:36 PM
Are you suggesting he needs to apologize for how others act?

Damn right! He's responsible for this thread. It's on his shoulders how others respond, and to whom they respond.
If you'll look at Article 147, Sub-Section 8, Paragraph 3.842, of the Arizona Billiards Forum By-laws regarding the conduct of posters, you'll see that I'm right.
These rules have been taken much too lightly of late, and something needed to said, so I said it. :p

bbb
07-31-2016, 06:00 PM
[QUOTE=Tramp Steamer;5624732]Then maybe you won't mind apologizing to Tom for getting a shitload of abuse from three jerk-offs
that he neither asked for, nor deserved.[/QU
I think the bolded members alluded to above also owe tom an apology

Tramp Steamer
07-31-2016, 06:39 PM
[QUOTE=Tramp Steamer;5624732]Then maybe you won't mind apologizing to Tom for getting a shitload of abuse from three jerk-offs
that he neither asked for, nor deserved.[/QU
I think the bolded members alluded to above also owe tom an apology


My response to the OP was mostly tongue-in-cheek, but you make a good point.
Tom, however, has departed the forum, possibly never to return so any apologies from them would be moot.
Also, I'm a bit taken aback by KC's reference to forum policemen. There were several of us here who stood up for Tom when he was being set upon by the Gang of Three. I don't consider that policing, but rather evening up the odds for a friend. :)

ZeroSkylineX
07-31-2016, 11:30 PM
I think this is very reasonable and thanks for explaining.

And, to be honest, there were probably more than enough policemen in this thread without me.

I don't know Tom Hays but he does come across as a sincere guy with a well liked product.

best,
brian kc

No worries, it happens. I've received a lot of knowledge from this forum and I do what I can to contribute back to the community. I personally would find it selfish if I'm aware of a promotion and I kept it to myself but that's just me.

If you haven't tried his tips (Ultraskins or SIB), I highly recommend you try them. They have a lot praise for its quality (especially his AZ member only price) among a large number of members here.

Tramp Steamer
08-01-2016, 07:21 AM
when you first posted this thread I thought it night be a veiled sales thread made to look informative but gave it the benefit of doubt.
with the above post, after there being no activity in this thread for a few days, I'm now more sure it belongs in the For Sale section.
jmo
best,
brian kc


Damn, Brian. This smacks of forum policing. Does it not? :smile:

Kickin' Chicken
08-01-2016, 07:59 AM
[QUOTE=bbb;5624939]


My response to the OP was mostly tongue-in-cheek, but you make a good point.
Tom, however, has departed the forum, possibly never to return so any apologies from them would be moot.
Also, I'm a bit taken aback by KC's reference to forum policemen. There were several of us here who stood up for Tom when he was being set upon by the Gang of Three. I don't consider that policing, but rather evening up the odds for a friend. :)

Tramp;

this is one of the classic examples where meaning became lost on an internet post.

My reference to policemen on this thread didn't include you at all. I can see now where you might have thought so, though. To put it as plainly as I can, I was put off with Chris Renfro's campaign for truth in labeling seemingly at the expense of a guy (Tom) who seems like a very nice fellow and an asset to the pool industry. And, even moreso, when after learning he was unsure on the very law he is accusing Tom of breaking. :rolleyes:

Me and you are good and, as you know, we go back a l-o-n-g way and have never had and difficulties... well, except maybe that one drunken weekend in Reno where we both competed for two-tooth Sally's affection. :eek: :wink: :love: :lovies:

best,
brian kc

Tramp Steamer
08-01-2016, 10:30 AM
[QUOTE=Tramp Steamer;5624964]

Tramp;
this is one of the classic examples where meaning became lost on an internet post.
My reference to policemen on this thread didn't include you at all. I can see now where you might have thought so, though. To put it as plainly as I can, I was put off with Chris Renfro's campaign for truth in labeling seemingly at the expense of a guy (Tom) who seems like a very nice fellow and an asset to the pool industry. And, even moreso, when after learning he was unsure on the very law he is accusing Tom of breaking. :rolleyes:
Me and you are good and, as you know, we go back a l-o-n-g way and have never had and difficulties... well, except maybe that one drunken weekend in Reno where we both competed for two-tooth Sally's affection. :eek: :wink: :love: :lovies:
best,
brian kc


Well, alrighty then.
By-the-way, when we gonna do that hot sweaty gorilla sex thing. Or, is it hot sweaty guerrilla sex? :smile:

pt109
08-01-2016, 11:16 AM
KC, I think the Tramp would make an excellent policeman....

429917

Tramp Steamer
08-01-2016, 02:38 PM
KC, I think the Tramp would make an excellent policeman....

429917


I kinda like the mustache.
Oh yeah. Tell KC I have to wait a bit before I can give him a greenie. :smile:

Dave-Kat
08-01-2016, 04:47 PM
Jeez not sure what to think after gleaning over this post. Cops, Robbers, Tossers? Any trusted non-TH related member honestly playing these new tips that can give a real honest opinion of their findings on these 'new' tips they care to share ?

Cheers,

-Kat,

TomHay
08-01-2016, 04:53 PM
You know for the most part I have stayed out of this, you questioning who I am just was the straw that broke the camels back. SALES OVER Dave[KAT

Jeez not sure what to think after gleaning over this post. Cops, Robbers, Tossers? Any trusted non-TH related member honestly playing these new tips that can give a real honest opinion of their findings on these 'new' tips they care to share ?

Cheers,

-Kat,

lfigueroa
08-01-2016, 04:54 PM
Jeez not sure what to think after gleaning over this post. Cops, Robbers, Tossers? Any trusted non-TH related member honestly playing these new tips that can give a real honest opinion of their findings on these 'new' tips they care to share ?

Cheers,

-Kat,


It just so happens that I am right at the point of needing a new tip. (I am attempting to short-circuit my usual tip failure one week before the DCC :-) So I will order some TH tips and install one of them with 48 hours of receipt and review here 48 hours later. So like maybe a week from now if all goes well.

In any case YMMV.

Lou Figueroa

Dave-Kat
08-01-2016, 05:29 PM
Thank you Lou. You I trust. Please follow through once you crack some racks.

Not sure about my post and why it was the 'straw is the straw broke the camels back' SALE OVER comment from Mr. Hay ???? I was not knocking you Tom, your product or services.

Cheers,

-Kat,

gregnice37
08-01-2016, 05:35 PM
Got my 2nd set of 10 in the mail today. Either my mailman stole the 1st 10 or put it in the wrong box & shotty neighbors just discard the package, but i cant wait to try one out. Will be shooting thurs, hopefully then.

TomHay
08-01-2016, 05:40 PM
Affiliated with TH??????????, Talking about this thread being a lead on for the sale

Lou, you I trust"""""""""""" I am sure you can but search Tom Hay and cue tip reviews and find me as a bad guy somewhere.

You can't get the leather for this tip for my sale price and it is not just you a few other on this thread that I had nothing to do with starting

Cheers.

Tom Hay

Thank you Lou. You I trust. Please follow through once you crack some racks.

Not sure about my post and why it was the 'straw is the straw broke the camels back' SALE OVER comment from Mr. Hay ???? I was not knocking you Tom, your product or services.

Cheers,

-Kat,

lfigueroa
08-01-2016, 06:47 PM
Affiliated with TH??????????, Talking about this thread being a lead on for the sale

Lou, you I trust"""""""""""" I am sure you can but search Tom Hay and cue tip reviews and find me as a bad guy somewhere.

You can't get the leather for this tip for my sale price and it is not just you a few other on this thread that I had nothing to do with starting

Cheers.

Tom Hay


Tom, not sure I quite follow you but I ordered a 10 pack tonight. Didn't ask for or get the AZ discount -- more than happy to pay full price. As I noted via eBay I like the old Moori mediums and the newer G2 mediums which I think play close. You can send me whatever you think is closest and I will review here after I get them.

Lou Figueroa

lfigueroa
08-05-2016, 06:15 AM
Got the tips late yesterday. (Tom, thanks for the extras.)

I'll install one this weekend and play with it Monday & Tuesday and report back. And just for the record: I am no tip guru, just an average player who has played with a wide variety of tips going back to the French Champion tips in the 60's, up to the Mooris, Kamuis, and G2s nowadays. Whatever I say, YMMV.

One question for Tom: do you recommend one side or the other as the glue side?

Lou Figueroa

john coloccia
08-05-2016, 06:38 AM
Jeez not sure what to think after gleaning over this post. Cops, Robbers, Tossers? Any trusted non-TH related member honestly playing these new tips that can give a real honest opinion of their findings on these 'new' tips they care to share ?

Cheers,

-Kat,

Who's TH related, exactly? This entire thread is just chock full of nonsense.

billiardthought
08-05-2016, 06:47 AM
Got the tips late yesterday. (Tom, thanks for the extras.)

I'll install one this weekend and play with it Monday & Tuesday and report back. And just for the record: I am no tip guru, just an average player who has played with a wide variety of tips going back to the French Champion tips in the 60's, up to the Mooris, Kamuis, and G2s nowadays. Whatever I say, YMMV.

One question for Tom: do you recommend one side or the other as the glue side?

Lou Figueroa

If you ordered the SIB tips, there should be a side that shows a glue bottle

bbb
08-05-2016, 07:11 AM
Got the tips late yesterday. (Tom, thanks for the extras.)

I'll install one this weekend and play with it Monday & Tuesday and report back. And just for the record: I am no tip guru, just an average player who has played with a wide variety of tips going back to the French Champion tips in the 60's, up to the Mooris, Kamuis, and G2s nowadays. Whatever I say, YMMV.

One question for Tom: do you recommend one side or the other as the glue side?

Lou Figueroa

lou the side with the bottle i used as the glue side

430308

bbb
08-05-2016, 07:16 AM
got my tips quickly from tom
thanks
put a pro on one shaft and a medium on the other
figuring the soft would be somewhere in between for feel/hit
just a few hours play so far
no mushrooming
was surprised the pro was not "mushy" feeling
it is soft but not mushy
both hold chalk well and give you great feel for the cue ball
the medium as expected is firmer and more "crisp" also in sound as it strikes the cue ball
ALL IN ALL A GREAT TIP
I WOULD DEFINITELY RECOMMEND THESE TIPS ...:thumbup::thumbup:

lfigueroa
08-05-2016, 07:35 AM
If you ordered the SIB tips, there should be a side that shows a glue bottle


oh, that's what that is, lol. My bad. I thought it was like some kind of logo, a Molotov cocktail or something.

Lou Figueroa
symbol impaired

Jdm34
08-05-2016, 09:00 AM
I ordered a lot of 10 from ebay. Tom Hayes himself is selling them I got an email same day asking how I wanted the hardness broke down I got 3 pro 3 soft and 4 medium. I received them in the mail a few days later very prompt. So far I had a pro and soft installed. Im playing with the pro right now on a Z2 shaft hit is soft but not mushy shapes good holds chalk great and effortless spin. Overall it made me very confident in what I could do right away. I put the soft on a custom cue and the hit and grip is great will need to try a little more.


A LITTLE SIDE NOTE FROM READING PEOPLE THOUGHT THESE TIPS WERE DESGNED TO BE SIMILIAR TO THE OLD ORIGINAL MOORIS NOT 100% IF ITS TRUE BUT SOMEONE I KNEW AT THE POOL HALL TRIED IT AND SAID IT WAS A LOT LIKE THE HIT AND FEEL HE REMEMBERED AND WITH IN 3 HITS HE ASKED WERE TO GET ONE AND 3 HOURS LATER HE ASKED TO TRY AGAIN AND DIDNT WANT TO PUT MY CUE DOWN HE LIKED IT SO MUCH AND WE BOTH SHOT WITH SAMSARA UNILCO CUE WITH PREDATOR SHAT.

john coloccia
08-05-2016, 09:20 AM
oh, that's what that is, lol. My bad. I thought it was like some kind of logo, a Molotov cocktail or something.

Lou Figueroa
symbol impaired

First time I saw the original Moori glue bottle thing, I thought it was a little factory smoke stack, like maybe these things are made by Toyota, or something.

Billiardbills
08-05-2016, 06:34 PM
I'm using one now, they play very well.


Thank you,

Bill Lister
Cell/text- 239.823.0408
PayPal- Billiardbills@gmail.com
www.billiardbills.com
www.facebook.com/billiardbills

gregnice37
08-05-2016, 07:35 PM
Mine was installed today but wont get my shaft back til Thursday when i get home from vacation.

Kim Bye
08-07-2016, 01:25 PM
12 pages??
Bashing the competition is never good for business in the long run.
I have asked The Renfo if his tips are his own or if it's LePro, Triangle and Elkmasters "rebranded" he has not responded.
I don't understand how a guy who does not even make tips, can critisize a guy who does make his own tips...

lfigueroa
08-09-2016, 04:02 PM
Sooooo, I installed one of Tom's M tips on me Ginacue.

As has been mentioned, the tips are slightly green in color but as we all know, any decent amount of play turns them all dark anyway, so no matter. Cutting, the tip works nicely and has a vaguely suede-like consistency.

I cut off the top two layers to shorten the tip. In hindsight I probably would cut off three, perhaps four layers, next time around. The first day I played with it for just over three hours and the tip flatten significantly and flared out on the sides. The next day, after another trim and shaping, the tip played very nicely and I think i'll leave it on for a while to see how it goes. I'm guessing but it will probably need one more trim.

Overall, my personal conclusion is that these tips are probably the best value on the market. A nice layer tip at a very affordable price.

I'll probably be trying Tom's harder version in the future because I felt the M was a tad too soft for my liking. YMMV.

Lou Figueroa

TomHay
08-09-2016, 04:36 PM
Lou,

Thanks, I find this very infomative.

After watching you play on YouTube I knew The PRO was not for you. You hit each shot with authority.

I love your break shot in Straight Pool. The cue ball goes straight through the rack to the short rail and comes straight back to the middle of the table. That is not an easy shot to do and it keeps the cue ball from wandering for a scratch or from getting eaten up in a cluster.

The more I learn from the players the more I can adjust.

Thanks,
Tom


Sooooo, I installed one of Tom's M tips on me Ginacue.

As has been mentioned, the tips are slightly green in color but as we all know, any decent amount of play turns them all dark anyway, so no matter. Cutting, the tip works nicely and has a vaguely suede-like consistency.

I cut off the top two layers to shorten the tip. In hindsight I probably would cut off three, perhaps four layers, next time around. The first day I played with it for just over three hours and the tip flatten significantly and flared out on the sides. The next day, after another trim and shaping, the tip played very nicely and I think i'll leave it on for a while to see how it goes. I'm guessing but it will probably need one more trim.

Overall, my personal conclusion is that these tips are probably the best value on the market. A nice layer tip at a very affordable price.

I'll probably be trying Tom's harder version in the future because I felt the M was a tad too soft for my liking. YMMV.

Lou Figueroa

Dave-Kat
08-09-2016, 09:20 PM
Thanks Lou and all the others who responded with their findings and opinions. The new models sound like an excellent value, like Tom's regular tip's.

-Kat,

HollyWood
08-09-2016, 09:38 PM
same tips elk master for like 30 yrs. just hit the ball busta says. good luck tom. send me a sample or two. thanks in advance for any reply. mark

lakeman77
08-19-2016, 08:40 PM
I just got some from Tom, soft and very soft and put on a very soft, love the way it plays, great tips, great price.
thanks Tom !!