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Tommy-D
07-27-2016, 12:29 AM
In a conversation the other day,2 of my buddies were discussing the push-out in rotation games,and I believe both of them to be wrong.

One said on a push you could only move the lowest-numbered object ball,the other said that you can actually MAKE the ball and either spot it,or it stays down and play resumes from there.

I have always been led to believe that even moving the lowest ball on a push is a foul,and definitely if you call a push and make the ball.

I can't think of anything but a one-in-a-million scenario where that would even make sense tactically.

Who is right? Tommy D.

RiverCity
07-27-2016, 12:48 AM
On a push, as long as there are no obvious fouls (scratching, or jumping balls off table etc), you can hit and or pocket any ball, with no rail requirements. The opponent then has the option. If you do pocket the 9 it spots. :thumbup:

greyghost
07-27-2016, 12:56 AM
I have no idea about league play....but it's perfectly legal to say call push. pocket a hanging 9. Because the say re one and two are dead nut to make it.....then it spots up. You can hit any ball and do anything. Just so long as you say push.

It's not a foul. The only ball that spots if you "push" it in the hole is the 9.

This at least takes a quantity of the luck of the layout that occurred after the break and let's the shooter try to nullify any "lucky advantage" if you choose wisely.

It's the same reason why 8 ball played where you take what you make and 8 on break counts is straight goofy....8 ball is not meant to have luck really play factors in either. You break. The spread and makes are basically luck ins. Total random. So it's still open....then you pick what you prefer will be advantageous....run out. Then pocket 8......if you could combo it early then the apa and bar rules would make sense.

In 8 ball this all came from quarter tables


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nick B
07-27-2016, 12:56 AM
Chuck is correct and generally when a handicap is played with any wild balls are also spotted.

Example I'm giving player B the wild 8 and I push and make the 8. It spots.


Regards

Nick B

RiverCity
07-27-2016, 12:59 AM
Chuck is correct and generally when a handicap is played with any wild balls are also spotted.

Example I'm giving player B the wild 8 and I push and make the 8. It spots.


Regards

Nick B

Bingo, and it should also be mentioned that you can legally push and hit nothing as well.

Tommy-D
07-27-2016, 01:17 AM
I knew about being able to pocket other balls including the 9 on a pushout,etc.

At times,that is your best move strategically.

In this case however,I'm referring specifically to the lowest-numbered ball in play at the time in 9 or 10 ball.

In their discussion,the 2 ball was the lowest-numbered ball. From there,I've always been told you can't pocket the 2 on a push or even move it,and it not be a foul.

One of them says you can call push,make the 2,leaving your opponent on the 3 or whatever,the other says you can relocate it,but not make it. Tommy D.

RiverCity
07-27-2016, 01:19 AM
I knew about being able to pocket other balls including the 9 on a pushout,etc.

At times,that is your best move strategically.

In this case however,I'm referring specifically to the lowest-numbered ball in play at the time in 9 or 10 ball.

In their discussion,the 2 ball was the lowest-numbered ball. From there,I've always been told you can't pocket the 2 on a push or even move it,and it not be a foul.

One of them says you can call push,make the 2,leaving your opponent on the 3 or whatever,the other says you can relocate it,but not make it. Tommy D.

You can make any ball including the 9, but only the 9 spots. Low ball, any ball, doesnt matter.

bral
07-27-2016, 04:52 AM
I knew about being able to pocket other balls including the 9 on a pushout,etc.

At times,that is your best move strategically.

In this case however,I'm referring specifically to the lowest-numbered ball in play at the time in 9 or 10 ball.

In their discussion,the 2 ball was the lowest-numbered ball. From there,I've always been told you can't pocket the 2 on a push or even move it,and it not be a foul.

One of them says you can call push,make the 2,leaving your opponent on the 3 or whatever,the other says you can relocate it,but not make it. Tommy D.

They were just misinformed. As others here have stated, you can "push" any ball on the table, whether it's the low ball or not.

Dockter
07-27-2016, 08:27 AM
Maybe I'm just confused here but why would you push and hit the lowest ball? The only reason I can think of is if you make it, but would there be any other reason if you have a shot on your ball?

Jaden
07-27-2016, 08:46 AM
Maybe I'm just confused here but why would you push and hit the lowest ball? The only reason I can think of is if you make it, but would there be any other reason if you have a shot on your ball?

If you can make the lowest ball, I don't see any reason why you would push, but you can push and make any ball, but if you call a push, even if you make the lowest ball, it's the incoming players option to choose to shoot from there, but NOT BIH and no foul occurred.

Jaden

alstl
07-27-2016, 09:04 AM
4-4
Push-out After the Break
1. If there was no foul on the break, the player taking the first shot after the break has the
option to shoot a push-out. On a push-out:
a.
you must notify your opponent before the shot and your opponent must
acknowledge your intention;
b.
the cue ball is not required to contact the lowest numbered ball first, or
any object ball at all;
c.
no ball is required to contact a cushion
d.
all other rules and fouls still apply.
2. Any object balls except the 10-ball that are pocketed on a push-out remain pocketed.
If the 10-ball is pocketed it is spotted.
3. After a push-out without a foul, your opponent may:
c.
accept the table in position and shoot;
d.
require you to shoot again with the table in position.
If you push-out and foul, your opponent receives ball in hand.


Print that out and give it to your buddies.

bazkook
07-27-2016, 01:26 PM
If you can make the lowest ball, I don't see any reason why you would push, but you can push and make any ball, but if you call a push, even if you make the lowest ball, it's the incoming players option to choose to shoot from there, but NOT BIH and no foul occurred.

Jaden

I agree with you. It makes very little tactical sense to make or even try to hit the the lowest ball on the table on a push out. Maybe someone thinks that if the next object ball is in a tough spot, they can just make the current object ball and assume that their opponent tries a crazy low percentage shot on the next ball. This might work in league play where some people do not know the rules of play or meaning of the word defense but against someone who has half a brain, this move would be pointless.
Once I saw someone who has been playing pool much longer than me call a push out and shoot safe on the object ball. Unsurprisingly the opponent gave the shot back to the original shooter. I do not know what was going through the original shooter's mind but I felt like he should know better.

cue4me
07-27-2016, 01:27 PM
If you can make the lowest ball, I don't see any reason why you would push, but you can push and make any ball, but if you call a push, even if you make the lowest ball, it's the incoming players option to choose to shoot from there, but NOT BIH and no foul occurred.

Jaden
Playing 9-ball you break and make the 6-ball, the one ball lies in the jaws of the corner pocket and the cue ball winds up in the middle of the table, two inches behind the 8-ball, lined up for a dead combination on the one. It would be realistic to call a push, shoot the combination and play position so that there is not an easy shot on the two.

bazkook
07-27-2016, 01:53 PM
Playing 9-ball you break and make the 6-ball, the one ball lies in the jaws of the corner pocket and the cue ball winds up in the middle of the table, two inches behind the 8-ball, lined up for a dead combination on the one. It would be realistic to call a push, shoot the combination and play position so that there is not an easy shot on the two.

Then all your opponent has to do is give the shot back to you and force you to make a good shot or leave him or her an open shot. If the next object ball is a really tough position, IMO it would be better to roll out for a jump shot. Then your opponent could give the shot back to you and you could try to do your best to make the object ball and give yourself better position on the next ball or your opponent could try something brave and hook himself or herself and or make a good shot and get position.

RussPrince
07-27-2016, 02:55 PM
possible the lowest ball is a hangar but no good option to get to the next ball. however making it could lend itself to a good push position for the next ball... i could see it happening, but obviously would be pretty rare

cubswin
07-27-2016, 06:12 PM
I knew about being able to pocket other balls including the 9 on a pushout,etc.

At times,that is your best move strategically.

In this case however,I'm referring specifically to the lowest-numbered ball in play at the time in 9 or 10 ball.

In their discussion,the 2 ball was the lowest-numbered ball. From there,I've always been told you can't pocket the 2 on a push or even move it,and it not be a foul.

One of them says you can call push,make the 2,leaving your opponent on the 3 or whatever,the other says you can relocate it,but not make it. Tommy D.

The way I've always played a push, I could make the 2, it stays down and the opposing player can then make me shoot again if he wants.

Only fouls typically would be scratching, jumping a ball off table, or making a double hit on cue ball. The ball off table tends to get played differently in different places, some places it is ball in hand, in others it is lost of shot but no ball in hand.

cubswin
07-27-2016, 06:13 PM
Then all your opponent has to do is give the shot back to you and force you to make a good shot or leave him or her an open shot. If the next object ball is a really tough position, IMO it would be better to roll out for a jump shot. Then your opponent could give the shot back to you and you could try to do your best to make the object ball and give yourself better position on the next ball or your opponent could try something brave and hook himself or herself and or make a good shot and get position.

And hopefully you pushed the ball where you can play a safety instead of trying to make the next ball.

bazkook
07-28-2016, 01:03 PM
And hopefully you pushed the ball where you can play a safety instead of trying to make the next ball.

If you are playing a decent opponent and you leave a chance at a safety then your opponent will probably play it instead of giving it back. Like someone else said there may be a rare circumstance in which it would be beneficial to pocket the lowest number ball but I have never personally witnessed it in professional play. Everyone has their own playing style though and each player may make different decisions. :)