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poolscholar
07-28-2017, 11:20 AM
This will be my last BCA Vegas trip for a while. It’s been my favorite tournament for years but it has really gone downhill.

Poor payouts. Details in other posts, but the payouts are lacking for a national tournament. I don't care about winning my entry fee back or matches worth a 20 dollar difference. On site sign up fees are too high as well.

Unprofessional refs. Of course there is the now famous Melling cue ball cleaning incident. Sadly, I saw the same thing happen during another match that was running next to mine. Ref just picks up the cue ball to clean it without marking the spot. I saw refs walk in front of people’s shots when they could have easily stopped. One night I was playing a match, it was late and quiet with only a few people around. While I was running out, a ref comes up to the table next to me and start putting balls into the pockets to clear the table (ball return is loud). For fs sake, leave the players in peace. Another puzzler I witnessed...both players take a break in the middle of their match, they come back the guys chalk went missing. Apparently, a ref had come over and taken the guys chalk from the table, not checking if there was a match in progress. I saw a couple of questionable calls as well. I was not confident in calling a ref to my match if I needed one.

Bad scheduling and planning. My singles 8 ball started on Sat, I got a bye so cool, I don’t play until Sunday. I play 7:30 Sunday, which is odd since I haven’t played all weekend yet, but fine. However, they schedule matches back to back at 7:30, and 9 and then at 10:30. This is not enough time for a race to 7 because one slow match screws up everything. This is a big tournament, people get nervous and play slow. And of course, I get a very slow player my first round and end up losing. I’m already annoyed losing to this slow player and now somehow the bracket is even farther behind then me and I’m waiting for other matches to complete. Well its now after 11pm and I was supposed to play at 10:30pm. I hear an announcement to check the brackets because 10:30 matches may have been moved to the next day at 9am. Thank god I can sleep. Well nope my match still lists 10:30pm. I look at the same level on the loser’s side, almost all the losers side matches were moved and are now being played at 9am, except for me and a few others at 10:30. It’s almost midnight and I finally get an opponent. Funny, the table we were supposed to play on still has a match on it, so we go to the tournament desk. I complain and ask him to move our match to the morning like the most of our bracket and the guy refuses and tells us we have to play and reassigns us a new table. Needless to say I’m a bit pissed from this and also from losing to Mr.slow man earlier. I play bad and lose, two and out. You might say, well there are hundreds of players, they can only do some much, etc…well this was the Platinum division, with only 160 players. They could have played more matches on Sat or earlier Sunday, but they tried to stretch out this tournament multiple days (greed), but then rush through it with bad planning.

Little pro presence, bad stream. Nobody wants to watch bad players on the stream with bad commentary. It’s almost like they were avoiding putting good matches on the stream. My roommate was really hoping to watch more matches in the arena or in the hotel room between matches, but didn’t happen often.

More reasons. No action room. Bad overpriced food. No outside food or drink. Not cleaning the balls or tables (some with new cloth, very fast and clean balls, others very dirty). I saw Mark Griffen a few times, always laughing and smiling but maybe he doesn't realize his event is going downhill? or maybe he's smiling cause he's making so much money anyway? It was an interesting contrast with the poker tournament finishing across the hallway, where guys are cashing for millions on the final table.

Positively Ralf
07-28-2017, 11:25 AM
Sounds like you had a disaster of a week.

Honestly, I'm sure for every bad story like this, there will be another person with a good story. So it's really hit or miss.

Black-Balled
07-28-2017, 11:29 AM
It aint for everyone.

Too many words, bu i did note you griped about being scheduled to play too soon, then about the start being delayed. Kinda sounds like you are playing both sides of the matter, no?

Yuo might feel better by viewing the issue as an error correction. Instead of 2 wrongs, ultimately no wrong...?:shrug:

poolscholar
07-28-2017, 11:34 AM
It aint for everyone.

Too many words, bu i did note you griped about being scheduled to play too soon, then about the start being delayed. Kinda sounds like you are playing both sides of the matter, no?

Yuo might feel better by viewing the issue as an error correction. Instead of 2 wrongs, ultimately no wrong...?:shrug:

Not quite sure what you mean, I don't like playing when I should be sleeping. I expect small local weekend tournaments to run very late into the night. But even most of those tournament generally don't schedule 9am matches after a late night of matches.

Black-Balled
07-28-2017, 11:46 AM
Not quite sure what you mean, I don't like playing when I should be sleeping. I expect small local weekend tournaments to run very late into the night. But even most of those tournament generally don't schedule 9am matches after a late night of matches.

You complained match scheduled for1030 was too close to the prior, timewise.

You also complaind it was 11 and you were waiting for your 1030.

Early matches arent the norm, i agree...but i have certainly been told to return early, when there were a lotta players

garczar
07-28-2017, 11:51 AM
This will be my last BCA Vegas trip for a while. Itís been my favorite tournament for years but it has really gone downhill.

Poor payouts. Details in other posts, but the payouts are lacking for a national tournament. I don't care about winning my entry fee back or matches worth a 20 dollar difference. On site sign up fees are too high as well.

Unprofessional refs. Of course there is the now famous Melling cue ball cleaning incident. Sadly, I saw the same thing happen during another match that was running next to mine. Ref just picks up the cue ball to clean it without marking the spot. I saw refs walk in front of peopleís shots when they could have easily stopped. One night I was playing a match, it was late and quiet with only a few people around. While I was running out, a ref comes up to the table next to me and start putting balls into the pockets to clear the table (ball return is loud). For fs sake, leave the players in peace. Another puzzler I witnessed...both players take a break in the middle of their match, they come back the guys chalk went missing. Apparently, a ref had come over and taken the guys chalk from the table, not checking if there was a match in progress. I saw a couple of questionable calls as well. I was not confident in calling a ref to my match if I needed one.

Bad scheduling and planning. My singles 8 ball started on Sat, I got a bye so cool, I donít play until Sunday. I play 7:30 Sunday, which is odd since I havenít played all weekend yet, but fine. However, they schedule matches back to back at 7:30, and 9 and then at 10:30. This is not enough time for a race to 7 because one slow match screws up everything. This is a big tournament, people get nervous and play slow. And of course, I get a very slow player my first round and end up losing. Iím already annoyed losing to this slow player and now somehow the bracket is even farther behind then me and Iím waiting for other matches to complete. Well its now after 11pm and I was supposed to play at 10:30pm. I hear an announcement to check the brackets because 10:30 matches may have been moved to the next day at 9am. Thank god I can sleep. Well nope my match still lists 10:30pm. I look at the same level on the loserís side, almost all the losers side matches were moved and are now being played at 9am, except for me and a few others at 10:30. Itís almost midnight and I finally get an opponent. Funny, the table we were supposed to play on still has a match on it, so we go to the tournament desk. I complain and ask him to move our match to the morning like the most of our bracket and the guy refuses and tells us we have to play and reassigns us a new table. Needless to say Iím a bit pissed from this and also from losing to Mr.slow man earlier. I play bad and lose, two and out. You might say, well there are hundreds of players, they can only do some much, etcÖwell this was the Platinum division, with only 160 players. They could have played more matches on Sat or earlier Sunday, but they tried to stretch out this tournament multiple days (greed), but then rush through it with bad planning.

Little pro presence, bad stream. Nobody wants to watch bad players on the stream with bad commentary. Itís almost like they were avoiding putting good matches on the stream. My roommate was really hoping to watch more matches in the arena or in the hotel room between matches, but didnít happen often.

More reasons. No action room. Bad overpriced food. No outside food or drink. Not cleaning the balls or tables (some with new cloth, very fast and clean balls, others very dirty). I saw Mark Griffen a few times, always laughing and smiling but maybe he doesn't realize his event is going downhill? or maybe he's smiling cause he's making so much money anyway? It was an interesting contrast with the poker tournament finishing across the hallway, where guys are cashing for millions on the final table.The am/stream was a disaster. Only those player's moms wanted to watch that crap. BCA Nat's used to be yearly goal and now its turned into somewhat of a joke.

cardiac kid
07-28-2017, 12:02 PM
Scholar,

Can certainly enpathise with you. My 9 PM match Saturday night actually started near Midnight. Seemed evey match I played was late starting including the Monday afternoon final.

I'm sure both Mr G and Ozzy are both aware of the problems facing the event. Think some of the problems lay in the inclusion of USAPL running concurrently. They take up tables. BCAPL has fewer tables to use. The WSOP final table took up even more space. Wonder if CSI is considering moving to Westgate. The US Bar Box is held there in December.

When I arrived in Vegas for the BCA event, wasn't worried about how much first place paid in the event I played in. More concerned about winning the first match. Never did the math but has anyone added the payouts for all 40 divisions and compare them to the pre-Rio days?

Which leads me to your first comment. Yes, I will be back next year. Wasn't going this year but fate interviened. Somehow I was rewarded for my attendence. Got to go back just to move up one place :D !

Lyn

Black-Balled
07-28-2017, 12:07 PM
I was rewarded for my attendence. Got to go back just to move up one place :D !

Lyn

A second place?

You are on a tear, sir. Nice.

Ghosst
07-28-2017, 12:08 PM
This will be my last BCA Vegas trip for a while. ...snip...

You just made me realize I should have scheduled my vacations better and gone down there. Strange the things you miss when you haven't played in a while...

cardiac kid
07-28-2017, 12:14 PM
The am/stream was a disaster. Only those player's moms wanted to watch that crap. BCA Nat's used to be yearly goal and now its turned into somewhat of a joke.

Got to disagree. The folks back in Rochester thought the stream of my two matches Monday night were great. Both pool rooms had the stream on all the big screens. Yes, some of the commentary was lame. If Fred "Cornerman" Agnir was doing the commentary, it was first class. The two folks who commented on my match were somewhat short of Fred's ability. Still did a good job, not great. Good. Rather have something than nothing IMHO.

Is this years event up to the standards of ten years ago? Sure were a lot more players back then. Think the quality of play has improved dramatically. Used to get a match or two against players who'ed rather gamble out front than play pool. Doesn't seem to happen like that anymore.

Lyn

sixpack
07-28-2017, 12:23 PM
I miss going to Vegas. Haven't been able to go much the last 10 years because it just comes around at a bad time of year for me to get away. Except for this year. This year I totally could have gone but wasn't thinking about it until too late.

garczar
07-28-2017, 02:04 PM
Got to disagree. The folks back in Rochester thought the stream of my two matches Monday night were great. Both pool rooms had the stream on all the big screens. Yes, some of the commentary was lame. If Fred "Cornerman" Agnir was doing the commentary, it was first class. The two folks who commented on my match were somewhat short of Fred's ability. Still did a good job, not great. Good. Rather have something than nothing IMHO.

Is this years event up to the standards of ten years ago? Sure were a lot more players back then. Think the quality of play has improved dramatically. Used to get a match or two against players who'ed rather gamble out front than play pool. Doesn't seem to happen like that anymore.

LynA couple matches I saw(very briefly, believe me) had less than 60 viewers. Really? Why even set-up the equipment. And don't even go down the officiating black-hole. Do the refs get any training? The whole event just doesn't have the appeal anymore. I like the big-table pro events but they need to be at the hotel. Griffs sucks as a tournament venue.

poolscholar
07-28-2017, 02:18 PM
You complained match scheduled for1030 was too close to the prior, timewise.

You also complaind it was 11 and you were waiting for your 1030.

Early matches arent the norm, i agree...but i have certainly been told to return early, when there were a lotta players

I think you're missing my point. I have no problem playing matches without much of a break. The reason the tournament bracket fell behind was they didn't plan enough time between matches. They had a multiple days for this tournament, they could have planned better to avoid this situation.

For example calculate the average time for a game, multiple by the maximum amount of games in a race, and then add a little extra buffer for slow play and breaks. Instead of just guessing and spacing matches by an hour and a half.

Race to 7
max games 13 * 8 min + 15 min break/buffer = 2 hour

If you want to get really "advanced" then you could plan for more time in early rounds, because of those normally go slower.

Sadly, I expect poor planning and horrible schedules for most tournaments, but this is a national championship with plenty of time. If someone thinks all the tables were in use all week, then you're wrong. They just don't know how to spread out tournaments well, a good software system would be able to figure this out.

TeeA
07-28-2017, 02:30 PM
Hey Lyn
APl accommodated singles playing in team events without realizing the impact on scheduling and as a result we paid a far dearer price then your starting late on Monday. Our 9ball team made it to the finals Monday night at 9:30pm. Could have been two more team matches in that it was a true double. We had to forfeit. Our flight was 11:40pm. Thought that would have been safe at the start of the week.
ps: you guys were sharing our tables....lol
TA

Johnny Rosato
07-28-2017, 02:41 PM
Lots of folks praising Kevin and Sherri Ross highly on their commentating. Nothing at all special with them, imo. They predict correctly a players shot about 1/2 the time, then say well, you can do it that way too. MOST of the time they have the correct score, but Kevin gets up pretty often to go make sure. They pretty much got it down pat about who's playing & most of the time the scoreboard with players/team is visible. Lots of oohing, ahhing, oooing, aawing & a few wows in each match, reminds me a lot of my grandkids at a July 4th fireworks show! lol

Johnny Rosato
07-28-2017, 03:27 PM
A couple matches I saw(very briefly, believe me) had less than 60 viewers. Really? Why even set-up the equipment. And don't even go down the officiating black-hole. Do the refs get any training? The whole event just doesn't have the appeal anymore. I like the big-table pro events but they need to be at the hotel. Griffs sucks as a tournament venue.
I believe they hired the refs from one of those day-labor places! lol

Justin Bergman
07-28-2017, 05:02 PM
This is one of the more professional events too but with that said that's why I'm always complaining how pool is just so bad... Pool commentators in general are the worst in any game, the payouts are the worst in any game not CSI in particular that's Derby or any other tournament. Everyone ask me why I don't play more tournaments this is why. They have tournaments in small town Missouri, Wisconcin, Louisiana, and other states that pay $10,000 for 1st with action and calcutta but nobody cares if you won that, they all think World Pool Masters or Challenge of Champions is a major event lol..., most of the best U.S. players don't play any tournaments they just gamble and I'm starting to go back that way unless something changes.

poolscholar
07-30-2017, 01:37 PM
Where's the payout thread?

cardiac kid
07-30-2017, 01:47 PM
Where's the payout thread?

Deleted for some reason. My best guess is it began by giving an incorrect view of the payouts and gave too many people a bad impression of CSI. By time the numbers were corrected, to many posters took the thread in a negative direction. As I said, JMHO.

Lyn

poolscholar
07-30-2017, 02:00 PM
Deleted for some reason. My best guess is it began by giving an incorrect view of the payouts and gave too many people a bad impression of CSI. By time the numbers were corrected, to many posters took the thread in a negative direction. As I said, JMHO.

Lyn

All is well! Nothing to see here!

cardiac kid
07-30-2017, 02:24 PM
Think I had the incorrect thread. Sorry. One of the Vegas threads was deleted for sure.

Lyn

ROB.M
07-31-2017, 11:52 AM
I was shown pictures of the table conditions at grifs...
The cloth was badly worn and the rack spots was so worn they'd looked to of not been replaced since the room grand opening....
This pool room is supposed to be world class and maintained by professionals....?

PS. The master rack spots give the simonis rack spots the 7out+breaks and a few games on the wire'


Rob.M

RSCA HOOLIGAN
07-31-2017, 03:04 PM
The RIO itself is the biggest problem !
high prices and bad food !

Also the tables were playing totally different , some cushions were bouncing like hell and on some tables i played screwshots were the outcome a stop shot was .

I heard that this year the contract with the RIO ended so i hope they didn't renew the contract .

NINEBALLART
07-31-2017, 09:50 PM
I had hoped so also but the flyers were up already for 2018 at the Rio...

How about allowing talking during the Scotch doubles matches....I don't mean like it has been but free talking all the time and I mean you could literally stop your partner in the middle of a shot and bring her back to talk it over....Players over did it with the coaching by talking and talking and talking.....Matches starting running way behind....1 1/2 hours to 2 hours behind....My Scotch Doubles match we had to play 2 of our own teams from our hometown league back to back to back...Could'nt believe it...This year was a total mess....

All divisions were way down in entries..Way down...They better get it together because there were a ton of unhappy people this year...

Several vendors were not there that have been there for years...Rooms were quiet and not crowded as usual....
This was my 20th straight year and the worst ever....
I'll still be there next year but I hope they see what they are doing and fix it...

fiftyyardline
07-31-2017, 10:06 PM
I'm also not a fan of the "able to talk all the time" new rule in scotch doubles. When the stronger partner can dictate how and what shot to play, it negates the advantage that an experienced team should have. Teams were often using the talking rule as a continuous time out after almost every shot - resulting in very slow play.

mchnhed
08-01-2017, 05:38 AM
Time (no pun) for a Match Clock like in Chess.

I'm also not a fan of the "able to talk all the time" new rule in scotch doubles. When the stronger partner can dictate how and what shot to play, it negates the advantage that an experienced team should have. Teams were often using the talking rule as a continuous time out after almost every shot - resulting in very slow play.

Mark Griffin
08-01-2017, 03:48 PM
The total numbers of this years event were very close to last years numbers. Every year we hear how everything is shrinking - but it is not true. Exhibitors come and go. We had several new one and a few old ones were not here. A couple have retired and other had 'situations' - to imply they 'skipped' this event is untrue and misleading.

I talk to the exhibitors every year. It was about the same as last year. I realize I have access to the real numbers. Hopefully this will help correct the errors in your info.

Mark Griffin

PS On a side note. The Rio is an excellent venue for our event. The room prices are better than anywhere else, there is no resort fee etc. All casinos have high prices, but the Rio is better than others. And there is no resort fee.

I had hoped so also but the flyers were up already for 2018 at the Rio...

All divisions were way down in entries..Way down...They better get it together because there were a ton of unhappy people this year...

Several vendors were not there that have been there for years...Rooms were quiet and not crowded as usual....
This was my 20th straight year and the worst ever....
I'll still be there next year but I hope they see what they are doing and fix it...

MOJOE
08-01-2017, 04:28 PM
I had a blast personally. Nothing to complain about except my poor shooting. Zero excuses. Thanks Mark G. & crew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cornerman
08-01-2017, 04:40 PM
A couple matches I saw(very briefly, believe me) had less than 60 viewers. Really? Why even set-up the equipment. (Sic)

The amateur streams were setup for amateurs so their friends and families could see them. It was a success. Friends and families loved seeing their loved ones playing on a national stage. Please don't take that away from them.


Freddie

8BallWonderland
08-01-2017, 05:18 PM
The amateur streams were setup for amateurs so their friends and families could see them. It was a success. Friends and families loved seeing their loved ones playing on a national stage. Please don't take that away from them.


Freddie

Some friends and family really didn't appreciate the horrible commentating while their loved ones were playing. In my opinion Commentators that sit there and bash the 420 Fargo player playing in a team match, are not very nice and should not be in the booth.
They need to realize these are not pros playing, to give good informative opinions on the wrong patterns etc is ok.
But bashing the player and making derogatory comments is just not nice.

Cornerman
08-01-2017, 07:54 PM
Some friends and family really didn't appreciate the horrible commentating while their loved ones were playing. In my opinion Commentators that sit there and bash the 420 Fargo player playing in a team match, are not very nice and should not be in the booth.
They need to realize these are not pros playing, to give good informative opinions on the wrong patterns etc is ok.
But bashing the player and making derogatory comments is just not nice.

I totally agree. I think our commentary was a huge success based on that. I can't speak for the other streamers, but the CSI commentating crew had specific goals for commentary: to highlight the amateur player.

To be clear and honest, our first team match of the event wasn't great. We weren't fully prepared. But we had entirely too many people coming back to us to give us praise after listening that I feel good that we accomplished our goal.

Freddie

BRussell
08-01-2017, 08:18 PM
I totally agree. I think our commentary was a huge success based on that. I can't speak for the other streamers, but the CSI commentating crew had specific goals for commentary: to highlight the amateur player.

To be clear and honest, our first team match of the event wasn't great. We weren't fully prepared. But we had entirely too many people coming back to us to give us praise after listening that I feel good that we accomplished our goal.

Freddie

You and George commentated on a friend's match, and you did a great job. The video is a big hit among our friends who've seen pro matches with commentary.

JumpinJoe
08-01-2017, 08:26 PM
-My opinion is this event has went down every since Ozzy arrived.

-I think the RIO does not help either (I dont mind it), it's higher priced, and all food is higher then when it was at The Riv. This definitely has a big effect as well.

-Another factor could be summer, some have to miss as they have kids out of school and take them on vacations to beaches, theme parks, etc. Vegas is really not a kids spot although there are things for them.

Curious as to what others think is the slow downfall.

** This (BCA) was always my favorite tourney also. I cant stand the APA. I sure hope they get it corrected in the next few years before it has a huge dropoff.

jojopiff
08-01-2017, 08:54 PM
-My opinion is this event has went down every since Ozzy arrived.

-I think the RIO does not help either (I dont mind it), it's higher priced, and all food is higher then when it was at The Riv. This definitely has a big effect as well.

-Another factor could be summer, some have to miss as they have kids out of school and take them on vacations to beaches, theme parks, etc. Vegas is really not a kids spot although there are things for them.

Curious as to what others think is the slow downfall.

I'm indifferent to the Rio. I think the food options are awful as is the service. However, the Riv was much smaller & couldn't accommodate near as many people. Ive never stayed at the Rio so no opinion on rooms/prices.

I've never played VNEA at Ballys so can't say how that is but I love the location.

Westgate is simply different, not better or worse IMO. I think it actually has worse food options. Also not on the strip but there's a tram that runs to the strip.

I think it's a combination of the event being in the summer & overall rising Vegas costs (obviously not a CSI issue). Personally, I have no interest in spending a 10 day vacation in 110 degree weather to play multiple events. Especially coming from a cold climate where summer is only 4 months long so spending 2 weekends away isn't ideal.

This said, I played teams this year & had a blast. I intend to go for singles next year.

cardiac kid
08-02-2017, 05:26 AM
I'm indifferent to the Rio. I think the food options are awful as is the service. However, the Riv was much smaller & couldn't accommodate near as many people. Ive never stayed at the Rio so no opinion on rooms/prices.

I've never played VNEA at Ballys so can't say how that is but I love the location.

Westgate is simply different, not better or worse IMO. I think it actually has worse food options. Also not on the strip but there's a tram that runs to the strip.

I think it's a combination of the event being in the summer & overall rising Vegas costs (obviously not a CSI issue). Personally, I have no interest in spending a 10 day vacation in 110 degree weather to play multiple events. Especially coming from a cold climate where summer is only 4 months long so spending 2 weekends away isn't ideal.

This said, I played teams this year & had a blast. I intend to go for singles next year.

Jojo,

Played VNEA at Bally's the last two years. Actually, Bally's has better food options as Paris is right next door. The food court is pretty good as well. This year, Bally's introduced the much hated $10 per day parking for non-Nevada residents. As I still carry a New York drivers license and drive rental cars when in Vegas, it was an additional $90 for me. Can assure you Bally's or any "The Strip" hotel is not the answer. All the properties charge for parking. Perhaps it can be negotiated away?

Also played the ACS event at Tropicana. Even less choices for food. Only saving grace is the lack of the door nazis. Trop did not charge for parking this year. Understand they will institute the parking charge for next year. Specially as preparations go forward for the Las Vegas Raiders stadium. It is about a mile away across I-15.

Perhaps someone who has played in either the APA or US Bar Box can chime in on the Westgate and its facilities. FYI, the "Strip" in Vegas is generally considered to begin at the junction of Sahara and LV Blvd and go south. Anything north is "Downtown". Most people consider the Stratosphere at part of the "Strip" as well.

Lyn

jay helfert
08-02-2017, 02:42 PM
There is one reason that there are still so many amateur tournaments in Las Vegas. You can get the ballroom space for free based on room occupancy. If you bring enough people there you won't be paying for that huge ballroom. That alone makes it a good deal. On top of that they will give the promoter a kickback on the room rentals as well, usually something like 10-20% of the rental rate. These are two pretty big perks and when you throw in the food and drinks concession on site, that makes it even juicier. And there's more, if you are a licensed Junket Operator (I was) you can even get a small percentage of the players "drop" in the casino. Of course to do that they must be able to identify the player with a players card that matches their name on the room list. Starting to sound better all the time isn't it. :cool:

onepocketron
08-02-2017, 07:32 PM
The total numbers of this years event were very close to last years numbers. Every year we hear how everything is shrinking - but it is not true. Exhibitors come and go. We had several new one and a few old ones were not here. A couple have retired and other had 'situations' - to imply they 'skipped' this event is untrue and misleading.

I talk to the exhibitors every year. It was about the same as last year. I realize I have access to the real numbers. Hopefully this will help correct the errors in your info.

Mark Griffin

PS On a side note. The Rio is an excellent venue for our event. The room prices are better than anywhere else, there is no resort fee etc. All casinos have high prices, but the Rio is better than others. And there is no resort fee.

I personally know several vendors that attend every year, and the biggest thing I heard from most of them was having the pro events moved away from the Rio. If the pros played at the Rio, there would have been a lot more folks at the Rio that could have made purchases. I have to admit that I see their point, and understand why they were unhappy. There is enough room at the Rio to have them set up as they were at the old Riv so it must be "economics" to have them moved away is what I would assume.

Back in the day when the pros played at the Rio and there was a charge to watch them play, I had no issue spending $35 to get a VIP pass for the day, every day. Having them play on bar boxes the last few years held almost zero interest for many folks that attended including myself. As far as getting a shuttle to go to a pool hall, and then pay to see them play, I have absolutely zero interest and do not plan on attending if it's handled in the same manner in the years to come.

I am sure that this makes little difference, as I am only one person, and I heard the crowd was pretty good at the pool hall so I look for more of the same in the years to come.

There were fewer teams and fewer singles that last year, you can see that on the boards, so the attendance was down from last year. Friday there were MANY open tables on which to practice, and that was not the case last year.

mikepage
08-02-2017, 08:12 PM
[...]
There were fewer teams and fewer singles that last year, you can see that on the boards, so the attendance was down from last year. [..]

Actually, though there were fewer teams, numbers were up this year compared to last for 9-Ball mixed singles and 8-ball mixed singles (the one that gets separated into bronze, silver, gold, and platinum).

NINEBALLART
08-02-2017, 09:39 PM
The total numbers of this years event were very close to last years numbers. Every year we hear how everything is shrinking - but it is not true. Exhibitors come and go. We had several new one and a few old ones were not here. A couple have retired and other had 'situations' - to imply they 'skipped' this event is untrue and misleading.

I talk to the exhibitors every year. It was about the same as last year. I realize I have access to the real numbers. Hopefully this will help correct the errors in your info.

Mark Griffin

PS On a side note. The Rio is an excellent venue for our event. The room prices are better than anywhere else, there is no resort fee etc. All casinos have high prices, but the Rio is better than others. And there is no resort fee.



What about the Scotch doubles being behind 1 1/2 hours and more with the new talking all the time rule? You didn't answer to that...Lots and lots of complaints about that...Are you going to keep it that way or go back to how it was before?

Baby Huey
08-03-2017, 09:50 AM
I haven't played BCA for awhile and when I did the Rio Hotel was a good venue. I think the problem might be there are less good events for "skilled players." The lack of players entering those higher skilled events brings the prize pool down in my opinion. When you have only a hundred or so players in an event, first thru fourth places get most of the money and the drop off is considerable from there on. For an average duffer like myself to enter means I have to crack the top four, highly unlikely. So to attract players in the mid-range skill sets, player fields have to be large in order to win a little something. I don't presume to have the answer nor am I complaining but rather stating the harsh reality of tournament pool as it exists now.

bwally
08-03-2017, 10:03 PM
The total numbers of this years event were very close to last years numbers. Every year we hear how everything is shrinking - but it is not true. Exhibitors come and go. We had several new one and a few old ones were not here. A couple have retired and other had 'situations' - to imply they 'skipped' this event is untrue and misleading.

I talk to the exhibitors every year. It was about the same as last year. I realize I have access to the real numbers. Hopefully this will help correct the errors in your info.

Mark Griffin

PS On a side note. The Rio is an excellent venue for our event. The room prices are better than anywhere else, there is no resort fee etc. All casinos have high prices, but the Rio is better than others. And there is no resort fee.Honestly Mark the best part of the RIO for me is the the buffet at the Gold Coast. I won't be back to BCA's until it moves.

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