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View Full Version : Point of a good cue?


SlashingAxe
07-28-2017, 02:21 PM
One of my lower teammates is always talking of how better equipment is and his point is "if it doesn't matter so much as stroke and stuff why don't pros use a cheap cue". Granted a few variables like low deflection shafts and such would make a difference but I always feel a good tip is all that's needed. What other arguments can be used against him as to why pros use expensive cues? He has the hundreds dollar giseuppe cases and the hundreds dollar plus cue and I play with a free cue that's maybe worth $40 and still run the table but this doesn't sway my advice to worry more on his stroke than the equipment

GoldCrown
07-28-2017, 02:24 PM
He has the hundreds dollar giseuppe cases and the hundreds dollar plus cue and I play with a free cue that's maybe worth $40 and still run the table

There it is. Point proved. You would make out better debating a Stop Sign or Fire Plug than reasoning with your teammate.

Brags
07-28-2017, 02:25 PM
One of my lower teammates is always talking of how better equipment is and his point is "if it doesn't matter so much as stroke and stuff why don't pros use a cheap cue". Granted a few variables like low deflection shafts and such would make a difference but I always feel a good tip is all that's needed. What other arguments can be used against him as to why pros use expensive cues? He has the hundreds dollar giseuppe cases and the hundreds dollar plus cue and I play with a free cue that's maybe worth $40 and still run the table but this doesn't sway my advice to worry more on his stroke than the equipment

Didn't Efren win the U.S. open with a $15 cue?

SARDiver
07-28-2017, 02:25 PM
I notice that in Tor Lowry's vids, he seems to use a sneaky pete of some type, and seems to do quite well.

I would guess the pros use what their sponsors tend to want them to use, to try to drum up sales.

I have a feeling SVB could beat most of us with a rake handle, so long as the tip was right.

SlashingAxe
07-28-2017, 02:45 PM
I would guess the pros use what their sponsors tend to want them to use, to try to drum up sales.


This was always my initial thought but wasn't sure so I didn't mention it to him. Either that or they just really appreciate the woodwork and can afford the expensive cues

mchnhed
07-28-2017, 03:27 PM
Point of a good cue?

Longevity.
Consistency.
Feel.
Feedback.
Looks.

garczar
07-28-2017, 03:37 PM
Why do people buy nice cars? A beater will get you there. Why nice clothes? WallyWorld crap will cover you up. This gets asked here a LOT. Simple: some people like and can afford nicer stuff. Will a $1000 cue make me better than my $200 cue? No. Would i enjoy owning and using such a cue? HELL YES.

Johnny Rosato
07-28-2017, 03:52 PM
One of my lower teammates is always talking of how better equipment is and his point is "if it doesn't matter so much as stroke and stuff why don't pros use a cheap cue". Granted a few variables like low deflection shafts and such would make a difference but I always feel a good tip is all that's needed. What other arguments can be used against him as to why pros use expensive cues? He has the hundreds dollar giseuppe cases and the hundreds dollar plus cue and I play with a free cue that's maybe worth $40 and still run the table but this doesn't sway my advice to worry more on his stroke than the equipment
Point of a good cue?

Could you imagine the wanted section if not;
Hello all, I'm looking for a piece of chit to choot pool with.
4 or 5 foot ought to do it.
Not too many knots and a tip would help.
Show me what you got, $8.75 in PP ready

Type79
07-28-2017, 04:00 PM
Efren shot with a $15 cue
It's the arrow not the Indian
Over $500 all cues are the same
SVB uses a CueTec
A pro can beat anybody using a house cue

Okay, debate over. Next topic?

PS I can't imagine spending more than $100 on a cue stick.

SARDiver
07-28-2017, 04:02 PM
I have always looked at the top end of good playing cues. Inlays, veneers, etc. mean very little to me. My playing cue is a Mezz EC-7 with cocobolo wood (my one concession to looks). No points. No veneers. No inlays. Nothing fancy. Just a really good playing cue that looks nice. I think 99% of the pros out there would be satisfied with such a cue, but if they have access to fancier cues, and like the looks, why not?

garczar
07-28-2017, 04:17 PM
I have always looked at the top end of good playing cues. Inlays, veneers, etc. mean very little to me. My playing cue is a Mezz EC-7 with cocobolo wood (my one concession to looks). No points. No veneers. No inlays. Nothing fancy. Just a really good playing cue that looks nice. I think 99% of the pros out there would be satisfied with such a cue, but if they have access to fancier cues, and like the looks, why not?Those EC-7's are nice and a hell of a lot of cue for the $$.

slide13
07-28-2017, 04:20 PM
Give me $200 and I'll find a cue to play with that won't hold me back a bit. So what? I like nice cues, I can afford one, I spend a lot of time playing pool and having a nice cue helps to increase my enjoyment. It doesn't make me play any better but it's still the best $1100 I've ever spent because it makes me really damn happy when I play with it.

Straightpool_99
07-28-2017, 04:30 PM
There are differences between cues..Anyone who says otherwise is a moron who should be ignored! It doesn't mean that more expensive is better, but some cues will be better suited to you than others. I like a very firm hit and I like the energy to be transmitted to my hand for a nice feedback. At the same time I don't like a lot of deflection. My Mezz serves me well, but could be considered an expensive cue by many players. I tried for 6 months to get used to a cue with high deflection, but I just couldn't do it. I played at maybe 80% of my skill level at best with that cue. That was not just in my mind, the statistics showed it!

I never understood the "reverse snobbery" in pool. "I ran 2 racks with a housecue that was bent and had a bad tip". Well, that's good for you, meanwhile you lost the match to someone with a proper cue. Housecues can be ok, but at least make sure the tip is good, if not fix it up with a tip tool. I don't care that you can play decently with a shabby cue. I care what the best you can do is. There is no heroism in playing with a cue that is bad, when you can easily afford a better one. To me it's just stupid, and shows that you are not serious about the game. It's ok not be serious about pool, but then you shouldn't be bragging about your exploits either!

Also some people think they can "police" who buys what cue! If some bad player buys a nice cue, that's no concern of yours! Also at what point do you "earn" the right to own a nice cue? Do you have to run 5 racks of 10 ball? 100 balls in 14.1? 200? This world would be better if certain people worried more about playing the game than hating on people with nice cues. Since Efren played so well with a 15 dollar cue, that means that nobody can ever own a more expensice cue right, that's the logical extension of the argument of these people? Also what you are in fact saying is that there are differences between cues, that better players should have better cues, so in fact you are making the argument for the other side. What if the same sort of argument was used on the amount of training? "Well I lost only 8-10 against you, and I've been playing for only 2 years, while you have played since childhood, therefore it's a victory for me!" The whole thing is just stupid and makes no sense at all.

ru4au2
07-28-2017, 04:44 PM
Efren shot with a $15 cue
It's the arrow not the Indian
Over $500 all cues are the same
SVB uses a CueTec
A pro can beat anybody using a house cue

Okay, debate over. Next topic?

PS I can't imagine spending more than $100 on a cue stick.

I think you ment " It's the indian not the arrow"

mchnhed
07-28-2017, 05:03 PM
I think you meant "It's the indian not the arrow."

"It's the arrow not the Indian."
It's the bow!

PS I can't imagine spending more than $100 on a cue stick.
Could you please give us three models of cues that are a good player and are under $100?
I like my Players Cues, but they are more than $100.

Bavafongoul
07-28-2017, 05:23 PM
Why stop with pool cues?

Why not just buy a Timex watch instead of a Rolex or Omega or Breitling watch?
Why not buy golf clubs at a garage sale instead of custom fit Callaway or Ping clubs?
Why bother putting Michelin Pilot Sport Tires on your car when you could buy a cheap knockoff?

Can't the same question be applied to clothes, liquor, cars, guns, shoes, and pretty much anything
else that may come to mind? People get what they like and can afford. Better things cost more than
lesser things. Do better things of and by itself make some one better?

Heck no! Do you know how many high handicap golfers are playing with $2k sets of golf clubs and
these folks struggle to consistently break a 100. Jeez, you'd think they'd at least play low 90's or
something but nope. Same folks go out there week in and week out and shoot 1110, 108, 103, 98,
107, 104 and know what? They are enjoying themselves all the more because the one thing they
sure know. Thier equipment isn't the problem but they really enjoy playing with the very best clubs
hoping it will bolster their game and it doesn't matter whether it does or doesn't.

Why? Because they can afford to play golf and treat themeselves to the best equipment and how often
do they do it? Every 4-5 years maybe change clubs or add a driver along the way. But they genuinely
enjoy what they do & the cost of doing it doesn't matter a bit except to those that can't afford to do it.

Play the cue you like the best and that you can afford.....and don't fault others that spend a lot more.
Just stick to this and along the way, your taste in cues will likely change and so will your cue budget.


Matt B.

jasonlaus
07-28-2017, 06:46 PM
Which pros use expensive cues? Cuetec, meucci are not expensive

Type79
07-28-2017, 06:48 PM
I think you ment " It's the indian not the arrow"

I was caught-up in the excitement of the thread.

Black-Balled
07-28-2017, 06:57 PM
Didn't Efren win the U.S. open with a $15 cue?

Fish gets bigger every time it gets spoken about...

Black-Balled
07-28-2017, 07:04 PM
Efren shot with a $15 cue
It's the arrow not the Indian
Over $500 all cues are the same
SVB uses a CueTec
A pro can beat anybody using a house cue

Okay, debate over. Next topic?

PS I can't imagine spending more than $100 on a cue stick.

I bet you wouldn't find too many pros who would be willing to play a big match with a house cue though.

mchnhed
07-28-2017, 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type79
PS I can't imagine spending more than $100 on a cue stick.

mchnhed responded:
Could you please give us three models of cues that are a good playing cue and are under $100?
I like my Players Cues, but they are more than $100.

No Response from Type79

SlashingAxe
07-28-2017, 11:13 PM
I bet you wouldn't find too many pros who would be willing to play a big match with a house cue though.

I think everyone's gotten sidetracked by my original comment. I never asked why get one but if there's more so a significant difference in the more expensive ones besides low deflection shafts as he usually rags on people with cheaper cues or gets mad if I play em with a house cue thinking I'm going easy on him

Black-Balled
07-29-2017, 05:30 AM
I think everyone's gotten sidetracked by my original comment. I never asked why get one but if there's more so a significant difference in the more expensive ones besides low deflection shafts as he usually rags on people with cheaper cues or gets mad if I play em with a house cue thinking I'm going easy on him

Yeah, welcome to the azb. Nobody really cares what anybody else says...we are just pushing buttons and blabbering. It is a giant rorschach exercise.

Luckily, there are so many of us tha one will usually have a pertinent reply...:grin:

garczar
07-29-2017, 05:35 AM
Which pros use expensive cues? Cuetec, meucci are not expensiveEver seen Shannon Daulton's Gilbert? The Rocket's Tasc? Ko(both) use SW's. A LOT of players use high-end cues. Granted, they're usually(mostly) freebies. I don't know of any top player who buy their own cues.

Type79
07-29-2017, 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type79
PS I can't imagine spending more than $100 on a cue stick.

mchnhed responded:
Could you please give us three models of cues that are a good playing cue and are under $100?
I like my Players Cues, but they are more than $100.

No Response from Type79

Actually, I could, but my comment was made in jest. It was a joke, a tiny bit of levity, dry humor.

My friends who read it smirked because of it's irony.

Straightpool_99
07-29-2017, 06:36 AM
I think everyone's gotten sidetracked by my original comment. I never asked why get one but if there's more so a significant difference in the more expensive ones besides low deflection shafts as he usually rags on people with cheaper cues or gets mad if I play em with a house cue thinking I'm going easy on him

Expensive cues have better wood. Cheap cues have "soft" wood and not a lot of care go into their production. Poor tolerances, poor quality control, bad materials etc..Sometimes you get a "golden" example which plays brilliantly, but at other times you get a very poor feel.

Expensive cues have care put into their production, especially custom cues which are hand made and tuned. They can't put "matchstick grade" wood into their cues, because they'd lose their business. Typically the balance is better and more natural etc.. This goes for middle- to high-end production cues as well as customs.The biggest, most noticable difference is the feel, though.

Truth be told, if you pay 150-200 dollars you'll get a very playable cue. Very few people would feel that cue held them back significantly. Cuetec r-360. like Shane uses, is one of those cues. I've played extensively with that shaft and it's quite nice, but I don't like the feel. I want a "crisp" feedback to my hand, because that way I know my stroke is good. If I let up on a shot with a bad cue, sometimes I won't immidiately notice, because the feedback is muffled. Then I risk having my fundamentals slide downward without noticing. Also it feels nice when you get a nice "ping" instead of a dull "thud" when you hit the ball.

As for your house cue comment...What would you think if your mate challenges you to a swimming contest, to show up with small lead weights attached to his body, not enough to drown him, but enough to slow him down? Would you feel slightly insulted by this? What if you wanted to play you tennis, but he chose to use a 2*4 piece of pine instead of a racket? Those are extreme examples of the emotion you friend is having. It may not be warranted, but one certainly can understand it.

Type79
07-29-2017, 06:47 AM
^^^^^^ Excellent post.

Texas Carom Club
07-29-2017, 06:50 AM
One of my lower teammates is always talking of how better equipment is and his point is "if it doesn't matter so much as stroke and stuff why don't pros use a cheap cue". Granted a few variables like low deflection shafts and such would make a difference but I always feel a good tip is all that's needed. What other arguments can be used against him as to why pros use expensive cues? He has the hundreds dollar giseuppe cases and the hundreds dollar plus cue and I play with a free cue that's maybe worth $40 and still run the table but this doesn't sway my advice to worry more on his stroke than the equipment

Everybody is a scientist, tell him to shut up and shoot

Chopdoc
07-29-2017, 07:13 AM
Actually, I could, but my comment was made in jest. It was a joke, a tiny bit of levity, dry humor.

My friends who read it smirked because of it's irony.

Irony, yeah.

Smirk?

I spit my coffee all over my pc screen.....



.

Linwood
07-29-2017, 07:47 AM
Heck no! Do you know how many high handicap golfers are playing with $2k sets of golf clubs and these folks struggle to consistently break a 100. .....

Why? Because they can afford to play golf and treat themeselves to the best equipment and how often do they do it? Every 4-5 years maybe change clubs or add a driver along the way. But they genuinely enjoy what they do & the cost of doing it doesn't matter a bit except to those that can't afford to do it.


I don't play golf, but I've heard another reason there, and also from my main hobby (photography), and that's the "no excuses" reason.

If one buys the best equipment, in most cases one then has only themselves to blame for bad perforamance, and they never wonder "could I have gotten that shot with better camera" or "could I have broken 80 with better clubs".

Right or wrong, it's not a bad motivation.

Ghosst
07-29-2017, 08:35 AM
What other arguments can be used against him as to why pros use expensive cues?

House cues are nasty. The last guy who picked it up might not have washed his hands after going to the bathroom. Do you want to touch that?

That's where it begins. You start out in league, buy a production cue that's a few hundred. Then you get better, buy a better cue. Maybe $400-$600. A little while later you're at the top of your division and you grow into the 4-digit cues. They play a lot different. They don't make balls any better but the hit and feel is what you are paying for.

If you advance more and become one of the 40-or-so top level players you end up traveling so much that your $1000s of dollars of hit and feel get thrown around by baggage handlers and road partners every week. Soon it's ruined. Then along comes a production cue (maybe with a sponsorship) and guess what, you're still one of the best. Then it doesn't matter anymore.

Now, as for your friend, find someone who will let him stroke a $1000+ custom cue. If he doesn't feel a difference right away, he doesn't have the touch to play at a high level.

Kid Dynomite
07-29-2017, 08:49 AM
This topic comes up all the time. Just consider Annie Oakley??? She can shoot great with her gun. But, what about with a gun that has the sights mounted incorrectly???

That is why gun smiths get top dollar to fine tune the instrument.

Shaft work is where the majority of the fine tuning takes place. Taper, tip, ferrulle, deflection.

The butt gets fine tuned with balance point, wrap texture!

I omitted vibration resonances and joint type as those are less important in my opinion. Notice no mention of exotic materials or inlays!!!

It would help if the cue was straight and not warped! ORCOLLO in his sports illustrated article mentioned that his expensive southwest cue actually warped in the Philippines climate. He was not sure if it came from the shop that way or if the climate was the cause.

Anyway, good equipment and maintenance is worth its weight in gold. Best tip for any pool player is to find a GREAT cue repair man more so than anything else! Together you will experiment with different tips, ferrulles, tapers, wraps, balance points and joints till you get the secret sauce for your game.

The above qualities can exist in a $15 cue or a $15,000 cue. So many people get a cue and keep it stock for resale purposes and never truly give the cue a chance.

Most every cue maker leaves the taper fat! They assume that you will IMMEDIATELY get the cue to the repair man of your choice and have the PRO taper and other adjustments made. These adjustments are not possible if too thin. So, sense they can't put wood back and can only take it off they often leave it thick and let you slowly have it worked down to the desired size.

This has been a longer post than planned. Hope this helps.

Kd

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