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View Full Version : Kling's in its heyday..................


garczar
07-30-2017, 08:01 AM
Someone was asking about Kling tables the other day and i found this picture. Now THIS is a poolroom: http://www.chicagobilliardmuseum.org/images/50_Klings.jpg Johnny Kling was a catcher for the Cubs and in the off-season he was a champion player and room owner. If you want to play on one go to RaytownRec in KC. They've got a 5x10 pool version that came out of Kling-Allens.

AuntyDan
07-30-2017, 10:09 AM
Nice picture. Any know what the wicker basket under the ball return tray is for? (There's one pictured at every table.)

jay helfert
07-30-2017, 10:27 AM
A really well appointed poolroom like this would still do well today. People will always enjoy socializing and playing pool together.

Mr. Bond
07-30-2017, 10:28 AM
Klings famous poolroom was located on the 2nd and 3rd floor of the Dixon Hotel in Kansas City

465903

Mr. Bond
07-30-2017, 10:29 AM
Nice picture. Any know what the wicker basket under the ball return tray is for? (There's one pictured at every table.)

It was simply a ball basket for convenience. For toting balls to and from the tables and even making the racking go quicker.

Mr. Bond
07-30-2017, 10:33 AM
Before the Cubs won this last World Series, they had not won it since 1908.

Some have argued that they might have won it again in 1909 (and maybe more) had it not been for Kling "leaving baseball" to play pool..

from wiki:

Although he once again told Cubs' management he was considering giving up baseball for pool before the 1907 season,[13] he once again returned to play for the Cubs, who won the World Series in both 1907 & 1908. Then, in early 1909, after several solid years with Chicago, he engaged in another dispute with the management over salary and this time decided to spend some time away from the club.[14] During that time he continued to compete in pool, winning the world billiards championship, and played semi-pro baseball with a Kansas City team. He sat out the entire 1909 season, and in early October competed against Charles "Cowboy" Weston and won the world's championship of pool.[15] When he decided to come back to baseball in early 1910 and asked to be reinstated, a debate ensued as to whether he should be permitted to return since he had not honored his contract during the 1909 season. National League President Thomas J. Lynch wanted him fined or possibly traded; in the end, he was fined $700 and allowed to return.[16] His love for both pool and billiards led him to not only play competitively, but to organize a league which was called the National Amateur Three-Cushion League. It had teams from eight cities, Kansas City, Chicago and St. Louis among them.[17] He told reporters that when his baseball career was over, he would devote himself to pool and billiards full-time.[18] And despite his often-divided loyalties, baseball writers agreed that Kling was among the best players of his era; in fact, his obituary described him as "one of the greatest catchers the Chicago Cubs ever had".

Low500
07-30-2017, 10:36 AM
A really well appointed poolroom like this would still do well today. People will always enjoy socializing and playing pool together.
No it wouldn't.
Those kind of days are gone forever.
Lost in the past.

jay helfert
07-30-2017, 10:50 AM
No it wouldn't.
Those kind of days are gone forever.
Lost in the past.

You gotta know what you're doing baby! Take a look at The Ice House that Scott Frost just opened, very large and very clean. Full bar and good food is a must. I would go even further, create a nice eating area by each table and their own rack of cues. Good table, good spacing and good food goes a long way to making people happy. A good sound system is also a must.

My vision would include soft lighting and maybe some soft jazz music in the background. A place for people to chill out and relax and have fun. A club for well mannered ADULTS!

deanoc
07-30-2017, 11:36 AM
if anyone has posters or pictures of the pool room shown on
this thread
please contact me
dean

Low500
07-30-2017, 11:47 AM
You gotta know what you're doing baby! Take a look at The Ice House that Scott Frost just opened, very large and very clean. Full bar and good food is a must. I would go even further, create a nice eating area by each table and their own rack of cues. Good table, good spacing and good food goes a long way to making people happy. A good sound system is also a must.
My vision would include soft lighting and maybe some soft jazz music in the background. A place for people to chill out and relax and have fun. A club for well mannered ADULTS!
That is not what this discussion is concerned with, as you very well know.
When you find a hotel in a major city that will allow you to put a pool room on an entire floor (like in this picture from the dark ages)........then you can write about "gotta know what you're doing, baby".
Since you brought it up, as of today, the Ice House is still an unknown entity when it comes to the P&L.
.

garczar
07-30-2017, 12:28 PM
That is not what this discussion is concerned with, as you very well know.
When you find a hotel in a major city that will allow you to put a pool room on an entire floor (like in this picture from the dark ages)........then you can write about "gotta know what you're doing, baby".
Since you brought it up, as of today, the Ice House is still an unknown entity when it comes to the P&L.
.Whats the "P&L"? Profit-n-Loss? BTW, Jay never said anything about the room he described as being in a hotel. He said a well appointed room "like" this would do well. My intent as the OP was merely to show what Kling's looked like back in the day. Did you have a room go bust on you? Seem awfully negative on this topic. If i'm misreading you i apologize.

De420MadHatter
07-30-2017, 01:14 PM
Whats the "P&L"? BTW, Jay never said anything about the room he described as being in a hotel. He said a well appointed room "like" this would do well. My intent as the OP was merely to show what Kling's looked like back in the day. Did you have a room go bust on you? Seem awfully negative on this topic. If i'm misreading you i apologize.

I don't think Low, mentioned anything about, Jay saying anything about a hotel :grin:.
IMO he was just referencing how immensely popular, pool was then.
If someone pulled this off in say New York, at the Waldorph, next yr, it would make the ice house look like a redneck dive. It would be fair to say, it would be next to impossible to pull something like this off.
I mean the guy was quitting professional baseball to play pool :eek:

jay helfert
07-30-2017, 07:21 PM
That is not what this discussion is concerned with, as you very well know.
When you find a hotel in a major city that will allow you to put a pool room on an entire floor (like in this picture from the dark ages)........then you can write about "gotta know what you're doing, baby".
Since you brought it up, as of today, the Ice House is still an unknown entity when it comes to the P&L.
.

I never said it had to be in a hotel. It could be built in a warehouse in an industrial district and be successful if done right.

jay helfert
07-30-2017, 07:23 PM
I don't think Low, mentioned anything about, Jay saying anything about a hotel :grin:.
IMO he was just referencing how immensely popular, pool was then.
If someone pulled this off in say New York, at the Waldorph, next yr, it would make the ice house look like a redneck dive. It would be fair to say, it would be next to impossible to pull something like this off.
I mean the guy was quitting professional baseball to play pool :eek:

By the way, there are some beautiful large rooms in New York (Steinway, Amsterdam) that seem to be doing okay, in spite of extremely high rents. They must be doing something right.

mchnhed
07-30-2017, 07:33 PM
By the way, there are some beautiful large rooms in New York (Steinway) that seem to be doing okay, in spite of extremely high rents. They must be doing something right.
Yeah sure, if you don't mind paying $16-$20 an hour for one person.

skip100
07-30-2017, 07:35 PM
Yeah sure, if you don't mind paying $16-$20 an hour for one person.
I see, so what we need are beautiful rooms with brand new equipment, super cheap table time and in convenient locations. Oh yeah, and all-day happy hour and no greens fees for leagues. I'll take a massage while we're at it.

Clearly people value playing pool at whatever price Steinway charges because the room is doing well. Perhaps you don't and that's fine.

Paul Schofield
07-30-2017, 08:29 PM
My Kling at the house: There is some history here. Hoppe, Schaefer, Cochran, just to name a few, played many a tournament match on this majestic table.

mchnhed
07-30-2017, 08:58 PM
I see, so what we need are beautiful rooms with brand new equipment, super cheap table time and in convenient locations. Oh yeah, and all-day happy hour and no greens fees for leagues. I'll take a massage while we're at it.

Clearly people value playing pool at whatever price Steinway charges because the room is doing well. Perhaps you don't and that's fine.

Yeah sure, if you don't mind paying $16-$20 an hour for one person.
I'm not complaining about the price, just pointing it out to others that may not know.
Los Angeles Lease rates, liability insurance, California taxes plus paying $15/hour for workers is killing pool rooms left and right here.

skip100
07-30-2017, 09:25 PM
I'm not complaining about the price, just pointing it out to others that may not know.
Los Angeles Lease rates, liability insurance, California taxes plus paying $15/hour for workers is killing pool rooms left and right here.
Which is why pool is really killing it in the rest of the country... oh wait :rolleyes:

On one of the chats someone was indignantly posting about how much it costs to play at Family Billiards in SF. We should be happy that there are at least a few pool halls left that get people to pay actual money for table time.

skip100
07-30-2017, 09:28 PM
My Kling at the house: There is some history here. Hoppe, Schaefer, Cochran, just to name a few, played many a tournament match on this majestic table.
Wow. That is epic :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

AuntyDan
07-30-2017, 11:11 PM
It was simply a ball basket for convenience. For toting balls to and from the tables and even making the racking go quicker.

Thanks Mr. Bond, that makes sense, I'd never considered how people moved sets of balls around before the era of the plastic ball rack.

Two further questions -

1) How did the basket make racking go quicker?

2) Was the "Kling" model table named after Johnny Kling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Kling) himself? (Seems likely from the article but it could just be coincidence)

garczar
07-31-2017, 04:15 AM
I see, so what we need are beautiful rooms with brand new equipment, super cheap table time and in convenient locations. Oh yeah, and all-day happy hour and no greens fees for leagues. I'll take a massage while we're at it.

Clearly people value playing pool at whatever price Steinway charges because the room is doing well. Perhaps you don't and that's fine.Exactly. One of the rooms in Tulsa has GC4's w/Simonis at THREE dollars/hr from 10am-4pm. Even at that rate some of the oldtimers squeal. I tried to tell one of these whining fossils that the local rate in 1980 was about $2.25/hr. People will pay 35-60bux for 4hrs of golf but the thought of paying 25bux for 4hrs. of pool gives them the hives. Crazy.

garczar
07-31-2017, 04:21 AM
Thanks Mr. Bond, that makes sense, I'd never considered how people moved sets of balls around before the era of the plastic ball rack.

Two further questions -

1) How did the basket make racking go quicker?

2) Was the "Kling" model table named after Johnny Kling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Kling) himself? (Seems likely from the article but it could just be coincidence)From what i've gathered Brunswick named it the Kling after the order of FIFTY tables. More Kling table-porn: http://www.billiardrestoration.com/antique-pool-tables/kling.htm If you're ever in ClayCenter,Kan you need to go see this place.

Low500
07-31-2017, 05:22 AM
I never said it had to be in a hotel. It could be built in a warehouse in an industrial district and be successful if done right.
No it wouldn't.
And yes, that is exactly what you were referring to...the man's picture of the hotel.
Find a hotel that will allow a pool room to occupy an entire floor...find someone stupid enough to finance it. :rotflmao1:
Show the world how its done.
Lost in the past....those days are gone forever.
:thumbup:

garczar
07-31-2017, 06:06 AM
No it wouldn't.
And yes, that is exactly what you were referring to...the man's picture of the hotel.
Find a hotel that will allow a pool room to occupy an entire floor...find someone stupid enough to finance it. :rotflmao1:
Show the world how its done.
Lost in the past....those days are gone forever.
:thumbup:Dude, what's your problem? To quote: " a really well appointed room like this would still do well today". He's referring to the poolroom in the picture. He never said that the room had to be in a hotel. What's makin you so ticked here? Ok, we got it. You don't think a hotel poolroom would fly today. Me and probably everyone on this forum agree with you. Feel better now? JFC.

ceebee
07-31-2017, 02:16 PM
We had a Kling Snooker Table at Magoos, until a couple weeks ago. It was beautiful, like the one shown in this thread. The owner wanted it back,

My Partner got himself a Kling Snooker Table & I'm gonna go to Kansas, to play on it for a weekend.He also has a Brunswick Arcade 6 Leg Billiard Table, a 9 foot Diamond Table & a 7 foot Diamond Table, all in the same room. He has his own little Pool Room..

skip100
07-31-2017, 02:27 PM
We had a Kling Snooker Table at Magoos, until a couple weeks ago. It was beautiful, like the one shown in this thread. The owner wanted it back,

My Partner got himself a Kling Snooker Table & I'm gonna go to Kansas, to play on it for a weekend.He also has a Brunswick Arcade 6 Leg Billiard Table, a 9 foot Diamond Table & a 7 foot Diamond Table, all in the same room. He has his own little Pool Room..
Post some pictures!

HurdyGurdy
07-31-2017, 02:37 PM
My vision would include soft lighting and maybe some soft jazz music in the background. A place for people to chill out and relax and have fun. A club for well mannered ADULTS!

Man, you just described Shakespeare's, a hall that used to be located in lodo Denver.
I miss that place.

markjames
07-31-2017, 02:57 PM
People, regulars don't pay anywhere near $16-20 an hour. Nor $3like in the afternoon in oklahoma!

Mr. Bond
07-31-2017, 03:52 PM
Thanks Mr. Bond, that makes sense, I'd never considered how people moved sets of balls around before the era of the plastic ball rack.

Two further questions -

1) How did the basket make racking go quicker?

2) Was the "Kling" model table named after Johnny Kling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Kling) himself? (Seems likely from the article but it could just be coincidence)


Some pool halls would simply remove the ball return box and place a basket in its place, and some tables were even made that way on purpose, so you could retrieve all the balls at one time. Was more laziness than anything else lol. Just a slightly quicker way to load a rack.

Yes they named it after Johnny Kling, the former Cubs catcher. The story is primarily undocumented but we do know that the Brunswicks et al were huge baseball fans and had many professional players as close friends.

Interestingly enough, it's the only Brunswick table known to have been named after a living person.

jay helfert
07-31-2017, 07:18 PM
Some pool halls would simply remove the ball return box and place a basket in its place, and some tables were even made that way on purpose, so you could retrieve all the balls at one time. Was more laziness than anything else lol. Just a slightly quicker way to load a rack.

Yes they named it after Johnny Kling, the former Cubs catcher. The story is primarily undocumented but we do know that the Brunswicks et al were huge baseball fans and had many professional players as close friends.

Interestingly enough, it's the only Brunswick table known to have been named after a living person.

The Brunswick factory at the time was located in Skokie, IL a suburb of Chicago. So it makes sense that a big Cub star who was also a great pool player would be someone they admired.

smashmouth
07-31-2017, 08:09 PM
Brunswick history is fascinating, what a company they were

Black-Balled
07-31-2017, 08:20 PM
I don't think Low, mentioned anything about, Jay saying anything about a hotel :grin:.
IMO he was just referencing how immensely popular, pool was then.
If someone pulled this off in say New York, at the Waldorph, next yr, it would make the ice house look like a redneck dive. It would be fair to say, it would be next to impossible to pull something like this off.
I mean the guy was quitting professional baseball to play pool :eek:

Your opinion of baseball is rooted in today...baseball was a very dispfferent profession back then.

You shoul watch league of their own. That's just how it was. No crying in baseball.:killingme:

mchnhed
07-31-2017, 08:29 PM
Brunswick history is fascinating, what a company they were.
Boats - Still going.
School Furniture - Stopped manufacturing.
Bowling - Sold off a couple of years ago.
Billiards - Now made overseas? The "Metro" is the New GC for the World?
Exercise Equipment - Still Going.

garczar
08-01-2017, 04:32 AM
Your opinion of baseball is rooted in today...baseball was a very dispfferent profession back then.

You shoul watch league of their own. That's just how it was. No crying in baseball.:killingme:Exactly. There was no free-agency. The players were basically serfs to their owners. Most players had off-season jobs of some sorts to hold them over. Superstars may have had endorsement deals but even those were a drop in the bucket compared to now.

Dan_B
08-01-2017, 05:55 AM
Yes sir, eliminate workers comp, state and fed unemployment fees, the Social Security match, bureaucrat pensions,
Obamacare, minimum wage and the state and local liability insurance requirement’s,
yes, a hotel centered around a well-appointed, event scheduled billiard room will be a player
making America great again.






</I’m a master dreamer>

:wink:

There is something about the making hay days and playing safety(ies) nets that don’t mix well for robust economics of the majority.

garczar
08-01-2017, 07:17 AM
The Brunswick factory at the time was located in Skokie, IL a suburb of Chicago. So it makes sense that a big Cub star who was also a great pool player would be someone they admired.Klings weren't made in Skokie. Don't think Brunswick moved there until 1970's and it was mostly offices i believe. Kling's were most likely built in one of the factories in Chicago proper. I'm sure Mr.Bond has that info. They had factories in Chicago, Mich, NY and overseas as well. What an empire they had at one time.

skip100
08-01-2017, 07:22 AM
How much would a nice Kling billiard/3 cushion table go for nowadays?

garczar
08-01-2017, 07:35 AM
How much would a nice Kling billiard/3 cushion table go for nowadays? I know where a snooker is now and owner is asking around 9grand which is cheap. One that's been restored can easily bring 15,000+. Call these guys for a more accurate #: http://www.billiardrestoration.com/

Mr. Bond
08-01-2017, 08:10 AM
Ironically someone emailed me the other day wanting to know how much a Kling would have cost back when they were being produced.

If you want to read an entertaining story about Brunswick getting involved in baseball, check this out:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=315270

I wonder if anyone still has their Simonis cloth uniform ?

skip100
08-01-2017, 09:16 AM
I know where a snooker is now and owner is asking around 9grand which is cheap. One that's been restored can easily bring 15,000+. Call these guys for a more accurate #: http://www.billiardrestoration.com/
Obviously not a small amount, but it's hard to say you don't get your money's worth.

mchnhed
08-17-2017, 08:19 AM
How much would a nice Kling billiard/3 cushion table go for nowadays?
Here's one in LA LA Land for $8,000.

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/atq/d/100-yr-old-brunswick-kling/6258642672.html

skip100
08-17-2017, 08:25 AM
Here's one in LA LA Land for $8,000.

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/atq/d/100-yr-old-brunswick-kling/6258642672.html
1 mile from some family. Early Christmas present? :eek: :thumbup:

garczar
08-17-2017, 08:36 AM
1 mile from some family. Early Christmas present? :eek: :thumbup:Looks to be in really nice shape. Good price. Go for it!!

alstl
08-17-2017, 11:52 AM
Someone was asking about Kling tables the other day and i found this picture. Now THIS is a poolroom: http://www.chicagobilliardmuseum.org/images/50_Klings.jpg Johnny Kling was a catcher for the Cubs and in the off-season he was a champion player and room owner. If you want to play on one go to RaytownRec in KC. They've got a 5x10 pool version that came out of Kling-Allens.

Nice picture. I noticed the spittoons which I'm old enough to remember. Cleaning the spittoons was an undesirable and unsafe job.

pt109
08-17-2017, 12:17 PM
Anybody owning or about to purchase a Kling....I found the appropriate balls....

467618