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BRussell
08-02-2017, 01:19 PM
I've had a long-time problem with my cue ball coming back towards me after I break. I figure I need to hit the cue ball higher, but now I'm doing something strange where I scoop upwards as I approach the cue ball. Any suggestions appreciated.

https://youtu.be/uoobKtXpclg

https://youtu.be/dhq-rCPMnmc

td873
08-02-2017, 01:22 PM
Do you have any videos with the full view? It's hard to tell what your mechanics are without them.

What is your break speed? You can get the break speed app to calculate it. It's not critical to break hard, but it helps to understand where you are in terms of ability to break.

Also, you should check out Dr. Dave's review of Shane's break on youtube. That is one way you can diagnose things yourself.

-td

pt109
08-02-2017, 01:31 PM
I've had a long-time problem with my cue ball coming back towards me after I break.

If you hit dead center cue ball and the one ball full...it's supposed to come back.

mchnhed
08-02-2017, 02:01 PM
I've also had a long-time problem with my cue ball coming back towards me after I break.
Any suggestions appreciated.

BRussell
08-02-2017, 02:13 PM
Do you have any videos with the full view? It's hard to tell what your mechanics are without them.

What is your break speed? You can get the break speed app to calculate it. It's not critical to break hard, but it helps to understand where you are in terms of ability to break.

Also, you should check out Dr. Dave's review of Shane's break on youtube. That is one way you can diagnose things yourself.

-td

Good idea, here's another one with the full view. I've used the break speed app before and my typical break is around 18 mph.

https://youtu.be/QVHSmy_hY8o

BRussell
08-02-2017, 02:15 PM
If you hit dead center cue ball and the one ball full...it's supposed to come back.

Right, but you want the cue ball to stay in the middle, which is why you want to hit the cue ball above center.

Black-Balled
08-02-2017, 02:30 PM
Right, but you want the cue ball to stay in the middle, which is why you want to hit the cue ball above center.

I think cb on top third of table is better, honestly.

I did not watch linked vids yet.

pt109
08-02-2017, 02:31 PM
Right, but you want the cue ball to stay in the middle, which is why you want to hit the cue ball above center.

Wrong.....any spin on the cue ball is wasting energy that should be forward motion.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0ahUKEwj4sb7EvLnVAhUc24MKHTYDDUwQuAIIQTAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3R oMvJ5QcCU&usg=AFQjCNG8xeCIvyPbloIxcia-bIxtM5QRmQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XASQ1EHW7jk

On the center ball hits, the weight of the pack pushes the cue ball back....
...don't fight it.

peter_gunn
08-02-2017, 02:46 PM
Majority of Shane's break have little top spin in it

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

BRussell
08-02-2017, 02:49 PM
Wrong.....any spin on the cue ball is wasting energy that should be forward motion.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0ahUKEwj4sb7EvLnVAhUc24MKHTYDDUwQuAIIQTAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3R oMvJ5QcCU&usg=AFQjCNG8xeCIvyPbloIxcia-bIxtM5QRmQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XASQ1EHW7jk

On the center ball hits, the weight of the pack pushes the cue ball back....
...don't fight it.
My typical outcome is for the cue ball to be near the head rail, as if I had tried to lag. I want it to stay more in the middle of the table.

medallio
08-02-2017, 03:20 PM
I think this is the one case where you need to elevate your cue. Still aim a hair above center though

BRussell
08-02-2017, 03:37 PM
I think this is the one case where you need to elevate your cue. Still aim a hair above center though



You mean elevate the back end of the cue?

pt109
08-02-2017, 03:57 PM
My typical outcome is for the cue ball to be near the head rail, as if I had tried to lag. I want it to stay more in the middle of the table.

A good rule to follow at pool is the same as playing golf...do not sacrifice accuracy.

If you're breaking 18 mph and your cue ball is too close to the end rail....
...you aren't hitting dead center cue ball.

Don't compensate for a problem....fix it.....accuracy starts at the cue ball.

M.G.
08-02-2017, 03:58 PM
- Shorten bridge
- Use less force/power/muscle - add speed (not power!) later on
- Stop scooping and just go straight through
- Try to hit slightly below center for a stop ball shot / very slight draw
- Start with CB on the line, 2 balls to the right of center and work your way from that
- Hit first ball of triangle at around 45 degrees. White shall go to long rail, bounce and be somewhere in the middle of the table.

Cheers!

strmanglr scott
08-02-2017, 04:46 PM
Imho..

Shorten bridge length to ob.

Raise your bridge/cue slightly to help eliminate the scoop.

Looks like your pretty down on the break, maybe a little more upright. Easier follow through.

td873
08-02-2017, 04:54 PM
Wrong.....any spin on the cue ball is wasting energy that should be forward motion.

I think this was the general understanding years ago when "power" on the break mattered more. Now, with the magic rack, it's more about repeatable consistent breaks. You will have extra "energy" to impart spin to the cue ball, i.e., putting a hair of top spin to get the ball to squat. It won't impact your results otherwise. As a practical point, you might lose .1 or .2 MPH with a small amount of spin on the cue ball. If you are trying to break at 20MPH, this is well within any margin of control. At 22 MPH, it's not even rounding error.

I would rather someone break at 20MPH every time regardless of spin imparted - then you can start to work on the control part

-td

pt109
08-02-2017, 04:56 PM
I think this was the general understanding years ago when "power" on the break mattered more. Now, with the magic rack, it's more about repeatable consistent breaks. You will have extra "energy" to impart spin to the cue ball, i.e., putting a hair of top spin to get the ball to squat. It won't impact your results otherwise. As a practical point, you might lose .1 or .2 MPH with a small amount of spin on the cue ball. If you are trying to break at 20MPH, this is well within any margin of control. At 22 MPH, it's not even rounding error.

I would rather someone break at 20MPH every time regardless of spin imparted - then you can start to work on the control part

-td

Cut breaking is a totally new area....I was only referring to the dead ball break.

Coop1701
08-02-2017, 04:58 PM
Due to your bridge length I think you are brushing over the top of the cueball. Good follow through. But way to high to make the cueball pop the one ball.

I still prefer the right side break. I start about inch to the left of the diamond.

When I break that way I always get the wing ball and typically the one goes in the side. If you wanna keep breaking from the center. It’s fine. I suggest working on controlling the ball by hitting a half tip below center. Once you get it to pop and stay. Then slowly add more power. Breaking is more about control than raw energy transfer.

Nick B
08-02-2017, 05:00 PM
At first blush you are setting up a little on the top side (high). Most of the killer breakers setup low and they swing up a bit as they go through their power stroke. This video from Doc Dave shows it well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAEnKCL3stU

td873
08-02-2017, 05:09 PM
Good idea, here's another one with the full view. I've used the break speed app before and my typical break is around 18 mph.

https://youtu.be/QVHSmy_hY8o
Here's a quick tip I give people. Choke up on the cue. Don't have your back hand parallel to the ground at the set position - no 90 degree position. It should be like 45 degrees or so (you'll have to experiment). One reason for this is that the cue has not reached maximum speed at the 90 degree spot. So just a little more room can add a few "free" MPH. I had a student go up 20% in just a few breaks by choking up on the cue.

[edit: at the set position, move your hand up to where your forearm and handle meet. Then break and see if it's faster]

-td

kid
08-02-2017, 05:11 PM
I'd work on the stance too. It looks like there is zero weight transfer to your front leg.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant AzBilliards Forums

td873
08-02-2017, 05:12 PM
Cut breaking is a totally new area....I was only referring to the dead ball break.
So was I. No cut break. Just head on. 8ball, 9ball, 10ball. All the same concept.

-td

Joe T
08-02-2017, 05:13 PM
I've had a long-time problem with my cue ball coming back towards me after I break. I figure I need to hit the cue ball higher, but now I'm doing something strange where I scoop upwards as I approach the cue ball. Any suggestions appreciated.

https://youtu.be/uoobKtXpclg

https://youtu.be/dhq-rCPMnmc

First off, you look pretty good. I can see how the cue moving up above center is going to drive you nuts and lose you some power. If you look at the angle of your cue at the back of the back stroke, it looks fantastic and that's very close to the angle you would actually like to hit the cue ball at, maybe a hair less. That's going to be difficult to do but totally worth you trying.

I would try 3 things;
#1 and hate saying it but it may help, get 2-3 inches closer ONLY because that'll make it easier to keep the cue slightly elevated at impact.

#2 Try a weird bridge that is higher. I actually tuck my middle finger under my forefinger. My forefinger is not not on top of middle finger but is actually slightly in front of it. Had a funny conversation with Earl about this in US Open parking lot, funny because we were both doing the same thing but different and both because of Shane. Earl was using a sandbag in an effort to make his bridge higher and I had been practicing putting a 3/4 inch book under my bridge hand. Earl says "Shane, he's got those friggin big rubber pencil fingers!" Anyways, try to make bridge a little higher so you can come straight down thru the cue ball striking it a half tip high but following trhu the center of it.

#3 Try to get a little separation between your right should and your back hand by standing up slightly and slowly as you start you backswing. You can see how that works simply by getting into your break stance, freeze your back hand and don't move it as you simple stand a little taller you'll see distance start to get created and your arm will extend a little more, giving you a little more stroke or whip.

#4 I know I said 3 but more comes to mind as I start typing this. Keep the backhand soft for as long as possible, loose muscles move faster. I don't think you'll have a problem with that as your back hand does look pretty soft already. I think about bringing the backhand to the front hand as fast as possible and that works for me.

You're not that far off, I think a couple inches in the right direction and you'll be poppin whitey back to a stop. Good luck.

BRussell
08-02-2017, 06:20 PM
Thanks Joe! I'm going to make a point of getting one of your books now ;)

pt109
08-02-2017, 06:32 PM
Thanks Joe! I'm going to make a point of getting one of your books now ;)

You're in good hands with Joe Tucker....
...he might've had more influence on breaking than Corey.

Cornerman
08-02-2017, 07:13 PM
I've had a long-time problem with my cue ball coming back towards me after I break. I figure I need to hit the cue ball higher, but now I'm doing something strange where I scoop upwards as I approach the cue ball. Any suggestions appreciated.

https://youtu.be/uoobKtXpclg

https://youtu.be/dhq-rCPMnmc

Second one looks good to me.

I see a lot of great breakers, live. The top ones aim low and raise that tip on that final stroke, due to dropping the elbows, leaning their hips, etc.


If you're hitting the balls squarely, then adjust your initial aim higher or lower depending on what your desire outcome is. I normally aim at the base of the cue ball.

You're fine.

Freddie

MattPoland
08-02-2017, 08:22 PM
I'm no expert but I usually strive for the following with a square hit 8-ball / 10-ball break...


If you are cutting the ball at all, take power off until your aim sharpens
Get power from an exaggerated follow-through (you seem good here)
Don't muscle your break (it looks like you are a bit)
Hit with marginal elevation, creating a mini jump shot so the cue ball pops up (and back) when hitting the rack
Hit with half a tip of top so the cue ball comes forward after bouncing back
Experiment with transition from being down on the shot into standing up and shifting you weight and hips forward with your transition to a forward stroke
Explore bridging from the rail while trying to get other body mechanics crisp
Agonize of getting a tight rack (if racking your own) as gaps will undermine your efforts with a dead on break
If you have gaps, learn from Joe Tucker
Slowly explore breaking from different angles (3" off center, 1 diamond off center, 1.3 diamonds off center, etc.)


I'm guessing the lack of shifting forward / standing up is why you're getting muscle in the break stroke which is causing the cue ball to hit the rack flat (and drawing back or spinning forward) instead of jumping off the slate by .5" or so.

Otherwise I don't feel qualified to comment on the scooping occurring with your shaft. I expect some vertical motion in the break stroke but I'm not sure it should be flicking-up like that. I believe the final moments of contact should be more through the ball.

medallio
08-02-2017, 08:48 PM
I think if you lift butt end you won't swoop as much

strmanglr scott
08-03-2017, 05:23 AM
First off, you look pretty good. I can see how the cue moving up above center is going to drive you nuts and lose you some power. If you look at the angle of your cue at the back of the back stroke, it looks fantastic and that's very close to the angle you would actually like to hit the cue ball at, maybe a hair less. That's going to be difficult to do but totally worth you trying.

I would try 3 things;
#1 and hate saying it but it may help, get 2-3 inches closer ONLY because that'll make it easier to keep the cue slightly elevated at impact.

#2 Try a weird bridge that is higher. I actually tuck my middle finger under my forefinger. My forefinger is not not on top of middle finger but is actually slightly in front of it. Had a funny conversation with Earl about this in US Open parking lot, funny because we were both doing the same thing but different and both because of Shane. Earl was using a sandbag in an effort to make his bridge higher and I had been practicing putting a 3/4 inch book under my bridge hand. Earl says "Shane, he's got those friggin big rubber pencil fingers!" Anyways, try to make bridge a little higher so you can come straight down thru the cue ball striking it a half tip high but following trhu the center of it.

#3 Try to get a little separation between your right should and your back hand by standing up slightly and slowly as you start you backswing. You can see how that works simply by getting into your break stance, freeze your back hand and don't move it as you simple stand a little taller you'll see distance start to get created and your arm will extend a little more, giving you a little more stroke or whip.

#4 I know I said 3 but more comes to mind as I start typing this. Keep the backhand soft for as long as possible, loose muscles move faster. I don't think you'll have a problem with that as your back hand does look pretty soft already. I think about bringing the backhand to the front hand as fast as possible and that works for me.

You're not that far off, I think a couple inches in the right direction and you'll be poppin whitey back to a stop. Good luck.

That makes me feel better about what I said.

I was thinking about what I said and thinking about your little swoop/dip thing in your stroke. I felt naive afterward thinking a suggestion of mechanics would solve it.

While mechanics can help that I'm guessing that stroke is pretty well ingrained in your game not just your break, is that right?

It would be something I'd be working on eliminating. Aa I said the mechanics of your stance and bridge, all that can and may need adjusting but that swoop/dip won't just magically go away w out a conscious effort.

You might try using a mini stroke before final stroke and concentrate on a straight, level stroke coming out of it.

marek
08-03-2017, 06:15 AM
I've had a long-time problem with my cue ball coming back towards me after I break. I figure I need to hit the cue ball higher, but now I'm doing something strange where I scoop upwards as I approach the cue ball. Any suggestions appreciated.

https://youtu.be/uoobKtXpclg

https://youtu.be/dhq-rCPMnmc

Scoop upwards is basically about elbow drop. Does it bother you? :rolleyes:

Vince_Former_BB
08-03-2017, 09:35 AM
I'm by no means an expert in mechanics by any stretch of the imagination but it seems pretty obvious from the slow-mo that your tip is starting off high, then drifting below center then coming up high again and finishing up way above center. Sort of like a sideways S shape......like this: ~ Basically, the path of the cue tip is over the charts. I think the ~ shape comes from raising and lowering your back hand as you move the cue forward. It can also come from raising your head too soon, having your entire body rise up too soon, shifting your weight too soon etc. It can also come from gripping the cue too tightly at various points in the stroke. You squeeze....the tip of the cue rises up especially as you're just about to make contact. My suggestion...try focusing on finishing the stroke with the cue pointed in a more pronounced downward angle and lighten up the grip. Just one guy's opinion.
V.

gxman
08-03-2017, 09:37 AM
How many mph with that break stance?

ceebee
08-03-2017, 11:42 AM
Here is where to hit the cue ball... for a lot of Breaks. This won't work for the Cut Break.