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View Full Version : At which point does a cue stop being about playability and start becoming Art?


WVShootist
08-05-2017, 07:09 AM
I got a $116 cue in the mail yesterday, took it out and played just as well with it as I do my $400 cue. Took it home, exact same length, both made the same vibration when tapped at different points, etc. Outside of inlays the only difference between the two is the $400 cue screws together more smoothly and has a silk wrap, which I think aids in lightening my grip some since there's nothing for the skin of my palm to stick to.

So I find myself wondering, what's the absolute point in which a pool cue is going to play as well as other cues? Like, I can tell when holding a house cue--the wood doesn't seem solid, the tips are kind of crappy, I can feel the poor quality in the cue. But now I'm kind of wondering, are $35-40 cues better than house cues? What's the minimum requirement for a cue to be considered a 'good playing' cue?

I realize a good pool player can just play regardless of equipment but in terms of equipment alone with the player taken out of the equation, what's fundamentally important?

Or even, let's say my $400 cue plays the same my the $116 cue because the $400 cue is in the same classification of cue. Would I notice a difference of wood quality and handling from a $400 cue when compared to a $1,000+ cue? I've looked online and most sources I've seen are from cue dealers trying to make a sale. So I wanted an opinion from the perspective of players instead.

mchnhed
08-05-2017, 07:19 AM
At about $116 no wrap.
$168 with a wrap.

Seriously, yes that P cue you got is a great cue.
I have 2 of them with a wrap as house cues.
I have two of their shafts for a Budweiser stealth cue and for a McD that's missing a shaft.
I have their SP sanded down and beat with a chain as a stealth cue.

Don't get me wrong, I have 15+ high ends Cues.
All except for the shafts have been bought used.

Each has their place.
I do love a pretty cue that also is a real player.
I would never spend more than maybe $1,000 for a used cue.

CuesDirectly
08-05-2017, 07:27 AM
[QUOTE=WVShootist;5941169]I got a $116 cue in the mail yesterday, took it out and played just as well with it as I do my $400 cue. Took it home, exact same length, both made the same vibration when tapped at different points, etc.


Vibration? If it's not solid, if it vibrates, it does not matter the cost, it sucks and you don't know the difference? If it vibrates due to tapping HOW IS THE BREAK? lol

Once you try a solid hitting cue, you will never go back..

WVShootist
08-05-2017, 07:31 AM
[QUOTE=WVShootist;5941169]I got a $116 cue in the mail yesterday, took it out and played just as well with it as I do my $400 cue. Took it home, exact same length, both made the same vibration when tapped at different points, etc.


Vibration? If it's not solid, if it vibrates, it does not matter the cost, it sucks and you don't know the difference? If it vibrates due to tapping HOW IS THE BREAK? lol

Once you try a solid hitting cue, you will never go back..

Tapping along the shaft, not the butt....

Also, I don't break with playing cues.

CuesDirectly
08-05-2017, 07:36 AM
Tapping along the shaft, not the butt....[/QUOTE]

Wow, sad to hear. Ask your Friends to try their cues and see if you have the same experience but make sure theirs is not the import model.

Chime back in if you see a difference, Thanks very much, Dave.

garczar
08-05-2017, 07:58 AM
What kinda snow-flake cue got there, bud? Never heard of silk wrapped cues.;)

WVShootist
08-05-2017, 08:02 AM
What kinda snow-flake cue got there, bud? Never heard of silk wrapped cues.;)

LOL My bad, 'linen wrapping.' Cue talk is an alien language to me, mistakes will be made here and there. Haha

lorider
08-05-2017, 08:26 AM
20.00 . I paid 20.00 for a brand new premier sneaky Pete. I took it to Vegas nationals and played the bed I have ever played. I have 12 cues and this 20.00 cue plays better than any of the rest which range from 150.00 to 2,500.00.

I put it in the closet after I got back from Vegas 4 years ago and took it out to olay in a 9 ball team tournament. A decent money tournament with about 3,000.00 for first. My opponent played about 8or 9 safes and I kicked out every time. . Some one on his team yelled out ...somebody take that stick away from him ...he aint missing nothing ...lol.

Its 4 years old now and looks as good and is a straight as the day I bought it. I only play with it during important matches such as the tournament above and apa ltc's .

I just got lucky when I bought this cue because i had heard horror stories about shipping cues to nationals on planes and did not want to take any of my other cues.

I got it at cost from a buddy of mine who bought a dozen of them from a vendor at the southern classic in tunica .

mchnhed
08-05-2017, 08:35 AM
Premier Cues http://www.omegabilliards.com/Premier_Cues_s/560.htm
I still think Players Cues are much better. Nicer quality for a cue under $200.
20.00 . I paid 20.00 for a brand new premier sneaky Pete. I took it to Vegas nationals and played the bed I have ever played. I have 12 cues and this 20.00 cue plays better than any of the rest which range from 150.00 to 2,500.00.

I put it in the closet after I got back from Vegas 4 years ago and took it out to olay in a 9 ball team tournament. A decent money tournament with about 3,000.00 for first. My opponent played about 8or 9 safes and I kicked out every time. . Some one on his team yelled out ...somebody take that stick away from him ...he aint missing nothing ...lol.

Its 4 years old now and looks as good and is a straight as the day I bought it. I only play with it during important matches such as the tournament above and apa ltc's .

I just got lucky when I bought this cue because i had heard horror stories about shipping cues to nationals on planes and did not want to take any of my other cues.

I got it at cost from a buddy of mine who bought a dozen of them from a vendor at the southern classic in tunica .

lorider
08-05-2017, 09:46 AM
Premier Cues http://www.omegabilliards.com/Premier_Cues_s/560.htm
I still think Players Cues are much better. Nicer quality for a cue under $200.

I am not going to dispute that. I have 2 players myself. Both are around 12 years old. One I carry with me in my 3x6 case for hard to reach shots. Its the only players cue that I have come across that has a built in extension that screws out and locks in place.

I had I for 6 months before I eve realized it had a built in extension. Actually a friend was inspecting it and saw a hotline gap between the handle and the lower but section. He pointed it out to me and I started turning it and lo and behold ...an extension lol .

captainjko
08-05-2017, 02:19 PM
I got a $116 cue in the mail yesterday, took it out and played just as well with it as I do my $400 cue. Took it home, exact same length, both made the same vibration when tapped at different points, etc. Outside of inlays the only difference between the two is the $400 cue screws together more smoothly and has a silk wrap, which I think aids in lightening my grip some since there's nothing for the skin of my palm to stick to.

So I find myself wondering, what's the absolute point in which a pool cue is going to play as well as other cues? Like, I can tell when holding a house cue--the wood doesn't seem solid, the tips are kind of crappy, I can feel the poor quality in the cue. But now I'm kind of wondering, are $35-40 cues better than house cues? What's the minimum requirement for a cue to be considered a 'good playing' cue?

I realize a good pool player can just play regardless of equipment but in terms of equipment alone with the player taken out of the equation, what's fundamentally important?

Or even, let's say my $400 cue plays the same my the $116 cue because the $400 cue is in the same classification of cue. Would I notice a difference of wood quality and handling from a $400 cue when compared to a $1,000+ cue? I've looked online and most sources I've seen are from cue dealers trying to make a sale. So I wanted an opinion from the perspective of players instead.
Do you know how many Dufferin house cues have been converted to 2 piece cues because of how good the wood is? I have converted several...

BRussell
08-05-2017, 02:48 PM
AT WHICH POINT DOES A CUE STOP BEING ABOUT PLAYABILITY ANS START BECOME NG ART?

At the joint: Anything from joint to butt end is art, anything from joint to tip is playability.

mvp
08-05-2017, 02:59 PM
I'd say it becomes art the second it doesn't make you play better!

Johnny Rosato
08-05-2017, 03:02 PM
I got a $116 cue in the mail yesterday, took it out and played just as well with it as I do my $400 cue. Took it home, exact same length, both made the same vibration when tapped at different points, etc. Outside of inlays the only difference between the two is the $400 cue screws together more smoothly and has a silk wrap, which I think aids in lightening my grip some since there's nothing for the skin of my palm to stick to.

So I find myself wondering, what's the absolute point in which a pool cue is going to play as well as other cues? Like, I can tell when holding a house cue--the wood doesn't seem solid, the tips are kind of crappy, I can feel the poor quality in the cue. But now I'm kind of wondering, are $35-40 cues better than house cues? What's the minimum requirement for a cue to be considered a 'good playing' cue?

I realize a good pool player can just play regardless of equipment but in terms of equipment alone with the player taken out of the equation, what's fundamentally important?

Or even, let's say my $400 cue plays the same my the $116 cue because the $400 cue is in the same classification of cue. Would I notice a difference of wood quality and handling from a $400 cue when compared to a $1,000+ cue? I've looked online and most sources I've seen are from cue dealers trying to make a sale. So I wanted an opinion from the perspective of players instead.
Minimum would be $49.00 McDermott Lucky. Now you need to realize this is my opinion! lol

DJSTEVEZ
08-05-2017, 04:49 PM
At which point does a cue stop being about playability and start becoming Art?
For most people, I'd say it starts when you're putting your budget together for the cue.

For me, it starts with how heartbroken I'd be if someone stole the cue.

I don't play (regularly) with my cues that I consider to be Art.

I have far more expensive cues, but my daily playing cue is a Lucasi...because if someone stole it while I was in the bathroom I'd be pissed, but I'd just order another one off the net when I got home.

IMHO the Lucasi cues play real nice. I like their hit, their quality and they're extremely reasonable in their cost.


The other issue is, what would I do if I caught someone(s) in the act of making off with one of my cues that I consider "Art".

Suffice to say there'd be a 911 call, Police, Lawyers and probably a lot of dry cleaning. Get the picture? Best to avoid that whole scenario. That's just me.
Regulators. We regulate any stealin' of his property. We’re damn good too. But you can’t be any geek off the street. You gotta be handy with the steel, if you know what I mean.


Do you know how many Dufferin house cues have been converted to 2 piece cues because of how good the wood is? I have converted several...

I have an original Dufferin SP, green label. No cue I own or have owned feels better to hit with. -Z-

Bavafongoul
08-05-2017, 04:59 PM
It's all about how much you are prepared and willing to spend on a cue.
If your budget is under a grand, the cue likely wouldn't be art like quality
except to its owner, And therein lies the rub....it's called having an opinion.

And so what qualifies are very ornate, intricate cue designs can appear
to be beautiful, imaginative and creative masterpiece cues. On the other
hand, there are going to be folks that find that very same cue to be gaudy,
gauche and a lot less appealing. How that sayin' go....."One man's meat
is another man's poison."..........so arbitrarily assigning terms like art to a
cue design is just someone's opinion which they're entitled to even when
they might be wrong.......again, it's just someone's opinion so who's to say?

You can spend $10-12k for a original Balaushka and that cue would hardly
qualify as "art", nor would a 4 point simple design Searing cue either which
could cost just as much. So as you can see, price by itself is a unreliable &
imperfect way to label any cue design as art. In my opinion, it comes down
to how you personally feel about a cue in which case call it what you want.

JazzboxBlues
08-05-2017, 07:28 PM
I think they're all about playabilty. As far as art work it can be anywhere from a Sneaky to something incredibly ornate. I personally like cues with little to no inlays and find your typical Southwest to be as nice as it gets. I own a Blackcreek Sneaky it has outstanding fullsplice construction and long sharp points. I would call it art work. I guess it all in the eye of the beholder.

Type79
08-05-2017, 07:52 PM
Never heard of silk wrapped cues.;)

The gold cue in the attached picture is wrapped with silk.

justinb386
08-05-2017, 09:14 PM
I got a $116 cue in the mail yesterday, took it out and played just as well with it as I do my $400 cue. Took it home, exact same length, both made the same vibration when tapped at different points, etc. Outside of inlays the only difference between the two is the $400 cue screws together more smoothly and has a silk wrap, which I think aids in lightening my grip some since there's nothing for the skin of my palm to stick to.

So I find myself wondering, what's the absolute point in which a pool cue is going to play as well as other cues? Like, I can tell when holding a house cue--the wood doesn't seem solid, the tips are kind of crappy, I can feel the poor quality in the cue. But now I'm kind of wondering, are $35-40 cues better than house cues? What's the minimum requirement for a cue to be considered a 'good playing' cue?

I realize a good pool player can just play regardless of equipment but in terms of equipment alone with the player taken out of the equation, what's fundamentally important?

Or even, let's say my $400 cue plays the same my the $116 cue because the $400 cue is in the same classification of cue. Would I notice a difference of wood quality and handling from a $400 cue when compared to a $1,000+ cue? I've looked online and most sources I've seen are from cue dealers trying to make a sale. So I wanted an opinion from the perspective of players instead.

I think that all cues have their own unique type of feel, and hit. Schon cues for example have their own very solid type of hit (it is a unique type of solid hit, in my opinion). Other cues have their own unique type of hit, like Diveney cues for example. Any player who is really serious about pool will know the difference in the feel and hit of a cue, and they will know what they like in a cue. To all others, they might just want to buy what ever the pros are endorsing, or playing with.

justinb386
08-05-2017, 09:17 PM
[QUOTE=WVShootist;5941169]I got a $116 cue in the mail yesterday, took it out and played just as well with it as I do my $400 cue. Took it home, exact same length, both made the same vibration when tapped at different points, etc.


Vibration? If it's not solid, if it vibrates, it does not matter the cost, it sucks and you don't know the difference? If it vibrates due to tapping HOW IS THE BREAK? lol

Once you try a solid hitting cue, you will never go back..

Meucci cues come to mind, when you talk about a cue vibrating like that, and they are very nice players in my opinion.

justinb386
08-05-2017, 09:26 PM
20.00 . I paid 20.00 for a brand new premier sneaky Pete. I took it to Vegas nationals and played the bed I have ever played. I have 12 cues and this 20.00 cue plays better than any of the rest which range from 150.00 to 2,500.00.

I put it in the closet after I got back from Vegas 4 years ago and took it out to olay in a 9 ball team tournament. A decent money tournament with about 3,000.00 for first. My opponent played about 8or 9 safes and I kicked out every time. . Some one on his team yelled out ...somebody take that stick away from him ...he aint missing nothing ...lol.

Its 4 years old now and looks as good and is a straight as the day I bought it. I only play with it during important matches such as the tournament above and apa ltc's .

I just got lucky when I bought this cue because i had heard horror stories about shipping cues to nationals on planes and did not want to take any of my other cues.

I got it at cost from a buddy of mine who bought a dozen of them from a vendor at the southern classic in tunica .

What did you like about it? You liked the taper of the shaft, and you must have really like the way it hit, if you did that well out in Vegas. I went out to Vegas when I was 21 (without a cue), and played in the Singles mini tournaments, with my team captains old Meucci cue. I won 7 out of the 8 Mini tournaments that I played in, which were single elimination, with an old worn out Meucci. Loved the way it played.

justinb386
08-05-2017, 09:30 PM
At the joint: Anything from joint to butt end is art, anything from joint to tip is playability.

I disagree. The butt does play a good part in how the shaft will hit when attached to it. For example, I tried a few Diveney shafts attached to a cheap quality butt, and I did not care for the way the cue hit. If those shafts would have been attached to an actual Diveney cue, then I bet I would have really loved the way they hit.

PhilosopherKing
08-05-2017, 09:38 PM
The gold cue in the attached picture is wrapped with silk.

is that gold wrap material or comparable still available?

thanks

mchnhed
08-05-2017, 10:17 PM
is that gold wrap material or comparable still available?
thanks
Check aliexpress.com for gold silk thread.

WVShootist
08-06-2017, 12:14 AM
Do you know how many Dufferin house cues have been converted to 2 piece cues because of how good the wood is? I have converted several...

I don't know how many, no. But I don't think that discredits my statement about most house cues being of lesser quality than most everyone here would find desirable.

Ched
08-06-2017, 01:01 AM
At the joint: Anything from joint to butt end is art, anything from joint to tip is playability.

I'd never heard it put this way before - and I'm an old man. I like the saying. (I'd imagine it's been around a long time)

sixpack
08-06-2017, 01:03 AM
I don't know how many, no. But I don't think that discredits my statement about most house cues being of lesser quality than most everyone here would find desirable.

I've played so much in bars and on the road that I love house cues. The hit is great and the feeling and feedback of a one-piece cue is unmatched by any two piece cue I've hit. I have some great two piece cues but sometimes I just grab a house cue and play with it for a while. Just for fun.

WVShootist
08-06-2017, 06:41 AM
I've played so much in bars and on the road that I love house cues. The hit is great and the feeling and feedback of a one-piece cue is unmatched by any two piece cue I've hit. I have some great two piece cues but sometimes I just grab a house cue and play with it for a while. Just for fun.

Oh they're definitley fine if the place maintains them, my dad routinely schools me with house cues. I'm just so used to getting ones with shake and wobble. I guess I've never used whatever kind the guy commenting earlier was talking about, I would have definitley saved some cash just finding a great house cue and having it cut and screwed. Haha

Cornerman
08-06-2017, 02:40 PM
I got a $116 cue in the mail yesterday, took it out and played just as well with it as I do my $400 cue. Took it home, exact same length, both made the same vibration when tapped at different points, etc. Outside of inlays the only difference between the two is the $400 cue screws together more smoothly and has a silk wrap, which I think aids in lightening my grip some since there's nothing for the skin of my palm to stick to.

So I find myself wondering, what's the absolute point in which a pool cue is going to play as well as other cues? Like, I can tell when holding a house cue--the wood doesn't seem solid, the tips are kind of crappy, I can feel the poor quality in the cue. But now I'm kind of wondering, are $35-40 cues better than house cues? What's the minimum requirement for a cue to be considered a 'good playing' cue?

I realize a good pool player can just play regardless of equipment but in terms of equipment alone with the player taken out of the equation, what's fundamentally important?

Or even, let's say my $400 cue plays the same my the $116 cue because the $400 cue is in the same classification of cue. Would I notice a difference of wood quality and handling from a $400 cue when compared to a $1,000+ cue? I've looked online and most sources I've seen are from cue dealers trying to make a sale. So I wanted an opinion from the perspective of players instead.
Are you asking a question like this because you truly have no idea at what "point" a cue is about art instead of only playability, or are you trying to teach with a profound point?

If it's the former, then the answer is: the moment you consider looks as part of the value of buying a cue, that's when it becomes a question of art and not only playability.

I have a cue that still has the sticker: $49.95. It's as much cue as anyone in the world needs to win championships. I have a Universal cue that I didn't buy for looks that has a low squirt shaft and an extension that screws in. MR price is about $250. If someone wanted those two considerations for function, that's about as low as it gets. I believe the Cuetec R360 with an extension is actually slightly more expensive.

If your question was the latter, and you're trying to pontificate and teach us the horrors of our low self esteem, materialistic ways , you're entirely too late and not bringing up anything new by about 40 years. Welcome to the party.

I want art included in any cuestick purchase. I get that choice. I deserve that option. We all do.


Freddie

Type79
08-06-2017, 02:55 PM
... the moment you consider looks as part of the value of buying a cue, that's when it becomes a question of art and not only playability.
Freddie

You beat me to it.

IMO, 99% of players chose a cue because of it's visual appeal.

mchnhed
08-06-2017, 04:03 PM
IMO, 99% of players chose a cue because of it's visual appeal.
That's why graphic decal Cues out sell SP's and Plain Janes.

WVShootist
08-06-2017, 06:30 PM
Are you asking a question like this because you truly have no idea at what "point" a cue is about art instead of only playability, or are you trying to teach with a profound point?

If it's the former, then the answer is: the moment you consider looks as part of the value of buying a cue, that's when it becomes a question of art and not only playability.

I have a cue that still has the sticker: $49.95. It's as much cue as anyone in the world needs to win championships. I have a Universal cue that I didn't buy for looks that has a low squirt shaft and an extension that screws in. MR price is about $250. If someone wanted those two considerations for function, that's about as low as it gets. I believe the Cuetec R360 with an extension is actually slightly more expensive.

If your question was the latter, and you're trying to pontificate and teach us the horrors of our low self esteem, materialistic ways , you're entirely too late and not bringing up anything new by about 40 years. Welcome to the party.

I want art included in any cuestick purchase. I get that choice. I deserve that option. We all do.


Freddie

No, literally just looking for a definitive explination to what materials and price point is considered a 'good enough' cue. I go to buy cues, I see thousands ranging from $20-$4,000, and I wonder "if I didn't care about anything but a solid playing cue, let's say the whole thing is the color of the shaft, absolutely plain. At which point do I stop considering materials necessary and start considering the next best type of wood a luxury?"