PDA

View Full Version : Tips


sciarco
08-07-2017, 11:00 AM
Its probably been beaten to death but here we go,layered tips or non layered which is better thanks.

mchnhed
08-07-2017, 11:03 AM
Its probably been beaten to death but here we go...
layered tips or non layered.
Which is better thanks.
Single.
Pressed.
More Consistent.
More Durable.
:deadhorse:

tonythetiger583
08-07-2017, 11:05 AM
Its probably been beaten to death but here we go,layered tips or non layered which is better thanks.


Pressed single layered tips (preferably milkduds).

They don't mushroom, they don't glaze, and you can tip pik them worry-free.

Edit: I also find they seem to last longer for me (I don't know why) And I find with single layered, they seem to get better the more you play with them.

Re-edit: I don't think they will ever play as well as a fresh multi-layered tip, but overall I'd trade the small lack of performance, for everything else.

crazysnake
08-07-2017, 11:34 AM
Currently using ultra skin SIB pro. No issues. Actually I've never had a layered tip come apart. I do occasionally like to use triangles though.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Johnny Rosato
08-07-2017, 12:14 PM
Single layer, LePro, Triangle, or Pooldawg8 Milkduds only for me. I do have 3 or 4 of the original Chandivert Champions put up, with 1 installed on 1 of my shafts. I've wasted plenty of time & $$$ on that layered nonsense!

Coop1701
08-07-2017, 12:41 PM
I switched to the Cyborg Quick Medium multi layer. I love it. So far no issues.

WildWing
08-07-2017, 01:17 PM
Years ago I would have said Moori and a few other layered tips were good. Now, I don't think so, as they glaze over too quickly. A good dense Triangle is now my choice, and I don't see that changing.

All the best,
WW

hang-the-9
08-07-2017, 02:21 PM
If you ask 100 players you will get 50 different answers.

You can't just ask about layered or not, there are a dozen major categories in each one along with another dozen minor categories such as pressed, treated, small hardness variations, number of layers, types of leather used.. Just like with shafts, there is no better or best, there is what you like the hit of and how it works with how you play.

Agent 99
08-07-2017, 03:49 PM
I am a long time non-layered tip guy. I prefer the durability and the consistency of a one piece tip over time compared to a layered tip.

Recently I tested a new cue and it came with an Ultraskin hard tip. I have played this cue 4 to 5 times a week for the last 3 or 4 months. This tip has been outstanding -- actually pleasantly surprised.

No mushroom, no glazing, and a few turns of the Williard and it's just perfect and holds chalk well. This tip completely out performs Kamui, or for that matter any layered tip I have ever owned. I have never owned a Zen or a G2, but have heard a number of good players talk favorably about them both.

The vast majority of layered tips in my opinion are nothing but junk, and sometimes expensive junk.

If I were you, or someone looking for the 'right tip,' I would test Pooldawg's milk dud and Renfro's ki-tech. They are both fantastic one piece tips.

I would also test the Zen, G2 and the Ultraskin layered tips and make a decision. In my opinion you would be selecting from the best tips available today.

Good luck.

Straightpool_99
08-07-2017, 04:18 PM
I shot Moori M's since I started playing, along with Kamuis and Snipers, and I always thought they were the best. Then I changed my game around a couple of years ago. I'm relying less on slow spinning etc..play a more firm game, like a hybrid of the two styles. At that time I ditched the expensive and temperamental layered tips. I just got fed up by all the issues, glazing, changing hardness, and IMO inconsistent behavior of the cueball.

I now have a LePro on my main playing shaft. A couple of shafts have home made milk duds on them. These are single layer tips and I get just as much spin as before, but more controlled. Best of all they cost a FRACTION of what the layered tips cost. My cueball control is better and I rarely think of the tip at all. I just chalk normally and scuff every now and then. My tips seem to last forever, I never have to take a lot away, because the top layer hardned, like I had to many times with the Mooris, Kamuis, Snipers and all the other expensive junk tips.

Now and then I try friends shaft which tend to have layered tips on them. I think they feel funny. I used to shy away from certain shots, because they'd eventually ruin my tip. I rarely shot jumpshots full cue, even though I easily could, because they'd ruin my 20 dollar tip. Now I use my LePro and don't worry, I'm shooting all the shots: jumps, masses, power shots, you name it. . Should I ruin it, then big deal, I'll just install another, but that never happens. All that happens is that the tip is very slowly hardening, but it's still just as playable as before. Some would say LePros even get better as they harden. Personally I wouldn't go that far, but they are just as good, just slightly different. And Milkduds are winning several of my friends over. They just work and there is rarely any fuss with them.

Danimal
08-07-2017, 04:25 PM
Pooldawg for President

JazzboxBlues
08-07-2017, 07:27 PM
I always played with a Moori medium before the 10 year layoff. Now I'm currently figuring out what I like. I know I don't like Kamui's. The Moori medium I have on my main player and feel it's hard. I've got a Precision medium I'm trying out on another cue and find it a little soft but I only used it for a couple hours of playing. This could change with more use. As of now I prefer the Moori. I also just ordered 2 of Richard Harris' new tips in medium hard. I'll give them a try. I've yet to try a milk dud.

MalibuMike
08-07-2017, 08:07 PM
Dennis Searing's Precision Tips! Like a cross between a old Moori and a G2, these tips are awesome! Everyone I have seen try one has switched, even hardcore Tailsmen, Ultraskin, Zan, Onyx, Sniper, G2, Moori, Kamuii, users!
I like the Mediums, some like the Hards. Have not tried the soft ones yet.
They hold there shap, hardly ever gloss over if you use the right chalk, Taom Chalk works great on them! If you buy them directly from Dennis Searing
they are only $10 each. I have seen them go for $35 on other sites!

9Ballr
08-07-2017, 08:32 PM
I've tried the Precision, didn't like them.

Back to my trusty Triangle.

For me nothing beats them.

Single layer, virtually zero maintenance and the feel you get from the hit is unmatched.

Straightpool_99
08-08-2017, 09:23 AM
You know, every time a new layered tip comes out, they claim to have solved all the problems with the layers and glue, but guess what: They cannot. The technology itself is flawed. The glazing and inconsistency in behaviour is inherent in the design itself. For cue shafts the lamination technology is actually pretty good. I don't personally like them anymore, but they are consistent and perform well, though they feel dead. Tips on the other hand...When the layer of leather is so thin, funny things happen to it. It hardens quickly and tends to glaze, not to speak of delamination and various glue issues...No other solution than to take some of the tip off. Every time you do that, the cycle gets shorter until you have no tip left. I would recommend a super expensive layered tip to only one type of player: The kind who wants maximum spin with minimum effort AND is willing to change tips every fourteen days. That's what it takes to get consistent, perfect behavior. I'd rather have a tip that does the exact same thing for 3 years at maybe 95'% of the performance of a new layered tip, than one who is brillant for fourteen days and then sucks more and more until you have to cut it off 6 months later. Control and consistency are much more important to me and I'm not changing tips every fourteen days.

Eventually they will be replaced by some kind of synthetic material, but in the mean time I'm sticking with single layer leather. You can always trust a good single layer tip not to give you any surprises. Since I quit using layered tips, I almost completely quit overdrawing my cueball. I miscue less often as well. I can still power draw just as well, I just don't get the mega draw unexpectedly anymore. Everything is more controllable, including sidespin, and I don't have to contend with tips that are so soft they move on contact. Kamui SS actually feels like a pencil eraser to shoot with...Some of the hardest layered tips are actually close to impossible to apply chalk to (apart from gimmick chalk that ruins the cloth) unless you scuff like a maniac every 5 minutes. Aint nobody got time fo dat.

mchnhed
08-08-2017, 09:54 AM
One of the problems I see with current multi-layer tips is.....
Too many layers.

Why do Tips have to be like modern shavers?
5 Blades on a Head!
SNL did a skit in the 90's about the silliness of a 20 blade shaver!
And another thing....Why so tall? Most people say they cut away almost half during install.
Less layers but thicker (obviously) would solve the glaze problem and still give a perception of consistency with layers.

Only Four, Five, Six Layers.
What do all of you think of less layers?
Would anyone buy these?
Or should we head down the road of 12, 14, 20 layers?

sciarco
08-08-2017, 10:12 AM
Never tried a triangle tip but i'm going to have one installed this weekend.

philly
08-08-2017, 10:42 AM
Single.
Pressed.
More Consistent.
More Durable.
:deadhorse:

Bingo. Rarely have to touch them. Just play. Hard pressed Triangle. The bonus is they are about a buck apiece I wish they were a little more consistent from tip to tip though. Go ahead, spend $40 on a tip if you want.

Johnny Rosato
08-08-2017, 10:59 AM
Never tried a triangle tip but i'm going to have one installed this weekend.
Wise choice. That or a LePro or a pooldawg8 milkdud!

buckets
08-08-2017, 11:34 AM
tip choice literally doesn't matter at all imho

as long as it's well groomed, holds chalk and you like the hit then it's all gravy

I use homemade milk duds and they're great

Texas Carom Club
08-08-2017, 11:39 AM
One of the problems I see with current multi-layer tips is.....
Too many layers.

Why do Tips have to be like modern shavers?
5 Blades on a Head!
SNL did a skit in the 90's about the silliness of a 20 blade shaver!
And another thing....Why so tall? Most people say they cut away almost half during install.
Less layers but thicker (obviously) would solve the glaze problem and still give a perception of consistency with layers.

Only Four, Five, Six Layers.
What do all of you think of less layers?
Would anyone buy these?
Or should we head down the road of 12, 14, 20 layers?


for a self proclaimed newb, you certainly have a strong opinion on tips

Ghosst
08-08-2017, 11:40 AM
... ... ... ...

Texas Carom Club
08-08-2017, 11:41 AM
Its probably been beaten to death but here we go,layered tips or non layered which is better thanks.

try both, figure whats better for you

i use layered, single piece just feels wrong on the hit to me

tonythetiger583
08-08-2017, 11:42 AM
One of the problems I see with current multi-layer tips is.....
Too many layers.

Why do Tips have to be like modern shavers?
5 Blades on a Head!
SNL did a skit in the 90's about the silliness of a 20 blade shaver!
And another thing....Why so tall? Most people say they cut away almost half during install.
Less layers but thicker (obviously) would solve the glaze problem and still give a perception of consistency with layers.

Only Four, Five, Six Layers.
What do all of you think of less layers?
Would anyone buy these?
Or should we head down the road of 12, 14, 20 layers?

I'm actually playing with an elkmaster milkdud and half an elkmaster milkdud glued together (So it starts off a bit taller). So it's kinda like a 2 layered tip.

Ghosst
08-08-2017, 12:24 PM
On a related note:

Darren once gave the following, paraphrased, nugget: "People who have short strokes should be using soft tips. People who have big strokes, like Shane, want harder tips."

I took that under advisement and watched a few people I know, some who shoot great and some who don't. His observation was accurate. The better players who had very compact strokes were using very soft tips, and the rotation players who moved the cue ball around a lot were using harder ones. The newer players didn't have a clue what was on theirs, or didn't really care.

Most of the very soft tip people were using single layer tips.

KMRUNOUT
08-08-2017, 12:52 PM
tip choice literally doesn't matter at all imho

as long as it's well groomed, holds chalk and you like the hit then it's all gravy

I use homemade milk duds and they're great



So as long as it's a tip you like, tip choice doesn't matter. Makes sense ;-)

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87673)

Dave-Kat
08-08-2017, 01:14 PM
Tried many, settled on one pc a few years ago for all reasons mentioned by respected Members who posted who prefer a 1 pc over the many current and 'new and improved' Layered offerings coming out weekly.

Straight up Triangle's are my go to, Dawgs Duds are top shelf, consistent, hard and provide excellent action. If you can pick through box of newer LePro's they also play very nice.

The only Layered tips I like are 5 layer SuperPro's which are nice and 'firm' and play close to 1 pc but need more attention than said 1 pc tips.

I loathe cutting my well used, old broken in short Triangle off my player. That is when it is at it's best.

Like anything in life it's all a personal preference on what you choose to use for equipment. Many of my friends will play nothing but Moori, Kamui, G2 etc and think I am nuts playing with a $1 tip when I can afford, play and install anything I choose. To each their own.

Have a good day,

-Kat,

bad_hit
08-08-2017, 01:18 PM
Layered tips are usually so bad they make you wanna break your cue in half and go golfing instead. That said - Ultraskin are good. G2 are ok. Might be some others.

Anything Kamui is complete garbage and you're a sucker for buying it. Single layer pressed tips are awesome, except that they're all different out of a box. If someone made a good consistently manufactured single layered tip these days it'd be wildly popular.

Superiorduper
08-08-2017, 01:25 PM
I like all medium tips once then become hard, they still grip but have that crispy tone...any hard tip I've installed and played with doesn't feel nor sound right, they also don't seem to grip the cue ball adequately.

Single layered pressed tips work well, milk duds, outsville mediums, a good triangle or lepro all do their job, but sometimes I feel they lack a sort of "bounce" sensation. Sometimes they have it sometimes they don't, hard to really describe I guess.

As far as layered tips go, I've always liked SIB mediums once they've been played with, say maybe 3-4 layers left, same with ZAN mediums, kamui brown mediums, kamikazi brown mediums, the old tiger snipers.

Hated the precision tips, didn't like G2's that much either, nor will I ever buy another kamui tip, any black tip for that matter. They always seem to glaze quicker, which is no big deal but I'd just rather not have to scuff my tip every other rack.

Currently have been playing with zan mediums and think they're great as far as holding chalk and minimum break in period.

Ferrule material and shaft/shaft taper play a huge roll in finding that certain sensation and tone just as much as the cue tip though, along with proper installation.

It's all subjective though so you just gotta try and find out whatcha like.

Dave-Kat
08-08-2017, 01:38 PM
This is very true and a good point:thumbup:

-Kat,



I like all medium tips once then become hard, they still grip but have that crispy tone...any hard tip I've installed and played with doesn't feel nor sound right, they also don't seem to grip the cue ball adequately.

Single layered pressed tips work well, milk duds, outsville mediums, a good triangle or lepro all do their job, but sometimes I feel they lack a sort of "bounce" sensation. Sometimes they have it sometimes they don't, hard to really describe I guess.

As far as layered tips go, I've always liked SIB mediums once they've been played with, say maybe 3-4 layers left, same with ZAN mediums, kamui brown mediums, kamikazi brown mediums, the old tiger snipers.

Hated the precision tips, didn't like G2's that much either, nor will I ever buy another kamui tip, any black tip for that matter. They always seem to glaze quicker, which is no big deal but I'd just rather not have to scuff my tip every other rack.

Currently have been playing with zan mediums and think they're great as far as holding chalk and minimum break in period.

Ferrule material and shaft/shaft taper play a huge roll in finding that certain sensation and tone just as much as the cue tip though, along with proper installation.

It's all subjective though so you just gotta try and find out whatcha like.

Superiorduper
08-08-2017, 01:40 PM
One of the problems I see with current multi-layer tips is.....
Too many layers.

Why do Tips have to be like modern shavers?
5 Blades on a Head!
SNL did a skit in the 90's about the silliness of a 20 blade shaver!
And another thing....Why so tall? Most people say they cut away almost half during install.
Less layers but thicker (obviously) would solve the glaze problem and still give a perception of consistency with layers.

Only Four, Five, Six Layers.
What do all of you think of less layers?
Would anyone buy these?
Or should we head down the road of 12, 14, 20 layers?

Dr. Cheng sells Hirano cue tips on eBay, they're 4 layer but thicker layers than the norm. The medium was great, the two days after I installed it then became much too hard without the grip.

I've been wanting to order the softs but haven't gotten to it. They also take a few weeks to arrive in the mail but I'd be willing to bet they play pretty sufficient.

I apologize for the double post, I just read this feller's post and felt compelled to let him know that there is a "less" layered tip on the market, and I truly think that a less layers but thicker layer tip will be the future.

measureman
08-08-2017, 01:47 PM
I've tried a number of layered tips.
Some were good,some were not.
I got tired of paying $25 and up for a tip installed.
I went back to good old Triangle tips.
I pay $13 for one installed.
$20 for one installed with a shaft cleaning and waxing.
And they play just fine.

M.G.
08-08-2017, 01:53 PM
Really, what's better: blondes or red heads?

:grin-square:

Different tips for different people - try both and decide afterwards.
And layered tips don't need to be horribly expensive - the SIBs and Ultra Skins are always a good start.

And don't be afraid to try layered ones in soft! Whole different experience.

Cheers,
M

mchnhed
08-08-2017, 02:00 PM
Dr. Cheng sells Hirano cue tips on eBay, they're 4 layer but thicker layers than the norm.

I just read this feller's post and felt compelled to let him know that there is a "less" layered tip on the market, and I truly think that a less layers but thicker layer tip will be the future.
One of the problems I see with current multi-layer tips is.....
Too many layers.

Why do Tips have to be like modern shavers?
5 Blades on a Head!
SNL did a skit in the 90's about the silliness of a 20 blade shaver!
And another thing....Why so tall? Most people say they cut away almost half during install.
Less layers but thicker layers (obviously) would solve the glaze problem and still give a perception of consistency with layers.

Only Four, Five, Six Layers.
What do all of you think of less layers?
Would anyone buy these?
Or should we head down the road of 12, 14, 20 layers?


for a self proclaimed newb, you certainly have a strong opinion on tips
Just the design.
I have no real or long term experience with brands.
That's why I speak in generalities of design.
Too many layers = Too much adhesive.
Too much adhesive = A tip made mostly of synthetic material.
And you know how that has been turning out.

Thank You both for your kind comments.
There are some on AzB who love to beat people up who do not agree with the "norm".

Beneath - You should see what I'm saying about "Teaching Tables"(tm).
Augmented Reality Pool Tables.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=457679

tonythetiger583
08-08-2017, 10:49 PM
Really, what's better: blondes or red heads?

:grin-square:

Different tips for different people - try both and decide afterwards.
And layered tips don't need to be horribly expensive - the SIBs and Ultra Skins are always a good start.

And don't be afraid to try layered ones in soft! Whole different experience.

Cheers,
M

Redheads, they don't mushroom, don't glaze over, and you can tip ***** them without fear...i swear we covered this already.

Texas Carom Club
08-09-2017, 04:22 AM
Kamui clear medium don't mushroom either
But only suckers would know that lol!

Coop1701
08-09-2017, 05:12 AM
On a related note:

Darren once gave the following, paraphrased, nugget: "People who have short strokes should be using soft tips. People who have big strokes, like Shane, want harder tips."

I took that under advisement and watched a few people I know, some who shoot great and some who don't. His observation was accurate. The better players who had very compact strokes were using very soft tips, and the rotation players who moved the cue ball around a lot were using harder ones. The newer players didn't have a clue what was on theirs, or didn't really care.

Most of the very soft tip people were using single layer tips.

That actually makes a little sense. I hate comparing pool to tennis. However when I used to live in Charlotte. A lot of people would bring their rackets to me because I was pretty good at stringing them. Looking over the racket. Asking them about their game. I could usually guess what kind of string to use and the proper weight to string at.

I think the same thing would apply depending upon, shaft, weight and the person stroke. Good info.

Straightpool_99
08-09-2017, 05:25 AM
That actually makes a little sense. I hate comparing pool to tennis. However when I used to live in Charlotte. A lot of people would bring their rackets to me because I was pretty good at stringing them. Looking over the racket. Asking them about their game. I could usually guess what kind of string to use and the proper weight to string at.

I think the same thing would apply depending upon, shaft, weight and the person stroke. Good info.

If you play softly, then a soft tip won't harden quickly. Also you may prefer the soft feel to give you more of a "pushing" feeling on the soft shots. I used to play a soft game, and when I put a hard tip on, I felt like I completely lost control on the short, soft shots.

In general, I feel that a hard tip is more demanding of your stroke, but it also gives you more power and more direct feedback to the hand. I would never recommend a hard tip to a beginner. At most a medium, but generally soft. If your stroke is good, then it's all a matter of preference, though I've never met a "soft" player that prefers hard tips, I'm sure that somewhere a guy like that exists.

philly
08-09-2017, 05:35 AM
If you play softly, then a soft tip won't harden quickly. Also you may prefer the soft feel to give you more of a "pushing" feeling on the soft shots. I used to play a soft game, and when I put a hard tip on, I felt like I completely lost control on the short, soft shots.

In general, I feel that a hard tip is more demanding of your stroke, but it also gives you more power and more direct feedback to the hand. I would never recommend a hard tip to a beginner. At most a medium, but generally soft. If your stroke is good, then it's all a matter of preference, though I've never met a "soft" player that prefers hard tips, I'm sure that somewhere a guy like that exists.

Not sure what a soft player is. One who plays 14.1 exclusively? I think in every game, 3 cushion included, soft shots and power strokes are required. Do you mean a beginner who is what I call a "slow roller"?

Straightpool_99
08-09-2017, 05:45 AM
Not sure what a soft player is. One who plays 14.1 exclusively? I think in every game, 3 cushion included, soft shots and power strokes are required. Do you mean a beginner who is what I call a "slow roller"?

I mean someone who prefers to shoot softly whenever that is an option, using spin to get around.

Icon of Sin
08-09-2017, 06:15 AM
Which do you like more? That is your answer.

philly
08-09-2017, 06:26 AM
I mean someone who prefers to shoot softly whenever that is an option, using spin to get around.

Well, I guess that's me. I prefer the CB travel the shortest distance possible when I can and I use a hard pressed triangle. I think the harder the tip, the better it takes spin as the tip compresses less and more of the stroke is transferred to the CB. Less energy is transferred to the tip. I think is wrong thinking that a soft tip produces more spin. Perhaps Dr. Dave will weigh in again.

Texas Carom Club
08-09-2017, 06:36 AM
Carom player, libre,balkline and 1 cushion use tons of spin
And masse, lil masse, shots all the time

They primarily use soft tips,
Never hard

If it's solid and hard, it'll just push through, that's why they use them on jump cues

The soft tip will grab the ball, and produce the spin better than a hard one


Take a pen , with the cap on, lay a spray can on the side and stroke it trying to spin it

Then try that with a pencil eraser

strmanglr scott
08-09-2017, 07:11 AM
I've tried a number of layered tips.
Some were good,some were not.
I got tired of paying $25 and up for a tip installed.
I went back to good old Triangle tips.
I pay $13 for one installed.
$20 for one installed with a shaft cleaning and waxing.
And they play just fine.

Yep, after having a few different tips this is where I ended up too.

Cheap, plays great, don't feel like I'm scrubbing dollars off my tip when I scuff it up.

dr_dave
08-27-2017, 04:06 PM
Well, I guess that's me. I prefer the CB travel the shortest distance possible when I can and I use a hard pressed triangle. I think the harder the tip, the better it takes spin as the tip compresses less and more of the stroke is transferred to the CB. Less energy is transferred to the tip. I think is wrong thinking that a soft tip produces more spin. Perhaps Dr. Dave will weigh in again."Can a hard (soft) tip put more spin on the CB than a soft (hard) tip?"

The short answer is: No.

For the long answer, see the cue tip hardness effects resource page (http://billiards.colostate.edu/FAQ/cue-tip/hardness/).

Regards,
Dave

jalapus logan
08-29-2017, 06:57 PM
It really depends on if you have a carbon fiber cue such as Revo. Revo is high up on the good and may well play more stratospherically better when paired with a semi-layered tip.

Now, if you prefer a Birdseye maple shaft with a fairly oblong ferrule, then this condition usually calls for 11.4 layers of salt cured buffalo eyelids. Anything else and you will be shooting skidders!

Tony_in_MD
08-29-2017, 07:31 PM
If there was a best then everyone would be playing with the same type of tip.

As I am sure you have read in this thread there are pros and cons for both, but it really all comes down to what you prefer, and there is no right or wrong to that.


Its probably been beaten to death but here we go,layered tips or non layered which is better thanks.

buckets
08-29-2017, 09:35 PM
Its probably been beaten to death but here we go,layered tips or non layered which is better thanks.

literally doesn't matter

any tip that holds chalk and keeps shape is going to be perfectly fine

lepros are fine, triangles and elkys are great (with or without milk), kamui plays swell, and zan's the man

all the same as far as i'm concerned

buckets
08-29-2017, 09:37 PM
It really depends on if you have a carbon fiber cue such as Revo. Revo is high up on the good and may well play more stratospherically better when paired with a semi-layered tip.

Now, if you prefer a Birdseye maple shaft with a fairly oblong ferrule, then this condition usually calls for 11.4 layers of salt cured buffalo eyelids. Anything else and you will be shooting skidders!

finally someone who knows what's up

get this man a beer