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deanoc
08-13-2017, 05:41 AM
after all these years I realize i just bank poorly

is there something that could actually help me
i tend to hit my banks short

also i only play one pocket so i need to bank pocket speed

Black-Balled
08-13-2017, 05:43 AM
after all these years I realize i just bank poorly

is there something that could actually help me
i tend to hit my banks short

also i only play one pocket so i need to bank pocket speed

No. You play how you are going to play and it took you a long time to get there.

Have you ever tried the 'make it happen' approach?

336Robin
08-13-2017, 05:47 AM
after all these years I realize i just bank poorly

is there something that could actually help me
i tend to hit my banks short

also i only play one pocket so i need to bank pocket speed

Accept the fact that you are banking short and adjust your spot to hit on the rail.

If you need to bank pocket speed sounds like youre not. If you do even then sometimes your spot on the rail needs to be adjusted just a little short of the half way point.

greyghost
08-13-2017, 05:53 AM
Tend to hit them short all the time or when going from Brunswick to a diamond?


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garczar
08-13-2017, 06:06 AM
Get a copy of the Beard's book. Its kinda like the bible of banks. http://bankingwiththebeard.com/?cat=4

Mark W
08-13-2017, 06:28 AM
Look into zero x billiards kicking and banking. Its all just math simple and reliable

claymont
08-13-2017, 06:48 AM
Get a copy of the Beard's book. Its kinda like the bible of banks. http://bankingwiththebeard.com/?cat=4

If you're the type of person that can learn from reading and looking at diagrams, this book will help your game.

8ballr
08-13-2017, 06:52 AM
Look into zero x billiards kicking and banking. Its all just math simple and reliable

You should be able to just make the shot instead of relying on gimmicks. Relying on the Diamond system is like riding a bike with training wheels on...even professional cushion players don't rely on any diamond system...Chris Melling didn't need the diamond system to make his famous 4 railer. I never use them either. I really think the diamonds should be removed entirely. When my new Diamond Pro am arrives I am going to paint over them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKD7EdzMjAM

greyghost
08-13-2017, 06:56 AM
Let's back up a bit.

Deanoc....what method/s do you use already?


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garczar
08-13-2017, 07:06 AM
If you're the type of person that can learn from reading and looking at diagrams, this book will help your game.As opposed to what? Someone who CAN"T learn from reading and looking at diagrams? Believe me, I'm no Rhodes Scholar by any means but this book is super-easy to follow. I guess some people have trouble deciphering it and need a video to lead them along. For that Tor has some very good stuff as well. Hell, get both and you're good to go.

deanoc
08-13-2017, 07:28 AM
thanks for info
contact me if you have the inforation available

the zero and freddie's books

i would like to buy or borrow a copy

please Pm
or 214 477 7323
dean

onepocketron
08-13-2017, 07:49 AM
You should be able to just make the shot instead of relying on gimmicks. Relying on the Diamond system is like riding a bike with training wheels on...even professional cushion players don't rely on any diamond system...Chris Melling didn't need the diamond system to make his famous 4 railer. I never use them either. I really think the diamonds should be removed entirely. When my new Diamond Pro am arrives I am going to paint over them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKD7EdzMjAM

So the diamonds on the 3 cushion tables are there for looks right, not to be used? That is just too funny. :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

Texas Carom Club
08-13-2017, 07:51 AM
You should be able to just make the shot instead of relying on gimmicks. Relying on the Diamond system is like riding a bike with training wheels on...even professional cushion players don't rely on any diamond system...Chris Melling didn't need the diamond system to make his famous 4 railer. I never use them either. I really think the diamonds should be removed entirely. When my new Diamond Pro am arrives I am going to paint over them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKD7EdzMjAM


Yup you should never need a guide or practice

Or ever play

You should just pick up a house cue your first time ever and run out one handed blindfolded

Professional cushion player's! LMFAO

greyghost
08-13-2017, 07:51 AM
So the diamonds on the 3 cushion tables are there for looks right, not to be used? That is just too funny. :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:



I usually don't buy into a member is some other member but that totally sound like the fella who just got banned.

Paint over the sights. What jackassery


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8ballr
08-13-2017, 07:53 AM
So the diamonds on the 3 cushion tables are there for looks right, not to be used? That is just too funny. :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

Yup you should never need a guide or practice

Or ever play

You should just pick up a house cue your first time ever and run out one handed blindfolded

Professional cushion player's! LMFAO

They should be removed. If these "professionals" are relying on them then they really shouldn't be considered professionals. If you watch any 3 cushion you will see that most of these guys aren't using a diamond system, and could make the shots blindfolded they have done them so much. Place the cueball anywhere on the table and I can one stroke it 3 rails no problem...with my eyes closed.

So if you want my advice...do the jedi method.
https://youtu.be/X69NCLxwLEY?t=1m3s

greyghost
08-13-2017, 07:54 AM
They should be removed. If the player is relying on them then he really shouldn't be considered a professional.



Some thoughts are best kept to ourselves, Ed.


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Texas Carom Club
08-13-2017, 07:55 AM
. :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

That's what Nikos polychronopolous 's reaction was
And pretty much anyone else who ever played

Why are they letting him do this for so long

Why do we need to go over the same shit over and over every week now

onepocketron
08-13-2017, 08:05 AM
I have read the "Banking with the Beard" book and it is quite good, with a lot of diagrams and easy to understand explanations.

A simple method to use is angle into the rail = angle out on one rail banks providing you are not throwing the ball with english or hitting it hard. When looking at the table standing, figure the spot on the rail that will give you the same angle out as angle in and hit the shot with a little runing english.
Same as putting the cue ball in the corner pocket and hitting the middle diamond on foot/head rail ball should go into the opposite corner pocket (angle in=angle out).

garczar
08-13-2017, 08:09 AM
I usually don't buy into a member is some other member but that totally sound like the fella who just got banned.

Paint over the sights. What jackassery


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkKeebie, its the SAME guy. He'll be banned in a week or so only to be re-born as some other d^*kweed.

8ballr
08-13-2017, 08:11 AM
I have read the "Banking with the Beard" book and it is quite good, with a lot of diagrams and easy to understand explanations.

A simple method to use is angle into the rail = angle out on one rail banks providing you are not throwing the ball with english or hitting it hard. When looking at the table standing, figure the spot on the rail that will give you the same angle out as angle in and hit the shot with a little runing english.
Same as putting the cue ball in the corner pocket and hitting the middle diamond on foot/head rail ball should go into the opposite corner pocket (angle in=angle out).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGXAxRFVBY

Do any of you touch type? I do...70 wpm...but I could not write the keyboard layout on paper from memory...yet I NEVER look at the keyboard for anything...not even numbers or symbols. It is mapped in my brain...pure muscle memory. THAT is the level you need to get your game to.

btw before I learned how to touch type I topped out at about 30 wpm...that is what learning the diamond system will get for you playing pool. Now I am at 70 wpm, with more accuracy, and my average speed keeps increasing. Another thing is fatigue...you can't sit there racking your brain on every shot. Schmidt said his high runs come when he isn't thinking just shooting.

KenRobbins
08-13-2017, 09:00 AM
Start off shooting short easy cross corner banks. Object ball half way between corner pocket and 1st diamond, about a half ball off the rail. It's a half ball hit, tip above center. Don't over think it, just shoot it like that until you get the feel for it. Then create distance and so on. I made that my first quick drill for the day to show you. This was right after my first 2 cups of coffee, I still have the jitters. LOL https://youtu.be/Ezk_YInLxEw

onepocketron
08-13-2017, 10:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGXAxRFVBY

Do any of you touch type? I do...70 wpm...but I could not write the keyboard layout on paper from memory...yet I NEVER look at the keyboard for anything...not even numbers or symbols. It is mapped in my brain...pure muscle memory. THAT is the level you need to get your game to.

btw before I learned how to touch type I topped out at about 30 wpm...that is what learning the diamond system will get for you playing pool. Now I am at 70 wpm, with more accuracy, and my average speed keeps increasing. Another thing is fatigue...you can't sit there racking your brain on every shot. Schmidt said his high runs come when he isn't thinking just shooting.

I you have to "rack your brain" to see the angle in=angle out, you should pick up another sport, or get a pair of glasses that allow you to see clearly. :) Not everyone here has the brain power and muscle memory that you possess so we need all the help we can get from others. :) I touch type as well, and have for years, but it has little to do with banking.

Danimal
08-13-2017, 10:19 AM
I like the Beard's books a lot and they have great stories in them, however, I feel a lot of the info was written for a different era i.e., when different cloths were the norm.

Tor's Zero-X banking and kicking literally changed my banking game in a quick fashion. That, as well as Brumback's DVD, although JB's material is a little more spectacular, avant-garde stuff.

Big Perm
08-13-2017, 10:29 AM
after all these years I realize i just bank poorly

is there something that could actually help me
i tend to hit my banks short

also i only play one pocket so i need to bank pocket speed

The easy fix would be to simply add a little outside english.....if you are a little short, that will do the trick. But if you are playing only 1pocket, then it's likely you are more focused on cueball. If you are banking short, you are hitting more of the CB, which means more control and easier to pinpoint CB placement.

My two cents - mix up your games. Play some banks, 8-ball, 9-ball, etc....work on actually playing leave for banks as often as you can......and do the same for your one-pocket. IMHO, mixing up your games and banking like this can turn this into your strength. If you can get as confident making banks as you do short straight in shots, you don't have to play as much defense with the CB.

Good luck.

alstl
08-13-2017, 11:16 AM
after all these years I realize i just bank poorly

is there something that could actually help me
i tend to hit my banks short

also i only play one pocket so i need to bank pocket speed

Diamonds are a banker's best friend.

8ballr
08-13-2017, 11:21 AM
Diamonds are a banker's best friend.

Too many variables involved to rely on any system...same like aiming systems.

onepocketron
08-13-2017, 11:25 AM
It's like painting by numbers...not for professionals.

About 98% of us are NOT professionals, and don't PRETEND to be.:cool:

8ballr
08-13-2017, 11:29 AM
About 98% of us are NOT professionals, and don't PRETEND to be.:cool:

Do I make a living playing pool? Thankfully not with the way things are today. I will enter the US open and make it to the final table...where I will then play with a broom handle to make a point about the lack of sponsorships.

alstl
08-13-2017, 11:49 AM
Too many variables involved to rely on any system...same like aiming systems.

Since you are a genius how about posting a 14.1 video of yourself. I'd love to see your game. There is a guy on this site who claims to be an instructor and the only video of him revealed he can't run 3 balls.

Texas Carom Club
08-13-2017, 11:50 AM
Do I make a living playing pool? Thankfully not with the way things are today. I will enter the US open and make it to the final table...where I will then play with a broom handle to make a point about the lack of sponsorships.

I plan to make my debut at the U.S. open....where I will make it to the final table and draw the spot light on how poor the state of sponsorship is in pool today.


can we get rid of him now?

driven
08-13-2017, 03:46 PM
after all these years I realize i just bank poorly

is there something that could actually help me
i tend to hit my banks short

also i only play one pocket so i need to bank pocket speed

Here is a method you can try. You might already know it, but here goes anyway.

I don't bank very good, so take this with a few grains of salt. It may work better for you.

It is basically a mirror system.
aim your shot at an imaginary pocket 4.5 feet directly across from the pocket you want the ball to go in, you will be aiming to a point that far away from the pool table. Hit it with whatever spin you desire, as hard or soft as you like, but make sure to pocket the ball in the imaginary pocket.

If it is a full table length bank, you are now aiming at a point 9 feet away from the pool table. This method works with all bank shots.., but only as good as a person can imagine that imaginary pocket, and hit it with the exact speed and spin, etc.

Best of luck
steven

Tony_in_MD
08-13-2017, 04:54 PM
The most pool 8Ballr plays is on his keyboard with his 70 wpm skills.

I you have to "rack your brain" to see the angle in=angle out, you should pick up another sport, or get a pair of glasses that allow you to see clearly. :) Not everyone here has the brain power and muscle memory that you possess so we need all the help we can get from others. :) I touch type as well, and have for years, but it has little to do with banking.

8ballr
08-13-2017, 05:52 PM
I you have to "rack your brain" to see the angle in=angle out, you should pick up another sport, or get a pair of glasses that allow you to see clearly. :) Not everyone here has the brain power and muscle memory that you possess so we need all the help we can get from others. :) I touch type as well, and have for years, but it has little to do with banking.

That was in referrence to John schmidt...saying his high runs come when he is just shooting loose...not trying to be perfect. I can nail a 3 railer before you even start your plus 2 calculations or whatever system you are using lol.


The most pool 8Ballr plays is on his keyboard with his 70 wpm skills.

https://youtu.be/xNi04y7bfFc?t=16m39s

Let's see you guys do it...at least BRAGS backed it up.

"About a minute ago it was like an evening at the Apollo up in this mother****er, now all of a sudden it's quiet as a church."

Texas Carom Club
08-13-2017, 05:55 PM
But he didn't do it
6 ball?

greyghost
08-13-2017, 05:55 PM
https://youtu.be/xNi04y7bfFc?t=16m39s

Let's see you guys do it...at least brags backed it up. He made you all get pretty quiet pretty fast.



You mean run a fast rack?


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8ballr
08-13-2017, 06:07 PM
You mean run a fast rack?


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Let's see you guys run that rack faster than Luc Salvas...like Brags did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAmv0IANqUE

Texas Carom Club
08-13-2017, 06:08 PM
Bragg's didn't

8ballr
08-13-2017, 06:24 PM
Bragg's didn't

Ok sure...we'll ignore the fact he was robbed by a gc...with a shot that was pocket speed...on old cloth...and the fact that he had a go pro flopping on his head preventing him from getting down on the shot properly...fine.

Let's see one of you guys do it.

Texas Carom Club
08-13-2017, 06:25 PM
No one challenged him

And he still didn't do it

What , did the ball shoot itself ?
Your quite invested in the matter aren't you

greyghost
08-13-2017, 06:29 PM
Let's see you guys run that rack faster than Luc Salvas...like Brags did.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAmv0IANqUE



What's it pay


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garczar
08-13-2017, 06:31 PM
Here is a method you can try. You might already know it, but here goes anyway.

I don't bank very good, so take this with a few grains of salt. It may work better for you.

It is basically a mirror system.
aim your shot at an imaginary pocket 4.5 feet directly across from the pocket you want the ball to go in, you will be aiming to a point that far away from the pool table. Hit it with whatever spin you desire, as hard or soft as you like, but make sure to pocket the ball in the imaginary pocket.

If it is a full table length bank, you are now aiming at a point 9 feet away from the pool table. This method works with all bank shots.., but only as good as a person can imagine that imaginary pocket, and hit it with the exact speed and spin, etc.

Best of luck
stevenI used to play in a spot where the tables were 4.5ft apart both side-2-side and end-2-end. I hardly ever missed using the mirror system. Almost like cheating. Its really brutal when you start banking 'em in the side off the end rail.

Tony_in_MD
08-13-2017, 06:39 PM
8Ballr-Braggs,

A better use of our time is coming up with your next screen name after your current account gets the boot.

Could be entertaining.

:p


Ok sure...we'll ignore the fact he was robbed by a gc...with a shot that was pocket speed...on old cloth...and the fact that he had a go pro flopping on his head preventing him from getting down on the shot properly...fine.

Let's see one of you guys do it.

Straightpool_99
08-13-2017, 07:02 PM
after all these years I realize i just bank poorly

is there something that could actually help me
i tend to hit my banks short

also i only play one pocket so i need to bank pocket speed

Well...No easy and short answer but since your speed is fixed in this case (pocket speed), the two other variables are spin and aim.

If you are cutting your bank (cueball moving away from the direction of the pocket), try adding 1 tip of outside spin to whatever you are using now. I generally like to use outside on severe cutbanks, unless I can slam them in. IMO, if you have to use a lot of outside, it's easier if you DON'T draw the ball. I feel I get a cleaner hit and less swerve with center, just below or just above center ball hits.

If your cueball is moving in the direction of the pocket after contact (passover bank), try adding 1 tip of inside spin.

If you are dead straight, try adding 1/2 tip of outside.

Banking at pocket speed is the toughest way to make a bank IMO. Not only does the english throw the ball more, but the english on the object ball often wears off some before it hits the cushion, so where the object ball goes is very dependent on how far away the object ball is from the cushion. You have to adjust for this somehow, either with aim or spin. In the Beards book he recommends adjusting spin in 1 tip or aim in quarter ball increments. His book is highly recommended as he goes into great detail and shows reference shots to learn from. He also has multiple rail bank systems.

jackpot
08-13-2017, 08:22 PM
Deano,
Read how Mike Sigel banks.
jack

8ballr
08-13-2017, 08:38 PM
What's it pay


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I will leave.

garczar
08-14-2017, 06:07 AM
Deano,
Read how Mike Sigel banks.
jackWhere might one read how MS banks???

Drawback
08-14-2017, 06:25 AM
I'm with "Straightpool_99". His advice is spot on. I have Tor's CDs and Freddy's banking book and appreciate both very much.:)

ChicagoRJ
08-14-2017, 07:48 AM
You should be able to just make the shot instead of relying on gimmicks. Relying on the Diamond system is like riding a bike with training wheels on...even professional cushion players don't rely on any diamond system...Chris Melling didn't need the diamond system to make his famous 4 railer. I never use them either. I really think the diamonds should be removed entirely. When my new Diamond Pro am arrives I am going to paint over them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKD7EdzMjAM

You're not a very bright chap, are you?

chefjeff
08-14-2017, 08:54 AM
For quick and concise overview of banking issues, I found this old 1988 video with Jimmy Fusco demonstrating the hows of banking:

https://youtu.be/rOHsEuoUFwQ?t=2153

It's only a few minutes but really helped my game back then. I consider myself one of the better bankers around town, but I'm old so maybe that's what it took to get there?

Plus, it's a classic video, if you decide to watch some of the other pros from back then.

Jeff Livingston

8ballr
08-14-2017, 08:58 AM
For quick and concise overview of banking issues, I found this old 1988 video with Jimmy Fusco demonstrating the hows of banking:

https://youtu.be/rOHsEuoUFwQ?t=2153

It's only a few minutes but really helped my game back then. I consider myself one of the better bankers around town, but I'm old so maybe that's what it took to get there?

Plus, it's a classic video, if you decide to watch some of the other pros from back then.

Jeff Livingston

lol I didn't know Dracula played pool. Also, he is using his stick as a measuring tool...foul.

chefjeff
08-14-2017, 09:03 AM
lol I didn't know Dracula played pool. Also, he is using his stick as a measuring tool...foul.

Don't you just love his voice, though?

I watched that whole video I don't know how many times, 20 or 30 maybe? Mataya, et al, really put the flavor in it. It's a piece of pool history, for sure.




I'd like to add one more piece of advice for banking or kicking that I use that really lets me "see" the line:

I first look at the shot from the cueball's perspective, then I go to the object ball's perspective, then I go to the pocket's perspective to "see" how the OB will come off the rail and towards the pocket. Looking at such shots backwards is my secret, if you can call it that.

So, look at the shot from the pocket's viewpoint and find your spot from that perspective. It's worth a try, anyway.



Jeff Livingston

garczar
08-14-2017, 09:12 AM
You're not a very bright chap, are you?No kiddin. If he thinks top 3c players don't use systems then he's living in a dream-world. As far as diamonds/spots on the table are concerned, EVERY maker of 3c table installs them. You think they're there for looks? Don't think so. Kind of like ydg. markers on golf courses. Does everyone use them? No but they're available if you so desire.

8ballr
08-14-2017, 09:15 AM
No kiddin. If he thinks top 3c players don't use systems then he's living in a dream-world. As far as diamonds/spots on the table are concerned, EVERY maker of 3c table installs them. You think they're there for looks? Don't think so. Kind of like ydg. markers on golf courses. Does everyone use them? No but they're available if you so desire.

Anyone who uses the diamonds should not be considered a professional. It's like playing with 5" pockets...once you go pro there should be different standards.

ChicagoRJ
08-14-2017, 09:18 AM
lol I didn't know Dracula played pool. Also, he is using his stick as a measuring tool...foul.

Use my cue everyday in that manner, nobody ever called a foul, even in tournaments. Weird huh. So, basically, everyone else on the planet is wrong, and you, a nobody in pool is right. I don't bloody think so. LOL

Dude, do you even shoot pool, seriously?

8ballr
08-14-2017, 09:37 AM
Use my cue everyday in that manner, nobody ever called a foul, even in tournaments. Weird huh. So, basically, everyone else on the planet is wrong, and you, a nobody in pool is right. I don't bloody think so. LOL

Dude, do you even shoot pool, seriously?

Rules change. We have seen the banning the soft break..the pockets have been tightened...Earls finger extensions prohibited...give it time. They may restrict length of cue one day as well.

BC21
08-14-2017, 09:37 AM
Anyone who uses the diamonds should not be considered a professional. It's like playing with 5" pockets...once you go pro there should be different standards.

Do you want help with banking or not? Paint over your diamonds and never use your cue for any measurements or to help visualize the angles, then let us know when you finally become even a mediocre banker. That would be like somebody wanting to learn how to play the guitar, but insists on having all fret markers/inlays removed from neck. Lol.

8ballr
08-14-2017, 09:42 AM
Do you want help with banking or not? Paint over your diamonds and never use your cue for any measurements or to help visualize the angles, then let us know when you finally become even a mediocre banker. That would be like somebody wanting to learn how to play the guitar, but insists on having all fret markers/inlays removed from neck. Lol.

The diamonds are about as useful as letters on a keyboard for a touch typist...

DaveInSC
08-14-2017, 10:33 AM
I wish bank shots were my problem.

I'm back after a 20 year plus break, and ALL I can do is bank and break. My first night touching a cue since college I banked I believe 11 times and made 10 of them. I don't think I broke dry once.

All I could make was hanging balls other than bank shots. No matter what I did, I missed. Played through high school and college on bar tables, now I'm on these behemoth tables squinting to see down the long rail well enough to see the ball, let alone see the angles.

Younger guy on the table beside us was trying to get me to play for money. He was playing average, would have waxed me, and I'm sure wasn't playing his best game. I told him I'd play for whatever he wanted to play for, but it was gonna be bank shots only. He declined.

I don't know what is going on. I am just able to see the shot going in, and it does.

Now if I can just shoot "easier" shots, I won't feel like such a loser.

BC21
08-14-2017, 02:51 PM
The diamonds are about as useful as letters on a keyboard for a touch typist...

The position of the letters/keys on a keyboard are standard, stationary, usually querty format. Your fingers have a set pattern, each finger is assigned a specific key/keys. It's the same every time, regardless of the words you are typing. So it would be very simple for any average typist to type just as efficiently with no letters on the keys.

In no way is this comparable to the multitudes of diamond systems available for use on a pool table. Unlike a standard keyboard, there are endless shot angles for kicks and banks, no standard format/placement. If a keyboard could be large enough that every key held a word, not just a single letter, and the entire keyboard held every word in existence, literally thousands of keys, it would then be comparable to the limitless shots that diamonds make possible on a pool table. Imagine such a keyboard.....now imagine removing the words from those thousands of keys. It would take years of trial and error before the average typist could develope any proficiency at constructing a few hundred sentences.

A table with diamonds makes it possible for an average pool player to figure out countless shots. Without the diamonds it would take years of trial and error before even a basic amount of shots could become routine.

8ballr
08-14-2017, 02:55 PM
A table with diamonds makes it possible for an average pool player to figure out countless shots. Without the diamonds it would take years of trial and error before even a basic amount of shots could become routine.

Exactly...that's my point. Take off the training wheels lol.

Sweatin'
08-14-2017, 03:09 PM
I wish bank shots were my problem.

I'm back after a 20 year plus break, and ALL I can do is bank and break. My first night touching a cue since college I banked I believe 11 times and made 10 of them. I don't think I broke dry once.

All I could make was hanging balls other than bank shots. No matter what I did, I missed. Played through high school and college on bar tables, now I'm on these behemoth tables squinting to see down the long rail well enough to see the ball, let alone see the angles.

Younger guy on the table beside us was trying to get me to play for money. He was playing average, would have waxed me, and I'm sure wasn't playing his best game. I told him I'd play for whatever he wanted to play for, but it was gonna be bank shots only. He declined.

I don't know what is going on. I am just able to see the shot going in, and it does.

Now if I can just shoot "easier" shots, I won't feel like such a loser.

I feel your pain.

I'm having the exact same problem you're having, only with a layoff of closer to 40 years than 20.

BC21
08-14-2017, 05:05 PM
Exactly...that's my point. Take off the training wheels lol.

I hear ya. And I get it....you actually think that eventually a great player should be great enough to kick and bank any shot simply by rote. But there's an infinite number of shots, which makes this an impossible task. Even a well seasoned pro with 40 years of table time hasn't mastered every bank or multi-rail kick shot by heart, which is why they ALL utilize the diamonds when needed.

The better players, the ones that aren't looking for help with their banking or kicking, know how to use those diamonds. Sure we don't need em on many one-rail banks, as the angles are easily seen/recognized. But the diamonds serve as a great tool for kicks and odd banks and combos and cut shots. This tool is available for all players, yet very few understand how it works.

8ballr
08-14-2017, 05:08 PM
I hear ya. And I get it....you actually think that eventually a great player should be great enough to kick and bank any shot simply by rote. But there's an infinite number of shots, which makes this an impossible task. Even a well seasoned pro with 40 years of table time hasn't mastered every bank or multi-rail kick shot by heart, which is why they ALL utilize the diamonds when needed.

The better players, the ones that aren't looking for help with their banking or kicking, know how to use those diamonds. Sure we don't need em on many one-rail banks, as the angles are easily seen/recognized. But the diamonds serve as a great tool for kicks and odd banks and combos and cut shots. This tool is available for all players, yet very few understand how it works.

Knowing the shots is what separates the men from the boys...or the good from the great...the paint by numbers from the Picassos.

Texas Carom Club
08-14-2017, 05:15 PM
Knowing the shots is what separates the men from the boys...or the good from the great...the paint by numbers from the Picassos.

Wonder why this sort of bratty attitudes get into pool
Too many casuals playing 8ball thinking they're a big man playing on a baby table , playing baby games that the first shot of the game is based on luck
Hit it hard and HOPE something drops

Straightpool_99
08-14-2017, 06:28 PM
Wonder why this sort of bratty attitudes get into pool
Too many casuals playing 8ball thinking they're a big man playing on a baby table , playing baby games that the first shot of the game is based on luck
Hit it hard and HOPE something drops

Eh? You're lumping us all in with that guy? I've never heard this nonsense about the diamonds before from anyone but snooker players. What do snooker players know about playing pool cushions anyway? The flat nosed cushions of a snooker table give very predictable angles at all speeds, while pool and carom cushions are much more responsive and difficult. You STILL have people in the snooker world saying spin can't be transferred to the object ball, because in snooker it's close to a non-issue as far as banks are concerned! Even Steve Davis looked lost on the pool table on some occations when a bank had to be shortned etc...And Steve actually played pool a lot.

Idiots are all around us, and they don't all play pool...What kind of idiot thinks the diamond systems are so accurate it's cheating, anyway? The same table, even a heated carom table can bank differently on different days! A cushion may be different from the others in some way etc...Not to mention changes in humidity that can happen over the course of the day. I've never seen a perfect system anyway. Even if the conditions are stable, a system usually works perfectly only in a limited area, and needs substantial adjustments outside of this narrow region and then only with a certain speed and spin. Frequently a shots needs a different kind of speed and spin in order to achieve the desired result, and then you need to adjust anyway.

Diamonds are forever, and should remain forever on the rails of a proper US pool table.

Texas Carom Club
08-14-2017, 06:31 PM
Eh? You're lumping us all in with that guy?



Not at all, just lumping in him and all his kind
Player's that work to get better, that try
That seek to learn, are my kind of people, no matter what they play

8ballr
08-14-2017, 08:35 PM
Eh? You're lumping us all in with that guy? I've never heard this nonsense about the diamonds before from anyone but snooker players. What do snooker players know about playing pool cushions anyway? The flat nosed cushions of a snooker table give very predictable angles at all speeds, while pool and carom cushions are much more responsive and difficult. You STILL have people in the snooker world saying spin can't be transferred to the object ball, because in snooker it's close to a non-issue as far as banks are concerned! Even Steve Davis looked lost on the pool table on some occations when a bank had to be shortned etc...And Steve actually played pool a lot.

Idiots are all around us, and they don't all play pool...What kind of idiot thinks the diamond systems are so accurate it's cheating, anyway? The same table, even a heated carom table can bank differently on different days! A cushion may be different from the others in some way etc...Not to mention changes in humidity that can happen over the course of the day. I've never seen a perfect system anyway. Even if the conditions are stable, a system usually works perfectly only in a limited area, and needs substantial adjustments outside of this narrow region and then only with a certain speed and spin. Frequently a shots needs a different kind of speed and spin in order to achieve the desired result, and then you need to adjust anyway.

Diamonds are forever, and should remain forever on the rails of a proper US pool table.

Tell me something I don't know.

jay helfert
08-15-2017, 03:54 AM
after all these years I realize i just bank poorly

is there something that could actually help me
i tend to hit my banks short

also i only play one pocket so i need to bank pocket speed

First of all Dean, you need to have a different conversation with yourself than "I just bank poorly." That is a self fulfilling prophecy when you make a statement like that. How about, "I know I can learn to bank better!"

If you tend to bank balls short, practice aiming them a little bit longer and try to find the right angle for each bank by hitting it over and over until you do. Just like any other shot, a bank shot takes practice to find the range. There are no gimmes in banks, any shot can be missed.

One brief bit of advice, the softer you hit a bank the longer or wider it will go. The harder you hit it the more it will shorten up. Outside English opens up a bank and inside English tightens the angle. Freddie's books are the best!

P.S. I love to Bank! The first time I ever saw Eddie Taylor play he was giving Joe Burns (the best banker in Dayton) 9-6 and I couldn't believe it. I thought Joe was so damn good. They were playing for 50 a game, a big bet back then and Taylor ran nine and out the last two games before Joe quit. I couldn't believe what I had just seen and was mesmerized by Taylor's banking ability. I wanted to learn how to bank like that and Ed Tobolowsky (a damn good Bank Pool player) started coaching me off and on. It became my best game and I knocked off a few name players along the way. I kind of took them by surprise. :wink:

JAM
08-15-2017, 03:55 AM
Another tip on banking. Diamond tables bank short compared to GCs and other tables, so I've been told by those more knowledgeable than me. :p

garczar
08-15-2017, 05:05 AM
First of all Dean, you need to have a different conversation with yourself than "I just bank poorly." That is a self fulfilling prophecy when you make a statement like that. How about, "I know I can learn to bank better!"

If you tend to bank balls short, practice aiming them a little bit longer and try to find the right angle for each bank by hitting it over and over until you do. Just like any other shot, a bank shot takes practice to find the range. There are no gimmes in banks, any shot can be missed.

One brief bit of advice, the softer you hit a bank the longer or wider it will go. The harder you hit it the more it will shorten up. Outside English opens up a bank and inside English tightens the angle. Freddie's books are the best!

P.S. I love to Bank! The first time I ever saw Eddie Taylor play he was giving Joe Burns (the best banker in Dayton) 9-6 and I couldn't believe it. I thought Joe was so damn good. They were playing for 50 a game, a big bet back then and Taylor ran nine and out the last two games before Joe quit. I couldn't believe what I had just seen and was mesmerized by Taylor's banking ability. I wanted to learn how to bank like that and Ed Tobolowsky (a damn good Bank Pool player) started coaching me off and on. It became my best game and I knocked off a few name players along the way. I kind of took them by surprise. :wink:In '99 Eddie was in Tulsa as Jim McDermott's(Magoo's owner) guest of honor at the CamelTour event. One day ET came in while we were drinkin' coffee and bs'n. Now, Eddie is like 80-81 at the time and he proceeded to put on a DISPLAY of banking wizardry. We just sat there slackjawed as the banks went in from everywhere. I can't even imagine how good he played in his prime. Super guy as well, didn't know us at all but he sat in our bs session like he'd been there forever. True gentleman.

chefjeff
08-15-2017, 06:26 AM
Knowing the shots is what separates the men from the boys...or the good from the great...the paint by numbers from the Picassos.

Aren't you the same guy who just got banned last month?


Jeff Livingston

Texas Carom Club
08-15-2017, 06:31 AM
Aren't you the same guy who just got banned last month?


Jeff Livingston

yes indeed! proof is everywhere

deanoc
08-15-2017, 07:06 AM
thanks to all you guys who have offered advice on banking

i spent some time with eddie taylor ,not getting lessons
but he did show me several shots

he would set them up and fire them in

as far as i know,he was the best

it was never the time or place to get a lesson,i wish it had been

all i got to see was eddie shooting a few tough shots

when i was a kid i saw eddie ,wimpy and jersey red on a tv show

as the years went by ,i met them and enjoyed hearing the old stories

red tried to help me draw my ball better
but i was not a good student

now that i don't get to play high all the time
i have been wanting to improve

sounds backward to you?

as a young guy,i realized that good players didn't get much action
and poor players did

so i never worried about getting to be a great player
i setlled to match up and win n money

Red and Ediee both agreed that I was doing the right thing

It amazed them to see how much people would spot me and
how often I won

Now that the days of action are over,and i am too old to travel or stay out late
allt hat is left is to try and learn something and see if i can

again thanks for the advice from the guys who responded to my request

ceebee
08-15-2017, 11:22 AM
If you're the type of person that can learn from reading and looking at diagrams, this book will help your game.

Amen Ben... I mean Claymont. Try out Heath Manning's kicking & banking on YouTube

garczar
08-15-2017, 11:31 AM
Another tip on banking. Diamond tables bank short compared to GCs and other tables, so I've been told by those more knowledgeable than me. :pThe older red-label versions really banked short. The current models still play a little different than a GC but not like the older ones.