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GideonF
08-15-2017, 08:26 AM
So last night at the pool hall a scotch doubles action match is under way. One player makes his ball and as he stands up bumps the 8b, which drops straight in the pocket. Opinions between players and on the rail differ, with opinions being:

1. Loss of game.
2. Foul and loss of turn, but not loss of game. 8b is replaced.
3. No foul. 8b is replaced and shooter continues.

Players sort-of agree that they are playing BCA rules.

Opinion is solicited on social media, with mixed results.

Before scrolling down to see the answer, consider what you think the answer is, or should be?
















Answer: Under the rules of the BCA pool league (CSI), #3 is correct. No foul, ball is replaced and play continues.

From 1-33 http://www.playcsipool.com/uploads/7/3/5/9/7359673/official_rules_of_csi__170714_.pdf


6. If a single disturbed ball falls into a pocket with no effect on the outcome of a shot, your opponent has the restoration option. However, if the disturbed ball is designated by specific game rules as the game winning ball, it must be restored. If the game-winning ball is disturbed and falls into a pocket when there is an effect on the outcome of the shot, it is loss of game.
7. It is a foul if:
a. you disturb the cue ball;
b. you disturb more than one object ball;
c. a disturbed ball contacts any other ball;
d. you disturb a ball that is in motion.
Your opponent has no restoration option. If the game-winning ball is disturbed in conjunction with a violation of (a) through (d) and falls into a pocket, it is loss of game.

Interestingly, it is also specifically dealt with in VNEA, which says it is a loss of game (maybe at least in part because of the extra quarters required to get the 8b back on a coin-op). http://www.vnea.com/8-ball-rules.aspx

8. ACCIDENTALLY moving or touching any ball is not a foul unless: 1) the moved ball is the cue ball or 2) a moved ball makes contact with the cue ball or 3) a moved ball that is jumped off the table or pocketed or causes any ball to be jumped off the table or pocketed. (exception to #3: If the 8-ball is jumped off the table or pocketed it is loss of game if called by the opponent before the next shot is taken). Only opponent may replace the ball moved as closely as possible or leave it where it rests. If the shooter replaces the moved ball, it will be considered a foul.

--

Ultimately, the players agreed to spot the 8b and continue (although there was some b*tching!). The rail remained divided.

hang-the-9
08-15-2017, 10:11 AM
Seems pretty clear to me, 8 ball gets spotted where it was sitting before it got knocked in unless another ball would have had a good chance of traveling through where it was ,in which case it's a loss of game. "If the game-winning ball is disturbed in conjunction with a violation of (a) through (d) and falls into a pocket, it is loss of game." There were no other violations to the cueball foul only rules, so not a loss or a foul.

GideonF
08-15-2017, 01:40 PM
Seems pretty clear to me, 8 ball gets spotted where it was sitting before it got knocked in unless another ball would have had a good chance of traveling through where it was ,in which case it's a loss of game. "If the game-winning ball is disturbed in conjunction with a violation of (a) through (d) and falls into a pocket, it is loss of game." There were no other violations to the cueball foul only rules, so not a loss or a foul.

Thanks. I agree that the BCA pool league rule is clear and that was what the rule say.

It is interesting to me that a room full of pool players could not agree on what the rule is (until I looked it up and showed people). Also interesting to me that there was considerable debate (even after I found the rule) about what the rule ought to be.

So I posted it because (a) it was not widely known in the room and on social media; and (b) even after seeing the rule, there was debate about what the right rule should be.

fastone371
08-15-2017, 02:02 PM
That was an easy one. Pretty much every league and tournament up here is played with BCAPL rules. Cue ball only fouls as long as no more than 1 ball is disturbed and the disturbed ball does not affect the shot, IE: object ball or cue ball hits disturbed ball or OB or QB rules thru area where disturbed ball was.
I like this rule because it is the easiest way to avoid disagreements.

Poolhall60561
08-15-2017, 02:06 PM
I had this happen recently in a league I play in. I ruled correctly, with out being sure, that the 8 ball should be put back. Of course it was debated all night long with some hard feelings.

During league night I am often called on to make a ruling and I do the best I can and I do consult the other players. I let the players know that my rulings stand even if I'm wrong. I always research the rule and get back to the players.

Some players are obsessed with the rules and look to use them to their advantage. I know rules are important but sometimes they can drive me crazy.

hang-the-9
08-16-2017, 06:59 AM
Thanks. I agree that the BCA pool league rule is clear and that was what the rule say.

It is interesting to me that a room full of pool players could not agree on what the rule is (until I looked it up and showed people). Also interesting to me that there was considerable debate (even after I found the rule) about what the rule ought to be.

So I posted it because (a) it was not widely known in the room and on social media; and (b) even after seeing the rule, there was debate about what the right rule should be.

They may be pool players but they are not POOL PLAYERS hehe.
Many players that can actually play a bit are not very aware of any rules outside of maybe APA and bar rules. I find it funny that someone that can pretty much run out a rack of 9 ball with no issues does not know the rule about what to do on a miscue on a break or what an "open" table is in 8 ball or even what a legal shot is. Some things I personally dealt with is shooting a stripe in with a solid or vice versa on an open table (legal before your group is established) or making a ball then scratching and explaining that it's the first "legal" shot that establishes your group. If you make a solid and scratch, you are not solids. Then of course there is the "call every ball and rail contact on a shot" people and the play safe only by "accident" people. You try explaining the real rules to them and you are in for some fun!

gregcantrall
08-16-2017, 02:50 PM
I had this happen recently in a league I play in. I ruled correctly, with out being sure, that the 8 ball should be put back. Of course it was debated all night long with some hard feelings.

During league night I am often called on to make a ruling and I do the best I can and I do consult the other players. I let the players know that my rulings stand even if I'm wrong. I always research the rule and get back to the players.

Some players are obsessed with the rules and look to use them to their advantage. I know rules are important but sometimes they can drive me crazy. I prefer the spirit of the rule to the letter . However can't fault a person for going by the letter. If there is a difference it is the fault of the rule makers, not the user.