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View Full Version : Do you think RICH cues are nice playing cues, and are they worth much money?


justinb386
10-01-2017, 03:49 AM
I recently seen a RICH cue (at a local pawn shop), that looks a lot like the one in Post #55 of this thread (but without the Ostrich Skin wrap, with a regular linen wrap on it, that looked to have probably been the original wrap), http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=165157&page=4.

The price on the cue was $200, and it came with 1 shaft (that looked a lot like the shaft in Post #55 too).

Just curious if that is a fair price for a cue similar to the one in Post #55?

Do many players use RICH cues these days, or are they maybe collectors items?

Do you think they are decent playing cues?

Thanks for any thoughts about this.

I just thought the cue looked really interesting, but maybe the price on it was a little too high? I do not know how much these cues are worth.

Thanks.

RichSchultz
10-01-2017, 04:00 AM
Haven't heard of them but looking forward to the responses.

Heating up the popcorn.

justinb386
10-01-2017, 04:14 AM
Haven't heard of them but looking forward to the responses.

Heating up the popcorn.

Lol, the popcorn comment was funny.

mikemosconi
10-01-2017, 05:00 AM
Used to visit Abe Rich at Star cues in Miami in early 1990's His cues played OK, he was sort of known in Fl. for his sneaky pete's Eccentric older guy by then, was sort of losing his marbles, he really could not fulfill any custom order cues any longer, wrote down my specs, but repeated calls turned out that he was just going thru cue making motions at that point- kind of sad to see this old school cuemaker fade away like that. I think that any decent shape Rich cue today from either of the Rich cue making family members is a sort of billiard treasure of days gone by and should play half way decent - not a Bushka though.

bbb
10-01-2017, 06:10 AM
price is right and decent players
mine from the late 1980's still straight

justinb386
10-01-2017, 06:30 AM
price is right and decent players
mine from the late 1980's still straight

Thanks. Can you maybe compare the hit to any other cues out there? Or, does it have its own unique type of hit (referring to the RICH cue that you have)? Thanks.

PhilosopherKing
10-01-2017, 06:33 AM
How do you know it's a Rich? If it's a logo, it's probably not what you think it is.

On a different note, I'd play off the wall before I'd support the overwhelming majority of pawn shops.

ideologist
10-01-2017, 07:18 AM
$200 is a little high for this cue that you pictured. Also, who knows how it has been treated? It may be ready to fall apart.

I have a pre-logo Meucci that you can buy for a fair price if you want a known quality player. Real ebony points, real veneers, real linen wrap.

GoldCrown
10-01-2017, 08:21 AM
Only worth it if you want one. If you do not get it you are not missing anything.

Cornerman
10-01-2017, 08:41 AM
I recently seen a RICH cue (at a local pawn shop), that looks a lot like the one in Post #55 of this thread (but without the Ostrich Skin wrap, with a regular linen wrap on it, that looked to have probably been the original wrap), http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=165157&page=4.

The price on the cue was $200, and it came with 1 shaft (that looked a lot like the shaft in Post #55 too).

Just curious if that is a fair price for a cue similar to the one in Post #55?

Do many players use RICH cues these days, or are they maybe collectors items?

Do you think they are decent playing cues?

Thanks for any thoughts about this.

I just thought the cue looked really interesting, but maybe the price on it was a little too high? I do not know how much these cues are worth.

Thanks.The link you provided discusses Star Cues by Abe Rich from Miami, not RICH cues by Saul Rich in the Bowery.

Before anyone can answer, you better be sure which one you're really talking about.

Personally, for $200 from Abe Rich, and a legit Titlist conversion (Abe didn't make points), I'd consider buying it.


Freddie

Moet.1977
10-01-2017, 08:49 AM
I agree with Cornerman if it's really one of his tilist conversions it's worth it especially if your going to play with it.

Plus pawn shop probably take good bite less, just depends on how long it's been sitting their.

ideologist
10-01-2017, 10:08 AM
The link you provided discusses Star Cues by Abe Rich from Miami, not RICH cues by Saul Rich in the Bowery.

Before anyone can answer, you better be sure which one you're really talking about.

Personally, for $200 from Abe Rich, and a legit Titlist conversion (Abe didn't make points), I'd consider buying it.


Freddie

That's an import blank, not a Titlist

mjkeil62
10-01-2017, 10:28 AM
That's an import blank, not a Titlist



Yep kind of like the one Abe Rich cue I have that is an import blank. The glue lines are terrible on mine. But it is dead straight and shoots terrific, turned into my every day player. This cue just has a great balance and feel when hitting the cue ball. I have several other of Abe's cues that hit alright but nothing special. The balance seems good on them but the feel isn't there. Part of it is the tips on them. Now to answer the question on if it is worth $200....if it shoots like mine yes.....if.

Chopdoc
10-01-2017, 10:59 AM
Many cues identified as Abe cues are not.

But if you find an Abe cue with veneered points for $200, buy it. They are rare. He did not make the splice.

If you find an Abe Titlist conversion buy it. They are even more rare.

The last time I saw an Abe Titlist I believe it sold for around $500, including shipping.

I have no idea what you found in the Pawn shop. B so I am not saying to buy it.

How do they play? Generally well enough. A bit inconsustent, so don't bother asking what brand they play like.

I have several Abe cures.

Buy one if you want one. I wouldn't be looking for one for a player though.
.

Chopdoc
10-01-2017, 11:25 AM
$200 is a little high for this cue that you pictured. Also, who knows how it has been treated? It may be ready to fall apart.

I have a pre-logo Meucci that you can buy for a fair price if you want a known quality player. Real ebony points, real veneers, real linen wrap.

If you sell that Meucci to him I will throw myself in traffic.

Then crawl naked through broken glass to get it back....

.

JoeyInCali
10-01-2017, 11:30 AM
You won't like it. You wouldn't keep it for a week.

Ched
10-01-2017, 12:43 PM
Hey Justin. You seem to have "hands on" a great many cues and it begs a question in my mind. Is there any cue that you really liked that you regret flipping .. or one you did keep maybe? Just wondering what you yourself like in a cue, and what brand and specs you consider the best for yourself and your style of shooting.

justinb386
10-01-2017, 11:47 PM
How do you know it's a Rich? If it's a logo, it's probably not what you think it is.

On a different note, I'd play off the wall before I'd support the overwhelming majority of pawn shops.

It says RICH (in capital letters) at the bottom of the butt (near the rubber bumper), and the shaft has that very unique looking long pilot in the shaft. I just thought it was really cool looking, with the points and veneers. It looked very interesting (I thought). Looked very old (maybe from the 70's?).

justinb386
10-01-2017, 11:56 PM
The link you provided discusses Star Cues by Abe Rich from Miami, not RICH cues by Saul Rich in the Bowery.

Before anyone can answer, you better be sure which one you're really talking about.

Personally, for $200 from Abe Rich, and a legit Titlist conversion (Abe didn't make points), I'd consider buying it.


Freddie

Yeah, I do not know anything about this stuff (the history of Star cues or RICH cues, I thought they were from the same cue maker). I just thought it looked similar to that cue in post #55 of that thread, and it had that long wooden pilot (wood over metal pilot) in the shaft (that looked very similar too). "RICH" was inlaid in the butt below the wrap. I wish I would have taken a picture. The pawn shop is located in downtown Winston Salem, and I am in Greensboro. I might go check it out again, if it is still there.

justinb386
10-02-2017, 12:06 AM
Many cues identified as Abe cues are not.

But if you find an Abe cue with veneered points for $200, buy it. They are rare. He did not make the splice.

If you find an Abe Titlist conversion buy it. They are even more rare.

The last time I saw an Abe Titlist I believe it sold for around $500, including shipping.

I have no idea what you found in the Pawn shop. B so I am not saying to buy it.

How do they play? Generally well enough. A bit inconsustent, so don't bother asking what brand they play like.

I have several Abe cures.

Buy one if you want one. I wouldn't be looking for one for a player though.
.

Thanks for the info. I was just curious. I have no idea if it is a titlelist what. Can't remember if it had 3 points, or 4. Kind of reminded me of one of those old 3 point veneered Viking cues (from the 70's?). I forgot to count the points though. I should have taken a picture of the cue.

justinb386
10-02-2017, 12:07 AM
If you sell that Meucci to him I will throw myself in traffic.

Then crawl naked through broken glass to get it back....

.

Lol, that was hilarious. Very funny.

justinb386
10-02-2017, 12:26 AM
Hey Justin. You seem to have "hands on" a great many cues and it begs a question in my mind. Is there any cue that you really liked that you regret flipping .. or one you did keep maybe? Just wondering what you yourself like in a cue, and what brand and specs you consider the best for yourself and your style of shooting.

I understand that many players say that the joint has nothing (or very little) to do with the hit of a cue, but some of the cues that I really loved in the past were Radial pin cues.

This will be very laughable to many of you, but the best hitting cue I ever had was a Southeast cue (made by Nat Green). That cue felt perfect for me. I felt a level of confidence with that cue that I never felt with any other cue. I had a few other Southeast cues after that, and they felt completely different (they hit nice, but just not the same as the one that I really loved).

I have had a few Helmstetter cues that I really loved (that had a white joint on them, with maybe a 5/16x18 joint pin?). Not sure, but it was a flat faced joint pin I think. Anyways, I really loved the Helmstetter cues that I had in the past (may have been from the 86 Series). They had an amazing feel, balance, and hit to them. Loved everything about them. Sad that they are seemingly so rare, and so expensive when they do come up for sale online.

I had a JCC (Jackson) cue when I was a kid (back in the 90's). I am pretty sure that it also had something like a flat faced 5/16x18 flat faced joint, with a white phenolic joint collar (similar to the Helmstetter cues that I loved so much). Had that cue for years (by far the longest that I ever owned any cue), and really loved it. I think my game was at its highest level back in those days, with that Jackson cue. I won a lot of tournaments with that cue, and beat a lot of very good players.

I did have a Lucasi Hybrid shaft (attached to a Jim Baxter conversion sneaky style cue, from a Mark Bear blank, I think it was) for a short time though, and really loved it. That is 1 other cue that I really regret selling.

I do not know about specs. They have been all over the place through the years. I always thought I loved a very long taper the most, but a few cues I really liked (like the Lucasi Hybrid shaft) had kind of a stiff taper to the shaft, and I really loved it. I think it helped me get more control on the cue ball.

PhilosopherKing
10-02-2017, 04:03 AM
Yeah, I do not know anything about this stuff (the history of Star cues or RICH cues, I thought they were from the same cue maker). I just thought it looked similar to that cue in post #55 of that thread, and it had that long wooden pilot (wood over metal pilot) in the shaft (that looked very similar too). "RICH" was inlaid in the butt below the wrap. I wish I would have taken a picture. The pawn shop is located in downtown Winston Salem, and I am in Greensboro. I might go check it out again, if it is still there.
Not made by Abe Rich

Chopdoc
10-02-2017, 04:42 AM
Yeah, I do not know anything about this stuff (the history of Star cues or RICH cues, I thought they were from the same cue maker). I just thought it looked similar to that cue in post #55 of that thread, and it had that long wooden pilot (wood over metal pilot) in the shaft (that looked very similar too). "RICH" was inlaid in the butt below the wrap. I wish I would have taken a picture. The pawn shop is located in downtown Winston Salem, and I am in Greensboro. I might go check it out again, if it is still there.

Inlaid?

I doubt it. Likely a decal on delrin with a finish over it. I know the cues.

At any rate, not an Abe cue.

Probably not worth the $200...or if it is that would be the maximum retail on it.

.

justinb386
10-02-2017, 05:23 AM
Inlaid?

I doubt it. Likely a decal on delrin with a finish over it. I know the cues.

At any rate, not an Abe cue.

Probably not worth the $200...or if it is that would be the maximum retail on it.

.

Okay, thanks for the info. So, RICH cues are not worth as much as the Star cues made by Abe Rich? Curious as to why they are not worth as much?

PhilosopherKing
10-02-2017, 08:51 AM
Okay, thanks for the info. So, RICH cues are not worth as much as the Star cues made by Abe Rich? Curious as to why they are not worth as much?

Why aren't diamond-shaped rocks worth as much as diamonds?

mjkeil62
10-02-2017, 09:14 AM
It says RICH (in capital letters) at the bottom of the butt (near the rubber bumper), and the shaft has that very unique looking long pilot in the shaft. I just thought it was really cool looking, with the points and veneers. It looked very interesting (I thought). Looked very old (maybe from the 70's?).

Hey Justin. Like they have said this isn't one of Abe Rich's cues. It is one from his uncle's company where Abe did work before he moved to Florida and stared up his own business with his brother. His uncle's cues sometimes have a Rich Q sticker on them also. Since Abe worked for them his cues are very similar and do tend to get confused with his uncle's cues.

Here is info from Blue Book of Pool Cues:
Maker of pool cues from 1912 to 1982 in Freeport, New York.
The Rich Cue Company was founded in 1912 in Freeport, New York. The company made many thousands of cues over seven decades. Saul Rich operated the family business in its heyday with the assistance of two of his relatives who were both talented cuemakers in their own right: his uncle, Isadore Rutzisky, and cousin, Abe Rich. It remained a family business until Saul sold the company to Ike Algaze in 1970. Ike then ran the business until he sold it to Imperial Billiards in the mid-1970s. In 1982, Imperial ceased production of Rich cues. Most Rich cues are unmarked, but those with "Rich Q" under a clear plastic window are easy to identify. Some Rich cues from the 1960s bear a strong resemblance to those made by Doc Fry which were being made at the same time from similar materials such as marbled plastic rings in the butt sleeve. If you have a Rich cue that needs further identification or repair, contact Mark Kulungian at Pool Table Magic, listed in the Buy, Sell, Trade Index, or Rubino Cues, listed in the Trademark Index.

Chopdoc
10-02-2017, 09:59 AM
Okay, thanks for the info. So, RICH cues are not worth as much as the Star cues made by Abe Rich? Curious as to why they are not worth as much?

Perceived value involves many factors.

These cues are actually more rare than Abe's, and they aren't of any substantially different quality really.

In fact, you can still get "new" Abe cues as his nephew is releasing them to the market slowly.. 2 or 3 or 4 at a time on Ebay. The way I hear it they found many finished cues in his shop after he died, under his wood I think.

Abe is a legend. That has something to do with it. Also he is seen as more of a "custom" maker whereas RICH, Rich Q, and the other various brands out of the New York shop are seen more as production cues. In some cases they are nearly identical in fact.

I do have one of the RICH cues like you spoke of, with points and veneers. I didn't pay much for it. I wanted an example of one, that's why I waited for a decent deal on one. I think I paid about $70 for it in excellent condition. I think fair market value is about double that...max maybe $200 as I said about the cue you described.

Abe was a Holocaust survivor. He was an enigma. He was a real old time wood turner. Some here knew him or at least met him and have nothing but good things to say and cool stories about him. IMHO Abe's cues will always be worth more than other Rich cues. I think he earned that with many years of thoughtful personal dedication to his craft.

.

justinb386
10-02-2017, 10:20 AM
Perceived value involves many factors.

These cues are actually more rare than Abe's, and they aren't of any substantially different quality really.

In fact, you can still get "new" Abe cues as his nephew is releasing them to the market slowly.. 2 or 3 or 4 at a time on Ebay. The way I hear it they found many finished cues in his shop after he died, under his wood I think.

Abe is a legend. That has something to do with it. Also he is seen as more of a "custom" maker whereas RICH, Rich Q, and the other various brands out of the New York shop are seen more as production cues. In some cases they are nearly identical in fact.

I do have one of the RICH cues like you spoke of, with points and veneers. I didn't pay much for it. I wanted an example of one, that's why I waited for a decent deal on one. I think I paid about $70 for it in excellent condition. I think fair market value is about double that...max maybe $200 as I said about the cue you described.

Abe was a Holocaust survivor. He was an enigma. He was a real old time wood turner. Some here knew him or at least met him and have nothing but good things to say and cool stories about him. IMHO Abe's cues will always be worth more than other Rich cues. I think he earned that with many years of thoughtful personal dedication to his craft.

.

Thanks a lot for that info. I completely understand now.

justinb386
10-02-2017, 10:21 AM
Hey Justin. Like they have said this isn't one of Abe Rich's cues. It is one from his uncle's company where Abe did work before he moved to Florida and stared up his own business with his brother. His uncle's cues sometimes have a Rich Q sticker on them also. Since Abe worked for them his cues are very similar and do tend to get confused with his uncle's cues.

Here is info from Blue Book of Pool Cues:
Maker of pool cues from 1912 to 1982 in Freeport, New York.
The Rich Cue Company was founded in 1912 in Freeport, New York. The company made many thousands of cues over seven decades. Saul Rich operated the family business in its heyday with the assistance of two of his relatives who were both talented cuemakers in their own right: his uncle, Isadore Rutzisky, and cousin, Abe Rich. It remained a family business until Saul sold the company to Ike Algaze in 1970. Ike then ran the business until he sold it to Imperial Billiards in the mid-1970s. In 1982, Imperial ceased production of Rich cues. Most Rich cues are unmarked, but those with "Rich Q" under a clear plastic window are easy to identify. Some Rich cues from the 1960s bear a strong resemblance to those made by Doc Fry which were being made at the same time from similar materials such as marbled plastic rings in the butt sleeve. If you have a Rich cue that needs further identification or repair, contact Mark Kulungian at Pool Table Magic, listed in the Buy, Sell, Trade Index, or Rubino Cues, listed in the Trademark Index.

Thanks a lot for that info. Very interesting.

TATE
10-02-2017, 08:46 PM
This thread should explain it....http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=443219

The ones with block letters were made in the 1970's and 1980's and were imports made after the company was sold to Imperial in Taiwan. It's basically an inexpensive production import cue...

Chopdoc
10-02-2017, 09:44 PM
This thread should explain it....http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=443219

The ones with block letters were made in the 1970's and 1980's and were imports made after the company was sold to Imperial in Taiwan. It's basically an inexpensive production import cue...

Thanks. I was looking for that thread. :thumbup:


.

justinb386
10-03-2017, 02:48 AM
This thread should explain it....http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=443219

The ones with block letters were made in the 1970's and 1980's and were imports made after the company was sold to Imperial in Taiwan. It's basically an inexpensive production import cue...

Thanks. The cue that I seen in the pawn shop looks like the 15th cue from the left (out of the 20 cues pictures, in that line of cues) in your Post #12. Very cool looking cues, I think. I guess the quality may not be that good though, if they were imported from Taiwan.

PhilosopherKing
10-03-2017, 10:24 AM
not for nothing, but there's probably greater variation between the two cues you say it looks like than there is between two random human faces.