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jokrswylde
10-08-2017, 03:55 PM
Playing 8 ball tommorrow... what do i expect?

Johnny Rosato
10-08-2017, 04:07 PM
Captaining my first ever APA team in first APA match...any advice? - Today, 05:55 PM

My advice ~ try to win!

dnixon
10-08-2017, 04:13 PM
Have fun don't take it so serious !

De420MadHatter
10-08-2017, 04:28 PM
Quit now ;)

whammo57
10-08-2017, 04:33 PM
post wisely..............

Kim

skankhammer
10-08-2017, 05:11 PM
Pick your therapist now, your gonna need one.

deadnutz
10-08-2017, 05:19 PM
Put up first. It gives you a big advantage at the end of the match. You put up first 1,3,5 but by the time match 4 rolls around you will be able to narrow down who they will play 5th by their numbers. Hope that makes sense. You are basically controlling matchups 2,4, and 5. You'd be surprised how many matches are decided by match 5.

justadub
10-08-2017, 05:21 PM
Remember that it's supposed to be fun. You CAN take it seriously AND have fun. Some cannot manage both, and that's where the drama can happen.

I enjoy my league experience, I hope you do, too. Good luck!

Skippy27
10-08-2017, 05:31 PM
Put up first.

I typically do just the opposite so that I get 3 chances to putb who i want against who they put up.

Though, there is occasion when I win the flip that I decide to put up first for one reason or another.

jokrswylde
10-08-2017, 05:35 PM
Ok, so none of the guys on my team have ever played apa, so if I'm correct, we will all be 4's. Now, i regularly play a guy (at my house) on another team who is a five. He has never beat me (on my table). I estimate i play 2 balls better than him... again on my table. Everyone else on my team is probably a 4 if i am judging by how they play at my house.

I say all this to emphasize that i have no idea about strategy as far as match -up goes. Any advice as far as strongest to weakest players and when to play them

Ched
10-08-2017, 05:37 PM
talk to the team members and get feedback. Both on players on the other teams, and what they want out of the experience.

Drop a group text the morning of match letting them know where and who you're playing.

Be open to input from others who might have more experience - even on other teams.

Be a gracious winner - don't let the losses bother you.

Be dependable.

If you have tools (tip pics, scuffers, etc.) - offer to share.

Pick up a red-dot for your home table.

Enjoy yourself.

RichSchultz
10-08-2017, 05:44 PM
Like people said, have fun. Don't be overbearing with the time out calling...it's ok to let people make their own decisions and learn from mistakes.

justadub
10-08-2017, 05:46 PM
Ok, so none of the guys on my team habe ever played apa, so if I'm correct, we will all be 4's. Now, i regularly play a guy (at my house) on another team who is a five. He has never beat me (on my table). I estimate i play 2 balls better than him... again on my table. Everyone else on my team is probably a 4 if i am judging by how they play at my house.

I say all this to emphasize that i have no idea about strategy as fast as up goes. Any advice as far as strongest to weakest players and when to play them

To really answer that would go into all sorts of depths of discussion and debate :p

My philosophy is to try and match up as evenly as possible while working within the 23- rule restrictions. At least during the regular season, playoffs are a whole other discussion. My feeling is that we're there for fun and for competition.

There are many who really dig into the strategy, and will "throw off", playing lower Skill players against the higher skill players on the other team. I'm not a fan of this for two reasons.....first, no "good" player wants to beat the brains in of a beginner, and have to win 6 or 7 games against someone who is a beginner. Second, and more important to me, is it's no fun for a beginner to have to absorb those beatings. Where is the fun in shooting once or twice, against someone you have no chance against, in order to make the captains strategy of throwing off work? How are they gonna learn, and how are they gonna have any fun and want to keep playing....

This is a debate that I'll never win, and I expect a lot of push back following this post. It's how I feel.

You will see lots of different strategies as you go forward. No real way to tell you all of them, best to do what you think is best, and run with it. Good luck!

CCCue
10-08-2017, 05:48 PM
Put up first. It gives you a big advantage at the end of the match. You put up first 1,3,5 but by the time match 4 rolls around you will be able to narrow down who they will play 5th by their numbers. Hope that makes sense. You are basically controlling matchups 2,4, and 5. You'd be surprised how many matches are decided by match 5.

Help me understand. It would seem by making them put up first you control 1 3 and 5.

Doing the way you described you have to guess who they will put up against your player.

Not saying youíre wrong, just donít get it.

CCCue
10-08-2017, 05:52 PM
Get to know your players strengths and play to them.

If a player is in the zone and playing well leave them alone and don’t scream timeout when they are confidently setting up for next shot.

Coach them to their strength and game not yours.

justadub
10-08-2017, 06:00 PM
Get to know your players strengths and play to them.

If a player is in the zone and playing well leave them alone and donít scream timeout when they are confidently setting up for next shot.

Coach them to their strength and game not yours.

^^^ this. :thumbup:

deadnutz
10-08-2017, 06:23 PM
Help me understand. It would seem by making them put up first you control 1 3 and 5.

Doing the way you described you have to guess who they will put up against your player.

Not saying youíre wrong, just donít get it.

There is a number limit on the amount of handicap you can use in a given night. I don't play apa anymore but if I recall correctly the limit is 21...... so if you put up first I will give you an example.
Match 1: You put up a 4 and they match with a 4
Match 2: They put up a 5 you match with a 5
Match 3 you put up a 3 and they put up a 3
Match 4 they put up a 6...... you know they have 3 points left to work with in set 5..... if they have a 3,5, and 6 left to possibly play guess who's going to be playing set 5??? (The only one who can play is the 3) Understand now? Also, if they throw a 6 in set 4 and you have a 2 and a 4 left but are already winning the match 2-1 it might be in your best interest to feed your 2 to the 6 and let your 4 play their 3....... (if their 6 is a true 6 they should handle your 2 or 4 fairly easily) Do you like your 4 playing the other teams 3 in match 5 or do you like your 2 playing their 3????
Ultimately you are controlling matches 2,4, and 5....... controlling match 5 is often time what makes your team a winner or loser for the night. Might sound crazy but it works. Won our trip to TAP Nationals with this strategy and it makes your team a winner more often than not.

CCCue
10-08-2017, 06:33 PM
Thanks. Definitely something to consider.

ctyhntr
10-08-2017, 07:53 PM
If this is your first match, I suggest you relax and enjoy. When I was co-captain, the other team captains helped me with scoring and how to collect and assess money.

Matching up even is a common APA strategy. If you're looking to be more competitive and win that trip to APA Nationals, check out "How to be a winning APA Captain"

Additional
If you play in different rooms, invest in a moosehead bridge, bring extra chalk, and pen & correction tape for the scoresheet. YMMV, some leagues offer bonus points for correctly filling the scoresheets and submitting on time.
If you have bad eyes like mine, a lighted pocket magnifier goes a long way in a dimly lit room.

lorider
10-08-2017, 09:45 PM
Several have given you good advice. I do have a few things to add though.

Since your whole team is new to apa from what I understand you all will start out as 4's . Ladies....if you have any will start as 3's. With 5-4's playing you will have no problem meeting the 23 handicap limit. Now dont be alarmed if several are raised after the first week. The handicaps can fluctuate wildly the first few weeks.

You stated most of them have played at your house so you have an idea how they play. put your strongest again their strongest if you can each round. 2 reasons for that . The first is obvious . Your strongest has a better chance of beating their strongest. The second reason is if you put your strongest against their weakest he is definitely going up to a 5 the next week and you don't want that. Some people may take what I just typed the wrong way so let mw clarify. Just because your best player starts as a 4 and beats the crap out of an established 3 does not mean your player is capable of playing even with established 5's which is where he will wind up after beating their worst player. Sure he will go back down eventually of he is not really a s/l 5 but in the meantime it messes up your team handicap ..

A.couple mentioned coaching. All 4's and above are allowed one time out per rack. As a rule I never call time outs during regular session...only during playoffs or higher when its time to get serious. 2 things you need to be aware of is you do decide to call time outs. .number 1 rule... Use them wisely. 2. Learn how your players handle time outs ....some hate to have a time out called for all kinds of reasons.

Use your first session as a learning experience and dont ne afraid to ask the opposing captain for advice. Most are very helpful and accommodating to new teams.

You will however run into the occasional asshat that will complain about one of your players being a 4 regardless if he is new to apa. Don't worry about it.

And above all ...like others said ...just have fun .

Celophanewrap
10-08-2017, 10:04 PM
Captain advice?
Collect everyone’s fee before they leave. Whatever you’re missing falls to you. It’s the
shits when you have to foot the whole bill. Don’t be an asshole, but don’t be shy about it.

Remember, it’s now about the team. - Be smart when you match up. A 3-0 is better than
a 2-1 or a 1-2 so your better players may need to play matches against they’d rather not
play. As captain you need to serve the team, not someone’s ego.

Don’t let yourself fall into the role of self appointed rule book or policeman. You have to
be responsible for your team. What they do reflects on you. As captain anything they do
will likely be blamed on you. Be captain, but make your guys own their actions, they’re
adults, remind them of that every so often.

You don’t always have to be the coach. In spite of being captain you won’t always be the
best coach for everyone, try not to be territorial.

Pick the right co-captain. Someone you trust and can count on to be there every week

Let your team know you have their back. Even if you think they’re wrong. You can discuss that later.
They need to know you’re on their side. Don’t be afraid to say so.

Sandbagging? That’s the other guys problem, not yours. Play honest and the S/L’s will take care of themselves

Don’t drink too much and have a good time. It’s a game, it’s supposed to be fun.

Michael S
10-09-2017, 05:51 AM
1. First and foremost! Have fun with your teammates.
2. Try to match up your players with the opponents. This often means you need to know your opponents.
3. If you win celebrate quietly. If you lose, chalk it off as a lesson for everyone.
4. Do your best!
5. Make sure everyone has paid and mark the score sheet accordingly.
6. And last but not least, don't go over the point limit!!

I've captained multiple teams over the years...

justadub
10-09-2017, 06:18 AM
Captain advice?
Collect everyoneís fee before they leave. Whatever youíre missing falls to you. Itís the
shits when you have to foot the whole bill. Donít be an asshole, but donít be shy about it.

Remember, itís now about the team. - Be smart when you match up. A 3-0 is better than
a 2-1 or a 1-2 so your better players may need to play matches against theyíd rather not
play. As captain you need to serve the team, not someoneís ego.

Donít let yourself fall into the role of self appointed rule book or policeman. You have to
be responsible for your team. What they do reflects on you. As captain anything they do
will likely be blamed on you. Be captain, but make your guys own their actions, theyíre
adults, remind them of that every so often.

You donít always have to be the coach. In spite of being captain you wonít always be the
best coach for everyone, try not to be territorial.

Pick the right co-captain. Someone you trust and can count on to be there every week

Let your team know you have their back. Even if you think theyíre wrong. You can discuss that later.
They need to know youíre on their side. Donít be afraid to say so.

Sandbagging? Thatís the other guys problem, not yours. Play honest and the S/Lís will take care of themselves

Donít drink too much and have a good time. Itís a game, itís supposed to be fun.

^^^ This too........ :p

justadub
10-09-2017, 06:19 AM
1. First and foremost! Have fun with your teammates.
2. Try to match up your players with the opponents. This often means you need to know your opponents.
3. If you win celebrate quietly. If you lose, chalk it off as a lesson for everyone.
4. Do your best!
5. Make sure everyone has paid and mark the score sheet accordingly.
6. And last but not least, don't go over the point limit!!

I've captained multiple teams over the years...

As well as this......heh heh...... :thumbup:

WoodyMPW
10-09-2017, 07:06 AM
Drinking heavily will help with the regret of deciding to Captain a team.

frankncali
10-09-2017, 08:37 AM
I typically do just the opposite so that I get 3 chances to putb who i want against who they put up.

Though, there is occasion when I win the flip that I decide to put up first for one reason or another.

I believed in putting up first but most here did not.

There are not tons of options most of the time.

1 match one .. solid performer.. maybe they dodge them a bit which is perfect
2- you react knowing the score and might even have a tip off on their lineup
3- you put up setting up the last 3.. you know your lineup most every time by this point
4 and 5... you control both as you should know their last 2.

Teams laughed at us early on for putting up first but then it soon changed.

CCCue
10-09-2017, 10:28 AM
I believed in putting up first but most here did not.

There are not tons of options most of the time.

1 match one .. solid performer.. maybe they dodge them a bit which is perfect
2- you react knowing the score and might even have a tip off on their lineup
3- you put up setting up the last 3.. you know your lineup most every time by this point
4 and 5... you control both as you should know their last 2.

Teams laughed at us early on for putting up first but then it soon changed.

Thinking this true and I can see when putting up first could work to hour advantage. For example if they have a 6 or 7 on their team, putting up a strong 5 might force them to play the higher SL player. Thus, their options are more limited because of the 23 rule.

jokrswylde
10-09-2017, 11:01 AM
Thanks to all who have taken the time to chime in! I am most anxious about helping my team be competitive and have fun, hopefully helping turn them into pool regulars.

Coop1701
10-09-2017, 12:21 PM
Thanks to all who have taken the time to chime in! I am most anxious about helping my team be competitive and have fun, hopefully helping turn them into pool regulars.

You will have a great time. I have been doing it for awhile now and I like my nights out. Very seldom do we have any drama. There is a lot of good advice everyone has posted. Take them to heart and don't be scared to learn as you go.

ctyhntr
10-09-2017, 12:42 PM
Remember to enjoy your self first. Unless you like footing the bill for the team, collecting the money from everyone who played is a close second. :D

Being competitive team captain
If your team makes it to the post season tournaments (Tri-Cups), where teams from different divisions compete. LO may supply a sheet with every player's info. I usually grab that, and include the information when comes time for match-ups. Nice to know the SL3 the other team is putting up has 800 games under her belt, versus another SL3 who could be a wildcard at only 30 games.


Thanks to all who have taken the time to chime in! I am most anxious about helping my team be competitive and have fun, hopefully helping turn them into pool regulars.

RichSchultz
10-09-2017, 12:56 PM
if someone has had too much to drink, and you think it will affect their play (and the team), be strong and sit them out.

lorider
10-09-2017, 03:41 PM
How about sharing your experience in the ....how are yall dong in league thread.

jokrswylde
10-10-2017, 05:53 AM
How about sharing your experience in the ....how are yall dong in league thread.

good idea, will do

pogmothoin
10-10-2017, 08:18 PM
To really answer that would go into all sorts of depths of discussion and debate :p

My philosophy is to try and match up as evenly as possible while working within the 23- rule restrictions. At least during the regular season, playoffs are a whole other discussion. My feeling is that we're there for fun and for competition.

There are many who really dig into the strategy, and will "throw off", playing lower Skill players against the higher skill players on the other team. I'm not a fan of this for two reasons.....first, no "good" player wants to beat the brains in of a beginner, and have to win 6 or 7 games against someone who is a beginner. Second, and more important to me, is it's no fun for a beginner to have to absorb those beatings. Where is the fun in shooting once or twice, against someone you have no chance against, in order to make the captains strategy of throwing off work? How are they gonna learn, and how are they gonna have any fun and want to keep playing....

This is a debate that I'll never win, and I expect a lot of push back following this post. It's how I feel.

You will see lots of different strategies as you go forward. No real way to tell you all of them, best to do what you think is best, and run with it. Good luck!

I totally agree with you. It's about fun, I'm not matching up a 2 against a 7 during regular session. Playoffs it's all about winning so anything goes, but the regular session is about fun.

justadub
10-11-2017, 08:20 AM
I totally agree with you. It's about fun, I'm not matching up a 2 against a 7 during regular session. Playoffs it's all about winning so anything goes, but the regular session is about fun.

Happened to my team first week of this session.

jokrswylde
10-12-2017, 07:36 AM
So is there an "ideal" makeup of a team where rankings are concerned?

For example, I can see my team legitimately being 2, 3, 4, 4, 5

The team we are playing next week is 2, 4, 5, 6, 6

In this Hypothetical Match, My first thought is to put one of my 4's against their 2.
put myself, 5, against one of their 6's
My strongest 4 against their 4
My other 4 against their 5
My 2 against their other 6

Or would it be better to let the 2's battle it out and then try to match up as even as possible?
SO MANY OPTIONS!

I understand all of this is dependent on who they put up and when. I am just curious if there is a system or strategy that has shown to be effective when it comes to matching up based on rankings...

I don't think I would like sending a 2 out to get blasted buy a 6. I can't imagine that would be fun for either. Sheesh...the more I learn about this APA stuff, the more I realize I know NOTHING!

RichSchultz
10-12-2017, 08:10 AM
So is there an "ideal" makeup of a team where rankings are concerned?

For example, I can see my team legitimately being 2, 3, 4, 4, 5

The team we are playing next week is 2, 4, 5, 6, 6

In this Hypothetical Match, My first thought is to put one of my 4's against their 2.
put myself, 5, against one of their 6's
My strongest 4 against their 4
My other 4 against their 5
My 2 against their other 6

Or would it be better to let the 2's battle it out and then try to match up as even as possible?
SO MANY OPTIONS!

I understand all of this is dependent on who they put up and when. I am just curious if there is a system or strategy that has shown to be effective when it comes to matching up based on rankings...

I don't think I would like sending a 2 out to get blasted buy a 6. I can't imagine that would be fun for either. Sheesh...the more I learn about this APA stuff, the more I realize I know NOTHING!
Do NOT fall into paralysis by analysis. Go with your gut and learn.

CGM
10-12-2017, 10:33 AM
This is my second session as a captain and there are few things Ive learned. 1) You will not be competitive as a team until all of your guys are ranked correctly, unless they are all better than 4's. It usually takes about 5 weeks. 2) A full roster of 8 is much more competitive than only having 5. You just have more options, however, some people get upset if they dont play both. 3) Dont be afraid to ask for money as soon as the match is over. Getting stuck with paying more than your share sucks. 4) Look at winning percentages online to figure out good match ups before the match. A player may be a 4 but have a very low winning percentage meaning they are probably really a high 3. Matching a strong 3 against a weak 4 could net you an easy 3-0 split. 5) I still have a lot to learn.

tonyboy59
10-12-2017, 11:56 AM
Not to be a Debbie downer...it can be a thankless job no doubt. Who wants to play first or last, who's gonna show up or call out, who's gonna be straight or drunk, who's got money to pay their way, if you gotta play a player twice (because you don't have enough people) you usually pay for them to play, who's gonna keep score? I can continue on but I think you get the point.

Enjoy it while it lasts...and good luck.

lorider
10-12-2017, 02:45 PM
Not to be a Debbie downer...it can be a thankless job no doubt. Who wants to play first or last, who's gonna show up or call out, who's gonna be straight or drunk, who's got money to pay their way, if you gotta play a player twice (because you don't have enough people) you usually pay for them to play, who's gonna keep score? I can continue on but I think you get the point.

Enjoy it while it lasts...and good luck.


I have been a captain on as.many as 4 teams a week. Finally got smart and dropped it down to 2 but i still play 4 nights a week. Over the 6 years I have been captain I have encountered every thing you listed except one. Being drunk..

I got rid of a few that never kept score...now every one takes turns and j make it a point to teach new players how to do it properly.

Most have never had a problem paying to play twice and the ones that did claimed they didn't have the money anyway. I helped a few out occasionally by paying for them. Then one night when j went to collect one told me he didn't have the money. I went off like a rocket on his ass and asked him wtf did he show up for if he did not have the money to play. I had another player who had been having the same problem occasionally so.i had a quick team meeting and told every one ...from now on if you dint have the money to play dont show up. Solved that problem right then and there.

Had a few that wanted to play first and leave. I made it a point to throw them last and told them they had to keep score before they played. Solved that problem.

Needless to say there have been a few times it seemed like my team was a revolving door of players but over time managed to get some good people who have stuck with me.

Pelican1989
10-14-2017, 06:09 AM
I typically do just the opposite so that I get 3 chances to putb who i want against who they put up.

Though, there is occasion when I win the flip that I decide to put up first for one reason or another.

Except, if you value skill points and assuming they will play max points (22 or 23 pts only) after the 4th match if you have 5 pts left and they have 4, you already KNOW what they are going to play...so unless they have an underrated player as a 2-3, then you know their best play is a remaining 4 so in fact you are controlling matches 2, 4, and 5, they only control matches 1 and 3

Now however if their full team is there and you only have 2 players at league start time...or vice versa the situation changes

If you don't know who their players are and maybe they only have a 7 and a 2 present, it sucks to throw in a 4-5 hoping for an even match and getting the opposite

In this scenario I would let them throw first

If I knew their skills I'd play into them, aka if you want your 7 to play theirs throw him now and MOST likely they will throw theirs, now you controlled match 1, you will still control match 2,4, and 5 as usual

if the opposite is true and you only have your 2 and 7, and they have full team, you should throw first, to ensure a more likely closer to even match (unless you really have good reason to offset skills

Pelican1989
10-14-2017, 06:50 AM
A few more points.

NEVER argue about rules...if a disagreement on a listed rule happens, ask the other team to show you the ruling. If they don't. You are the correct one. If they show it and the interpretation is disagreed. Get a ruling from the rep or a trusted 3rd party.

Matches are 3 points split. 3 for a shutout, 2 for a win, 1 for a sudden death loss ("hill hill loss"). Something I don't know if more people realize but playing a 2vs2 or a 3vs3 automatically ensures the teams will SPLIT 3 points per match instead of the chance of a 2-0 match

if you think your best player might get creamed...play your worst instead. Teach your players to take this match VERY seriously, and remind them if they get any games it's a HUGE win for the team. Even when they lose its a huge win, because now your best can play their 2nd best and win (more likely anyway). For example if they are playing 76532 and you're playing 66542, if their 7 is a "super seven" (who has like an 70%+ win ratio) playing "even" is a losing move.
Instead you can play your 2 against 7 and have each of your players have a 1 skill edge in their matches (higher skills do best lower ones more often, even if there is an equalizer)

I always coach my players, it's how they learn, if they have 2 coaches and are at least halfway through their balls and a tricky butnimportant situation comes up (like the differences between scratching versus making an easy 3 balls) CALL the coach, they probably don't know they need one. Save your second coaching for a desperate kick, a really scratchy 8 possibly loss, or an important position onto the 8 etc

Before the match write up all possible "max skill lines". I do all lines that add to 22 or 23. figure out which players are common on several lines. Like if you have only the lines 75443 and 65444, you know the 4's and 5 will play either way. If you throw them in matches 1, 2, and 3, you still have options of lines and your nopponent can't predict what you'll play

His uncertainty may lead to a mistake in matching up effectively

The same logic allows you to predict their lines and cross off lines no longer possible, sometimes thinkers you known by match 2 or 3 (sometimes even match 1) exactly what they can play

really good players in a skill level are great against both 1 skill level down (good chance of shutout) or 1 skill up (good chance for a non shutout win, against a "better" player at that)

a really good 4 is super stressful for a 7 to play, 1 game alone earns a point, 2 is a WIN! If the 7 is low end, and the 4 is good, it's a really great value match (and you gain 3 skill in difference that you can spread across 3 players for 3 advantage matches, as I said higher skills do win more often against low)

play drinkers early, or ask them to be slow drinking before their match

Play nervous players first when the pressure of winning it all or losing it all comes down to them in the last match

there are some ultra simple but key shots, that low players repeatedly will be unsure of like a hanging ball in a pocket and not scratching (straight in), or getting easy position off ball in hand etc, make sure they always use SOME angle

Show them 2 way shots, if 2 options are equally likely to go in, show them how to know when one miss would sell out the game whereas the other might play safe or leave a difficult shot, 2 way shots are the best way to play strategically while keeping skill levels lower (totally ethical)

ALWAYS mark defensives, especially for the other team, if they don't call safety but they "did not try to make the ball" mark it, teach your players to call defensives before they prepare to shoot, not after, as you might want to coach them to shoot offense instead (or vice versa if a clear defense is available)

RichSchultz
10-14-2017, 07:06 AM
A few more points.

NEVER argue about rules...if a disagreement on a listed rule happens, ask the other team to show you the ruling. If they don't. You are the correct one. If they show it and the interpretation is disagreed. Get a ruling from the rep or a trusted 3rd party.

Matches are 3 points split. 3 for a shutout, 2 for a win, 1 for a sudden death loss ("hill hill loss"). Something I don't know if more people realize but playing a 2vs2 or a 3vs3 automatically ensures the teams will SPLIT 3 points per match instead of the chance of a 2-0 match

if you think your best player might get creamed...play your worst instead. Teach your players to take this match VERY seriously, and remind them if they get any games it's a HUGE win for the team. Even when they lose its a huge win, because now your best can play their 2nd best and win (more likely anyway). For example if they are playing 76532 and you're playing 66542, if their 7 is a "super seven" (who has like an 70%+ win ratio) playing "even" is a losing move.
Instead you can play your 2 against 7 and have each of your players have a 1 skill edge in their matches (higher skills do best lower ones more often, even if there is an equalizer)

I always coach my players, it's how they learn, if they have 2 coaches and are at least halfway through their balls and a tricky butnimportant situation comes up (like the differences between scratching versus making an easy 3 balls) CALL the coach, they probably don't know they need one. Save your second coaching for a desperate kick, a really scratchy 8 possibly loss, or an important position onto the 8 etc

Before the match write up all possible "max skill lines". I do all lines that add to 22 or 23. figure out which players are common on several lines. Like if you have only the lines 75443 and 65444, you know the 4's and 5 will play either way. If you throw them in matches 1, 2, and 3, you still have options of lines and your nopponent can't predict what you'll play

His uncertainty may lead to a mistake in matching up effectively

The same logic allows you to predict their lines and cross off lines no longer possible, sometimes thinkers you known by match 2 or 3 (sometimes even match 1) exactly what they can play

really good players in a skill level are great against both 1 skill level down (good chance of shutout) or 1 skill up (good chance for a non shutout win, against a "better" player at that)

a really good 4 is super stressful for a 7 to play, 1 game alone earns a point, 2 is a WIN! If the 7 is low end, and the 4 is good, it's a really great value match (and you gain 3 skill in difference that you can spread across 3 players for 3 advantage matches, as I said higher skills do win more often against low)

play drinkers early, or ask them to be slow drinking before their match

Play nervous players first when the pressure of winning it all or losing it all comes down to them in the last match

there are some ultra simple but key shots, that low players repeatedly will be unsure of like a hanging ball in a pocket and not scratching (straight in), or getting easy position off ball in hand etc, make sure they always use SOME angle

Show them 2 way shots, if 2 options are equally likely to go in, show them how to know when one miss would sell out the game whereas the other might play safe or leave a difficult shot, 2 way shots are the best way to play strategically while keeping skill levels lower (totally ethical)

ALWAYS mark defensives, especially for the other team, if they don't call safety but they "did not try to make the ball" mark it, teach your players to call defensives before they prepare to shoot, not after, as you might want to coach them to shoot offense instead (or vice versa if a clear defense is available)
Excellent points! But remember, if a strong 4 is on the bubble, and beats a 7...you know what may happen next week. Just prepare for that possibility to ensure that a new 5 won't upset your #s.

Kickin' Chicken
10-14-2017, 07:24 AM
Lots of great advice so far and I will add this:

When calling a time out I always suggest asking the player what they have in mind first before sharing your thoughts. This will give you valuable insight into your team members strengths, weaknesses, and general knowledge of the game.

It can be a helpful teachable moment that can pay dividends for both of you going forward.

And the very best advice, imo, as has been said a lot here is to have fun.

best,
brian kc

whammo57
10-14-2017, 08:18 AM
Have some personal integrity............. never ever let any member of your team play a match without absolutely trying to win..................

Do not play the sand bagging game.............. report all sandbaggers with a note on the bottom of your score sheet.........

Never ever agree to over post, double post, or do a make up......................

Play by the rules............

You will be happier and satisfied but you will never go to Vegas..............


Kim

RichSchultz
10-14-2017, 08:51 AM
My personal rule: I NEVER sit someone 2 weeks in a row. They are there to play and have fun.

lorider
10-14-2017, 02:51 PM
My personal rule: I NEVER sit someone 2 weeks in a row. They are there to play and have fun.

My policy also..sometimes you wind up losing that night because you feel obligated to play some one that you sat out last week and you have a better player sitting this week that could possibly have given your team the win that night.

Personally I prefer to play double jeopardy. Playing both 8 and 9 the same night makes it a whole lot easier to her every player on the team at least one match that night..

us820
10-14-2017, 03:43 PM
Has anybody here just put a fun 5 man everybody plays every week type team together?

lorider
10-14-2017, 05:30 PM
Has anybody here just put a fun 5 man everybody plays every week type team together?

Yes. However as you know.....sometimes life gets in the way of pool. When that happens you are screwed and have to forfeit a match when some one does not show unless the opposing team allows a replay. Some captains will not allow a replay because it an easy win for their team.

My magic number for a team is 6 players.

pogmothoin
10-14-2017, 10:46 PM
Has anybody here just put a fun 5 man everybody plays every week type team together?

Not exactly a recipe for success if your numbers are close to the limit. Couple of people get raised and you no longer have a team.

pogmothoin
10-14-2017, 10:53 PM
Lots of great advice so far and I will add this:

When calling a time out I always suggest asking the player what they have in mind first before sharing your thoughts. This will give you valuable insight into your team members strengths, weaknesses, and general knowledge of the game.

It can be a helpful teachable moment that can pay dividends for both of you going forward.

And the very best advice, imo, as has been said a lot here is to have fun.

best,
brian kc

Good piece of advice right there.

Also don't tell a 3 to do things they are not capable of. Can't teach a stroke in a 30 second time out. Tailor your advice to your player.

justadub
10-15-2017, 10:56 AM
My personal rule: I NEVER sit someone 2 weeks in a row. They are there to play and have fun.

Agreed. Like any "rule", there will sometimes be exceptions, but I will do everything I can to stick to that philosophy. I will sit rather than let that happen, most of the time.

Missing Link
10-15-2017, 05:28 PM
Order the book "How to be the Captain of a Winning APA 8-Ball Team" by John Loftus.

I have used the principles in this book to coach teams to the finals every session since 2009, with a team going to Vegas and placing 17th nationwide in 2012. Anything I could tell you is said much better in this book, and well worth the $20.

jokrswylde
10-19-2017, 07:24 AM
So I have my first case of a member being upset about a decision I made. This is a good buddy of mine, plays at my house weekly, and I have a good idea of how strong of a player he is. Here is the scenario:

Tight match with three matches left. Me, pretty strong four, another guy a strong 3, and my buddy an average to low 3.

The other team has 5, 5, 3 left. It is my turn to put up. I felt very confident in putting my strong 3 up against their 3...no doubt. My buddy against their 3 would be 50/50 at best, leaning toward us losing.

So I put up my strong 3 against their 3 and he won 3-1.

That left me and my buddy playing the two 5's from the other team. Well he got steamrolled in about 15 minutes and lost 5-0.

The bad part is that it looked like he tanked the last games, trying crazy shots, not taking his time, just walking up and banging it. As I was about to start my match, I overheard him make the comment to a teammate that it doesn't make sense to put him up against a 5 when I know he can't win. As soon as the match was over he broke down his stick and left.

I still feel like I made the right decision that gave us the best chance to win. I explained to my buddy before I put him up that I didn't expect or need him to win, just try hard to not get shutout.

Two weeks into this thing and already having hurt feelings! I guess I will try to throw him a bone next week and try to match him up with a 2, let him get some confidence and good vibes. Any thoughts about how I could have handled it differently?

Koop
10-19-2017, 07:49 AM
That left me and my buddy playing the two 5's from the other team. Well he got steamrolled in about 15 minutes and lost 5-0.

The bad part is that it looked like he tanked the last games, trying crazy shots, not taking his time, just walking up and banging it. As I was about to start my match, I overheard him make the comment to a teammate that it doesn't make sense to put him up against a 5 when I know he can't win. As soon as the match was over he broke down his stick and left.

I still feel like I made the right decision that gave us the best chance to win. I explained to my buddy before I put him up that I didn't expect or need him to win, just try hard to not get shutout.

Two weeks into this thing and already having hurt feelings! I guess I will try to throw him a bone next week and try to match him up with a 2, let him get some confidence and good vibes. Any thoughts about how I could have handled it differently?

You handled it right, IMO.
You got the win and he had a shot, with a decent spot, to steal a win. Sounds like he defeated himself before a ball struck and that's on him, not you. Does he expect you to cater to his level of play every week to protect his delicate ego? Seriously, I know this sounds harsh but, stay home and play video games if you can't handle some competition.

Koop
10-19-2017, 07:59 AM
You handled it right, IMO.
You got the win and he had a shot, with a decent spot, to steal a win. Sounds like he defeated himself before a ball struck and that's on him, not you. Does he expect you to cater to his level of play every week to protect his delicate ego? Seriously, I know this sounds harsh but, stay home and play video games if you can't handle some competition.

Just to follow up with something that happened to me last week to give you an idea of the opposite type players. My buddy James and I are both APA 7's with him being leaps and bounds better. We are on the same USAPL team playing both 8 and 10 ball. We both won out matches easily but were short players so the other team allowed us to ghost which meant, they get to pick who they get to play from our team. James and I were convinced they would duck us but guess what?....they picked us to play. This was both smart and ballsy, IMO!
It was ballsy because they watched us dismantle their guys earlier and they decided they weren't going for the easy points. Massive respect for them. It was smart because we were giving up way too much weight and they took advantage. They beat both of us and fairly convincingly.

I bring this up because, if your guy had an ounce of these guys attitudes, he may have pulled off the upset or at the very least not looked a little pissed off kid whacking balls around because he already beat himself mentally.

justadub
10-19-2017, 08:01 AM
Yeah, you probly made the right call, and now you've begun to see the actual hard part of captaining....the people management. You oughta try explaining to him that everyone will eventually be matched up with someone that is a much stronger player. It's a given. The key to that is to try and make them work for it. And remind him that lower level players beat higher level players all the time, you just gotta be ready when the opportunity presents itself.

Good luck. League might not be for him.....

RichSchultz
10-19-2017, 08:17 AM
You did everything right. He needs to get over it.

Celophanewrap
10-19-2017, 08:47 AM
So I have my first case of a member being upset about a decision I made. This is a good buddy of mine, plays at my house weekly, and I have a good idea of how strong of a player he is. Here is the scenario:

Tight match with three matches left. Me, pretty strong four, another guy a strong 3, and my buddy an average to low 3.

The other team has 5, 5, 3 left. It is my turn to put up. I felt very confident in putting my strong 3 up against their 3...no doubt. My buddy against their 3 would be 50/50 at best, leaning toward us losing.

So I put up my strong 3 against their 3 and he won 3-1.

That left me and my buddy playing the two 5's from the other team. Well he got steamrolled in about 15 minutes and lost 5-0.

The bad part is that it looked like he tanked the last games, trying crazy shots, not taking his time, just walking up and banging it. As I was about to start my match, I overheard him make the comment to a teammate that it doesn't make sense to put him up against a 5 when I know he can't win. As soon as the match was over he broke down his stick and left.

I still feel like I made the right decision that gave us the best chance to win. I explained to my buddy before I put him up that I didn't expect or need him to win, just try hard to not get shutout.

Two weeks into this thing and already having hurt feelings! I guess I will try to throw him a bone next week and try to match him up with a 2, let him get some confidence and good vibes. Any thoughts about how I could have handled it differently?

He's your buddy, of course you're gonna look out for him......
I think you did it right, your stronger 3 need to play the other 3 and you need to try to
play the weaker 5, one of you was gonna get sacrificed, it made sense to try to match
your weakest player to their strongest. Your buddy needs to realize that he's on a
team, there will be weeks when that's gonna happen and everyone, for whatever
reason, will get a turn. It's how the match-ups fall and that's what happens. You did the
right thing, as long as winning was your main goal, but you still expected his best
effort. Who knows if their five was maybe having a bad week, or gets freaked out when
he has to give up weight. I say those things because sometimes you' have to play what
have and you just want to get through all five and someone has to play first and leave
leave early and someone forgot their cue, etc... Those nights you really can't have a
strategy and you need to get through it.
But really, your buddy can either be on the team or not. You can add or drop with the
first 4 weeks, don't be afraid to remind him of that when you ask what he wants to do.

justadub
10-19-2017, 09:16 AM
All their 5 had to do was E-8 or scratch on the 8, or hang the 8 in the corner, and your guy would have gotten at least one point. That stuff happens, all the time and to better players than 5's. Get that thru to your guy....

Captain18
10-19-2017, 02:18 PM
I have been Captaining teams for almost 2 decades in various leagues.... there are a few things that I always do and have always had success with.
Team dues..... make everyone pay the same as opposed to paying if they shoot ... if your team dues are $400 for the session and you have 8 players then each players session dues are $50 Everyone pays the same to tart and everyone gets an equal share of any winnings. ( I keep a log inside my scorebook to mark who is paid and who is not so there is no confusion. )
Be supportive.... If your player is ahead or behind in the match always encourage them and be a good teammate, the rest of the team will feed from you.
Know the rulebook and advise your players of the rules as it pertains to their match,...... don't be an ass about the rules but know them so you are prepared when the other team tries to use them against you. (unfortunately it happens from time to time)
Have Fun...don't get caught up in the drama of working the numbers or sandbagging players...I have seen too many arguments and teams split over this crap to count!.... it may take awhile for your team to be successful but make light of the competition early on and develop a good team atmosphere, then you can start to realize your potential and become more competitive.

Many other good suggestions here from others as well .... I'd say absorb the advice and see what works best for your team.