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Saturated Fats
10-20-2017, 04:03 PM
Is there a system for these two rail kicks/banks?

Z-Nole
10-20-2017, 04:12 PM
Practice, practice and more practice is the only thing that has worked for me.

MitchAlsup
10-20-2017, 04:23 PM
Yes: It relies on the fact that the first rail adds side spin and the second rail absorbs the sidespin induced by the first rail. The typical ratio is:: 3:3:2. This means if you are at a corner pocket, aim at that 3rd diamond on the opposite side, this will hit the 6th diamond on the original side and roll towards the opposite corner pocket 2 diamonds farther down.

But different tables play differently, and you have to be very careful with both sidespin and top/dot spin.

longhorns2
10-20-2017, 05:25 PM
One think to keep in mind is there's no perfect system, even for regular kicks. The good ones will say to use running english and a certain speed, but just keep in mind spin, deflection, speed, masse and the rails you're playing on all make a difference.

one stroke
10-20-2017, 05:34 PM
One think to keep in mind is there's no perfect system, even for regular kicks. The good ones will say to use running english and a certain speed, but just keep in mind spin, deflection, speed, masse and the rails you're playing on all make a difference.

So it stands to reason no spin gives true angles ?

1

BmoreMoney
10-20-2017, 05:43 PM
Ask a good, serious, one pocket player.

BmoreMoney
10-20-2017, 05:45 PM
So it stands to reason no spin gives true angles ?

1

No matter what anyone says or tries to claim, every rail on every table plays a little different.

longhorns2
10-20-2017, 07:01 PM
So it stands to reason no spin gives true angles ?

1

Well I forgot to mention that follow and draw affect how the cb will come off the rail, so you have to account for that too. This is why any system for kicks or banks is just a general guideline. You should read banking with the beard and also the pkf book or whatever it's called by tor. In the end I think you have to get good enough where you just kinda feel it. I'm pretty sure that's how efren does it

dr_dave
10-20-2017, 08:19 PM
Is there a system for these two rail kicks/banks?See the two-times-across Z-kick aiming system (http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/banks_and_kicks.html#Z-kick) resource page.

Regards,
Dave

Scott Lee
10-22-2017, 10:47 AM
Not true if banking the OB. This shot can be played as a stop shot on the CB, meaning there is no spin of any kind initially on the OB. It develops natural roll after skidding into the first rail. Set up the CB/OB path from the corner pocket to the 3rd diamond on the long rail. Speed and accuracy are what make this shot. Absolutely agree that every table plays a little different...every day!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Yes: It relies on the fact that the first rail adds side spin and the second rail absorbs the sidespin induced by the first rail. The typical ratio is:: 3:3:2. This means if you are at a corner pocket, aim at that 3rd diamond on the opposite side, this will hit the 6th diamond on the original side and roll towards the opposite corner pocket 2 diamonds farther down.

But different tables play differently, and you have to be very careful with both sidespin and top/dot spin.

Scott Lee
10-22-2017, 10:51 AM
They are two different things...kicking with a Z-bank effect...and banking an OB with a Z-bank effect.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Is there a system for these two rail kicks/banks?

1hit1der
10-22-2017, 08:42 PM
Here's Jimmy Reid's explanation of his system to go along with Dr Dave's image:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWaJGytSFjE

336Robin
10-23-2017, 09:25 AM
See the two-times-across Z-kick aiming system (http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/banks_and_kicks.html#Z-kick) resource page.

Regards,
Dave

Jimmy can be hard to understand at times but in the end he did a great job if you can simplify what he said. A picture is worth a thousand words here.

I always play these with a tip of outside banking a ball. Throws wider off the first rail and tamps down off the second. You can also express the spin a little more and bend the trajectory to correct from wilder angles. If you look at the coming out number to first rail you think it won't work but its very close and stroke dependent.

The 1/16 of the diamond first rail is real good adjustment rule for two rail kicks when you need to get out of a trap in One Pocket. Allows you to kick around a cluster and if you wont sell out and push something toward your pocket or just make the hit. Very applicable to One Pocket....if you won't sell out.

BRussell
10-23-2017, 10:01 AM
My Z system is to hold my cue towards the target rail, find the angle towards the second rail, look to the target ball, and then shoot a different shot.

Poolmanis
10-23-2017, 01:12 PM
Speed is Crucial on 2 railers. Even more than any other bank/kick shots. Just my 2 cents.

MitchAlsup
10-23-2017, 07:06 PM
See the two-times-across Z-kick aiming system (http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/banks_and_kicks.html#Z-kick) resource page.


Note, the rail-rail-corner (magenta) line uses the same 3:3:2 as the one I described above.

bbb
10-24-2017, 04:19 AM
Note, the rail-rail-corner (magenta) line uses the same 3:3:2 as the one I described above.

SORRY FOR THE HUGE PICTURE
I DONT KNOW WHY IT UPLOADED SO LARGE
i am not so good with numbers
usinig diamonds
the cue ball starts at 4 ..aims at 2 1/2 ....hits first diamond...goes to corner (0)
how is that 3:3:2 ???
this the pic from dr dave resources done by patrick johnson
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