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OLD NO 9
10-22-2017, 02:12 PM
Does Justin Bergman have to win the US Open 9-ball for people to admit that there was a grave misjudgement perpetrated?

couldnthinkof01
10-22-2017, 02:27 PM
I have watched him many times in person and on video.
He is as good or better than many on the mosconi team( i assume this is what your referencing).
Is it a huge dissapointment, no.
Coaches and managers pick teams for many reasons.
We have a good team and I think they have a fine
chance to win.
If Justin takes the open that is a testiment to his game
not the mosconi powers that be.
Or lack there of.

iba7467
10-22-2017, 02:29 PM
Does Justin Bergman have to win the US Open 9-ball for people to admit that there was a grave misjudgement perpetrated?

Justin is a better player than most of the team. One player on the team asked for a 15 game spot and will probably get it. Two others can get played for a ridiculous amount of money. That does not matter - support the team. I guarantee that Justin is disappointed, and he wants the US to win.

markpatrick
10-22-2017, 02:46 PM
Justin is a better player than most of the team. One player on the team asked for a 15 game spot and will probably get it. Two others can get played for a ridiculous amount of money. That does not matter - support the team. I guarantee that Justin is disappointed, and he wants the US to win.

JB does not have to jump through hoops, play in tournaments a LONG way from home to make the Mosconi team. Like IBA said, 15 game spot or more for BIG $$$$.

Good Luck Mosconi team.

Rhea
10-22-2017, 02:50 PM
I predict Justin Bergman to finish in the final 4.

iba7467
10-22-2017, 03:25 PM
I predict Justin Bergman to finish in the final 4.

I will give you 3:1 that he does not. I hope he wins it, but I think you are overly optimistic.

benny-the-blade
10-22-2017, 03:37 PM
I will give you 2:1 that he does not. I hope he wins it, but I think you are overly optimistic.

Yep...top 15 is more realistic. Likely plays Melling next, then a date with Chang Jung Lin. This field has killers everywhere.

trophycue
10-22-2017, 03:46 PM
JB can't make it to the tournaments, can't get sponsorship, can't get money games............something is not right . Why should he be handed such an honor for doing nothing ?. The other players paid there way somehow, and earned there way on the team . And if he is the 2nd best US player, he would have NP paying his way . Something wrong somewhere .

jasonlaus
10-22-2017, 04:17 PM
I predict Justin Bergman to finish in the final 4.

3 to 1 bet min $500
Jason

J SCHWARZ
10-22-2017, 04:37 PM
IMHO JB has been paying dues for years for the right to play on the team. The points race is mostly hype to build
suspense for the event. Spending 10 - 20k chasing points all year to win 10 or 20k is a hard nut to crack. A few of the guys on the team want nothing to do with playing Justin even, that alone tells me he should be on the team.

trophycue
10-22-2017, 04:54 PM
IMHO JB has been paying dues for years for the right to play on the team. The points race is mostly hype to build
suspense for the event. Spending 10 - 20k chasing points all year to win 10 or 20k is a hard nut to crack. A few of the guys on the team want nothing to do with playing Justin even, that alone tells me he should be on the team.

Absolutely is a hard nut to crack.......... I want the guy that goes and puts in a solid effort to crack that nut..........not the guy that sits at home and says, this is to tough and not worth it .

OLD NO 9
10-22-2017, 05:14 PM
Absolutely is a hard nut to crack.......... I want the guy that goes and puts in a solid effort to crack that nut..........not the guy that sits at home and says, this is to tough and not worth it .

I want the best most talented team available, which we obviously don't have without Justin on the team.

Quit acting the fool

jalapus logan
10-22-2017, 05:45 PM
Absolutely is a hard nut to crack.......... I want the guy that goes and puts in a solid effort to crack that nut..........not the guy that sits at home and says, this is to tough and not worth it .

The only problem is that this particular nut literally is not worth the effort to crack. There is no series of pro events worth paying to attend the entire series. I wish it weren't true, but it is. Justin is a world class player and one of America's best, but alas, he is living living in a time where our general public could care less about the game we here on AZB adore. Truth hurts I'm afraid.

trophycue
10-22-2017, 06:15 PM
I want the best most talented team available, which we obviously don't have without Justin on the team.

Quit acting the fool

Plain and simple......he didn't earn it....others did. Are you gonna be the guy to tell Oscar, I dont care how much money you spent, how much time you put in . We're giving the spot to the guy that sat at home , and said I'm not even tryin and if they dont pick me I'm OK with that . Open your mind a li'l and let the cob webs out.

one stroke
10-22-2017, 06:22 PM
The only problem is that this particular nut literally is not worth the effort to crack. There is no series of pro events worth paying to attend the entire series. I wish it weren't true, but it is. Justin is a world class player and one of America's best, but alas, he is living living in a time where our general public could care less about the game we here on AZB adore. Truth hurts I'm afraid.

The fact is he's good enough to qualify and that's guaranteed cash , plus if he wins along the way so if he's that good as suggested it can't be anything other than win win for him
So called lessor players have done just that ,,
Anyone on that list trying to get 15 on the wire from him is trying to steal

1

OLD NO 9
10-22-2017, 06:23 PM
Plain and simple......he didn't earn it....others did. Are you gonna be the guy to tell Oscar, I dont care how much money you spent, how much time you put in . We're giving the spot to the guy that sat at home , and said I'm not even tryin and if they dont pick me I'm OK with that . Open your mind a li'l and let the cob webs out.

It wouldn't be Oscar

spartan
10-22-2017, 06:54 PM
Yes, plenty of killers. Not usual run of mill killers, these are John Wick type of killers. Finishing top 16 here is not bad result for top player. Last year #16 paid $2750 more than enough to cover expenses . Unlike decade ago, not just a handful can win whole thing. Many many handfuls can win whole thing. :D

jalapus logan
10-22-2017, 07:00 PM
Yes, plenty of killers. Not usual run of mill killers, these are John Wick type of killers. Finishing top 16 here is not bad result for top player. Last year #16 paid $2750 more than enough to cover expenses . Unlike decade ago, not just a handful can win whole thing. Many many handfuls can win whole thing. :D

Add a zero to your figure and maybe we will then have a sport...

one stroke
10-22-2017, 07:25 PM
Add a zero to your figure and maybe we will then have a sport...

Ha good luck with that , ,, until someone who has pockets full of money and loves the game so much that he will invest in it to take a loss in hopes of growing the game it ain't happening here and it's debatable if it's even feasible in the USA market with our level of Tv entertainment,,


1

jalapus logan
10-22-2017, 07:28 PM
Ha good luck with that , ,, until someone who has pockets full of money and loves the game so much that he will invest in it to take a loss in hopes of growing the game it ain't happening here and it's debatable if it's even feasible in the USA market with our level of Tv entertainment,,


1

Indeed. I wish you were wrong, but you're not...

The-Professor
10-22-2017, 07:29 PM
It wouldn't be Oscar

I love Justin's game, but his finishes didn't really warrant a Mosconi Cup Pick this year. I understand traveling is expensive and may not always be worth it to players. And.. yes, he's better than everyone on the team but Shane, but thats not the only consideration.

I think the player that really has a right to be upset (Unless he was asked and declined) was Donny Mills. He finished high in standings, is better than most of the players on the team (maybe everyone but Shane), was finishing high in tough tournaments around the selection dates, and apparently got passed over.

OLD NO 9
10-22-2017, 07:53 PM
[QUOTE=The-Professor;6000354]I love Justin's game, but his finishes didn't really warrant a Mosconi Cup Pick this year. I understand traveling is expensive and may not always be worth it to players. And.. yes, he's better than everyone on the team but Shane, but thats not the only consideration.

By your own admission Justin would be the second best player. The criteria for making the team leaves a coaches pick. Why would any coach leave their second best player sitting in the stands?

The-Professor
10-23-2017, 04:45 AM
[QUOTE=The-Professor;6000354]I love Justin's game, but his finishes didn't really warrant a Mosconi Cup Pick this year. I understand traveling is expensive and may not always be worth it to players. And.. yes, he's better than everyone on the team but Shane, but thats not the only consideration.

By your own admission Justin would be the second best player. The criteria for making the team leaves a coaches pick. Why would any coach leave their second best player sitting in the stands?

it is possible that the coach viewed Justins lack of travel/tournament play (that counted towards Mosconi points) as a sign that he either. A. Took it for granted that he would be a coaches choice because he plays so well.... or B. That he didn't want to be on the team bad enough to chase the points (the way that several other players did).

Coaches do make decisions at times based on these types of considerations.

lfigueroa
10-23-2017, 06:33 AM
If pool is your chosen profession, and the MC (for better or worse) is one of the premier events of your profession, you should be doing whatever necessary to qualify. If you don't have the "want to" and go so far as to publicly state you wouldn't be bothered not making the team, then you should not be chosen even if you are the best player on the planet.

In life, you have to work for what you want and almost universally a lack of motivation is recognized as a negative. People in charge make decisions based upon principle and concern over setting bad precedent, and once you select one player who has not gone all out to make the team, you are on a slippery slope in future years.

Is he good enough to play on the team, yes. Does he deserve to be on the team, no.

Lou Figueroa

OLD NO 9
10-23-2017, 07:40 AM
If pool is your chosen profession, and the MC (for better or worse) is one of the premier events of your profession, you should be doing whatever necessary to qualify. If you don't have the "want to" and go so far as to publicly state you wouldn't be bothered not making the team, then you should not be chosen even if you are the best player on the planet.

In life, you have to work for what you want and almost universally a lack of motivation is recognized as a negative. People in charge make decisions based upon principle and concern over setting bad precedent, and once you select one player who has not gone all out to make the team, you are on a slippery slope in future years.

Is he good enough to play on the team, yes. Does he deserve to be on the team, no.

Lou Figueroa

Yea, hang those participation trophies high. I much prefer the ones earned for placing first.

lfigueroa
10-23-2017, 02:27 PM
Yea, hang those participation trophies high. I much prefer the ones earned for placing first.


I would hope that would not be at any cost.

Regrettably, in the pool, we sometimes ignore what is right and moral. The: oh, he puts on a good tournament mentality, in which we should excuse calling it a world championship when it is not; or screwing the players on the prize money; maybe manipulating the draw to favorably accommodate certain players; or just insert your favorite bit of skullduggery.

In every walk of life decision makers reward hand work and ambition with few free passes out there in the real world.

Lou Figueroa

sjm
10-23-2017, 02:40 PM
Does Justin Bergman have to win the US Open 9-ball for people to admit that there was a grave misjudgement perpetrated?

No, he doesn't.

Bergman was the best, and arguably the only solid, American player, at the 2016 Mosconi Cup. I don't know why past Mosconi performance is ignored when the Team USA wild cards are selected (Justin Hall, the only American that played well at the 2014 Mosconi was, similarly, omitted from the 2015 team).

The Bergman choice should have been obvious.

lfigueroa
10-23-2017, 06:59 PM
No, he doesn't.

Bergman was the best player, and arguably the only solid American player, at the 2016 Mosconi Cup. I don't know why past Mosconi performance is ignored when the Team USA wild cards are selected (Justin Hall, the only American that played well at the 2014 Mosconi was, similarly, omitted from the 2015 team).

The Bergman choice should have been obvious.


Guess it wasn’t so obvious to Ruijsink.

Lou Figueroa
wadda he know

jay helfert
10-23-2017, 09:29 PM
I'd say the jury is out on Johan until Dec. 7. As for.me I will wait to comment on his strategy. No question he is taking a far different couse than past Captains and we know how well they did. I kind of like the make up of this year's team. Team chemistry is vitally important. If they do nothing more than bring out the real SVB it will be a success. An on fire Shane could change everything!

It's George
10-24-2017, 12:26 AM
How many years has Shane had to get on fire? He just hasn't done it at the MC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pmac666
10-24-2017, 02:05 AM
can it just be that JB is overrated (not only in fargo)?
sure, he wins alot bartable events, but i only very rarely see him in big fields on big tables! always have the feeling he doesnt really searching for the big competition.......(the few times i saw him on big tables, he didnt look like a top 15 player in the world.....by far and i watch alot of pool)
also his attitude towards the cup isnt very good, when he doesnt try to get the necessary points like everyone else (+ not getting the experience in those tourneys)! i think johan made the right decission, JB would have been a bad choice for the team and the chemistry after watching all the others chasing for the points! (and yes, i think he might be better than others on the team, but still...)

marek
10-24-2017, 03:47 AM
can it just be that JB is overrated (not only in fargo)?
sure, he wins alot bartable events, but i only very rarely see him in big fields on big tables! always have the feeling he doesnt really searching for the big competition.......(the few times i saw him on big tables, he didnt look like a top 15 player in the world.....by far and i watch alot of pool)
also his attitude towards the cup isnt very good, when he doesnt try to get the necessary points like everyone else (+ not getting the experience in those tourneys)! i think johan made the right decission, JB would have been a bad choice for the team and the chemistry after watching all the others chasing for the points! (and yes, i think he might be better than others on the team, but still...)

As far as fargorate on small vs big tables goes I asked the same question 2-3 months back and Mike provided numbers which basically told the story that JB is even better on big tables than on small tables fargorate-wise. As far as team-chemistry goes I dont know the relationship between JB and US team members to judge the benefit of JB being/not being on the team but I can tell you that Johann definitely took into consideration JBs attitude towards this year MC point race and it basically killed any chance of JB being on the team.

spartan
10-24-2017, 05:14 AM
I don't like popcorn but this is quite a popcorn worthy thread
Very frank almost harsh comments. :thumbup::thumbup:

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/popcorn-gifs/jon-popcorn.gif

justinb386
10-24-2017, 07:16 AM
Plain and simple......he didn't earn it....others did. Are you gonna be the guy to tell Oscar, I dont care how much money you spent, how much time you put in . We're giving the spot to the guy that sat at home , and said I'm not even tryin and if they dont pick me I'm OK with that . Open your mind a li'l and let the cob webs out.

You make a great point. I think a player should have to earn their spot on the mosconi cup team, no matter how good they are. It is not right if they do not put in the work, and earn enough points to to earn their spot on the team. I assume that the players that are on the team earned their spot.

By the way, Bergman has been my favorite player for a long time. Always loved his playing style. I think he is really great. It is sad to hear that he is not on the team.

pmac666
10-24-2017, 08:27 AM
As far as fargorate on small vs big tables goes I asked the same question 2-3 months back and Mike provided numbers which basically told the story that JB is even better on big tables than on small tables fargorate-wise. As far as team-chemistry goes I dont know the relationship between JB and US team members to judge the benefit of JB being/not being on the team but I can tell you that Johann definitely took into consideration JBs attitude towards this year MC point race and it basically killed any chance of JB being on the team.

jep i saw that, only i dont have much faith in fargo!
maybe JB is a top 15 player in the world......only a real proof is somehow missing other than his annual 5th to 33th place at the US open and that he wants to play for big dollars (where he basically exludes himself from being top 15 by not wanting to play the asians and shane)!
as said, he might be top 15, only i dont buy it aslong as i see some proof in form of big tourney results! (like albin maybe, whos still behind JB i think lolol) but ofc that requires travelling and the will to do it, so i guess we will never see how good JB really is.......

jokrswylde
10-24-2017, 08:39 AM
jep i saw that, only i dont have much faith in fargo!
maybe JB is a top 15 player in the world......only a real proof is somehow missing other than his annual 5th to 33th place at the US open and that he wants to play for big dollars (where he basically exludes himself from being top 15 by not wanting to play the asians and shane)!
as said, he might be top 15, only i dont buy it aslong as i see some proof in form of big tourney results! (like albin maybe, whos still behind JB i think lolol) but ofc that requires travelling and the will to do it, so i guess we will never see how good JB really is.......

I get what you are saying, and I don't know the financials, but it seems to me that if you are having to pay your way to big, overseas tournaments, where there is a good chance you won't even break even unless you win, then you have to weigh the feasibility of even going. I mean, when you play pool, and it costs you money instead of making money, isn't it then just an expensive hobby that you are really good at, and not a profession??

Maybe some of these guys need to start a go fund me for tourney costs...seems like folks will start a go fund me for anything nowadays:rolleyes:

The-Professor
10-24-2017, 08:52 AM
can it just be that JB is overrated (not only in fargo)?
sure, he wins alot bartable events, but i only very rarely see him in big fields on big tables! always have the feeling he doesnt really searching for the big competition.......(the few times i saw him on big tables, he didnt look like a top 15 player in the world.....by far and i watch alot of pool)
also his attitude towards the cup isnt very good, when he doesnt try to get the necessary points like everyone else (+ not getting the experience in those tourneys)! i think johan made the right decission, JB would have been a bad choice for the team and the chemistry after watching all the others chasing for the points! (and yes, i think he might be better than others on the team, but still...)

There aren't lots of big table events in the U.S with big fields so you don't see him a lot in those for sure.

As far as being overrated... He offered the United States, like everyone here (except Shane) 10 games going to 100 and has had no takers as of yet (that I am aware of). He has also tortured Jason Shaw and Oscar in long races for big money on big tables in the recent past. So he obviously plays great. he did play horrible last night (by his standards), I'm guessing he would agree with that.

I agree he didn't seem to chase cup points this year (which I don't blame him because its expensive), but I don't think that has any negative bearing on his "chemistry" with the team (not sure why you think that). I believe he is good friends with several members of team USA and fully expect him to be a contributing member of the Mosconi Cup in the future.

pmac666
10-24-2017, 11:21 AM
I get what you are saying, and I don't know the financials, but it seems to me that if you are having to pay your way to big, overseas tournaments, where there is a good chance you won't even break even unless you win, then you have to weigh the feasibility of even going. I mean, when you play pool, and it costs you money instead of making money, isn't it then just an expensive hobby that you are really good at, and not a profession??

Maybe some of these guys need to start a go fund me for tourney costs...seems like folks will start a go fund me for anything nowadays:rolleyes:

yeah i understand that thinking, he takes the easy way winning some regional bartourneys instead of going the hard way and thats cool, if it is for him, lazy azz as i am, i fully understand that take........ buuuut theres also the competetive poolplayer in me, who would work and travell his azz off blessed with that much talent, and at all costs, no regrets when losing money on the way for trying to bark with the dogs to become maybe one of them.......but hey, we in old europe grew up playing for cups, not for money (maybe one of the countless reasons we took over)

pmac666
10-24-2017, 11:24 AM
There aren't lots of big table events in the U.S with big fields so you don't see him a lot in those for sure.

As far as being overrated... He offered the United States, like everyone here (except Shane) 10 games going to 100 and has had no takers as of yet (that I am aware of). He has also tortured Jason Shaw and Oscar in long races for big money on big tables in the recent past. So he obviously plays great. he did play horrible last night (by his standards), I'm guessing he would agree with that.

I agree he didn't seem to chase cup points this year (which I don't blame him because its expensive), but I don't think that has any negative bearing on his "chemistry" with the team (not sure why you think that). I believe he is good friends with several members of team USA and fully expect him to be a contributing member of the Mosconi Cup in the future.

i dont say he is bad for chemistry, the situation would be bad for chemistry when JB gets a spot and someone like oscar doesnt......
and for the gambling offer, isnt it much more interresting who is all excluded from that offer? no asians, no shanes and the euros wouldnt play anyways......so, theres not much left and im very unsure if he would give jayson 10 games as of today lol

jasonlaus
10-24-2017, 12:03 PM
i dont say he is bad for chemistry, the situation would be bad for chemistry when JB gets a spot and someone like oscar doesnt......
and for the gambling offer, isnt it much more interresting who is all excluded from that offer? no asians, no shanes and the euros wouldnt play anyways......so, theres not much left and im very unsure if he would give jayson 10 games as of today lol


More like Shaw giving him 10 games

RailBird's
10-24-2017, 01:32 PM
More like Shaw giving him 10 games

He beat Shaw badly not that long ago. I watched

jasonlaus
10-24-2017, 02:15 PM
He beat Shaw badly not that long ago. I watched

Been quite a while

RailBird's
10-24-2017, 02:38 PM
Been quite a while

In case you haven't noticed, Jason has not been actively seeking another beat down. It was bad the first time

Dognit
10-25-2017, 12:23 AM
JB is the real deal.

Ive seen lots, come and go.

Its unfortunate that the pool climate wont allow more tournaments and bigger payouts to support national level skill.

Its also unfortunate that he is judged poorly based upon what I consider sound business strategy.

Maybe one of you tightwads ought to sponsor Mister Bergman.

Hes got it all. Business sense, uber pool talent, education, charm, boyish looks, humility and hes polite. Pretty much a sponsors dream.

marek
10-25-2017, 01:04 AM
He beat Shaw badly not that long ago. I watched

The match between JS and JB took place 2 years ago when JS was on the rise halfway from good pro to great pro. JS 2015 edition would need AT LEAST 20 games on the wire from JS 2017 edition in the race to 100.

terryhanna
10-25-2017, 01:15 AM
The match between JS and JB took place 2 years ago when JS was on the rise halfway from good pro to great pro. JS 2015 edition would need AT LEAST 20 games on the wire from JS 2017 edition in the race to 100.
Then it should be a even match now Justin beat Shaw by 21 games when they played last time lol

marek
10-25-2017, 03:03 AM
Then it should be a even match now Justin beat Shaw by 21 games when they played last time lol

I havent said otherwise:wink: but i have this feeling that js would overpower jb this time even though these superlong matches are not Jaysons cup of tee i guess..:)

jasonlaus
10-25-2017, 05:26 AM
In case you haven't noticed, Jason has not been actively seeking another beat down. It was bad the first time

Make sure to contact me if they play again, you can get a few thousand down on JB
Jason