PDA

View Full Version : Would this piss you off??


1pRoscoe
11-15-2006, 07:17 AM
So I came up with a design that I really wanted to have done last year... I emailed my specs to a few different cue makers and found one that I wanted to go with. It's actually my turn, I was notified that the forearm is complete and the cue will be done in a few months... I'm happy about that, it's been a little over a year!!

Then I see this...... First cue.

http://new2youqs.com/cues/miscellaneous5.html

Andy Gilbert was the one that I almost went with after he quoted the time/cost for this design. Looks like he decided to go ahead and make it anyways! I will say he did do one more and added diamonds to the points that I didn't want in the first place, but isn't it a tad ironic that the cue I wanted him to build but never went forward with him magically appears around the same time?

oops, wrong forum...

HouseMan
11-15-2006, 07:34 AM
Would this piss you off?

yes it would.

letsroll
11-15-2006, 08:06 AM
I had the same thing happen to me. I ordered a one of a kind design that I designed my self. My cue finally arrived and the inlays were not centered up correctly .. since Andy's wife is now doing his inlays.
Later I saw my one of a kind design on another cue. I hope the work was better on the copy than it was on mine. I'll never order another or recommend Andy's work

TheBook
11-15-2006, 08:17 AM
If it is exactly the same color veneers, and type of wood, rings and everthing else except the diamonds I think that I would call the cuemaker and ask why he had to copy my design and if he would want me to design cues for him. Apparently a few other people lliked it. The buyer and Andy.

Otherwise it looks like a basic window cue to me. That design has been around for ages. It reminds me of a Gina 11C. If anyone should be pissed I think it would be Ernie.

JoeyInCali
11-15-2006, 08:55 AM
OT but are the dashes supposed to be centered with the windows?
If he did steal your design, that's tacky imo.

nick serdula
11-15-2006, 09:06 AM
Sunset veneers with mitered sunset boxes. I really see nothing new there. It reminds me of one of my scrugs cues a little and I have had people tell me they had other cues including very old Palmers that looked just like it.



http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j138/nickserdula/IM000017.jpg



Well I guess that would be two sunset veneer patterns!
The one on the right will be sold soon! I just have to talk myself into selling it. I have bought it back two times now.
Nick

raemondo
11-15-2006, 09:08 AM
Aren't there just ~so many designs and veneer color combinations you can choose from? Your design doesn't seem complex, although I can see the coincidence you are talking about.

Also, I thought Gilbert also made flame veneer ebony cues, but without the inlays....whose design would that be?

I would call up Gilbert and ask him about it.

1pRoscoe
11-15-2006, 09:14 AM
I don't doubt that it is considered a simple design, but how many veneered windows does he/has he done? Timing is just a bit odd, which is my point... not to mention flame, ebony on ebony, wrap choice, etc..

I will say I wanted a ss joint, he used ivory.... wow....

MOJOE
11-15-2006, 09:30 AM
Hey 1p..

That cue that you are referring to was a special order by myself. I told Andy EXACTLY how I wanted the cue, and it came out just as I requested. I know that the design and colors have been used before but he only did as I requested. I ordered the cue over a 18 months ago and received it recently. I sold it shortly thereafter for personal reasons.
Just wanted to let you know that your ideas had nothing to do with Andy's production of this cue.
Strictly coincidental.

Peace, Joe

So I came up with a design that I really wanted to have done last year... I emailed my specs to a few different cue makers and found one that I wanted to go with. It's actually my turn, I was notified that the forearm is complete and the cue will be done in a few months... I'm happy about that, it's been a little over a year!!

Then I see this...... First cue.

http://new2youqs.com/cues/miscellaneous5.html

oops, wrong forum...

1pRoscoe
11-15-2006, 09:38 AM
Hey 1p..

That cue that you are referring to was a special order by myself. I told Andy EXACTLY how I wanted the cue, and it came out just as I requested. I know that the design and colors have been used before but he only did as I requested. I ordered the cue over a 18 months ago and received it recently. I sold it shortly thereafter for personal reasons.
Just wanted to let you know that your ideas had nothing to do with Andy's production of this cue.
Strictly coincidental.

Peace, Joe

Hell of a coincidence, but thanks for the post.... I asked about 14 months ago..

SphinxnihpS
11-15-2006, 09:56 AM
Which make YOU the copycat, Ross!:p

1pRoscoe
11-15-2006, 09:57 AM
Which make YOU the copycat, Ross!:p
Dammit...... Maybe you're right.... Guess I'll have to change the butt up a bit, as the cue is still in progress...

bigpocket
11-15-2006, 10:00 AM
I had a cue maker want to charge me $800 to put 1 of 1 on a cue I designed myself!!!! I thought that was nut's being the cue only costed me $775 to make it for me.:mad:

1pRoscoe
11-15-2006, 10:02 AM
I had a cue maker want to charge me $800 to put 1 of 1 on a cue I designed myself!!!! I thought that was nut's being the cue only costed me $775 to make it for me.:mad:
Have Dale Perry make it for you... I'm sure he'll put 1/1 for ya... :D

tinpin90
11-15-2006, 10:03 AM
Ok I read your post and I can see the possibiity of the coinsidence on the timing of this cue. However Andy has been building this cue for over 5 years now. I know this becuase I designed, drew it up, and mailed it to Andy. I had about 10 variations of this cue over the past five years. I've had 4,5, and 6 pointers and a couple of SW designs crossovers. So even though this looks just like your cue it was probably already on order by another cue buyer.

Andy has about a year wait for his cues right now. I just received my orders about a month ago.

Even though your ebony on ebony design was a custom order unless something is really radical about the design. I dont think you can blame the cuemaker for remaking the cue for another buyer. I mean there are only so many designs that can be built. Andy is one the most reasonably priced cuemakers out there for the quality of his work. All of Andy inlays are manually inlayed with a manual pantagraph machine. Andy does not use any computer assisted equipment in his shop.

I am sorry you had a bad experience with your cue.

Jeff

cueaddicts
11-15-2006, 10:10 AM
Ros,,

No, it wouldn't. That's a very standard design, and he's done many other cues that were very close. We had him do those ring sets on the first flame pronged ebony on ebony cue, and since they look so great, they've become a common element from him on cue with that setup (flame veneers with ebony and/or tulipwood). He's done upwards of 10-20 by now.

Andy has built a lot of cues over the last 5 years....things with these standard designs are bound to get repeated. That's just the odds.

If it were a real unusual design, then I would have an issue with it.

Just my thoughts.....

Sean

1pRoscoe
11-15-2006, 10:13 AM
Ros,,

No, it wouldn't. That's a very standard design, and he's done many other cues that were very close. We had him do those ring sets on the first flame pronged ebony on ebony cue, and since they look so great, they've become a common element from him on cue with that setup (flame veneers with ebony and/or tulipwood). He's done upwards of 10-20 by now.

Andy has built a lot of cues over the last 5 years....things with these standard designs are bound to get repeated. That's just the odds.

If it were a real unusual design, then I would have an issue with it.

Just my thoughts.....

Sean
That was kind of my stance on it as well, just was unsure if I was upset over it or not... I hadn't seen mitered veneers from him, especially that close to what I was wanting to do at the time.... Must just be coincidence..

:o

cueaddicts
11-15-2006, 10:19 AM
I had the same thing happen to me. I ordered a one of a kind design that I designed my self. My cue finally arrived and the inlays were not centered up correctly .. since Andy's wife is now doing his inlays.
Later I saw my one of a kind design on another cue. I hope the work was better on the copy than it was on mine. I'll never order another or recommend Andy's work

Hey hatchetman, nice 1st post.

If you wanted perfection, you should have spend $5000-$10000 and gotten yourself a Gina or Manzino. BTW, it's not very uncommon for cuemakers wives to be involved in the process....I can think of 5-6 right off. Vickie's doing better inlay work that many others who are doing their own.

One thing's for sure, you got a hand-made cue, not one where somebody plugged in the CNC, hit enter, and took their smoke break !!!

Sean (loves it when some chicken shit with an agenda pulls out the one post steamroll and doesn't sign their name.....)

Rich R.
11-15-2006, 10:21 AM
Dammit...... Maybe you're right.... Guess I'll have to change the butt up a bit, as the cue is still in progress...
Although there is nothing truly unique about your design, and I'm sure, in this case, it was produced independantly, you may have gotten a small taste of the "design theft" that Jimbo was harping about some time ago.

Just imagine, if your design was truly unique, and the same thing happened. :eek:

cueaddicts
11-15-2006, 10:22 AM
That was kind of my stance on it as well, just was unsure if I was upset over it or not... I hadn't seen mitered veneers from him, especially that close to what I was wanting to do at the time.... Must just be coincidence..

:o

Yeah....he wasn't doing them before. We kind of got him doing some of those mitered veneer boxes about 4-5 years ago. Turns out he did them so nice and clean that a lot of people liked the look and started ordering them. The way he does them is right up there with the best.....

ibuycues
11-15-2006, 10:24 AM
1P,

I live not far from Andy, and own several of his cues. I have seen many, many of his cues. Mitered veneers is not a late-breaking new development, nor is the flame pattern for the veneers.

I can understand why your antenna would go up, but I would firmly be in the camp that he didn`t copy a thing. As Sean said, he has been doing this design and coloring for years.

His quality of work is top notch, and he just had 2 of his cues selected for the Grand Collection at the Stroud ICCS show in Las Vegas.

IMO,

Will

bigpocket
11-15-2006, 11:21 AM
Have Dale Perry make it for you... I'm sure he'll put 1/1 for ya... :D

LMFAO now that is funny!!!!!:D :D

letsroll
11-15-2006, 11:48 AM
Cueaddicts...Just because you buy his cues wholesale and sell them on your web site dosen't mean they are top notch cues.
It's in your interest to build them up.
I've owned cues from just about every cue maker out there and I know good work when I see it.. and mine was crap. The inlays were not even centered up in the points and those cheap 20 thousandths veneers that he uses had black stains all over the holly veneers where the ebony bled over into them.
Contrary to what you may believe you are not the only one who knows any thing about cues . I have been buying and selling them for over 20 years myself.
Cue makers seem to be the only occupation that can never be criticized for there shoddy workmanship.
I don't need to criticize anyone to do a hatchetjob. I'm just not afraid to tell it like it is.

zeeder
11-15-2006, 12:57 PM
I was shopping a design around about 6 months ago and have to admit I would be quite upset if I saw the cue come out from one of the makers I sent the design to. The cue is in progress now and I've purposefully kept the design under wraps, with the exception of a select few, so that I don't see the design from another maker before I get mine!

1pRoscoe
11-15-2006, 01:00 PM
I was shopping a design around about 6 months ago and have to admit I would be quite upset if I saw the cue come out from one of the makers I sent the design to. The cue is in progress now and I've purposefully kept the design under wraps, with the exception of a select few, so that I don't see the design from another maker before I get mine!
Don't worry, Zeed, I've already sent that pic to Barry and it's in the works... :)

zeeder
11-15-2006, 01:06 PM
Don't worry, Zeed, I've already sent that pic to Barry and it's in the works... :)

Damn you! I called Barry and he told me no dice. :( Oh well...:rolleyes:

alpine9430
11-15-2006, 01:08 PM
Don't worry, Zeed, I've already sent that pic to Barry and it's in the works... :)
Or did you mean D. Perry? :D
Only go to DP when you want 1/1

zeeder
11-15-2006, 01:17 PM
Or did you mean D. Perry? :D
Only go to DP when you want 1/1

I'm sure I could get my design done for a small fraction of what I'm paying if I went to DP but I've already lost a decent amount of money on a couple of his cues so I don't think I'll be repeating that mistake!

alpine9430
11-15-2006, 01:28 PM
I'm sure I could get my design done for a small fraction of what I'm paying if I went to DP but I've already lost a decent amount of money on a couple of his cues so I don't think I'll be repeating that mistake!
After seeing what the cue looks like for Scott from a design you assisted on, I am patiently waiting to see your design.
I am sure it will be equally as creative.

Myron

zeeder
11-15-2006, 01:44 PM
After seeing what the cue looks like for Scott from a design you assisted on, I am patiently waiting to see your design.
I am sure it will be equally as creative.

Myron

In all fairness, I did little with the design other than photoshopping it to give Scott an idea of what it would look like. Also, Scott's design is more unique than mine is. My design is a relatively simple spin on a classic design. I am quite excited about it nonetheless! I will probably have some progress pictures here in a couple of months with the cue being finished some time in the middle of next year.

skins
11-15-2006, 01:44 PM
I had a cue maker want to charge me $800 to put 1 of 1 on a cue I designed myself!!!! I thought that was nut's being the cue only costed me $775 to make it for me.:mad:

i see nothing wrong with that at all. even though it was your "idea" the maker still has to draw out the design, make templates or code and the layouts for the inlay work to be created that you want done. do you think it's right that he spend the extra time and extra money needed to "recreate" your thoughts and not be able to reuse what took him much time to create without charging you for his time and efforts? also if the cue was simple and had no inlay work and was just say a simple 4 point 4 veneer cue with standard ring work the only way he would sign something like this one of one without charging for it is if the cue was so hideous to him that he would never or make it again period. there are too many possible opportunities that could arise that he could satisfy another customer with either the same simple work or work he had to recreate on his dime. imo if you want one of one you have to pay for it.

zeeder
11-15-2006, 01:50 PM
i see nothing wrong with that at all. even though it was your "idea" the maker still has to draw out the design, make templates or code and the layouts for the inlay work to be created that you want done. do you think it's right that he spend the extra time and extra money needed to "recreate" your thoughts and not be able to reuse what took him much time to create without charging you for his time and efforts? also if the cue was simple and had no inlay work and was just say a simple 4 point 4 veneer cue with standard ring work the only way he would sign something like this one of one without charging for it is if the cue was so hideous to him that he would never or make it again period. there are too many possible opportunities that could arise that he could satisfy another customer with either the same simple work or work he had to recreate on his dime. imo if you want one of one you have to pay for it.

As far as I'm concerned, if I come up with a unique design I own the design and the cuemaker should not reuse said design without my permission. It's just like any other copyright as far as I can figure. As far as the cost goes, the cuemaker should quote a price and then stick to that price after it has been quoted. If it's a unique design it should be quoted on it's merits not on whether the cuemaker can reproduce as many copies as he likes. Just my thoughts and feelings on the subject.

skins
11-15-2006, 02:39 PM
As far as I'm concerned, if I come up with a unique design I own the design and the cuemaker should not reuse said design without my permission. It's just like any other copyright as far as I can figure. As far as the cost goes, the cuemaker should quote a price and then stick to that price after it has been quoted. If it's a unique design it should be quoted on it's merits not on whether the cuemaker can reproduce as many copies as he likes. Just my thoughts and feelings on the subject.

that's all well and good but see that's my point exactly also. if you come up with a "unique" design then of course that will be figured in the cost of the cue and shouldn't be used again i'm not arguing that. maybe i wasn't clear in my previous post i'm talking about the use of non unique inlay work like, diamonds, dots, lines, boxes, veneer colors ect.... that are grandfathered in for all cue makers to use not what you would see us or others like, manzino, herceck, black ect...... do because they would put those costs into the cue if they knew they're making a one of one. i don't know of any maker that will make a low to mid priced cue that has no "unique" design work that wouldn't charge extra for it's status as 1 of 1? besides the scenario i've already explained in my previous post. i hope this explains my thoughts.

zeeder
11-15-2006, 03:02 PM
that's all well and good but see that's my point exactly also. if you come up with a "unique" design then of course that will be figured in the cost of the cue and shouldn't be used again i'm not arguing that.

Sorry, I guess what confused me was when you said:

Do you think it's right that he spend the extra time and extra money needed to "recreate" your thoughts and not be able to reuse what took him much time to create without charging you for his time and efforts?

To me, this implies that it is not a standard cue as he would likely already have the templates/code to perform the cue. If it's a standard cue with just your preferred veneer combination and some diamonds or whatever then it's a little nonsensical to ask the cuemaker to not duplicate it.

skins
11-15-2006, 03:09 PM
If it's a standard cue with just your preferred veneer combination and some diamonds or whatever then it's a little nonsensical to ask the cuemaker to not duplicate it.
i think that this was probably the case in the post i responded too but it's just a hunch. sorry for the confusion. :)

tinpin90
11-15-2006, 03:34 PM
LetsRoll,

I am am confused. Are you saying that the only reason Cueaddicts is saying that Andy Gilbert builds a good cue is to get everyone to buy his cues and therfore you would be saying that Cueaddicts has alterior motives to his statements. If this is the case then I guess no one should say anything because well if someone that has bought over 100 of these cues over the past eight years has no true credtials to say that, then who does? And if he has bought this many cues from this guy, wouldn't you think the cues are pretty good? I mean for a reseller to invest so much into this one cuemaker? Besides it looks like he has been buying from all of the top cuemakers in the country. So he looks like he knows what he is talking about. Unfortunaltely the trueth is you cant please everyone. I think Andy's Work is Awesome. Over the past few years I have owned over a dozen of his cues and I have never had one problem with the cues construction, finish or playability.

By the Way.
My name is Jeff and I am a Cueaddict!:eek:

cueaddicts
11-15-2006, 04:56 PM
Cueaddicts...Just because you buy his cues wholesale and sell them on your web site dosen't mean they are top notch cues.
It's in your interest to build them up.
I've owned cues from just about every cue maker out there and I know good work when I see it.. and mine was crap. The inlays were not even centered up in the points and those cheap 20 thousandths veneers that he uses had black stains all over the holly veneers where the ebony bled over into them.
Contrary to what you may believe you are not the only one who knows any thing about cues . I have been buying and selling them for over 20 years myself.
Cue makers seem to be the only occupation that can never be criticized for there shoddy workmanship.
I don't need to criticize anyone to do a hatchetjob. I'm just not afraid to tell it like it is.

Whoever you are,

You know, what you have said here in this reply has absolutely zero to do with your post and even shows more that you are someone with little credibility. Wallah....here you are and this is your first post on AZ....or maybe just another ID and you are really someone else. Who cares really, but the issue here is the way you did this hatchet-job.

Whether we or any other dealer might have an arrangement with Andy or anyone else has absolutely no bearing on your post or position. It's a simple fact that Andy's cues are among the best you can get for the money. There's really no debate there....argeement among consumers abounds.

Does Andy make a mistake here and there? Sure...he's human and so are other cuemakers. But I can tell you personally that Andy has stood behind whatever issue I've had with a cue in the past. Same if it was one of our customers. He's always gone above and beyond the call of duty to resolve any issues. That leads me to believe that either you bought the cue and then didn't contact him about your issue, or you did and you were a royal *****. Who knows....and I surely don't care.

Yes, cuemakers can be fairly criticized, but the underhanded manner in which this was done tells me you have little credence.

I'm glad that you aren't afraid to "tell it like it is" but apparently you are afraid to tell us all your name. So, since you've been around cues for 20+ years, who are you ?

Sean

runscott
11-15-2006, 05:05 PM
That was kind of my stance on it as well, just was unsure if I was upset over it or not... I hadn't seen mitered veneers from him, especially that close to what I was wanting to do at the time.... Must just be coincidence..

:o

Now I know what you are up to Ross - you want to look good on the Dr. Cue's webcam!!!

1pRoscoe
11-15-2006, 05:08 PM
Now I know what you are up to Ross - you want to look good on the Dr. Cue's webcam!!!I declare shenanigans....

btw - I'll be back on Sun.

Worminator
11-15-2006, 05:16 PM
So I came up with a design that I really wanted to have done last year... I emailed my specs to a few different cue makers and found one that I wanted to go with. It's actually my turn, I was notified that the forearm is complete and the cue will be done in a few months... I'm happy about that, it's been a little over a year!!

Then I see this...... First cue.

http://new2youqs.com/cues/miscellaneous5.html

Andy Gilbert was the one that I almost went with after he quoted the time/cost for this design. Looks like he decided to go ahead and make it anyways! I will say he did do one more and added diamonds to the points that I didn't want in the first place, but isn't it a tad ironic that the cue I wanted him to build but never went forward with him magically appears around the same time?

oops, wrong forum...


Wow...I can't believe I completely missed this thread.

As Joe said, He ordered that cue in like, May of '04. I played some pool with him at his house when he told me about the idea he had for the cue. This was indeed a complete coincidence that it was the same design idea. As others have said, it is not all that original anyway. It's a very nice design, but all the components have been done before.

skins
11-15-2006, 05:22 PM
One thing's for sure, you got a hand-made cue, not one where somebody plugged in the CNC, hit enter, and took their smoke break !!!



you mean like manzino, herceck, stroud, gina, cognoscenti, josey, black, mcworter, wayne, arthur, mottey, chudy, drexler ect.......

Worminator
11-15-2006, 05:22 PM
Cueaddicts...Just because you buy his cues wholesale and sell them on your web site dosen't mean they are top notch cues.
It's in your interest to build them up.
I've owned cues from just about every cue maker out there and I know good work when I see it.. and mine was crap. The inlays were not even centered up in the points and those cheap 20 thousandths veneers that he uses had black stains all over the holly veneers where the ebony bled over into them.
Contrary to what you may believe you are not the only one who knows any thing about cues . I have been buying and selling them for over 20 years myself.
Cue makers seem to be the only occupation that can never be criticized for there shoddy workmanship.
I don't need to criticize anyone to do a hatchetjob. I'm just not afraid to tell it like it is.


That post is completely uncalled for, especially from a first time poster with no credibility on the forum. You can find flaws with any cuemaker if you look hard enough, but Andy is very well respected among his peers and in the industry. He has a very loyal following of players and collectors. And no...I am not a Gilbert dealer. I have owned some of his cues and they have all be of the finest quality and craftsmanship.

1pRoscoe
11-15-2006, 05:24 PM
you mean like manzino, herceck, stroud, gina, cognoscenti, josey, black, mcworter, wayne, arthur, mottey, chudy, drexler ect.......
OH BULLSHIT!!!!



Joel doesn't smoke... :p

and Worminator... I was looking about the same time for the same cue from the same cuemaker... you cannot say you don't see the uncanny similarity, which is my surmation...

tinpin90
11-15-2006, 05:27 PM
Ros,

Sorry we got off the subject there. I hope your not upset about the other cue that your post was originally about. I am sure there was no underhandedness involved.

My congratulation on your taste though. That is a great looking cue. Here is another variation of the cue that I drew up and had made a few years ago. It is the forth cue down.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/tinpin90/Cueaddicts102904.jpg


Enjoy.
Jeff

:cool:

skins
11-15-2006, 05:41 PM
OH BULLSHIT!!!!



Joel doesn't smoke... :p

and Worminator... I was looking about the same time for the same cue from the same cuemaker... you cannot say you don't see the uncanny similarity, which is my surmation...

that's funny. :)

cueaddicts
11-15-2006, 05:45 PM
you mean like manzino, herceck, stroud, gina, cognoscenti, josey, black, mcworter, wayne, arthur, mottey, chudy, drexler ect.......


.....just a figure of speech ;)

letsroll
11-15-2006, 06:48 PM
Cueaddicts,
You say.. does Andy make mistakes here and there? .. and then you say sure he does. That is what I said. Then you say he has always worked with you to resolve any issues.
I say if there are issues with the cue he should take care of it before he sends it out.
After you wait a year for a cue you shouldn't have to send it back for repair as soon as you get.
Are you saying Andy can't inspect a cue before he sends it out?
If he can.. and he's such a great cue maker .. why can't he see the flaws before he sends it out.. or does he hope you won't notice and just accept it.. since you have waited soooo long for it.
I'm standing by my statement that my 2000.00 cue was flawed and he knew it, and sent it to me anyway.. hoping I wouldn't know the difference.

cueaddicts
11-16-2006, 10:39 AM
Cueaddicts,
You say.. does Andy make mistakes here and there? .. and then you say sure he does. That is what I said. Then you say he has always worked with you to resolve any issues.
I say if there are issues with the cue he should take care of it before he sends it out.
After you wait a year for a cue you shouldn't have to send it back for repair as soon as you get.
Are you saying Andy can't inspect a cue before he sends it out?
If he can.. and he's such a great cue maker .. why can't he see the flaws before he sends it out.. or does he hope you won't notice and just accept it.. since you have waited soooo long for it.
I'm standing by my statement that my 2000.00 cue was flawed and he knew it, and sent it to me anyway.. hoping I wouldn't know the difference.


Man, grow some stones and come on out........

BTW, here's a newsflash for you. Every cuemaker makes some mistakes here and there. Things sometimes have to get fixed. Cues that are built by humans are inherently imperfect, especially inlay work done on a manual pantograph. I've seen a LOT of cues and I'm not sure any of them were "perfect". And one man's perception of quality work may differ from another's. That goes for cuemakers, too.

What I can certainly tell you from my experience is that not everyone can be pleased or satisfied. Since you choose to hide behind your 3 measly posts regarding this with no other input on the forum boards and not laying out the facts or images of said cue for readers to review, that tells me that you are one of these people. I'm glad you are standing behind your statement, but the manner in which you have brought this to light sheds light on your personable credibility.

letsroll
11-16-2006, 01:47 PM
Cueaddicts,
This thread started off with someone complaining that Andy Gilbert had copied their cue design.
I posted that the same thing had happened to me and that the cue was shipped to me with the inlays not even centered up properly in the points .
You came to Andy's defense and attacked me because it was my first post on this forum.
I don't see why how many post I've posted has anything to do with the truth.
You have a vested interest in defending Andy so you can unload those so called custom cues you have of his.. that you are always marking down after they don't sell.
Well here is my 4th post and I say if he doesn't copy other people designs and ideas .. how about why does he copy Bill Schicks pin design? You know where Bill puts the little ivory tip on his pin.
I have never seen this before Bill did it.. and now Andy copies it.
Now .. argue that for Andy.
You also say he makes a good cue for the money. What does that mean?
He doesn't make a good cue if they cost a little more.
Either they are good cues.. made well.. or they're not.
I wouldn't want my cues sold on the basis that they are good for the money.. which means if you want a really good cue go to somone else and pay more so the inlays will be centered up in the points because Andy's wife uses a manual pantograph.

Cornerman
11-16-2006, 02:10 PM
You have a vested interest in defending Andy so you can unload those so called custom cues you have of his.. that you are always marking down after they don't sell. I think the way you write some of your statements are too passive aggressive and shows an overall lack of respect to whomever you're talking about. Of course people are going to get defensive. Surely you can understand that with such few posts, but a lot of aggressive wording, you're going upset a few people.


Well here is my 4th post and I say if he doesn't copy other people designs and ideas .. how about why does he copy Bill Schicks pin design? You know where Bill puts the little ivory tip on his pin. He asked Bill for permission. And Bill granted it. I can name a few other cuemakers who have done the same thing. I.e., saw a really cool unique idea, and asked the cuemaker for permission. Then there are the other cuemakers who have flat out stolen the ideas. That's not what Andy Gilbert has done.



Either they are good cues.. made well.. or they're not.
I wouldn't want my cues sold on the basis that they are good for the money.. which means if you want a really good cue go to somone else and pay more so the inlays will be centered up in the points because Andy's wife uses a manual pantograph. Now you're getting irrational. Andy Gilbert's cues are great cues. Do people need to explain like you're in 3rd grade that his cues sell for less money than other cues of the same quality? And these passive attacks on Vicki is absolutely disgraceful.

I think you should have stayed banned.

Fred

Cues
11-16-2006, 03:39 PM
Cueaddicts,
This thread started off with someone complaining that Andy Gilbert had copied their cue design.
I posted that the same thing had happened to me and that the cue was shipped to me with the inlays not even centered up properly in the points .
You came to Andy's defense and attacked me because it was my first post on this forum.
I don't see why how many post I've posted has anything to do with the truth.
You have a vested interest in defending Andy so you can unload those so called custom cues you have of his.. that you are always marking down after they don't sell.
Well here is my 4th post and I say if he doesn't copy other people designs and ideas .. how about why does he copy Bill Schicks pin design? You know where Bill puts the little ivory tip on his pin.
I have never seen this before Bill did it.. and now Andy copies it.
Now .. argue that for Andy.
You also say he makes a good cue for the money. What does that mean?
He doesn't make a good cue if they cost a little more.
Either they are good cues.. made well.. or they're not.
I wouldn't want my cues sold on the basis that they are good for the money.. which means if you want a really good cue go to somone else and pay more so the inlays will be centered up in the points because Andy's wife uses a manual pantograph.



By cueaddicts reasoning, if you have a lot of postings (even self-serving ones) then you're more knowledgeable than those with fewer. Some would disagree with that.
I've owned two of Gilbert's cues and they both went through the hands of cueaddicts. When I purchased them (neither directly from cueaddicts), both were new and unused and both had workmanship issues that I wouldn't expect from cues priced at more than $1000.00 (cueaddicts prices). Fortunately I bought low and was able to move them but I wouldn't buy more.
If Gilbert has a years waiting list, why does cueaddicts have so many of his cues that they appear to have had for a while? But, maybe it's just a failure to update their website.
Bryan Mordt and Mike Capone build cues in the same price range but you don't see their cues laying up and unsold in dealer inventories to the same extent as the Gilberts at cueaddicts.
This has nothing to do with the playability of Gilbert's cues. I've never hit a ball with one but I do believe that if you are paying $1000.00 and up for a cue, you're spending most of that money on aesthetics and if there are clear issues with the craftsmanship, then you're not getting value for your dollars.
His cues may play great but with so many good cues on the market today, I prefer those that tend to hold their value a little better.
This certainly is not a comment on Andy Gilbert, the person. By all that I have read or heard, he is a good and fine man and the issues that I have seen with a few of his cues are more of a lack of attention to detail than anything else. He unquestionably has the knowledge and experience to build a fine cue but does he have the discipline to "make firewood" of some that probably should not leave his shop? I'm sure that all cuemakers make mistakes and perfection is seldom if ever reached, but I believe that the better/best cuemaker's pride of creation will guide them correctly.
Cueaddicts, as a dealer, clearly has their agenda and I understand that but I see a lot of very knowledgeable people on this forum and not many will be overcome by smoke blown their way.

cueaddicts
11-16-2006, 08:39 PM
Ross, I've got to give it to you.....you really know how to draw out the nut-jobs. Do you ever get the feeling that our society's gene pool is rapidly becoming depleted. Bummer. :(

letsroll (or whoever in heck you are), email me pictures of your cue. If you're so unhappy with it, I may just offer to buy it from you. Since you obviously know our site, then I presume you can get my email address from there.

Cues, thanks for presuming to know any of our business. I must say, though, you really haven't a clue. You also don't have much of a clue about Andy's cues from reading your post.

Oh, well, enough fun for now....Later guys.

Sean

1pRoscoe
11-17-2006, 06:49 AM
Ross, I've got to give it to you.....you really know how to draw out the nut-jobs. Do you ever get the feeling that our society's gene pool is rapidly becoming depleted. Bummer. :(

I aim to please, Sean... ;)

ScottR
11-17-2006, 06:50 AM
In all fairness, I did little with the design other than photoshopping it to give Scott an idea of what it would look like. Also, Scott's design is more unique than mine is. My design is a relatively simple spin on a classic design. I am quite excited about it nonetheless! I will probably have some progress pictures here in a couple of months with the cue being finished some time in the middle of next year.
"Simple", yes, maybe, I dunno. But, what a cool modification it is! :cool:

Zeeder is correct, in that I had a few design ideas, but lacked the technical ability to put them together and see how the entire cue would look. He did that for me (see the photoshop below) and Jim White took that, made a few suggestions and I couldn't be more pleased with the end result.

p.s. Sorry, Ross, for hijacking your thread. At least this hijack is not a flame war!