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cuetechasaurus
11-16-2006, 03:53 AM
I was playing my friend some 14.1 today, and I was forced to bridge over some obstructing object balls very tediously. I carefully tried to place my fingers in between some balls, and my finger brushed an object ball I was bridging over, and it moved like an inch. I turned to him and told him that I moved the ball I was bridging over, and pointed to the spot where it was, asking him if I should leave it or put it back. He is kind of a loudmouth and started shouting that it's a foul to touch a ball. I figured that with straight pool it's just like standardized pool rules, where if you touch a ball with your bridge hand, your opponent has the option to leave it there or put it back where it was. Instead of arguing, I relinquished my turn and took a point of my total score. What is the standard rule on this? I am not talking about pro tournament rules, just standard rules for the game. It kind of irritated me, because I was on a run of 22, and the rack was wide open, I felt I could have had a decent run there. Either way, I want to verify this rule so I will know for sure next time.

I forgot to add, that he also thinks of himself as an 'old time' player. He says that accidentally touching a ball like I did is a foul in 'old time' rules also. Can someone shed some light on this also?

skins
11-16-2006, 04:28 AM
check here,

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_141.shtml

it also says "Except when clearly contradicted by these additional rules, the General Rules of Pocket Billiards apply". if you go to the general rules and read about "cue ball fouls only" it's pretty interesting what they say about the presence or not of a referee.

Gerry
11-16-2006, 05:22 AM
You did the right thing cue! we always played cue ball fouls only, which meant if you nudged a ball you told the guy and He could put it back or leave it, and I played with the oldest of old schoolers! Sounds like this guy was pissed you were running balls on him. Old school or not, make sure you both set the rules before the next game.

So, did you win, and how much?:D

Gerry

Stones
11-16-2006, 05:40 AM
Would Mr. Bob Jewett please step forward and give us a ruling, please?

jay helfert
11-16-2006, 05:50 AM
I was playing my friend some 14.1 today, and I was forced to bridge over some obstructing object balls very tediously. I carefully tried to place my fingers in between some balls, and my finger brushed an object ball I was bridging over, and it moved like an inch. I turned to him and told him that I moved the ball I was bridging over, and pointed to the spot where it was, asking him if I should leave it or put it back. He is kind of a loudmouth and started shouting that it's a foul to touch a ball. I figured that with straight pool it's just like standardized pool rules, where if you touch a ball with your bridge hand, your opponent has the option to leave it there or put it back where it was. Instead of arguing, I relinquished my turn and took a point of my total score. What is the standard rule on this? I am not talking about pro tournament rules, just standard rules for the game. It kind of irritated me, because I was on a run of 22, and the rack was wide open, I felt I could have had a decent run there. Either way, I want to verify this rule so I will know for sure next time.

I forgot to add, that he also thinks of himself as an 'old time' player. He says that accidentally touching a ball like I did is a foul in 'old time' rules also. Can someone shed some light on this also?

Tech,

14.1 rules have always been different than 9-Ball. This is one game where "fouls on all balls" has always been the standard. Sorry.

14oneman
11-16-2006, 06:51 AM
Well I have certainly played in my fair share of amateur 14.1 tourny's in my life, and I've seen more pro 14.1 events than I care to remember, and I have NEVER seen or played 14.1 where it wasn't FOULS ON ALL BALLS. :eek:

cuetechasaurus
11-16-2006, 07:24 AM
You did the right thing cue! we always played cue ball fouls only, which meant if you nudged a ball you told the guy and He could put it back or leave it, and I played with the oldest of old schoolers! Sounds like this guy was pissed you were running balls on him. Old school or not, make sure you both set the rules before the next game.

So, did you win, and how much?:D

Gerry

Yea he was pissed because he was losing. He's a friend of mine, but he's got a huge ego. He is a 'C' player but talks like he is an 'A'. It was kind of funny how our game transpired. Normally him and I just play 9-ball or one pocket, real cheap, like $5 per game 9ball or $10 per game 1-hole. I give him a big spot in 9ball, but in one pocket we play even since I don't know the game and he knows alot of moves. Anyways, I was playing another friend some 14.1 for the table time, race to 100. The loudmouth walks in, and right when he walks in the door, he sees me miss a shot. He starts talking crap real loud so everyone can hear. He does this all the time, and he is actually only joking, but he doesn't realize that he is the most obnoxious person that goes into that poolroom. So he starts being his normal obnoxious self, watching my my game from the bar, and saying out loud all the mistakes I make, etc etc. I'm the quiet type, so I just smile and ignore him.

After a while I get a little annoyed with him, and he happens to say "man I would love to teach this kid a lesson in straight pool"- very loud. I get up off my shot and look at him, and half smiling I say "how much you wanna play for?" This draws some "Ooooooooh"s from other regulars. Then he says "whatever you wanna play for". Since he is a friend (albeit an obnoxious one), I make it cheap and say race to 100 for $20 and table time. Of course he can't back down, his ego is way too big for that. To make a long story short, he unscrewed when he was losing 28 to 90, saying that continuing was "pointless". He started complaining about a sore wrist that he hurt the other day, saying that's the reason why he 'wasn't playing good' (even though he always plays bad).

I am glad to say that the only lesson he taught me about straight pool is that all balls foul. I think I have a good joke to say to him next time I see him :D

And thanks for those of you who clarified the rules for me, I'll keep this in mind.

I do have to ask again, for standard play (NOT tournament rules), all balls foul? This rule seems kind of trivial to me, since in standard play there is no ref, and some nit could call a foul on another guy because it looked like he brushed a ball (even though it didn't move).

PALMERJOHN
11-16-2006, 07:32 AM
Hey cue, I agree with jerry. Your friend must be a weak
player if he has to resort on calling a foul on such a
mistake.

CaptainHook
11-16-2006, 07:46 AM
he unscrewed when he was losing 28 to 90, saying that continuing was "pointless".

Forefit:D

As far as the ruling: I have played a ton of 14.1 in my life and if you did
touch or brush a ball, you simply put it back and continue.:)

Williebetmore
11-16-2006, 08:21 AM
I was playing my friend some 14.1 today.....

Saurus,
Traditional championship 14.1 has always been played with "all ball fouls." Our straight pool league has always been "all ball fouls" (no referee's either). I always prefer to play "all ball fouls" as it significantly adds to the pressure/excitement near the end of a long game. Your friend has the right idea about the spirit of the old school game - and a true old school player will call all such fouls on himself.

Having said all of that; the actual "rules" of any match are WHATEVER YOU AGREE UPON - you need to hash that stuff out BEFORE you play. I do play a regular 14.1 game with a top pro - who prefers to play cue-ball fouls only, despite being a true student of the game.

Fast Lenny
11-16-2006, 10:10 AM
I always play straight foul on all balls along with straight pool and one pocket, i think 9 ball should be played the same way but most people dont play it like that only a few tourneys i have seen on tv do,it makes it more difficult to make a shot when bridging over a ball if you know if you hit it then its a foul.;)

tedkaufman
11-17-2006, 07:30 AM
In non-refereed matches, it's pretty hard to play all ball fouls. The problem comes when you get to the fringe--what happens if an item of clothing touches but does not move a ball? Who calls the foul? I think it's pretty clear how quickly that scenario could get out of hand. Agreeing to cue ball fouls only is the only practical alternative.

ScottR
11-17-2006, 08:20 AM
I learned and have always played "all balls fouls" in 14.1.

VIProfessor
11-17-2006, 08:38 AM
It seems clear, after a review of the rules, that it is cue ball fouls only unless the match is being presided over by a referee. Besides, I think it is the common sense approach. It prevents attempts by opposing players to unjustly end a run by claiming, for example, that your sleeve or your tie brushed a ball. It would be good if all competitors followed the code and treated pool like the gentlemen's (and women's) game that it is meant to be. In the real world, however, I think it is better to suffer an accidentally touched object ball than to end innings based on calls (by a financially interested or ego invested party) that cannot be verified.