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View Full Version : THE BOTTOM LINE - Is the IPT DEAD ? Yay or Nay ?


Bigbro66
11-16-2006, 07:24 AM
The focus of the forum in recent times has quite rightly been on the payment or lack of it and the checks.

But given what has happened, can we safely say that the IPT is dead ? Can there no longer be any more tournaments which the big names would play in given the total rape of the goodwill ?

Snapshot9
11-16-2006, 07:34 AM
in tales from the crypt, A hand is sticking out of the grave .... grasping .....grasping .... lol

billlaur
11-16-2006, 08:06 AM
Stick A Fork In The Ipt,they Are Done.....

memikey
11-16-2006, 09:30 AM
Roadie.....I doubt that you would have such an objectively favourable opinion of his sincerity if you were listening to the words uttered in his Reno address to the players in the hindsight light of what we now know he knew at the time he made that address.Hang on to that NA Open recording that you are listening to since along with his address to the players at Reno and several other items it's been long ago wiped from it's previous pride of place in the IPT website in a systematic purging of every spoken or written KT/IPT reference to "guarantees" and promises,including those made to the aspiring qualifier entrants as well as to card holders.

We do not have to travel very far down Cynical Street to recognise that swift purging of website information as the action of someone who feels he has said or written things which may damage his defence in any forthcoming legal case and the action of someone who is hoping those who did not follow IPT developments closely might forget some of those details.

Icode12
11-16-2006, 10:11 AM
The IPT is not done. It won't be done until they give up and say that's it no more tournaments, no more money. OR until they are legally forced to quit or are shut down for the inablity to satisfy the judgement against them.

I am listening to Trudeau's address at the NA Open. You know, for someone who is such an egomaniac and supposedly the world's biggest huckster, he is sure spending a lot of time to talk rationally to the players about the format of the tournament. Not trying to be a Trudeau apologist here, just trying to be fair.

He spends a lot of time going through the things that one would think that Mr. Andrews or his assistant would go through.

I mean Trudeau sounds really sincere and not as hyped as he does on the informercials. I have to think that listening to him here is that he is sincere about this venture but as we see, has perhaps reached a lot further than he thought he could.

It is my observation that if this whole thing is just a scam then Trudeau could have have gone about it in a wholly different way. He could have gotten people hooked on qualifiers for a lot less expense and effort.

It just seems to me that Trudeau has spent a LOT of money and a LOT of time to set the IPT up and that he doesn't want to see the investment wasted.

Granted, he owes 3 million, or technically 2.6ish. Listening to him I get the impression that he truly believes in the IPT concept as he thought of it and will do whatever he can to realize it. So no, the IPT is not dead, perhaps on some kind of intravenous drip but still breathing.

Roadie, I believe you are correct. The IPT is certainly ALIVE, and if people were TRULY concerned about the players they would try and come up with real solutions instead of trying to break it down even more with damaging statements and deeds.

And of course no one agrees with the way that the Reno event was handled as far as payouts are concerned, but everyone even NON-IPT members have to admit that this tour is the best tour that has ever happened to pool.

Can anyone say that they have competed in a tournament and didn’t even get to the second round and made $2000- $5000?? I don’t think that they can.

As far as Uniting, a UNION in my opinion would be to come together as members to save your futures in the IPT not to let others (NO offence to anyone) lead you to attorneys that are just going to take your money and have you in litigations for years. The time and energy spent on something like that could be better spent on trying to get your futures in the IPT working again.

jimmyg
11-16-2006, 11:59 AM
How about temporarily on life support with KT at the controls?

With all respect due those who are hard at work fighting, at their own expense, to try and bring some justice and unity to the players. Unfortunalely, my honest feelings are that it has been mostly done in vain.

The history of pool and the nature of it's professional players make attempts at their unity of will and purpose almost impossible.

I believe that KT is a disease in the body of pool and has to be surgically removed in order for pool to have any chance for respectability. I also believe that he has singlehandily set back any possibility of that happening for a least another decade.

KT was on the ropes, he could have been terminated and pool freed from his parasitic influence had the players the strength and will to make the very difficult choices necessary to accomplish this end. That would have meant having the strenght to file suit against him. He would have been forced into either paying them in full, or having to file for bankruptsy and defending himself criminally and civilly. I believe that had the players taken a hardball stand either 1) they would have forced a much better financial deal for themselves, or, 2) they would have beaten him in court and, ultimately had won even more in court.

The catch was that they would have had to refuse any payments that KT offered and totally refused to play on any future tournaments that he claimed were to be held. Severing ties with KT is the key.

Instead, the players have showed KT that they are willing, not only to accept 11% payments and promises, but also a willingness to support and participate on any future tour this snake decides to hold. Basically they immediately dropped their pants for 11%. And don't think KT doesn't thank them for it.

Look, I understand that I, am not in the player's shoes and that makes it very easy for me to take this verbal position, but that still does not invalidate it either.

So, is the IPT dead? It is whatever KT decides it is. KT has all the options, he will gauge the income from qualifiers, possible sales, will restructure player and vendor debt, and decide whether or not to hold future tournaments. They players will be there if he calls, and he knows it.

In my opinion, this is the unfortunate reality.

Jim

Da Poet
11-16-2006, 04:33 PM
But given what has happened, can we safely say that the IPT is dead ?


No, but we can safely say that the IPT is in a coma.

Dr. Dissent
11-16-2006, 04:42 PM
But given what has happened, can we safely say that the IPT is dead ?


It's on life support until Dec 31, 2006.:D

Handsumm
11-16-2006, 04:52 PM
I hate to say it, but I think we will all find out that Trudeau pulled a fast one on us. I hope it won't die, but I believe it's over.

Nick B
11-16-2006, 11:30 PM
Dead Dead Dead Dead

Fleece3
11-17-2006, 02:28 AM
The focus of the forum in recent times has quite rightly been on the payment or lack of it and the checks.

But given what has happened, can we safely say that the IPT is dead ? Can there no longer be any more tournaments which the big names would play in given the total rape of the goodwill ?


I would say it is done except for one thing....We have yet to hear from the PLAYERS. While a host of people on this forum speak their mind, for and against the IPT. I have not heard any thoughts from the people that really matter...The Players. Cause, while it is entertaining to read everyones remarks, if the IPT came to our city tomorrow, we would all be there. PRAYING for a final 6 consisting of Efren, Earl, Busta, Archer, Alex and Ralf.

Roy Steffensen
11-17-2006, 08:50 PM
There is a saying that says a person is not dead as long as people are talking about them. So as long as we are discussing the IPT - it's not dead.

So Elvis is still alive??? Memphis here I come!!!!!!!! :cool:

Craig Fales
11-18-2006, 06:51 AM
Give it up Roadie....even if KT were to have a tournament now one in there right mind would show up...these people still entering qualifiers need to get educated...
________

steveharn
11-18-2006, 12:09 PM
If K-Doh wanted to do something to show his sincerity he might step in and help pump up the Derby City Classic. Greg I'm sure stepped out on a limb for th ITP. The DCC has the potential to be a world class tourney. So K-Doh, do something to help the sport and through all your support to the DCC.

NYC cue dude
11-18-2006, 06:04 PM
How about temporarily on life support with KT at the controls?

With all respect due those who are hard at work fighting, at their own expense, to try and bring some justice and unity to the players. Unfortunalely, my honest feelings are that it has been mostly done in vain.

The history of pool and the nature of it's professional players make attempts at their unity of will and purpose almost impossible.

I believe that KT is a disease in the body of pool and has to be surgically removed in order for pool to have any chance for respectability. I also believe that he has singlehandily set back any possibility of that happening for a least another decade.

KT was on the ropes, he could have been terminated and pool freed from his parasitic influence had the players the strength and will to make the very difficult choices necessary to accomplish this end. That would have meant having the strenght to file suit against him. He would have been forced into either paying them in full, or having to file for bankruptsy and defending himself criminally and civilly. I believe that had the players taken a hardball stand either 1) they would have forced a much better financial deal for themselves, or, 2) they would have beaten him in court and, ultimately had won even more in court.

The catch was that they would have had to refuse any payments that KT offered and totally refused to play on any future tournaments that he claimed were to be held. Severing ties with KT is the key.

Instead, the players have showed KT that they are willing, not only to accept 11% payments and promises, but also a willingness to support and participate on any future tour this snake decides to hold. Basically they immediately dropped their pants for 11%. And don't think KT doesn't thank them for it.

Look, I understand that I, am not in the player's shoes and that makes it very easy for me to take this verbal position, but that still does not invalidate it either.

So, is the IPT dead? It is whatever KT decides it is. KT has all the options, he will gauge the income from qualifiers, possible sales, will restructure player and vendor debt, and decide whether or not to hold future tournaments. They players will be there if he calls, and he knows it.

In my opinion, this is the unfortunate reality.

Jim

Hardly have truer words been spoken on thisforum regarding the ipt.

The current situation is EXACTLY as jimmyg states it.

Out of the 150 current ipt players, i will guestimate that 50% just want thier money and want nothing more to do with the ipt. I have also found that there is no correlation to the players abilities. This sentiment can be found covering the entire spectrum of all pro's.

What surprised me is that there is a contingency of US players, mainly, that feel that the ipt is a once in a lifetime chance. At this point, they are not optomistic, feel that they probably wont be paid in full, but that they shouldn't be "forcing" kt into bankruptcy, because doing that extinguishes ANY hope.

I was dissapointed to hear this, because ultimately, without a larger percentage of players on board, it doesnt seem fair to act "against" these players wishes.

As an example.

It only takes 3 or 4 players to file suit. Can we do that TODAY, yes. Somewhere down the line, as more aggrieved players step forward, or file thier own suits individually, the court would be asked to transform the suit into class action status, folding all current litigation and aggrieved parites into one all encompassing suit.

If this was done today, everything stops. As long as there are players, that are well respected amongst their peers, and billiard community as a whole, that want to extend EVERY opportunity to the ipt, we will honor their wishes, even ove the wishes of those that would like to see action taken now.

Pool players have a sad and long history of not being able to carry the same flag. In the end blackjack dave sapolis was COMPLETELY right.

The ball is in the ipt's court right now. Hopefully they will honor their promises. They will atleast get the opportunity to do so.

rg

TheOne
11-18-2006, 07:13 PM
Hardly have truer words been spoken on thisforum regarding the ipt.

The current situation is EXACTLY as jimmyg states it.

Out of the 150 current ipt players, i will guestimate that 50% just want thier money and want nothing more to do with the ipt. I have also found that there is no correlation to the players abilities. This sentiment can be found covering the entire spectrum of all pro's.

What surprised me is that there is a contingency of US players, mainly, that feel that the ipt is a once in a lifetime chance. At this point, they are not optomistic, feel that they probably wont be paid in full, but that they shouldn't be "forcing" kt into bankruptcy, because doing that extinguishes ANY hope.

I was dissapointed to hear this, because ultimately, without a larger percentage of players on board, it doesnt seem fair to act "against" these players wishes.

As an example.

It only takes 3 or 4 players to file suit. Can we do that TODAY, yes. Somewhere down the line, as more aggrieved players step forward, or file thier own suits individually, the court would be asked to transform the suit into class action status, folding all current litigation and aggrieved parites into one all encompassing suit.

If this was done today, everything stops. As long as there are players, that are well respected amongst their peers, and billiard community as a whole, that want to extend EVERY opportunity to the ipt, we will honor their wishes, even ove the wishes of those that would like to see action taken now.

Pool players have a sad and long history of not being able to carry the same flag. In the end blackjack dave sapolis was COMPLETELY right.

The ball is in the ipt's court right now. Hopefully they will honor their promises. They will atleast get the opportunity to do so.

rg

Randy,
This is not suprising to hear but maybe all the players would unite behind asking KT to put his OWN promises into a legally binding contract? This is the kind of thing Dave said they needed from the start and was correct. I don't know what situtation the players union reached but hopefully this is at least possible? From there it would be a relatively simple step to approach KT as one and demand he put his promises into a legally binding contract. For too long the communication between the IPT and the players has been 1 way traffic.

Craig Fales
11-18-2006, 08:12 PM
"Right Mind" is subjective as we know. Some might say, perhaps some with far more resources than Trudeau, that no one in their "right mind" would throw away millions of dollars gambling on a pool tour. The question was asked if the IPT is "dead". The answer is that it is not yet dead either figuratively or literally.

If Trudeau held a tournament today then a lot of players would show up. Fans would be attending, people would pay money to sign up and watch it on the internet. Why? Because the game is what the attraction is for those folks, not the personality of the promoter. Do people and participants not show up at boxing matches because Don King is involved? No one ever really questions how the prize money in a boxing match is truly structured, what the payout terms are, who gets what cut and so on..... at least it isn't front page news if they do.

Arenas are filled, pay-per-view subscriptions are sold based on one thing, the people want to be entertained. If the IPT can provide that then they will come out of the self-induced coma they are in. If not then they will surely die in the most literal sense.


Don King probably pays his bills too....;)
________

justnum
11-18-2006, 08:12 PM
I was at the derby classic and the IPT event being hosted their just reminded me of

when someone opens a deli and then next week theres a new deli across the street and they sell everything the other guy doesn't, or its cheaper, or some gimmick.

It sounds like a tour that would be successful is designed by both players and promoters. What those designs include maybe a little less flair and more shine.

cuetique
11-18-2006, 09:11 PM
Not dead, but mortally wounded. We may in fact be seeing a persistent vegetative state now -- nothing but DVD sales and streaming video subscriptions.

jimmyg
11-18-2006, 10:22 PM
Hardly have truer words been spoken on thisforum regarding the ipt.

The current situation is EXACTLY as jimmyg states it.

Out of the 150 current ipt players, i will guestimate that 50% just want thier money and want nothing more to do with the ipt. I have also found that there is no correlation to the players abilities. This sentiment can be found covering the entire spectrum of all pro's.

What surprised me is that there is a contingency of US players, mainly, that feel that the ipt is a once in a lifetime chance. At this point, they are not optomistic, feel that they probably wont be paid in full, but that they shouldn't be "forcing" kt into bankruptcy, because doing that extinguishes ANY hope.

I was dissapointed to hear this, because ultimately, without a larger percentage of players on board, it doesnt seem fair to act "against" these players wishes.

As an example.

It only takes 3 or 4 players to file suit. Can we do that TODAY, yes. Somewhere down the line, as more aggrieved players step forward, or file thier own suits individually, the court would be asked to transform the suit into class action status, folding all current litigation and aggrieved parites into one all encompassing suit.

If this was done today, everything stops. As long as there are players, that are well respected amongst their peers, and billiard community as a whole, that want to extend EVERY opportunity to the ipt, we will honor their wishes, even ove the wishes of those that would like to see action taken now.

Pool players have a sad and long history of not being able to carry the same flag. In the end blackjack dave sapolis was COMPLETELY right.

The ball is in the ipt's court right now. Hopefully they will honor their promises. They will atleast get the opportunity to do so.

rg

Thanks, Randy. I was a little concerned that my opinion would not be taken in the same pro player spirit that it was intended, and I greatly appreciate your agreement.

I firmly believe every word that I wrote, especially that "KT is a disease in the body of pool and has to be surgically removed in order for pool to have any chance for respectability". Although many players agree and feel that the lawsuit is absolutely necessary, as long as there are several players that choose to hold onto this impossible dream rather than go forward with the lawsuit, as you properly stated, you are, unfortunalely, left with little choice and not move forward.

I've always agreed with David's (Blackjack's) position as well.

Jim

!Smorgass Bored
11-19-2006, 05:05 AM
It's as clear as the nose on your face, that the IPT is falling apart.

Doug
( It's DEAD, it's feet are nailed to the perch. "It's not dead, it's only RESTING" )

Nick B. takes the IPT out of the cage and thumps its head on the counter ("Hellooo, Polly!"), then tosses it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor without reacting in any way. Jake remains unconvinced, claiming that it is now stunned, and that it is "pining for the fjords."

Nick B. points out that the only reason that the IPT had been sitting on its perch in the first place was that it had been nailed there. Jake counters that it was simply to stop it from 'postponing' tournaments. Nick B. disagrees in these words:

Nick B.: It's not pinin', it's passed on! This IPT is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! This is a late IPT. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace, if you hadn't nailed it to the perch it would be pushing up the daisies! It's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! This is an ex-IPT !
Jake admits defeat, claims that he is right out of IPTs, and offers a 10-ball ring game as replacement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Blue_parrot

Doug
( an oldie but a goodie )