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Kevin
11-19-2006, 08:05 PM
When was the last time anyone, say you? --really-- played rotation?

I played a game tonight, and wasn't quite sure whether fouls got BIH or in the kitchen, so I consulted my ancient 1997 BCA rules book, and got a bit of a surprise.

Not ball in hand, not behind the head string (unless cueball scratch), instead you can accept the shot as is, or, put your opponent back in. Not to forget the consecutive 3-foul loss rule. Opponent botched things up with bad position? No problem just put him back in for his second foul, then administer the coup de grace.

Position play is more demanding than any other game, creativity required on either offense or defense is key. No wonder the Philipino players are position, kick, and safety monsters. Rotation makes 9-ball look like pocket billiards for dummies with the training wheels still on.

Beginners may find it tedious, but advanced players can mine a strategically rich battlefield if the balls are laying tough for an outright runout.

SlickRick_PCS
11-19-2006, 08:28 PM
You're right there, Kevin.
Rotation is a sport that I find very intellectual and exciting. Unless there is no scorekeep of any sort, then the game just gets quite dull. Efren "Bata" Reyes was said to easily run out 2 racks of this game on an early morning television show. Imagine, playing a full rack and trying to score 61 pts. out of rotation and to try to keep your position sharp. That is keen stuff. Best part of all this is when your opponent puts you in safe, you gotta find a way to either hit the next lowest ball or "cheat" him out.
[another thing for those others that are gonna want to find this game interesting, if you have the guts, I recommend not to use the jump technique in this game; increase that challenge!]

GADawg
11-19-2006, 09:56 PM
Can somebody, perhaps one our Pinoy friends, post a summary of the rules for rotation?

Roy Steffensen
11-19-2006, 10:24 PM
Rotation Rules

Rotation is a low ball first game, so the balls must be struck in numerical order. The goal is to reach 61 points (which numerically eliminates your opponent). This is a good game for intermediate to advanced players. Beginners should try Fifteen Ball.

Rack

Fifteen balls in a triangle with the one ball in front, the two and three balls in the corners and the fifteen ball in the middle.

Break

Open break required. Failure to do so gives opponent choice of accepting table in position or re-racking and breaking.

Valid Shot

Pocket any ball in any pocket without a foul to continue at the table.

Scoring

The point value on the ball is scored. All balls pocketed without a foul are counted. If the score is tied when the last ball is pocketed the current shooter is awarded an extra tie breaking point.

Spotting Balls

All balls pocketed on a foul shot and balls off table are spotted.

Penalty for Fouls

Opponent has choice of the table in position or requiring the shooter to shoot again with the table in position.

Three Foul Penalty

Three consecutive fouls is loss of game.

Strategy

Play for the big points. Early in the game look for combinations or billiards on the high numbered balls.

It is much easier to win Rotation by the three foul rule than most other games. Look for opportunities to hook your opponent early in the rack.

Schon-desi
11-19-2006, 10:42 PM
Can somebody, perhaps one our Pinoy friends, post a summary of the rules for rotation?
Local rotation rules differ slightly from what Roy has stated in his reply. They don`t allow jump shots(even with playing cue), they don`t apply 3-foul loss rule, and when foul is committed, except for scratch, incoming player has option to play the balls as is or spot the object ball and shoot from anywhere behind the headstring. In case of scratch, cueball is to be shot from headstring or if object ball is also behind the headstring, it is spotted.

JoeyInCali
11-19-2006, 10:43 PM
Can somebody, perhaps one our Pinoy friends, post a summary of the rules for rotation?
It's played differently in the islands.
No ball in hand or have the other re-shoot.
On scratches, the cueball is placed anywhere in the kitchen. If the object ball is in the kitchen, it is spotted.
On fouls, shooter can shoot as it lays or have the ob spotted with cueball anywhere in the kitchen.
Somehow even with spotty rules, there's no problem with it in the islands when I was there. Nobody shoots another ball to the pocket so that when the lowest numbered ball is spotted, there'd be another ball behind it. Nobody does that.

GADawg
11-19-2006, 11:08 PM
Rotation Rules

Rotation is a low ball first game, so the balls must be struck in numerical order. The goal is to reach 61 points (which numerically eliminates your opponent). This is a good game for intermediate to advanced players. Beginners should try Fifteen Ball.

Rack

Fifteen balls in a triangle with the one ball in front, the two and three balls in the corners and the fifteen ball in the middle.

Break

Open break required. Failure to do so gives opponent choice of accepting table in position or re-racking and breaking.

Valid Shot

Pocket any ball in any pocket without a foul to continue at the table.

Scoring

The point value on the ball is scored. All balls pocketed without a foul are counted. If the score is tied when the last ball is pocketed the current shooter is awarded an extra tie breaking point.

Spotting Balls

All balls pocketed on a foul shot and balls off table are spotted.

Penalty for Fouls

Opponent has choice of the table in position or requiring the shooter to shoot again with the table in position.

Three Foul Penalty

Three consecutive fouls is loss of game.

Strategy

Play for the big points. Early in the game look for combinations or billiards on the high numbered balls.

It is much easier to win Rotation by the three foul rule than most other games. Look for opportunities to hook your opponent early in the rack.

Roy -

Thanks. One question. Does legal shot/hit require a ball(CB or OB) to hit a rail after the lowest numbered ball is struck with the CB same as 9 Ball and other games?

Rep points to you.

SlickRick_PCS
11-19-2006, 11:42 PM
Roy -

Thanks. One question. Does legal shot/hit require a ball(CB or OB) to hit a rail after the lowest numbered ball is struck with the CB same as 9 Ball and other games?

Rep points to you.

Sorry, I ain't Roy nor I ain't fillipino, but normally, if you do not hit a rail with either a cueball or object ball, it is an illegal shot foul and it is passed to your opponent. HOWEVER, your opponent has an option to either take the shot or pass. If your opponent passes the shot, then you do not have the obligation of a pass and must take the shot. But remember... 3 strykes and you're out!

GADawg
11-19-2006, 11:51 PM
It's played differently in the islands.
No ball in hand or have the other re-shoot.
On scratches, the cueball is placed anywhere in the kitchen. If the object ball is in the kitchen, it is spotted.
On fouls, shooter can shoot as it lays or have the ob spotted with cueball anywhere in the kitchen.
Somehow even with spotty rules, there's no problem with it in the islands when I was there. Nobody shoots another ball to the pocket so that when the lowest numbered ball is spotted, there'd be another ball behind it. Nobody does that.

This is similar to how I played as a kid in the US. Is the 3 foul rule used there?

One thing you got good at playing this game was spot shots.

Schon-desi
11-20-2006, 12:59 AM
Here in Manila, we have what is known as a `Local Rule`, if the cue ball hits rail first before hitting the object ball, no balls have to contact the rail anymore. Its considered a good shot. However, `international rule` on good hits can be applied if it is stated before start of a game.

Roy Steffensen
11-20-2006, 01:10 AM
incoming player has option to play the balls as is or spot the object ball and shoot from anywhere behind the headstring. In case of scratch, cueball is to be shot from headstring or if object ball is also behind the headstring, it is spotted.

In second thoughts, the few times I have played Rotation I have played with this rule, that the incoming player can choose to spot the object ball and have ball in hand behind the headstring.

tfdr
11-20-2006, 05:34 PM
what is good about rotation is also the many options of winning more often nobody knows it except the player.
preparation for big combinations to get to the high point ball is often the case.

4ball
11-21-2006, 01:46 PM
These rules were posted in one of the earlier threads. Can anyone (from Philippines, perhaps) confirm what rules they use for safeties?
----------
Rotation requires that the cue ball contact the lowest numbered object ball first on each shot; any ball pocketed on a legal shot counts. It is not neccessary to call balls or pockets. Rotation is a formidable test of a player's imagionation, shot-making ability and repertoire. Few games require more exact position play.

Players:
2 or more.

Balls Used:
Standard set of object balls 1-15, plus cue ball.

The Rack:
Standard triangle rack with the 1-ball on the foot spot, 2-ball on the right rear corner, 3-ball on the left rear corner, and 15-ball in the center. All other balls placed entirely at random.

Object of the Game:
To score balls of greater total points value than the opponent(s).

Scoring:
Each legally pocketed object ball has a point value equal to its number. When a player's point total mathematically eliminates an opponent(s) from outscoring him (61 points in a two-player game), the game is ended. If two or more players tie for highest point total after all 15 object balls have been pocketed, the tied player who legally pocketed the last object ball is credited with an extra tie-breaking point and wins the game.

Opening Break:
The starting player must (1) make an open break, or (2) legally pocket an object ball. If failing to do so, the incoming player has the choice of (1) shooting with cue ball in hand behind the head string and object balls in position, or (2) having the balls reracked and shooting the opening break shot.

Rules of Play:
1. A legal shot requires that the cue ball's first contact be with the lowest numbered ball on the table. A player must then (1) pocket a numbered ball, or (2) cause the cue ball or any numbered ball to contact a cushion. Failure to do so is a foul.

2. A legally pocketed ball entitles a shooter to remain at the table until failing to pocket a ball on a legal shot. If necessary, a player is permitted only two legal safeties played by merely hitting that object ball (only) to the near cushion.

3. When a player legally pockets a ball, he must shoot again. The shooter can't call a safety and spot a legally pocketed object ball.

4. When a player has the cue ball in hand behind the head string (as after a scratch) and the legal object ball is also behind the head string, the object ball may be spotted on the foot spot upon request.

5. It is a loss of the game if a player commits three successive fouls. In more than a two player game, balls pocketed by disqualified players remain off the table.

Illegally Pocketed Balls:
All spotted.

Object Balls Jumped Off the Table:
All spotted. The stroke is a foul, and the penalty for fouls is followed.

Cue Ball After Jumping off the Table or Scratch:
Incoming player has cue ball in hand behind the head string.

Penalty for Fouls:
No point penalty. Incoming player has the option of (1) accepting the balls in position, or (2) requiring offending player to shoot again with the table in position (if cue ball is in hand behind the head string it is so for either player).

Rules taken from Billiards: The Official Rules and Records Book, 2004 Edition (visit www.bca-pool.com for more information)

Andrew Manning
11-21-2006, 02:34 PM
I play it in Virtual Pool 3 fairly often because it challenges my creativity, which makes it a lot of fun for me. The trouble is I don't have a very fine touch to my positional play in that game (fine speed control is very tough to accomplish, especially trying to draw or follow a short but precise distance), and so I can't run balls with finesse and positional control. I end up hitting the low ball really hard and hoping something drops a lot, or shooting off-the-wall banks and kicks. I'd like to take it up against human opponents in non-virtual (I guess that makes it actual) pool, but nobody plays it around here.

-Andrew

iapoolguy
11-21-2006, 10:58 PM
These rules were posted in one of the earlier threads. Can anyone (from Philippines, perhaps) confirm what rules they use for safeties?
----------
Rotation requires that the cue ball contact the lowest numbered object ball first on each shot; any ball pocketed on a legal shot counts. It is not neccessary to call balls or pockets. Rotation is a formidable test of a player's imagionation, shot-making ability and repertoire. Few games require more exact position play.

Players:
2 or more.

Balls Used:
Standard set of object balls 1-15, plus cue ball.

The Rack:
Standard triangle rack with the 1-ball on the foot spot, 2-ball on the right rear corner, 3-ball on the left rear corner, and 15-ball in the center. All other balls placed entirely at random.

Object of the Game:
To score balls of greater total points value than the opponent(s).

Scoring:
Each legally pocketed object ball has a point value equal to its number. When a player's point total mathematically eliminates an opponent(s) from outscoring him (61 points in a two-player game), the game is ended. If two or more players tie for highest point total after all 15 object balls have been pocketed, the tied player who legally pocketed the last object ball is credited with an extra tie-breaking point and wins the game.

Opening Break:
The starting player must (1) make an open break, or (2) legally pocket an object ball. If failing to do so, the incoming player has the choice of (1) shooting with cue ball in hand behind the head string and object balls in position, or (2) having the balls reracked and shooting the opening break shot.

Rules of Play:
1. A legal shot requires that the cue ball's first contact be with the lowest numbered ball on the table. A player must then (1) pocket a numbered ball, or (2) cause the cue ball or any numbered ball to contact a cushion. Failure to do so is a foul.

2. A legally pocketed ball entitles a shooter to remain at the table until failing to pocket a ball on a legal shot. If necessary, a player is permitted only two legal safeties played by merely hitting that object ball (only) to the near cushion.

3. When a player legally pockets a ball, he must shoot again. The shooter can't call a safety and spot a legally pocketed object ball.

4. When a player has the cue ball in hand behind the head string (as after a scratch) and the legal object ball is also behind the head string, the object ball may be spotted on the foot spot upon request.

5. It is a loss of the game if a player commits three successive fouls. In more than a two player game, balls pocketed by disqualified players remain off the table.

Illegally Pocketed Balls:
All spotted.

Object Balls Jumped Off the Table:
All spotted. The stroke is a foul, and the penalty for fouls is followed.

Cue Ball After Jumping off the Table or Scratch:
Incoming player has cue ball in hand behind the head string.

Penalty for Fouls:
No point penalty. Incoming player has the option of (1) accepting the balls in position, or (2) requiring offending player to shoot again with the table in position (if cue ball is in hand behind the head string it is so for either player).

Rules taken from Billiards: The Official Rules and Records Book, 2004 Edition (visit www.bca-pool.com for more information)

Can you explain the reason for this rule?
Terry

GADawg
11-22-2006, 01:59 AM
Can you explain the reason for this rule?
Terry

Only thng I can figure is so that you cannot call a safety, make the ball, and leave the CB where your opponent will be hooked after the pocketed ball is spotted.

Samiel
04-12-2007, 08:43 AM
This rule also exists in 9-ball. You can't call safe and make the 1-ball. If you make a ball, you have to keep on shooting.

GADawg
04-12-2007, 09:39 AM
Like 9 ball, it is not a call shot game so if a ball goes in after legal contact, it counts and you shoot again.

BCA and World Standard Rules 8 ball is however a call shot game, so you have the option of calling a safety before pocketing a ball rather than doing the foolish looking thing of calling the ball in a different pocket from the one where you make it and saying " Oops." I've never played APA 8 ball but I understand that it is not call shot game and there again , any ball that goes in after a legal hit is legally pocketed and it is the shooters turn to shoot again.