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Cameron Smith
11-19-2006, 10:10 PM
At the risk of putting myself up for scrutiny, I just think someone should say some of you guys need to chill out here.

This entire forum seems to be 90% a flame forum, 5% informative (thank you Eydie, Timberly, Colin, Linda, NYCcuedude etc.) and 5% useless stuff.

I am absolutely shocked at how many people have been banned in such a short period of time. I don't mean to say that Mike has been too authoratarian though. He gave everyone fair warning and some people have chose not heed it.

AZB is the only forum I participate on, primarily because I have, for the most part, been very impressed that this is a forum of adults who act as such (most of the time). But I have kept from posting on this sub-forum because recently it has become an extreme exception to the rule.

So just think before you post something. If you don't agree with what somebody said, you don't need to be insulting in your response! If you truly believe the person you are debating with is an idiot, then stop debating! You will not win if you continue, and posting insulting comments only makes you look bad.

For the record if anyone feels the urge to flame me. I will not respond. Just a warning in advance.

That's all I got to say.

Respectfully
Cameron Smith

cueball1950
11-19-2006, 10:15 PM
At the risk of putting myself up for scrutiny, I just think someone should say some of you guys need to chill out here.

This entire forum seems to be 90% a flame forum, 5% informative (thank you Eydie, Timberly, Colin, Linda, NYCcuedude etc.) and 5% useless stuff.

I am absolutely shocked at how many people have been banned in such a short period of time. I don't mean to say that Mike has been too authoratarian though. He gave everyone fair warning and some people have chose not heed it.

AZB is the only forum I participate on, primarily because I have, for the most part, been very impressed that this is a forum of adults who act as such (most of the time). But I have kept from posting on this sub-forum because recently it has become an extreme exception to the rule.

So just think before you post something. If you don't agree with what somebody said, you don't need to be insulting in your response! If you truly believe the person you are debating with is an idiot, then stop debating! You will not win if you continue, and posting insulting comments only makes you look bad.

For the record if anyone feels the urge to flame me. I will not respond. Just a warning in advance.

That's all I got to say.

Respectfully
Cameron Smith

Tap Tap Tap......Cameron, I totally agree. At 1st, i was one of the ones that disagreed with everything KT stood for and spoke out against him because a close family member bought his book and almost died from her sugar problems. But i quickly learned that it was not worth it. All i have been doing lately is having some fun with Bernie with my responses. And to also be quite honest i feel that this sub forum was getting a little out of hand with all the infighting between posters.....JMHO...........mike

!Smorgass Bored
11-19-2006, 10:24 PM
OK, I'm outta here.
Doug

sjm
11-19-2006, 10:27 PM
Cameron, yours is a very reasonable post, and your call for civility is admirable, but my figure would be far lower than your 90%.

It's easily overlooked, but the IPT has inflicted a very deep wound on pro pool's players, fans, advocates and proprietors. In many cases, I see posters getting things off their chest by being exclamatory and boisterous, but I'll cut those posters some slack, because as a group, we really are that hurt. Those few, and they are the exception, who do nothing but insult others on this forum are, as you suggest, deserving of their AZB exit visas.

I still believe that this forum is largely filled with debates and exchanges that are honest and constructive.

Roy Steffensen
11-19-2006, 10:28 PM
Well, there's nothing to talk about before the 8th of December anyway, so why can't we just shoot some balls while waiting, instead of fighting in the warzone?

KT really made us shut up with his latest move, didn't he?

I'm off for some one-pocket, see you in some weeks! (Yeah right...)

Roy Steffensen
11-19-2006, 10:31 PM
Cameron, yours is a very reasonable post, and your call for civility is admirable, but my figure would be far lower than your 90%.

It's easioly overlooked, by the IPT has inflicted a very deep wound on pro pool's players, fans, advocates and proprietors. In many cases, I see posters getting things off their chest by being exclamatory and boisterous, but I'll cut those posters some slack, because as a group, we really are that hurt. Those few, and they are the exception, who do nothing but insult others on this forum are, as you suggest, deserving of their AZB exit visas.

I still believe that this forum is largely filled with debates and exchanges that are honest and constructive.

I feel that the IPT either must die or pay up in full very soon, otherwise the poolworld will just be in a vakuum, waiting and waiting and waiting, and of course hoping... And for the players and the true lovers of the game that really hurts!

The best thing would be a quick solution, no matter what the result would be.

cueball1950
11-19-2006, 10:43 PM
OK, I'm outta here.
Doug


Please Doug......Stay around...we need a good voice of reason..:rolleyes: .......mike

sjm
11-19-2006, 10:44 PM
I feel that the IPT either must die or pay up in full very soon, otherwise the poolworld will just be in a vakuum, waiting and waiting and waiting, and of course hoping... And for the players and the true lovers of the game that really hurts!

The best thing would be a quick solution, no matter what the result would be.

I am inclined to agree, Roy.

manwon
11-19-2006, 10:50 PM
At the risk of putting myself up for scrutiny, I just think someone should say some of you guys need to chill out here.

This entire forum seems to be 90% a flame forum, 5% informative (thank you Eydie, Timberly, Colin, Linda, NYCcuedude etc.) and 5% useless stuff.

I am absolutely shocked at how many people have been banned in such a short period of time. I don't mean to say that Mike has been too authoratarian though. He gave everyone fair warning and some people have chose not heed it.

AZB is the only forum I participate on, primarily because I have, for the most part, been very impressed that this is a forum of adults who act as such (most of the time). But I have kept from posting on this sub-forum because recently it has become an extreme exception to the rule.

So just think before you post something. If you don't agree with what somebody said, you don't need to be insulting in your response! If you truly believe the person you are debating with is an idiot, then stop debating! You will not win if you continue, and posting insulting comments only makes you look bad.

For the record if anyone feels the urge to flame me. I will not respond. Just a warning in advance.

That's all I got to say.

Respectfully
Cameron Smith

Good Post, I think you have touched on a good topic, and I do not think it could have said better!!

Manwon

Da Poet
11-20-2006, 12:09 AM
At the risk of putting myself up for scrutiny, I just think someone should say some of you guys need to chill out here.




The amount of the posting and people viewing this thread is a fraction of what it was a few days and weeks ago. By all measures I would say things have chilled out quite a bit.

Things have changed a lot here especially in the last few days.

RED LITE
11-20-2006, 12:56 AM
Cameron is obviously right.

On the other hand, the outrageous nature of this IPT forum keeps me coming back. If it were a newspaper, I would buy it! Addiction probably.

Good post, Cameron. Really.

RL

Cameron Smith
11-20-2006, 01:08 AM
[QUOTE=sjm]Cameron, yours is a very reasonable post, and your call for civility is admirable, but my figure would be far lower than your 90%.
[QUOTE]

Ya, your right. But I have been known to exagerate a bit :).

Thanks for the support guys.

xidica
11-20-2006, 06:01 AM
Well, there's nothing to talk about before the 8th of December anyway, so why can't we just shoot some balls while waiting, instead of fighting in the warzone?

KT really made us shut up with his latest move, didn't he?

I'm off for some one-pocket, see you in some weeks! (Yeah right...)

TAP TAP TAP! I tell you what, you're spot on.

Why not just enjoy the game instead of ******n and moaning?

Do these fish needs cheese with the whine, and the 7 out?

jay helfert
11-20-2006, 06:22 AM
[QUOTE=sjm]Cameron, yours is a very reasonable post, and your call for civility is admirable, but my figure would be far lower than your 90%.
[QUOTE]

Ya, your right. But I have been known to exagerate a bit :).

Thanks for the support guys.

Thank you Cameron. Emotions ran high on the subject of the IPT and a few people got off on a tangent that was not productive. I have chosen not to post here for some time, because it seems like everything has been said and resaid.

It is now up to the individual players to make their own decisions about how to proceed.

Cameron Smith
11-20-2006, 11:11 AM
[QUOTE=Cameron Smith][QUOTE=sjm]Cameron, yours is a very reasonable post, and your call for civility is admirable, but my figure would be far lower than your 90%.


Thank you Cameron. Emotions ran high on the subject of the IPT and a few people got off on a tangent that was not productive. I have chosen not to post here for some time, because it seems like everything has been said and resaid.

It is now up to the individual players to make their own decisions about how to proceed.

I forgot to mention you while thanking various posters for a steady stream of useful information. I have to apologize for that.

sjm
11-22-2006, 06:03 AM
I forgot to mention you while thanking various posters for a steady stream of useful information. I have to apologize for that.

Actually, my nickname is "etc." so I thought you had included me.

sniper
11-22-2006, 01:08 PM
For the record, I've noticed things have become much more civil around here since the banning of a few posters that seemed to provoke people. Mike and Mr.Wilson certainly had their hands full for a few weeks but once they got rid of the problem posters it really seemed to solve the problem.

NYC cue dude
11-22-2006, 01:35 PM
For the record, I've noticed things have become much more civil around here since the banning of a few posters that seemed to provoke people. Mike and Mr.Wilson certainly had their hands full for a few weeks but once they got rid of the problem posters it really seemed to solve the problem.

And my understanding is that the particular poster I had a problem with had initially received a month long ban, but due to his behind the scenes behavior, the ban was reevaluated and now stands as a lifetime ban, which imo, is completely deserved and wholely appropriate.

rg

Timberly
11-22-2006, 01:49 PM
And my understanding is that the particular poster I had a problem with had initially received a month long ban, but due to his behind the scenes behavior, the ban was reevaluated and now stands as a lifetime ban, which imo, is completely deserved and wholely appropriate.

rg
I'm glad to hear it... I was dreading their return simply because of their inability to drop things. If nothing else, I know subtle (innocent looking) jabs would've continued. To give an idea of how impossible it is for this person to drop things... I deleted one of their PM's and then turned my PM's off.. in response they posted the PM they sent me. I told them that I simply didn't want anything to do with them, I didn't care what they had to say and then I put them on ignore. (they were banned later that day) After all of this, they sent me an email the other day. :rolleyes: I deleted it and blocked that email address from sending me anymore emails.

They didn't just beat a dead horse, they dug up skeletons of the horse and beat those too after the fact... all because they absolutely, without a doubt knew they were right and would not sleep until EVERYONE knew they were right (even if they weren't right). Sheesh, I'm annoyed just thinking about it again.

NYC cue dude
11-22-2006, 02:03 PM
I'm glad to hear it... I was dreading their return simply because of their inability to drop things. If nothing else, I know subtle (innocent looking) jabs would've continued. To give an idea of how impossible it is for this person to drop things... I deleted one of their PM's and then turned my PM's off.. in response they posted the PM they sent me. I told them that I simply didn't want anything to do with them, I didn't care what they had to say and then I put them on ignore. (they were banned later that day) After all of this, they sent me an email the other day. :rolleyes: I deleted it and blocked that email address from sending me anymore emails.

They didn't just beat a dead horse, they dug up skeletons of the horse and beat those too after the fact... all because they absolutely, without a doubt knew they were right and would not sleep until EVERYONE knew they were right (even if they weren't right). Sheesh, I'm annoyed just thinking about it again.

I had some similar experiences. Not only did he continue to email me directly about what HAD occured on the forum, but he even answered one of my posts, off topic, as if he was replying on the thread. He then went on to say he had someone forwarding him all the relevant az posts to him privately, when in truth, even if you are banned, you can still read the content.

I finally got rid of him by questioning his behavior as stalking. I recently sold my business, which catered to the pentagon, department of defense and department of homeland security. I still have friends there, and had them find his identity, obviously for my own protection, because who knows what a cook like that is capable of. Right JHS?

rg

memikey
11-22-2006, 10:20 PM
........ who knows what a cook like that is capable of......

rg

You wouldn't believe what my cook out here is capable of........burnt salad is one of her better efforts:)

Timberly
11-23-2006, 06:59 AM
I finally got rid of him by questioning his behavior as stalking. I recently sold my business, which catered to the pentagon, department of defense and department of homeland security. I still have friends there, and had them find his identity, obviously for my own protection, because who knows what a cook like that is capable of. Right JHS?

rg
I might need that info if you don't mind. I truly believe the man is unstable. He copied my post above, made a new screen name that I didn't know, pasted my post and then replied to me. I simply replied asking him to please seek help because he's got issues.

Jim, I mean that sincerely... not being mean, not trying to be funny. You need help. If you continue to contact me I'll do whatever it is I need to do with AOL and your local authorities to ensure that you leave me alone.

ironman
11-23-2006, 07:17 AM
I might need that info if you don't mind. I truly believe the man is unstable. He copied my post above, made a new screen name that I didn't know, pasted my post and then replied to me. I simply replied asking him to please seek help because he's got issues.

Jim, I mean that sincerely... not being mean, not trying to be funny. You need help. If you continue to contact me I'll do whatever it is I need to do with AOL and your local authorities to ensure that you leave me alone.

This sounds like a very reasonable request.

Dr. Dissent
11-23-2006, 09:28 AM
I
I finally got rid of him by questioning his behavior as stalking. I recently sold my business, which catered to the pentagon, department of defense and department of homeland security. I still have friends there, and had them find his identity, obviously for my own protection, because who knows what a cook like that is capable of. Right JHS?

rg

Hmmm, that's nice, the "big shot" using his "influences" for the wrong purposes. Your friends must also be stupid if they "catered" to your wishes.

NYC cue dude
11-23-2006, 09:38 AM
Hmmm, that's nice, the "big shot" using his "influences" for the wrong purposes. Your friends must also be stupid if they "catered" to your wishes.

Wrong purpopses. My body guard is a retired NYC cop, who's specialty was threat assesmsnts etc. he reviewed all the documentation and passed it along to his former colleagues. It was their opinion that this man might be dangerous, and I have only taken steps to protect myself.

Remember, in the pool community I am a pretty public person. I post with my own screen name, and many people in the region know specifically where i live. Of course security is all encompassing in my life, which is why the apratment i just bought is 2 full floors of a building in ny, where the elevator opens inot my apartment, so if you don't belong, you cant even get onto my floor.

Timberly, you must do everything you think is necessary to satisfy all of our own concerns.

rg

ironman
11-23-2006, 10:29 AM
Hmmm, that's nice, the "big shot" using his "influences" for the wrong purposes. Your friends must also be stupid if they "catered" to your wishes.

What are friends for? The safety of my friends will always be one of my major concerns.

Dr. Dissent
11-23-2006, 11:55 AM
Wrong purpopses. My body guard is a retired NYC cop, who's specialty was threat assesmsnts etc. he reviewed all the documentation and passed it along to his former colleagues. It was their opinion that this man might be dangerous, and I have only taken steps to protect myself.

Remember, in the pool community I am a pretty public person. I post with my own screen name, and many people in the region know specifically where i live. Of course security is all encompassing in my life, which is why the apratment i just bought is 2 full floors of a building in ny, where the elevator opens inot my apartment, so if you don't belong, you cant even get onto my floor.

Timberly, you must do everything you think is necessary to satisfy all of our own concerns.

rg

No wonder you are scared. You need body guards, and allegedly you are a "public person." You keep giving out all kinds of information about yourself, feeling "grandeur" and making sure you are "recognized" in this forum?

I don't know who you are, what you have done in the past, what you do nowadays, where you live, and whom do you know. All I can say is that it seems you definitely need to call the "attention" for yourself. You are not "prudent" and all that you "supposedly" have done for pool, seems to satisfy you more than anyone else.

Again I dont care who you are, but please stop all the "BS" about yourself.

sniper
11-23-2006, 12:15 PM
And my understanding is that the particular poster I had a problem with had initially received a month long ban, but due to his behind the scenes behavior, the ban was reevaluated and now stands as a lifetime ban, which imo, is completely deserved and wholely appropriate.

rg



Although my first post wasn't necessarily directed to that poster, I'm glad to hear that his ban will be a lifetime ban. Quite frankly, I couldn't understand why he was allowed to go on as long as he did:confused:



Dr. Dissent,

What exactly is your problem with Randy? You come out of nowhere and post an off-topic reply that was basically a personal attack on him, is there something between the two of you that I'm unaware of? or are you just being an ass?

NYC cue dude
11-23-2006, 12:41 PM
No wonder you are scared. You need body guards, and allegedly you are a "public person." You keep giving out all kinds of information about yourself, feeling "grandeur" and making sure you are "recognized" in this forum?

I don't know who you are, what you have done in the past, what you do nowadays, where you live, and whom do you know. All I can say is that it seems you definitely need to call the "attention" for yourself. You are not "prudent" and all that you "supposedly" have done for pool, seems to satisfy you more than anyone else.

Again I dont care who you are, but please stop all the "BS" about yourself.

Dr dissent,

I don't know you, don't know what your problem is with me, as i have never interacted with you on any level. With that said, all that i have stated on this forum is public knowledge in the pool community in NYC, where everybody knows me. I have been written about several times in billiards digest, and the majority of pros KNOW what i have done for pool. Because you don't, well thats not my problem. Read a little. Btw, "all I have done for pool", has all been on a donation basis, with no expactationof return on my money. what have you done? don't answer that, i know.

You are correct though, I do get a an immense level of satisfaction for the help i have offered to the sport of pool. In fact, that is all i have gotten for it.

My need for drivers, bodyguards and home security is a result of the business i recently sold, it's price and specifically what i manufactured for the military. I have a 5 year old daughter whose safety is paramount. What you deem is prudent or not isn't important. What is important is our safety, and i employ professionals for that purpose.

rg

Colin Colenso
11-23-2006, 02:21 PM
I'm glad to hear it... I was dreading their return simply because of their inability to drop things. If nothing else, I know subtle (innocent looking) jabs would've continued. To give an idea of how impossible it is for this person to drop things... I deleted one of their PM's and then turned my PM's off.. in response they posted the PM they sent me. I told them that I simply didn't want anything to do with them, I didn't care what they had to say and then I put them on ignore. (they were banned later that day) After all of this, they sent me an email the other day. :rolleyes: I deleted it and blocked that email address from sending me anymore emails.

They didn't just beat a dead horse, they dug up skeletons of the horse and beat those too after the fact... all because they absolutely, without a doubt knew they were right and would not sleep until EVERYONE knew they were right (even if they weren't right). Sheesh, I'm annoyed just thinking about it again.
I'm sure you are glad to hear it Timberly,
In one of Jim's last posts, he broke common board etiquette by posting your PM to him. A PM that contradicted your statement on this forum, that you had ingnored his PM.

Have I misunderstood this?

Colin

Timberly
11-23-2006, 03:02 PM
I'm sure you are glad to hear it Timberly,
In one of Jim's last posts, he broke common board etiquette by posting your PM to him. A PM that contradicted your statement on this forum, that you had ingnored his PM.

Have I misunderstood this?

Colin
Yes, you misunderstood. He sent me a PM while I was away from the computer. I signed on, read it, and replied politely telling him that I didn't have a problem with him except that I wish he would drop the issue about Eric since Eric had been banned.

(The PM was the first thing I did when I signed on) After that I went to the forums and there were numerous posts where he was "post stalking" me and saying negative things. At this point, I did have a problem with him and having watched his reaction to Randy & Eric, I wanted no part in his issues.

He replied to my PM and after reading his posts I didn't want to have anything to do with him so I deleted the PM and turned off my PM's. I stated this in one of the threads. To make sure I read the deleted PM, he posted the PM he sent to me.

I sent him one PM (in response to the first one) and I in no way contradicted myself. I'll be more than happy to share that PM if you do not believe me. I stated here in the forums that I sent that PM telling him I had no problem with him but after reading his posts, I now have a problem with him and that I was putting him on ignore.

Some of it is still here and some of it was deleted in the deleted thread but I assure you, I did not contradict myself in any of this. At worst I made the mistake of giving the guy the benefit of being what I would call a sane, and stable person. He proved me wrong.

Colin Colenso
11-23-2006, 03:22 PM
Yes, you misunderstood. He sent me a PM while I was away from the computer. I signed on, read it, and replied politely telling him that I didn't have a problem with him except that I wish he would drop the issue about Eric since Eric had been banned.

(The PM was the first thing I did when I signed on) After that I went to the forums and there were numerous posts where he was "post stalking" me and saying negative things. At this point, I did have a problem with him and having watched his reaction to Randy & Eric, I wanted no part in his issues.

He replied to my PM and after reading his posts I didn't want to have anything to do with him so I deleted the PM and turned off my PM's. I stated this in one of the threads. To make sure I read the deleted PM, he posted the PM he sent to me.

I sent him one PM (in response to the first one) and I in no way contradicted myself. I'll be more than happy to share that PM if you do not believe me. I stated here in the forums that I sent that PM telling him I had no problem with him but after reading his posts, I now have a problem with him and that I was putting him on ignore.

Some of it is still here and some of it was deleted in the deleted thread but I assure you, I did not contradict myself in any of this. At worst I made the mistake of giving the guy the benefit of being what I would call a sane, and stable person. He proved me wrong.
Timberly,
I may have misread those posts. I can't find the thread in question now, perhaps it was deleted.

I think Jim seemed a very good contributor to many of us here, and for that reason we are sympathetic to him. Though he did seem to become argumentative towards his final days.

I made an assumption which I cannot back. For that and my badly worded / antagonistic post, I apologize.

Hopefully your input has better clarified the issue for other readers as well.

BR,
Colin:)

Timberly
11-23-2006, 05:52 PM
I think Jim seemed a very good contributor to many of us here, and for that reason we are sympathetic to him. Though he did seem to become argumentative towards his final days.
I agree. There were three times that I can think of that I misunderstood him, he clarified himself, and we were fine. Shortly after the 3rd time is when everything had happened between he & Eric. At the time, the only problem I had with him was how ridiculously he handled himself with Randy & Eric. I just didn't read those posts and even defended Jim to other forum members that complained about him.

Most of what was said between Jim & I about the issues we had with each other was in the deleted thread which why you can't find it. I wish it were still there because it would provide a more accurate account of exactly what transpired and would settle your doubts about this issue. (I really, really wish it were still here because I even stated in the midst of everything that when he wasn't arguing, he had valid, informative posts)

In that thread, Jim simply would not stop bringing up the issue with Eric even though Eric had been banned. All I did was ask him in a very polite manner to please drop the subject. Eric had done something wrong and had suffered consequences for that action. There was really nothing else that could be done about the situation. He took a major offense to my asking him to drop the situation.

He then started with the post stalking and after quoting me, said....


You have made those points quite a few times.You might want to consider dropping it.

Simply because I asked him to please drop the Eric issue.

Not realizing that Jim was simply post stalking and making jabs, Ironman replied to him. Here is the response I posted to Ironman...
Ironman, he's simply trying to antagonize me because I politely asked him to drop a subject that already had a resolution. It appears that I am now his next "victim" and he will continue to make posts like this in regards to my posts simply to try to prove something. :rolleyes:

For future reference, when he posts something like this in regards to one of my posts, it's best to simply ignore him. After seeing his post and knowing his inability to drop things and his incessant antagonizing of people to try to drag them into an arguement so he can prove to everyone how right he is and how wrong they are, I'm left with no choice but to put him on ignore. I was trying to refrain from doing so because at times he has good points and valid posts but I'm not going to wade through all of his antagonizing posts just to try to find the valid ones.
I know this doesn't settle your doubts that you had originally posted but this is the best that I can provide since the other thread has been deleted. ;)

(Southpaw, I'm not trying to prove that I'm not a groupie, but I did manage to quote two posts in defense of myself. Hope I made you proud. :D ) ;)

ribdoner
11-23-2006, 07:33 PM
I met "HIM" at a tournement in MEMPHIS over the weekend.

Energetic 60+yr old fellow with a twinkle in his eye and pep in his step. Bright, with a broad range of educational and life experience's. Because of his white hair and beard he could get a gig as SANTA this time of year if he gained about 100 lbs.He's one of the least threatening or physically intimidating people I've met. He's very aware of his desire (shortcoming) to win arguments and be acknowledged as being a superior "debater." Unlike most people I think he enjoy's arguing.

. He loves to WIN--VERBAL ARGUMENTS.

FWIW I wouldn't lose any sleep worrying about him.

ironman
11-24-2006, 07:58 AM
I met "HIM" at a tournement in MEMPHIS over the weekend.

Energetic 60+yr old fellow with a twinkle in his eye and pep in his step. Bright, with a broad range of educational and life experience's. Because of his white hair and beard he could get a gig as SANTA this time of year if he gained about 100 lbs.He's one of the least threatening or physically intimidating people I've met. He's very aware of his desire (shortcoming) to win arguments and be acknowledged as being a superior "debater." Unlike most people I think he enjoy's arguing.

. He loves to WIN--VERBAL ARGUMENTS.

FWIW I wouldn't lose any sleep worrying about him.

Thanks for posting this.