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NoBull9
11-20-2006, 09:18 AM
I spent some time at the Viking Turnament in Duluth,While I was there I herd complaints about the condition of the pool balls mainly the cue balls being damaged.I want name anyone but the complaint was that phenolic tips where damaging the cue balls and causing players to miscue.Has anyone else noticed a problem with the balls and phenolic tips.

RSB-Refugee
11-20-2006, 09:30 AM
I spent some time at the Viking Turnament in Duluth,While I was there I herd complaints about the condition of the pool balls mainly the cue balls being damaged.I want name anyone but the complaint was that phenolic tips where damaging the cue balls and causing players to miscue.Has anyone else noticed a problem with the balls and phenolic tips.
I think it depends on, the quality of the balls. I had a Triangle tip that put small curved cracks in a red circle cue ball. I now have a Pro Cup cue ball, that has been hit many times with phenolic tips, without any visible damage.

Tracy

NoBull9
11-20-2006, 09:38 AM
The cue balls where Aramith measel balls.

inthezone
11-20-2006, 09:47 AM
The cue balls where Aramith measel balls.
I bought a "measel" ball about two years ago that quickly cracked badly - I know not how. I think there were some poor quality "knock-offs" out there for a while being sold as Aramith.

Black-Balled
11-20-2006, 10:00 AM
I have Aramith Super-pros that have been used for about a year and I use a phenolic tip. The CB has some HARD discoloration in the form of marks, but no structural chance.

Bushwhacker does not let 'em in his pool room (that should be on the flyer!).

RSB-Refugee
11-20-2006, 10:14 AM
Bushwhacker does not let 'em in his pool room...
Where is his pool room?

Tracy

Black-Balled
11-20-2006, 11:27 AM
Where is his pool room?
Tracy
It is in Indiana.
















PA!
Real nice room.

xidica
11-20-2006, 11:31 AM
I've got an Aramith TV Ball and it's been through some real hell. No problems here. :cool:

Cheez Dawg
11-20-2006, 12:43 PM
I've had a measles cue ball for about a year and a half, and it's full of cracks. It has NEVER hit anything other than another ball. I'm not sure what happened here.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/choltz/ball1.jpg


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/choltz/ball2.jpg


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/choltz/ball3.jpg

chiefseabee
11-20-2006, 12:51 PM
My measle is doing the same thing but my centennial q-ball has no marks on it.

anyone want to buy a set of level best? pure junk, literally falling apart.

imho centennials are worth the price.

AL

Black-Balled
11-20-2006, 01:57 PM
I've had a measles cue ball for about a year and a half, and it's full of cracks. It has NEVER hit anything other than another ball. I'm not sure what happened here.

First off- If you aren't knockin balls off the table, you aren't doing it the fun way;)

What% of practice is hard-breaking games and what kind of tip is on your break cue?

Cheez Dawg
11-20-2006, 04:22 PM
First off- If you aren't knockin balls off the table, you aren't doing it the fun way;)

What% of practice is hard-breaking games and what kind of tip is on your break cue?


I now use a Predator BK2, but I was using a regular BK, with the regular layered tip that comes on them.
I first noticed the cracks about 2 months after I started using the ball.
I'd say about 40% of my practice is hard breaking games. That's the only way I break-HARD.
Maybe I got a dud. I can't see my break being hard enough to do that.

I rack balls
11-20-2006, 04:29 PM
I have a pretty gigantuarous break and my spotted ball has a lot of those round cracks in it. I use a stinger.

Eric.A.

longhair
11-20-2006, 08:11 PM
A friend of mine uses a jump cue with a G-10 tip/ferrule. I think it's harder than the cueball and does damage it.

fidget
11-20-2006, 08:21 PM
I have Aramith Super-pros that have been used for about a year and I use a phenolic tip. The CB has some HARD discoloration in the form of marks, but no structural chance.

Bushwhacker does not let 'em in his pool room (that should be on the flyer!).

I will put it on the new flyer for the next tournament.

=)

Thank you for the compliment on our room.

ukpooladdict
11-21-2006, 10:23 AM
My original measle ball that came with my set (super-pro set) has alot of cracks in it and i use a sledgehammer,i have bought replacements balls seperatlely and these also have cracks in them too...not that it affects the way the cb plays.

X Breaker
11-21-2006, 03:26 PM
I was told that it is because the finish used on these new balls is not strong enough.

I am not 100% because I am not expert in balls.

What I was told was that there is a layer of finish being used on the balls to protect it and to make it more glossy. This finish is much more brittle and is also weaker than the material of the ball itelf, that is why a lot of these balls have tiny cracks even when a player is only breaking the balls with a leather tip.

Thank you.

Richard

Tommy-D
11-21-2006, 04:01 PM
> I really have no idea if the phenolic damages the balls,but it seems like it would leave some kind of scratch. The pics of the cue ball that Cheez Dawg posted with the marks in it are very familiar to me. In the dive that calls itself a pool room here,and several others,those marks are almost always caused by a high-speed collision with a protruding screw,nail,or tack used inside the pockets themselves. In pool rooms with nice fresh Gold Crowns or Diamonds,I've personally never seen marks on the balls in that pattern. One thing you can do is get a 3-sided nail buffer from your girlfriend/wife/Wal-Mart,and use the middle grade on the mark,trying to follow the length of the mark itself the best you can,and see if it disappears or at least erases any coloring in the mark. It doesn't seem possible for a tip to make these marks unless it had an extremely sharp edge,was totally flat,or was made from tool steel. Tommy D.

xidica
11-22-2006, 12:14 AM
Very good point and post....Thank you sir!

Black-Balled
11-22-2006, 06:52 AM
...I am not 100% because I am not expert in balls.

..Thank you.

Richard

No, thank you, or;
That's not what I heard, or;
I think you will be soon, or;

Oh God, I have to stop...

:o

xidica
11-22-2006, 07:08 AM
No, thank you, or;
That's not what I heard, or;
I think you will be soon, or;

Oh God, I have to stop...

:o

LOL! Someone had to grab that wide open beauty :D

inthezone
11-22-2006, 07:30 AM
Excessive throw seen in billiard halls
is the result of playing with dirty balls

MikeJanis
11-25-2006, 02:05 AM
Has anyone performed a test on break cues, tips and damage to balls ?

I'm curious and might do an independant study myself unless there is one already out there. Anyone know for sure ?

I took a careful look at the Viking Tour balls which are provided to us by Aramith. I know they are not fakes because they are shipped to me directly from Aramith. After inspection I found that almost all of them had the small circular cracks in their finish like the ones in the pics provided by Cheez Dawg below. I would like to know for sure what causes this.

In the next few weeks I am going to compare different CB's and different Break Cues. Tips, etc.. along with testing the balls hitting each other to try an determine what the cause may be.

It's probably going to be quite costly so again if anyone has any data from previous tests please contact me. At a minimum I would like to compare test results.

In the meantime, would any break cue makers be willing to send me one of your cues to use in the test ?

To verify my results I will present a comprehensive report along with a video verifying the results.

I would like to test many different styles (tips, cues, CB's).

Additionall, I will contact Aramith directly to see if they have any insight.


Who's in ?

Mj



I've had a measles cue ball for about a year and a half, and it's full of cracks. It has NEVER hit anything other than another ball. I'm not sure what happened here.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/choltz/ball1.jpg


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/choltz/ball2.jpg


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/choltz/ball3.jpg

manwon
11-25-2006, 02:57 AM
I spent some time at the Viking Turnament in Duluth,While I was there I herd complaints about the condition of the pool balls mainly the cue balls being damaged.I want name anyone but the complaint was that phenolic tips where damaging the cue balls and causing players to miscue.Has anyone else noticed a problem with the balls and phenolic tips.

Hey Guys, I have read this entire thread, and I have not heard anyone ask or bring up that the balls are also made from Phenolic. Most Phenolic tips are made from linen or Canvas Phenolic.

Which means that linen or a canvas material is added to the Phenolic Resin to give the material a greater flexibility and overall strength.

The Phenolic material used in balls is solid Phenolic Resin that is much harder than the tips / ferrules used today.

Many times balls will crack for a unseen reason, while substandard materials can be the cause, many times it is due to a lazy table mechanic who did not insure that the Tack's, Nails, or Screws that are used to secure the pockets are properly recessed.

If you are having these problems I would suggest that you feel around the inside of the pockets to see if there is anything sharp sticking out that a ball could hit.

Just some observations, I have seen both problems occur over the year's, however forget about the tips being the problem, this is not possible due to the materials used.

I hope this helps, and have a great night!!

Manwon

inthezone
11-25-2006, 07:00 AM
I took a careful look at the Viking Tour balls which are provided to us by Aramith. I know they are not fakes because they are shipped to me directly from Aramith. After inspection I found that almost all of them had the small circular cracks in their finish like the ones in the pics provided by Cheez Dawg below. I would like to know for sure what causes this.Mj

Mike - have you checked the 1-balls? If the 1-balls are fine I am thinking that would point to the impact from the cue tip causing these "compression fractures".

I have some of those red and white practice balls that I use exclusively for break technique practice (with a speed meter) - I have only hit them into a bean bag and they are covered with those little cracks.

-steve

cueman
11-25-2006, 09:11 AM
Has anyone performed a test on break cues, tips and damage to balls ?

I'm curious and might do an independant study myself unless there is one already out there. Anyone know for sure ?

I took a careful look at the Viking Tour balls which are provided to us by Aramith. I know they are not fakes because they are shipped to me directly from Aramith. After inspection I found that almost all of them had the small circular cracks in their finish like the ones in the pics provided by Cheez Dawg below. I would like to know for sure what causes this.

In the next few weeks I am going to compare different CB's and different Break Cues. Tips, etc.. along with testing the balls hitting each other to try an determine what the cause may be.

It's probably going to be quite costly so again if anyone has any data from previous tests please contact me. At a minimum I would like to compare test results.

In the meantime, would any break cue makers be willing to send me one of your cues to use in the test ?

To verify my results I will present a comprehensive report along with a video verifying the results.

I would like to test many different styles (tips, cues, CB's).

Additionall, I will contact Aramith directly to see if they have any insight.


Who's in ?

Mj
Mike,
A few years ago when the red circle was the cue ball in almost all events. I put a phenolic tip on and broke with it. It put little yellow scratch marks all over the cue ball. So my conclusion is yes phenolic tips damage the smooth surface on cue balls. At least they do on the yellowish red circle cue balls that were popular a few years ago.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

xidica
11-25-2006, 09:15 AM
Doesn't affect playability (unless those cracks mess with you, and if the red dots don't mess with you, they shouldn't either). It's just the finish.

bigpocket
11-27-2006, 11:15 PM
I asked Larry Nevel why he don't use phenolic tips on his break cue?? He said it's because he breaks cue balls with them . He told me that he broke 3 or 4 cue ball's in a single tounament. No BS. LOL he does have a weak break lol.:) :rolleyes:

TATE
11-28-2006, 04:41 AM
Hey Guys, I have read this entire thread, and I have not heard anyone ask or bring up that the balls are also made from Phenolic. Most Phenolic tips are made from linen or Canvas Phenolic.

Which means that linen or a canvas material is added to the Phenolic Resin to give the material a greater flexibility and overall strength.

The Phenolic material used in balls is solid Phenolic Resin that is much harder than the tips / ferrules used today.

Many times balls will crack for a unseen reason, while substandard materials can be the cause, many times it is due to a lazy table mechanic who did not insure that the Tack's, Nails, or Screws that are used to secure the pockets are properly recessed.

If you are having these problems I would suggest that you feel around the inside of the pockets to see if there is anything sharp sticking out that a ball could hit.

Just some observations, I have seen both problems occur over the year's, however forget about the tips being the problem, this is not possible due to the materials used.

I hope this helps, and have a great night!!

Manwon


I agree with you there. In have an Aramith super pro ball (with the red aramith logo) 4 years old and practice my breaks with several differenet phenolic tipped cues - no damage at all to the ball except for usual nicks.

I also don't believe that a hard tip would cause the damage we're seeing. I suspect it is the balls impacting each other causing this damage - maybe the phenolic allows for a little more speed on the break and the extra speed is stressing the balls on impact. Could also be that whatever process Aramith used to make the "measles" ball was different and resulted in a surface that cracked.

Chris